The Political Scene | The New Yorker

Episode: Why Is Trump Targeting Venezuela?

Date: December 3, 2025
Host: Tyler Foggatt
Guest: Jon Lee Anderson (New Yorker staff writer, Latin America expert)

Overview

This episode delves into the Trump administration’s escalating military actions targeting Venezuela, with a special focus on recent lethal boat strikes in the Caribbean. Tyler Foggatt interviews Jon Lee Anderson about the legality, motivations, and consequences of these actions. The conversation explores whether this is a new drug war, a political pressure campaign, or a return to gunboat diplomacy—and what the administration is truly trying to achieve.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Logic Behind Trump’s Venezuela Policy (00:10–02:45)

• Performative Gunboat Diplomacy:
  Jon Lee Anderson argues Trump's policy is less about drugs and more about political theater and exerting dominance.

  “This is black ops at its most baroque… It’s all about creating a drama, creating suspense. In that sense, it’s great theater.”
  — Jon Lee Anderson, (01:27)

• Rhetoric vs. Action:
  Despite dramatic statements and a $50 million bounty on Maduro, actual action is limited to “horrific, gruesome killings of men on boats in the Caribbean”—most of whom are likely low-level hired hands rather than cartel capos.

2. The Boat Strikes – Timeline, Legality, and Secrecy (03:53–08:33)

• Strikes Since Early September:
  15–16 attacks on alleged “narco-terrorist” boats, but with little independent verification.

  “We don’t even know...most of them are these open boats with outboards like you might see anywhere. 20, 30 foot long boats… 83 people, I think, have been killed, they say. We don’t know for sure.”
  — Jon Lee Anderson (04:45–06:20)

• Lack of Transparency:
  No real proof the boats are carrying drugs; questionable intelligence and legality.

• Extrajudicial Killings:
  Anderson calls these strikes “extrajudicial” and “illegal,” noting the US does not kill drug mules on its own soil.

  “This is clearly illegal behavior. We don’t execute drug mules… We don’t shoot them at the side of the road, which is effectively what we are now doing in the high seas.”
  — Jon Lee Anderson (08:57)

3. Political Motives—Targeting Venezuela as “Low Hanging Fruit” (08:33–13:13)

• Strategic Escalation:
  Trump is seen as using Venezuela as a potential conduit for further action against Cuba.

• Florida Politics:
  Influence of Cuban-Americans, especially Marco Rubio, on aggressive policy.

• Economic Motives:
  Venezuela’s vast oil reserves are “a kind of main incentive.”

  “There’s money to be made, you know, and so I think there’s that as a kind of main incentive.”
  — Jon Lee Anderson (10:15)

• Trump’s Hemisphere Dominance:
  A desire to act as “boss man in this hemisphere.”

4. The September 2nd Strike & Congressional Fallout (13:13–17:20)

• Alleged War Crime:
  Reports that Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth ordered that all survivors of a boat strike be killed:

  “He wanted no survivors and a second strike came and did kill them… The last time I think any of us heard about an equivalent kind of behavior, you have to go back almost to World War II…”
  — Jon Lee Anderson (13:50)

• Military Resignation:
  Senior US commanders (e.g., SOUTHCOM’s leader) have resigned, sparking speculation that they want no part in illegal actions.

• Bipartisan Discomfort:
  Even Republicans question the legality and morality of the escalations.

5. The “War on Narco-Terrorism” – Policy Efficacy and Hypocrisy (18:23–26:15)

• Trump’s Drug War as Political Cover:
  The administration justifies actions through narratives about fentanyl and cartel violence, yet attacks target low-level operatives, not actual cartel leaders.

• DEA’s “Dirty” Tactics:
  The Drug Enforcement Administration often acts with little oversight, partnering with local criminals to take down others.

• Ineffectiveness of Drug War:
  Historic US anti-drug efforts (Plan Colombia, etc.) have failed to curb drug production or trafficking.

