Not Today Satan: A Conversation with Democracy’s Secret Weapon Skye Perryman

Summary

Summary of "Not Today Satan: A Conversation with Democracy’s Secret Weapon Skye Perryman"

Podcast Title: The PoliticsGirl Podcast
Host: Lee McGowan
Guest: Skye Perryman, President and CEO of Democracy Forward
Release Date: March 11, 2025

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1. Introduction

In this compelling episode of The PoliticsGirl Podcast, host Lee McGowan engages in a profound conversation with Skye Perryman, the President and CEO of Democracy Forward. The discussion centers around the critical role Democracy Forward plays in safeguarding American democracy amidst growing threats from extremist political maneuvers and governmental overreach.

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2. Origin of Democracy Forward

Skye Perryman sheds light on the foundational moments that led to the creation of Democracy Forward. Originating during the early months of the Trump-Pence administration, the organization emerged as a response to unprecedented legal and political challenges facing American democracy.

Notable Quote:

[02:28] Sky Perryman: "Democracy Forward sprung into action... we are a pretty good secret weapon, bringing cases, working with communities across the country."

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3. Legal Battles and Cases

Democracy Forward has been at the forefront of numerous legal battles aimed at countering the administration's attempts to undermine democratic institutions and civil rights. Perryman highlights several key cases and initiatives:

• Protecting Federal Funding: Blocking unlawful freezes on federal funds that threatened essential services like Head Start and Meals on Wheels.

• Combating AI Misuse: Investigating the Trump administration's use of AI in personnel decisions, particularly through entities like DOGE, which compromises data security and targets federal employees.

• Opposing DEI Executive Orders: Suing against executive orders that penalize individuals and organizations not aligning with the administration's DEI (Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion) mandates.

Notable Quote:

[07:26] Skye Perryman: "We've filed more than 25 legal actions since January 20... we've won a lot of nationwide court orders that are protecting communities across the country."

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4. The Administration's Overreach

The conversation delves into the systemic overreach by the Trump administration, emphasizing how executive orders and legislative bypasses have threatened various sectors, including education, healthcare, and civil rights.

Notable Quote:

[08:55] Skye Perryman: "The President has a real problem with his legal representation right now... it's not a legal problem, that's the way you're operating."

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5. The Role of Courts as Frontline Defense

Historically considered the last line of defense, courts have now become the primary battleground for defending democracy. Perryman explains how Democracy Forward leverages the judicial system to counteract unconstitutional actions and policies.

Notable Quote:

[10:02] Lee McGowan: "The courts have really become the front line of defense in this battle for democracy."

[10:26] Skye Perryman: "We do both [immediate defense and long-term strategies] at the same time... we've seen that Project 2025... laid out a blueprint... we've been able to get into court quickly."

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6. Building and Defending Democracy

Democracy Forward operates on a multi-faceted approach encapsulated in their pillars: Defend, Disrupt, and Build. This strategy not only counters current threats but also lays the groundwork for a more inclusive and robust democratic future.

Notable Quote:

[18:38] Skye Perryman: "Defend, Disrupt, Build... it's about understanding that you can't just go around and just try to stop the bad thing. We'll never actually be able to create that future that we all need."

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7. Civic Engagement and Future Steps

Perryman emphasizes the importance of civic participation and collective action in strengthening democracy. She urges individuals to engage with their representatives, stay informed, and support organizations like Democracy Forward in their mission.

Notable Quote:

[31:50] Skye Perryman: "It’s going to take everybody and we already are seeing that... there is a role for all of us in it."

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8. Conclusion

The episode culminates with a powerful affirmation of resilience and hope. Perryman and McGowan underscore that while the fight to preserve democracy is arduous, it is far from unwinnable. With sustained legal efforts, civic engagement, and communal support, there is a clear path toward a stronger, more inclusive American democracy.

Final Notable Quote:

[42:10] Lee McGowan: "Politics Girl Podcast... there is a link to sign up in the bio of this episode, but [e-mail]... keep the work going and to support those telling the truth and working for the collective good in the world when all we see is propaganda working for profit and power."

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Key Takeaways:

• Democracy Forward's Mission: Serving as a legal bulwark against unconstitutional actions and policies, protecting civil and legal rights across the nation.

• Strategic Approach: Combining immediate legal defenses with long-term strategies to build and reinforce democratic institutions.

• Importance of Legal Action: Courts are now the primary arena for defending democracy, necessitating robust legal representation and strategic litigation.

• Civic Responsibility: Individual and collective engagement is crucial in supporting and sustaining democratic values and institutions.

For those interested in supporting Democracy Forward or learning more about their efforts, visit democracyforward.org and follow their social media channels. Engaging with and supporting such organizations is pivotal in the ongoing fight to preserve and enhance American democracy.

Transcript

[Sky Perryman]

So their whole job is to try to convince people that they actually don't have power, that it doesn't matter what they do, that it's overwhelming, that it's chaotic. You know, you might get targeted or intimidated. I'm not making light of any of this. This is a crisis that we're in, but that's the tool they have. And so what we have to do, what every individual has to do, is to say for ourselves, not on my watch.

