Two Separate Realities: A Conversation with former Evangelical Christian fundamentalist, Tim Whitaker

Summary

Podcast Summary: "Two Separate Realities: A Conversation with Former Evangelical Christian Fundamentalist, Tim Whitaker"

Podcast: The PoliticsGirl Podcast
Host: Leigh McGowan (Meidas Media Network)
Guest: Tim Whitaker, former Fundamentalist Evangelical, Founder of The New Evangelicals
Date: September 23, 2025

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Episode Overview

This episode explores the alarming rise and mainstreaming of Christian nationalism in American politics, drawing on the personal experience and advocacy of former Evangelical insider Tim Whitaker. Host Leigh McGowan and Whitaker delve into the roots, tactics, and dangers of white Christian nationalism, its impact on democracy, and the increasingly fascist, theocratic turn in the U.S. They discuss recent events—including the co-opting of national tragedies (such as the murder of Charlie Kirk), manipulation of youth, coordinated right-wing propaganda networks, and the urgent need for a broad, organized, values-driven resistance.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Looming Threat: Christian Nationalism as Existential Crisis

• Christian nationalism is no longer a theoretical concern. Whitaker and McGowan emphasize it is now fully embedded in American politics, with real consequences for democracy, women’s rights, marginalized communities, and the rule of law.

  “This is… I think last year I was saying there's a huge threat of Christian nationalism or fascism. No, now it's here... It's embedded in American politics and we're seeing the fruit of it.”
  — Tim Whitaker [02:27]

• Potential rollback of women's suffrage and basic rights.

  “Make no mistake, women's suffrage is on the table. You think they aren’t working on it? I need people to wake up. Like, this is on the table.”
  — Tim Whitaker [00:00], reiterated [46:13 and 46:47]

  “We are getting rid of the First Amendment right now. There's no way they're not going to get rid of the 19th.”
  — Leigh McGowan [00:12, 46:47]

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2. Defining Christian Nationalism & Its Historical Roots [03:55–08:19]

• What is Christian Nationalism?

  • An ideology centered on the belief that white conservative Christians have a divine, historical mandate to rule America.
  • Often tied to the idea that the U.S. was founded as a Christian nation and that current politics must return to and enforce this vision.

• Key tactics and goals:

  • Imposing state-sponsored Christianity in schools and government.
  • “Seven Mountain Mandate”: Gaining control over all sectors of society (government, media, education, etc.) [05:21].
  • Rhetoric of moral crisis and being perpetually “under attack.”

• Historical context:

  • From the “Moral Majority” to today’s billion-dollar organizations, these groups have been organizing since the 1970s and before.
  • The roots of the movement are steeped in opposition to racial integration rather than just social issues like abortion [10:51].

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3. Contradiction Within the Faith & The Cult of White Jesus [07:15–10:23]

• Selective Christianity:

  • Whitaker compares Christianity to a house with many rooms — Christian nationalists embody a “basement” room focused on control and power, abandoning core teachings around love, justice, and care for the marginalized.

  “Christian nationalism... is inherently Antichrist in nature. Meaning, you can't read the red letters and come away with Christian nationalist ideals. It's completely incompatible, right?”
  — Tim Whitaker [07:15]

• Ironic Worship:

  • The supposed veneration of Jesus is divorced from historical reality:

    “They're praising a brown skinned Middle Eastern man who was born in modern day Palestine and was Jewish. And then they… denigrate those kinds of people. If Jesus was born today, they would hate who he was.”
    — Tim Whitaker [09:15]

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4. The Engine of White Christian Nationalism & Its Political Takeover [10:30–14:43]

• Racial and power dynamics:

  • Origins of right-wing Christian activism lie in white resistance to integration, not abortion.
  • Ongoing targeting of the “other” based on current political expediency (e.g., immigrants, LGBTQ+ people, Black Americans).

• Symbiotic relationship with Trump and the GOP:

  • Power and control trump any alleged scruples about character or faith.

  “Trump knew that if he could say the right things to the white evangelical base, they would give him the power and… create new logics that would excuse his behavior.”
  — Tim Whitaker [12:51]

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5. January 6th and the Christian Nationalist Imaginary [18:30–21:29]

• Religious symbolism at January 6th:

  • Christian flags and prayers invoked while storming the Capitol underscore the religious dimension of contemporary American fascism.

  “There was a Christian flag paraded in the Senate Chambers on January 6th. Can we wake up, please?... They prayed to Jesus.”
  — Tim Whitaker [18:30]

  “If that was any other religious group... it would still be talked about all over the news as the reason to get all the Muslims out of the country.”
  — Tim Whitaker [19:32]

• Double standards and impunity:

  • White Christian nationalists are granted deference and government protection, which would never be afforded to Black or Muslim Americans.

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6. Radicalization, Demonization, and Authoritarian Ambitions [21:29–24:03]

• No room for compromise:

  • Christian nationalists portray political opponents as demons, and advocate “destroying the enemy”—no negotiation, no pluralism.

  “There is no negotiation with demons. You don't negotiate with demons, you destroy demons.”
  — Tim Whitaker [21:29]

• Explicit threats of law enforcement and state violence:

  • Example: Stephen Miller, deputy chief of staff, out loud about using the state to punish dissenters:

  “You will live in exile because the power of law enforcement under President Trump's leadership will be used to find you...”
  — Quoted by Leigh McGowan [22:46]

• End goal: One-party, theocratic rule.

  “They don't want a two-party system, they want a one-party system. They want a full takeover.”
  — Tim Whitaker [22:46]

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7. Well-Funded Propaganda & Youth Indoctrination [27:02–33:37]

• The Right’s propaganda infrastructure:

  • Billions spent by right-wing billionaires to build media empires and youth recruitment vehicles (Turning Point USA, PragerU, etc.).
  • Democrats and the left lack similar infrastructure, funding, and movement discipline, often dismissing media or “infighting” over purity.

  “Nothing on the… left like what the right has done over the past decade... We need like, organizational structure that… can combat the propaganda. But guess what? We're like 15 years behind the eight ball here.”
  — Tim Whitaker [31:32]

  “We have to get the media voices out there to promote a better message… you wonder how people get brainwashed. Well, when all they hear is… right wing media and we have nothing to offer and then there's no money behind it…”
  — Tim Whitaker [33:06]

• Focus on youth:

  • The right targets undeveloped, easily influenced minds, preferring to debate or proselytize to college kids rather than informed adults.

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8. Co-opting Tragedy: The Death of Charlie Kirk [38:02–41:58]

• Charlie Kirk’s murder used as justification for increased repression and Christian nationalist hero-worship:

  • The violent event is being memorialized with political theater, further entrenching the cause.
  • Kirk’s policies and culture contributed to the toxicity and real violence that led to his demise.

  “Charlie made exceptions for some of that stuff. He said that, hey, we got to be okay tolerating certain amount of casualties from gun deaths. And it kills me that Charlie died in the world that he helped create.”
  — Tim Whitaker [38:21]

• Memorialization as propaganda event:

  • National memorial day declared; major evangelical performers and top Republican officials slated to attend and speak.
  • “They are being who they are…. This is. They worship a God of empire.”
    — Tim Whitaker [46:13]

  “They've asked guests to wear ‘Sunday best,’ especially red, white, and blue. I don't think that could be any more on the nose for Christian nationalism or American Christian nationalism.”
  — Leigh McGowan [45:38]

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9. Hypocrisy and Genocide: The Church and Gaza [40:20–41:58]

• Moral inconsistency in the Evangelical church:

  • The church lionizes Charlie Kirk while remaining silent on, or complicit in, horrific violence like the genocide in Gaza.
  • American Christianity has become fundamentally a different religion—focused on control, exclusion, and militarism.

