Podcast Summary: The Political Scene | The New Yorker

Episode: Trump Asks, “How Did We End Up Here?” We Suggest: “Follow the Money”
Date: August 23, 2018
Host: Dorothy Wickenden
Guest: Adam Davidson (The New Yorker staff writer)

Overview

This episode dives into the legal troubles besieging Trump’s inner circle, specifically the convictions and plea deals of Paul Manafort and Michael Cohen. The discussion focuses on how these events pull Trump’s business practices into the investigation spotlight, undermining the “red line” he tried to set between the Russia probe and his personal finances. The episode, rich in insight and reporting, suggests the most consequential revelations may be ahead as investigators “follow the money.”

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Major Legal Developments (01:16)

• Paul Manafort, former Trump campaign chairman, found guilty of eight counts of tax and bank fraud.
• Michael Cohen, Trump’s former attorney, enters a plea deal implicating Trump in campaign finance violations.
• Cohen’s lawyer, Lanny Davis, suggests Cohen is willing to share information with the Mueller investigation “not just about... a conspiracy to collude and corrupt the American democracy system... but also knowledge about the computer crime of hacking and whether or not Mr. Trump knew ahead of time about that crime and even cheered it on.” (C, 02:07)

2. The Fallacy of Trump’s "Red Line" (03:20)

• Trump’s attempt to cordon off business investigations from the Russia probe is dismissed by Davidson as “nonsense.”
• Davidson asserts there’s “no reason why any activity by anybody would be off limits to investigation,” highlighting how business practices and campaign activities were interwoven.
• “There is no red line. And now all of Trump's activity is not only fair game for investigators, it's an absolute necessity for Mueller and others…” (D, 04:11)

3. Weisselberg: The Key Figure (06:08)

• Allen Weisselberg, Trump Organization CFO, is identified as the ultimate insider with knowledge of all financial dealings.
• Davidson predicts: “Allen Weisselberg, who has obsessively maintained his privacy, is about to become one of the most famous people in the history of the country.” (D, 07:41)
• Weisselberg’s testimony in a New York Attorney General suit against the Trump Foundation is seen as especially damning, as he appears to implicate Trump directly rather than protect him.
• Allegations are raised that the Trump Foundation was “just a scam, a way for Trump to avoid paying taxes and to funnel money from cronies…” (D, 09:52)

4. The Practice of Flipping and Trump’s Fear (09:26)

• Trump’s Fox News comment that flipping “should almost be illegal” hints at his apprehension regarding insider cooperation with law enforcement.
• Davidson suggests Weisselberg “has already, to some degree, flipped” by cooperating in legal depositions. (D, 09:39)

5. Trump Organization’s Ties to Russia (12:44)

• The Trump Organization made much of its money in recent years from Russians and other former Soviet sources.
• “...A New York real estate celebrity whose business is essentially dead in America and who becomes a vehicle for all sorts of activity from the former Soviet Union...” (D, 13:05)
• Oligarchs and Russian banks were among the few willing to finance Trump’s projects—many with signs of money laundering and financial fraud.

6. The Company Trump Keeps: Manafort & Others (13:55)

• Rather than “the best people,” Trump surrounds himself with those linked to suspect business/political practices: Manafort, Cohen, Flynn, Papadopoulos, Gates.
• Manafort specifically helped foreign oligarchs launder and shield wealth: “They were actually going to the countries and helping the oligarchs... disguise their illegal activity, et cetera.” (D, 15:51)

7. Unanswered Questions: The "Buckets" of Scandal (15:51)

• Davidson categorizes the revelations into “known knowns, known unknowns, and unknown unknowns.”
  • Known: “a pattern and practice of business that is, at best, unbelievably unethical against the interests of the United States”
  • Unknown: Whether Trump’s organization crossed the line into running systems for money laundering or even criminal enterprise
• “Is it possible? It's far, far, far dirtier than we realize.” (D, 17:10)

8. The Republican Party’s Dilemma (18:29)

• GOP leadership is largely silent, but cracks may appear as more evidence comes out and Trump’s popularity weakens.
• As more specific crimes are tied to Trump (“three more of those or eight more of those instances”), Davidson predicts it will become “increasingly hard for the GOP to hold their nose.” (D, 19:12)

9. The Power of Democratic Investigations (21:02)

• Should Democrats seize the House, they’d gain subpoena power and open up new investigations into Trump’s finances, potentially leading to public revelations such as his tax returns.

Notable Quotes

• Adam Davidson: “There is no red line. And now all of Trump's activity is not only fair game for investigators, it's an absolute necessity for Mueller and others to look into...” (04:11)
• Adam Davidson: “Allen Weisselberg knows everything, but he'll never talk to you... if he cracks and there is evidence that he's cracking, we really will know pretty much the full picture of how Donald Trump made money.” (07:41)
• Adam Davidson (on Manafort): “[They] weren't just passive recipients of this money. They were actually going to the countries and helping the oligarchs... To disguise their illegal activity, etc. And I say Manafort far more than Trump.” (15:51)
• Adam Davidson: “Follow the money. And remember, everything we know today is in the most hostile to knowing anything conditions imaginable.” (21:02)
• Adam Davidson: “Is it possible? It's far, far, far dirtier than we realize.” (17:10)

Timestamps for Key Segments

• 01:16 – Overview of Manafort and Cohen convictions/plea deals
• 02:07 – Lanny Davis on Michael Cohen’s knowledge relevant to Mueller
• 03:20 – 05:10 – Davidson on the false “red line” between business and campaign
• 07:18 – 09:26 – Deep dive: Allen Weisselberg’s knowledge and potential impact
• 13:05 – 13:55 – Trump Organization’s reliance on Russian/Soviet money
• 15:51 – 18:29 – Manafort’s operations, the “three buckets” of scandal
• 19:12 – Speculating GOP reaction to mounting scandal
• 21:02 – What Democratic control could mean for investigations

Conclusion

The episode persuasively argues that Trump’s attempts to isolate his business from scrutiny are unraveling. The legal fate of Cohen and Manafort opens the door to a fuller inquiry into Trump’s finances—especially with Allen Weisselberg now in the spotlight. The core insight: To answer “How did we end up here?”—just follow the money. As investigations deepen and new actors (like Weisselberg) come to the fore, the boundaries between Trump’s business, campaign, and foreign influence continue to blur, threatening major political and legal upheaval.