[Lee McGowan]

Hello and welcome to the Politics Girl Podcast. I'm your host, Lee McGowan. Let's get into it. Honestly, it is infuriating to be someone who believes in the American experiment of self governance and freedom and democracy. These days, the State of the Union felt like a psyop. It was so filled with lies and propaganda. And the Democrats did us no favors in their response with leadership acting like it's somehow business as usual. That sign the New Mexico representative Melanie Stansbury held beside the president saying this is not normal was correct, but we needed far more than one representatives who stand up and act like it. We are at the action part of the show now. We can't just say this isn't normal. We have to behave like this isn't normal. We need action from us, action from our leaders, action from outside groups willing to take the hit for fighting back. So today we're talking to someone who is taking action, who is fighting back and protecting us where seemingly few others are. Sky Perryman from Democracy Forward. Now, if you haven't heard of Democracy Forward, don't beat yourself up. I only recently learned about them myself, but boy, was I happy to know that they exist. Democracy Forward is a national legal organization at the front line of defending the American people in court. You know what Mark Elias and his team do to protect our elections and our voting rights? Well, Skye Perryman and her team are doing that to protect our civil rights and legal rights. In fact, according to the San Francisco Chronicle, Democracy Forward has filed more lawsuits than any single state or organization in this new administration. While we are seeing lawsuits from individuals and labor unions and blue states and progressive organizations all fighting back, it is Democracy Forward that is leading the charge. There is a reason that sky was named one of the most influential people shaping policy by Washington magazine last year. She is just doing it one case at a time. So without further ado, please welcome my guest, president and CEO of Democracy Forward and democracy's secret weapon, Sky Perryman. Welcome, Sky.

[Sky Perryman]

Hi. Thanks for having me.

[Lee McGowan]

Well, thanks for joining me. But more important, thank you for starting Democracy Forward. Because, boy, do we need you.

[Sky Perryman]

Well, we are having a moment right now, right?

[Lee McGowan]

You sure are. The whole country is right. I mean, so listen, tell me how Democracy Forward came to be, because as I understand it, you had kind of worked your way up to an extremely plum job at a great firm, and then you left it behind to put your energy towards helping the country. So talk us through that choice and what Democracy Forward came out of.

[Sky Perryman]

Well, they were in the first months of the Trump administration, the Trump Pence administration, and many of your listeners probably remember seeing lawyers running in airports to render assistance, like doctors have to render assistance in a war zone to people who were being blocked from coming in the country because of the Muslim ban. So lawyers were having a moment. And organizations that we work with all the time and are so deeply appreciative of, like the aclu, were bringing just tremendous cases at the tip of the spear to stop what at the time was something the country had really not seen in modern history, this extremism. So think things like the Muslim man. But what was happening at that same time, and this will rhyme a little bit with what we're seeing today, was it in these federal agencies that, you know, maybe no one ever cares to know about or maybe sort of. It seems a little wonky. There was a lot of stuff going on that were super harmful to, like, hundreds of millions of Americans around the country that wasn't getting any attention because everyone was focused on the tip of the spear issue. So that was everything from, does this sound familiar? Targeting federal employees, abruptly cutting off funding for programs that had bipartisan support in Congress that communities had been relying on for decades, trying to reverse regulations and policies without actually telling people that they were going to do it or getting their point of view, which you have to do in this country. And so all of these things were happening, and there just wasn't the capacity to figure out what was going on and to take the administration to court when they violated the law. Of course, we don't go to court when just say you have a disagreement with someone. That's not when you go to court. You go to court when there's harm that violates the law. And so Democracy Forward sprung into action. I was fortunate enough to be one of the early lawyers here that got that, built some of those early cases. We had a range of other lawyers who left great jobs to come forward. And really a bit under the radar for the Trump administration, were a pretty good secret weapon, bringing cases, working with communities across the country, working across issues we won a whole lot more than people thought we would. And so that was the origin story of our organization. And then there was a question like, is this really needed or was just, just something a moment in time where we needed a few extra good lawyers to go and make a difference? And January 6th really answered that, that the threats to our democracy, the threats to the American people, were not leaving the administration was leaving Washington, but that there had been this misinformation and disinformation, state and local extremism and so much. There was a movement afoot that needed to be countered. And so in the summer of 2021, the board of Democracy Forward asked if I would come back to the organization as its CEO and build it and scale it for what is now this moment. I don't think anyone predicted this moment, but for these long term fights ahead. And so we've been working vigorously at the state and local level, suing on book bans and abortion bans and attempts to undermine public education and the safety of communities. And then also now have a significant practice representing people in communities against the Trump administration's overreach. Because it has only been 40 days and we are seeing a lot of harmful overreach.

