← The PoliticsGirl Podcast
The PoliticsGirl Podcast
The Return of Jim Crow: A Conversation with the ACLU’s Sophia Lin Lakin
00:53:15
Loading summary
Transcript31 lines
- [00:00]
A
Don't for a moment think that this stops with disenfranchising black voters. Once they are done suppressing black voters. Women are next, gay people are next, poorer white folks are next. Nobody is safe once the powers that be are allowed to dismantle democracy. Dismantling the Voting Rights act is not a black issue. It's an everybody issue. And I think we really need to act like it. Hello and welcome to the Politics Girl podcast. I'm your host, Lee McGowan. Let's get into it. So this past week, Chief Justice John Roberts finally got what he's worked towards for the last 40 years, the dismantling of the 1965 Voting Rights Act. The Court has been picking away at voter protections for years, but with the decision they made last week, it's all but gone. To give you some background, the Voting Rights act was written during the civil rights era as a way to dismantle the super racist Jim Crow voter suppression tactics that have been used incredibly effectively to disenfranchise minority voters, but particularly black voters in the South. After decades of activism, the Voting Rights act was finally passed in 1965, championed by Black activists and signed by Lyndon B. Johnson, a white president from a segregated state. And it was, and to this day, considered to be one of the most momentous pieces of civil rights legislation in United States history. We built America on slavery. But even after slavery was abolished and the 15th Amendment prohibited racial discrimination in voting, it was still unnecessary, necessarily difficult, for black Americans to fully participate in the nation they were now truly a part of. The Voting Rights act was created to make the unnecessary hurdles thrown in front of these particular voters illegal. And over time, those protections expanded to include language, minorities, native voters, voters with disabilities. And while the Supreme Court's conservative majority did not officially strike down the provision known as Section 2 of the Voting Rights act, their decision in the Louisiana v. CALA effectively gutted it, opening the door for unfettered racial gerrymandering around the country. After chipping away at the Voting Rights act For years, Section 2 was the last remaining provision that made it illegal to discriminate district maps or voting laws based on race or color. But now they can. So with this decision, six non elected people have essentially abandoned the last nationwide protection against racial discrimination in voting. This decision could end up eliminating 30% of the congressional Black Caucus, with Democrats losing up to 19 House seats, as well as 200 state legislative seats as well as state Supreme Court seats. I think I should remind people that Americans died for the rights and protections granted in the 1965 Voting Rights Act. And Donald Trump's court just did exactly what the white supremacists of this country have been wanting for years. They have all but overturned it. So if you think America is a white country where white people should be making all the decisions, then you just got exactly what you want. Realistically, we didn't even have a real democracy until the Voting Rights act, when black Americans truly had the ability to elect leaders that represented them. And now that's gone, and it should make everyone sick and outraged. To talk to us today about what the verdict means and what comes next, we are joined by Sophia Lynn Lakin, director of the ACLU's VOT Rights Project, a leading voting rights attorney who has dedicated her career to protecting and expanding voting rights across the United States. So without further ado, please welcome my guest director of the ACLU Voting Rights Project, Sophia Lynn Lakin. Welcome, Sophia.
- [03:47]
B
Thank you. Great to be here.
- [03:49]
A
Oh, well, thanks for joining me. So I was giving the audience a breakdown of where we stand right now post the Louisiana verse Calais decision, but I would love to hear your synopsis of the case and its ruling and where you think it lands the American voter as of now.
- [04:07]
B
Yeah, absolutely. This is a really abominable decision from the Supreme Court. It arose out of our attempt to try to make the districts in Louisiana more equitable for voters of color, for black voters in particular in Louisiana. We had sued Louisiana back in 2022 at this point, drawing maps that really didn't provide equal opportunity for black voters in that state to elect candidates that they wanted to represent them. And that violates the Voting Rights Act. At least it did. And we were able to get the courts, several courts, several judges to agree with us that the maps that were drawn in 2022, which provided only one district in which black voters had an opportunity to elect candidates that they of their choosing, that, that was, that diluted diminished the voting strength of black voters who constit about a third of the population of the state. So one out of six districts only were giving black voters in Louisiana an opportunity to elect candidates. Several judges agreed with us on this and we got new maps in place for the 2024 elections that were more equitable with two districts that Black voters could elect candidates of their choosing. Right on the heels of that, after this new map was in place, we got the self identified non black voters, which we've been saying mostly are white voters, have come in to challenge that new map, that new favor map as unconstitutional racial gerrymandering. And they took that up to the Supreme Court. It was actually argued two times before the Supreme Court, most recently this past October. And as a result, we now got a decision last Wednesday saying, yeah, no, Louisiana didn't have a reason to draw this new map. And by the way, we are so called updating the framework that we've been using for decades to prove unlawful vote dilution. That's what, you know, diminishing the voting strength of voters of color. We're just updating it in a way that basically makes it impossible in all but a very small subset of cases to actually enforce the protections of this particular provision of the Voting Rights Act. So it's really a devastating decision, a true gut punch to the civil rights movement. It means that we're going to see, and we've already started seeing this in Louisiana ground zero itself, where you have politicians rushing in right away to say, okay, we have a green light to gerrymander all over again on the backs of voters of color, diminishing their voices so that we can have more political power going into the midterm elections. And we're seeing that. Louisiana, we've heard Alabama calling a special session, Tennessee calling a special session. Mississippi already wanting to do that as well. So it's having real effects right away. And voters of color are going to be bearing the brunt of this.
