Podcast Summary: "With Roe v. Wade Under Threat, a New Era in the Battle Over Abortion Rights"

The Political Scene | The New Yorker
Date: January 24, 2019
Host: Dorothy Wickenden
Guest: Gia Tolentino, Staff Writer at The New Yorker

Episode Overview

This episode explores the evolving landscape of abortion rights in the United States as the Supreme Court's conservative majority endangers the future of Roe v. Wade. Host Dorothy Wickenden and guest Gia Tolentino analyze the surge of restrictive state-level abortion laws, the passage of New York’s “Reproductive Health Act,” and how both sides of the debate are preparing for a potentially post-Roe future. The discussion delves into the rhetoric, public perception, and deeply personal realities surrounding abortion, especially late-term procedures.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Shifting Ground: Roe v. Wade and State-Level Actions

[01:16-03:04]

• President Trump’s appointment of conservative justices brings the anti-abortion movement closer to overturning Roe v. Wade after 45+ years.
• State-level battles intensify: West Virginia & Alabama pass constitutional amendments to ban abortion if Roe falls; Kentucky & Florida push “heartbeat bills.”
• Blue states like New York respond by codifying abortion rights, such as with New York’s Reproductive Health Act (RHA).

Quote:

"With President Trump's appointment of two conservative justices to the Supreme Court, anti abortion proponents are close to achieving a 45 year goal—the overturning of Roe v. Wade." – Dorothy Wickenden [01:19]

2. New York’s History of Abortion Legislation

[03:06-04:43]

• New York legalized abortion in 1970, before Roe, becoming a haven without residency requirements.
• Despite its early progressiveness, restrictive language lingered in state criminal codes, only now being corrected by the RHA.
• RHA removes abortion from the criminal code, aligning with (and in some cases extending) Roe’s protections.

Quote:

"New York legalized abortion in 1970... but the way that it did so was to make abortion a crime with major exceptions." – Gia Tolentino [03:20]

3. The Rhetoric and Reality of Abortion Rights

[05:24-07:43]

• Anti-abortion activism has led to cumulative restrictions and the “mass shaming” of women seeking abortions, even for legal procedures.
• Cultural narratives paint abortion as shameful, particularly in conservative states.
• Stories and stigma overshadow the statistical safety and regularity of abortion.

Quote:

"Effectively over the last couple of decades... women who seek abortions are, especially in conservative states like that, made to feel like what they're doing is illegal, that it's shameful, that they are doing something they're not supposed to do." – Gia Tolentino [06:20]

4. Understanding Late-Term Abortion

[07:50-10:37]

• Late-term abortions are rare (about 1% of all cases), and most abortions occur before 14 weeks.
• Many late-term abortions result from tragic fetal diagnoses or late discoveries of pregnancy, not elective reasons.
• Late-term abortion is pivotal to understanding broader reproductive rights: restrictions on access (contraceptives, clinics) increase unwanted pregnancies and later procedures.

Quote:

"I think that the ability to decide if and when you become a mother is related to a long spectrum of reproductive access that starts with birth control and ends with late abortion." – Gia Tolentino [08:13]

Personal Story Highlight:

• The case of Erika Christensen who, after a devastating fetal diagnosis at 31 weeks, had to leave New York and pay over $10,000 for a legal abortion in Colorado.

"Everyone, even people in pro-choice liberal New York were like, oh, so you're doing the shady thing. ...this is the medical recommendation that my doctors made, and I'm doing it legally." – Gia Tolentino [11:21]

5. The National Debate: Rhetoric and Respect

[14:25-17:22]

• The debate is shaped by issues beyond abortion, like attitudes towards contraception and sex.
• "Abstinence-only" education—promoted by the Trump administration—fails to prevent premarital sex or unwanted pregnancies.
• Gia Tolentino argues for a shift from “politics of sympathy” to “politics of respect”: women's autonomy and equality, not just special pleading for sympathetic cases.

Quote:

"This is a moment to stop moving from the politics of sympathy, which is terms set by conservatives, to the politics of respect... It's about a woman as an independent subject that deserves political equality." – Gia Tolentino [15:48]

6. Backlash and Perception in New York

[16:35-17:51]

• Backlash to the RHA includes condemnation from religious leaders and some upstate communities.
• The “late abortions on demand” rhetoric misrepresents medical reality.
• Celebration of abortion rights (e.g., lighting One World Trade Center pink) sparked debate over tone and sensitivity.

Quote:

"We don’t speak of getting knee surgery on demand. ...To many people [removing criminal penalties is] seen as a bad thing. To me, it seems like a good one." – Gia Tolentino [16:47]

7. Moving Forward: Democratic Party and Political Discourse

[19:36-20:34]

• Should the Democratic Party make space for “pro-life” views? Gia advocates engagement and discourse without ceding the right to abortion as a core value.
• The pro-choice movement must reaffirm trust in women and doctors, moving away from defensive rhetoric.

Quote:

"If we trust women, we trust them, and if we trust doctors, we trust them... we ought to be able to trust that. Essentially, no woman is walking into a doctor's office at 36 weeks and being like, 'I'm tired of being pregnant. Will you get rid of it?'" – Gia Tolentino [19:55]

Memorable Quotes & Moments

• On cultural transformation:

  "Abortion is not a crime... abortion is safer than giving birth, you know, statistically..." – Gia Tolentino [06:28]

• On the rarity and complexity of late-term abortion:

  "One of the common responses actually was, ‘Well, that's not an abortion.’ And I think people just don't know that that is one of the things that late abortion looks like." – Gia Tolentino [12:33]

• On abortion access as respect for life:

  "There’s a case that abortion is an essential part of respecting life in a way, the permitting people to become parents when they want to be." – Gia Tolentino [17:51]

Timestamps for Key Segments

• Supreme Court, State Laws, and RHA: [01:16–04:49]
• Shaming and Rhetoric: [05:24–07:43]
• Late-Term Abortion & Personal Stories: [07:50–13:14]
• Broader Societal and Political Debate: [14:25–19:36]
• Democratic Party and Future Discourse: [19:36–20:51]

Episode Tone & Language

The conversation is empathetic, thoughtful, and analytical, balancing personal narrative and policy analysis. Wickenden’s interviewing is inquisitive and measured; Tolentino’s responses are detailed, candid, and rooted in both research and personal experience. The tone avoids polemics in favor of nuanced discussion.

Useful for Anyone Wanting:

• A compact history of abortion law in New York and nationally
• An understanding of how real women’s experiences are erased in political rhetoric
• Insight into how new laws and the broader cultural climate are shaping the future of abortion rights