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The PoliticsGirl Podcast
We’re Giving These Guys Money?! : A Conversation about the Presidential Slush Fund with Liz Oyer
00:49:59
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- [00:00]
A
The amount of debt that Donald Trump has forgiven through pardons is over $1.5 billion. That's money that is owed to victims of crime as well as taxpayers from financial frauds and other crimes committed by wealthy Americans that were then forgiven by Donald Trump. So $1.5 billion owed to us and to victims of crimes that Trump wiped out with his par.
- [00:34]
B
Hello, and welcome to the Politics Girl podcast. I'm your host, Lee McGowan. Let's get into it. Well, after this week, the Trump administration is no longer just a corrupt enterprise. It's more like a criminal one. In case you weren't following the case where Donald Trump was suing the Justice Department over a leaked tax return, the same tax returns he'd promised to release himself since 2014 but never did. Trump was demanding a $10 billion payout, but has now officially dropped the lawsuit, which was completely outrageous. It was a case that likely would have been thrown out should it have ever got to court, because his personally appointed lawyer and current acting attorney general offered him a settlement instead. A settlement which, among other things, will give him a $1.8 billion slush fund from taxpayer dollars to do with what he wants. To talk about this lawsuit, the settlement, and the additional side dishes of the settlement, I am speaking today with former DOJ official and presidential pardon lawyer Liz about what she calls the biggest heist in history. If you don't know Liz from social media or substack, where she gives her legal and governmental expertise to Us Daily, she was fired from the DOJ in March 2025 after she refused Trump's request to let Mel Gibson have his gun rights restored just because he wanted them to be. To her, the law still mattered because along with her being a pardon attorney, Liz had spent 10 years as a federal public defender. So without further ado, please welcome my guest, former DOJ pardon attorney, federal public defender, and legal expert sounding the alarm about the Trump administration's abuse of our legal system. Liz Oyer. Welcome, Liz.
- [02:10]
A
Thanks, Lee. Thanks for having me.
- [02:12]
B
Oh, my gosh. Thank you for joining me. I was just saying my husband is flipping out. He's like your biggest fan. So I'm so, so pleased to have you on here. Tell me you've been doing extensive coverage of this recent lawsuit, the settlement, and now the slush fund around the Trump leaked tax returns. Would you mind getting people up to speed on what was going on and where the whole thing sits now?
- [02:33]
A
Yeah, sure. So this all relates back to this lawsuit that Donald Trump filed in January about the leak of his tax returns by the irs. Tax returns are confidential. They're not supposed to be leaked. It's actually a crime to leak them. And an IRS contractor a few years back went to prison for leaking the tax returns of Donald Trump and thousands of other Americans. This was. Wasn't specific to Trump, but Trump, being the opportunist that he is, decided to file a lawsuit over this. And he waited until he was in charge of the Justice Department to file it, and he asked for $10 billion in damages. The lawsuit had absolutely no legal merit. A judge, it appeared, was going to throw it out. But Donald Trump's Attorney general, who actually used to be his personal attorney for many years, was his personal criminal defense attorney, swooped in and decided to reach a settlement with Donald Trump. And the settlement created this $1.776 billion slush fund. The settlement really has nothing to do with the lawsuit itself, which was about Trump's tax returns being leaked, because that really did not cause Trump any cognizable financial damages. The idea that Trump was financially damaged by that leak, it's just not true. There's no merit to it. But he used it as a pre. To create this slush fund that would allow the government to make payments from our tax dollars to Donald Trump's supporters and allies. And the rules that apply to the slush fund are very vague, very unclear. It appears to give a huge amount of discretion to five people who are appointed to control this fund to make payments to pretty much whomever they choose. And it's all confidential. The Attorney General appoints these five people. They. They're allowed to make their own rules for distributing the money, and they're not even required to report to the taxpayers or the public who is getting the money, how much money they're getting, or why.
- [04:37]
B
Liz. Liz. Wild. So ridiculous. Like, I. I don't even know what to say to you. I mean, let's just back up a couple of things, okay? First of all, when these were leaked, when these were originally leaked, it was during Trump's first term. So this technically happened under his own leadership, under his own ey. Irs. Then the contractor who leaked them, which, by the way, you said it was not Trump specific, there was about 400 other 400,000 other people whose tax returns were leaked at the same time. And then that person was prosecuted under the Biden administration and went to jail for five years. Correct?
