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The PoliticsGirl Podcast
Trump Keeps Losing: A conversation with Democracy Forward’s Skye Perryman
00:39:52
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- [00:00]
A
They have disappeared people without process or attempted to do that. The American people started hearing these stories. These aren't violent criminals, right? They start hearing the stories of Mr. Garcia and others, and all of a sudden you have the public narrative and the public perception shift. People like Joe Rogan are out saying, what are we doing here? Are we becoming monsters? So we do believe that these crises can be a catalyst for change and that there is a way in this time to find unity with each other that might not have been presented in prior times because we all do have these common humanity, common elements, and people are concerned about their neighbors.
- [00:49]
B
Hello and welcome to the Politics Girl podcast. I'm your host, Lee McGowan. Before we begin, if you watch or listen to this podcast but don't subscribe to it, please consider doing so wherever you listen to your pods or on politics girl YouTube. Even if you watch this podcast on another channel, please consider going over to my personal page and hitting the subscribe button. I hate to ask for this, but it really does make such a difference to our ability to continue with this work. Okay, let's get into it. Honestly, every day feels like a fresh new injury with this administration. But we can see from the public's reaction to democratic leadership that we can't just pretend this is business as us acting as if we're dealing with a normal government who just needs normal opposition is a fool's errand. We need action like we're seeing from governors like Gavin Newsom, J.B. pritzker, and Wes Moore. We need support from pro democracy citizens like the veterans who recently held a sit in at the Capitol, to the abortion activists helping those in need, to other engaged outside groups willing to take the hit and fight back. So today we are talking to one of the best fighters in the game, Sky Perryman from Democracy Forward. Now, we've had sky on before, but if you haven't heard of Democracy Forward, they are a national legal organization at the front line of defending the American people in court. You know what Mark Elias and his team do to protect our elections and voting rights and Earthjustice does to protect our environment? Well, that is what Sky Perryman and her team are doing to protect our civil and legal rights. In early September, an article titled the Anti Trump Resistance that's actually working in the Atlantic called Democracy Forward the single largest source of Trump's legal troubles. Which is why sky was named one of the most influential people shaping policy by Washington magazine last year, because she and her team are out here standing up for us. One case at A time. So, without further ado, please welcome my guest, president and CEO of Democracy Forward and Democracy's Secret weapon, Sky Perryman.
- [02:38]
A
Welcome back. Sky. So good to see you.
- [02:41]
B
So good to see you. Listen, before we begin, for those of you who missed the last episode that sky was on. Sky, will you give us a little brief rundown of what Democracy Forward is and what you do?
- [02:52]
A
Yes. We're a legal organization. We go to court on behalf of the American people, on behalf of communities, organizations, and right now, our democracy as a whole. So when the government acts in ways that violate people's rights, that harm people that are unlawful, they can see us in court. And they do almost every single day.
- [03:11]
B
Yeah, I mean, honestly, I mean, we're looking at the Trump administration using their political power to roll back our rights right across the country, whether that's defunding the Department of Education, sending the military into our cities, using the Republican led Congress who has just basically abdicated all the responsibility to make laws. You know, right now they're trying to block the Epstein files from coming out, you know, this kind of thing, because the Republicans are just allowing them to rule by executive order. And this is where I think the courts really come into play.
- [03:40]
A
Absolutely. And in fact, on the Epstein files, we filed the first suit against the government. We're after documents that show what this administration has been doing, what they have been hiding is the White House communicating with the Department of Justice, the FBI, what's going on here? So we have a lawsuit already on on that. But of course, we have to go into court truly almost every single day in order to protect people who are being improperly targeted by the government, people that the communities and institutions that the President is seeking to intimidate or threaten. The last time we talked, we were talking about the President's abrupt decision at the beginning of the administration to try to cut off funding for all communities across the country that we were able to stop in court. So, you know, we work on a wide variety of issues, and the courts right now are a major lever of power for people to. The ability to go to court and initiate litigation against your government.
- [04:37]
B
Yeah. And it's so important that we're doing that because that is really with the legislative branch kind of abdicating their responsibility and the executive branch is kind of taking over. It really does come down to the judicial branch and the lawyers that are willing to take up the cases and the justices that aren't already bought and paid for.