[Lee McGowan]

Yeah, no, I mean, as you're saying, this behavior isn't new that we're seeing now. You, you were sort of like talking about doing it back in 2016 when they were sort of gutting agencies secretly and nobody knew. And then you thought, well, okay, well this administration will be done and we'll go back to something sort of normal. And then we saw January 6th and it was like, oh, no, we might need to keep this going full time. And I think that's the thing about our side of the political aisle, that often we don't have the long term planning that the other side has done. You know, a lot of the things we're seeing now are the results of long term plans. You know, the long term plan to overturn Roe v. Wade, the long term plan to roll back voters rights or women's rights or workers rights. They had a long term plan to bring Christ nationalism to the front. And we are seeing the results of that. Now you're saying recently that, you know, you're watching these anti democratic movements using political power to roll back our rights across the country. And like you're saying, that's from school boards to Congress. And we're watching the executive branch use executive orders, you know, to completely usurp the legislative branch and fundamentally reshape how our government works. So we need Someone to stand up and say, actually, you're not allowed to do that. And you guys are there doing that work.

[Sky Perryman]

We are. We're in court every single day and most nights. We filed more than 25 legal actions since January 20, and more than, I think, 14 or 15 cases at this point. Affirmative cases in court. We've won a lot of nationwide court orders that are protecting communities across the country, and we are gearing up to do a lot more of that.

[Lee McGowan]

Yeah, I mean, we're watching the legislative branch of this government basically become neutered. I mean, the Republicans have essentially fallen completely in line. Even if they know better, even if secretly they're saying, we shouldn't be doing this. We know this is wrong. They're doing it anyway. And then the Democrats are sort of falling apart. They don't know how to meet this moment exactly. They're trying to find their way. So the courts have really become the front line of defense in this battle for democracy. It used to be that the courts were kind of our last line of defense, and now they've become our first. And I feel like your group was ready because you'd already challenged Trump policies before, so you're sort of well suited to do it again. You've sort of been in this fight. Do you find they have. The Trump administration has better representation this time? Like, I'm looking at his cabinet, right? 80% of Trump's cabinet, which is like an extraordinary amount of stupid rich people, they were kind of against his first administration. They were people that were like, oh, no, he's not our guy. Like, we won't do it. And now they've all kind of abandoned their scruples this time around. Are you finding that with the legal representation, is it still hard to find good lawyers to fight for things that are clearly illegal? Because for a long time, you know, we were looking at the Giuliani's of the world fighting it.

[Sky Perryman]

Yeah, I think. I think the President has a real problem with his legal representation right now. I mean, he is losing in court because this is indefensible. It's not because the lawyers aren't good. Some of the lawyers of the Department of Justice are some of the best lawyers in the country. It's not that. It's that, you know, you can be a best lawyer in the country, and if what you're doing is so outside the bounds of the law that, by the way, judges that Republicans have appointed, judges that Democrats have appointed, judges that President Trump himself has appointed, are all having to take action to stop or slow your activities. You've got, you know, you've got a problem that's not a legal problem, that's not a lawyer problem. That. That is sort of the way you're operating. So, you know, we're seeing the administration is very sensitive about this. They've already issued two executive orders that are calling law firms out. Specifically, they have issued yesterday a memo where they're trying to threaten people about bringing litigation. And that all shows that what we're doing is working. It's protecting people, certainly, but it's also requiring that the administration rethink what they're doing, which I think is a good thing given how harmful and unlawful their activ activities are.

[Lee McGowan]

Yeah, I mean, it's kind of hard to defend the indefensible. It doesn't matter how good a lawyer you are. It seems that Democracy Ford has kind of multiple pillars to the organization, like the immediate defense. So lawsuits that have to be filed right away, like when funding has been cut off illegally and you need to get money back in the hands of, say, USAID and then kind of like a longer game perspective in the fight for democracy, which luckily you guys seem to not have given up on.

[Sky Perryman]

Yes, I mean, we do both at the same time. So the reason we were ready to go day one was not just because of our experience in the last Trump administration, although that certainly helped, but was because we spent months looking at what would happen if a far right actor ascended to the presidency. Thankfully, Project 2025 and the FAR right legal movement and the far right policy movement in this country did a lot of that work for us, laying out a blueprint of what they were going to do. The President, of course, lied to the American people and acted like he didn't know anything about. And that's because in every single poll, including polling up and until election Day, among conservatives, among liberals, and among independents, Project 2025 was a toxic hot potato because the American people don't stand for that type of extremism. But we looked at that blueprint and said, well, gosh, so much of this is just totally unlawful. How would we respond and how would lawyers be able to respond if the President sought to accelerate this agenda, which, of course is what he has done, even though he told the American people that he didn't know anything about? And so we've been able to get into court quickly. No one had Elon Musk on their bingo card the way that he is. But we do understand the playbook, which is a relatively unchanged far right playbook and a playbook of Donald Trump, which is to try to create so much chaos and overwhelm that people give up and lack engagement and that people think there's no hope and that there's nothing to do. And that's really what the Elon Musk overlay of this is, is it's just a way to try to overwhelm the system. They say they're trying to flood the zone. I don't even understand how a person that's been with the public trust can just say that this is what he's trying to do to the very people that he is supposed to be entrusted to represent. But that's what he's doing. And we understood that we were going to meet that shock and awe with our own version of that in the courts, and that the courts were going to have to be this front line. And we've seen that there's been almost 100 cases filed against the administration since day one, again, not because of a policy disagreement, but because what they're doing is so unlawful and harmful. And so I think you're going to continue to see this work and we're going to be there and our partners are going to be there every single day.