- [05:14]
A
Exactly.
- [05:15]
B
Okay, so we're in a place where he's using this as a pretense to get this slush fund. And as you were saying, you know, he's coming in, he demands $10 billion from the government, a government he controls. But the before the case could actually get thrown out because he didn't have much of a case. Right. Is that right?
- [05:34]
A
Legally, he had no case. Yeah.
- [05:36]
B
Yeah. Okay. So before it can get thrown out, because technically, I think you also can't sue yourself. He's technically suing himself to get money. Todd Blanche, who, as you mentioned, was his own criminal attorney for years and is currently the acting Attorney General, after we fired Pam Bondi, he swooped in, he offered this settlement of taxpayer DO dollars. But it also comes with a bunch of other perks, you know, for Trump. And I want people to understand this thing about Todd Blanche. Todd Blanche became active head of the Justice Department, the acting Attorney General, after I said Pam was fired. But to be the attorney general proper, you need Senate confirmation. They are not doing that. They're just allowing Todd to kind of take the role, which is a lot of what Trump did in his first term, where it was like, we're not going to go through Senate confirmation. We're just going to have this person be the acting head of the FBI or the acting head of the Justice Department. But that allows him to kind of get away with a lot of people who shouldn't have those jobs, staying in those jobs. And we should also remind people that Todd Blanch himself is the same guy who moved Ghislaine Maxwell from her maximum security prison to a minimum security prison. You know, her camp Fed that she's in now, where she has her puppy and everything. That was also a Todd Blanche move. Now, this fund that you're talking about that they're going to set up, first of all, I think the number matters because it's $1.776 billion, which I think is a wink and a nod to 1776, which this administration seems to love to do little catchy, hilarious things with numbers. But they're calling it an anti weaponization fund, which is a fancy way of saying personal slash fund for Trump to pay off whoever he wants, including himself. But there's also this additional clause, which appears to be a lifetime cease and desist against the IRS prosecuting or pursuing Trump or any other parties for underpaying or not paying their taxes.
- [07:26]
A
So there's. The main part of the settlement agreement was revealed first. And we thought this was just about creating this settlement fund. And that was bad enough. Standing alone. I mean, that is just unbelievably corrupt. It is essentially a criminal conspiracy between the President and the acting Attorney general to sit steal taxpayer money. But that wasn't the entire agreement. A day later, there was a separate portion of the agreement that came out, sort of a secret addendum to the agreement that was signed by Todd Blanche. And it was a promise that the United States government will not investigate, audit, or sue Donald Trump in the future. And it claims to be a release of all claims that we might have against Trump for all of time. So this would apply even after Todd Blanche is no longer the Attorney General. Donald Trump is no longer the president. We would be prohibited from seeking any type of legal recourse against Trump. That would include collecting unpaid taxes. It essentially says, don't worry about paying your taxes because we're agreeing. We're not going to go after you for your taxes. It would also include any other lawsuits against not just him personally, but his businesses. It applies to all of his businesses. It also applies to all of his family members. So this essentially says that Donald Trump and his family members and his companies are now free to violate the laws to cheat, lie, steal, and the United States government has no recourse against them. Todd Blanche signed away our rights as citizens and taxpayers to seek legal recourse against Trump and his companies. And I just cannot overstate how shocking that is. Blanche, as the acting Attorney General, took an oath to uphold the Constitution and support. Support the laws of the United States. He owes us a fiduciary duty, a duty of trust to protect our interests and to safeguard our money, frankly. And instead, he decided to give away nearly $2 billion to Donald Trump and his allies, and he decided to sign away all of our legal rights against Donald Trump into the future. It is just absolutely shocking misconduct by the highest official at the Justice Department.
