The Political Scene | The New Yorker

Episode Title: Will Trump’s Obsession with Space Save NASA?
Date: March 26, 2025
Host: Tyler Foggatt
Guest: David W. Brown, New Yorker contributor and space industry reporter

Episode Overview

This episode dives into the impact of Donald Trump’s second term and Elon Musk’s deepening influence on NASA and American space policy. Host Tyler Foggatt and guest David W. Brown explore the current state of NASA, shifting political agendas, the entanglement with SpaceX, and the increasing politicization of space exploration. The episode probes whether Trump’s and Musk’s fascination with space is a lifeline for NASA or a threat to its core mission.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. NASA’s Response to Trump’s Second Term and Musk’s Rise (01:52–03:29)

• Many federal workers feared for their agencies after the Trump/Musk victory, but NASA’s initial mood was one of anxious expectation.
• David W. Brown: “NASA survived [job cuts] simply because of their high operational tempo… The people that they were going to fire were so busy doing their jobs that there was no time to plan on how we’re going to fire them.” (02:14)

2. Trump’s Influence vs. Musk’s Influence (04:22–05:12)

• Trump's vision is less about nuanced space policy and more about legacy and spectacle; he wants quick wins (like moon landings).
• Musk, on the other hand, has become the key advisor shaping Trump’s attitudes and, by extension, NASA’s direction.
• Brown: “The last guy in the room seems to be Elon Musk at every given moment, which means the American space program is about to become Elon Musk.” (04:56)

3. Why NASA Matters—and Why Funding Cuts Are Misguided (06:02–09:29)

• NASA receives less than 0.5% of the federal budget—eliminating it would have negligible fiscal benefits.
• NASA’s research is foundational to everyday technology (e.g., GPS, phone calls, food science, material science).
• Brown: “NASA does a lot with very little… The very fact that you and I are having this conversation… a significant percentage of the technology that disenabled this was developed as a result of NASA grants.” (06:35)
• The “trickle-down” effect of NASA’s R&D is immense, from sunglasses to crop science.

4. Moon vs. Mars—Shifting Priorities and Political Whiplash (09:29–14:41)

• The Artemis lunar program was a Trump initiative; Obama focused on Mars, and Biden continued Artemis.
• Now, Musk’s Mars-centric ambitions may pull NASA away from the Moon again—creating uncertainty and instability.
• Brown: “We don’t know exactly what the second Trump administration’s priorities are going to be… Given that Elon Musk’s personal inclination… is to get human beings on Mars, and because he has Trump’s ear, does that mean we’re going to shift directions?” (10:04)
• Risks in neglecting fundamental research for high-profile goals; previous U.S. setbacks (like losing commercial aviation leadership to Airbus) are cautionary tales.
• Brown: “If we start gutting fundamental research… we’re going to have a gap in what we know how to do with respect to current technology.” (12:24)

5. NASA–SpaceX Interdependence and Conflicts of Interest (16:33–19:08)

• Both organizations are now critically interdependent: “SpaceX is the only way we can get astronauts to the International Space Station… On the other hand, if NASA vanished… SpaceX’s biggest client is NASA.” (16:55)
• Elon Musk’s leadership in both SpaceX and federal cost-cutting creates a glaring “conflict of interest.”
• Brown: “The conflict of interest is comical and how obvious and blatant it is. And I don’t see how any right minded human being could look at what’s happening right now and say, yes, Elon Musk is the person for this job.” (18:12)

6. Implications of Cost-Cutting and Politicization (19:08–22:18; 23:26–26:36)

• Musk’s cost-cutting is likely to slash basic science and research—a slow-burning disaster with effects not visible until it’s too late.
• The reallocation of contracts (e.g., from NASA’s SLS rocket to SpaceX) centralizes Musk’s influence and further politicizes NASA.
• Space exploration is becoming increasingly aligned with right-wing politics due to Trump/Musk association, with liberals moving away from supporting Musk and SpaceX.
• Brown: “Everything Trump touches tends to get diminished in some way, and space exploration is no different... For the whole history of space exploration, there has been no one person who embodies exploration… What we’re seeing right now… is that phenomenon taking shape.” (23:26)

7. A Fractured Path and America’s Future in Space (27:09–31:09)

• Periodic partisan shifts (every 4–8 years) leave long-term projects unfinished—Moon, Mars, orbits, and back again.
• China’s disciplined, goal-oriented space program is contrasted with U.S. volatility.
• The possible dismantling of the Artemis program threatens sustained lunar exploration.
• Brown: “Fundamental research is going to be set back by at least a decade. …We’re only going to find out after the damage is done.” (27:09)
• Brown: “When we look at the Chinese space program, we are looking at a highly disciplined program... They have a goal and they’re going to stick to it. …When Biden came in and said, yes, we will continue the Trump era Artemis Program, it became a bipartisan thing. …But instead [Trump has] decided let’s destroy everything.” (29:33–31:09)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On NASA's Budget and Value:
  "If we erased the entire American space program tomorrow, nobody would notice fiscally... NASA does a lot with very little."
  — David W. Brown (06:02)

• On SpaceX’s Achievements Origins:
  “That stuff didn’t just spring from the forehead of Elon Musk… The billions upon billions of dollars in NASA infrastructure and research over the last 50, 60 years fed directly into that.”
  — David W. Brown (11:38)

• On the Conflict of Interest:
  “I mean, the conflict of interest is comical in how obvious and blatant it is.”
  — David W. Brown (18:12)

• On Politicization:
  "Everything Trump touches tends to get diminished in some way, and space exploration is no different… When we think about space exploration now, we think about Elon Musk."
  — David W. Brown (23:26)

• On Long-Term Damage:
  “Fundamental research is going to be set back by at least a decade... The long term implications of that we’re only going to find out after the damage is done.”
  — David W. Brown (27:09)

• On the Need for Consistency:
  "Personally, I would love to see someone on Mars in my lifetime, but at this point, I would just like to see an astronaut anywhere beyond low Earth orbit. Just pick one—Moon or Mars."
  — David W. Brown (29:33)

Timestamps for Key Segments

| Timestamp | Topic | |------------|-----------------------------------------------------------------| | 01:52 | Tyler introduces David; NASA’s reaction to Trump/Musk | | 04:22 | Trump and Musk change NASA’s trajectory | | 06:02 | Why NASA matters and funding impacts | | 09:29 | Tensions between Moon and Mars priorities | | 12:24 | Risks of cutting fundamental research | | 16:33 | NASA–SpaceX interdependence and conflict of interest | | 18:12 | Musk’s cost-cutting and its implications | | 23:26 | Politicization of space; Musk/Trump and public perception | | 27:09 | The future of NASA, risks to research, partisan whiplash | | 29:33 | The need for consistency; comparison with China’s space effort |

Conclusion

This episode paints a sobering portrait of the great promise and peril currently facing NASA. Trump’s and Musk’s shared fixation with space could preserve headline-grabbing programs, but may decimate the quieter, critical work that secures American leadership in science and technology. The growing political polarization surrounding NASA—unprecedented in the agency’s history—threatens to erode long-standing bipartisan support and to compromise the stability needed for meaningful progress. As David W. Brown notes: just picking a course—Moon or Mars—and sticking to it would itself be a major achievement.

For deeper insights, read David W. Brown’s reporting on NASA and politics at newyorker.com.