Loading summary
Transcript34 lines
- [00:00]
Jocelyn Benson
Our democracy is not a given. It does require us, every generation, as John Lewis said, to stand up and fight for it. And we have to be willing to do that, if we have any chance at all, of ensuring that it survives and thrives in moments like this and beyond.
- [00:24]
Lee McGowan
Hello, and welcome to the Politics Girl podcast. I'm your host, Lee McGowan. Let's get into it. So, last week, Donald Trump had a rally for his hundredth day in office in Michigan. And as someone so rightly said, he loved it because he likes running for president more than he likes being president. But he didn't choose Michigan arbitrarily. He chose it because it's a true swing state, with him winning in 2024 and losing to Biden in 2020, and a shining example of what a state can actually look like when democracy works. And he would prefer it wasn't that way. So with Governor Gretchen Whitmer unable to run for reelection in 2026 because of term limits, I believe we're going to see Trump in Michigan more to start priming that audience to have a Republican take her seat. So today we're going to talk to Jocelyn Benson, Michigan's Secretary of State, responsible for the safety and security of their elections, and the leading candidate for governor of Michigan, as well as the author of the new book Purposeful Standing up for what's Right when the Stakes Are High, a book that Hillary Clinton called inspiring and John Stamos called A masterclass in badassery. I wanted to have Jocelyn on to talk about where she thinks we sit at this moment in American history and how we fight back when it seems like everything just keeps getting worse. She's doing it every day, and we can join her. So without further ado, please welcome my guest, Michigan Secretary of state, candidate for governor, and author of the Purposeful Warrior, Jocelyn Benson. Welcome back, Jocelyn.
- [01:46]
Jocelyn Benson
Hi, Lee. Good to see you. Thanks for having me.
- [01:48]
Lee McGowan
Oh, my God. Thanks for coming. I'm. I'm having you on for two reasons. I mean, probably three, you just wrote this amazing book about how to turn fear and frustration into fight. Two, you happen to be running for governor of Michigan to replace Gretchen Whitmer when she terms out. And three, because you're my friend, and over the years, I've really felt a real connection to you because I think we really share this sense of purpose and belief in the American experiment. And I think we can both say it's really on the ropes right now. Why don't we start by talking about your book? Right. The Purposeful Warrior. Tell us why you wrote it and what you hope it can do for people.
- [02:21]
Jocelyn Benson
Yeah, I started writing this book several years ago, really as a take. As my take on what it was like to stand up to a president in 2020 and protect the votes of Michiganders and really try to defend democracy against this unprecedented effort to undo the results of a legitimate, fair and accurate presidential election. And as I wrote it and told these stories, it evolved into a book about this through line I found throughout the stor of the power that we all have to define a better world, no matter what life throws at us, even in turbulent times, we all have that strength, that power within us to fight for ourselves, to fight for the people we love and the places we call home. The book ultimately is a call to action, which in a moment like this, became even more poignant because there's so much turbulence, chaos and confusion happening right now. And my hope is people will read this book and find that spark, that light within them, that power to navigate through this challenging, uncertain moment and joined the fight for a better world.
- [03:20]
Lee McGowan
Yeah, I mean, your book is filled with personal stories, which, of course, because you are quite impressive, are really good. I mean, you talk about your time investigating domestic terrorism, and I should tell people you were, like, undercover with white supremacists back in the day, becoming the youngest woman in U.S. history to lead a top 100 law school, running the Boston Marathon when you were eight months pregnant, because apparently you're a crazy person. You also talk about the bigger picture, you know, like how we can become our own warriors and how we can do that by standing up for other people, by calling out bullies when they are being bullies, by raising our voices and quite frankly, by having enough grit, which I think our nation is a little bit lacks on these days, to protect the essential things like truth and integrity and honesty and, you know, fairness and justice. The things that we're seeing kind of dissipate right now. And we think, well, wait a second, you can't do that. Well, they are doing that. So what do we do? Where do we find that grit?
- [04:15]
Jocelyn Benson
Yeah, well, it starts with realizing that, you know, as Eleanor Roosevelt said, no one can make you feel inferior without your consent. No, the power to define who you are or who we are. Even as a country only we have that power as citizens and as individuals. And even in challenging, uncertain times, we always have that choice, that power to decide how we will respond and what we will do to stay focused on furthering our hopes, our vision, and our values as we strive for A better world. So for me, it starts with recognizing what you can and can't control. And what you can always control is your reaction to every. And then doing that, you can craft a response rooted in staying true to who you are. And through that, find strength and focus and an inspiration to others to do the same.
