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The PoliticsGirl Podcast
Enemies: Both Foreign & Domestic. A Conversation with Janessa Goldbeck
01:03:22
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- [00:00]
Janessa Goldbeck
It's not like the military is like this precious thing that has only ever been used for good. Like there are some really, really deep and stark criticisms we can make about the decisions of how we've employed the military in the past. And I think that's important to keep in perspective. However, using the armed military as a political prop to instill fear in American citizens so that the executive can take more power, enrich his friends, and strip us of our sort of constitutional rights along the way, that is a new thing.
- [00:40]
Lee McGowan
Hello and welcome to the Politics Girl podcast. I'm your host, Lee McGowan. Let's get into it. Well, I think anyone who's paying attention can see that we've crossed the Rubicon, that there is no longer a near constitutional crisis, but we are deep inside one that our president is outright denying Supreme Court rulings, doctoring evidence to justify human trafficking, bypassing Congress to rule by executive order that our Justice Department, IRS and FCC are no longer independent agencies but acting as enforcement arms of our president's personal vendettas. That our government is stopping food inspections and health research and public information on the spread of deadly diseases. The Trump administration seems completely disinterested in governing, far more interested in focusing on personal profit and payback. And three months into this presidency, we have abandoned our long established allies from Western liberal democracies to favor mutually agreeable relationships with dictator run nations like Hungary, Russia, North Korea and El Salvador. In fact, as we shoot today, we were watching to see if this administration would double down on their national emergency lies as an excuse to invoke the Insurrection act and unleash American troops on American citizens. One of the groups I keep thinking about when I consider the options we have to save ourselves is the military. I'm curious what our veterans are thinking. Thinking. I question where our active duty officers who pledge to support our Constitution against enemies both foreign and domestic, are in all this. I wonder how the military can just watch as our Constitution is trampled and do nothing. To help me answer these questions, I'm going to be talking to Janessa Goldbeck. Janessa is the CEO of Vet Voice foundation, the national nonprofit that advocates for veterans and military families to actively participate in our democracy. As a Marine Corps combat engineer officer, Janessa led missions overseas and supported service members. As a uniformed victim advocate, Janessa's activism included challenging the combat exclusion policy and contributing to its repeal, which allowed all qualified applicants, regardless of gender, to serve in all military roles. Before serving in the military, Janessa led efforts to protect civilians in conflict Zones as a human rights advocate. So I wanted to get her take on what the military might be thinking at this moment in time, both under its current leadership, but also including the veterans who still remain devoted to their oath. So without further ado, please welcome my guest, former Marine human rights advocate and CEO of Vet Voice Foundation, Janessa Goldbeck.
- [03:09]
Unknown
Welcome back, Janessa.
- [03:10]
Janessa Goldbeck
Thanks for having me.
- [03:11]
Unknown
Oh, well, thanks for joining me. Honestly, our regular audience members might remember when you were on last year and we were discussing your film War Game, which was a documentary that imagined a nationwide insurrection in which members of the US Military kind of chose to defect in order to support a Trump like character who had lost the election, but refused to admit that loss. And it was, you know, the movie played like a thriller. It was such a good film where you had all these senior officials from the last five presidential administration dealing with the crisis in the White House situation room, and they were given six hours to either save democracy or take us into a civil war. And I would highly recommend people go back and listen to that or even watch that film because it really gets you into the mindset of what people are supposed to do and the level of expertise these people in these rooms are supp to have. But that particular scenario didn't play out. So Trump won, and yet it still feels like we're bordering on violence and insurrection anyway. So where do you see America at this moment in time?
- [04:14]
Janessa Goldbeck
Wow, that's a tough question. Yeah, it feels. It feels like a very dangerous moment. You know, there are so many things that are happening that are not just norm shattering, but truly testing the fabric of our system. Checks and balances, the power of the judiciary, the power of Congress, you know, any sort of restraint on the executive. It feels like we are in a time now where all of the sort of branches of government, civil society, people and firms and institutions that have independence are ceding that to the president in a way that feels really unlike the vision of America that I had growing up.
- [05:00]
Unknown
Yeah, I think the vision of America that most of us had growing up and what we thought we had behind us with, you know, our institutions and checks and balances and that kind of thing. I mean, you and I were scheduled to have this conversation a couple of days ago, but we put it off until today, Monday, the 21st, because we wanted to see if Trump declared martial law, you know, if he, if he put the Insurrection act into account and, you know, basically put military in our streets. And this is what it's come to, right? The American government using the American military against the American people is something that we actually have to discuss. And I think we have to be clear that Trump is kind of chomping at the bit to use the military against the American people. And he clearly thinks the American military work directly for him, that they should be doing his bidding, much like you would play with little soldiers if you were a child. That is kind of how I think Donald Trump sees the military. You know, I think personally he would like to use nuclear weapons just to see what happened. Like, he just wants to be the guy that presses the button, right? Like, it makes me very anxious to have this kind of character in charge. The question is, would our military go along with that? You know, especially with all the yes men that he's put in charge around him. As a military expert and someone that works with military people all day and someone that's been in the military yourself for so long, what is the general sense of if the Insurrection act was put into account, how the military itself would respond to that?