  “It's not Christianity, it's American Christianity and it's been co opted. It's actually a different religion...”
  — Leigh McGowan [41:58]

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10. Endgame & A Call to Action [46:13–49:38]

• The ultimate goal is domination and exclusion:

  • Rolling back women’s, LGBTQ+, and minority rights, suppressing voting rights, and cementing white male, Christian rule.

  “Total domination. I mean, gay people back in the closet, women mostly at home, one household vote situation. White men... It's all about the power and control.”
  — Tim Whitaker [47:24]

• Responsibility of Christians (especially white Christians):

  • Stand up, speak out, and “take the arrows” that would otherwise hit marginalized groups.
  • Build values-based, not belief-based, coalitions to defend democracy.

  “We have to build coalitions over shared values, not shared beliefs... Can we align on these values of democracy and free speech, even when we're uncomfortable? Great. Let's work together.”
  — Tim Whitaker [49:12]

  “White Christians have an obligation to put their bodies in place of the arrows…”
  — Tim Whitaker [47:59]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “Christian nationalism... is inherently Antichrist in nature. You can't read the red letters and come away with Christian nationalist ideals." (Whitaker [07:15])
• “They follow a very white Jesus. A gun toting, no healthcare for you, big beautiful bill transfers wealth from the bottom to the top Jesus... it's all over the place.” (Whitaker [09:15])
• “There was a Christian flag paraded in the Senate Chambers on January 6th. Can we wake up, please?” (Whitaker [18:30])
• “They don't want a two party system, they want a one party system. They want a full takeover.” (Whitaker [22:46])
• “Nothing on the... left like what the right has done over the past decade. We need organizational structure that can build a different kind of media... But guess what, we're like 15 years behind...” (Whitaker [31:32])
• “We have to build coalitions over shared values, not shared beliefs.” (Whitaker [49:12])
• “White Christians have an obligation to put their bodies in place of the arrows and then learn from their black and queer neighbors and let them change how you see the world.” (Whitaker [47:59])

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Important Timestamps

• 00:00 — Warning about women’s suffrage being under attack.
• 05:21 — Explanation of Seven Mountain Mandate and religious right’s organizing principles.
• 10:51 — Origins of the religious right in racial integration, not abortion.
• 14:02 — Trump’s relationship with Paula White and the charismatic Christian movement.
• 18:30 — Christian symbolism at January 6th insurrection.
• 21:29 — Demonization of opponents and rhetoric of destruction.
• 22:46 — Stephen Miller quote on state violence and punishment.
• 27:02 — Youth indoctrination through right-wing media infrastructure.
• 38:02 — The murder of Charlie Kirk and its political appropriation.
• 40:25 — October 14th as George Floyd’s and Charlie Kirk’s shared birthday; symbolic implications.
• 46:13 — The legacy event for Kirk as Christian nationalist theater.
• 47:59 — Call for white Christians to “take the arrows” for marginalized neighbors.
• 49:12 — Closing call for coalitions based on shared values.

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Final Thoughts

This episode serves as a stark warning and a wake-up call. Whitaker, drawing on firsthand experience as a former fundamentalist, lays out how Christian nationalism, funded by billionaires and legitimated by political power, has grown into an existential threat to U.S. democracy and pluralism. McGowan and Whitaker urge listeners—especially white, non-fundamentalist Christians—to see the threat clearly, reject unity based on naïve compromise, and instead join with all people of conscience to resist authoritarianism on the basis of shared values, not dogma.

The fight, they argue, will require as much resolve and organizational power as the forces working relentlessly against democracy.

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“In an age of propaganda, we must tell the truth louder than ever.” — Tim Whitaker [44:02]

Transcript

[Tim Whitaker]

Make no mistake, women's suffrage is on the table. It is on that. You think people tell me, well, it's in the Constitution, will never get overturned. Oh, they're crafty. You think they aren't, like, working on it? I need people to wake up. Like, this is on the table.

[Lee McGowan]

Friends, it's 100% on the table. I mean, listen, we are getting rid of the First Amendment right now. There's no way they're not going to get rid of the 19th. Hello and welcome to the Politics Girl podcast. I'm your host, Lee McGowan. Let's get into it. I hope everyone is doing okay in these terrible times. Considering the past couple of weeks, I have decided to rearrange our schedule. Here to talk to my friend, Tim Whitaker. Tim is a former Christian fundamentalist, baptized and raised in the heart of the group trying so hard to take over our country right now. He is also the founder of the New Evangelicals, an inclusive Jesus centered community that holds space for those marginalized by the evangelical church through building community, exploring faith, and advocating for systemic change. I wanted to have him on today to talk about how the Christian nationalist playbook is unfolding in front of our eyes. From mass immigration raids, to what's going on in our schools and our media, to how the right is co opting the horrific murder of Charlie Kirk to consolidate power. It is all straight out of a playbook that I think most of us don't understand. But Tim really does. So without further ado, please welcome my guest, educator, influencer, and former evangelical Christian still deconstructing his faith, Tim Whitaker. Welcome back, Tim.

[Tim Whitaker]

It's good to see you, my friend. I mean, we talked a year ago and a lot has changed in a year. So thanks for having me. Why are we laughing? We should be crying because it's terrible.

[Lee McGowan]

If we don't laugh, we will cry. And like, listen, here's the thing. I think we need your insight right now more than ever. And like you said last time you were here, we talked about this, right? You tried to warn us that this extremist faction of the Christian movement was a real threat to America, that you knew these people firsthand. They were a danger to women, they were a danger to minorities, they were a danger to the marginalized. They were a danger to democracy itself. We talked about this, you know, 70 episodes ago. And yet here we are today, right? That while these white Christian nationalists believe it is their calling to save this country from, I don't know, hedonism, lack of morals, whatever, we. What they're really offering is some sort of top down theocracy with them in charge. And they've been really successful since we last spoke.

[Tim Whitaker]

Yeah, that's because they've been building this for decades behind the scenes. They have a billion dollar war chest. None of this is happening by accident. I'm newer to like the, the media scene. I'm maybe three or four years, maybe five into this. But there have been scholars and academics writing books and trying to raise the alarm literally for decades. They, they saw this in the 80s and the 90s, 2000s. And I mean it's here, this is, I think last year I was saying there's a huge threat of Christian nationalism or fascism. No, now it's here like it is in America. It's embedded in American politics and we're seeing the fruit of it. I mean, we're seeing immigrants being ripped from their families. We're seeing them thrown in concentration camps. You know, Jimmy Kimmel most recently got canned because the fcc, right, wanted to bully the larger parent company. This is textbook Authoritarianism 101. This is how it works. And we're watching it unfold in America.

[Lee McGowan]

Yeah. And like you said, it's not just something that's happening new. Like there's that old quote that's like when fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying the cross. And that is Christian nationalism to its core.

