← The PoliticsGirl Podcast
Loading summary
Transcript77 lines
- [00:00]
Yasmin Raji
We want to just be with the people that we love and not just be sort of like replicating Twitter conversations at dinner tables. And I think the only way through that is not to again, sort of like, pretend like we don't disagree on plenty of things. We are a very divided country. But to spend more time rebuilding the muscle of listening, rebuild the muscle of curiosity, those are muscles that have atrophied. And I think if we don't hear that exhaustion in people, we are gonna continue the same mood of politics that no longer resonates. It resonated just in a very different way, in the very different moment that was 2018, when we thought Trump was an aberration. We were angry about him. We thought he'd go away. And here we are all these years later, and he has taken over the entire Republican Party. And now our.
- [00:58]
Lee McGowan
Hello and welcome to the Politics Girl podcast. I'm your host, Lee McGowan. Let's get into it. It's a tough time to be a moral, empathetic, patriotic American. It's heartbreaking to watch the cruelty and lawlessness on display, from ICE officer raids.
- [01:12]
Corey
To murders in the Caribbean. I'm not sure if you caught that.
- [01:15]
Lee McGowan
Cabinet meeting the other day with all the absurd, sycophantic bootlicking, but it was hard to watch.
- [01:21]
Corey
Did you know that blowing up 10.
- [01:23]
Lee McGowan
Boats filled with random people, Donald Trump saved a hundred million lives? Well, according to his Cabinet, he did. Because apparently one third of the American population is overdosing on cocaine. But by destroying a handful of small outboard motor vehicles, Donald Trump became our hero. We just have to ignore the fact that he pardoned actual, proven narco terrorists, one serving 45 years and the other serving two consecutive life sentences without a second thought. Nothing makes sense anymore. And it's hard to get your head around. Which is why we have to keep.
- [01:55]
Corey
The shenanigans in our periphery and be.
- [01:57]
Lee McGowan
Aware of everything that's going on because. But focus on the things that we can actually do beyond yelling at our.
- [02:03]
Corey
Phones or throwing up our hands when.
- [02:05]
Lee McGowan
People ask how we are to talk about a concrete thing that we can do. Things that are being done, how to fight back, how to make change. To add to the list of people refusing to give up. My guest today is Yasmin Raji, the executive director of Swing Left and the newly launched Ground Truth. Over the years, Swing Left has become one of the largest drivers of grassroots volunteers and donors across the country. I have done a lot of work with them myself, and it is an incredible organization. But Yasmin and her team are out here taking ambitious steps leading up to 2026, and I wanted to talk about it so that you knew about it and we can support it. So Yasmin and her team have launched Ground Truth, a multimillion dollar pilot program in swing districts designed to fix how Democrats connect with voters and tackle some of the biggest problems Democrats face as they head into the midterms. These are things like voter mistrust, too narrow or too late out, outdated tech tools, bad voter data, and things that really keep campaigns removed from the people. This program is a big bet, but I think it's a really smart recognition that Democrats can't keep doing the same thing and expecting different results. It is a new way to connect with voters, built around the simple idea that before Democrats can persuade, they must listen. So without further ado, let's hear from the woman herself about the program that she has created to meet the moment executive director of Swing Left. And now Ground Truth is Yasmin Raji.
- [03:30]
Corey
Welcome back, Yasmin.
- [03:32]
Yasmin Raji
Thank you so much for having me. It is always a treat to be here with you.
- [03:35]
Corey
Oh, thanks for coming. I mean, honestly, I. First of all, you know that I love you. I love what you're doing at Swing Left. But one of the things I was saying in the introduction was that Ground Truth is built around this idea that before Democrats can persuade anyone, they have to listen. And sadly, that feels like something the Democrats haven't been so great at over the years, particularly in leadership. So how are you guys going about that? What inspired you to take this kind of of ambitious step beyond the amazing work you were doing already with Swing Left?
- [04:06]
Yasmin Raji
First of all, thank you for that framing and thanks for having me on. Such a big fan of the show, so it's fun to actually get to be on it. A quick background on Swing Left, which I think is important context for sort of why we are doing this program and why we share your belief in the importance of listening. For listeners who aren't familiar, our goal at Swing Left is a very simple one. We exist to direct volunteer time and grassroots dollars towards winning the most competitive elections in the country in service of our consistent North Star goal, which is building lasting majorities because we know that we cannot make any kind of progress without power. And so what that means is from day one, when we launched in 2017, on the eve of Donald Trump's first inauguration, we've always been ruthlessly pragmatic. So that means we only engage after Democratic primaries and we only focus on electing the Democratic nominee and either re electing an incumbent or defeating a Republican. And that means that we welcome people across the ideological spectrum, people from all over the country who share that commitment to winning and whoever the candidate might be in its place. And so with all of that, we know we have to win. And that means that we also need to be really honest about what hasn't been working. And one of the things that hasn't been working, not just in 2024, but it's sort of like it's been brewing for a long time, is structurally, we as Democrats have not done enough work to listen. And when you don't listen, we know this in our private lives. When we don't listen, we lose trust with people, whether in our personal relationships or in our politics. And so if we want to rebuild that trust, we first and foremost need to listen. And, you know, I think for, for us in those most competitive races, that means we. We need to build different infrastructure and different incentives. That means that our Ground Truth program is a program to equip anyone in the country, whether they live in a swing district or not, whether they need to schlep for an hour or so to get to one, to go out early, earlier than campaigns have ever gone out, to go and listen to voters. And that means listening to voters who share all of our beliefs, who agree with us on everything, and more often than not, listening to voters who we don't agree with and listening to them, not in a Pollyanna way of isn't it so great to listen to one another and so on and so forth, but because in order to win, we have to listen to understand people more, and we've got to then create more fertile ground, not just to convince people to vote, but to convince people what Democrats stand for and why voting for the Democrat in their swing competitive district is in their self interest and aligned with their values and so happy to talk more about the program. But that's the overall vision of what we're doing.
- [06:51]
Corey
Yeah, it's a really good overall vision. And I think that's why a lot of people who are Democratic voters have been so irritated with Democratic leadership, because it really does feel like it's not just that they're not listening to the voters, they're not listening to the people who are most engaged in their program. Like I look at an election like what happened in New York with Mom Dummy, and the voters were saying, you know, this is what we want. We want affordability, we want common sense. We want practicality. We want this end to Billionaire profit over regular people's prosperity. And Democratic leadership couldn't even get behind that. You have the biggest Democratic primary turnout ever in that city, particularly with young people, particularly with young men, which is a demographic we are keeping told we have to get behind because they're being red pilled constantly. And yet leadership had such trouble endorsing him. And I was like, what is the problem here?