[Lee McGowan]

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[Sky Perryman]

And we're going to be there and our partners are going to be there every single day.

[Lee McGowan]

Yeah. And like, thank God for you guys, sky, because honestly, a lot of us are looking around being like, like, how did you not see this coming? Like, what do you mean you're not prepared for this? Like, they wrote it down. I know they said they weren't going to do it, but like, we knew they were going to do it. I've been talking about this for a year, you know, and so it's nice to know that the people at Democracy Forward were like, this Project 2025 thing is probably the playbook. We've seen it before. They're just going to go through it. Let's prepare for it. And I think that's the thing, is that a lot of people weren't prepared and you guys were, which is important. I was looking at your website and your website puts it, well, it says defend, disrupt, build, right? So defend democracy and democratic policies through everything from the courts to like regulatory action to even public education, right? Then disrupt the unlawful, the regressive, the anti democratic activity that's happening right now through litigation, through investigations, again through public education. And then build coalitions, right? Build this group of lawyers and policy experts and researchers and communication specialists, people that have deep professional and personal experience in government, people that understand how government is supposed to work. And then of course, all these people at top law firms and nonprofits that are giving their time to do this fight, to fight on behalf of democracy. Because you guys are all out here supporting the communities to support a democratic and just future. And I think that's so important because I was looking at your client list and it is extensive. Like, it is everyone from voters, scientists, veterans, medical professionals, but also journalists, entire cities, counties, teachers, students, community organizers, public health experts. Like your list just goes on and on. People come to you and they say, help us fight back on behalf of democracy. And like how wonderful that you're out there doing this.

[Sky Perryman]

And we are really honored because we always say every day we get to represent people and communities that are the very fabric of American life, that everyone has a stake in this. It's not just people that go with their protest sign. And by the way, I think that's, that's very important. And I'm not saying it's not important, but it's also people who are trying to go about their lives and craft a future for themselves and for their families and their, for communities and that are being stymied by this aggressive overreach. So we're in court right now on behalf of religious institutions that are trying to fight to keep ICE out of their houses of worship. We've won an order on that. We're in court on behalf of workers, on behalf of university professors, on behalf of K12 12 educators, on behalf of parents, on behalf of so many people across the country. And that's really inspiring to our team and it helps kind of propel us. But I do think the Defend Disrupt build our pillars of our work at Democracy Forward are both about democracy and about moving forward. And it is about understanding that you can't just go around and just try to stop the bad thing. We'll never actually be able to create that future that we all need. Right. We need to do these things at the same time. And you can do them at the same time. And sometimes these crises can become a catalyst for real change. And that's what we are seeking to do at Democracy Forward. We are going to exploit every overreach of the Trump administration or of far right actors at the state level. I mean, these state legislative sessions, we haven't talked about that, but you're about to see another wave of book bans, of health care bans of just things that are unlawful and harmful to people. And those need to be challenged. And you can do that while at the same time that crisis brings people together in new and unique ways that can really be a catalyst for forward looking movement and for a vision for the future. And so that's really what we're trying to do at Democracy Forward. And I think we're quite honored to do it. It's a bit exhausting right now. We have these sweatshirts exhausted but not giving up that you guys can go buy on our merch store. But it is sort of an honor to get to do it.

[Lee McGowan]

Oh, My God, I need an exhausted but not giving up sweatshirt. That is what I need.

[Sky Perryman]

T shirt.

[Lee McGowan]

I have to have one. Sky. I mean, obviously your organization has their hands in a lot of pots, right? But the clearest way to see what you're doing is your work in the courts, right? Like you recently said on MSNBC that if people are wondering where the pushback to this nightmare is, it's in the courts. Right? There are lawyers and activists working day and, as you said, night, large and small organizations who are coming together to get into court and really make a difference. And. And let's talk about some of the cases that you've been working with and some successes that people can know that you guys are working on, because I know you're working on so many important things. Like, I believe you launched an investigation into the legality of DOGE itself and the Trump administration's use of AI to make these personnel decisions. Can you tell us a bit about that?

[Sky Perryman]

Yes. So we have so many investigations and lawsuits against Doge because it is operating under a shroud of secrecy. It is trying to normalize something that should not be normal. It is compromising our data security, individual like, information that the government has about you and your finances and your family and your community, all on these sensitive systems. And they are, you know, running roughshod over them. And it is seeking to target the very Americans that work for all of us. Like, I don't know how to keep my food safe or how to keep my community safe. Right. But guess what? Our federal employees and our civil servants do. And that's exactly what Doge is targeting. So we had a lot of stuff pending against Doge, but recently, and this is really interesting, this notion of, like, send me an email about the five things you did. It just. It doesn't make sense. If you're running. It doesn't make sense. You know, it might make sense if, like, you're managing a small team or something, but if you're running the federal government, what is someone going to do with that information, other than to try to categorize it and study it in some way and probably make quite arbitrary decisions on it. So we have launched an investigation. We've requested documents that the American people have access through, through Freedom of Information act around that. We are in some court cases where in one case, a judge has ordered that we get to take what's called discovery against Doge. We get to ask questions and, you know, exchange information and understand more. So we are really committed to getting to the bottom of this and we're committed to stopping the harm.