- [04:53]
A
Absolutely. And in the last 230 days, I think, is where we are. I've lost count, but it's over 200 days. It feels like 200 years. But I was gonna say, in the last 200 or so days, you've seen nearly 400 federal cases be filed across the country. Judges that were appointed by Democrats, judges that were appointed by Republicans, judges that were appointed by President Trump himself are all ruling against the administration. So for folks that are tuning in, these are not cases that are happening in one special court with some judge that people feel like they have in their back pocket. That's not how this works. These are cases being filed across the country, and the courts are ruling against the administration because what the administration is doing is blatantly unlawful and also really harmful to people.
- [05:38]
B
Yeah. I mean, I recently watched a video of Pete Hegseth, and they were talking about that boat they blew up in international waters, and someone was saying, like, how can you even say that's lawful? He was like, everything we do is lawful. Everything we do is fair. And I was like, bro, that's first of all, a terrible answer. But secondly, like, no, it's not. That's the reason you keep losing in court, because you keep breaking the law. You know, this isn't political at this point. You are breaking the law. You are being. It is illegal what you are doing.
- [06:04]
A
Yeah. And, you know, last week, the president has lost so much in court. He's intimidating lawyers. He's intimidating judges. The Department of Justice sued judges in the District of Maryland, a federal court about. About 12 of them or so. They sued them because they were ruling against them like that. You can't do that. A judge that was appointed by President Trump got assigned to adjudicate the case, and last week said, this is so blatantly unconstitutional, it is a violation of the separation of powers, and dismissed the suit. So, you know, we are seeing brave people. The lawyers, the clients. I mean, these are a lot of our clients. They're everyday people that are just saying, you're not going to take my community down without me going to court. Right. They're everyday people. And then, of course, the federal judges that are really working at this moment to uphold the Constitution and to protect the American people.
- [06:55]
B
Yeah, Well, I mean, I think we need to remind people that the Justice Department is not supposed to be an arm of the executive branch. The Justice Department is supposed to represent the American people, not the American president. And right now, the Justice Department, under Attorney General Pam Bondi is. Is really acting like Donald Trump's personal lawyer. Like, you're saying the Justice Department is Suing federal district courts for not ruling in their favor, like, this kind of stuff is bananas. And we need to keep reminding people that this is absolutely not normal so that we don't end up normalizing it.
- [07:24]
A
Right. It is not normal. And it's true. You know, the President really views the Department of Justice like his personal lawyers. And by the way, on the Epstein files, that's why we're suing, because we've requested records. We want to understand what is the Department of Justice, what is going on, what are they hiding, what are they covering up? And the Department of Justice didn't respond as they should have under the law, to that. And so we. We took him to court and we already have a schedule in that case. So that's what. That's what we are doing every single day at Democracy Forward. That is what other legal organizations across the country are doing. That is what our state attorneys general. I mean, you're in la, and we saw a ruling just this week saying what we all know, which is that the President cannot use the military on the streets of LA for domestic purposes because of a lawsuit that your Attorney General in California filed. So these suits are really important and they're winning.
- [08:15]
B
Yeah. And we have to remind people that when an attorney general wins in a state like, say, California, it really throws sand in the gears of what this administration is trying to do fast and hard. You know, they're trying to move, move fast and break things. Right. So their plan was to send the military into Chicago next. Right. But this ruling has kind of stopped them up a bit. They're, like, holding off now. They're talking about doing ice instead of the military. It's very. It's the courts that are really getting in the way. And it's sand that we need to be throwing in these gears of autocracy.
- [08:44]
A
That's right. And I think that one big lesson that we've seen in our work that, that you just illustrated with the LA lawsuit, but we see it every day, is that this administration responds to power. And so people in this time have to operate from a sense of their own power. The administration wants you to think you are powerless. They're doing a lot of things to threaten people, to make them feel powerless so that they can push forward with their own agenda, not govern for people and, frankly, tank American democracy. And what we have to do is respond with our power. So there's a lot of ways you feature, you know, here. I love the. I'm such a fan of the podcast of ways that people can Use their power in their everyday life. One lever of power that people have is the ability to sue the government when it's violating your rights. And so we approach our cases from that perspective. We have seen in our cases just in the last few weeks, the government backing off of things. You just said they were, you know, going to go, you know, right into Chicago. Well, you heard the governor of Illinois come say, do not come to Chicago. You've seen a local law leader say that. And then you have these court decisions and it's going to take all of that together. But when their people are using their power, we do see that the administration at times will back off. So we've had a number of cases recently where the administration has either not appealed the cases that we've won, so we're not going to the Supreme Court. They've not appealed those cases where they've just given up in court and said, you know, we're just going to go ahead and agree that's not on all the cases. And certainly there's a lot of people being hurt right now. I wish it was on more, but we are starting to see this and what that means is that this pushback is working. It's not. It's not perfect. And we sure do need a whole lot more of it and we need more people engaged in this work. But we are seeing that the pushback is effective and can work.