[Tim Whitaker]

Yes.

[Lee McGowan]

I mean the thing is, is that like you've called Christian nationalism for years American democracy's greatest threat. And you recently wrote a piece called Christian Nationalism 101 on your amazing substack, which I highly recommend people go and, but to give people a background on what Christian nationalism really is, if people do not know, would you mind just giving them sort of a brief overview so they understand what we're talking about throughout this episode?

[Tim Whitaker]

Yeah, absolutely. And by the way, that piece that I wrote on my substack, Timidiker Speaks, I actually pulled from a 30 minute YouTube video that I did. I just pulled that script and repurposed it for Substack. So it's also on. If you're more of a visual video person like I am. I have a YouTube channel at the New Evangelicals, the organization that I founded. And, and it's called Christian Nationalism 101. You can get all the details there. Look, essentially I'm going to boil it down really simply. Christian nationalism is the ideology or belief that Christians, mostly white conservative Christians, have a divine mandate and right to rule the country. They believe that America was founded as A Christian nation and that they have an obligation to keep America that way. And of course there's a lot of presuppositions underneath of that, you know, but they are mostly tied into the right wing maga culture war issues. So we want to keep God in public schools is one big thing they're really obsessed with. Right. Even though children can pray to the Christian God whenever they want. That's not what they're talking about. They're talking about they want teachers and they want government paid employees to lead children through prayers to the Christian God. Right. They want the Ten Commandments posted in public schools. Who cares about the actual test scores of the children? But the Ten Commandments are there, so it's all good. Right? Those are just some of the examples. Now there's, this is a whole world, it's not monolithic. There are different factions of Christian nationalist thinking from Doug Wilson's more theatomy dominionism ideology to more of the charismatic side like your Lance Wall now who popularized something called the Seven Mountain Mandate. Lance was featured at Turning Point USA's America Fest a year ago as one of the main speakers.

[Lee McGowan]

And just. Tim, if I can, just so people understand the Seven Mountain Mandate. If you don't know this man who spoke at Turning Point USA last year, the Seven Mountain Mandate is a concept where Christians should control the seven elements that kind of run our country, which is everything from government to media to. That's right, that kind of thing. So there are seven ele that kind of make up society. And they believe Christians should be at the top of all of it, running it from the top down.

[Tim Whitaker]

That's right. And this just to give your audience even a little bit more context because you're totally on the money. It comes from an idea that actually started in the 70s. Someone named Laura Cunningham who founded the organization Youth with a Mission, or ywam, believed that he received a vision from God about the seven spheres of influence and how Christians should influence those seven spheres. Well, a couple of decades later, Lance Waldow sees that idea, transforms it into the Seven Mountain Mandate. So it's a top down thing. And now we have this ideology that is permeating Christian nationalism. So again, I'm just giving your audience the context that it's not out of a vacuum that this stuff comes from. It's not like it's yesterday. This stuff is just made up. It comes from somewhere that's been deeply embedded in these white evangelical spaces that I grew up in, even though I didn't know it. But it's been festering there for a very long time.

[Lee McGowan]

Well, like you're saying you didn't know it, right? I mean, you and I have talked about this before. I mean, I did not grow up in the Evangelical church. I grew up Episcopalian. But religion was a big part of my life, right. I learned all the stories. I did Sunday school every Sunday. I believed in God. I still believe in something today. I just don't know what it is. But in many ways, it was the American Christians and how they behaved that kind of pushed me from the church rather than embracing me to come back and be a bigger part of it. How do you think that a religion that was so based on acceptance and kindness and taking care of others became so much about control, about ostracizing and dominating anyone who isn't exactly like you or behaving exactly like you?

[Tim Whitaker]

Well, let's think about Christianity like a really big house. And like in a house there are different rooms, right? And so we're talking about a very specific room in the house of Christian thought. Because don't forget, I mean, Martin Luther King Jr. Was motivated by his Christian faith, right, to fight for justice and rights. So certainly Christianity is not monolithic in that sense. But what we're talking about is a very deep strand of white Protestant American supremacy that really this nation was founded on in a lot of different ways. And it's evolved over time to kind of give us what we have today. So again, this comes from somewhere, right? This kind of Christianity, I call it the basement. It's in the basement of the house, is really built on power and control. I want to be clear to your audience, Christian nationalism is a Christian stream. You can trace it back to Constantine. So it's definitely there. However, it is inherently Antichrist in nature. Meaning you can't read the red letters and come away with Christian nationalist ideals. It's completely incompatible, right?

[Lee McGowan]

This is ideas like, treat your neighbor like yourself, turn the other cheek, be kind to the stranger, help the poor, help the weak. This kind of thing.

[Tim Whitaker]

Yes. Liberate the oppressed. I mean, that's the words of Jesus, right? Feed the hungry, clothe the naked. I mean, if you read the Sermon on the Mount, I think it's Matthew 7, the first few verses. You don't come away with Maga. You come. You come away with the opposite, right? I mean, Jesus himself was a refugee from modern day Palestine as a Jewish man under the boot of empire. You know that in the Christian theology we believe that Jesus was God. So what we're saying is that God incarnated themselves as an unhoused poor man under the boot of empire. And somehow Christian nationalism believes that to be a follower of this person is to take control of the government and to harm especially your most marginalized Right. And to call that a Christian nation, it's completely opposite to everything that Christ actually was.

[Lee McGowan]

Yeah. Completely antithetical. If Jesus was the kind of person who was against the empire and flipping tables and you know, against, you know, it's harder to get into heaven as a rich man than get for a camel to get through the eye of the needle kind of a thing.

[Tim Whitaker]

Yeah. I mean, look, let me give you one of the biggest ironies that I see. I have attended Turning Point USA's events over the past couple years and it is very interesting watching Christian nationalists and this kind of ideology that permeates the right wing media sphere. They're really big on, on musical worship, on, on praising Jesus. Right. The irony is that they're praising a brown skinned Middle Eastern man who was born in modern day Palestine and was Jewish. And then they, after that they, they, they denigrate those kinds of people. If Jesus was born today, they would hate who he was. He would be one of the quote unquote, third worlders. He'd be destroying America. He'd be part of the great replacement theory. So they don't even see the great irony in all of this. Right. The person that they're worshiping is the person that they hate today. It's completely incongruent with the Jesus that they claim to follow. Which is why I say I believe that I was radicalized by white Jesus. They follow a very white Jesus. Right. A gun toting, no healthcare for you. Big beautiful bill transfers wealth from the bottom to the top Jesus. It's a reality. Look at the fruit of how they live. It's all over the place.

[Lee McGowan]

Yeah, well, I mean, you have said that white nationalism and white evangelicalism is the bacteria.

[Tim Whitaker]

Yes.

[Lee McGowan]

Like, almost like a virus that has bred white Christian nationalism. White Christian nationalism itself is the reason for where we are today. Could you expand on that? Cause I know it has to do with like, you know, why Trump is in power and why we have ICE rounding up people in the cities and why we had January 6th, that ultimately it was a corrupted sort of virus that came into the faith.