- [07:11]
A
Yeah, I mean, I should remind people that given an inch, the Republicans have shown themselves to take a mile. Like the day the ruling came down, as you're saying, Louisiana was already ready to cancel their elections, elections that I understand it had already begun, in order to redraw their districts under this new provision. And, and I think I should also tell people, if they're not familiar with it, that the dismantling of Voting Rights act is not new. Like, this is not a new decision. The court has been chipping away at these protections for years. And like I think of the Shelby county decision, which was in 2013, and at the time, Ruth Bader Ginsburg, who was still alive, warned that this was kind of just the beginning. She wrote at the time in her dissent to the Shelby decision, that throwing out, which at the time, the thing they were throwing out was the requirement for pre clearance, which basically meant that the states that in the past had been super racist with how they did their things had to check through a federal system to make sure before they made big changes in their state. And they threw that out. And they were basically saying, we're throwing this out because we're not racist anymore. And no one's doing that anymore. And Ruth Bader Ginsburg said, you know, throwing out something that's working is like throwing out an umbrella in a rainstorm because you're not getting wet. And that's the thing. The Supreme Court basically claimed, as I understand it, that anti black racism was over and there was no need to keep monitoring previously racist state legislatures when they were drawing their maps. And then right after that, right after that decision, over 100,000 polling locations were closed that were in predominantly black, Latino, low income areas. They had a way of limiting non white and low income voters from coming out. They were making these decisions very strategically, but without these protections that they got rid of in the Shelby decision, these pre clearance protections, the southern states were suddenly allowed to get away with it. Right. The Voting Rights act in general was necessary because since the end of slavery, white America seems to have done its very best to make voting as hard as possible for black Americans, saying nothing of how black Americans basically live everyday life as second class citizens. And now thanks to this particular Supreme Court and this particular Supreme Court decision, not to mention all the anti DEI stuff we are seeing across the country, I feel like we're going right back down that road. Do you find that?
- [09:36]
B
Yes, we're absolutely turning back the clock and you're absolutely correct.
- [09:40]
A
Yeah.
- [09:40]
B
This decision is the culmination of a decade long conservative legal project. Shelby county, you named that. There was Another decision, Bernovich vs. Democratic National Committee that substantially weakened a different aspect of this Voting Rights Act. And now Calais, you know, there was this decades long project to dismantle the Voting Rights act piece by piece. And I think the really disingenuous part of the all of it is they've done it while pretending to leave it intact. Right. So even in Shelby county, for example, they said, well, there's still section two of the Voting Rights act to use. And then in Brnovich they said, oh, we're just providing some guideposts. But again, these guideposts made it substantially harder to challenge voting practices that really hurt black voters, voters of color, as you've noted. And then now again you have Alito saying, oh, this is just an update of this framework. But if you actually look at it and Kagan sort of taking on that mantle of Justice Ginsburg saying this renders the Voting Rights Act Section 2 of the Voting Rights act all but a dead letter. So you should call it for what it is. Don't pretend that this is in the tradition of what you've been doing. Don't pretend that just three years ago, in another case, Allen v. Milligan, the court actually upheld this framework and affirmed it. And now three years later, it's dismantled it, gutted it, eviscerated it, whatever, you name it. And it's really rolling back the clock and taking us back to a time pre Voting Rights act that was 1965 to a time of Jim Crow.
- [11:21]
A
Yeah. And I think we need to be really clear that this is something that Chief Justice Roberts has had in his mind since the 80s. He has always said he hated the Voting Rights Act. And I think he's given this opportunity, along with a lot of other conservative justices that were put there for this very reason, to really dismantle it, as you said, in bad faith, while pretending they're still upholding it. And I was listening to writer and commentator Sherilyn Ifill, and she said, I don't think you have any idea how furious a generation of black people are. We fought the confirmation of Thomas and Roberts and Alito. We worked to protect the voting rights for decades. We warned you that racism was not dead. But those warnings were just waved away by the media and the upper echelon of the private bar association by politicos. We warned you about police violence and segregation and prison warehouses and wealth inequality, and you didn't listen. And here we are. And I think I want to be really clear to my audience, it's not just black people and black folks in America and black voters that really should be upset. Those of us who believe in free and fair democracy, we should be upset here. Those of us who are progressive or believe in human rights and equality should be upset. Those of us who believe we should be moving forward and not back should be upset. Because don't for a moment think that this stops with disenfranchising black voters once they are done suppressing black voters. Women are next. Gay people are next. Poor white folks are next. Nobody is safe once the powers that be are allowed to dismantle democracy. Dismantling the Voting Rights act is not a black issue. It's an. An everybody issue. And I think we really need to act like it.