- [07:44]
Lee McGowan
And I think it was because it.
- [07:45]
Corey
Goes back to what you're saying. They're not listening. They're not listening to what the voters are asking for. The voters are asking for fighters are outraged. They want their vote to count. They want to not be gerrymandered out of power. They want health care and bodily autonomy to be protected. And if you're out here talking about reaching across the aisle or what Hakeem Jeffries just did, where he was, you know, saying, let's give credit to Donald Trump for his border policy, when we are watching actual concentration camps being built and communities being terrorized, it feels like there's a real disconnect and we can't carry on like that the way we've been doing it, because it's disconnecting us from our own voters who all have the same drive to make this country better, to hold on to democracy, who believe in pluralism, who believe in multiculturalism. And, and I always say, you know, like, this isn't shade on Democratic leadership necessarily. It's not personal. You know, like, you could be an amazing boxer. You could be the best boxer that there ever was, but the game has changed, right? We are now in a UFC cage, and if you cannot take a kick to the face or give one, it's not your game anymore. The rules are different, and you either fight back or you're going to get beat. And Democratic voters are really tired of being beaten by horrible people with horrible ideas.
- [09:08]
Yasmin Raji
You know, the UFC example that you gave reminded me of something I learned really early in my organizing career. It's from a book called Seeing Like a State. And it's basically a description of how in national, whether organizations, politics, whatever the case may be, governments, you can have some of the best ship captains who can sail across the oceans. And this is all obviously metaphorical, can sail across an ocean better than anybody. They have the best training, they have the best education, they have the best whatever. When that ship comes to a dock and needs to get to the dock, you have to hire a local ship captain to get on to the boat, because they know that over here there's a rock, and over here the wind hits the boat in a certain way and it doesn't matter what your general expertise is. You need that specific local expertise. And the reason I bring that up is to your point on, the game has changed. It both has changed and it hasn't in the sense that some of the basics, we've kind of lost. Some of the fundamentals are lost from what we prioritize. And one of the most fundamental things is you've got to, if you want to win an election, you got to understand your district. And you know, Pennsylvania's 8th congressional district is very different from, you know, the congressional districts in California. I mean, it's sort of like, it's so obvious. But I think what for me, in the 2025 elections, which give us both so much hope, and I think also some cautions of are we actually focusing on the right things because 2025 results were so different from 2024. You know, there's not a lot that Mamdani Spanberger, Mikey Sheryl, candidates for the Pennsylvania Supreme Court have in common. Right? They're ideologically different, regionally super different. But I think the common thread is candidates who showed rather than told people that they were listening. And that meant localizing those big national issues to their districts. But also I think embodying a feeling of urgency, which is like, that's what people are telling us. I mean, for us, the top issue is we've been out in very diverse congressional districts all across the country. Some incumbent Democrats, some challenger, you know, some suburban, some rural, some urban, you know, all the different districts. The most consistent thing across 25 canvases that we did from September through just a couple of weeks ago was actually not an affordability conversation. It was this feeling that the system is broken. And I think whether you have a moderate candidate or a progressive candidate, an insider or an outsider, if you don't get the urgency with which people feel like, as you said, they want a fighter. But what does that even, what does that mean? Right? They're not actually, you know, I think there's some, there's some interesting research of people are not looking for someone who's yelling the loudest. They want someone who like gets what they're going through and is gonna actually get things done for them. And so that means that we also need to be in listening to people. And we found this, our volunteers have found this in all of our door to door conversations with Ground Truth. We've gotta be able to hear people when they say, yeah, the Republican Party is shit. But also it's not like Democrats have clean hands either. And I think if we pretend like everything is great, Democrats are perfect, everything, everything, then it actually is a sign that we are not hearing the urgency with which people want the system to change. And, you know, I think to your point earlier of swing left, we are ruthlessly pragmatic. The only ticket out of this mess is the Democratic Party. So this is not there is to your. To use your language, we are not throwing shade at the concept of the Democratic Party. We've got to work on fixing the brand. And all of us have agency in that. And I do think so much of this moment, how people are feeling is like, man, the problems of this moment are so big and they are so sort of deeply rooted. Who am I to fix them? Right. If the leaders of the Democratic Party can't fix these problems, who am I as someone who works full time or someone who's working two jobs or someone who's a mom or whatever the case may be? And I think part of what we are trying to do with ground truth is open the door for everybody who feels that way to have some agency. And you don't have to be a seasoned political or policy expert to be a great listener. And that is fundamental to the past of rebuilding trust in the Democratic brand. And listening does mean hearing some uncomfortable truths and being open to that and being open to actually hearing them.
- [13:29]
Corey
Right, Right.
- [13:30]
Lee McGowan
It all comes back to listening.
- [13:31]
Corey
Right. Understanding what the people need so you can really address their needs, not just in your campaign, but hopefully in your time in office. Like, I think about what the Republicans are offering now when they talk about, you know, house prices and how we can't afford it, they're like, you know what we'll do? We'll just do 50 year mortgages. And I'm like, are you kidding me? Like, there's not a single person in America that's like, you know what we should do? Add 20 years to my mortgage payment. Like, how about don't let private equity buy single family homes so they can jack up the prices in all of our neighborhoods and keep us from owning anything. Like, Donald Trump is now talking about giving money directly to the people so we can negotiate on our own behalf with pharmaceutical companies and hospitals. And I'm like, are you kidding me? Like, with what leverage does a regular person have any power to do that? Like, talking about universal health care at this point is exactly what people need. Because they're like, wow, is our medical system not completely screwed up? We need protections, we need help. This is what People are talking about when you speak to them. And I love that you are sending people out. And that's what we should talk about. Like, I think we should really talk about ground truths, pilot projects, because you said you did it from September until just recently. And I want people to understand what you did, to try something different, to try a new way of doing this, so that you could really go to people's doors and really, really build back this trust in the Democratic Party. So talk me through the pilot program and what you've learned and what you're going to do moving forward.