[Tim Whitaker]

Yeah. Look, I say this as a still very committed Christian. Okay. I'm not someone who left my faith. In fact, I left the white Evangelical church because I thought I watched Jesus leave the church. Right. I'm like okay, I'm going where this person's going. I'm committed to following Jesus no matter what. So I say this as someone who's still very much an insider, but we have to understand that in particular, the white Evangelical project is what has bred so much of the hatred we're seeing today. You can start with the Moral Majority. That's a good starting point for a lot of people. That's Jerry Falwell, founder of Liberty University. You know, the narrative I was taught was that Jerry Falwell got politicized because of abortion. That's not true. Let's just start right there. Jerry Falwell got politicized because of integration and because he didn't like the federal government forcing integration. In fact, Jerry Falwell preached a sermon called Brown v. Board, which. That was the title of it. And he said in the sermon, if the Supreme Court justices knew what God would have wanted, they never would have ruled in that direction. That was the beginning. So when you hear terms like religious freedom, again, this comes from somewhere. It comes from the fact that they were mad that the big bad, tyrannical government was forcing their white kids to go to school with black kids. And if you actually look at the data, if you look at the rise of the private school movement, it correlates perfectly with Brown v. Board and the government enforcing integration. So we have to understand that's the foundation of so much of what we're standing on. Of course, that will ebb and flow. That will. That. That will transform. Transforms. But the ideas are the same. White evangelicalism is built around power. It's built around this idea that. That we are under attack, that the world hates us, especially liberals, and that also the problems of America are because of the immigrant, of the trans person. Right? It's always a marginalized group. It's never the group in power. And so that is the ideology that gets repackaged to always target a different group. A few years ago, you and I were talking about critical race theory. Where's that been? Is that still being taught in schools? Who knows? Now it's something else. A while back when gay marriage became a legal right, it was the gays you had to watch out for. Now it's trans people. You know, it's always someone or something based on the cultural moment. That's how this system operates. So how does Trump fit into this? Right? People always ask me. I don't get it, Tim. How do these Christians like Trump just look at what he says, how he acts? And that's because you're looking at this through the wrong framework. You must look at the framework of power and control. Trump knew that if he could say the right things to the white evangelical base, they would give him the power and they would create new logics that would excuse his behavior. And that's. That's the ultimate foundation here. One really good book on this I recommend to your audience that really goes into the rise of Trump and the people behind him, as well as the more charismatic side of this movement called the New Apostolic Reformation, is the book the Violent Take it by Force by Matthew Taylor. He's an amazing scholar, and he makes the point that Paula White, who, by the way, is a prosperity gospel preacher, someone who believes in this navy and.

[Lee McGowan]

Claimant ideology, and Paula White, just so people know, is the spiritual advisor to the White House.

[Tim Whitaker]

And guess what? Did you know that? That. That she was good friends with Donald Trump for decades before he ran, and she was the main person who told him, you should run for president. And she's the person who brought the other charismatic pastors into the circle to get behind Trump. Right. And then they use their platforms to push Trump. So that's kind of how we got here in a nutshell, you know?

[Lee McGowan]

Yeah, well, you have the charismatic people like the Paula Whites, then you have the really brilliant people like the Heritage foundation guys who wrote Project 2025 and really had an overall goal from the Reagan administration on to really change how we do everything in this country. And they're being exceptionally successful. That's not Trump's brilliant ideas.

[Tim Whitaker]

No, no, no.

[Lee McGowan]

That is Russell Vogt and those guys. And then you have the federal, who are also very, very Christian, stacking the courts to get what they want. And then so you get everything from, like we're saying, Russell, vote with the Heritage foundation to Amy Coney Barrett and those guys over there on the Supreme Court who are all sort of Christian fundamentalist nationalists. And you've already said it's not just white supremacy that we're seeing around this nation. It is white Christian supremacy that America isn't experiencing just a fascist takeover. We're experiencing a fascist Christian takeover. So we need to be really clear about that distinction. The Politics Girl podcast has a new sponsor, Parallel. Parallel are doctor Made vitamins for women at every stage of their lives. Instead of just having women continue to take a one size fits all vitamin. Parallel is reinventing vitamins from the ground up. The first OB GYN founded vitamin company. Parallel is defining a new era of women's health, one where your supplements understand your hormones and your stage of life. Parallel creates targeted nutrition for every phase. Menstrual health, fertility, pregnancy, postpartum Perimenopausal it is products made by people who understand the people they're making it for a vitamin company founded for women by doctors who specialize in women's health. So go to their website and check out if Parallel is Right for your There's a reason Glossy called it the Wellness Brand of the Year because why shouldn't your supplements change as your life changes? Why shouldn't you have targeted support for every stage you find yourself in? Made with bioavailable ingredients your body can actually absorb, all powders are safe for pregnancy and breastfeeding, but designed for all stages of life. They even have daily powders that include protein, electrolytes and help with sleep support. Exclusive to our listeners right now, new customers can enjoy 20% off their first order with the code politics girl when they visit parallelhealth.com that's P E R E L E L H E a l t h.com code politics girl parallelhealth.com Today's episode is brought to you by Oneskin. Oneskin is known for their cult favorites like OS1 body, OS1 face and OS1 eye because they all use the OS1 peptide, the first ingredient proven to target sentient cells, the root cause of wrinkles, crepiness and loss of elasticity. With their science first approach, OS1 delivers hydration, barrier support and longevity benefits with their results validated by five separate clinical studies certified for sensitive skin, Oneskin moisturizers are free from over 1500 harsh or irritating ingredients. They are dermatologist tested and have been awarded the National Eczema Association Seal of Acceptance. There is a reason editors have named Oneskin a brand to watch in magazines from Fast company to Town and country and on shows like the Today Show. Founded by an all woman team of longevity scientists with backgrounds in stem cell biology, skin regeneration and tissue engineering. It is no wonder customers rave about how their skin is smoother and firmer and healthier looking and their products have over 10,000 five star reviews. OneSkin is the world's first skin skin longevity company targeting cellular aging to keep your skin and scalp looking and acting younger for longer. For limited time you can try OneSkin with 15% off by using the code PoliticsGirl at OneSkin co. That is 15% off at OneSkin co with the code PoliticsGirl and after you purchase they're gonna ask you how you heard about them. Please support the show and tell them that we sent you. Try Oneskin Today, future you. Well, thank you. America isn't experiencing just a fascist takeover. We're experiencing a fascist Christian takeover. So we need to be really clear about that distinction.

[Tim Whitaker]

We have to be. Look, I say this as a Christian. We have to be. There was a Christian flag paraded in the Senate Chambers on January 6th. Can we wake up, please? They brought Bibles, they sang worship songs on January 6. They prayed to Jesus. I have the clip. The person in the Senate chambers standing in the podium, I guess where all the, the Senate leaders, you know, usually are, said, jesus Christ, we invoke your name, Amen. And they had a two minute long prayer thanking Jesus Christ for this moment. And, and right wing media propaganda is so effective. They're so effective. We don't talk about that anymore. Right? We don't talk about that. Americans do not think we have a white Christian nationalist problem, despite a mob of them storming the Capitol with a Christian flag. If that was any other religious group, especially one in particular, it would still be talked about all over the news as the reason. Right. To get all the Muslims out of the country.

[Lee McGowan]

Tim. Everyone, everyone there would have been dead.

[Tim Whitaker]

Completely. Completely.