- [13:01]
B
And absolutely, I've been calling on voters of conscience to really think about the need to reinvigorate the civil rights movement. I mean, that's where we are at this moment. And we really need people to understand that we have really green lit a race to the bottom when it comes to manipulating district lines for the benefit of politicians. Right. They have every incentive now to draw district lines that accrue power for their own selves with impunity now. And that affects, as you say, everyone. Because you want a democracy where people, the people you vote for, are going to be accountable to you as voters who are going to champion the policies that you care about. And we're not just talking about the hot button social issues, but things like roads, flood relief, education, highways, transportation, economic opportunity, you name it. These are the people that should be responsive and should be listening to you as voters. And if politicians are able to redraw maps to dilute everyone's voices and to be able to choose their voters, then that's not going to be the kind of responsive government that we need. And that if we're going to call ourselves a democracy, that we should be aspiring to.
- [14:26]
A
Exactly. If you don't want a, you know, a data center in your backyard, you know, taking all your water, if you don't want local corporations dumping their, you know, chemical refuse into your water, those are things that you would have to say to your politician, listen, I don't want that. I don't want this new factory in my backyard. I don't want this thing that's giving off this amount of heat, you know, beside my daughter's house. And if your politicians don't need to listen to you because they've already drawn all the districts so that they get off, you know, they get everything they want and they can't lose, that doesn't benefit you either and has nothing to do with race at all. I mean, I want to be clear. You mentioned it at the beginning. Less than a week after this decision has come down. I mean, we're days after this decision. States are already moving. Right? You were talking about. Louisiana was not the only state waiting for this decision. Mississippi's legislature has already said they're going to redraw their maps. Governor Tate Reid has announced he's calling a special session to address the state's judicial maps. So we're not just talking about congressional maps, we're talking about the judicial maps, maps that had been on hold until they could wait for the Supreme Court decision, knowing it was going to come down in their favor, I believe, and waiting. And then they can make sure that the judges are on their side. Their judges are conservative. Florida has approved congressional maps that could add four Republican seats. But they waited to take a vote on it, on this Supreme Court decision, because they knew if they took a vote before that, it would be challenged in court as being deeply racist, which it is. But now they can go ahead with it. Governor Bill Lee of Tennessee has already called a special legislative session to review the congressional maps in light of the Supreme Court decision. And that state is already deeply gerrymandered and it's only going to make it worse. I think we have to acknowledge that this defiance of the Republican party, the defiance of the conservatives in this nation, the defiance of people who have always thought this was a white nation and they didn't want to make any concessions to anybody else is brazen. I mean Alabama was found by a federal court to be intentionally discriminating against black voters in their congressional redistricting. The court basically said Alabama's actions were nothing. And this is a quote, nothing other than an intentional effort to dilute black Alabama's voting strength. Now Alabama can come back in and get away with those choices. So the thing is, is that removing these protections, chipping away at the voting rights act, acting like the Voting rights Act is still there, but making sure it doesn't actually have any te, it works because just hours after the supreme court decision came down, as we were saying in the Shelby decision in 2013, North Carolina was right on it, right? They, their state legislature was right on it and they effectively eliminated same day voter registration. They slashed a week of early voting, they invalidated out of precinct ballots. And all of those things had been used disproportionately by black voters in the the election the year before, almost a million people had voted. The week of early voting in North Carolina, almost 10000 voters had registered using same day registration. Almost 10,000 ballots were cast out of precinct. And they were like ha, we can, we can stop all of this. So we have to be clear to people that like even though that court case back in 2013 ended up going in the North Carolina voters favor and they had to overturn it, by then the damage was already done. They already had had had their election and 188 federal and elected offices were give people were given positions under those broken provisions. These people are not kidding around. The clear intention here is to shut black voters out, to make it harder for minority voters to challenge these maps that diminish their representation and easier to discriminate against them at the polls. I mean I don't think it would be putting it incorrectly to say that they want to bring back these Jim Crow laws and they're going to run with the decision. This episode is brought to you by IQ Bar, our exclusive snack hydration and coffee sponsor. IQ Bar protein bars, IQ mix hydration mixes and IQ Joe mushroom coffees are the delicious low sugar brain and body fuel you need to win your day. Our days are long, they're stressful, they're packed with so many things that often if you're like me, you forget to eat or you don't eat enough healthy food or you don't drink enough water. That's why I'm happy that my boys carry IQ Bar products in their bag. I use the IQ Mix packages in my water because it hydrates with electrolytes and improves mood and boosts clarity. My boys, who are very careful about what they eat have the IQ Bars which are plant based protein bars with tons of fiber and no added sugar. All IQ Bar products are clean label certified entirely free from gluten, from dairy, from soy, from GMOs and artificial ingredients. They are packed with clean, delicious ingredients to keep you physically and mentally fit like magnesium and lion's mane. There's a reason over 20,000 people have given the company five star reviews. If you want to give IQ Bar Products a try, why not order their sampler pack? It has all the IQBar products and flavors. That's nine IQ Bars, eight IQ Mix Sticks and four IQ Joe Sticks. And right now IQ Bar is offering our podcast listeners 20% off all IQ Bar products including the Ultimate Sampler Pack plus free shipping. To get your 20% off, text PG to 64,000 text PG to 64,000 that's PG to 64,000. Messenger data rates may apply. See terms for details. So I have a dog and a kid and as much as we try, we are a shoes on household. So I require major power to clean my house but particularly my carpets, which is why I'm happy. Politics Girl is now partnering with Bulshot. Bullshot goes beyond surface cleaning. The formula uses a stain lifting foam to break down and lift the deepest stains fast. So fast you can actually see it working. It also does total odor neutralization. It's not masking smells with perfume. It uses an active neutralizer to permanently eliminate odors at the source. That way you get truly, truly clean fresh smelling space. Bullishot is safe to use on virtually all water safe fabrics including carpets, rugs, car mats, upholstery and even pet beds. You don't need to have a separate specialty cleaner. It dries fast, it's residue free and it even has the power to tackle old stubborn set in stains. Bulshot is made in the US and is a versatile stain remover that we can all use right now, no matter the mess. Bullshot's professional strength cleaners can handle it all, from carpet stains to pet Mistakes to kitchen grease. With bullshot's degreaser, you just shake and point and spray and you know it works because it's backed with 100% satisfaction guarantee right now, for a limited time, you can get up to 20% off bullshot and free shipping. When you text PG 20 to 64,000, that's PG 20 to 64,000. For up to 20% off and free shipping, text PG 20 to 64,000 message and data rates may apply. They want to bring back these Jim Crow laws and they're going to run with the decision.