- [14:55]
Yasmin Raji
Yes. So the vision with Ground Truth, as we've talked about is to do a better job of listening in service of building trust. And that means that we've also got to make a bunch of technical fixes of. We've got to both think about the timing of building on the ground organizing in districts, which often happens a couple months before an election. We started in September in swing congressional districts. We've got to think about the technology of. We have very old technology as a Democratic Party that limits and disincentivizes us from doing the things that we need to do with listening, which is, you know, if your only goal in technology is to. On the sort of the data that a campaign is tracking is hit as many doors as possible, you're incentivized to talk to people for 30 seconds because you got to get to the next door. If you want to rebuild trust, that means you've got to really talk to people. And I don't remember a really meaningful 30 second conversation I've ever had. Right. So we have to rebuild some of the technology to create different incentives around depth of conversations, depth of listening and being able to track. When you have a deep conversation, you can't just check a box and say, this voter just cares about the economy. What is the economy? The economy is a million different things. The economy to me is a different thing as to you, et cetera. And so new technology that can actually capture the sort of qualitative, nuanced insights of the idiosyncratic ways that people talk about issues. And I'll explain a little bit what we mean. And then the third. So it's organizing earlier, different technology and then richer ways of capturing and sharing data. So what does that mean? Is when our canvassers go out, they go out and talk to every voter, they knock every door, anyone who's listening, who's canvassed. Before you knock one door, you skip three houses, you go to the next one based off of Our assumptions of who are the likely Democrats in a given neighborhood. Right. And there's a lot of assumptions baked in there that are also based off of we're only going to have two months to talk to people, so we only got to talk to the lowest hanging fruit, et cetera. We're talking to everybody. When our volunteers go to the door using new technology, they are knocking on the door to the voter and saying, hi, I'm a volunteer with Ground Truth, which is a program to help Democrats do a better job of listening. The voter is like, what? What is that all about? My favorite volunteer, excuse me, a voter responded with a better job of listening Democrats. Have you heard the story of Sisyphus? And I just, like, started cracking up right from the beginning.
- [17:18]
Corey
And then, just so people know, in case you don't know the story of Sisyphus, Sisyphus pushed a giant boulder up a hill every day just to have it roll back down to the bottom so he could do it all over again. It's a classic Greek myth about, like, doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result.
- [17:35]
Yasmin Raji
Exactly, exactly, exactly. So we are. We are doing something new, expecting, hopefully a totally transformative result. But the second. The question that we ask after that framing is we say, how do you feel about the direction of our country? And again, we're saying this to Republicans, we're saying this to Independents, and we're saying this to hardcore Dems and the Dems that we are losing, which, as you said up front, we are losing a lot of the people who we used to depend on either to staying on the sofa instead of voting or not voting for us at all.
- [18:04]
Corey
Tell me that question again. How do you feel about. What did you say?
- [18:08]
Yasmin Raji
The direction of our country? And I think the reason we've chose that kind of broad question, and I'll share a little bit of kind of what we've learned in the responses to it, is that the head of Catalyst, which is one of the big Democratic data firms, something that he said that has really resonated with me is sometimes the way that we ask voters questions. Feels like if I were to say, hey, Lee, can you tell me what's your monthly copay on your healthcare and what exactly are you getting out of it and exactly which hospitals are within your network and which ones are not, sort of like, oh, my God, how much do I pay in my co. Pay? I can't remember. Oh, my God, I should know that. And we feel guilty of like, oh, my God, I should really know what my health insurance is, but I don't. Then we're embarrassed and we're whatever. And so we just kind of shut down. And a lot of the ways that we engage voters is we ask them something equally complex that they feel like they should know the answer to. How do you feel about the economic policies of your current congressperson? And it's like, who's my congressperson? What are their economic policies? Like, what am I? Like, I don't. What am I supposed to say?
- [19:08]
Corey
No, you're going to people's doors and making them feel like morons. That's ridiculous.
- [19:12]
Lee McGowan
So we're coming into the holiday season and this is when we get dressed up. You might not feel like getting dressed up right now because everything feels so depressing, but I think people are really going to need celebrations this year and part of that is what we wear. This is why I want to talk to you today about Honey Love. Whether you're driving a car to visit your family and you need a comfortable bra for the long day, or you're having a fancy New Year's Eve party with all of your friends to ring in the new year and you want to have a snatched little body while you do it. Either way, Honey Love can help you out at the end of the day. Quality holiday outfits start with the right foundation. Honey Love bras and shapewear give you the comfort and confidence you need so you can sparkle around your holiday party knowing that you look amazing or stay cozy and comfortable all day long. Like if you don't want to spend your time tugging on some bra or having underwire dig into you as you become one with the couch, then you're going to need Honey Love's Cloud Embrace bra which is a super soft wireless T shirt bra with lightly padded cups that feel like a cloud against your skin. I will say that this bra sells out all the time, so if you do want one or you want to put one under the tree or in a Hanukkah box, now is the time to pick one up. Honey Love is an independent female founded brand whose products are intelligently designed by women. Women who actually wear them, including their founder Betsy, who is very involved in the development of each and everything they sell. So treat yourself or someone you love to Honey Love this holiday season. Right now you can save 20%@honeylove.com politicsgirl just use our exclusive link honeylove.com politicsgirl to grab your discount and after you order, if they ask you where you heard about Honey Love, please support our show and let them know we sent you. Celebrate the season feeling confident in and comfortable with Honey Love. Don't forget Undie bundles can make a terrific stocking stuffer. The holidays are here, which means it's time for comfort, joy and really good food. But that doesn't necessarily mean you have the time to cook at all. Which is why I love my sponsor, CookUnity. For a limited time and in select CookUnity markets, people can get festive holiday favorites like old fashioned glazed holiday ham or the ultimate holiday turkey dinner. I am personally going to order their maple whipped sweet potatoes because I can never quite make sweet potatoes right. CookUnity's chefs take meal prep off your plate with healthy and delicious dishes. Impress your relatives, even the judgy ones, with gourmet holiday meals from CookUnity. CookUnity meals are delivered to your door fully cooked and they heat up in as little as five minutes. They have a roster of all star chefs, including Food Network alumni, James Beard Award winners, acclaimed restaurateurs, and every small batch is delivered fresh and not frozen. You get nutritious, delicious meals made by top chefs that are ready in minutes.
- [21:49]
Corey
You can go on their app.