- [05:06]
Lee McGowan
Yeah. You know, when I was first starting this project, when I first started the Politics Girl project, I would often be like, I'm not moving fast enough, or people aren't doing this. You know, you have all these aspirations that were based in, honestly, capitalism, in how we think things are supposed to go. And my therapist, who I love, she kept saying to me, what's your intention? Why did you start the project? Go back to that. Right. And for me, it was to educate and inspire people. So every decision I made was back to my intention to educate and inspire. Does this educate and inspire people? Like, it doesn't matter if it's not making money. That wasn't my goal. It doesn't matter if I'm not making this connection. That wasn't my goal. And when I kept returning to my own values, my own goals, my own intention. Yeah, I found it so much easier to do the work. And then the work did grow on its own because I knew why I was doing it. And I felt that that was such a helpful way of looking at things and think. Right now, as we're scared, you know, I. I think you can understand how conflicted people are feeling right now, how much anxiety is out there for those of us who are paying attention to what's happening. You know, watching these terrible things happen every day, it's hard not to feel powerless. But I feel like your theory is we're not powerless. Right. So talk me through that, because there are certainly days where I wonder, you know, I'm like, oh, Lord.
- [06:22]
Jocelyn Benson
Yeah, that's what. That's what they want us to feel. I mean, that is the. The heart of. Of oppression and autocracy, making us feel like our voices don't matter, like we don't have power. When the truth is, in a democracy and in life, we always have the power to decide what we're going to do with the path laid out for us. And as you point out, making that decision with a mission in mind, a purpose. I have a chapter in the book called Mission Driven. It's about just exactly as you described. How can you be a warrior on behalf of yourself, those you love, the communities we call home? It's by being mission driven, finding that thing that you want to have change as a result of you showing up. And oftentimes, the most powerful missions are rooted. And I talk about this in identifying other people whose lives you can improve as a result of you and the work that you're doing. And that's exactly directly aligned with everything you said and your purpose and what you're doing, because everything you do is driven by, am I having an impact? And is that impact improving other people's lives? And it can be defined in lots of different ways, but ultimately, that impact we have on other people can help define our own purpose as we strive to be a warrior for that purpose, even in turbulent times. And as we do that, as we find ways to further our purpose even in those challenging times, we then remind ourselves through those actions of our own power, because we experience that even if we don't believe at the outset that we have that power. Even if you didn't believe when you began this podcast, people would listen. You stepped forward anyway, furthering that mission, and then, you know, the path opens up, and here you are finding yourself to be a very powerful voice, even in this challenging moment.
- [08:06]
Lee McGowan
Yeah, I do think. And I do think it's helpful to focus on what your personal mission is, because then it does go out. It also doesn't feel so overwhelming. I think sometimes when we look at what's happening right now, we're like, am I supposed to fix democracy? Am I supposed to save the national parks? Am I supposed to save science? Am I supposed to. You know, and then you think, oh, my God, I can't do anything. I'm gonna go back to bed. Like, I can't. And I think the thing is, is that. Find the thing that most resonates with you. I know that, like, my husband does this project with me, and obviously he is deeply connected to. To this and to democracy and to educating people. But he's also a military child who grew up all over the world, military family, which I know you are also a military family. And he is absolutely passionate about our national parks. So the day that they started talking about drilling our national parks, cutting down forests, closing the parks, he literally was so inspired. He was like, I have to do something to sa parks. That was like, such a. Like. And it. It felt. He felt it deep in his bones. And I think of the people who are listening, if you're feeling that passion about one issue, you don't need to fix all the issues. Someone's going to feel that passion about women's rights or about the environment or about whatever it is. The thing that makes you feel a fire in your belly. Follow through on that, because you will put that passion into that thing. Does that seem right to you?
- [09:22]
Jocelyn Benson
Yes. Yeah. I think that especially at a time when there are so many different battlefronts that we could fight on finding yours, whether it's standing up for your kid and their ability to get access to quality education, or your parents who may need access to healthcare or other support, it could be a personal thing for you. Even just standing up to your boss in your workplace. It doesn't even have to be a policy writ large. But finding ways, big and small, to further your purpose, your power, and your mission helps you build that path as a purposeful warrior. And every step along the way, you'll find two things. One, your power, your strength is your grit, as you were asking earlier, that starts to grow, that bravery muscle gets strengthened. And as it gets strengthened, you start to see the challenge, the. The chaos, the. The turbulence of this moment as an opportunity for growth, for strength, for building resilience, for fighting back. And so if we can also get to a point where we're seeing challenges, even tragedies, as ultimately opportunities that can help us build a stronger purpose and strength in who we are, then you start to welcome, even sometimes, those uncertain moments that can cause turbulence in your life as an opportunity to get better. Take democracy, even writ large, for example. Everything we've gone through for the last decade on the democracy front, we're still fighting. But in 2015, no one really talked about the importance of the security of our elections and expanding the Voting Rights act and all the rest. Those were discrete circles. Now we all talk about and fight for. Democracy was one of the most important issues in 2022, when I was last on the ballot. So we have opportunities to either strengthen ourselves or the institutions we fight for in these challenging times. And if we learn to do that, then we can even embrace challenging times as an opportunity to get better.
