The PoliticsGirl Podcast: "Freedom For ALL? A Conversation with Professor Alex Zakaras"

Host: Leigh McGowan
Guest: Prof. Alex Zakaras, University of Vermont
Date: November 4, 2025
Podcast Network: Meidas Media

Overview

This episode tackles the current crisis in American democracy, focusing on how the idea of "freedom"—long the centerpiece of American political identity—has been co-opted by those seeking to restrict liberty for many, and what it will take to reclaim and extend genuine, equal freedom for all. Leigh McGowan invites Prof. Alex Zakaras, author of Freedom for What? What a Liberal Society Could Be, to discuss the erosion of the American social contract, the rise of authoritarianism, structural inequalities, and the path forward for revitalizing liberalism and democracy in the United States.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Centrality—and Crisis—of "Freedom" in American Politics

• Introduction to Freedom as a Political Value

  • "Whoever manages to win the struggle to appropriate and use this idea [freedom] more effectively is likely to win the political argument." – Prof. Zakaras [00:00]
  • McGowan notes the word “freedom” outranks even “America” for many, though freedoms are being restricted in its name.

• Misunderstandings and Appropriations of 'Liberalism'

  • Zakaras clarifies the academic vs. popular meanings of "liberalism":
    • Academic: A broad tent from Reagan to FDR, focused on personal freedom and institutional safeguards (independent judiciary, free press, democratic institutions).
    • Popular: Equated with "the left," which distorts the tradition and opens it to attack. [02:01–03:48]

2. The Rise of Anti-Liberalism and Authoritarian Threats

• Liberal Consensus Eroding
  • "It's really in the last decade or so that that consensus has started to unravel. The leading threat…has been the rise of a sort of militant populist, anti liberal Right." – Zakaras [04:19]
• Strategic Long-Term Planning
  • McGowan highlights how right-wing groups (Federalist Society, Heritage Foundation) have spent decades stacking the courts and planning to reverse civil, women’s, and LGBTQ rights – exemplified by the overturning of Roe v. Wade. [08:27]
• Anti-Intellectualism and Attacks on Expertise
  • Zakaras: “We’ve seen in this administration a kind of extraordinary attack on expertise...This is a classic part of the strategy that authoritarians employ.” [09:57]

3. The Failure of Neoliberalism and Entrenchment of Inequality

• Shift to Market-First Neoliberalism
  • Zakaras: The Reagan-era turn prioritized deregulation, privatization, shrinking government—even infiltrating the Democratic Party under Clinton. [13:19]
  • This amplified inequality and reduced social mobility, laying the groundwork for current instability.
• Structural Racism and Inherited Disadvantage
  • McGowan: "The average wealth of Black families in this country is 1/10 the average wealth of white families...That's systemic." [14:39]
  • Zakaras details how accumulated injustices (GI Bill exclusions, redlining, disinvestment) created entrenched poverty, affecting health, education, and policing. [19:30]
• Colorblindness and the Liberal Fallacy
  • He critiques Supreme Court arguments for colorblindness, calling refusal to remediate historical injustices “an abdication of the fundamental liberal aspiration to realize freedom for all.” [20:00]

4. The Broken Social Contract and Oligarchy

• Fraying of Economic Security
  • “Inequality is as high as it’s ever been…Wage growth has stagnated for working class Americans…economic mobility has dropped. If you’re born poor in Denmark you’re more likely to make it into the top [income] quintile than in the US.” – Zakaras [21:49–22:39]
  • Americans tolerated some inequality because they believed in upward mobility—now increasingly a myth. [24:50]
• Rise of Oligarchic Power
  • "Unequal power is a more fundamental problem. It lies upstream of unequal income and wealth...The richest Americans are just in control." – Zakaras [31:25]