- [06:24]
Janessa Goldbeck
Well, I think the first thing that you mentioned is really important to talk about, which is that he's sort of undermined the function of the military as an independent entity by firing generals, senior leaders, purging the ranks of people he believes are woke simply on the basis of their race or gender. These are 30 year combat career officers who've been purged because they are not sufficiently loyal to Donald Trump. Generational harm of that on its own is. Is like not getting enough attention, in my opinion. And I know that there are people who are choosing to not re up their contracts or retire because they wanted. They're like, I didn't sign up to serve one man. I pledged an oath to the Constitution. So that on itself is really alarming. The Insurrection act is. You know, I think a lot of Americans have been learning about what it is over the last week as reporting has been going on about this 90 day report that was supposed to be due on Sunday. You know, as of this morning, it seems that I can't even bring myself to call him the Secretary of defense. Pete Hegseth. But former Fox News host Pete Hegseth and Kristi Noem have not recommended the use of it right now. But what's really challenging about the Insurrection act is it is an authority that gives the president basically complete power over the military to federalize active duty military troops, to deploy them domestically, to suspend posse comitatus. And all of that is lawful but awful. And so if you are serving in the military right now and the president gives you a lawful Order, you are obligated by your oath to follow it. And I think that's where so many of us who are veterans or who have served are looking at the possible invocation of the Insurrection act under very challenging circumstances and saying, like, well, if I were in that position in this moment, like, I would, that would be a lawful order from the President. And so it's putting our military officers and our troops in this really, really challenging position where they be asked to do some sort of immigration enforcement or deportation or whatever it is under a technically lawful order. Or the President might just come out and say, hey, even if it seems unlawful, I'm going to pardon you anyways, just like I did for the J6ers. And so it's just a really, really awful moment. I can't even imagine what it's like to be in uniform right now.
- [08:50]
Unknown
Yeah, no, honestly, I mean, you were giving some background on the Insurrection act in general. And I want people to understand that the Insurrection act itself, it's like a 200 year old law. This is not like we wrote it in the past decade and the President really does get almost complete power over the military inside the United States. But it has been used in the past. I don't want people to think it's never been used, that Donald Trump is pulling this out of nowhere, but it's always been a last resort right to restore order, to protect civil rights, to respond to some sort of genuine breakdown in public safety, not to get your own way in everything that you want. President Lincoln used it during the Civil War. Grant used it again, the Ku Klux Klan, President Johnson used it to end school segregation. Bush used it during the LA riots. So, like, it has been used, it has been invoked, but for a short period of time to sort of quell something to help with something, to, to make it better for the American people, not to make it easier for the American President to do what the American President wants. But the problem is, is what you were saying, like, it's written to be incredibly broad, which makes it really ripe for abuse if it's being used by a President with authoritarian tendencies. Because the act doesn't require any sort of congressional approval. Not that he's going through Congress at all right now anyway. It's just sort of a Presidential proclamation. And then like, bam, the military can be in our streets. Right. So I think that's the tough position that our military will be in because they're not supposed to be involved in civilian law enforcement. That's a very big part of the Military, isn't it?
- [10:21]
Janessa Goldbeck
Absolutely, yeah. I mean, that's posse comitatus. That is a law that says that the military doesn't do domestic law enforcement unless it's suspended via the Insurrection Act. And, you know, think about who is in uniform. You know, we are, you know, people who are wearing the uniform are members of the society. They're from all walks of life, from all backgrounds, many immigrants, many family of immigrants. You sign up to serve and defend your country, to defend the Constitution, to defend the system of democracy, and then you're being asked to, you know, patrol the streets, potentially deport people from your community, go into places, do a mission that you are not trained to do, which puts you and the people that you're interacting with in a lot of danger. It's just a real, It's a big misuse. And I think that this president, you know, as you said at the top, he is like a, you know, he wants to press the button. He's a TV president. He wants to see armored vehicles in the streets of Chicago. He wants to see people responding to his authoritarian tendencies, and he wants those visuals. And so I don't think he cares at all about, you know, a system of government or checks and balances or any of that. He just wants to see his power displayed as little green men in the streets. And so it's, it's very frightening, both in terms of the people, for the people in uniform who may be asked to carry out these types of missions, but also for everyday Americans. You know, there is a reason why we love our country. And the thing that everyone across the political spectrum will tell you is it's freedom. Right. Well, what does freedom mean? I think fundamentally it means freedom from fear. And what the invocation of the Insurrection act, what this sort of escalation, this militarization of our society, of our democracy means is creating more fear. And nobody, nobody wants to see that. Except for, I guess, President Trump and those who are enabling him.
- [12:16]
Unknown
Yeah, those who are enabling him. Those he surrounded himself with. I mean, the thing is, the first time he was president, he was surrounded by people who were still what we call the adult in the room, the Mark Milley type, characters that were like, no, you can't shoot protesters in the knee. No, you can't, you know, use the military against our people. I think he would have loved to put out the Insurrection act during Black Lives Matter, like, but of course, he didn't even consider using it during the January 6 riots. Right. He wasn't like, geez, call in the military they're attacking the Capitol. Like that didn't even occur to him. He wanted there to be pushback from the left, and then he could call it out on us. I think that was sort of the goal. I think we should be clear that it's not technically military or it's not technically martial law. The Insurrection act, the military in as the Insurrection act, as I understand it, is supposed to assist civilian authorities, not replace them. But Trump could order the. You know, you were talking about visuals, the visuals of this sort of like strongman behavior, right? So he could have the army go door to door searching for people, right? He could set up checkpoints, he could block the streets, he could block the border. They could put, you know, curfews on us. The Coast Guard could be out there, like, aggressively patrolling our waters. The Marines or the army could be shutting down protests. There's lots that they could do that would sort of terrify us as a people. And the thing is that legal experts will tell us that, like, one of the biggest problems with the Insurrection act itself is that it's just such a wide open door for abuse. And we know that this current president and his administration, the people that surrounds him are abusive, right? Like, Donald Trump does not like rules. He does not like being constrained. He doesn't like anyone telling him what to do. So this idea that we have this thing written into our Constitution that just takes all the rules away, that just if you invoke it, like, that's it, it would give him almost unlimited power with few legal limitations. And that, I think, is the thing that we have to be sort of very aware of. And like you're saying, Hegseth and Kristi Noem have not yet recommended it. And if people don't understand, right. When Donald Trump came in on January 20 and was sworn in as president, they said we might use the Insurrection act. We have 90 days to decide, because the border is a complete crisis and we might have to deal with it. So they haven't yet said, yes, we. We're at the 90 day point and we really think we need to do it. If they did, they could start with the idea that it's the borders that we're protecting. Right. But it would only expand from there. They wouldn't keep it at the border.