- [21:50]
Lee McGowan
You can sort by chef, by protein, by cuisine, by dietary needs. You can even filter macros down to the gram. If you are one of those people, and I am married to one of those people, I know how important it is. It costs way less than restaurants or takeout, and with grocery store prices the way that they are, it often costs less than the grocery store. They have a rotating seasonal menu with over 300 meals updated weekly. New chefs are always joining the team, so you're never going to get bored with repetitive meals. Everything comes in an insulated bag that CookUnity will pick up as part of their eco friendly reusable bag program, which I think is amazing because I often feel so bad with these delivery food services because so many of them make so much garbage. The whole thing is a commitment. Free subscription that starts as low as $11ameal. You can skip deliveries, pause or cancel whenever you want. Get taste, comfort and craftsmanship in every bite. From the award winning chefs behind CookUnity. Go to cookunity.com politicsgirl or enter the code politicsgirl before checkout to get 50% off your first order. That's 50% off your first order by using the code politicsgirl or going to Cook Unity.
- [23:01]
Okay, so the Politics Girl podcast sponsor True Classic is one that's totally worth checking out. True Classic started with a very simple mission to bring premium comfortable clothing to the masses. Because they felt that looking and feeling great shouldn't have to come with some designer price tag. We're talking about classic crew neck T shirts, comfortable jeans, Henley's, all without the ridiculous prices that we're seeing now. Recently, my husband has been living in his True Classic black crewneck sweatshirt and he loves it. And this is a guy that would choose double RL or James Pierce if he could. There is a reason True Classic has sold over 25 million shirts to more than 5 million people and earned more than 200,000 five star reviews. It's not just about great fabric and fit. It's about helping you show up every day looking and feeling comfortable, pulled together, confident without breaking the bank. The clothes fit where they should and they feel good. You get a polished look without sacrificing comfort and blowing your entire holiday budget. So maybe this holiday season, skip the stress and the overpriced designer stuff and try giving True Classic. You can find them at Amazon and Target and Costco and Sam's Club. Or you can just go to truclassic.com politicsgirl and find something for everyone on your list. I would really suggest that crewneck black sweatshirt. So update your wardrobe and save@truclassic.com politicsgirl that's true classic.com politicsgirl you're going to.
- [24:25]
Corey
People'S doors and making them feel like morons. That's ridiculous.
- [24:28]
Yasmin Raji
Exactly. Exactly. Which is how I think in. Part of the hard truths is we as Democrats too often have made people feel stupid and that is moving them away from us. So we ask, how do you feel about the direction of our country? Any human being in the United States, including probably like small children, can answer that question. And for most people, they have really strong opinions. So what that leads to is 2/3 of the people who are answering their doors end up talking to our volunteers for more than 10 minutes. Oftentimes it's more like 15, close to 20 minutes. Right. What does that mean? Is we are learning a lot about those folks. Our volunteers are asking probing questions. What do you mean you feel like your community has been left behind? What do you mean that you think, you know, both parties suck equally and you're not sure what Democrats stand for besides being anti Trump? Those are the kind of probing questions that any volunteer is capable of asking. And again, 2/3 of those conversations are so rich that they're going for more than 10 minutes. Our volunteers have reported back again on the sort of tactics of this and why it feels so different from regular canvassing that they really feel like, the person that they're talking to is hungry for more connection and talking. Right. We can analyze that of social isolation and people are really disconnected from institutions and all sorts of things. But what it means is we can't just talk at people. We've got to actually ask them for their perspectives because they're hungry to share them. They have real, meaningful, expert perspectives. Then what happens? Our volunteer walks away from that door. If it's a really dense neighborhood and they're still standing a couple feet away from the door, they might type out their responses of this is what I talked about with this voter. But most of our volunteers walk away from the door and they hit record on our canvassing app. When they hit record, they repeat back. The way we describe it is like a doctor would describe a patient visit for their notes. Nonjudgmental, no editorializing, don't put words in their mouth. And also don't talk about, ugh, this person was, ugh. They talked about this and that. These are the things that they talked about. They feel really passionately about Donald Trump and they feel really confused about, you know, what he is doing for them, whatever the case may be. They have written handwritten notes throughout the way so they can any direct quotes, any things that they observed. Right. As I walked to the door, I saw a big flag saying, you know, I'm a Marine veteran. Those are things. Those are social cues. We can't see about somebody just on the Internet, but they might have that flag in front of their house. All those things. The canvasser is through either voice recording that turns into text or typing it out. If again, they feel uncomfortable doing that and what we do on the back end, I think this is the really important thing for what does this do to enhance the strength of the Democratic Party in those campaigns? We take all of that rich data. 10 minutes of conversation is a lot of data about somebody. I just lost my job. I'm worried about my kid. I want to get into community college, but I don't know how to do it. Whatever the case may be, all of that, we then use AI on the back end with human check because we know AI still has all the warts that it has. And we use that not to replace the human conversation, but to help make sense of it, both at the individual level of what are the things this person cares about, what are the feelings they have about the things they care about, but also in aggregate of in this congressional district. And again, our biggest takeaway across all our districts, the number one issue was a Feeling that the system is broken. That is a feeling that is not a checkbox issue that any campaign that we have seen has tracked. They track abortion rights, they track climate change, they track the economy. The system is broken as a feeling that demonstrates to us our second takeaway, which is single issue framing. It has its uses, but it's totally insufficient for figuring out how to persuade and reach voters. So I think that's the long and the short of tactically what this program looks like. And our vision is that we are have anybody who wants to help in this moment to win back power has the skills that they need with a little bit of training. They have it within them to be curious, to be thoughtful, and they should join us in this so that we can reach not just a handful of voters, but every voter that we possibly can in these districts and again, create more fertile ground for them. The campaign to do follow up, that is rooted not on what they think voters care about, but what voters actually said that they care about in the ways that those voters said that they care about those issues.