- [10:41]
B
Yeah. And also, like you said, I mean, they respond to power. It's. It's when you say no that you really have a chance. I think if you look at the law firms that capitulated, or if you look at the universities that capitulated or you look at whatever, he still comes after them anyway. There is no. You don't get away with it by just giving him what he wants. It just makes you look weak in his eyes. It's power that they respond to.
- [11:03]
A
That's right. I mean, look, Vice President Pence did every single thing that the President ever wanted him to do, near as I can tell, except for overturn the 2020 election. And the minute that he did that, you had the President's base calling for his. Frankly, they were calling for his execution and saying he should be hung. I mean, it's terrifying and it's unbelievable. But it's happen in this country and it shows you that there is no negotiation with this administration and there is no way to keep your head down with an administration like this. What you have to do is stand in your power. And that can be scary. And so at Democracy Forward, in addition to going to court, we've been very focused on building community, because community creates the conditions for courage. We don't have to do this alone. We aren't alone. And we can stand side by side with each other and push and do what we need to do in this time, in this very scary time. And so we have a number of initiatives at Democracy Forward. You and I have talked about dinners for Democracy, Coffee for Change, but all of these things that are really about people finding community with each other, because in that community, we're going to find our courage.
- [12:17]
B
Yeah. I mean, last time you were here, you said the most powerful tool the Trump administration has is to convince us that we have no power, but that is simply not true. So, I mean, six months in, you know, with half of Project 2025 already accomplished, even though they weren't going to do any of it. How are you feeling? How are you feeling?
- [12:36]
A
It's terrifying and disappointing and sad and all the things we want to say about it. To see what individual Americans are experiencing every day in this country. Communities terrorized, communities pushed underground, school children not knowing whether they're going to come home to their parents. I mean, that's happening in this country. And at the same time, we are seeing people be energized and people of all different political backgrounds or ideological backgrounds be energized. In, I believe it was early February, we filed a case against the administration's crusade against diversity, equity and inclusion and accessibility. And the first line of that case said, in the United States, there is no king. And that was because what the administration was trying to do and has been trying to do, is to tell people, you can't say these words. You can't put these words on your website, really act like a king. By June of this year, we saw the no Kings protest take off. And we, you know, it was this first or second largest mobilization of people in American history, peaceful mobilization of people in American history. There's more protests this weekend. I'm from. I grew up in a red community in Waco, Texas. Every weekend there are protests right now because of community members who have been disappeared because of the impacts that people are having. So while we have to hold the tragedy and the terror that people are experiencing, and we cannot normalize that in any way. I think six months in, we can say, the emperor has no clothes. I mean, this administration, I mean, President Trump, he's losing public support. The policies, they've not done anything that's made any American's life easier. And they're losing in court all the time, even in front of judges that he himself appointed. And so I think that should provide people a glimmer of hope and determination because it's going to take a lot of work. But I do see that we can push back and overcome this if we all work together to do it.
- [14:42]
B
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- [18:03]
A
It's going to take a lot of work, but I do see that we can push back and overcome this if we all work together to do it well.
- [18:10]
B
At Democracy Forward, you often talk about this idea of using the current crisis as a catalyst for change, right? That it is important that when harmful and anti democratic things happen, first of all they don't go unchallenged. Right? But you've built this team of legal policy communication experts to confront the extremism that we're facing. But along with, you know, playing defense, it feels like you're also a bit on offense, that you still have a strong vision for the future as opposed to a lot of people right now that are feeling like we're cooked, it's over. Forget. Doesn't seem like Democracy Forward subscribes to that.
- [18:48]
A
We don't we're democracy forward, and we are committed to making sure that people can move forward. I tell people this all the time. We're not democracy backward, and we're certainly not democracies, you know, sideways. We're democracy forward.
- [18:59]
B
Democracy, sit down and weep.