- [11:14]
Lee McGowan
Yeah, sometimes you have to see the flaws to know that they have to be fixed. I think that's important. I mean, you were just talking about voting and voting security and things that people were never talking about before. I mean, you are still a current Secretary of State, right? So that is someone who's in charge of election integrity in char. Of protecting our votes. So, I mean, between you and me and of course, my audience, what are you thinking? Like, full transparency? Are we even making it to 2026 like fair, free and fair elections, let alone 2028? Like it? People are very concerned right now that the way we're going, we're all going to be rounded up on the street and there won't be elections and that's the end of it all. What are your thoughts on that? You might have been seeing a lot of ads on social media from your favorite creators lately talking about Delete me. So I'm just going to add to that list because I know all of us who are putting ourselves out there on social media right now are very conscious of how much of our personal information is available on the Internet. But we're certainly not the only ones who can be taken advantage of because it's easier than ever to find personal information about us online. Type your name into Google and see what comes up. It's scary. Our addresses, our phone numbers, our family members names, our children's names, all of those things are out there and there are major consequences in the real world should that information get into the wrong hands. Delete Me makes it easy, quick and safe to remove your personal information online At a time when surveillance and data breaches are common enough to make everyone vulnerable. More and more people who are partisan or nefarious are finding our data online and using it to target their political rivals, civil servants, anyone who might be outspoken or posting their opinions online. So take care of your data and keep your private life private by signing up for Deleteme now at a special discount for our listeners today. Get 20% off delete me plan by texting politics girl to 64,000 the only way to get 20% off is to text politics girl to 64,000. That's politics girl. One word to 64000 message and data rates may apply. This episode of the Politics Girl Podcast is brought to you by wildgrain. Now, you might have heard me talk about Wild Grain before, but Wild Grain is the first bake from frozen subscription box for artisanal breads, pastries and pastas. Their boxes are fully customizable, so in addition to their classic variety box, they also have a gluten free box and 100% vegan plant based box. The best thing is they take the hassle out of baking since all items bake from frozen in 25 minutes or less. These boxes are amazing. We make croissants over the weekends. Cookies. It's so nice to have a fresh box baguette with your pasta. Just fresh baked goods from freezer to table. So are you ready to bring all your favorite carbs right to your doorstep? Be sure to check out Wild Grain to begin building your own box of artisanal breads, pastas, and pastries. For limited time, Wild Grain is offering our listeners $30 off their first box, plus free croissants in every box when you go to wildgrain.com politicsgirl to start your subscription. Yes. Yep, you heard me. Free croissants in every box and $30 off your first box when you go to wildgrain.com politicsgirl that's wildgrain.com politicsgirl or you can use the promo code politicsgirl at checkout. Honestly, who doesn't want their home to smell like fresh baked bread? People are very concerned right now that the way we're going, we're all gonna be rounded up on the street and there won't be elections, and that's the end of it all. What are your thoughts on that?
- [14:42]
Jocelyn Benson
I think it's ultimately up to us. I mean, I started my career In Alabama, where 60 years ago, young activists stood on the foot of a bridge in Selma, marching forward into a sea of Alabama state troopers, to which point they were met with violence, tear gas, billy clubs. But they marched forward anyway because they believed in the promise of one person, one vote, and that constitution that is the foundation of our democracy. So just like they marched forward anyway, in that turbulent moment, we have to find the ability to do that as well, because history teaches us, whether it was 1965 or 1865 or 1919, with women fighting for the right to vote, our democracy is not a given. It does require us, every generation, as John Lewis said, to stand up and fight for it. And we have to be willing to do that, if we have any chance at all, of ensuring that it survives and thrives in moments like this and beyond. So it's really our call. The question is us, what are we going to do in this moment in response to what we're seeing and what has unfolded even in these last 100 days? And if we all choose collectively to be warriors on behalf of our democracy, we'll start to see a tide, a shift, I believe, towards 26 and 28. That can be a response, you know, if I, if I could go into a little bit more, think about 2016 now. In Michigan. In 2016, Trump won by 10,000 votes. The next day, a young woman posted on Facebook, does anyone do anything about this? What can we do? And it ultimately became a conversation to promote a ballot initiative to eliminate gerrymandering in Michigan and put citizens in charge of drawing their districts with that seed, with that question, can we do something? And something focused, not fighting everything, just something focused that grew into a movement to amend our Constitution in Michigan and put citizens in charge of districts. That's now in our law. And there's tozens of stories like that over the last 10 years where what happened in 2016 didn't define us or our democracy. What we did next did. And so in this moment, after the November 24 election and the turbulence we've seen in these last hundred days, the question is really on us. What are we going to do? And history teaches us, when we choose to fight, when we choose to organize, when we choose to focus on an issue and push forward like warriors and furtherance of it, we can succeed. And that's really our call and even our opportunity in a moment like this.