- [28:44]
Corey
Right. And what I'm hearing from what you're saying is a lot of different ways of approaching things, A how you're approaching people at the door, which actually appeals to people like me who don't do traditional canvassing because I don't like those little short conversations. If you find me at a party, I will have a, you know, two long conversations with two people about their divorce, you know, before I will talk to a hundred people for five minutes. I cannot stand it. So that actually appeals to me more to see, really hear what people are talking about, to really connect with my neighbors. But then instead of going, like you said, three doors down to the next potential Democratic voter, I go next door to the next voter in that neighborhood, whether they're a Republican, an Independent, you know, a Democrat, or even someone that's not even engaged in politics at all, which is probably some of the best people to talk to. But then you're using AI in a way that AI should be used, which is like, I've now given you all this information. Aggregate it for me. Tell me what the general gist is. Tell me what most people were saying from all of these different conversations that we have put into voice, text, or we have written down from all of these different volunteers. And tell me what you're seeing. What is the big picture idea here? And that is what AI is actually wonderful for. And then it's not just about reshaping how Democrats can win elections, but understanding this reality that we can't just build on what we have because what we have is broken. Right? We, we have to, in many ways, start from scratch. Not the politics from scratch, but how we relate to voters from scratch. Build the Democratic Party again, the ground up. Because the corporate Democratic Party is clearly broken. No one trusts them, which makes it so easy for our opponents, for the Republican Party to demonize us when our policies are actually much better for most people. Right. But when the trust is gone, then it's really hard to keep, you know, reminding people that you're actually out there fighting for them. So what it sounds like ground truth is trying to do is build genuine human connection again, to build a power structure that could lead to real and lasting majorities that are actually helping the people in dealing with the issues they actually care about. Not just for 2026, but beyond. Because there's so much that we have to fix and improve and that's going to take time. So it's sort of a long term planning goal, much like you're starting in September of the year before the midterms, instead of just peeling into a town, you know, a month before the election to be like, vote for us. And everyone's like, why? You know, don't do that. It's long term plan planning. It's leadership from the ground up. And I think that's what's so essential here.
- [31:23]
Yasmin Raji
You know, I couldn't agree more. I think that's a, it's an amazing summary. As usual. You summarize our work even better than we possibly can, which is why it's extra fun to be.
- [31:32]
Corey
But I like the idea very much.
- [31:33]
Lee McGowan
I like the idea very much because.
- [31:35]
Corey
I think this idea that, you know, the general consensus is that that the system is broken, that they are worried about American democracy in general. That's. That can be amorphous. It can be something that you don't know what to do with and that makes people shut down. And so we need to be like, all right, how do we address that? This isn't just a one issue thing. It's not a kitchen table issue. It's not the economy or affordability. It feels like everything's going in the wrong direction. What do we do next?
- [32:05]
Yasmin Raji
Totally. And I think one of the reflections that I had in reading our, we do surveys after each volunteer canvas, we debrief with our volunteers and we also see the data of what did they actually sort of, what did they experience and how did it look different with different demographics of voters. Takeaway number one is in a Moment when things feel so hyper polarized and again, so big and intractable, it can make us feel like we have no agency at all. And the contrast of that feeling and then what our volunteers experienced, which was one in three of the strong Republicans who would not have been on a normal canvas list because they are too strong of a Republican on their kind of support score in the data, one in three of those Republicans is disappointed with the Republican Party and is open to voting for a Democrat for the House. And the reason that is so important, everything can feel so insurmountably challenging in this moment when we are just in front of our computers and reading the news because there is a lot of very, very, very bad news. Right?
- [33:09]
Corey
Well, not to mention, you guys, it is, the algorithm is pushing totally way more worse news than good news. So you really do feel inundated and depressed and demoralized the more you scroll. Because that is deliberate.
- [33:24]
Yasmin Raji
It is all on purpose. And when our volunteers, when I myself go out and do a ground truth canvas, it's not like I'm like, oh, that just erases all the giant problems that I read about this morning in the news. But it does feel like voters are within arm's reach. The Trump administration not within arm's reach. Right. That is a very steep hill of the damage that they are doing to this country is going to take us not just winning the House, it is going to take us winning back the presidency, winning back the Senate, winning state legislatures and rebuilding for basically for a generation. There is going to be so much damage to cleanup. But when it comes to voters, humans are idiosyncratic and weird. Right? And humans who disagree with one another can still agree on some things. And one of my favorite stories from the recent 2025 Virginia election, one of the most competitive races is the House of Representatives for the state of Virginia. A candidate who had lost last cycle by something like 600 something votes, she won this time. And something that she said the weekend before the election. She told a story about someone who DMed her on Facebook and he said, you came and knocked on my door. We ended up talking for 10 minutes. You're really, really progressive. I am really, really conservative. We don't agree on a lot. And I wasn't convinced by the end of that conversation that we agree on a lot. But what I like about you is that you really listen to me and I trust you. And so I'm voting for you, even though we don't see eye to eye on a whole lot of issues, because I know that you're gonna fight for me. And that is, I think, like that makes me feel really hopeful. I don't think, you know, we, even within our own families, there's things I disagree with. My cousins, with my parents, with my husband, with my in laws policy issues we disagree on, we're always going to disagree on. But we see the world through similar values. And I think when we go out and talk to voters, it's not just that we feel like we feel better. We feel like things are within arm's reach. We can actually make some progress. But there's some awesome research that came out of. There's these two brilliant political scientists, Josh Kalla and David Brockman, who actually studied the effects of direct voter contact, not just on winning elections, but on the volunteer and on how they see politics, how they see themselves. And the long and the short of it is the more we go out and talk to voters, the more our own politics become more complex and more nuanced. Not like we shift ideology, but for me, I remember the first time I went and had deep canvassing conversations on the 2008 Obama campaign. I was a super progressive Bay Area born and raised, straight out of college, didn't really know much about politics person. And going out in rural Ohio and listening to voters who'd say in one sentence some of the most racist things I'd ever heard in my life. And in the next sentence, sure, I'll vote for Barack Obama, I think he'll fight for me. It just like it broke my brain and it helped me to become more complex in my thinking. It didn't change my beliefs. But to understand again, like, humans are weird. Humans have contradictory beliefs. We know that every piece of research tells us that. It's just, it's the world as it is. And in our politics, the more that we think about that, the more we actually can have hopeful imagination about material progress because we can persuade even people who have beliefs that we don't fully agree with. And that's okay. And that will. And again, if we take, if we keep reminding ourselves of that, then we can stay focused on again, our swing lefts philosophy is to be ruthlessly pragmatic because we have to win power. We can't just feel good about our own beliefs. If we don't win power, we can't actually make any kind of progress. And the more that we get, voters can be weird. That's okay. Then the more we can stay focused on. We've just got to get to the finish line of winning.
- [37:04]
Corey
Okay, so we're well into December, which.
