Podcast Summary: Trump’s Indictment, and a Brief History of Election Dirty Tricks

The Political Scene | The New Yorker

Date: April 1, 2023
Host: Jane Mayer
Panelists: Susan Glasser, Evan Osnos

Episode Overview

This episode delves into the historic indictment of former President Donald Trump, exploring its legal and political implications. The panel also traces the history of "election dirty tricks" in American presidential campaigns, focusing on scandals that involved the manipulation of national security for political advantage. The discussion situates Trump's legal troubles within a broader pattern, referencing the Nixon and Reagan eras, as well as more recent examples. Notable is their analysis of new revelations about Ronald Reagan’s alleged interference with the Iran hostage crisis and Richard Nixon’s sabotage of Vietnam peace talks, capped by reflections on Donald Trump’s own political tactics.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Trump’s Indictment: Legal and Historical Significance

• Historical Firsts and the Stacking of Precedents

  • The panel reflects on the unprecedented nature of a presidential indictment (01:16).
  • Susan Glasser (01:43): “Donald Trump always wanted to be one for the history books... first twice impeached president, first president to refuse... to concede... And now first president indicted. Amazing.”

• Loss of Power and Accountability

  • Jane Mayer (02:01): Observes the irony in Trump, a man who "revels in being in power," now facing the humbling force of legal constraint.

• Direct Legal Ramifications—Michael Cohen’s Case

  • Susan Glasser (03:23): Emphasizes that Trump’s alleged crime is not theoretical—Michael Cohen “literally went to jail for this.”
  • The difference between federal and state prosecution is noted, highlighting procedural and political complexities (04:13).

• Principles of Rule of Law

  • Evan Osnos (04:48): Counters right-wing claims of a “banana republic,” asserting that impunity—not prosecution—is the sign of dysfunction.
    • Quote: “If you want to know really what makes a banana republic, it's not going and prosecuting a former president. It's allowing certain people to live above the law.” (04:48)

• Historic Reluctance and Consequence

  • US tradition avoided prosecuting ex-presidents to preserve national unity—highlighted by Ford’s Nixon pardon and Clinton’s perjury deal (06:11).
  • Revisionist historians now argue Nixon’s pardon fostered impunity (07:02).

• Challenges of Presidential Prosecution

  • Concerns about broadening political retaliation, with local prosecutors targeting ex-presidents, are discussed alongside the necessity for accountability (04:45-08:28).
  • Fears about political fallout post-January 6th are raised (08:28).

• Republican Response and Political Theater

  • Susan Glasser (09:18): Describes the “stampede” of Republicans defending Trump, seeing echoes of pre-January 6 rhetoric and loyalty over legality.

• Impact on 2024 Republican Race

  • Evan Osnos (11:19): Questions how rivals can run against Trump while also defending him—a “bizarre contortion.”
  • Susan Glasser (11:35): Explains how Trump’s dominance forces others into minor supporting roles in his narrative.

2. Election Dirty Tricks: Historical Cases & New Revelations

• Election Interference as “Blood Sport”
  • Jane Mayer (14:59): Links current events to a longer tradition: “presidential elections are often blood sports... but one type of campaign dirty trick casts an especially dark shadow”––when national security policy is hijacked for political gain.

a. 1980 “October Surprise” – Reagan and the Iran Hostage Crisis

• Background and Stakes

  • Evan Osnos (16:43): Recounts the hostages in Iran shaping Carter’s presidency and Reagan’s landslide win.

• New Evidence from Ben Barnes

  • Susan Glasser (19:25): Summarizes the bombshell NYT story (by Peter Baker)—Ben Barnes describes a 1980 Middle East trip with John Connally, actively signaling to Iranians to delay hostage release for Reagan’s benefit. While circumstantial, details fit historical records.

• Importance of Firsthand Account

  • Jane Mayer (23:08): Stresses the significance of Barnes’ on-the-record, in-the-room testimony, making this far more credible than previous rumors.

• Impact on Carter’s Defeat

  • Evan Osnos (24:12): Notes Carter himself became convinced this “October Surprise” affected the outcome, though the race was already tough.

• Link to Iran-Contra

  • The new evidence re-frames understanding of the Iran-Contra scandal’s origins, showing precedent for secret deals with Iran and arms sales (28:08).