- [21:25]
B
I mean, unfortunately, like you said, we're already seeing this. I mean, we thought, yeah, hopefully, optimistically, maybe naively, that because voting had already started in some of these places, like Louisiana. Right. Absentee ballots were already out on Saturday, was the first day of early voting. We saw tens of thousands of voters turning out to vote because, you know, there are actually other elections on the ballot too. So people are super confused as to what is canceled, what is not canceled. So in any event, apparently that was not a barrier. This level of confusion, chaos, a nightmare scenario, even some Republican legislators are calling this, right? This is not a good situation. But we don't care. We don't care about that. We're going to push ahead to figure out a new map that gives us more power. So at the end of the day, you know, unfortunately, we're living in a time where the pursuit of power really seems to be driving people to take extreme measures. And it's really unfortunate. I also want to pick up on a point that you flagged, that we're talking about Congress in many instances, but it is not just about Congress. And people really need to be aware of this. You know, the, the backbone of a lot of this work used to be in local elections. Your city councils, your state board, your school board elections. How are your kids getting educated? Who's making those decisions? Right. Those. There were. There are many of these cases and many, many of these new school boards that are representing their communities because of Section 2 of the Voting Rights Act. I don't think I can overstate how important Section 2 of the Voting Rights act has been to really pushing the representation forward in this country to really reflect the needs, the values, the representation of the diversity in this country and including in the literal face of the people who are representing us. But it comes from all the way down from Congress to state legislatures to judicial elections, to state local, all of these things. If you care about any of these local policies, which many of us do, housing, roads, Education, all of these things. This decision is going to have ripple effects all the way down to every level of government, because the Voting Rights act has been in place to try to ensure sure that there is equitable representation, and it's now been gutted. People should be really concerned about this.
- [23:49]
A
And to the people who are telling us that gutting the Voting Rights act has nothing to do with racism, those are the same people that told us that overturning Roe v. Wade had nothing to do with controlling women. The same people that are trying to pass the SAVE act that will limit women voters are the same people gutting the Voting Rights act because they know it's going to limit black voters. I think it's fair to say that the Voting Rights act, under this final decision, because they were always like, you still have Section two. You still have Section two. And it's like, now we don't have Section two. So I feel like it's fair to say the Voting Rights act is functionally dead. So from a legal perspective and from the ACLU's perspective, what do we do about that? How do you guys see us fighting back?
- [24:27]
B
Well, we do have some remaining legal tools. State court, state Voting Rights act, and there's been a big push and a big movement in recent years to get more states to adopt these protections. And state levels, we still have the US Constitution itself. Intentional discrimination.
- [24:43]
A
I'm like, do we? Do we, Sophia? We still have the Constitution.
- [24:49]
B
Well, we have those particular claims, but here's the reality, right? I don't want to sugarcoat this. I don't want anyone to think and become sanguine about the fact that a seriously important tool in the fight against racism and fight against racial discrimination has been taken out of our toolbox box in a very real way. And then state courts, state constitutions, state voting rights acts, for example, it's limited, right? It's limited to where we have those particular protections in particular states. And let's be honest, a lot of the states where bad things are happening aren't places that have those additional protections at hand. The Federal Constitution, the U.S. constitution, we have intentional discrimination claims, racial gerrymandering claims and the like. But the whole reason why Congress in 1982amended the Voting Rights act was to make it easier for people coming in to challenge these racist maps. Because intentional discrimination is really difficult to prove under the existing standards. It is very hard. And that's because it's really easy to mask, to make intentional discrimination, to make it really hard to ferret out. And Congress recognized this in 1982 and said, you know, we're going to make the type of thing you need to demonstrate a little bit easier because we know it is still happening. We understand the reality of this world. We know that people hide that what they're doing, and we need you to give you extra tools to ferret that out. So these are tools that are still available to us. In Alabama, for example, we have. We prevailed in an intentional discrimination claim. We are hoping that still holds and it should, in our view, but they are not easy claims to make out because of that. So what I would say is that we need people upset. We need people to come together and demand reforms. We need people to also hold their legislatures feet to the fire and say, this is not what we want. We want fair maps, we want fair elections and really take to the streets on this. That's the main way we are going to move forward towards that promise, that promise of our Constitution, the promise of the Reconstruction amendments to move towards a multiracial democracy. Otherwise, like I said, we're rolling back the clock and moving back towards the Jim Crow era. And I hope that that's not what people want.