- [19:01]
A
Exactly. I mean, and in some ways, we need to really remember who we are and remember our history. Okay. The civil rights struggle, the struggle that the abolitionists undertook against the enslavement of people in this country. Immigrants, rights struggles, women in LGBTQ rights struggle. I mean, these have been. These were not things that people snap their fingers and all of a sudden things got better. Right. We need to stop looking for a shortcut. I say it all the time. The only way out is through. And as we move through this together and do brave things, we can create a new future. Think about immigration. When this administration started, the president felt that immigration was a strong issue for him and that if he could just point to and vilify immigrants, he could get away with anything. What has happened is this administration has overreached. They have sent ICE into houses of worship. We have been in court, we've sued, we've challenged it. We've won one court order. We filed another lawsuit. We're hopefully going to win another court order to keep ICE out of our clients houses of worship. They have disappeared people without process or attempted to do that. The American people started hearing these stories. These aren't violent criminals. Right. They start hearing the stories of Mr. Garcia and others, and all of a sudden, you have the public narrative and the public perception shift. People like Joe Rogan are out saying, what are we doing here? Are we becoming monsters? So we do believe that these crises can be a catalyst for change and that there is a way in this time to find unity with each other that might not have been presented in prior times, because we all do have these common humanity, common elements, and people are concerned about their neighbors. And so that's a lot of our work at Democracy Forward is exploiting that overreach and using these crises as a catalyst for change. At the same time, the president and his administration are harming people every single day, and we have not been able to stop all of that harm. And I want to just give a lot of voice and space to the fear and terror that people are experiencing right now that no single lawsuit is going to stop, but that if we all work together with all the tools we have, we can stop.
- [21:17]
B
Yeah, it's like a drip, drip, drip on a stone kind of a thing, you know, where Like I think of your recent work, I'm thinking of cases like members of Congress suing federal immigration detention facilities for, you know, blocking their ability to engage in oversight, which is their job. Like when members of Congress show up to see what's going on at these ICE facilities and then they're sent away or in some cases arrested themselves. Right. I know you've got people suing over unlawful ICE arrests at courthouses, even not just houses of worship, but at courthouses where people are just trying to do immigration the legal way and they are met with this illegality. I know there's school districts right now who are suing the Trump Vance administration for blocking billions of dollars of funding that is supposed to come to them.
- [21:59]
A
And by the way, that one, they've backed off. That's one of my recent examples. We sued and before we even had to take the case through the full system, the administration got a bunch of public pushback because of the lawsuit and backed off.
- [22:14]
B
What are some of the other big cases that you're happy with right now or that, you know, are, you know, you're going to be standing up for justice in these ones?
- [22:21]
A
Well, I mean, we're, you know, you mentioned the members of Congress. Let's emphasize, let's focus on that. I know you talked about it before, but just to be very clear that the ICE facilities have been keeping individual members of Congress away from the facilities which the individual members of Congress have a specific right to conduct oversight, particularly the ones that that have sued. So that is one that we are aggressively litigating to make sure. What, what is it that the administration's hiding? Right. Why is the administration trying to hide from Congress? So that's certainly one we're very pleased with, forcing the administration to walk away from withholding states $6 billion of public funds for public schools. They backed away from that. We have recently won a case on what the so called Dear Colleague letter which the administration put out on Valentine's Day that would have robbed institutions of higher education, schools, universities of funding if they did not subscribe to a very misguided version of the administration's, quote, civil rights, which is not at all, which is an anti equity agenda. We are really focused right now. We're looking at what rights people have in places like Washington, D.C. which is where a lot of our staff is and where a lot of people in communities are, where the President is abusing his power. Very pleased to see that the D.C. attorney General sued again this week on the militarization and military overtake of D.C. we are very excited about the cases that we are bringing to Shine a Light. So we're bringing a lot of cases. The Epstein case, I've noted, but we're doing a lot. We filed over a thousand requests already to federal agencies and the federal government to have them turn over documents and communication so that the American people know what they're up to. And guess what? They're not responding the way they should. So we're filing just a load of cases to Shine a light, and we'll continue to be able to come back and talk to you about those. Yeah.
- [24:07]
B
And I have to tell you guys, like, sky is talking to me after a full day of work, a full day of, like, doing this job. She's like, okay, Lee, let's do this.
- [24:14]
A
Let's do it.
- [24:14]
B
I mean, look, here's the thing. On my anniversary this summer, in July, there was a lawsuit filed where cities and doctors and small businesses were suing to stop the Affordable Care act from being rolled back because it was threatening the coverage for millions of people. Like, I'm curious, like, how's that one going?