- [17:04]
Lee McGowan
Yeah, I mean, I think that's where we're at right now. Because, honestly, it is hard. Sometimes I feel like I'm losing my mind. Like, every day feels like a fresh new injury. You know, I was just thinking about the Republicans on the House Judiciary Committee just voting against due process for deportees and for it to be legal to deport US Citizens, Right. Like that is insanity. Right. Like you let a law school. Right. You let a law school, you know, the law. How can you deport a U.S. citizen from the United States? You're not sending them back to their home country. You're removing them from their home country. That's not deportation. It's kidnapping and human trafficking. Like, that's where we're at, right? So, like, as someone who knows the law as well as you do, how do you see this lawless behavior and the ignoring of the Supreme Court and what we're doing right now?
- [17:52]
Jocelyn Benson
It's all about building the muscle to react to these things by saying, what am I going to do? In response to make sure this doesn't happen? Now, we have structures in our nation and in our state that allow for checks and balances. The federal courts, of course, are center stage right now in responding to and sorting through these political leaders in the executive and legislative branch who are in many ways tearing apart the Constitution and the very foundation of who we are as Americans. So you have the responsibility of the federal courts now more than ever to really stand up. But in addition to that, in a system like ours, with federalism, every single one of our states has its respective court system, its respective executive and legislative branches. And for me, that's why governors and governor races in moments like this are going to be so critical, because states can push back on an overreach and extremism of what we're Seeing at the federal government now and protect citizens, work even with other countries to do so and other states to provide regional support and strength and develop ways to, within our own structures, push back, protect our citizens and respond. You know, we've got our own courts, our own police force, our own legislatures, our own constitutions. And so I think you'll see in moments like this, states start to step up as powerful vehicles for pushing back on an overreach at the federal level.
- [19:12]
Lee McGowan
Yeah, I think people are going to learn a lot about federalism coming up. I think that's the thing. It's that we don't realize when people talk about states rights, states rights, you know what I mean? It's always been sort of a back burner thing, but now we're really seeing the importance of the rule of the governors, the governors protecting our own rights. You know, the American Republic itself is built on this idea where our states have a lot of individual power. We're not actually set up for a dictator, despite what the Republican Party on the federal government is allowing right now. Because you can see that blue state governors can really hold the line if they want to. And while some are really failing to meet, the moment I look at people like J.B. pritzker or Governor Mills of Maine, and I think, yeah, you know, give me more of that. Bring that fire. Right. Your ability to compromise on behalf of your people is not the same as being compromised. And I think that's the kind of governors that we want to see right now. So, like, I'll ask you, you know, like, what made you decide to run for governor? Because you're the clear front runner in the 2026 race in Michigan, which is very smart of your state, I might add, because you are clearly an incredible advocate for Michigan when. When you were Secretary of state, which people don't know if you don't know. In Michigan, the Secretary of State is not just in charge of the elections, they are also in charge of the dmv, which is sort of like a peculiar thing that happens just in Michigan. And when Jocelyn came in as Secretary of State, she looked around at the dmv, which we all know in all of our states, the DMV is a disaster. When none of us want to go there, it's like a horror show. Jocelyn looked around at the dmv, at her state, and she was like, okay, this is making everyone miserable. They're all waiting for hours. This is terrible. What can we do about this? And then you actually went and did something about it. Like you changed the dmv. Dmv. So now people don't even wait like more than a half an hour. There's kiosks, places where they can update their licenses. You, you did that for your state. You said, where's a problem I can fix? How can I make this practical? And then you did it. And now you want to do that as governor for the whole state to fix problems that you can see and you can actually make tangible change to.