- [14:40]
Janessa Goldbeck
Well, I think it's important to talk about where we are today, even without the invocation of the Insurrection act in terms of militarization of the border. So, you know, right. When Trump took office, he authorized 10,000 marines and soldiers to go down to the border of the southern border to do enforcement operations there. For the most part, that, you know, it's a lot of combat engineers. So they're building obstacles, patrolling the border wall, et cetera. Now, border crossings are, have been way down since about a year before the election. But in any case, There are now 10,000 uniform troops on the southern border. They've also taken a 60 foot strip of land called the Roosevelt Reservation, which was federally owned land managed by the Department of Interior, and transferred it to dod. What that allows them to do now, because it's been transferred to dod. You know, if you go to a military base or military installation in the United States, there are military police who are, are doing law enforcement around the installation. They have that right to do law enforcement on a DoD installation. They don't have that right to do law enforcement if they're on a civilian installation. So by transferring it to DoD, they've made it a DoD property. Now the military is authorized to do law enforcement functions on the strip of land. So that is an escalation, again, lawful, but not necessarily within the norms of what we would expect. And so I think that it's, it's all sort of escalatory. What will be interesting to me, and what's very interesting to me about the fact that Kristi Noem and Pete Hegseth haven't suggested the invocation of the Insurrection act, is that there is. It signals to me that public opinion still really matters. These are folks who understand how outside of the norm that is, who are probably hearing from friends and family about this. And public opinion is really one of the only tools that we have left for those of us who dissent from this administration's actions and priorities. Yes, we have the courts, and at Vet Voice foundation, we are suing the heck out of this administration, along with a lot of allies and partners over everything from Doge's access to the treasury benefits system to the firing and probationary employees, all of that. So we do have the courts, although we've seen this administration be, you know, willing to not necessarily follow the judgments of judges. But public opinion does matter. And we've seen that with, you know, Trump sort of back and forth on tariffs. We've seen that with a number of things. And so I think it's important that we continue to signal this is not normal. We are not okay with this, and we're not just going to roll over and let it happen.
- [17:12]
Unknown
Right. I mean, here's the thing you were saying earlier that, like, you can't even imagine being in uniform right now and having to like think about these things. What's the general sense you're getting from veterans about how they feel because you're a veteran, like you work with veterans. I mean, they probably know active duty officers right now. How do you think they're feeling? Even about, like you said about leadership, about having someone like Pete Hegseth in charge and losing, you know, the, the people that used to be in charge.
- [17:39]
Lee McGowan
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- [20:37]
Unknown
How do you think they're feeling? Even about, like you said about leadership, about having someone like Pete Hegseth in charge and losing the people that used to be in charge?
- [20:47]
Janessa Goldbeck
Yeah, well, you know, I see this thing online a lot that's kind of like, oh, well, didn't veterans all go for President Trump? Like, you know, you messed around and now you're finding out, well, sure, 60, 40 veterans voted for Donald Trump, but that's 40% of people in uniform that you're saying, you know, pound sand too, basically, if you have that mentality. And truly, every demographic in the last election shifted to the right. So let's not just like write off huge segments of the population just because of one election that reflected sort of global trends, shifting rightward, economic anxiety, all of that. So I'll start there because I do hear that a lot from my friends who are more progressive or maybe they don't know anyone who served in uniform. They're kind of like, well, screw you guys, you voted for Donald Trump 60%. 60%. 40% did not. That's a heck of a lot of people who serve their country.
- [21:39]
Unknown
Can I ask a question? Just because I hear it all the time, are they really playing Fox News in every military base? And why the hell is that happening?
- [21:48]
Janessa Goldbeck
This shocked me when I joined the I joined the Marine Corps when I was 26 years old. So I worked as a human rights advocate. Then I joined the Marine Corps. Long story. But anyways, I'm 26 years old. First of all, I'd never worked in a workplace that had cable news on. Like, like in general, why would there be a TV on in the workplace? It's not like a mandate doesn't come from, like, it's not like somebody at the top is pressing all the buttons. But, you know, the military does lean conservative and that Fox News is the most watched TV station in all of America. 31% of all Americans watch Fox News. And so, yeah, it was on all the time. And we've actually done a little bit of digging about whether or not we could like, like maybe sponsor a piece of legislation that would ban cable. I think, you know, cable news should not be on in the workplace, period. Like, it's, it is divisive. And also you should be at work, you shouldn't be watching the news at work. So.
- [22:39]
Unknown
Well, also maybe not watching the news that isn't news and had to pay over $700 million for lying about the election. You know what I mean? Like, that seems insane to me. Like if I had been the Biden administration, it would have been the first, one of the first things I did with the Nancy Pelosi still in Congress. Congress. I would have been like, let's sign a bill that says that, that that station, even all TVs are turned off on our military bases. Because that's insane. It's like we're brainwashing people all day long that are supposed to protect us.
- [23:04]
Janessa Goldbeck
So 100%.
- [23:05]
Unknown
No wonder 60% voted for him.
- [23:07]
Janessa Goldbeck
Yes, 100%. So I 100% agree with that. I don't, I think it's, it is crazy. And you know, Fox News is obviously like, it's just a complete propaganda machine. And, but the idea that, you know, I guess someone who is ideologically different than me would say the same thing about MSNBC.
- [23:25]
Unknown
So just turn off all the TVs.