- [24:31]
A
Because we won the preliminary injunction, saved health care accessibility for over 2 million people.
- [24:37]
B
Because we're on the Affordable Care Act.
- [24:39]
A
We're on that.
- [24:40]
B
And, like, without the protections of, you know, preexisting conditions, genuinely, if Sky, I would be dead. So, like, that is so important to me that you're, like, fighting for that kind of thing.
- [24:50]
A
Well, we are, and we're winning. And I think the thing we want people to ask, like, why? Why would you come into office and then try to deprive people of their health care? Right. Why would you come into office and do a range of the things that this administration has done? What is the why behind that? And because the things that they are doing are so unpopular and harmful to all people, by the way, not just to people who didn't vote for them, but to all people. Many of the cases that we litigate, that what the administration has done is actually harmed red communities and rural communities far more than, you know, cities and more blue areas, truly. And so that's where. And this is. I'm going to kind of pivot to, like, what's ahead. So you're have an administration that's not governing in any way, that's helping people, that is pursuing openly unpopular things. Like, so unpopular project 2025 was. They wouldn't even say in the election that they were going to do it. So then what is their plan for elections coming forward? Right.
- [25:54]
B
I think their plan is to call Texas and gerrymander or get us into war and, you know, suspend them.
- [26:01]
A
So that is what we're very concerned about. Right. And so we have been representing voters in the state of Texas, organizations representing thousands of voters in the Texas Supreme Court, seeking to, you know, speak out against and advocate against the governor of Texas, that, at the behest of Trump, is even seeking to remove certain lawmakers from office. So we're engaged in all of that, but we want the American people to be paying attention, because it really is going to take all of us demanding more and demanding better and being really resolved that we are not going to let them undermine our election system. So you have a range of lawsuits that are being filed already by voting rights advocates, and I know that you'll see a number of other lawsuits filed in the coming days, because this administration's already showing you what they're going to do because they don't want to be held accountable to people.
- [26:50]
B
Exactly. I mean, I think they know for sure they would lose the house in a heartbeat based on what they've been doing right now. I mean, you've got SNAP benefits going away this week. You've got the John deere factory firing 3,000 workers. You have farm workers in Arkansas being like, we're all not selling any of our product. You've got, you know, soybean farmers saying we don't have any deals because of the tariffs. Like, this isn't.
- [27:12]
A
And usaid, I mean, they decimated usaid. That's one of our cases. But they've unfortunately decimated, decimated usaid. And that not only makes us unsafe at home and abroad, but it also endangers core sectors like our agricultural sector.
- [27:26]
B
Yeah. So this isn't just like owning the libs. This is, you know, decimating the American population. I mean, and you're talking about Americans being aware. You said you want the American people to be paying attention, especially to what they're doing to our voting rights right now, but even, like, just to our national security. I know that There is a U.S. district Court for the District of Columbia that just granted a preservation order in your case against the Department of Justice requiring the State Department to preserve an account for signal messages. Because they. They were doing all that stuff over signal, and then they were trying to hide it from us. And I feel like you had a case that said, no, keep Marco Rubio signal things. Keep Secretary of Defense.
- [28:05]
A
That was a big win. Just. That's a big win. Signal gate. And do you remember, I mean, they wanted to make an entire national crisis over Hillary Clinton's emails. Do we remember that? Right? Yeah.
- [28:18]
B
She was going to be bad and order creme brulee. And this guy is literally saying we're doing a strike on Libya and then.
- [28:23]
A
We have national security level information being transmitted on signal and not being preserved. And so we are really proud of the team that won that court order this week.