- [21:10]
Jocelyn Benson
Yeah, because again, it gets back to that mission we were talking about earlier. How are you, pound for pound, every day showing up to make a difference in other people's lives. Lives. Whether it's your kids, whether it's your parents, whether it's your family, whether it's your community, or whether it's people you haven't even met. And so what I love about service is that if you're driven by a desire to just make others lives easier, you can really repurpose government in that vein. Every day, waking up to say, how can government save you time? How can it make your life easier? How can it cut costs and save money? I think Democrats in this moment can redefine the purpose and role of government to be squarely focused on making people's lives easier. And I've seen the benefit of doing that as, yes, the chief motor vehicle Officer of the state of Michigan, which, yes, makes me very popular. Any dmv and. Or if I say that, people roll their eyes. And it's true. When I started in this office in 2019, we had seven hour wait times. I went to every single office and I was appalled by what I saw. But I went to work because I knew, particularly in the private sector, that a lot of these problems had already been solved. We just had to bring those best practices to match our data needs and capacity in Michigan. And that's exactly what we did. We restructured how we serve people so you don't take a ticket and wait, but you schedule your visit ahead of time so that we can be ready for you when you get there with exactly what you need to get in and out and on your way. And for many people, in fact, 50% of people who are going to the DMV, when we started this work, didn't have to go to the dmv. So we put more services online and in kiosks and grocery stores to just get people out of those offices, offices and enable them to more easily access these government services. A big philosophy is meeting people where they are. So we launched mobile offices as well. So that if there's festivals or senior centers or homeless shelters that we can show up to and handle transactions there, it gets people out of our branch offices and it also delivers efficient services to our citizens. All of these things have been in place by private entities, the customer service entities like Apple or even some of our energy providers. So it was really also just seeing what was working elsewhere and bringing it here and then demonstrating that proof of concept, which I think governors can, can essentially do right now in the Democratic Party and writ large to say, I'm not just going to talk about making your life easier and the need to do that. I'm going to restructure things to promote efficiencies, to eliminate red tape, to cut through bureaucracy and make your life easier. And here's the proof of concept. So when it comes to redefining the role of the Democratic Party moving forward, a lot of it's gotta be rooted in how are we pound for pound, making people's lives easier and then standing up unequivocally protecting people's rights and safety when they're on the line.
- [23:49]
Lee McGowan
Yeah, absolutely. I mean, that's the thing. You know, my book, you. You blurbed my book. But the sixth principle in my book was government can be a force for good. And I think people have forgotten that, that government really should be making our lives better. They shouldn't be making our lives worse. And I was, you know, I was at an event recently where you were speaking, and someone asked you a very specific question about how to deal with the housing crisis and in your, your state. But also, it is a, you know, it's a national problem. There's this shortage of housing, and how do we deal with it and what do we do with it? And you had this very real answer, not this platitude kind of politician answer. And you were like, we need to cut down on the bureaucracy. We need to get rid of this red tape. We can do this kind of building. And it was other. It was such a specific answer. And you had really thought it through, much like you did with the dmv, like, let's get these things to festivals, let's get some kiosks. Let's do like. You had a thinking about it that wasn't like, yes, everybody deserves housing, and we will work on that. You had, like, plans. So what are the other things that you would love to do as governor of Michigan? It wasn't until I was a mother that I really understood the importance of celebrating Mother's Day. As I was saying a couple of Weeks ago when I was a kid, I asked my mom why there was a Father's Day and a Mother's Day, but there wasn't a Kid's Day. And she told me that every day was Kids Day. And now that I'm a mom, I. I totally get that. It doesn't matter if it's a new mom, a long term mom, a mom with kids out of the home if we can. I think it's important that we recognize the moms in our life this Mother's Day. Unless she makes your life miserable, then forget it and buy something for yourself. The place I am recommending you shop for your mom is Quince. Quince is an online company that sells everything from clothing to bedding, but who partner directly with top factories to cut out the cost of the middleman so they can pass the savings directly on to us. They do everything from cashmere sweaters and gold jewelry to Italian leather bags and fragrances, but all for 50 to 80% less than similar brands. I have a boat neck cashmere sweater from them, a really cool oversized linen shirt. There's a dress I want to get that I think will be great for the summer. Their quality is amazing and the cost literally can't be beat. Plus, Quince only works with factories that use safe, ethical, responsible manufacturing practices as well as premium fabrics and finishes. So even if you don't need something for your mom, maybe get something for yourself. I know you will find something, but I also know you won't be at a gross amount of money at a time where people are really struggling to have enough thoughtful, timeless, high quality gifts. Shop for Mother's Day at Quince. Go to quints.com politicsgirl for free shipping on your orders and 365 days of refresh returns. That's Q-U-I-N-C-E.com politicsgirl to get free shipping and 365 days of returns. Quince.com politicsgirl this podcast is sponsored by MDHearing. MDHearing makes high quality, easy to use rechargeable hearing aids with exceptional sound quality that are personalized to your hearing profile. With these ridiculous tariffs, everything is just going to get more expensive. But if you need a hearing aid, that's not something you can put off. Which is why I'm pleased to tell you that MDHearing recently cut their prices in half. Maryland Hearing was founded by an ENT surgeon who saw how many of his patients needed hearing aids but couldn't afford them. So he made it his mission to develop A quality hearing aid that everyone could afford. MDHearing has now sold over 2 million hearing aids and they offer a 45 day risk free trial with 100% money back guarantee so you know you can buy it with confidence. People that use them call them simple to use, durable, better than hearing aids they've had which cost 10 times the price. And as someone with older people in my life who already have hearing aids, I can attest that they are not only necessary but a fortune and very often not covered by insurance. So get the high quality, affordable hearing aids you deserve with MDHearing. Go to shopmdhearing.com and use use the promo code Politics girl to get a pair of hearing AIDS for just $297. That's over 90% less than in clinic hearing aids. Plus they are adding a free extra charging case $100 value just for listeners of Politics Girl. That's shopmdhearing.com and use our promo code politicsgirl to get a pair of hearing AIDS for just $297. So what are the other things that you would love to do as governor of Michigan?
