The Political Scene | The New Yorker

Episode: Trump Talk

Date: September 2, 2016
Host: Dorothy Wickenden (Executive Editor, The New Yorker)
Guest: Evan Osnos (Staff Writer, The New Yorker)

Episode Overview

This episode focuses on the stark contrast between Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump's approaches to the presidency, particularly as articulated in their competing speeches that week. Host Dorothy Wickenden and guest Evan Osnos delve into the candidates' differing visions for America, their rhetorical strategies, the origins and impact of Trump's unique political culture, and the significance of these differences as the 2016 presidential debates approach.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Contrasting Visions: Clinton vs. Trump

• Clinton's Speech:

  • Spoke at the American Legion's national convention.
  • Emphasized American exceptionalism, referencing Lincoln, Reagan, and Robert F. Kennedy.
  • Framed the U.S. as a beacon of hope and compassion.

    “If there's one core belief that has guided and inspired me every step of the way, it is the United States is an exceptional nation. I believe we are still Lincoln's last, best hope of Earth.” — [01:31] (Hillary Clinton, via Wickenden)

• Trump's Speech:

  • Delivered after returning from meeting the Mexican president, in Phoenix, Arizona.
  • Hardline stance on immigration; no intent to soften message.
  • Pivots to "protecting ourselves" in a dangerous world.

    “These next four years, I will be uncompromising in the defense of the United States...We will change our immigration screening procedures to help keep terrorists and extremists out of our country.” — [02:19] (Donald Trump)

• Analysis:

  • Osnos highlights the almost "non-overlapping universes" of the two approaches.
  • Clinton underscores collective values and self-sacrifice; Trump focuses on survival and self-preservation.

    “What Trump is saying is the that idea [exceptionalism] is obsolete. We're not exceptional. In fact, we are a survivor in a kind of anarchic world. And it is up to us to do everything we can to protect ourselves.” — [04:42] (Osnos)

2. The Enduring Power of Trump’s Support

• Impact of Controversies:

  • Discussion of the Khans’ speech at the Democratic convention and Trump’s critical response.
  • Despite controversies, core Trump supporters are unwavering.

• Voter Voices:

  • Fred Rice (Army veteran, NH state rep): Not offended by Trump’s comments about the Gold Star family; loyalty has only deepened.
  • Nancy Mertz: Undecided in 2015, now fully committed to Trump due to political “awakening.”

    “There was a kind of fury in his sentiment, frankly, that really startled me...I am even more devoted to Donald Trump today than I was a year ago.” — [06:28] (Osnos, on Fred Rice) “I have gone through, in her words, a kind of political awakening over the last year. And I am now completely dedicated to Donald Trump...when this is over, I will vote for Trump and then I will register as an independent.” — [07:03] (Osnos, on Nancy Mertz)

• Emergence of a New Political Subculture:

  • Trump’s movement not strictly Republican or Democratic, but a new political force.

    “You got out of this is this really kind of remarkable demonstration of the birth of a new political subculture...It is the phenomenon that's been created by Trump. And I think we're going to be dealing with those consequences for a long time.” — [07:33] (Osnos)

3. Competing Narratives: “America is Already Great” vs. “Make America Great Again”

• Clinton’s Response:

  • Her positive, patriotic vision seems defensive amid Trump’s dystopian rhetoric.

• Voter Mood:

  • Wickenden asks if Americans still feel hopeful or shift toward Trump’s bleak portrayal of a nation in decline.
  • Osnos: The election is a choice between aspiration and frustration.

    “In the end, it comes down to a choice between whether people vote based on their frustrations or based on their aspiration, because these two ideas coexist...from the very beginning, what Trump figured out was that he could talk explicitly about a part of American politics that was kind of awkward and uncomfortable to discuss.” — [08:30] (Osnos)

4. Trump’s Communication Style and Its Impact

• The Appeal of Authenticity:

  • Trump’s simple, repetitive language and off-the-cuff attacks resonate with supporters; not “politician-speak.”

    “One of the many striking things about this campaign is how effective...it's basically grade school vocabulary. It's really limited. He uses the same phrases over and over again. He makes these really ugly off the cuff attacks, but he doesn't speak like a traditional politician. And that clearly is having some effect.” — [10:40] (Wickenden)

• Trump in Debates:

  • Osnos and Wickenden discuss whether Clinton’s experience will trump (pun intended) Trump’s unpredictability.