- [27:16]
A
Yeah, no, it's deliberate. It's deliberate. And I want to clarify to people who are like, well, this is just a Democrat issue. It's just the Democrats looking out for people. No, listen, the 1982 changes that, that Sophia was talking about, that was during the Reagan years. Reagan signed that to make it easier for people to prove that there something had been done with racial animus. It was redone. It was resigned into law during the Bush years. Like, this is not just a Democratic issue. This is something that has been upheld since the civil rights era. And this particular court has been chipping away at it for years with deliberation. Now, I was listening to a congressional candidate who ran last term, Isaiah Martin, and he was saying, look, I'm not interested in complaining about this Supreme Court ruling. I am interested in action. Republicans have already begun their purge of blue seats, so the purge of red seats must begin. He goes on to warn blue states not to waste their time talking about it, but just to like, go ahead and draw their own new maps and show the Republicans what it looks like if you use their rules against them. And then I was listening to Kamala Harris, who seemed to reflect the same sentiment the same day because she took a. She. She was doing a huge speech the day that the ruling came down. And she said, look, this, this is how they play. They're strategic, they think long term. And they are ruthless. And if there's press in the room, I don't care if you quote me, we have to be ruthless, too. And I thought that was a very distinct way of saying, like, hey, you want to, you want to fight fire with fire, let's fight fire with fire. Because at this point, it is not. We're not pretending anymore that this is not what they want to do. They want to do it. And even Obama, who, you know, tends to be quite moderate when what he says, he said that the Supreme Court decision seems intent on abandoning its vital role to ensure equal participation in our democracy and to protect the rights of minority groups. But he went on to say, setbacks like this can be overcome, but only by citizens across the country who cherish democratic ideals, continue to mobilize, which I think you're part about getting onto the streets and then vote in record numbers. And I think that's the thing that we need to remember. If you look at a country like Hungary, which is, you know, a small country compared to our country, but genuinely that country, they had taken every single protection out of their own constitution. They had taken over the media, taken over the judicial system, and yet the amount of people that came out in that last election were able to overcome the regime, even though they had all the levers of power. And so I think that means to people, when we get to the midterms, we have to come out in such numbers that it detracts from what they are trying to do with all of their voter repression laws and with gerrymandering. And it's not just for congressional races, as we're saying. We need people to remember this is for lower profile elections too. It's judges, it's state leaders, it's school boards, because they're going to use this to completely change the face of the country. I mean, I personally think the ultimate goal here is independent redistricting, to have zero gerrymandering, to make it easier for citizens to have their voices heard and their vote counted. And to be clear, a ban on partisan gerrymandering was already a bill that was put out in the for the People's act and in the John Lewis Voter Rights Act. Those bills are already written, right? These bills are, were meant to expand voting rights, to reduce the influence of money in politics, and yes, to ban partisan gerrymandering. And I want to be really clear to anyone listening, that came out during the 117th Congress and all the Democrats voted for it and all the Republicans voted against it. We need to, as a People insist those bills come back because those type of bills are the bills that actually protect the people and not the politicians that protect our will and not what the people who pay the politicians want. I said in a recent rant, we need all of our maps to be drawn by impartial committees completely isolated from politics. We need to put every state on a grid if we have to. But the voters really should have the chance to choose their candidate and not have these candidates choose their voters. I mean, I understand the ACLU has already filed an emergency challenge to the Louisiana governor's attempt to suspend the election. What do you think's going to happen from that?
- [31:38]
B
So unfortunately, on Friday, shortly after we filed, the judge there denied our motion for a temporary restraining order. Case is ongoing at the moment and we are evaluating every single option. I mean, it is a real mess. I mean, voters are going to be disenfranchised by this one way or the other. We're not ready to give up in Louisiana, but we're still figuring out the best pathway forward here, given what has happened so far. You know, I want to double down on what you're saying, saying with respect to people need to demand changes. And look, during the earlier, you know, we're still in the middle, I guess, of the mid decade redistricting wars and race to the bottom is what I would call it. You got to a place where you had both Republicans, you know, a Republican in California and a Democrat in Texas, both pushing in, you know, in their own ways for reforms to ban Medica districting, redistricting. So I think that there is an opportunity for people to come together and say, this is not what we want here. This is just a stain on democracy. We need to figure out a way forward banning partisan gerrymandering, for example. You know, I don't know if that would solve everything, but it would certainly curb some of the excesses that are inevitably going to happen probably on both sides of the, the political spectrum and that.