- [37:06]
Lee McGowan
Means we might be coming up on last minute shopping and last minute shopping during the holidays is a real drag. You're running out of ideas. The stores are packed. Parking is a nightmare. Which is why I'm excited to talk about Aura Frames. Aura Frames is a great last minute gift idea because it feels thoughtful and personal and ultimately it's something the receiver can actually use. We often struggle with ideas for our parents, particularly if you have kids and you're in a totally different headspace than them. Their presents are great and yours are kind of meh. We have personally given Aura Frames to both my dad and Sean's parents. We have given one to Sean's grandmother. Yes, he still has a grandmother. She is 101 and she is awesome. Aura Frames let you share photos or videos from any device to the frame. You can just load the frame with photos before you give it as a gift and then update it and upload it with photos that you want to add anywhere and anytime. It's such a nice gift when you can't be together all the time to keep up with what's actually going on in your loved ones lives. Every frame comes packaged in a premium gift box with no price tag so it's ready to go. Aura displays photos in true color so they look like a photo and not a screen and they automatically adjust for the light level in the room. So at night when you turn off the lights, your frame also turns off to save energy and let you sleep. It takes about two minutes to set up using the Aura app and it's ready to go. So for a limited time, save save on the perfect gift by visiting auraframes.com to get $35 off or as best selling Carver Mat frames named number one by wirecutter by using the promo code Politics Girl at checkout. That's a U R A frames.com promo code Politics Girl this deal is exclusive to listeners and they want me to remind you that they do sell out. So order yours now to get it in time for the holidays. And when you're done, feel free to support the show by mentioning us at checkout. Auraframes.com terms and conditions apply. So Sean and I have had a Delete me account for a while. We were particularly pleased to have it back in September when there was a crisis in American politics and the government decided to blame left wing creators for something they had nothing to do with. Deleteme makes it easy and quick and safe to remove your personal data online at a time where surveillance and Data breaches are common enough to make everyone vulnerable. It was nice peace of mind to know that they were on the case. But you don't have to be a social media person to be targeted. Data brokers make a profit because your data is a commodity. Anyone on the web can buy your private details, which can lead to identity theft, phishing attempts and harassment. They can take your name, your contact information, Social Security number, home address, even the information about family members. And the they compile it and they sell it and no one wants that. There's a reason the New York Times Wirecutter has named Deleteme their top pick for data removal services. Sadly, this is just something we need to consider these days. So take control of your data and keep your private life private by signing up for Deleteme now with a special discount for our listeners. Get 20% off your DeleteMe plan when you go to JoinDeleteMe.com politicsgirl and use the promo code Politics Girl at checkout. The only way to get 20% off is to go to join DeleteMe.com politicsgirl and enter the code politics girl at checkout. That's JoinDeleteMe.com politicsgirl code politics girl.
- [40:26]
Corey
Oh, so we got a new sponsor.
- [40:29]
Lee McGowan
It'S Noble Travel and I have to tell you that Sean lost his mind over their all in one carry on.
- [40:35]
Corey
He was like, are you kidding me with this bag? This is a amazing.
- [40:38]
Lee McGowan
First of all, they've gotten rid of the zipper. This is a zipperless latch lock suitcase that closes like a safe. The two halves just come together with a tight seal that you can hear.
- [40:49]
Corey
And feel when it locks.
- [40:50]
Lee McGowan
Noble isn't just the safest luggage out there. They've actually thought about everything you need when you travel. The bag has a built in charging port to keep your phone alive at the gate. It has a full battery that goes in it. There's a front laptop pocket that makes going through security a breeze. It has a flip out cup holder built into the luggage. Total 360 degree wheels. An effortless roll. There is a reason over 12,000 flight attendants and pilots are already using it. TSA says it's even helping prevent theft and tampering. Noble's all in One Carry on is the durable, safe, advanced luggage you've always wanted. It comes with a 100 day money back guarantee and free 3 day express shipping. So if you have someone that has to travel a lot, this might be a really great gift. I'm telling you, my tech savvy husband was absolutely psyched about this. Bag Noble gives you real travel, peace of mind, security, design and convenience all in one. And for a limited time, Noble is having the biggest sale ever. Head to nobletravel.com for up to 58% off your entire order. That's n o b l travel.com for up to 58% Off. And after you purchase, when they ask how you heard about them, please support the show and tell them we sent you. Seriously, you won't believe how dope this bag is.
- [42:05]
Yasmin Raji
Noble travel.com the more that we get, voters can be weird. That's okay. Then. The more we can stay focused on. We've just got to get to the finish line of winning.
- [42:15]
Corey
Yeah. At the end of the day, you have to win. You can't change anything. You can't make things better for people. You can't do that unless you win. And like you said, this is going to be a generational fix. It will not be just like, we get back the house and then we can hold these people accountable. It's like we're gonna have to rebuild entire industries. I mean, they've basically shut down the Department of Education, the cdc, you know, the fda, the epa. Like, it's going to take us forever to rebuild our soft power, to make our allies trust us again. This is not a simple project that we're going to undertake, but it's the idea of starting early, of having real conversations, of not making it about turnout or persuasion. Persuasion, but really listening to people about what it is that they care about, who it is that they are interested in, what. What are their concerns, what are their fears? And I feel like, if I'm being honest, obviously you're trying to better understand and speak to the voters and their needs. But, like, I think the Republicans have been doing this for years in kind of a nefarious way. Like they. They tell people who to hate and be afraid of through channels like Fox News, Right? Then their politicians speak directly to the hate and fear that those voters have been listening to through their campaigns. And it doesn't even matter if they follow through with their promises when they get elected, if they keep feeding the fear and the hate beast.
- [43:38]
Yasmin Raji
Totally.