[Lee McGowan]

They would have shot everyone. If that had been a group of Muslims that had attacked the Capitol, they would be dead. If that had been a group of black people who had attacked the Capitol, they would be dead. Like, there is no other group that would have been treated that it was a day of love. There's no other group that would have been pardoned. There is no other group that would have been treated with the respect that that group has given and has only grown, quite frankly. And I think it comes back to this idea that people believe that this nation belongs to white Christians, that they have this divine mandate that God himself has called them to take America back from those who have, you know, sought to corrupt it. And I think that that is so powerful to so many people that it allows them, as you said, to excuse so much behavior that they're seeing from Trump or they know from Trump, because they're getting what they want ultimately from Trump, which is to take the nation back. So they are willing to overlook, you know, a child pedophile ring if it means that they get to have their Christian nation again. And then you go, well, where's your Christianity? And that it is so antithetical. Again, I'm going to say to what I grew up with, knowing the Christian religion to be, but also it's very, very powerful.

[Tim Whitaker]

It's incredibly powerful. There are really well funded media think tanks that, that do the brainwashing for their audience nonstop. I mean, look, Donald Trump pardoned every single January 6th. And then he and his right wing media crew have the audacity to say that they deplore violence when the unjustifiable assassination of Charlie Kirk happened. To be very clear about that. I mean, we were, we were emphatic. I met Charlie several times. I go to his horrible, unjustifiable. But like, my God, guys, we know what, we know that for white Christian nationalists, violence is okay if it's on their side. Just look at what Laura Loomber said about Joe Biden when his cancer diagnosis came up. She wished him dead. I mean, it's horrible.

[Lee McGowan]

Charlie Kirk said he should be executed too. Charlie Kirk himself. I mean, we can't pretend that didn't happen.

[Tim Whitaker]

Well, we have to tell the truth. And I don't say that with malice. I say that with great pain, you know, because I want good faith. I want. People want to work together. The problem is that Christian nationalists do not want to work together because in their mind you are a demon, you are demonically influenced. You are on the side of the enemy when you believe that you have a calling by the God of the universe that spoke everything into existence and that you have a calling by that God to take back America from the evil people on the side of the enemy. AKA Satan and his demons. Right? There is no negotiation with demons. You don't negotiate with demons, you destroy demons. You don't negotiate with people who want to destroy the country that God has given you. You destroy them first. And if you listen to any of the rhetoric in these right wing media spaces, which I know both you and I do, that is the call over and over. We have to destroy the left. We have to take back the country. Jesse Waters did a three minute long diatribe saying some of the most disgusting things about the left. We have to defund them, put them in prison, make them say that they're sorry, get rid of the teachers in schools or your kids shouldn't be taught like that. That's what this is. They want a full takeover in the Christian nationalist world. Hear me so clearly, audience. They don't want a two party system, they want a one party system. They want a full takeover.

[Lee McGowan]

Yeah, I mean, you're talking about what people said. I keep. I was chilled by Stephen Miller talking about how the regime is going to respond to the critics of Charlie Kirk to the left in general. He said, and I'm going to quote Stephen Miller, just so you guys know, who is the deputy chief of staff at the White House, he said, you will live in exile because the power of law enforcement under President Trump's leadership will be used to find you. You will be used to take your money from you. It will be used to take your power from you. And if you have broken with us, it will take away your freedom. And I was like, wow, I mean, that is pretty striking. And like, you're saying these people, they don't believe in working with their, you know, colleagues across the aisle. They don't believe in democracy or pluralism or multiculturalism. They don't even think we should all get a vote. Right. A lot of these far right Christians are very clear that women shouldn't be voting. They don't like multiple religions. They don't like multiple points of view. They don't want an absolutely white nation. The concept of religious freedom, free speech, equal protection under the law, stuff we really take for granted in America, none of this is worth protecting to them. In fact, they would rather dismantle it. And that's what we're seeing right now.

[Tim Whitaker]

That is what data shows. I'm a big data person, right? I want to know what's. What's this? What's the stats? So, Prri, they do a lot of the tracking of Christian nationalism, how they define it, all that stuff. They show that in their research, Christian nationalists, people that identify or that are in that camp, are less likely to endorse multiculturalism. They are less likely to want a society that is religiously pluralistic, et cetera. So what you're saying is completely correct. There's just no other way to say it. Here's one example of how Christian nationalists do not want to work together. So a few months ago, Gavin Newsom had Charlie Kirk on his podcast. Okay, Gavin Newsom acquiesced to all of Charlie's points about trans women in sports, all this stuff. And of course, you know, I was very frustrated by it. I'm like, there's so much data on this, but whatever. And we all were. Yeah, I'm sure we were right. Yeah. I'm like, what are we doing right? And the reason why I said this was because I'm like, I'm like, I know what Gavin's thinking. Gavin's thinking, look, if I can show Charlie I'm willing to concede some points, Charlie will lob the ball back to me. Concede some points, however, and I have the email. Charlie Kirk sent out an email later on to his supporters saying, patriots, I went on Gavin Newsom's podcast, and I made him acquiesce and admit to the radical trans madness taking over our country. He conceded all these points. It proves that we are winning. That's how Charlie saw that. Charlie didn't see it as, hey, it was really thoughtful. I came away with some big Learns that maybe Democrats aren't our enemies after all. No, it was. Look, I got Newsom to submit because we are, right? That's how they see this. And I am so furious with these establishment Dems who think that if they just, you know, shake hands and play footsies with fascism, that somehow we're going to be okay. Like, wake up. Like, honestly, read one history book. Read, Read the book Fascism. Read the book How Fascism Works by Jason Stanley. Like, just do anything, because this is, this is not how you do it. It's very frustrating.

[Lee McGowan]

It's incredibly frustrating. I feel exactly the same way you do. I think most of my audience does. I think it's just an infuriating thing to watch because I think for a long time the Democrats felt like they could lead by example, that if they were doing the right thing, it would sudden how trickle down to other people doing the right thing or seeing that we would, you know, like, we're here for everybody. And everyone's like, no, you're here for nobody, because. And then even the left gets on them. Right? Like, you cannot win if you don't have a strong point of view. And your strong point of view should be everybody counts, everybody matters. We're not gonna, you know, scapegoat this group or that group or the other thing, because the right has been very vocally calling us their enemies for years. Like, we're not their, you know, political opponents. We are enemies. We are evil, we are demons. And now, after Kirk's murder, they are straight up calling us the party of war, the party of murder. It's like they are trying to incite a civil war. I don't see how you can see it any other way, but they're saying, we are doing this with God on our side, and it makes it so much more powerful, because if you're doing it with God, then how can you not be on the correct side?

