Podcast Summary: "Will the Government Get Tough on Big Tech?"

The Political Scene | The New Yorker
Host: David Remnick
Guest: Sue Halpern
Date: June 17, 2019

Main Theme

This episode explores increasing bipartisan calls to hold major technology companies—Google, Apple, Amazon, and Facebook—accountable through regulation and potential antitrust actions. David Remnick and Sue Halpern analyze why these companies have come under scrutiny, the challenges of applying existing antitrust laws, the role of privacy concerns, and the shifting political and regulatory environment surrounding Big Tech.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Unlikely Consensus and Growing Distrust

• Bipartisan Agreement:
  • Remnick highlights an unusual convergence, noting that both Elizabeth Warren and Steve Bannon distrust Big Tech:

    "If you can get Elizabeth Warren and Steve Bannon to agree on something...that you're doing a lousy job and you can't be trusted. That's kind of a feat." (01:37)

• Political Attention:
  • The DOJ, FTC, and Congress are actively investigating the big four tech giants. Warren has made breaking them up a campaign issue.

2. Failures and Controversies in Tech Oversight

• Problematic Behaviors:
  • Halpern references recent "wrong and creepy" actions by tech companies, spotlighting the doctored Nancy Pelosi video on Facebook:

    "The last of which was the Nancy Pelosi fake video that made her look like a drunken fool." (02:46)

  • Facebook’s reaction:

    "Well, we don't have a rule that says everything on our platform has to be true." (03:20)

• Public & Political Frustration:
  • This response has fueled calls for more oversight.

3. Limits of Current Antitrust Laws

• Outdated Legal Frameworks:
  • Halpern explains the disconnect:

    "Antitrust is typically about pricing ... and that's not what's happening here." (03:51)

  • Breaking up companies alone won’t address privacy, surveillance, or propaganda issues.

4. The Turning Point Against Tech Giants

• 2016 Election & Cambridge Analytica:
  • Halpern names two major catalysts:
    • Use of Platforms for Propaganda: "Platforms ... being used to project and inject propaganda into the country." (05:07)
    • Data Harvesting Scandals: Cambridge Analytica's misuse of data spurred public outrage, but similar tactics used by the Obama campaign weren't as scrutinized:

      "They weren't doing it for the dark arts ... they were doing it to try to get people to get out to vote." (06:23)

• Shifting Attitudes:
  • Public concern deepened after the surprise election result, prompting tougher questions.

5. Privacy at the Forefront

• Lack of U.S. Data Laws:
  • Halpern:

    "There are really no laws that protect our data and protect us from the acquisition of our data and the sale of our data..." (07:08)

  • States like California are leading with laws similar to the EU's GDPR.
• Tech Companies Welcome Federal Regulation (But Want to Write It):

  "They want to direct ... how it goes so that ultimately they still win." (09:49)

6. Barriers in Washington

• Lukewarm Political Appetite:
  • Deep-seated resistance to strong regulation, both from Republicans and "starry-eyed" Democrats, compounded by campaign contributions from Silicon Valley:

    "For the longest time, they were getting a lot of money from the tech companies from Silicon Valley." (09:21)

7. The Role of Oversight Agencies

• Regulatory Inaction:
  • The FTC has historically been "toothless":

    "The FTC has been unbelievably toothless in its regulation of tech." (10:31)

  • Past settlements, such as the 2011 Facebook consent decree, lacked enforcement.
• Who Can Make an Impact?:
  • Both the FTC and DOJ have legal standing; presidential candidates drive the conversation but have limited direct power.
  • Halpern:

    "One of the things that happens when they talk, when Elizabeth Warren talks about breaking up big tech, she automatically puts the tech companies on the defensive." (11:49)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On bipartisan agreement:

  "If you can get Elizabeth Warren and Steve Bannon to agree on something... that's kind of a feat. And that's where the big four tech companies are right now."
  — David Remnick (01:37)

• On Facebook’s response to misinformation:

  "We don't have a rule that says everything on our platform has to be true."
  — Facebook spokesperson, as cited by Sue Halpern (03:20)

• On the inadequacy of current laws:

  "Antitrust is typically about pricing ... and that's not what's happening here."
  — Sue Halpern (03:51)

• On data privacy law gaps:

  "There are really no laws that protect our data and protect us from the acquisition of our data and the sale of our data..."
  — Sue Halpern (07:08)

• On the political reality:

  "For the longest time, they were getting a lot of money from the tech companies from Silicon Valley."
  — Sue Halpern (09:21)

• On regulatory agency failures:

  "The FTC has been unbelievably toothless in its regulation of tech."
  — Sue Halpern (10:31)

• On the value of public conversation:

  "The beginning of any of this, is to have this in the public domain, because it's not going to happen if we just say, oh, well, they're too big. They're too big not only to fail, they're too big to succeed."
  — Sue Halpern (11:49)

Key Timestamps

• [01:37] Bipartisan distrust of Big Tech
• [02:46] Facebook’s handling of Pelosi video
• [03:51] Problems with applying current antitrust law
• [05:07] 2016 election and Cambridge Analytica as a turning point
• [07:08] Absence of U.S. data/privacy protection laws
• [09:21] Political donations and resistance to regulation
• [10:31] Regulatory failures of the FTC
• [11:49] Who in government can effect real change?

Conclusion

Remnick and Halpern’s discussion reveals that while bipartisan skepticism of Big Tech is at an all-time high, and regulatory agencies are stepping up investigations, significant legal and political hurdles remain. Current antitrust frameworks are ill-suited to address the true impacts of these companies, particularly in areas of privacy and the spread of misinformation. Efforts at state and federal levels are underway, but with tech giants lobbying to shape new regulations to their liking, the effectiveness of any forthcoming government crackdown remains uncertain. Public conversation, driven even by campaign rhetoric, is crucial if meaningful action is to follow.

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