- [23:27]
Janessa Goldbeck
Just turn them off. Just turn them off. Do your job. You have a taxpayer funded job. Turn off the tv. Baseball's fine, you know, that's it. But I will say, you asked me, how do veterans feel about this? Well, I'll tell you for the veterans that didn't vote for Trump were sort of all sitting here horrified, like, this is what we told you would happen. Did you read Project 2025? He literally said they wrote down what they were going to do. And so there are those of us who are sort of tearing our hair out. You know, we have veterans, people who have served since 9, 11 have, you know, I don't think, I think we've got a pretty healthy skepticism of a lot of leadership that's been at the dod. It's not like we've had like excellent people in charge the whole time we've been in uniform. You know, we've been subject to some pretty terrible foreign policy, national security decisions and suffered the consequences in our community. But at least they were people who had, you know, some sort of like greater sense of what they were fighting for maybe than their own self interest. And Pete Hegsett is a completely unqualified, completely self interested individual who, you know, we've seen in the first month of him being in office has jeopardized national security, has jeopardized the lives and safety of troops on the ground, performing operations in real time. And just that the arrogance of his behavior. You know, he, he talks about how he wants to bring merit back to the department of the least qualified Secretary of Defense to ever serve in that position and just truly making a mockery of the people who serve in uniform right now and the sacrifices that they and their families are making. So I cannot speak enough ill about the Secretary of Defense and the level of disdain that folks in uniform and veterans, I'll just speak for veterans have.
- [25:12]
Unknown
Of him, if I may say. A former chief Pentagon spokesperson who resigned last week said it has been a month since of total chaos at the Pentagon, from leaks of sensitive information and operational plans to mass firings. The dysfunction is such a distraction for the people in uniform and for the President. And everyone that is in the military deserves better from their senior leadership. And I mean, that's from someone who just resigned. They were like, I can't take it. This is absolutely ridiculous. You know, I mean, and it's, I.
- [25:48]
Janessa Goldbeck
Can only imagine if you're a senior leader at the Pentagon right now, like do you see stay to try to mitigate? Do you resign so you can speak publicly? I mean, these are real considerations that folks are having to make. The other thing I wanted to just mention is the 40% of people who didn't vote for Donald Trump and sort of how they're feeling. So we do focus groups all the time. We're listening to folks we set up after Doge, you know, after January 20th, we set up a Doge tip line to receive information from veterans who'd been negatively harmed by the actions of doge. Whether that was somebody, you know, losing their job or their benefits were reduced or they had some, you know, some other issue issue related to doge. We've received hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of submissions. Some of the Folks who submitted are now serving as plaintiffs in lawsuits. They have, you know, gone on national tv, they've done their local tv, they've spoken at some of the hands off rallies. And these are people who, some of them did vote for Donald Trump, but now they have lost their jobs. These are veterans who work at the va. These are veterans who provide, you know, essential emergency management services. We had one veteran who wrote in, who was a stage 4 cancer survivor who received life saving health treatment from the nih, that experimental medicine was cut off because of the DOGE cut. So thank God he is not sick now, but if his cancer were to recur, he would not have access to that treatment. I mean, so people are finding out in their communities like just how real this is. And we've seen veterans at town halls with members of Congress, we've seen veterans showing up and speaking publicly about this. And so the veterans voice is really impactful here because a lot of folks supported Donald Trump and they are directly being harmed by these policies, by these reckless, chaotic cuts. And so it's our job and our mission to really elevate their voices because veterans do have a lot of cross partisan respect and appeal in our society still. They're one of the last groups in our society that has that sort of ability to bridge between the right and the left. And so our mission is to ensure that their stories are told, that they are platformed. And I think it's imperative that folks who are in the progressive space are not afraid of talking to veterans and platforming them and listening to their stories. Just because somebody voted one way in an election doesn't mean you need to write them off entirely. Especially if their voice can reach across the aisle and really reach people who we're not normally speaking to. So I would really encourage folks to find ways in their communities, if they're impacted veterans, to bring them to the forefront of the conversation.
- [28:16]
Unknown
Yeah, and I understand there are veterans who are ready to support each other and support the active military if they are given any sort of illegal orders. And there's civilian groups right now, as I understand it, actively canvassing military bases with the message do not turn on us, which I think is a very interesting message. I mean, I can't even imagine what it must be like to be enlisted right now because obviously you pledge an oath to the Constitution, you pledge an oath, oath to the President, but now you're fighting for a country that is changing its loyalties. Right. That's like talking about leaving NATO and aligning yourselves with Russia. You're talking about annexing Canada or Greenland. You know, you're going to send the military into Gaza to clean it out and create the Riviera of the Middle east or some beautiful Trump Hotel. Right. Like, that is not what most of the troops signed up for, no matter how they voted. And it's sure as hell not what any of our grandfathers fought for. So I feel like. Like there's gotta be a moment of reckoning that's happening right now with both veterans and enlisted thinking, this is not at all what I believed I was fighting for.
- [29:20]
Janessa Goldbeck
Yeah, I mean, it's an unprecedented moment. I mean, you've got the president, like I said, like we've talked about this, the Instruction act is lawful. So you're stuck in this place where you may be asked to do something that is within the letter of the law, but is not why you signed up. And, and, you know, I guess I always try to think about where we are in time and if I'm being hyperbolic or like, you know, catastrophizing things. And so I do think it's important to think about. You know, we talked at the top of the show about times the Insurrection act has been used before, and one of the, the last time was the Rodney King riots. And I think about being a. There's this footage that's burned into my mind of a black soldier in a truck being driven into the riots in Los Angeles. And so it's not the first time that we've asked people in uniform to do something that might be really challenging to their values. Or, like, wait, I don't think that's why that soldier signed up to, you know, to go police the streets of Los Angeles in a moment of outcry over racial injustice. Like, and, you know, we'll talk about the Iraq war. Like service members who signed up because they wanted to do something for their country, but then are 20 years at war in the Middle east where hundreds of thousands of civilians are being killed, you know, something that our country hasn't yet reckoned with or really talked about. So it's not like the military is like this precious thing that has only ever been used for good. Like, there are some really, really deep and stark criticisms we can make about the decisions of how we've employed the military in the past. And I think that's important to keep in perspective. However, using the armed military as a political prop to instill fear in American citizens so that that the executive can take more power, enrich his friends, and strip us of our sort of Constitutional rights along the way, that is a new thing. We haven't seen that in the couple hundred years that we've existed as a country at this scale or at this pace. And so it's important to call it out. It's important to say this is not usual, this is not what this country is about, and to provide support for service members who might be questioning when something, when they're asked to do something that doesn't feel right.