[Tim Whitaker]

That's correct. And keep in mind, if you grew up in white evangelicalism, you're taught as a child, no compromise, right? You're taught, Listen, I, I, I sang as a, as a kid. I'm in the Lord's army. There's a whole song. I may never march in the infantry, ride in the cavalry, shoot the artillery, But I'M in the Lord's army. Yes sir. These are songs that you learn as a child, right? And so you're taught to never compromise. You're taught that, that, that, that you have objective truth about God that no one else has. And, and that any kind of compromise your enemies is to have a watered down view of the gospel of the Christian faith. So all these things work perfectly in sync to produce this result. Right? And on top of that, when you realize that most white evangelicals get their media from either talk radio or now right wing media pundits like Benny Johnson or something like that, you realize how they are brainwashed all day. Trump has called Democrats the enemy of the state multiple times before he got elected. And now suddenly, right, all these calls for war are coming out and they're the ones who have the audacity say the, the left is the party of hatred. And I'm thinking to myself, you know, Zorin Mamdami, who was vilified by Charlie Kirk non stop for him being a Muslim, came out on Twitter when, when Charlie Kirk was murdered and said political violence has no place in America and sent his condolences to Charlie Kirk and his family that would never be reciprocated by the other side. And somehow that's the party, I guess, of violence. And the party calling for civil war is the party of peace. It's gaslighting in its truest form. We cannot believe the propaganda.

[Lee McGowan]

You were so deeply entrenched in this world growing up as a child like this was really, and people really should understand, like you were in it, you know, you were doing the bands and you were like, from, from, you know, from childhood. This was your world. And I, I think there's part of me that I just feel so heartbroken about the Turning Point USA sort of agenda and what Charlie Kirk was doing before he was killed, completely unnecessarily, I will absolutely say because of the youth. I have a 17 year old. His generation, the people we know that live here, they seem so much less hateful and more open minded than generations that came before. You know, they are just this group of kids that I know are so, you know, like, they don't. You're like, oh, you're a they them great. No problem. Like they have, no, they're like, kids are very open minded. But if you get kids when they're young, when you get the youth when they're young, you can also brainwash them quite quickly because they don't know a lot. Which I think in many ways was why Charlie Kirk was debating college students who had yet to establish their, you know, thought pattern instead of the professors he claimed were the problem. Right. If Charlie Kirk had been debating the professors on theology or sexuality or, you know, black women's studies, it would have been a completely different thing. Which is why we saw when he went to Cambridge, he just got the smoked by those kids that were professional debaters as opposed to the kids he was hitting up in America. I don't know what to do about that because they have billions of dollars behind them to keep doing this and we just don't have a similar infrastructure. And you're someone that's doing a new ministry, like, what do we do about this? Especially with the youth.

[Tim Whitaker]

Yeah, I'm really passionate about this point in particular. I started an organization, really by accident called the New Evangelicals. It's one of the largest, like Christian progressive digital first organizations out there. We do podcasts. We have a community space that's off of Meta completely. And we're trying to help people with free educational resources to think about a better path forward in their face. So if that's you out there, you can find us anywhere on social media. You're welcome to join. There's no paywall. Nothing that we offer costs anything. We're a 501c3 nonprofit and it's amazing. I want to really hit this point and I think you and I are going to agree and if we don't, just forgive me. But when I hopped into this online media world and started looking at the numbers of like how much Money turning point USA is raising, PragerU is raising.

[Lee McGowan]

I should be really clear though, like, they're not raising it the way grassroots organizations raise it. If somebody gives you a $91 million check, you didn't go out there and raise money. Somebody gave you a ton of money with an agenda and you are following through on that. And so I just want to be clear that. But you know, these organizations that are getting these giant checks from billionaires who are benefiting from who gets into office and then they get tax cuts or lack of regulation, or they get control or they get women out of power, whatever it is, these organizations are not grassroots, you know, people behind them. These are huge, top down organizations.

[Tim Whitaker]

I completely agree. Thank you for that. That's a great point. They are billionaire funded and then they use that big presence to then try and raise money off the grassroots. Right, but it's. But you know, look, I mean, I, I've talked to so many people about this. Nothing on the quote Unquote, left. Like what the right has done over the past decade. And I have a lot of critiques about that. Again, I say it in love because we have to, we have to tell the truth. Like we cannibalize our own way too easily. And, and for whatever reason, I'm going to just say maybe the Democratic Party did not think it was worth pouring money or time or investment into real infrastructure. We don't need a Joe Rogan of the left. We need like, organizational structure that can, that can build a different kind of media with the message of love, inclusivity and justice and can combat the propaganda. But guess What? We're like 15 years behind the eight ball here. Rumble. We don't. There's no left wing version of Rumble. There's no left wing version of anyone on the right. I mean, you think about maybe one of the biggest leftist streamers out there is Hasan Piker. Okay? He dwarfs in comparison to the reach of Charlie Kirk or to anyone on the right. He just does. Right. And why? Well, because he's an independent creator. Turning Point was a whole organization with millions of dollars devoted to a cause. And so I'm not saying that we should, you know, just copy and paste and be just as unethic and platform people who are just as problematic. Of course not. But my God, you wonder how people get brainwashed. Well, when all they hear is, is different kinds of media and we have nothing to offer and then there's no money behind it because, you know, oh, well, that, that, you know, we're all about, you know, like, saving democracy. Okay, I agree. You do it through media. You have to get, you have to get the media voices out there to promote a better message. And it has. I've been racking my brain for years trying to a, find funding and trying to figure out how we can build something because we ain't going to do it by having just independent little shows. As much as I love doing what I do, I know you do too. We need something bigger. And when we do that, we cannot eat our own so easily. We got to have, we got to be able to build a big ten here. That means giving and taking when it matters. And anyway, I'm going to rant forever, but I'm really passionate about that.

[Lee McGowan]

You know, I agree with you. I completely agree with you. And it is, it's infuriating because I have spoken to people for years and just so people understand, you know, I spoke to people for years about this and they said, well, we don't really need to pay left wing creators to do stuff. Because you guys are gonna do it anyway, right? That was the thought. Because Do Gooders are gonna do it anyway. You have to pay Benny Johnson, you know, $400,000 a month to live with Russian propaganda. But you don't need to pay me to do pro democracy content. Cause I'm gonna do it anyway, right? Like I want, I want my child to have a better future. So like, why would I put money into that? And I think that's what we've done for 15 years. And then when we do try and do something coordinated, we're attacked, right? So it's ridiculous. So let. Before you go, listen, let's talk a little bit about the Kirk murder. Because it seems quite clear that the administration and those who support the administration are using this super violent event to supercharge a plan they already had in motion. Right? That this death has become a catalyst for a mission. Are you seeing that? We spend so much time caring about the skin on our face, but what about the skin in our neck? We are deep into fall now, out of that hot summer sun, so it's the perfect time to give your neck and chest the attention they deserve. Because even as the temperatures are cool, the delicate neck area is still often exposed and the neck is the first place to show visible signs of aging. This is where go Pure beauty Tighten and Lift neck cream comes in. This powerful formula is packed with clinically proven ingredients that visibly firm, smooth and rejuvenate the skin on your neck and chest in as little to four to eight weeks. The truth is the neck skin is thinner and more delicate and less oily than skin on your face, which makes it incredibly vulnerable as the air cools and dries. GoPure's targeting firming complex gives this area the specialized care it needs, helping nourish, strengthen and restore for a lifted youthful look. Gopure is cruelty free, paraben free, sulfate free. So you're giving your skin clean and effective care without any harsh chemicals. With over a million jars sold, this beauty secret is no longer a secret. For a limited time, our listeners will get 25% off GoPure with the code PoliticsGirl at checkout. Just head to GoPure.com and use the code PoliticsGirl and you're all set. And after you buy, do us a favor. If they ask you how you heard about them, tell them it was from our show GoPure code Politics Girl. I travel a lot and one of the things that's hard when you change beds or locations or time zones is sleeping. Which is why I'm such a fan of Calm. Calm is the number one app for sleep and meditation and it gives you the power to calm your mind and change your life. And it really can change your life. Because I have become completely Pavlovian when it comes to their sleep stories over time, I've picked the ones that I like like best. Currently I am in a train phase. The Taurus Express, the Glacier Express. I like them. As soon as I hear those narrators voices, it's almost an immediate reaction to go right to sleep. I am also a big fan of Calm for naps. The app has a terrific number of meditations that allow you to take the perfect amount of time for a nap, which by the way is 28 minutes and it wakes you up with birdsong. So if you're feeling overwhelmed in the middle of the day, you can take a quick less than half hour nap nap and get back and ready to go. It works so well. I don't even need an alarm to set after it. Back to school can be a good time to start fresh. So why not make calm one of the resets you add to make your life better for the rest of the year? As I said, I use the sleep stories the most, but they also have sleep meditations, calming music, white noise, green noise, brown noise, guided meditation expert, led talks on different topics, and grounding exercises to help you relax. Relax when you're feeling overwhelmed. There is a reason calm has over 2 million 5 star reviews. Because they help you stress less and sleep more and live better. Calm now has an exclusive offer just for the listeners of our show. Get 40% off a Calm premium subscription at calm.com politicsgirl and I'll tell you, as someone who's been paying for this app for well over seven years, this is an amazing value. Go to save c a l m.com politicsgirl for 40% off unlimited access to CALM's entire library. That's calm.com politicsgirl and tell CALM. You heard about them from me. This death has become a catalyst for a mission. Are you seeing that?