  "Bullying tactics… may work in the short term, but it’s not going to work in the long term. And it’s going to create a lot more enemies than friends."
  — Jon Lee Anderson (20:30)

6. Trump’s Double Standard: Pardon of Juan Orlando Hernández (25:24–28:40)

• Hernández’s Background:
  Ex-Honduran president, convicted of drug trafficking and previously described as boasting about shipping drugs to the US.

• Trump’s Pardon:
  Despite his “crusade” against drug crime, Trump freed Hernández, allegedly after lobbying from Roger Stone and others.

  "Maybe it has the same logic as Trump... freeing [January 6] rioters and going after the prosecutors who went after them… It’s kind of deterministic historical revisionism happening before our eyes, but in a very cartoonish way."
  — Jon Lee Anderson (28:40)

7. Endgame: Overthrowing Maduro? (30:30–36:12)

• Escalation Scenarios:
  The US presence and hints at airstrikes or land operations serve as psychological warfare—to pressure Maduro to step down or flee.

• Option 1: Maduro leaves under threat, new (US-friendly) leader installed.

• Option 2: Actual strikes on land targets to further ratchet up pressure.

• Option 3: Direct intervention, including possible Special Forces—“a very dangerous proposition.”

  "There’s no adults in the room here... There was one adult... the commander of southcom... What did he do? He resigned his commission."
  — Jon Lee Anderson (35:00)

• Regional Risks:
  Latin America views this as a return to imperialist intervention, stirring unease even among those who dislike Maduro.

  "The problem is, Latin Americans with any sense of history or national pride will be looking at this with huge misgivings because they know that what happened in Venezuela could happen to them, too."
  — Jon Lee Anderson (36:36)

• Venezuela’s Complex Reality:
  Weak state, active guerrilla groups and paramilitaries, and a long tradition of anti-imperialist rhetoric means intervention could rapidly spiral.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “This is black ops at its most baroque.”
  (01:23, Anderson — on the performative nature of Trump’s Venezuela policy)
• “We don’t execute drug mules… We don’t shoot them at the side of the road, which is effectively what we are now doing in the high seas.”
  (08:57, Anderson — on the extrajudicial killings)
• “Bullying tactics… may work in the short term, but it’s not going to work in the long term.”
  (20:30, Anderson — on US drug policy ineffectiveness)
• “The last time... an equivalent kind of behavior... you have to go back almost to World War II.”
  (14:05, Anderson — on reports of killing shipwreck survivors)
• “It’s all of a piece, and all of it has to do with Trump’s ego. Venezuela is the country he wants to see bend at the knee to him.”
  (40:20, Anderson — on Trump’s genuine motive)

Timestamps for Key Segments

• 00:10–02:45: Gunboat Diplomacy Explained
• 03:53–08:33: Details and Legality of Boat Strikes
• 08:33–13:13: US Political and Economic Motives (Venezuela as a “test case”)
• 13:13–17:20: The September 2nd Strike and Congressional Fallout
• 18:23–26:15: Drug War Efficacy, US Policy Contradictions, the DEA
• 25:24–28:40: Trump’s Pardon of Hernández — Double Standards
• 30:30–36:12: Possible Endgames and Escalation Scenarios
• 36:12–41:00: Latin American Perspective, Risks of Intervention, Trump’s Real Goals

Conclusion

The episode provides a sobering assessment of the Trump administration’s Venezuela strategy: a blend of domestic political theater, flawed drug war justification, and a potentially dangerous precedent for US intervention in the region. Anderson’s analysis frames the situation as both legally suspect and strategically reckless, arguing that the true motivation is Trump’s desire for dominance rather than genuine anti-narcotics effectiveness. The discussion is particularly strong in drawing connections between past US interventions, current political ambitions, and the messy local realities in Venezuela.

For further reading:
Jon Lee Anderson’s latest stories at The New Yorker
Episode host: Tyler Foggatt
Guest: Jon Lee Anderson

Production credits and outro follow after main content (not summarized).