- [28:08]
Jocelyn Benson
I want Michigan to be a top 10 state for education. We cannot attract the best businesses in our country to set up shop or grow in Michigan if we don't have a pool of talent in our state. And we cannot have a pool of talent in our state if what? Number one, our most talented people are leaving the state upon graduating from college. And number two, our education system, our public education system is ranked in the bottom 10. So for me, as the daughter of two public educators, special education teachers, as an educator myself who ran an educational institution at a young age, I know how important it is to make sure educational opportunity is real for everyone. And I want to really take on that to deliver results for everyone in our state.
- [28:46]
Lee McGowan
The states are really beta tests. I live in California. Often when something works in California, it goes out to the rest of the country in many ways. I look at something like Oregon and they are now going to do a universal health care system. These kind of things can happen at the state level and then expand out once you see that they can work. This also happens negatively, right? Like the red states would be like, we are taking all women's rights from them. And then other red states say, oh, that looks terrific. Oh, we're going to close all our public schools. And Oklahoma's like, yeah, let's do that. You know, like it can work negatively and it can work positively. So if you make it work, then people go, oh geez, well, I wouldn't mind getting my state's education up as well. Look what Jocelyn did over there in Michigan. I think that's really how we need to be. We need to be leading by example. We need governors, we need, we need state representatives, we need people out here that are doing the right thing and then showing that it works and then allowing that to thrive in other places. But I, I want to just touch on that thing you said about you don't want people leaving the state. And I think that that's such an interesting thing because, you know, I, I think some states feel like they have a brain drain, a youth issue. You know, people will finish their schooling and then bail out of their states. But I know you have a young son and you clearly want Michigan to be a good place to raise a child and you want people and children to want to stay in Michigan after they're grown and not leave, have to leave to another state to be successful. And again, I feel like that's one of those things that lots of states feel. They're like, oh, I finished here and then I, I left. And we want to make each one of our states as successful as possible so that people can stay in their hometown if they want to because they don't feel like they have to leave to go to one of three cities.
- [30:21]
Jocelyn Benson
Right? Yeah. I mean, I'm a mom to an incredible 8 year old boy who in 10 years is going to be deciding whether or not Michigan is the best place to build his future. And I want him to see Michigan as a place that was the best place to be a kid and grow up and also call home his own family. So we have work to do to make that vision a reality. But I want that for every family in our state. And it starts with, with protecting and investing in public education and ensuring that needed funding and support and standards actually goes into place all across our state. And then also secondly, making it easier for once you get through that education system for you to have a job or build a career in the field that you want and know that you can do it in Michigan. So one of the things I've proposed are sort of three paths into post graduation once people emerge out of our public school system. Number one is going into college and making that path, path easier than ever. Number two is going into a paid apprenticeship that gives you on the job training for a year or two so that you can enter straight into your field or build things or create things. And third is a year of service which would enable anyone who Chooses that path to have a paid year of service, working to serve in a service provider or state or local government. And at the end of the year, get a check that would enable you to either start your own business or nonprofit or put a down payment on your, on your first home or invest in your next step in a collegiate education. So there's lots of ways in which we can structure education and opportunity in our state to expand economic options as well. And also, you know, I've been talking to a lot of business leaders on the other side of the educational system and how can we keep our college graduates in the state? A lot of it starts and ends with making it easier to plant your seeds and grow a business right here in Michigan and eliminating a lot of the red tape and wasteful spending and inefficiency in state government that does deter a lot of people from building that next tech company or investing in development of climate tech or biotech in our state state when it's easier and sometimes cheaper to do it in Texas or in Florida or even in Colorado. And so I'm trying to find ways that we can make government again on the side of, of our innovators, of our students, of our talented people, make their lives easier and enable them to choose Michigan as their future. And to me, you know, Michigan is uniquely positioned to be that Midwestern beacon for talent and innovation. We just need a government that is going to make that, that connect that talent with those innovative opportunities instead of standing in the way.