[Tim Whitaker]

100%. Let me just say personally, as someone who's met Charlie Kirk. The last time I met him was actually at the DNC convention. We met behind the scenes. You talked about five minutes and I shook his hand. I say this seriously. You know, the reason I was so heartbroken about Charlie's murder was because I hated that it happened to him. I don't want a society where we're executing people, you know, in college campuses or we're mass slaughtering children in schools. But Charlie made exceptions for some of that stuff. He said that, hey, we got to be okay. Tolerating certain amount of casualties from gun deaths. And it kills me that Charlie died in the world that he helped create. Look, I am someone, as a Christian, I believe in repentance, in that it's always possible for someone to turn and go the other way. And as maybe as foolish as this was, I always hoped that someone like a Charlie Kirk would see the light one day and be like, wow, I can use all of my talents to build a better path forward for all of my neighbors, including my own, My own family, but also for my. My queer neighbors. We can work together. And it just is really tragic that he died in a culture with more guns than people. I hate that for him. I truly do. As far as the memorializing of Kirk, I mean, it is absolutely. It's unbelievable. There's no other way to Shameless. It's shameless. Listen, people are calling him. I forgot who it was, but politician said he could have been the 13th disciple. I'm like, are you kidding me? I'm watching the white evangelical church memorialize him as some God, some God fearing gospel preacher. I'm like, what?

[Lee McGowan]

The entire congress just voted to have October 14th be Charlie Kirk Remembrance Day. Like, he's a giant civil rights icon. And I just, I feel shame for black women. I feel shame for the queer community. I feel shame for marginalized communities. I feel shame for anyone that was degraded and then has to then celebrate it. It is hard to watch that. And like you said, it's not that someone should be killed like that. No one should be killed like that. Nothing like that should happen. But you know, you wrote, I thought quite clearly that if we're going to memorialize Charlie Clerk, but we are silent on the genocide of Palestinians. What is that church? What is the church that does that? Because it feels, back to what we were talking about before. A church that worships the God of empire and money and control and not the God of the oppressed and the poor and the meek. Talk me through that.

[Tim Whitaker]

Well, first off, let's not forget October 14th is George Floyd's birthday.

[Lee McGowan]

I didn't know that.

[Tim Whitaker]

Let that, you know, like think about that for a minute too. Like that layer, it just adds a whole different layer. Now the argument that I've heard is that it's also Charlie Kirk's birthday, which is why they chose that date. I don't care. It says enough, especially to the black community who's dealt with this forever. Right. But so we think about that. And I mean, absolutely. And again, I've been very outspoken about this since the beginning, as I've learned. I grew up in white evangelicalism, so I was taught Israel good, Palestine bad. Because Hamas. Right. And it wasn't until I met Palestinian Christians who gave me a more nuanced take and also a reality check of just what it's like for Palestinians to live in Gaza before even October 7 happened. You know, and so I say this. Yeah. You know, as a church, if we, if Jesus says to liberate the oppressed and if Jesus reached out to the most marginalized, and if Jesus was crucified by the empire, that should say something about where Christians should land on these issues. I think it's very telling that we have a white evangelical church that is one of the biggest reasons why this government funds the ongoing genocide of the Palestinians. Bombing children. I've seen enough charred bodies of kids to last me a lifetime. It's horrific. It is hell on earth. And then this is the same white church that goes. And Charlie Kirk, who by the way made a joke about how in Gaza you can't throw gay people off a roof anymore because there's no more roofs to throw them off of. A white evangelical church goes, this is our man who was just like Jesus. He was so Christlike. And I go, what Jesus are you talking about? Not the one in the gospels, maybe someone else, but not that one. And it just is what it is. I'm shocked.

[Lee McGowan]

Well, I think that's the thing. I think that's what we need to get really real about is that it's not Christianity, it's American Christianity and it's been co opted. It's actually a different religion. And I often think when people say, well, I'm Christian, like I'll fit into this new world order that they're building. And I'm like, who says your Christianity is going to fit? Cause there's a whole bunch of different factions and yours might not be exactly right. Like we're talking about control. Now, I have to say, in general, this episode is not gonna air until September 23, but there is gonna be this star studded memorial service for Charlie Kirk on September 21st. So we're doing this before that memorial service. It's at the State Farm Stadium in Arizona. It's a huge event. I wish you and I could have spoken after it because I would love to have your take on it. But along with all the famous speakers that are going to be There, there's also a lot of big players in the evangelical world, right?

[Tim Whitaker]

Yeah. So I'm going to say some names that if your audience grew up in my, in the spaces I did, you'll know right away. Brandon Lake, Phil Wickham, Chris Tomlin, Kerry Jobe, Cody Carnes. Those are some of the biggest modern day worship leaders in America. Their songs top even the secular Billboard charts. And they are going to be leading worship at Charlie Kirk's memorial. And again, I go back to what I said earlier. The irony of worshiping a man who lived on earth as a brown skinned refugee immigrant in honor of a man who denigrated those exact types of people, they just don't see it. And you're right, look, it's American Christianity. Funny small story. When I first started deconstructing, so to speak, I was like, you know, I would talk to my conservative friends, guys like, we worship the same God. Like it's, you know, I'm still, I'm still a Christian. And there was someone out there who wrote a book and their argument was that progressive Christians and conservative Christians worship different gods. I'm like, no, no, it's the same God. No, we worship different gods. At this. I believe them now, like, yeah, we, we just worship and we follow a different Jesus. We just do. Because the fruit of our lives looks so vastly different. We have to be truth tellers here. In an age of propaganda, we must tell the truth louder than ever. And that's the reality.