- [28:35]
B
You should be. I'm really glad you guys are out there doing it. I mean, your team at Democracy Forward just really seems to be looking out for us in so many different areas. You know, not just voting rights, not just Epstein files, not just like you're saying with Signal Gate. Like you made a very clear statement at the end of August regarding the Trump administration's attempt to fire Lisa Koch from the Federal Reserve Board of Governors. Tell us why that matters. Right now the headlines are packed with data breaches and regulatory rollbacks and fishing expeditions that make us all vulnerable. But you can do something about it. Deleteme is here to make it easy, quick and safe to remove your personal data from online. The fact of the matter is we are all at risk. How many times have you gotten a text or an email or a letter saying your data has been compromised? It's very upsetting. But the good news is Deleteme can help. Deleteme does all the hard work of wiping you and your family's personal information from data broker websites. Sign up and provide Deleteme with exactly what information you want deleted and their expert experts will take it from there. You will then get personalized privacy reports showing what they found, where they found it and what they removed. Deleteme is constantly working for you, monitoring and removing the personal information you don't want on the Internet. It's not just a one time service. As someone with a very active online presence, privacy is obviously very important to me. But you don't have to do what I do to feel the same way. You hear these stories about hackers obtaining names and addresses and phone numbers and Social Security information, even your family's information. So I'm just very glad that there is groups like Deleteme available to help keep our information from falling into the wrong hands. So take control of your data and keep your private life private by signing up for Delete Me now with a special discount for our listeners. Get 20% off your delete me plan when you go to JoinDeleteMe.com politicsgirl and use the promo code politicsgirl at checkout. The only way to get 20% off is to go to JoinDeleteMe.com PoliticsGirl and enter the code politicsgirl at checkout, that's JoinDeleteMe.com politicsgirl with the code politicsgirl have you ever tried to buy wine and have no idea what to get? There's just too much to choose from and you just stand there looking at the giant wall until you end up with the same three wines you already knew. Well, that is why I'm so excited to talk about our sponsor, Naked Wine Wines. Naked Wines is a wine club that directly connects you to the world's best independent winemakers so you can get world class wine delivered straight to your door. Naked Wine brings you amazing wines straight from the wineries for up to 60% less than you would pay in the store. By cutting out the extra costs, like the middleman markup, winemakers can pass the savings right on to you without skimping on quality. The company has been around for 15 years and it backs over 90 independent winemakers around the world to make wine that you love to drink. For our first order, I filled out a form to explain the kind of wine I liked, the kind of wine I didn't like, what I was looking for, and how many bottles of each I wanted. And they did all the work for me. It was so easy and the wines were so good. So step into fall with a jammy glass of Cabernet or show up at the back to school party with a bottle of Pinot. Your hosts will definitely thank you. So join me in the naked wine community. Head to nakedwines.com politics girl click enter voucher and put in my code Politics Girl. If you put in both the code and the password, you will get six bottles of wine for just $39.99 with shipping included. That's $100 off your first six bottles at nakedwine.com politicsgirl and use the code and password politics girl. That's six bottles of wine for 39.99. You made a very clear statement at the end of August regarding the Trump administration's attempt to fire Lisa Koch from the Federal Reserve Board of Governors. Tell us why that matters.
- [32:21]
A
Well, there's a whole lot of reasons it matters for dollars and cents reasons. The president's attempt to dismantle or to politicize something like the Federal Reserve can of course hurt. It can hurt all Americans where it hurts the most, right in their ability to have livelihood and the stability of our economy in our currency. And so you see these, these really concerning signs that the administration wants to politicize something that is intentionally independent. That's one issue.
- [32:54]
B
I mean, he's trying to get rid of the chair, Jerome Powell, right now.
- [32:58]
A
Yes, exactly. So that is going to be something that everybody's got to watch and speak out about. But, you know, another issue is this administration has been removing and targeting black women across the federal government. And so it's no mistake that in its attempt to politicize the Fed, which is, by the way, that attempt is not only horribly unlawful, but deeply unpopular with everyone because people understand and want our currency and our monetary system to be managed in a way that is independent. And also, by the way, in Project 2025, there are a range of proposals to politicize it. And so you see some of that. You see some of that starting to play out. But it's no mistake that the governor that they have targeted, the Federal Reserve governor they have targeted first is a black woman. So that's the other thing going on there. And then, of course, the third thing going on is what we see across the federal workforce, which is a real attempt to dismantle various pieces of the federal government. And the federal government that holds up a lot of the services and information that we all rely on. So there is a lot embedded in that case. A lawsuit has been filed, as you probably saw, and, you know, we're continuing to monitor it.
- [34:14]
B
Yeah. I want people to know that if you are curious what cases Democracy Forward is working on, you can see them all, all the lawsuits that they're engaged in directly on their democracyforward.org website. They actually have it all laid out there, clearly. So if there's a particular interest of yours that you're like, what's happening with this case? Or what's happening with this? Or what are they doing about whatever it is? You can actually go to the democracyforward.org website and see all the cases and all the breaking news you guys are doing. I mean, like, for me, I love that you have a fight going on in behalf of a coalition of libraries and museums and cultural organizations. Right. To protect, to protect us from, like, keep our history alive, you know?