5. Countervailing Power: How Do We Fight Back?

• Rebuilding Organized Labor & Political Participation
  • Zakaras: The US now has only ~10% unionization. “Organized labor has really atrophied; this prevents workers from bargaining collectively and earning fair wages...It also has really undermined the political power of working people.” [31:56]
  • Suggests revitalizing unions, supporting new forms of collective action (Debtors' unions, renters' unions), and reforming hollowed-out parties.
• Money in Politics
  • Both agree Citizens United and the influx of billionaire funding has corrupted both parties and government accountability. [35:33–38:14]
• Popular Support for Progressive Solutions
  • Despite the gridlock, Zakaras finds hope: “There are opportunities to be seized here. Right. Americans don’t like the levels of CEO pay...They want big money out of politics.” [38:14]
  • Advocates running on popular left-populist ideas: higher minimum wage, universal healthcare, pre-K, money out of politics. [39:50]

6. Radical Liberalism: Returning to True Freedom

• What Is Radical Liberalism?
  • Three pillars:
    1. Take human equality seriously – extend freedom equally to all, focus on those with least.
    2. Embrace a “robust idea of freedom”: “Freedom, the kind that's really worth having, means the power to make choices...Having access to healthcare, childcare, affordable rent—these expand your options and empower you to shape your life.” – Zakaras [41:51, 43:30]
    3. Rebuild grassroots citizen power—essential to resist oligarchy and extend real freedom.
• Community, Solidarity, and Civil Resistance
  • McGowan and Zakaras celebrate Americans’ resilience: mutual aid, peaceful protest, and rejection of attempts to provoke violence to justify authoritarian crackdowns. [44:16–46:38]

Memorable Quotes & Moments

• On the Weaponization of ‘Freedom’:
  • “We’re watching so many freedoms right now being taken away in the name of America. And you think, well, this is completely antithetical to how the country was supposed to be functioning.” – McGowan [03:48]
• On Systemic Wealth Inequality:
  • “The average wealth of Black families in this country is 1/10 the average wealth of white families...That's systemic.” – McGowan [14:39]
• On the Oligarchy:
  • “We hear a lot about unequal income and wealth in this country, but in many ways unequal power is a more fundamental problem.” – Zakaras [31:25]
• On Radical Liberalism:
  • “Radical liberalism takes the idea of human equality seriously...It embraces a robust idea of freedom—the power to make choices—and insists on building grassroots citizen power.” – Zakaras [41:51; 43:29]
• On Community Hope and Resistance:
  • “People, American people, are rising to the occasion... filling up food banks, buying people groceries ... helping each other out in ways I don't think this government was prepared for because they're such a cynical group.” – McGowan [44:16]

Key Timestamps

• 00:00 – The centrality of “freedom” in US politics.
• 02:01–03:25 – Dissecting the meaning of “liberalism.”
• 04:19–05:18 – Threat of militant/populist anti-liberal right.
• 08:27 – Decades-long right-wing planning to roll back rights.
• 09:57–11:18 – Anti-expertise, anti-intellectualism, and attacks on institutions.
• 13:19 – Neoliberalism’s rise: Reagan to Clinton.
• 14:39–19:30 – Systemic racism and its economic consequences.
• 21:37–24:50 – The broken social contract, stalled mobility, and rising oligarchy.
• 31:25–35:33 – The need for and path toward countervailing (citizen) power.
• 38:14–39:50 – Seizing opportunity: economic populism and policy ideas.
• 41:29–43:30 – Defining “radical liberalism” and the true promise of freedom.
• 44:16–46:50 – Community resilience, peaceful resistance, and hope.

Takeaways

• The struggle over the meaning and legacy of “freedom” is the battleground of American politics.
• Neoliberal policies have amplified wealth and power disparities, fraying the social contract and trust in democracy.
• Equal freedom can’t exist without redressing systemic inequalities and building grassroots power.
• Real hope lies in community solidarity, revitalized labor and political organizations, and bold, inclusive progressive agendas.
• Radical liberalism aspires to translate the ideal of liberty into material reality for all, not just rhetorical flourish.

*For more, check out Prof. Alex Zakaras’s book:
Freedom for What? What a Liberal Society Could Be
Available from Yale University Press and booksellers everywhere.