[Lee McGowan]

Yeah, I mean, like, this is important because I know you also filed a lawsuit against the Office of Management and Budget, which is what Russell Vogt, who wrote Project 2025, is now running to get the documents related to the Trump. Trump administration's illegal efforts to freeze federal financing assistance. And basically this seems like a way to force the OMB to explain how they decided to freeze this federal funding, like, which is grants and loans and contracts and stuff. Is that right?

[Sky Perryman]

Yeah. So we've done a few things. So one is when they came out just right after inauguration, and you guys will remember, you know, with this memo that was like, by 5:00 tomorrow, no one's going to have federal funds, which, by the way, means your Head Start center is not going to be open, your Meals on Wheels center is not going to be open. Right. It means that essential services across the country that people in red states and blue states rely on are going to be frozen unlawfully. Our team stayed up through the night and went into court the next morning and blocked that funding freeze. And we have received multiple extensions of that nationwide order. And then at the same time, it became clear in the litigation that, like, it's very unclear what even the reasoning was. And I mean, you saw the White House press secretary, they had a White House press event that was a mess about all this. So we're now digging deeper in some related Freedom of Information act request and really seeking to understand what we can learn about what went into what really was a callous decision. I mean, we, the people we heard from, from across the country, and you probably did, too. But I mean, older people who weren't sure if their transport was going to come to them to take them to the doctor, people in cancer clinical trials who weren't sure if they were going to be able to get their cancer treatment, treatment the next day, all because of this callous decision, which of course we're very pleased that we blocked, but that we need to have an accounting for to understand what was happening, who was calling those shots and who thought that you could do that to the American people. So that's one of our efforts right now.

[Lee McGowan]

Yeah, well, because I think the thing is, is that this government is running as if they're accountable to nobody, that they can do whatever they want and it won't affect people. And you're like, there's a, like, somebody waiting to be taken to the doctor. There's, you know, they fire all the guys that take care of our nuclear warheads. And then they're like, whoops, we shouldn't have done that. And then they try and get them back, but they don't have their emails. Like, this kind of ineptness is very dangerous to the American people. But also what you're saying with these kind of lawsuits and this discovery is that they have to prove legal justification for their actions. Right. Which is important because if it turns out it's haphazard, which I think we all know it is, is then it is therefore reckless and lawless and we can be stopping it.

[Sky Perryman]

Exactly. So we've got that, we've got those anti diversity, equity, inclusion and accessibility, the executive orders. That said, if your view doesn't align with the president, and by the way, they won't define what they mean by the terms or anything else, you could be penalized and in really problematic ways. With this Pam Bondi memo and other things, we were able to get a nationwide order blocking that. So really what we want people to know is that like there are lawyers and advocates that are fighting every day in the court words, and we're winning. Which is why the President's really upset and tried to target and intimidate people.

[Lee McGowan]

Sounds about right. I mean, if he wasn't trying to target, intimidate you, you could be like, oh, I guess we're not doing a good enough job. But I just want to tell people like, you guys just won a case that restored the employment to more than 5,000 federal workers at the USDA. Right. You are part of what you were saying this. Quakers are suing the Trump administration over ice enforcing in houses of worship. You were part of a lawsuit where non profits and public health health leaders and advocates sued the administration to block the freeze on federal funding to their organizations. You defended the federal programs that were in place to ensure there wasn't discrimination against minority and women owned businesses. You were involved in a lawsuit even as Trump was being inaugurated. You were in a lawsuit to protect medical patients, federal privacy rights. You were just talking about this DEI stuff like you're in a class action lawsuit right now. It seems like it's stopping the Trump administration from withholding federal funding to any school or education facility that would undermine civil rights. I'm assuming that's the DEI behavior.

[Sky Perryman]

We have two. So we have one that we on his executive orders were with the stroke of a pen. He wanted to, I don't know, I don't know what he wanted to do. Play king, I think because he totally disregarded the First Amendment, which is what the courts have said. And then, and then on Valentine's Day, not much of a Valentine, the Department of Education issued this letter that really puts federal funding for education in the balance based on a very retributive and backwards agenda. And so we're in court on that too.