- [34:53]
A
Absolutely. We do that work. We also do work at the state and local level because this extremism and Project 2025, it was alive and well in many communities that served as sort of a breeding ground for this kind of extremism. So we've not abandoned that work. We have a whole team that focuses on that work. I would just encourage your listeners. If you go to democracyforward.org, if you sign up for our newsletter, we do not spam you. You know, we send good information out, but you don't get, you know, 15 million emails asking to rush $5. You know, we don't do that. So. So if you. If you want to be more informed, that's another thing you can do. And then, of course, just follow our social media channels.
- [35:29]
B
Yeah. And like you said, you have, you know, coffee things and dinner things so people can build more community of, you know, knowledgeable people who really do want to do the right thing by our nation rather than just lying down and letting these people roll right over us.
- [35:43]
A
Absolutely. You know, I said it last time we talked, but I'll continue to say it. That what our ask for everyone. We understand not everybody's a lawyer. Not everybody's going to go to court. That's fine. That's not what you have to do. Everybody's got to make up their mind what side of history they're going to be on and then figure out what we can do in our own lives to do that. Whether that is protecting a local school, whether it is just like, encouraging teachers and parents, whether it is speaking out, registering people to vote, talking to community members who might not agree with you, but who are starting to see what's happening and asking. And by the way, I grew up, like I said, in a red community, and I'm hearing this, have those conversations. Let's find some common ground. We want everybody to do what they can do, but we really want everybody to know that we cannot give up our power. The number one way that people give up their power, Alice Walker, we know this quote. The number one way that people give up their power is believing that they don't have any. And so we really want people in this moment to tune out the bluster from the White House that's trying to make you believe that you don't have power. Yeah.
- [36:49]
B
Well, listen, I think you and I both understand this kind of extremism. We're seeing what is happening around us, you know, everything that's unfolding from the military in our streets to people being worried they're going to lose their health care. It makes people feel overwhelmed and anxious and angry and disconnected. Right. But we definitely have a far better chance of defeating this if we work in community, if we work together, if we don't feel so alone. I think this is all really important stuff that people need to remember. And like you're saying, you don't have to, you know, be part of a lawsuit. You can be part of making sure your local library doesn't lose any of their books.
- [37:22]
A
Absolutely. You can speak out. There's community members and religious organizations and churches right now. They're accompanying immigrants to courthouses. We have a case right now suing the administration because they're trying to arrest people at courthouse. They're trying to arrest people who are showing up to participate in our legal process. Right.
- [37:42]
B
The people that are doing it legally.
- [37:43]
A
Yeah. Right. This is not. This was never about immigration policy. They've shown themselves for sort of who they are. But there are people now that are saying, you know what? I'm going to go with you. I'm going to go with you to court. I'm going to show up and be there with you. And a lot of these communities are posting experiences and telling these stories and helping the American people understand what's going on, but also creating some community and power for people who are being targeted. And so that's really amazing, too.
- [38:11]
B
Yeah, no, it is incredibly amazing. And I really want to thank you so much for joining us today, Sky. I think more importantly, thank you for the amazing work you're doing because I know that you could be doing, you know, big wig law firm stuff where, you know, you're basically on suits and you've chosen instead to help us. So I really appreciate it. As one of my favorite things in your merch store says, this might not be the moment we chose, but it's the moment we were made for. So thank you so much for doing the work you're doing and for keeping up the fight.
- [38:40]
A
Yeah. And thank you for having me on and we'll pass along all of your great comments to our team and thanks to everybody that's tuning in to learn more.
- [38:50]
B
So that was Sky Perryman reminding us to stand in our power, that this administration is doing everything it can to make us feel powerless, but we aren't that we have to remember that there are groups like Democracy Forward proving that every day. According to sky, if we move through this together, then we can do great things. But part of the struggle is just not giving up to keep paying attention to what they're doing, to our health care, to our education, to our voting rights, to our civil rights, and then responding with action. I want to thank sky for joining us today and you for caring enough about democracy to be here. Now go follow Democracy Forward on social media and keep track of the amazing work they're doing so we can all help them out, even on the hardest of days. We need to have faith in this nation, faith in each other, and faith that our collective future future can be a whole lot better than this. Until next week, Peachy out. The Politics Girl podcast is written and performed by me, Lee McGowan, and produced and edited by Happy Warrior Entertainment. All rights reserved.