[Lee McGowan]

Yeah. I mean, and for those of you who did not recognize that list, I will also tell you that the speakers at the event are going to be Erica Kirk, Charlie Kirk's wife, President Trump, Vice President J.D. vance, White House Chief of Staff Susie Wiles, Secretary of State Marco Rubio, Secretary of Health and Human Services, Robert F. Kennedy Jr. Pete Hegseth, the now Secretary of War, Tulsi Gabbard, the Director of national intelligence, Donald Trump Jr. Tucker Carlson, Stephen Miller, and for some reason the US nominee for the Ambassador of India, which seems sort of peculiar. I was like, how did he get on this list? It is a big deal event. Whether you are in the Christian world or you are in the political world, this is a really big thing.

[Tim Whitaker]

Also, I really wish that Trump would have even just called Governor Waltz when Melissa Hortman, who was assassinated by a Christian nationalist, by the way, who was radicalized at Christ for the Nations Institute, a charismatic evangelical school that is Christian nationalists on their wall to their admissions, their founders said you should pray one violent prayer every. That's on their wall. Their own admissions, I'm not making up. You can fact check me on this. That man is alleged to have shot Melissa Hortman. Trump didn't even call waltz. Trump didn't even offer to lower the flags at half masts. The fact that a sitting president is doing this service, by the way, that means our taxpayer money is going to make this happen.

[Lee McGowan]

Right To a stadium event.

[Tim Whitaker]

Yeah. For a man who wasn't even a politician but who spent a lot of time denigrating a lot of Americans is just, I think it just shows you how far down the river we really are at this point.

[Lee McGowan]

Yeah. I mean you have called this a five alarm fire that will only get worse. And you have told people to stop pretending. We are not in the middle of a religious war because we are. And I think you know this event which is called Building a legacy Remembering Charlie Kirk. So it's about building something on top of the ashes of this man. It's gonna be live streamed, there's gonna be guests, but the guests have been asked to wear their quote Sunday best, especially red, white and blue. And I don't think if that could be any more on the nose for Christian nationalism or American Christian nationalism. It just feels, it feels like a.

[Tim Whitaker]

Lot they are being who they are. And I mean that in a, in a very kind way. This is. They worship a God of empire. There's just no way around it. And this God wants them in charge and wants their most marginalized neighbors cast aside. We didn't even get time to talk about Doug Wilson's whole different discussion, you know, for the future. But make no mistake, we'll have you back. Yeah, make no mistake. Women's suffrage is on the table. It is on the. You think? People tell me, well, it's in the constitution. It will never get overturned. Oh, they're crafty. You think they aren't like working on it? I need people to wake up. Like, this is on the table.

[Lee McGowan]

Friends, it's 100% on the table. I mean, listen, we are getting rid of the first amendment right now. There's no way they're not going to get rid of the 19th. And they have these things that are like, well now you need a pass passport to vote. And you're like, okay, but my passport as a woman doesn't match my birth certificate. Right. I had a different name before I got married, so then I wouldn't be able to vote. Now they're saying, well we, we might pass a law where we can take your passport if we think You're a terrorist. Except they just said that all Democrats are terrorists. So that would mean you can take my passport. But then all of a sudden, I need a passport to vote. So all of a sudden Democrats cannot vote in this country. It is. This is what we're doing. So don't pretend it's not happening. What do you think the end game is here for these people?

[Tim Whitaker]

Total domination. I mean, gay people back in the closet, women mostly at home, one household vote situation. White men who we. We know are all. Are so qualified. I mean, Pete Hegseth. So let's talk about meritocracy, right? So qualified. Ultimately, it's just domination. It's all about the power and control. It's all about power and control. They will not. They don't care about stats. They don't care about health. They don't care about any of that. They care about. About power and control.

[Lee McGowan]

All right, so it's up to us, right? It's up to us fighting back. But particularly, as you've said, Christians who oppose this path to be super loud and active right now on behalf of their neighbors, on behalf of. Of what is being done in their.

[Tim Whitaker]

Name, especially white Christians. White Christians have a special obligation to be the ones who are taking the arrows. Because guess what, right? Even look, look. When. When Charlie Kirk was murdered, it was HBCUs that got death threats, okay? Our marginalized neighbors are always the first to be attacked. Under Christian fascism, white Christians have an obligation to put their bodies in place of the arrows and then learn from their black and queer neighbors and let them change how you see the world. 100. Not even a question must be done.

[Lee McGowan]

Okay. I want to thank you so much for coming today, Tim. I always love talking to you. Tell people how they can follow your work and get your perspective as we move forward.

[Tim Whitaker]

Sure. You can follow my organization that I founded. Melinda Hales, executive director. She's amazing at the new evangelicals on any social media platforms and podcasts. I also co host the Tim and April show, which now is streamed on Lincoln Square Media, on Substack and also on YouTube. And we do Christian nationalism, but it's a little more comedy because we need to laugh somehow. And then my personal socials is imwhitakerspeaks. That's me.

[Lee McGowan]

That's amazing. And for those of us who might not be religious or don't share your religion, you're still a man of faith. So what do you say to those of us who are, say, feeling lost and afraid right now?

[Tim Whitaker]

Well, I think that we have to build coalitions over shared values, not shared beliefs. It's just that simple, right? Do we. Can we share the same value of love for our neighbor, of universal healthcare, of not having our taxpayer money fund the genocide of other people groups? Can we just start there? I don't care what you believe on that regarding God or theology. We can discuss it over a campfire for fun. But can we align on these values of democracy and free speech, even when we're uncomfortable? Great. Let's work together. We have to.

[Lee McGowan]

Yeah, let's work together. Because we really do have to. Thank you so much for coming today, Tim. I always, always love having you here.

[Tim Whitaker]

Thank you for having me. It was great.

[Lee McGowan]

So that was Tim Whitaker encouraging us to build coalitions on shared values, not shared belief. That in the midst of these white Christian nationalist takeover and the demonization of everyone who doesn't believe as they do, it is dependent on us, particularly the white Christians who oppose this dominating, hateful course of action, to stand up and offer an alternative, to take the arrows for our marginalized and minority neighbors. Because we can't just allow this takeover to happen unchallenged. I want to thank Tim for joining us today and you for caring enough about democracy to be here now. As Tim says, in an age of propaganda, go out and tell the truth. Until next week. PG out. Before you go, I want to ask you to support my work. We are living through the destruction of our freedom of speech right now. And if you are already a premium member of this podcast, then thank you. And if you're not, I want to encourage you to join with mainstream media. Under the sway of a handful of billionaires and public stations being defunded, independent media is more important than ever. If you see worth in what we are doing here, please consider becoming a member of Politics Girl Premium by going to politicsgirl.com and signing up. You will get this podcast ad free along with my rants sent directly to your inbox. So even if my work is silenced on social media, you will still get access to the truth. There is a link to sign up in the bio of this episode but [e-mail] and as always, please like follow and share this podcast so we can grow the audience. Because the more people who have access to this kind of information, the faster we can change back to something better. As always, thank you for your time and support. The Politics Girl podcast is written and performed by me, Lee McGowan and produced and edited by Happy Warrior Entertainment. All rights reserved.