- [33:00]
A
I mean, listen, I think the goal is to have no gerrymandering at all, be it racial or partisan or whatever. Like, I think all of us would like to see fair districts. We would all like to see our vote count. We would like to see our representatives actually representing us. And they don't have to if they get to draw the district. You know, as I always say, like a child drew a duck in a car. You know what I mean? Like, it's just like, I'll take these guys and I won't take these guys and I'll come over here and like, forget that group. They don't like me. That's, that's not how it's supposed to work. And it certainly doesn't work for us. I mean, to me, this decision that came down from the Supreme Court just reminds me that we should never, we shouldn't have these things that are so important to our country available to be overturned by a court. You know, like, much like women's rights should have been enshrined in the Constitution with the Equal Rights Amendment, which we still cannot get past. I feel like civil rights protection, you know, that came out of the Civil Rights act of 1964 and the Voting Rights act of 1965. I feel like they should have also become constitutional amendments because it should be way harder to overturn our basic rights than just having six politically appointed people make some call on us, you know? An April afternoon. I don't know if you're like me or not, but going into the warmer months, I like to wear less makeup. I find that when it's hot, I really want to look more natural. Like my skin is fresh and effortless. Plus makeup just looks pretty rough when it gets too warm. Which is why I like Jones Road Beauty. A lot of my friends had been raving about Jones Road Beauty because it's a minimalist makeup brand founded by makeup artist Bobbi Brown, who created these easy to use products to simplify our routines. And that seemed right up my alley. Most of us want to enhance our skin, not cover it up, and Jones Road Beauty does just that. Plus, it's particularly low maintenance in that you don't need brushes or a complicated routine to use it. If you want, you can just be spruced up in under a minute. Just use your fingers and go. If you like that effortless, natural, no makeup, clean beauty look, then this is something you're going to want to try. Their best selling product is their Miracle Balm, which is a makeup skincare hybrid that gives you a natural glow. It can be used as a tint, as a blush, a bronzer. You can use it to highlight or you can use it on your lips and eyes. I think it's actually a great thing to give to someone older as a gift because it's simple to use and it'll make them feel better about themselves without a whole lot of fuss. My mom would have loved it. Maybe their just enough tinted moisturizer is for you. Its lightweight, non clogging formula smooths and even your skin tone with just the smallest amount of coverage. It hides redness it looks natural and it feels like nothing on your skin. All the Jones Road products gives you that your skin but better look, which honestly is kind of what we all want. Especially in the spring and summer. If you want makeup that brings out your natural glow instead of hiding it, Jones Road is the way to go. For a limited time, our listeners are getting a free gift of their first purchase when they use the code PoliticsGirl at checkout. Just head to JonesRoadBeauty.com and use the code PoliticsGirl at checkout. And after you purchase, if they ask you where you heard about them, please support the show and tell them that we sent you jones road beauty beauty.com code politics girl this episode of the Politics Girl podcast is brought to you by Wild Grain Wild Grain is the first bake from frozen subscription box for sourdough breads, artisanal pastries and fresh pastas. All of the Items bake in 25 minutes or less and unlike store bought options, Wild Grain only uses simple ingredients you can actually pronounce and a slow fermentation process that's easier on your your stomach and richer in nutrients and antioxidants. No preservatives, no shortcuts. Wild Grain boxes are fully customizable. There's a variety box, a gluten free box, a vegan box and a new protein box. They even have their own slow churn French butter that pairs perfectly with their breads coming into the spring. I love the fact that I'm doing more salads, but salads are so much better when paired with warm sourdough right out of the oven. Wild Green is perfect for easy dinners, cozy weekend mornings with their pastries, or even the perfect grilled cheese sandwich on fresh, fresh bread. Imagine having fresh bakery quality bread, pastries and pasta at home without any trips to the store. And don't just take my word for it. They have over 40,000 five star reviews and have been voted the best food subscription box by USA Today three years in a row. Right now, for a limited time, Wildgrain is offering our listeners $30 off your first box plus Croissants for Life when you go to wildgrain.com politicsgirl and start your subscription today. That's $30 off your first box and free Croissants for Life when you visit wildgrain.com politicsgirl it should be way harder to overturn our basic rights than just having six politically appointed people make some call on us, you know, on an April afternoon.
- [37:43]
B
Well, I'm gonna have to say this even though I Know, you know, we have the result in the Calais decision, but the 14th and 15th Amendments, and the 15th Amendment in particular, right has, gives Congress the power to enforce the guarantees to ban racial discrimination in voting, right to provide equal protection of the laws. And the Voting Rights act, the Civil Rights act, these were all emanating right from the powers of Congress to give life, give a reality to the promises of the Constitution. So, you know, I'm at a loss about this, but I would say that these protections do emanate from the Constitution, are, in their way, enshrined in the Constitution. And it's really, like I said, a gut punch to the civil rights movement. It's a gut punch to all voters, I would say, in this. This country, at the end of the day, if they were to stop and think about the ramifications that we're going to experience as a result of this. This kind of new way of understanding the state of play.