- [32:43]
Lee McGowan
I think, you know, if we're going to return to why you wrote this book, because God knows I want you to be governor of Michigan, but like, if we're going to return to a national idea of why you wrote this book, this concept of a purposeful warrior, this concept of like, fighting back at a time where everything is just. It feels hopeless. But we need people that still have the hope. What would you say to people who are feeling scared right now, now who want to do something but don't know even where to start?
- [33:09]
Jocelyn Benson
I think it's okay to feel scared right now. Number one, like it. Don't, don't be paralyzed or shameful of that, of the, of. We all are feeling scared and angry and frustrated in this moment, and we can have those feelings and then decide what to do with them. So I have a chapter in my book called finding purpose in your rage. Taking that rage you may feel and saying, what am I going to do with it that furthers my purpose. Purpose making people's lives easier or, you know, standing up to fight for my kids, or however you define that. Well, how am I going to channel that rage into energy to target it towards fighting for what I believe in? Same with fear. The first chapter in. In the book is. Talks about when I was in Alabama at the age of 20 investigating extremist organizations. And I had a very visceral moment alone in this hotel room in South Carolina where I thought, oh, my gosh, are the people I'm tracking going to come and kill me? And I had a. I was very afraid in that moment, but I sat with that fear and I thought, okay, well, I can do one of two things. I can run away and stop doing this work and do something else, or I can choose courage and move forward and get to work and start writing this article, exposing their activities and plans. And I chose the latter. And every time and every step of the way, and many stories throughout my life where I chose to build that bravery muscle by choosing courage. It's been easier and easier to go down that path. But it never starts with saying it's not okay to be afraid. Right. You always allow those feelings and learn from them and use them then to help inform your next step, which can be realigning and furthering your purpose. And then when you go through that and get on the other side of that action, you find yourself in many ways stronger and more focused than ever before, perhaps still fearful and scared and angry, and that's fine. But at the same time, you have a use for that fear, use for that anger in a way that is not just advancing your own hopes for the. For the future, but inspiring others to do the same.
- [35:05]
Lee McGowan
Yeah, I think it's the inspiring others to do the same part that's really very helpful, because I think that bravery or courage in itself doesn't mean there's a lack of fear. It means you do it anyway. And I think that that's really important. But I also think it's really important to have leaders like you out here leading by example, because I recently saw a tweet you wrote of Trump's hundred days, and you wrote 100 days of chaos and confusion. Hundred days of rising costs, hundred days of rect. Reckless economic policy. This isn't something to celebrate. And I was like, yeah, like, don't mince words. Like, we don't need to pretend that this is okay. We don't need to pretend this is business as usual. In fact, the leaders that we're looking to right now are the ones that are calling it out, because it makes the rest of us feel, you know, more courage because we go, thank God. They're saying it like, we keep looking for our leaders. Who's the person that's going to say, this is outrageous? And that's why I was speaking of people like J.B. pritzker being like, this is outrageous, and we need the Democrats to do better. And we see people like Governor Mills being like, see you in court. You know, like. Right. Publicly, he gets. She gets called out publicly, and she doesn't back down. She's like, that's fine. I'm going to protect my people in court. Those are the kind of leaders we need to see right now because it'll give us all the courage. And I feel like you are that kind of leader. So I couldn't. I couldn't wish you any better.
- [36:23]
Jocelyn Benson
Thank you. I mean, I. I'm running for governor in a state that voted for Donald Trump and voted for me twice. Twice. So I know, and I think it's important to be able to work across the aisle, but not at the expense of our rights and freedoms, and to consistently speak out and speak the truth about this moment. Not to be partisan, but because, you know, in 2020, Team Democracy was under attack. Right. And the truth mattered. And so I think we can fight back with truth and facts to protect those values that we care for, and that sometimes will require us to stand up to bullies who will try to rip away our rights. But we can do that with that strength, that courage, and that truth on our side and in fierce defense of our values. And if we do that, we find more of us than there are of them, for lack of better words, and we inspire others as well. When Governor Pritzker, when Governor Mills speaks out, I look to them and I feel more strength to do the same. And so we have to recognize that impact as well. And I do think you're going to see governors emerge, emerge consistently as the voices, not just in furtherance of our democracy and the values that across the board, we all can align with in our Constitution, regardless of how we may feel about a particular issue. But at the same time, as governors, we can also actually do something about it. We can also actually respond to an inaction or confusion, an economic policy at the federal level, and work to alleviate the pain of those economic policies in our states by eliminating wasteful spending, improving our housing policy and making housing more affordable, improving access to public education, making it easier to start a business. There are ways in which you can improve the economic status and growth and prosperity of the people of your state without having to play footsie with people who would just as soon rip away the foundation of who we are as Americans and have shown us time and time again that that's who they are.