- [31:36]
Unknown
And I don't think we can really mince words right now. I mean, no matter if the Insurrection act is, is invoked or not, right now, we are in a constitutional crisis. The Trump government has made it clear that they have very little interest, if any interest at all in the rule of law in democracy. In following the Constitution. They're talking about things like abandoning birthright citizenship. Right? I mean, that, that's standard American practice. We're watching people lose their constitutional rights to due process. We're seeing the ends of checks and balances, the separation of powers, I think. You know, I was looking at an expression from the Fourth Circuit of the U.S. court of Appeals recently, and they were talking about cases like Kilmar Abrego Garcia, who is basically rotting in a death camp prison in El Salvador despite the fact that he was deported by mistake and hasn't committed any crimes and had no due process. And the 4th Circuit said, said it's difficult to get to the very heart of a legal matter, but in this case, it's not hard at all. The government is asserting a right to stash away residents of this country in foreign prisons without semblance of due process. That is the foundation of our constitutional order. Further, it claims, in essence, that because it has relieved itself of custody, that there is nothing that can be done to get these people back. And this should be shocking not only to judges, but to the sense of liberty and freedom and rights that Americans, you know, who are far removed from courthouses, really hold dear. You know, so where do you think the military stands on things like that, these constitutional, like, obviousness, you know, the right to free speech, the right to protest, you know, the right to assemble, the right to due process, those kind of things? Because I keep wondering, where are the leaders that know that this is an authoritarian regime regime? Where are the, say, officers that swear an oath to the Constitution but not to the president right now? Where are the mark millies and stuff saying, like, this shouldn't be happening? You know, they did promise to defend us against enemies both foreign and domestic. So, like, when is that moment Well.
- [33:44]
Janessa Goldbeck
I really hope we don't get to the point where the military is making a decision about who is in charge. All right, like that.
- [33:50]
Unknown
Okay, okay. Okay. Because I'm kind of like, I wouldn't mind that.
- [33:54]
Janessa Goldbeck
Yeah, that, that is a, That's a bad. That's a bad vibe. If we've got the military overthrowing the duly elected president.
- [34:01]
Unknown
I don't know, I'm like, I love that you're a military person. You're like, you don't want that. You don't want that. And I'm like a civilian. I'm like, please just come and save us.
- [34:09]
Janessa Goldbeck
Yeah. I mean, I think that having worked in a lot of places where, you know, that has happened, you know, that, that, that is never the recipe for, for, for good times or, or peace. So I think right now where we're at is we are in a position where we have a duly elected president who basically told everyone what he was going to do and is now doing it now. You know, I think Congress is absolutely laughable at this point. Congressional Republicans are. I mean, I guess they just want to look like little lap dogs. Like, they have no courage, no integrity, no sense of. We have a duty to the Constitution to provide a check and a balance against the executive. I mean, it is like, no, it's a joke.
- [34:56]
Unknown
What are we on, like, 300 plus executive orders? That's not how laws are made. And they're kind of like, oh, sure, go ahead. You know, like, embarrassing.
- [35:04]
Janessa Goldbeck
I lead a. Not a national nonprofit organization. Over the weekend, you know, there is this. Or over the last week, there's been an intense amount of fear about an executive order coming out that would potentially strip organizations of their 501c3 status. That's the tax exempt status that allows donations to organizations to be tax deductible. And it is likely to. You know, the idea is potentially that on Earth Day, he's going to designate a bunch of climate groups as either terrorist organizations or say that, you know, climate's not real. Therefore, if you have a charitable status and you're a climate Org, that's going to be revoked totally outside of the bounds of legality. Like, there is a process for stripping organizations of their 501c3 status. It's through the IRS, it's long, it's arduous, there's places for repeal. But he's going to issue this executive order. Most likely it's going to cause this huge hubbub, and every elected member of Congress or at any level should have the courage to at least stand up and say, hey, actually this is the law. But we've seen with executive order after executive order after executive order, these guys just roll over. And I just, you know, I guess I knew that people in Congress were self interested, but I didn't have. I guess I thought there was like a little more self interest that they were not this craven. It's just been so insane to watch this. And I don't know, man, I just cannot believe how what a whimper our democracy seems to have gone out with that. There is just not any sense of courage from folks who, by the way, I disagree with fundamentally on almost every issue. But I just thought that they would have, you know, they've wrapped themselves in the flag for so long that I thought there would be a little more allegiance to our Constitution and just.
- [36:47]
Unknown
Yeah, or even just self preservation. As if their own children, you know, don't need education. You know, if you get rid of the Department of Education or you get rid of all of higher education is if we don't need to have clean air and clean water that we're gonna drink. As if their family members don't need a planet that's livable or you know, research into cancer or ALS or whatever we were doing at the NIH or cdc. Like, as if we don't need food to eat that doesn't have listeria or E. Coli. Like they live in this country too. So you would think there'd be some form of self preservation to some of the decisions they make. And perhaps there will be at some juncture, you know, where they're like, this is a bit too far for me. I mean we really only need a couple of them the way the Congress is set up right now. But it is quite shocking how docile.
- [37:37]
Lee McGowan
This entire group is.
- [37:39]
Unknown
It's just embarrassing. You know, I keep thinking though, like, ah, you know, I know that it goes beyond Congress, it goes beyond the President. Right now we're looking at things that go beyond the military, right, Because I know that there are organizations like Blackwater, right, which is run by Betsy DeVos brother, that they already have a $25 billion plan to come in and act as like an extra military force in this country that will be paid by taxpayer money to basically act outside the law. They already have this, like I said, $25 billion plan to mass deport 12 million people before the 2026 midterms. And they are proposing these processing camps on our military bases, these private fleets of planes, even small armies of citizens which we know will be militia and people completely loyal to Donald Trump who just cannot wait to be violent against civilians. You know, when do we get to start shooting them? People are going to be deputized to act against us and work through a completely different separate chain of command. Right. So those kind of things really alarm me. And, like, is the military thinking about those extrajudicial groups, those extra military groups that might come in and. And take over as well?