[Lee McGowan]

Yeah, see, here's the thing I want people to understand, like you guys are out here fighting every day. We think like who's doing anything? And no one's helping us. You guys are helping us. There are people out here actually doing the work. And I think it's important that democracy forward. And you personally have been very clear that yes, it's going to take continued effort, not only in the courts, but also by us in our communities and by our representatives in Congress. Because this is a runaway executive branch. But the opposition can't happen just through litigation. Are you one of those people that needs complete darkness to sleep, but your blinds allow little light around the edges or are never quite dark enough? Do you find yourself in 2025 with blinds from 2005? Well, there is a better way to buy blinds, shades, shutters and drapery and it's called three Day Blinds. Three Day Blinds are the leading manufacturer of high quality custom window treatments in the U.S. three Day Blinds has local, professionally trained design consultants who have an average of 10 plus years experience that provide expert guidance on the right blinds for you in the comfort of your own home. Just set up an appointment and you will get a free no obligation quote the same day. You're not very handy or you enjoy DIY projects, but you know that measuring and installing blinds can be a challenge. Let the Expert team at 3 Day Blinds handle the heavy lifting they design, measure and install so you can just sit back, relax and leave it to the pros. Check out three Day Blinds on Instagram and you can see they've got thousands of options that fit any budget and style with actual samples so you won't have to be guessing about what your blinds will look like. And 3 Day Blinds has been in business for over 45 years helping over 2 million people get the window treatment treatments of their dreams. So you know that they're a brand you can trust right now. Get quality window treatments that fit your budget with three day blinds. Head to three day blinds.com politicsgirl for their buy one get one 50% off custom blinds, shades, shutters and drapery for a free no charge, no obligation consultation. Just head to 3dayblinds.com politicsgirl one last time that's buy one get one 50% off when you head to the number 3D a Y blinds.com politicsgirl so it was midday and I was in the kitchen putting all the things my teenager forgot to put in the dishwasher in the dishwasher and my husband came in from his office looking for his mud water. He has become quite dedicated to mud water as a way to give him a natural boost midday rather than going with a coffee. Now I get it. Coffee is a go to for many people but you can. You can also get crazy jitters or an afternoon crash. But with mud water it's different. It's a mix of cacao, chai, turmeric and aptogenic mushrooms to help you feel focused and balanced. Not wired. It's smooth, steady and honestly it helps you feel good. Plus it's ridiculously easy to make. It takes like two minutes with hot water or milk and you're ready to get back to your day. If you are a Matcha lover, the Matcha Starter Kit is something you should try. It's the perfect way to step into clean energy with Matcha's calming focused Boost. Each ingredient in Mud Water serves a purpose with organic ingredients for clean natural boost. MudWTR's smooth earthy flavors provide delicious and natural source of energy. Their OG blend contains cacao and chai and a hint of caffeine and a hot chocolate like flavor lines made for focus quadriceps to promote natural energy in both Chaga and Reishi to support your natural healthy immune system. Mudwtr even has caffeine free blends if that's what you prefer. The best part of mudwtr is that it provides sustained energy without the spikes or crashes. Ready to make the switch to clean Energy? Head to mudwtr.com and grab your starter kit today. Right now our listeners are getting an exclusive deal of up to 43% off your entire order plus free shipping and free rechargeable frother when you use the code politicsgirl. That's right up to 43% off with the code [e-mail] and after you purchase when they ask you how you found them, please support the show and tell them that we sent you. Keep your energy natural and refreshing all year long with Mud Water because life is too short for anything less than clean delicious energy. That's M u d w t r.com code politicsgirl because this is a runaway executive branch. But the opposition can't happen just through litigation, right?

[Sky Perryman]

It's gonna take everybody and we already are seeing that and it's something that's not getting reported so I'm glad we're talking about it. There are historic levels right now on teletown halls with members of Congress. People are calling in, they're concerned. They're just like your listener. I mean, what's happening? Like, what's going on? What. What are we doing? We now don't have reports about the bird flu because they don't want to, like, report on public health measures. How are we supposed to raise our kids? How are we supposed to be in communities? What do we do here? Right. And so you're already seeing really high levels of civic participation, people calling their members of Congress. We need that to continue. Members of the president's party have, like, shut down, as we understand it, some of the tele town halls, because they are tired of getting questions about, like, why does Elon Musk have my financial data? I mean, that is very scary, as it should be to many people. And so I think we need to continue to see that civic engagement. What we know about extreme actors, and Trump is one, and a lot of the groups that align behind him have these people, and we've seen it in other countries, is that the most powerful tool they have is the tool that they try to use to convince you that there's nothing you can do. Right. That's what we know. So their whole job is to try to convince people that they actually don't have power, that it doesn't matter what they do, that it's overwhelming, that it's chaotic. You know, you might get targeted or intimidated. I'm not making light of any of this. This is a crisis that we're in, but that's the tool they have. And so what we have to do, what every individual has to do, is to say for ourselves, not on my watch, we do have power as people. You don't have to be a lawyer. Our clients are some of the most powerful people. I mean, they are. They are in the courts. These are individual people that attend Baptist churches and Quaker meetings, and they're members of Sikh temples or they're teachers. Right. This is what the American people are doing right now. And we just need to encourage everyone to use whatever tools they have in their own life to show up and to be present, to be intentional about where they're getting information, which is why I've always loved your podcast. And I think that, like, doing that is actually what we have to do in this moment to defeat what is a real threat to our future.