- [43:38]
Corey
It's like we said, we listen to you. You're afraid of immigrants. Now. They're afraid of immigrants because Fox News told them to be afraid of immigrants. We're hearing you. You thought that the 2020 election was stolen. Well, they thought it was stolen because Fox News told them it was stolen and then paid $780 million voters because they lied to the voter. Right? It's. It's a circular system, but the voters, the Republican voters feel seen, they feel heard, they feel like they're part of the group, and we need to do that on our end without the lies and the deceit. It's what Russia did on social media in 2016. It's what Cambridge Analytica did. It's what Meta does, and mining our information to target certain voters. What's Elon did in 2024 on behalf of Trump? You know, like, he was targeting voters with what they really cared about by sending flyers to one neighborhood in Pennsylvania saying the Democrats don't care about the Jewish voter at all, and then sending flyers to a different neighborhood next door saying the Democrats don't care about Palestinians at all. Like, that is targeted to what people care about. And that is what we need to do, but for good. I think it's really important. I mean, you said that two thirds of the people who are answering their doors are willing to talk for 10 minutes. Like, that is a long time. But that also gives you time to really connect and engage with people and build a real connection so that people say, you know what? The Democrats came to my door. They listened to me, they talked to my neighbor, they listened to me talk about how much I love Donald Trump. And they were like, I totally get it. But also, are you struggling financially? Because that is something we need to deal with with, you know, paid family leave or universal health care or these kind of things that they suddenly feel like, you know what? Like, I'm not. I was told to hate Democrats my whole life, but this person, it made it impossible to hate them. They were really listening to my concerns, and that's what we need to do. And correct me if I'm wrong, but the data seems very positive that what you're getting from your pilot project and what you plan to roll out later, it.
- [45:32]
Yasmin Raji
I feel really hopeful based on what we're seeing in the pilot, and hopeful.
- [45:36]
Corey
Because we need that, Yasmin. We need hopefully, bring us hope. Bring us hope, Corey.
- [45:42]
Yasmin Raji
You know, I think we also hope is it's a muscle. It's a muscle that we have allowed to atrophy, and we've got to keep on exercising that muscle. And so that's, I think, part of what I feel hopeful. It doesn't mean I don't have my doom spirals. We all do. But the more that we get out there and talk to real people, don't just sort of, like, read about our theory of people, the stronger our hope muscle becomes. But I wanted to touch on something that you framed around sort of like how the Republicans do some of this stuff much better than we do. I think that we sometimes are overly focused just on the solution frame and not really empathizing with how people are feeling and their problem frame. And I think that's where Republicans beat us. And I think a lot of people tune out some of the insane solutions that Republicans propose. Right. Like they're like, I don't really know, I'm not a policy person, like, whatever. But the Republican really gets what I'm going through. They get that I'm really freaked out about my kids mental health because there's a mental health crisis among teenagers. They really get that I'm struggling with my groceries and whatever. Look at that. Republicans, economic policies, they're going to do absolutely nothing for increased.
- [46:51]
Corey
They're going to make it worse. They are going to make it worse.
- [46:54]
Yasmin Raji
Right. But I think they do a better job of showing that they care. But I think like what I would say, I agree with you. There's a lot to learn from them. I think in the like, how do we replicate the positives and not duplicate the negatives? There's something kind of broader that has been really front of mind for me which is the mood of this moment is so different from 2018. Right. Like it is just, I think that's obvious. Like it's different in every way. But we continue to see, I hear this all the time here in Washington talking to colleagues and sort of folks from other organizations. We continue to believe that politics of this moment are all about the negative. That's why we invest a lot of Democratic races, invest overwhelmingly in sort of like 90, 95% on negative ads. When you look at sort of the ad comparisons, Republicans do a lot of negatives, do 60, 40 of 60% negative, but they'll do a lot more positive. And I say that because I think in the mood difference between now and 2018, I think people are just, and this is not just activists, voters. Everybody is tired. We are tired of being really angry. We are tired of being really divided. And that doesn't mean let's all go, you know, hold hands and sing a song. And now the divisions are gone. But like, you know, one of the.
- [48:10]
Corey
You don't want to sing Kumbaya with.
- [48:11]
Yasmin Raji
Me and drink a Coke. Exactly, exactly. Maybe, maybe after we win then and then we can hold hands and sing Kumbaya. But you know, I was really struck by one of our volunteers reported back on the most memorable conversation that she had again this was in Pennsylvania's 8th congressional district. She talked to a woman who is a veteran who was really freaked out about what it meant to have served her country and to see the kind of Democratic backsliding and looking like we are more and more authoritarian every day. They were having a pretty substantive policy conversation at the beginning, but very quickly the conversation shifted into this woman mourning over the loss of her relationships with her sisters because her two sisters were strong MAGA voters and she felt like she couldn't talk to her sisters. And she burst into tears talking to our volunteer about how much she misses her sisters. And it was this moment of, I think, reflection for our volunteer and also for me subsequently, of if we just keep on sort of escalating the sort of negative partisanship. Negative, negative, negative. Yeah, we can win some short term races, but we are not really meeting the mood of. People are tired, they want to be able to. I think we noticed, I noticed certainly a shift in how we all talked about Thanksgiving this year. We want to just be with the people that we love and not just be sort of like replicating Twitter conversations at dinner tables. And I think the only way through that is not to again sort of like pretend like we don't disagree on plenty of things. We are a very divided country, but to spend more time rebuilding the muscle of listening, rebuild the muscle of curiosity. Those are muscles that have atrophied. And I think if we don't hear that exhaustion in people, we are going to continue the same mood of politics that no longer resonates. It resonated just in a very different way, in the very different moment that was 2018 when we thought Trump was an aberration. We were angry about him, we thought he'd go away. And here we are all these years later and he has taken over the entire Republican Party and now our country. And so we've got to. We just need a vibe shift in how we do our politics to be able to maintain people's attention, interest, and also hopeful imagination for what else could be possible.
- [50:26]
Corey
Yeah, hopeful imagination is actually so essential. You know, it's interesting. I think people are surprised when Democrats show up at their door to listen rather than sell. And it goes back to the idea of curiosity rather than need, connection rather than transaction. Because I think most people, voters are not. They want to be seen, they want to be heard, they want to be understood. The fact that you are talking about a woman, that's like, yeah, you know, I've got a lot of feelings about the military and about how we're dealing with the policy. But, like, I miss my. My big sister, you know what I mean? And I can't talk to her anymore. That is a sentiment that is right across the nation right now. And I think that it's so essential for us to try something different. Before you go, tell me what you think the broader Democratic ecosystem can learn from your early results and what you found from this pilot program. Have you spoken to the Democrats at all? What's their feedback? Are they on board with this kind of change?