- [38:57]
Lee McGowan
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- [39:42]
Unknown
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Lee McGowan
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- [42:35]
Unknown
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- [43:53]
Unknown
Quince.com politicsgirl is the military thinking about those extrajudicial groups, those extra military groups that might come in and take over as well?
- [44:04]
Janessa Goldbeck
Yeah, I mean, this is the whole like, trajectory of this administration, a patrimonial state. Right. So an executive that uses the levers of power to skirt the rules and enrich their friends and allies and like literally the military is, is problematic for Donald Trump and Pete Hegseth because there are so many rules and there's so many people in it who are ethical and who have sworn an oath to the Constitution. So just go around them. It's the same thing they're doing with the VA. You know, at the VA, they are pledging to cut 80,000 positions from the Department of Veterans affairs to bring it back to 2018 staffing levels. Well, why, why? What's 2018? Why 80,000? So in 2022, the Biden administration signed into law the PACT act, which expanded health care to veterans preemptively. A lot of people think that if you served in the military, you automatically are in the va. That's not actually true. You have to apply to be in. You have to demonstrate that you have a service connected harm or disability or some sort of health care issue.
- [45:06]
Unknown
And so, and it's already, it's already understaffed. Like people are, our veterans are already waiting like way too long to get.
- [45:13]
Janessa Goldbeck
Service, you know, and so when the PACT act was signed a law in 2022, hundreds of thousands of people enrolled for the first time. And so the population who is served by the VA has expanded significantly. They want to cut all these positions. Why do they want to do that? Because they want to give, they want to actually take those out of the public sector and give them to the private sector. They want to privatize the services being offered and study after study shows that that VA health care, when it's privatized, drastically diminishes in quality of service and increases in price to the taxpayer. So it's not about the veteran, it's not about efficiency, it's not about any of that. It's about enriching private healthcare companies further. And Donald Trump's friends and allies, same exact thing with Blackwater or any other private company that they're going to bring in to try to do an essential function of government. They're going to say, oh, this will be more efficient. Bullshit. That is going to be way more expensive to the American taxpayer, but their friends and allies will get more money. And so that is like the overriding animus of this entire administration. We need to see it that way. You know, I think Bernie Sanders and AOC are on the trail talking about oligarchs. I hope that that's translating to folks who are, you know, maybe not, not necessarily like super paying attention to politics, but at least this idea that they are picking your pocket to enrich themselves. And none of this is about efficiency or saving you money. I mean, have the price of eggs gone down? Do you feel safer? I certainly don't. And my economic outlook is pretty grim right now based on what's happening with tariffs. So again, like, public opinion still does matter. And I think we need to be able to name what's happening, which is they are literally robbing us every single day and not just robbing us of our actual hard earned dollars, but of our, our constitutionally protected freedoms.
- [47:00]
Unknown
Yeah, yeah, that's a good way of looking at it. It's not just our money that they're taking from us. It's the things we took for granted that we didn't have to pay for, like our right to a free trial and innocent until proven guilty and that we couldn't be just thrown into a van on the side of the road. You know, like these are things that we didn't, we weren't paying cash money for, but we took for granted that belong to us and should not be taken from us. And I think that's the thing that we should be thinking about right now. Like, you know, if I was reading a political strategist and her name is Anat Shanker Osario, and she defined three strategies for public pressure, which is what you're talking about. Like, we can't stop fighting back should Trump use the Insurrection act against us. And what she said was refusal, resistance and ridicule. And I think it's a really interesting way of Looking at it because, like, refuse, like refusal would be on behalf of people like the military, you know, who just say, like, I'm not going to, if you put me in Chicago, an active military member against a National Guard member, I'm not going to fight. I'm not going to shoot this National Guard member. Like, I can't do it. I'm not doing it. So there's the refusal, then there's resisting, which is of course through protest and not being afraid and speaking up and speaking back. And I think one of the most powerful tools we can use against a want to be strong man is for them to look, look weak and to feel weak. And humor is a great way for that. I think ridicule is what she's talking about there because I think that obviously violence of any sort at protests would be the quickest way for Donald Trump to come in and say, I have to take control of this. These people are out of control. You know, it's like what they did in Portland where they had actual cops breaking windows and they were saying, like, look how violent these people are. But it wasn't us at all. It's all kind of consistent, consistent with an authoritarian playbook, Right? This, this idea of violence in the streets allows them to swoop in, crack down on the people that they call terrorists or the problems. And then violence itself begets violence to the point where ordinary people start thinking like, oh yeah, maybe we need the military in the streets because this is really dangerous. And maybe we need them just to take order, but once they take order, they never give it back. And so I think those are the things we need to start thinking about. What do you think about that?
- [49:09]
Janessa Goldbeck
Yeah, 100%. I mean, they're looking for, they are looking for a reason to deploy the military domestically. And so, you know, I've heard this moment in time is interesting because I have made friends with a lot of folks who I am ideologically very different from on basically everything. But we both believe in a liberal democracy and liberal, you know, liberalism, not like necessarily progressive. Like we believe people should be able to have free speech and due process. And, you know, all of the things that we've been talking about that are really in jeopardy right now, even if we disagree on, you know, what they're talking about.
- [49:42]
Unknown
Exactly.