[Lee McGowan]

Absolutely. And we also need our current representatives to actually do their jobs, too. I mean, if the legislative branch is anything like, you were just at the State of the Union, as I understand it, as a guest of Senator Van Holland. What was that like, watching that? Because to me, I would have been like, oh, my God, you're lying through this whole thing. And like, it would have made me bananas. How was that sitting there in that branch of government and watching that?

[Sky Perryman]

Well, let me first say I went to the Capitol to hear the speech because there were a number of people in the audience that night that were federal workers who had been targeted and intimidated and some of them fired by the President for no good reason in an unlawful termination. And I wanted to be there in solidarity for them. And that's why Senator Van Hollen wanted me to be there. And so it was an honor to get to be in the company of people who have done nothing other than the work of the American people, and this president is targeting them. And so, you know, that's what brought me there. It ended up being a very interesting evening because I. I was seated just a few chairs over from Elon Musk because he was in this. He was in this roped off area. And so, you know, you have Elon Musk over here, which was just a very interesting situation. The fact that we are literally reserving seats for Elon Musk, of course, the President starts making statements about Elon Musk's role that contradicts what they've been saying in court. So, you know, I was kind of. You don't get to have a pen. But I was taking mental notes.

[Lee McGowan]

People don't know what Sky's talking about. Elon Musk in court. They're claiming he has nothing to do with Doge, that he's not. He's not working for Doge. It's not his thing. And then the President got up on the dais and made his speech and said, elon Musk is in charge of Doge. And you're like, that is the opposite that you are arguing in court thinking.

[Sky Perryman]

You know, and I was very pleased when I walked out to see someone had already filed in court to say, like, look at what just happened. So. So that. So that was happening. But I also was there, and in addition to the. To the federal employees who I thought, I mean, what a dedication to your country to have been targeted by the President, unlawfully terminated, and to still show up, to still show up to say, we are here. We are going to be heard from and present, and we are here. I mean, that was really. That was really powerful. And that was just that's the American people. That's not common, you know, that's the American people. But the other thing was I met several people who lead. One person that leads a big Head Start initiative who was threatened to be unable to provide services to so many families and communities and children as a result of the funding freeze, had we not been able to. To get in court and stop it. And I met another woman who leads a community program for women and children who has been, you know, it's been horrific for the types of threats and fear that people have about essential services not being there because of the callous actions of the administration. So it was a very grounding experience, I think, to see you have musk over here in, like, a roped off area. You have the President making, you know, whatever statements, and then you have people whose lives are deeply affected, who have given their lives to the service of others. Right. Who have given their lives to the service of others and who this administration not only has no time for, but is seeking to target and attack. And so it was a helpful, motivating moment, I think. You. You don't get to have your electronics in there. You don't even get, like, a pen and paper. And so I think I was really just focused on, look at all that is at stake and look at all that we could potentially do together. Now we do need Congress to step up, but that is also on us because we need people to be very loud about, you know, to their representatives about what are they doing. A lot of the stuff that Trump is doing is hurting people who are represented by members of the President's own party. And so I think we're going to continue to see that type of pushback, and we need to see more of that.

[Lee McGowan]

Yeah, absolutely. And I think that's the thing. It's that, you know, all these government workers who have been, like, labeled the deep state or labeled as takers and have been fired illegally, for the most part, these are mostly just career civil servants, people who have worked for the American people from administration to administration, doing their job, whether it's working at the Social Security offices.

[Sky Perryman]

Right?

[Lee McGowan]

Yeah, exactly. And like, really facilitating how our world works in ways that we totally take for granted. And now they've been thrown out with the trash, and we are going to suffer, and they are going to suffer, and it's all very, very unnecessary. I mean, you pointed out on your website that more than a hundred of the country's leading political scientists have declared that America's entire democracy is at risk, which it clearly Is. But you've said that you use this current crisis as a catalyst for change. So before you go, tell me what you meant by that, because I think we could really use a positive spin on where we are right now, that we could potentially move this as a way for us to make things better, as a way for us to make things different, as a way to move things, as you say, way forward.

[Sky Perryman]

Well, you know, freedom is another word, right, for nothing left to lose. And we do have a lot to lose. But there is a freedom that comes, I think, with this extreme ism that the administration is engaged in, because what we know is it is a highly offensive to so many Americans. It is offensive to people who do not agree with probably me and you on a lot of policy issues, but they don't think you should be banning books, and they don't think you should have law enforcement busting into your church. And they don't write. There's, on these bases, basic issues that we can agree on. And so I think that there's an opportunity in this moment to bring people together who may not all be, you know, in the kind of the same club, right. Who may not all think the same way. That's what our country is. But I think there's an opportunity in that moment. I also think there's an opportunity to really look at where we are. Like, the truth is. The hard truth is our democracy has not been delivered, delivering for the people it needs to deliver for. And like, no one should run away from that fact. That's our generational challenge. It's how do we. That's why we are democracy forward. Like, we are not trying to, you know, we are about, how do you build a truly inclusive, multiracial, supportive democracy where people can craft the future that they want to live, which doesn't have to be the same as the future that you want. Right? And so I think that in this moment, there's just such an opportunity to be bold, to come together in new ways, to, you know, look, clarity of purpose is really important. And right now, it's very clear what organizations like mine need to be doing. We need to be working every single day to protect as many Americans as we can from what is a harmful and generationally defining threat to themselves and to our country. And that. And in that work, we will find new allies, new opportunities and new ways to push forward. And so I think it's. I think that this is a crisis that we don't want to be in, but now that we are in it, we need to use it for a catalyst. And we have these record levels of people tuning into teletown halls, wanting to ask questions, paying attention, because this is not normal. And we can do something with that, too. Right. And I think that you. You do that so much through your podcast, but we can do something with that engagement. And so I, you know, that's. That's what we think. And we believe that every day or we wouldn't do this work.