- [38:48]
A
Well, I think they're understanding it the way they want to understand it. You know, I mean, I. I think what's so upsetting to so many people is this realization that this country really is just so deeply racist, like, we haven't moved past it. There was a black creator that I follow online. Her name is Leanna Dom, and she broke my heart because she wrote right after this decision came down, what did black people do to y'? All? You know what I mean? She was like, white people, I don't understand you. You enslaved us. You tortured us, you murdered our bloodlines, and you still feel like we have to suffer. And I was like, oh, God, you know, like, it's so heartbreaking and it's so unnecessary. And everything that this administration has done, and particularly this court recently has done has made it clear that we still don't respect black people the way we should. And I don't know how people can argue with that. At the end of the day, I think black Americans deserve be devastated because it just feels like it never ends. The attacks on them never end. When Alito wrote this decision, he said vast social changes in the south made considerations around race no longer necessary. That discrimination happened decades ago, and continuing to make these decisions based on it is unfair. I think the implication being it's unfair to white people. Clearly, this man has no. No idea what it's like to be a black American, nor does he care. But, like, we have always had racial polarizing and voting. It's. It's very real. In the south, there is a huge wealth gap between black and white Americans. There's a huge educational achievement gap between black and white Americans done deliberately. There's a major health outcome differences between black and white Americans, especially in the South. This idea that discrimination no longer happens is absolutely ridiculous. And I think we need to be very clear that black Americans deserve to be absolutely devastated by this, but that it's white Americans that, that don't feel this kind of discrimination, that don't hold this kind of deep set racism that must stand with them at this point to say like, absolutely not, not on our watch. The civil rights era is back and here we go.
- [40:56]
B
Absolutely everyone needs to come together to support this because as we talked about before, it has ramifications for everyone and it has ram to what we want, we believe our country to be. So if you are a person of conscience at all in this, you really need to dig deep and come out and support and be devastated by this decision as well and take the steps necessary to do what it needs to be to overcome this. Right? And that's what I'm talking about with respect to, you know, demanding change at all levels, at all levels of government, of course, at Congress as well. Show up, stay engaged. I think that's the other piece that I'm really concerned about from this decision is that people will become too devastated to stay engaged, it's not worth it and the like. And that is, that's going to be hard. I totally understand why that might happen. But people need to stay engaged. They need to show up and vote. They need to bring their neighbors to come and vote. They need to mobilize in order for us to continue to move forward. I mean, I'll take some solace in the sort of arc of the civil rights movement, the arc of how voting rights and civil rights and the like have moved forward in this country. It's right. One step forward, two steps back. One step forward, two steps back. That's part of the expansion and retrenchment that we see. There's, for every time there's movement in progress forward, there is, you know, retrenchment and backlash. We've seen that time and time and time again. And you know, this is a moment for us to figure out as I get country as a group of people of conscience and say that we won't stand for this and think maybe this is actually a time for us to think bigger, right? And say maybe we can, if we come together, we can have something better, right, than the Voting Rights act, something even more protective and move us forward even more. So I'm going to hold on to that optimism. But I. You know, people definitely deserve to be devastated. People definitely are devastated. This has been a deplorable time for our country.
- [43:00]
A
Yeah. I mean, I think the Trump era has clearly increased the conversation about who is American and who belongs in America. MAGA clearly sees America as a white Christian nation, which is what put the entire Republican Party that's been taken over by MAGA in opposition to everything from multiracial legislation to pro immigration laws to pro voting rights laws. And I think that, like, look, you're talking about our civil rights era has always been sort of like one step forward, two steps back, one step forward. It's a slow process. And I think the thing is, is that, like, obviously, the black community does not need. Need me to speak for them. But I will say on behalf of the white community that finds, you know, segregation nauseating, that found Jim Crow horrible, that feels embarrassed that that is such a. A huge part of our history from slavery on. I think if we don't do something now, America's gonna look a lot like it did during segregation. The Republicans that control the government in Louisiana, nearly every other Southern state, they're going to use this decision the Supreme Court just made as aggressively as possible to reshape the political landscape, to wipe out as much black representation as they possibly can. And everyone. Doesn't matter what color your skin. If you feel safe, sickened by the history of our country and what we have done to people, then this is the time to say, we're not doing this anymore, because this is a nightmare. But we absolutely cannot. You stop fighting. And I think what you're saying is people might feel so exhausted and demoralized by this. They're like, I can't do this anymore. I can't. I can't keep fighting this. Because I know that I was listening to the executive director of the Power Coalition for Equity and justice, and when this decision came down, she said, you know, without representation, what is citizenship? If I can't shape policy, if I can't have anyone that looks like me or has experiences like me or, you know, goes through this country the way I do, if those people are not making policies that address and reflect my experience, am I really a citizen here? Right. And I think we need to remember that this decision in Louisiana was not whether or not we have opportunity districts or if they are protected. It was about, like, who we are as a country. And the Supreme Court was like, yeah, we're a country that looks out for one group of people. And it's not you and I. I just think that we need to be clear with people that the people who are going to do this in the south are totally fine manipulating congressional maps to favor Republicans, but they think it is completely intolerable to manipulate congressional maps to favor black Americans. To draw districts for political reasons, fine. To draw districts for race based reasons, not fine. And the argument seems to be we can be racist if we want to. You never should have told us that we had to have majority black districts. Who cares if Black people are 40% of our state? That doesn't mean they get 40% of the representation. We should be able to draw maps however we want so they get as little representation as possible because this is a white country and we need white leadership. And I think any of us that think that is not true and don't believe in that need to be about as loud as possible. There's a Democratic mayor if people don't know in Birmingham, Alabama, and the mayor said civil rights laws don't survive because they're written on paper. They survive because people fight for them from generation to generation. The people who tried to keep our grandparents from voting are not finished, but neither are we. And I want to be really clear about that. Like, I might not have been around during the first civil rights movement, but I'm sure as hell around now. And so are the grandparents that tried to hold black Americans back, who tried to hold gay Americans back, who would love to hold women back. Those people still exist. So people like us who feel the opposite are the ones that need to come out now and do this. Because we have to fix this. If we want to be a country to be proud of, we have to fix the way we elect people in this country. But I think if this decision has shown us anything, we also have to fix the courts. The Supreme Court is clearly, irrevocably broken and this never should have been allowed to happen.
