← The Political Scene | The New Yorker
The Political Scene | The New Yorker
Zhang Yuanan Talks to Evan Osnos About the Chinese View of Trump
00:08:19
Zhang Yuanan Talks to Evan Osnos About the Chinese View of Trump
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- [00:00]
A
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- [01:36]
B
I met a journalist named Yuan Anzhang last year at the Republican National Convention. She was covering the convention for Caixin, which is a business magazine in Beijing. And she was listening very closely to what Donald Trump had to say because he'd been talking in very tough terms about China's economic policy. This includes stopping China's outrageous theft of intellectual property, along with their illegal product dumping and their devastating currency manipulation. They are the greatest currency manipulators ever. I interviewed Yuan Anjiang at the convention, and now, six months into the Trump administration, we met up again in Washington. So we follow all of the twists and turns over here with immense interest. How closely is the Chinese public following our American political drama?
- [02:32]
C
They're following very closely what he does, what he says, what the Cabinet does. For example, the testimony of the FBI, former FBI Director James Comey, and Many Chinese media translate that testimony into Chinese, including us. We put it online, and people would say, wow, this is so fascinating. This is even better than House of Cards.
- [03:00]
B
House of Cards is pretty popular in China. Is it?
- [03:02]
C
Yes, it is very popular among young people.
- [03:04]
B
When Donald Trump was a candidate last year, he talked about China in very harsh terms. Sometimes he would say that China was. I think the word he used was raping the United States of jobs and so on. Now that he's president, has he been following through on the kinds of policies that China was expecting, or is it something else?
- [03:24]
C
I think when he came into the office, Chinese were a little bit nervous, but he said a lot of things. For example, the currency manipulator and also the tariff on Chinese goods. But he follow through on those and said, okay, I learned a lot from my meeting with Chinese President Xi Jinping, and we have important issues that we could work on, for example, North Korea. And he doesn't like further push the trade and currency manipulator issues, but rather give China some more time. I think for Chinese, some people think he was calculating because if he took some actions, China could react with retaliation. It was not like withdrawing from TPP or Paris Accord, those things. He might not have immediate consequences, but if you do something to China, China would react. Maybe that is why he backed off from some of the promises.
- [04:33]
B
On the campaign trail, Donald Trump and Xi Jinping met for the first time in Florida. And they had this summit at Donald Trump, Donald Trump's club, Mar a Lago. And afterwards, Trump came out of it saying very affectionate things about presidency. He says they have great chemistry. What do you make of these two people together, these two leaders? Do they strike you as being very different kinds of people, or do you think they have anything in common?
- [04:59]
C
They absolutely have different personalities. But this summit between President Xi and President Trump was different from other leaders summit as well. President Trump seemed to be very friendly to President Xi and First Lady. His daughter Ivanka and his grandchildren can speak Chinese, which was very appealing to Chinese readers. They were fascinated by how fluent his grandchildren could, like, sing Chinese songs. And it went better than many of the expectations. What's in common was probably two leaders are seen to be very pragmatic, they can solve issues and do deals.
- [05:46]
B
So in some ways, Americans talk about President Trump as a transactional president. Yes, China is a pretty transactional place.
- [05:52]
C
Yes, that's what they're in common.
- [05:55]
B
So recently, Donald Trump, of course, pulled out of the Paris agreement on climate change. Some people look at this and they Say, well, this is an opportunity for China to take a greater role in the world as a leader on the global stage. Is that how it's being described and felt in China?
- [06:11]
C
Yes, I think that would be correct. Chinese Premier Li Keqiang just went to Europe, and President Trump just came back from Europe. And I think people have very different feelings about these two countries now. And I also remember that in January, I was in Davos at the World Economic Forum, and that was around the same time of the Inauguration Day. And I met an executive in advertisement from New York. We were in the same shuttle bus, and President Xi just gave his speech.
- [06:50]
B
And in his speech, didn't he say something about the importance of globalization?
- [06:54]
C
Yes, yes, he talked about globalization. And the participants at Davos was so, well, they were impressed. At the same time, they had a mixed feeling that EU and the United States were not the one who's promoting globalization at this stage. So this executive said to me, well, President Xi looked very presidential and his speech was impressive. And he said, we need a leader like that in this era.
- [07:25]
B
I remember a few years ago, the United States used to talk about the need for China to play the role of a, quote, responsible stakeholder. That was the term in American diplomacy. Do you get the feeling that China has some ambivalence about being a global leader or being the number one power in the world? I'll tell you exactly what I mean. For years, China has talked about returning to the place that it held for most of history, really, which was the most powerful civilization on Earth. But as we sort of get closer to that moment, to that new phase in history, there is also some hesitation, because when you are the number one power in the world, it can be costly. It can come with sense of expectation. How do you think the Chinese public is feeling about the idea that the United States is quite rapidly, almost unexpectedly, adopting this America first policy and how that might change the way that people expect things from China in the world.
- [08:29]
C
People in China are also seeing the rise of China very rapidly in the past 10 years, and they would expect this growth to continue. So I think for China, it has the aspiration to be a world leader, but it's not there yet. Because although the country is very powerful and strong, but still, if you look at the average GDP per capita, it is still low. So domestically, there are a lot of issues to be solved, like overcapacity, the employment issues, and to improve the people's living conditions. So I think it wants to be sometime in the future, but it's not ready yet.
- [09:25]
A
That was Yuan An Xiang talking to Evan Osnos. America is changing, and so is the world.
- [09:38]
B
But what's happening in America isn't just a cause of global upheaval. It's also a symptom of disruption that's happening everywhere.
- [09:46]
A
I'm Asma Khalid in Washington, D.C. i'm.
- [09:48]
B
Tristan Redman in London, and this is the Global Story.
- [09:52]
A
Every weekday, we'll bring you a story from this intersection where the world and America meet.
- [09:58]
B
Listen on BBC.com or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [10:06]
C
From. PRX.