    “You would naturally assume...she's going to mop the floor with him, right? Well, there are 16 Republican Wraiths wandering the halls of Washington who will tell you about why Donald Trump should not be underestimated.” — [11:33] (Osnos)

• Marketing Genius:

  • Trump flips expectation, uses “attitude” answers, and targets vulnerable topics for maximum response.

    “Newt Gingrich, who is, after all, a Donald Trump adviser, says of Trump very admiringly that Donald Trump speaks at a fourth grade level because he says he is a genius at marketing.” — [12:10] (Osnos)

5. Politics & Language: Orwellian Parallels

• Manipulation & Redefinition:

  • Both reflect on George Orwell’s “Politics and the English Language.”
  • Trump transforms outrageousness into political currency, co-opting words and their meanings.

    “Political language is designed to make lies sound truthful and to give solidity to pure wind. That is exactly what Trump is doing here.” — [12:50] (Wickenden, quoting Orwell) “What Trump has done, he's blown up these cliches and these euphemisms and has just said, I'm going to completely relocate what words mean from their definitions.” — [13:50] (Osnos)

• Global Consequences:

  • Trump’s claim that “Obama founded ISIS” seen as theater for American audiences, but has global repercussions (e.g., cited by Hezbollah).

    “Here you have an American politician who is speaking one kind of language that actually makes a certain sort of sense to his supporters...when you actually bring it back into the real world of fact and information, it has a really strange effect. It's a kind of a theater of the absurd at a certain point.” — [15:11] (Osnos)

• Clinton as Symbol:

  • For many, Clinton comes to embody the entire existing political system; Trump attacks the culture itself.

6. Looking Ahead to the Debates

• Parallel Realities:

  • Both candidates operate in almost completely separate universes of facts; this will play out dramatically in the debates.

    “You're going to have two candidates going onto the stage inhabiting completely separate, almost non overlapping universes of facts...You put those two on a stage and it's going to force people to see that these are two different sports that are being played.” — [17:01] (Osnos)

• Moderator's Role:

  • The effectiveness of the debates may hinge on moderators controlling Trump’s tendency for digression and demanding policy substance.

7. Nostalgia & Loss: Reagan's “Shining City on a Hill”

• Contrast with Trump’s Vision:
  • Wickenden plays Reagan’s famous speech to highlight how far current politics have shifted.

    “In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God blessed and teeming with people of all kinds, living in harmony and peace. A city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors, and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it and see it still.” — [19:19] (Ronald Reagan, via Wickenden)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Evan Osnos on Trump’s Rhetorical Impact:

  "He is hoisting them up and saying, I am giving these a new definition because political language has lost the respect of the public." — [14:09]

• Dorothy Wickenden on Voter Bubbles:

  "You can go through your entire daily experience, the news you watch, the friends you interact with on social media, the conversations you have in your workplace, and you will be almost entirely unruffled by the introduction of information that you don't agree with." — [17:15]

Important Segment Timestamps

• [01:16] – Episode introduction and recap of Clinton and Trump speeches
• [02:19] – Trump’s Phoenix speech on immigration
• [03:35] – Discussion of the candidates' divergent outlooks
• [05:20] – The Khan family, Trump supporters, and roots of Trump’s subculture
• [07:57] – Clinton’s narrative vs. Trump’s narrative and their resonance
• [10:40] – Impact of Trump’s “authenticity” and rhetorical style
• [12:37] – Politics and language, Orwellian analysis
• [14:45] – Trump’s language and global ripple effects
• [16:42] – Anticipation of the debates and the echo chamber effect
• [19:19] – Reagan’s “city on a hill” speech as a contrast point

Summary

This episode dissects how the 2016 presidential race had become a battle between two incompatible visions—and languages—for America: one rooted in values of inclusivity and historic optimism, the other in protectionism and grievance. With Trump’s ability to manipulate language and emotion and Clinton’s struggle to simplify her message into an easily digestible narrative, hosts Wickenden and Osnos forecast not only high-stakes debates, but a lasting reshaping of American political culture. Both agree: the country stands at a rhetorical and ideological crossroads, one that will define its character for years to come.