- [38:18]
Lee McGowan
Yeah, exactly. And there's. There's a difference between reaching across the aisle to, you know, discuss housing policy than there is and trying to find middle ground between is, you know, is a trans person a person. Like, there's no middle ground in that. Like, I don't think we need to be apologizing for our values. We need to be standing up for our values. Like, I will never apologize for standing up for people who are marginalized. I'm not gonna say, well, would it help me better if we know, like, these are my values. I believe we need human rights. And that's where I stop. And then if you wanna talk about housing policy, taxing policy, we can do that. But we're not gonna discuss human rights and. And who gets them and who doesn't. We're not gonna discuss the middle ground between scooping people up without due process and sending them to, like, foreign gulags. There's no middle ground in that. That should not be happening, period. The end. And what you're talking about, this footsie thing, that can't happen anymore. We have to be like, nope, that's a red line for me. And I think that's the beauty of the blue state governors who are strong and why we want you to be governor of Michigan. People forget how huge America is. It is so gigantic. And our governors are basically tiny little predators, residents of their own country. You know what I mean? Like, we have so many big countries within this country, and we want to show by example this is how it works when you have a leader leading with their values, leading with their intention, and standing up for the people. And those are the kind of people I need, we need to be supporting right now. So thank you so much for joining us today, Jocelyn. The Purposeful Warrior drops today, people. So please tell people how to buy it and also how to follow your campaign and help you you out.
- [39:47]
Jocelyn Benson
You can follow me@jocelyn benson.com and you can find the Purposeful Warrior everywhere that books are sold. And I encourage you to go to your local bookstores and invest in them, because those are such important gathering places. And this is an opportunity where we can always live our values by buying books at local bookstores and finding different ways, large and small, to stand up for who we are, ourselves, those we love, and the principles and values that we know have made our country truly great throughout our history.
- [40:15]
Lee McGowan
Yeah, absolutely. And at the end of the day, your. Your book tells us this, like, we all have the power within ourselves to make change and to make a difference. And as you quoted at the beginning, Eleanor Roosevelt, you know, like, no one has the power to make us feel inferior without our consent. And no one has the power to take this from us without our consent. And we just have to say, I do not consent in this moment.
- [40:37]
Jocelyn Benson
So let's go.
- [40:38]
Lee McGowan
Yeah.
- [40:38]
Jocelyn Benson
And it all begins with your next step, right?
- [40:40]
Lee McGowan
Yeah.
- [40:40]
Jocelyn Benson
And if we all take those steps together, there's nothing that can stand in our way. And remember that. And remember that power. Remember that the power of the people will always be greater than the people in power. And it is only when people in power convince us that our voices don't matter, that we stand to lose that power. But no one can take that away from us without our consent. And as long as we stand determined to protect it, we can truly ensure this country is great.
- [41:05]
Lee McGowan
Yes. So that was Jocelyn Benson reminding us that we can find purpose and mission in our rage. That we can be scared, but help anyway. That no one can take our country, our democracy, our freedoms from us without our permission. That we might be feeling powerless, but we're not. The way this country goes is ultimately up to us and how we react to what we are being given. It is not our job to fix every issue. Pick the thing you care most about and lean in. You have no idea how many lives could be improved because you did the thing. How many others might be inspired by your courage, your voice, your bravery? This entire moment in history is a call to action. And just like the Freedom Riders on that bridge in Selma saw the chaos and violence they were facing, but marched anyway. We, the American people, can look at the chaos and uncertainty ahead of us and do the same. At the end of the day, this is our country, and there are still leaders like Jocelyn Benson out here looking to make it better. So we need to support them with our time, our money, and our courage. I want to thank Jocelyn for joining us today and you for caring enough about democracy to be here. Now go and buy the purposeful warrior and get inspired to find your grit to stand up for what's right. Until next week. PG Out. Before you go, I just want to say, if you're a premium member of this podcast, thank you for your support. And if you're not a member, please consider being a patron of my work. If you watch mainstream news at this point, you are rarely getting the truth. You are hearing some version of a billionaire backed propaganda. The White House press room is now filled with right wing influencers and bootlickers so if you want facts and knowledge it's essential those of us out here still bringing them to you our support. So if you aren't a member of Politics Girl Premium, please consider going to politicsgirl.com and signing up. You will get this podcast ad free along with my rants and bonus content sent directly to your inbox. So even if my work is silenced on social media, you will still get access to it. There is a link to sign up in the bio of this episode but also@politicsgirl.com and as always please like and share this podcast so we can grow our audience. The more people who have access to this kind of information the better. As always, thank you for your time and support. Politics Girl Podcast is written and performed by me, Lee McGowan in partnership with the Midas Media Network and produced and edited by Happy Warrior Entertainment. All rights reserved.