- [47:06]
B
Well, I mean, a couple of. A couple of things that, you know, struck me as you were talking about this because, you know, I think people should see this in the larger scope of what is happening, right? This question of who counts, who belongs, who's a citizen, right? It's not just in the voting sphere, although that is obviously a huge part of this larger project to redefine in this country who is American, right? We have the birthright citizenship question, right, that the aclu, Cecilia Wong, argued a couple of weeks ago at this point, right? We have the immigration enforcement across the board. We have all of these kinds of things, the sort of Attacks in the voting context on purported non citizen voting, this attempt to other rise certain people in this country. It's all part of this larger scheme to say some people just don't deserve to be here. Some people shouldn't be counted. If you think about the upcoming census, we've had a lot of fights about who should be counted in the census. How are you asking the questions about the census? Do you ask about citizenship? And then do you draw lines based on total population, everyone in this country who is, you know, either the beneficiary or not the beneficiary of certain kinds of actions, representation and the like, or do you draw it just based on citizen population? These are all part of the grand design, I think, of this current administration to really, like I said, redefine who it, who, who belongs in a way that obviously is very restricted to a certain segment of the population. So it's broader than this, but it is part of that larger project. And unfortunately, along with all these other kinds of policies across the board driving us to, you know, a country that honestly is maybe unrecognizable in a couple of years.
- [48:57]
A
Yeah, it will be unrecognizable in a couple of years if we don't stand up. I mean, I think the thing is, is that we cannot be downplaying what just happened. What the Supreme Court did was basically desecrate 60 plus years of black people's labor and sacrifice to get us where we are. The decision is truly nauseating and I really hope it makes white people wake up and realize that if they're going to steal one group's vote, they're going to end up stealing everyone's vote because they don't really care about our votes. This regime is currently bleeding us dry. They're telling us lies every single day. They are taking everything for themselves and they wouldn't have any of us voting if they could help it. So we certainly need to protect voting rights. As they come after each group at a time. Instead of saying, I'll just wait till they come after my group, you say no. As soon as they start coming after voting rights, you're in there because those are your rights, even if they don't start with you.
- [49:47]
B
That's absolutely right. People really need to show up for each other. Especially we have these elections coming up. People really need to show up and demand, you know, real representation, real policies that impact, you know, that they want to see and you know, do everything they can to push those forward.
- [50:05]
A
I couldn't agree more. I mean, thank you so much for talking to us today. Sophia, please tell people how they can help you help the ACLU as you move forward and fight some of these cases. What can we do to help you guys?
- [50:16]
B
Yeah, we have a democracy defenders program as well. So we would hope that people show up and volunteer. You can sign up on our website to do this and, you know, we'll have, as things happen, you know, different calls and to action, different ways that people can mobilize as we're seeing things shift across the country, as we're seeing hopefully new legislation being proposed in state legislatures, in federal and Congress itself as we move forward. So go ahead and sign up and there's going to be a lot to do. So we'll need everybody. Everybody turning out.
- [50:47]
A
Yeah. All hands on deck. Moment. Thank you so much, Sophia.
- [50:50]
B
Of course.
- [50:52]
A
So that was Sophia Lynn Lincoln of the ACLU reminding us that we need to be outraged by this abominable Supreme Court decision, that the time has come to reinvigorate the civil rights era. If we are being honest, it's possible we never really left Jim Crow. We simply put laws in place to stop people from acting on their worst instincts. But now those laws are crippled and we have to decide what comes next. I am sure the heroes of Selma couldn't have imagined that 60 years later we would still have to be shoring up what they built. But they also couldn't have imagined that we would simply allow it to fall. We cannot do that and we will not do that because the laws that protect one group protect us all. Our democracy depends on fairness and just representation. And that starts right here. I want to thank Sofia for joining us today and you for caring enough about democracy to be here now, be outraged and demand change. The time has come for us to think bigger and that work starts today. Until next week. Pto, before you go, I want to remind you that the American government is trying to silence any voices that they don't like. They don't care about the truth. They want state run propaganda. Which is why we need to be funding independent media. Mainstream media, Cable news and social media are now almost all exclusive, exclusively run by a handful of Trump supporting billionaires. So if you respect what I'm trying to do here, if you learn something from my podcast from my rants, if you would like to get this podcast ad free, delivered directly to your inbox along with my kitchen rants and TV appearances, then please consider becoming a member of Politics Girl Premium by going to politics girl.com and signing up. If you are already a premium member of this podcast. Thank you for your support, and if you're not a member, please consider becoming a patron of my work. If you want real knowledge in a world of lies, it's essential to support those of us out here still trying to bring it to you. There's a link to sign up in the bio of this episode, but also@politicsgirl.com and as always, please like and share these podcasts so we can grow our audience, because the more people who have access to this kind of information, the better. As always, thank you for your time and support. The Politics Girl podcast is written and performed by me, Leigh McGowan, and produced and edited by Happy Warrior Entertainment. All rights reserved.