- [49:43]
Janessa Goldbeck
And one of the things that I've heard recently from my friends who are more conservative but, you know, are horrified about this administration is this idea that, you know, the left is planning like mass violence, like the, the hands off rallies are violent and, and There, there is a lot of research that shows that more and more Americans do believe that violence may be necessary as a form of dissent. But I would just caution people, you know, to study history in that regard. And I certainly feel enraged every day, and, and, you know, have some thoughts that are pretty dark. But very rarely does violent dissent turn into, you know, achieve the outcome that people want, which is a pluralistic liberal democracy that we have taken, maybe taken for granted too easily. And so I think it's really important that we don't give the administration that opening and that we are really disciplined. One of the best books that I've read recently is Alexei Navalny's autobiography, so he's the Russian Dissident. You know, doesn't. It doesn't end well. I'll just. Spoiler alert. But he writes mostly from prison about how he has built this movement to push back against the Russian regime and how he's organized people who live in a state where it is way worse than it is right now in America, where fear is so predominant, and how they have still managed to organize people to do courageous things, to speak up, to show that there's dissent. And he writes with such humor to your, your last point. He's so funny. And it just really inspired me because I think we can get into this doom spiral of, like, it's horrible, this is terrible, this is the worst, and there's nothing I can do about it. And that's the point. That's what they want us to feel. They want us to feel nihilistic, that there is no recourse, that nothing matters. But things do matter. You know, public outcry around the deportation of somebody who committed no crime, who was here lawfully, who is now in one of the worst prisons in the world, a US Senator going there, sitting down with him, talking with him, humanizing his story, that matters, that breaks through. And we can't just throw up our hands and say nothing matters, because one and a half percent of the people who voted shifted the electoral tide. There are a lot of people in this country who didn't vote for Donald Trump, didn't vote at all. Actually, more people didn't vote in this country, voted for either candidate. And I think, like, if you're being real about what a society is, what our commitment to other humans is, yes, you can be mad that people didn't vote or they voted a way that we would, you know, have cautioned strongly against. But at the end of the day, these are our friends and neighbors. And like, I believe we owe it to each other to continue to speak out, to fight back, to have courage, to find that humor, to. To be examples to our friends and neighbors. Because there are so many people who don't have that privilege or that ability, and we do. And so this is really up to us what happens next. And it might feel like we have no power at all, but there are people in places in the world that have way less than we do. And we still have our voices.
- [52:53]
Unknown
Yeah. And Senator Van Hollen didn't go down.
- [52:55]
Lee McGowan
To El Salvador because we didn't care.
- [52:56]
Unknown
He went down to El Salvador because we showed that we cared. And he's back on the Sunday shows yesterday talking about trial. He's like, look, I'm not. They're like, aren't you going to feel bad if you find out he was an Ms. 13? And he's like, I'm not vouching for his character. I'm vouching for the fact that he has a right to a trial. Yeah. That's what I'm there for. Right. And I think also if people are going into the streets, I want you guys to keep in mind, like, document everything. Right. Videotape your interactions, have a camera on you, maybe for your own protection. Video evidence can be invaluable down the line in court cases or for helping make people aware of what's actually happening, or for outrage or for instilling outrage. If things are happening, you know, if there's someone there that's trying to make, you know, violence happen and they're not with your group, that there's some. Some sort of footage of that. That kind of stuff is really important. I think it is really important that individuals realize that they're not powerless. That as a group, we are very powerful. I keep thinking, like, when I watch these town halls and, you know, you have this one person dissenting and they're being dragged out by their hair, and I'm like, why doesn't. Why don't 40 people in that room stand around them and be like, they have a right to speak? Like, this is their First Amendment right. Because those cops aren't going to do anything if there's 40 people standing up for them. But they're easily dragging out one person. Like, I would like to think that if I saw someone being thrown into a van, I would have a whole bunch of people making sure then say, what has he done? Where's your warrant?
- [54:15]
Lee McGowan
Where's your this?
- [54:16]
Unknown
Because if the people start standing up as a group, I really think we have far more power they're like, God, they're not just taking this. They're not so terrified that they put their head down and look the other way. They're not going to take this right now because the longer we let this go down the road, the worse it becomes. We have to know our rights. If we are interacting with, you know, out of control militia groups, if we are interacting with military on our street, because often soldiers, and I'm sure you know this, they don't know the constitutional rights. They're trained to fight overseas, they're not trained to fight here at home. Right. So if the Insurrection act is ordered, I do think that rushing to the streets will likely backfire right away. We should take time to plan and do the right thing, not necessarily the fastest thing. But I think we need to be like, really clear that Trump is itching.
- [54:59]
Lee McGowan
To use the military.
- [55:01]
Unknown
He thinks that, you know, any protest that threatens him or his power, he does not want. So I would say marching, chanting, signs, all good. Any altercations, you know, property damage, provocation, violence, bad. Right. Don't give him any excuse to deploy force on us, because that's exactly what he wants. But that doesn't mean we shouldn't still be out there using our voices. Right? Like, it's incredibly important. And then when it comes to, like, what you were saying about the ridicule about Navalny being funny, like that's the thing, like, it's not that it's not fair, it's not right, it's not constitutional. These are all true things that we should say. But in some ways, it is nice to bring people in using humor rather than tuning people out using anger. And I think humor is such an important thing to, you know, make fun of these people and how ridiculous they are because they hate it. And it also makes them less untouchable. And I think that's so essential. Now, before you go, can we just talk about your opinion on this ridiculous $90 million military parade that Donald Trump wants to throw for himself on his 79th birthday on June 14th. Because I think we should remind people that the majority, as you're saying, of us voters did not vote for this man. A majority did not vote, but certainly the majority of us taxpayers did not vote for a giant hundred million dollar military parade down our streets. So it's just a massive waste of money to throw him a dictator themed birthday party. And we're already paying for those golf trips every weekend and the UFC fights. So I think this is insane. What do you think? As an ex military member oh my God.
- [56:37]
Janessa Goldbeck
Completely absurd. Just like, ick, just gross. Also, like, if. If you've served in uniform and you've ever been part of like a formation. So every time, like, there's a change of command ceremony, there's a big formation, there's all this, like, you know, know it's called drill. The way that folks move and march and you've probably seen people walk in precision formations that takes tons of time to rehearse. And it is miserable. Like, I cannot tell you the number of times I've been in a formation where a service member has just passed out because they've been standing with their knees locked in the North Carolina heat for too long. So not only is the spectacle and the cost absurd, but the actual time involved with like, coordinating all that rehearsing, all of that would just take thousands of service members out of their day to day jobs to like, practice parading for a. Would be authoritarian. I mean, the whole thing is patently absurd. We should talk about it ad nauseam because it is such a ridiculous waste of money and time and just, I mean, truly pathetic. Like, this is just like the most, like, I don't know, like you're 50, you just got a divorce and you bought a sports car. Move. It's like, oh, you want to show the world how strong you are.