- [51:23]
Yasmin Raji
Yeah, I mean, I think what is structurally really exciting about this program is because of a new federal election rule, which I know is wonky, and most listeners are like, what the hell is a federal election rule? But a change in the rules of how we can do campaigns. Every single thing that we're doing with this Ground Truth program is coordinated directly with campaigns. So what does that mean? Is all the incumbent frontline Democrats, meaning the Democrats in the most competitive House races we are already sharing, this is what we're hearing. These are the people you should follow up with. They get all the data directly into their own databases. And the data that's more complicated, like the 15 minutes of qualitative data about what happened in a conversation, it doesn't fit into existing Democratic technology. So we summarize all of it in a kind of what looks like a polling memo so that those incumbents see kind of a social listening report out of what are people saying in their district so that they are plugged in with the mood on the ground, the substance on the ground. And then for the many races that we need to flip and defeat a Republican, we don't engage in primaries, so we're not coordinating with a Democrat on the other side. So we're waiting for those primaries to play out. But what we hear from the party committees, from our partners across the ecosystem, is gratitude for a campaign in waiting that is going out and talking to the Republicans, the independents, the squishy Democrats. We're not going to vote in the primary while all of the Democratic candidates in those primaries are just talking to Dems because they have to get across the finish line of winning the primary. And the reason that really matters is it's a gap in the party that everybody's been aware of, but there hasn't been the incentives to fill that gap. So in a place like Arizona, there's going to be a Democratic primary in August. Someone will win that primary. They've just spent months and months and months talking to Democrats. Democrats, Democrats vote in the primary, vote in the primary. Vote in the primary. They wake up in late August, and all of a sudden they're like, oh, I got to go talk to all the Republicans, all the independents. And in Arizona, they only have, like, a month before vote by mail voting starts. And so they've got one month to go talk to every single person that they need to persuade. That is bananas. So I think the support that we're getting from our. Both the candidates and also party institutions is this is a gap. We need campaigns and waiting, and this is a new federal election rule that makes something possible that wasn't before. So there's excitement about that.
- [53:47]
Corey
That's a group like you coordinating with actual campaigns where that used to be, like, there was a wall between the two, and you couldn't do that.
- [53:53]
Yasmin Raji
Exactly, exactly. Legally, we wouldn't have been able to share all of this stuff. So that is really, really exciting. And then I think, in terms of, like, what can folks learn from this? I really do think this is not like, we have cracked a sort of, like, giant thing that nobody's ever thought of. Everybody knows you need to listen more. You need to start early. Like, this is not. It's not rocket science. Right.
- [54:14]
Corey
People need to be heard. Stop talking down to them.
- [54:18]
Yasmin Raji
Exactly. Exactly. Like, wow, what a revelation. Right? But I think the difference. And I think what we. The incentives and the structures of our politics do not reward innovation, do not reward starting early. It just doesn't. They don't reward those things. So rather than sort of, like, beating our heads and trying to, like, convince people to do things differently, what we're excited about is we are doing things differently. We're doing it in a way that's going to benefit the party. We're doing in partnership with party entities. And our hope is that that is going to create different incentives so that candidates spend more time hearing from voters, more time not just reading the data, but following up with people, et cetera, et cetera. And our hope is that that will make them stronger in a way that'll look different in different congressional districts.
- [55:05]
Corey
Yeah, you didn't ask for permission. You're just doing the thing, and then they can capitalize on it later. I mean, you're such a. You're a hell of a leader, Yasmin. I'm so impressed with you. I mean, you really do such. I'm telling you, please tell people how they can be part of your new undertaking, how they can be a part of what you're doing, how they can help swing left, how they can help ground truth. And sort of really build a culture of listeners who connect with each other again.
- [55:30]
Yasmin Raji
Yes. Well, I hope any listener for whom this resonated will go to swing left.org ground truth. There they can both read more about the program and sign up to get involved. And they should do so whether they live in a competitive district or not. Most of us, even if we don't live in a competitive swing district, we live within a 90 minute drive of one, including those of us from places like I'm from the Bay area, live in D.C. within 90 minutes of competitive swing districts. In both of those, you in Los Angeles, you're within an hour of a couple competitive swing districts. So everybody can do that. And then, you know, depending on when folks are listening to this episode, we are having a large national supporter call where we will share more findings from this program. That'll be on Tuesday, December 9th at 8 o' clock Eastern Time. So they happen to listen to this before then. We hope that they will join us on that. And once again, go to swing left.org ground truth to get involved.
- [56:25]
Corey
Yep, that's today, the day the pod is dropping. But if they're listening to it later, they can just go to swingleft.org ground truth because I think what you guys are doing is exactly right. And I think think what we're told constantly is that we need community. And this is a way to build our communities back, to build our connection with our neighbors again and to really address what our government should be doing to help us. Because government can be a force for good if it's in the right hands. And we keep forgetting that because it's been in the wrong hands for so long now.
- [56:51]
Yasmin Raji
That's exactly right. And I think the first step, as you've rightly summarized, the first step is winning back power. And then we've got a lot of work to do, which is why building community is not just the strategic thing to do. It is the only way we are going to stay sane for the long fights ahead and to continue to have joy in these moments of tremendous heaviness as well. So excited to do that with you.
- [57:12]
Corey
Yay.
- [57:13]
Lee McGowan
Me too.
- [57:13]
Corey
Thank you so much for coming today, Yasmin. I'm absolutely crazy about your organization and and I just hope you have nothing but success.
- [57:20]
Yasmin Raji
Thank you. Likewise. And thank you for all that you do. And thanks to your community for being such action takers.
- [57:25]
Lee McGowan
So that was Yasmin Raji reminding us that hope is a muscle that we have allowed to atrophy. But having a hopeful imagination is essential to actual progress. The Democrats have to do a better job at listening and building trust if we want to not only beat this terrible government back, but rebuild something far better in its place. The most consistent feeling people have in this country right now is that the system is broken and it makes us feel powerless when we are not. So while the Trump administration might be impossible for us to get to right now, voters are within arm's reach and we can make a real difference by appealing to them. I want to thank Yasmin for joining us today, and you for caring enough about democracy to be here. If you're interested in helping this new program and you want to help ground Truth, really connect with our fellow Americans Again, go to swingleft.org groundtruth to find out more. As Yasmin says, we have to be ruthlessly pragmatic because we can't change anything if we don't win. We don't have to agree on everything, but we do have to agree that we deserve better than this. Until next week, PG out the Politics Girl Podcast is written and performed by.
- [58:35]
Corey
Me, Leigh McGowan, and produced and edited.
- [58:38]
Lee McGowan
By Happy Warrior Entertainment. All rights reserved.