• Re-examining Skepticism

  • Jane Mayer (29:52): Admits rethinking her past skepticism about conspiracy theories, citing the mounting pattern.

b. 1968 “Anna Chennault Affair” – Nixon and Vietnam Peace Talks

• Summary of the Affair

  • Evan Osnos (33:39): Details how Anna Chennault, Republican activist, convinced South Vietnam to delay peace talks to favor Nixon; hard evidence surfaced over decades.

• Direct Quotes from Evidence

  • Evan Osnos (35:30): “Keep Anna Chenault working on South Vietnam and also ‘any other way to monkey wrench it.’” (Nixon’s instructions, via Haldeman notes)

• Lyndon Johnson’s Reaction

  • Johnson recognized and lamented the cynicism and potential for national scandal (“it would rock the nation”) (35:46-35:55).

• Importance for Legacy and Precedent

  • Susan Glasser (36:02): “Richard Nixon was famous for dirty tricks at the end of his presidency, but the truth is that his presidency started, started with a dirty trick, and this was the original dirty trick.”

c. Modern Parallels – Donald Trump

• Stormy Daniels Hush Money

  • Tied to attempts to suppress damaging information pre-election (14:59, 39:05).

• “Perfect Phone Call” with Zelenskyy

  • Panel parallels previous dirty tricks to Trump’s 2019 extortion of Ukraine for political benefit.
  • Susan Glasser (40:48): “This was the phone call of a mobster... poor Zelensky there squirming while Trump is saying, do us a favor... it’s extortion, pure and simple.”

• Impeachment and Political Fatigue

  • Despite exposure, Trump survived politically; public fatigue and normalization of scandal played a role (42:16).

3. Are “Dirty Tricks” Uniquely Republican?

• Panel’s View: No, But...

  • Examples of Democratic wrongdoing (Edwards, Clinton) exist, but recent, high-profile national security manipulations have been GOP-led.
  • Susan Glasser (43:42): “Scandal knows no party... but these three examples... are truly extraordinary.”

• Structural Tribalism and Modern Media

  • Growth of hyper-partisan outlets like Fox News, originally conceived to defend against Nixon-style scandals (46:13).

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Trump’s Indictment:

  • Jane Mayer (02:01): “You’re gonna have to use the word in every history book... hush money and porn star.”
  • Evan Osnos (04:48): “[A] banana republic... is allowing certain people to live above the law.”

• On Historic Precedents:

  • Jane Mayer (07:02): “By having let Nixon off the hook, it sent a message of impunity for presidents...”
  • Evan Osnos (07:49): Citing Judge Jed Rakoff: “The only way... to bend the curve of deterring white collar crime is by actively and publicly seeking accountability for high profile wrongdoers.”

• On Political Character:

  • Jane Mayer (37:44): “If [candidates are] playing dirty, cynical games in their campaigns... you’ve learned something about their character and it’s going to be prologue to what kind of presidency they’re going to have.”

• On Truth and Time:

  • Jane Mayer (31:51): “History takes time,” reflecting on how key facts can take decades to surface.

Key Timestamps

• [01:16] – Opening reactions to Trump’s indictment
• [04:48] – Evan Osnos on rule of law vs. “banana republic” claims
• [06:11] – US tradition of avoiding prosecuting ex-presidents; Ford, Clinton
• [14:59] – Transition to historic election dirty tricks
• [16:43] – 1980 Iran Hostage Crisis recapped
• [19:25] – New NYT revelations on Reagan campaign’s alleged sabotage
• [23:08] – Weight of Ben Barnes’s eyewitness testimony
• [28:08] – Iran-Contra re-examined in light of new evidence
• [33:39] – Anna Chennault affair explained
• [40:48] – Trump’s “perfect phone call” with Zelenskyy deconstructed
• [43:42] – Are Democrats equally guilty? Structural tribalism discussed
• [46:13] – Roger Ailes and the rise of Fox News

Tone & Language

The panelists combine analytical rigor with dry wit, expressing astonishment without hyperbole. Their tone is contemplative, sometimes skeptical, yet always committed to documentary truth and contextual understanding.

Conclusion

The episode offers a sweeping survey of the legal, historical, and ethical consequences of high-level political scandal and election manipulation in America. Trump’s indictment is treated as both a watershed and a continuation in a lineage of “dirty tricks,” with the panel urging a longer-term, truthful reckoning with the past. The discussion closes with a hope that the truth comes out before another generation passes.

Jane Mayer (49:05): “Well, let's just hope that it doesn't take 43 years for the truth to come out.”