- [57:50]
Unknown
Oh, cool, bro.
- [57:51]
Janessa Goldbeck
Wow. Cool.
- [57:53]
Unknown
I'm pretty sure Eisenhower was like, yeah, we don't do those military parades in America. That's something they do in like the ussr like that. If you're not powerful, that's when you have a military parade. Like, that's what he said. And I was like, yeah, bro, 100%. This is way too much.
- [58:07]
Janessa Goldbeck
I mean, this guy is. He worships Putin. He thinks that, like, North Korea is a great country. I mean, these are like the, the people he looks up to are authoritarians who display their, you know, comically display their military might while actively undermining, by the way, the readiness of the military. And I just, I mean, we should absolutely not let it stand that we should talk about it. And you know, there is a. I will mention there's an event coming up in D.C. right around the same time as this planned military parade. It's called Unite for Veterans. I would encourage folks, if you are a member of a military family, the granddaughter of someone who served In World War II, a supporter of veterans, it is going to be a massive showing of veterans in Washington, D.C. marching on the U.S. capitol will just say, this is not normal. We do not consent to this, and we will not let it stand. And we will not let our name as veterans and military family members be dragged into this administration's horrific authoritarian policy.
- [59:04]
Unknown
I feel like that's on the Washington Mall. I want to say June 6th or something. AM I making that? Is that right?
- [59:09]
Janessa Goldbeck
Yeah, I think it's June 6th.
- [59:11]
Unknown
Yeah.
- [59:11]
Janessa Goldbeck
Yeah.
- [59:12]
Unknown
Because I was looking at it too and I was thinking, oh, my father in law is a veteran. Like, like, you know, my, my, my husband and his family moved all around the world, you know, with the military. They're, they're very, they're like, you know, stars and stripe family, you know. And I was like, they should be at that.
- [59:25]
Janessa Goldbeck
Yeah, I'll be there.
- [59:26]
Unknown
Everyone should look into it. Unite for veterans. Anyway, thank you so much for joining us to janasa, before you go, please tell people how they can follow and support your work.
- [59:35]
Janessa Goldbeck
Excellent. Well, thank you so much for having me, Liz. Always such a pleasure. Always. The organization that I am, am a part of is called Vet Voice Foundation. We're national. So if you are, it's not just veterans, it's military family members, it's supporters. Please go to our website, vvfnd.org, we're on all the socials and we just hope that you'll get involved. The other thing that I'll mention is we're the 501c3 nonpartisan arm of a group called Vote Vets which is a giant organization working to elect left of center veterans and military family members at every level of politics. If you are thinking about running, please reach out to us. If you are looking to support someone who's running, please reach out to us. We'd love to get involved because it's not just about advocacy in the streets, it's also about winning elections. And we know that both things are incredibly important.
- [60:22]
Unknown
Yeah, incredibly important. And we have a bunch of vets who are now coming out to run for Senate this year and you know, really different kind of characters and I'm just thrilled to see them out there. So we need to support them as much as we can. Thank you so much for joining us. I really appreciate your time and giving us some perspective on the military right now in this sort of terrible moment that we're living through. But I love the idea that the public opinion still matters, that we need to still be speaking out because that's I think what people hesitate to do. And I think it's really important to hear from you who's like a soldier to tell us that, that the public, us, civilians, it still matters what we're saying because at the end of the day, they are robbing us. And it's not just of our money through things like Doge, it's of our freedoms and the things that we have all always counted on as Americans. So thanks so much for joining us today, Janessa.
- [61:07]
Janessa Goldbeck
Thank you, Lee.
- [61:09]
Lee McGowan
So that was Janessa Goldbeck reminding us that we are being tested, that should the president invoke the Insurrection act, it would be awful but lawful. So we, the public, have a responsibility to keep pressure on our elected officials, on leadership and on the public's mind to not take such a drastic step. There is a reason that Kristi Noem and Pete Hegseth are hesitant to give the word to use the military against us. And it's because we are paying attention. Donald Trump might want those strongman visuals, but those around him are not ready to commit to the blowback. We need to keep that pressure up. We have to keep reminding people that what they're doing is so unpopular. As Janessa said, they are robbing us not just of our jobs and our dollars, but of the freedoms and institutions we have built our lives around. I want to thank Janessa for joining us today and you for caring enough.
- [61:59]
Unknown
About democracy to be here.
- [62:01]
Lee McGowan
Now go check out uniteforveterans.org and stand with our vets as they march for our freedoms on June 6, days before active duty military might be forced to march for our president's ego on June 14. Let's make sure that one event is far more inspiring than the other. Until next week. Peachy.
- [62:20]
Unknown
Out.
- [62:21]
Lee McGowan
Before you go, I just want to say if you're a premium member of this podcast, thank you for your support. And if you're not a member, please consider being a patron of my work. We are almost completely overwhelmed by state supporting legacy media and propaganda at this point. So it is essential those of us out here still bringing you the facts have backing. So if you aren't a member of Politics Girl Premium, please consider going to politicsgirl.com and signing up. You will get this podcast ad free, along with my rants and bonus content sent directly to your infl. So even if my work is silenced on social media, you will still get access to the truth. There is a link to sign up in the bio of this episode, but also@politicsgirl.com and as always, please like and share this podcast so we can grow our audience. Because the more people who have access to this kind of information, the better. As always, thank you for your time and support. The Politics Girl Podcast is written and performed by me, Lee McGowan, in partnership with the Midas Media Network Network, and produced and edited by Happy Warrior Entertainment. All rights reserved.