[Lee McGowan]

Yeah, I think you have to believe it every day. I feel the same way myself. There are days where I'm like, what do I even have to say? And then I have to sit down and go like, okay, no, I really do believe in the foundations of the nation based on liberal values and hope and enlightenment. But I also realize that the country was built on some shaky foundations. Right. Like, we built it with slavery still intact. We built it without women involved. We built it with a lot of flaws in the foundation. So. So we're at this moment now, as you say, as our Nation. We're at 250 years coming up on it, and it's like, oh, we have a shaky foundation, and we can either let it all crumble, or we can work together to shore it up and maybe put in some new pillars that allow us to build something stronger than we started with.

[Sky Perryman]

Correct. That's the work. And it's hard work, but it can be motivating work. And there. And there is a role for all of us in it.

[Lee McGowan]

Yeah. Yeah. Well, I want you to thank you so much for coming today, sky, and thank you so much to you and your team at Democracy Forward for doing this work. Because, honestly, you're clearly emerging as one of the biggest thorns in the Trump administration side, and we couldn't be more grateful to you for doing that. So please tell people how they can help you and this mission moving forward.

[Sky Perryman]

Right. Okay, so we want you to go to democracyforward.org and we want you to follow our social media accounts. And if you want to follow me, I'm happy to. For people to follow me. I try to be public on all my social media, but you should really follow Democracy Forward on social media. Separately, we have a website called democracy2025.org that has a lot of different organizations that we work with that is keeping track every single day of what the administration is doing and what the legal responses are. And so we encourage you to go to democracy2025.org to learn more. You can sign up. It's a good way to follow democracy. Democracy Forward's work, we're going to be doing this work past 2025, but this is really a resource for the moment. And then if you all are civil servants or public servants or you know someone that is, or you just are grateful that we in this country get to have people that swear an oath to our Constitution and to the American people and that work every single day for all of us without regard to politics, you can go to one of our projects called civil service strong.org where we have resources for civil servants, we have ways you can get engaged to support our public service. So Democracy Forward, follow us on everything you can. Find me if you need to. And then if you really want to dive deeper, democracy2025.org and if you want to thank a civil servant, go to.

[Lee McGowan]

Civil service strong.org well, that's amazing, Sky. I mean, obviously you've built a team, like a real team of legal policy, communications experts, everyone that wants to confront this extremism that we're all facing right now. But you want to play offense and not just defense. And I think that's really important. And I people, I think people really need to know that there are fighters out there who not only are going to fight what is happening, but still have a strong vision for the future. And that is clearly what you guys are doing. And I want to thank you so much for your work.

[Sky Perryman]

Thank you. Thanks for having me.

[Lee McGowan]

Thanks for coming. So that was Democracy Forward, Sky Perryman reminding us to keep saying, not on my watch, that the most powerful tool the Trump administration has is to convince us that we have no power. But that's simply not true. We need to know that there are people out there fighting every day, not just to hold off the worst of these horrible decisions, but to continue to move us forward to something better for all of us. That as Democracy Forward, we are exhausted, but we're not giving up. We just have to accept that this is a long term battle, but not an unwinnable one, that everyone from legislators to litigators to citizens must do their part. I want to thank sky for joining us today and you for caring enough about democracy to be here. Now go follow Democracy Forward on social media to keep track of the amazing work they're doing so we can all help them out, even on the hardest of days. I want you to have faith in this nation, in each other, and in our collective future. Until next week, PG Out. Before you go, I just want to thank the premium members of this podcast and encourage you that if you are not a member to consider supporting my work. As sky said, it is our responsibility to tell people what's going on, to let them know, to keep the work going and to support those telling the truth and working for the collective good in the world when all we see is propaganda working for profit and power. So if you aren't a member of Politics Girl Premium, Please go to politicsgirl.com and consider signing up. You will get this podcast ad free, along with my rants and bonus content sent directly to your inbox. So even if my work is silenced on social media, you will still get access to the truth. There is a link to sign up in the bio of this episode, but [e-mail] and as always, please like and share this podcast so we can grow the audience. Because the more people who have access to what is really going on, the more effective we will be at defeating these criminals. As always, thank you so much for your time and support. Politics Girl Podcast is written and performed by me, Lee McGowan in partnership with the Midas Media Network and produced and edited by Happy Warrior Entertainment. All rights reserved.