- [09:43]
B
Yes, but not at all surprising, if I may say so, Liz, because honestly, we have a Supreme Court who also made oaths to the Constitution, who essentially made the president above criminal law a couple years ago, and now we have him above tax law as well. This is a man who has already been convicted of tax fraud, who probably owes, I think, over a hundred million dollars or something in back taxes. This settlement deal is just an absolute travesty for anyone who believes the law matters or that we should all be under the law on the same rules. I don't even know what we're doing here. Like, when I talk about the slush fund, to me, is this just a way to line Donald's pockets more, or will he use it to pay off his friends and his donors as he sees fit? Because that's what I think is going to happen. He can use it for himself, but he can also say like, hey, you know, you've done me a favor. Here's a solid. There's this, there's already people lining up for these cash payments. And that's everyone from January six insurrectionists to Mike Mypillow Lindell to proud boys, you know, leader Enrico Terrio, who was, until he was pardoned by Donald Trump in prison for seditious conspiracy. He's out here saying, I'm going to get two to five million dollars from this fund. And I'm like, what are we even doing here?
- [10:59]
A
Yeah, you're right. People are lining up to make these claims and it's not clear who will get paid and how much because it's totally at the discretion of these five people who are going to be appointed to dole out the money. But certainly a theme seems to be people who have support Donald Trump in some way, including people who have broken laws in support of Donald Trump. This is a way to mobilize and reward his political supporters. It is a way to reward people who break laws, lie, cheat, steal and even commit violence in his name and on his behalf. And that's what's really so scary about this. Lee. I mean, think back to the pardons of the January 6th rioters. That was shocking at the time because Donald Trump was essentially telling all of these people who committed political violence in his name that he had their backs, he was going to protect them, he was going to erase their convictions. Now he's going a step further even than that. And he's saying also, I'm going to pay you for your trouble. So it's not just that there are no legal consequences, it's also that you can get paid, you can get financial compensation for showing your support for Donald Trump, even if it means you are breaking laws, even if it means you are hurting police officers, wreaking havoc on the United States government, interfering with our elections. All of these types of really anti democratic actions that have been encouraged by Donald Trump. He is even further encouraging by making them financially lucrative. You can get a payday if you do this in the name of Donald Trump. It is really just shocking. I mean, I know you said you're not surprised. Things continue to surprise me occasionally and this is one of them. Just this staggering scope of corruption here and self dealing. It really did. This one is a big one.
- [12:44]
B
Yeah, I agree with you. And I have to say my concern and the way things are going right now is that we can not really claim that we have a rule of law anymore. If there's a rule of law for us, you and me, normies people out here. But much like in a dictatorship, if you know the leader, if you work for the leader, if you're friends with the leader, if you give money to the leader, you can kind of get away with everything. And that includes everything that's in the Epstein files. You know, raping, torturing, murdering children. We'll just sit on that. To financial crimes, to violent crimes like attacking the Capitol. It's, it's a hard thing to sit with that this is the way we're doing it now. And like you said, I mean, it's like people will be like, well, Donald Trump's not making the decisions. You're like, no, this five person committee is making the decisions. And that five person committee is completely appointed by Todd Blanche who works directly for Donald Trump. So Donald Trump is making the decisions. You've, you've been really clear. Like it's a, it's a level of corruption that is beyond what we have seen in the past. And it still feels kind of shocking, this abuse of power, this overall and complete disdain for the rule of law. But it's also just a major heist of taxpayer dollars.
- [13:52]
A
It is, I mean, in my view this really rises to the level of criminal conduct. It's a criminal conspiracy between the acting Attorney General and the President. It rises to the level of Watergate and then some. It's even more corrupt than Watergate because of the amount of money that is at stake here and the way in Donald Trump and people in his orbit are being enriched by cheating, lying and stealing from taxpayers. It is, I believe, the most corrupt government act that we've seen in our history. Certainly that I, that I remember.
- [14:28]
B
Yeah, well, I mean, you saying people in his orbit, I mean that's the thing. It's not just the January 6th insurrectionist, it's not just the Mike Lindell's and then Rico Tarios, like apparently Republican Congress members on the House Appropriations Committee also just voted to allow themselves to receive settlements from this fund. Somebody said recently that Republicans, it's not so much that they're afraid of Trump, they are co conspirators in his coup against our government. They have neutered their own power and are allowing our democracy to get destroyed to cash in. And I feel like the Appropriations Committee voting that they themselves could get settlements is just another indication of that. Functional mushrooms seem to be all the hype right now. So like the Nerd I am. I did a bunch of research into the different companies working with them and the same company kept coming up on the best of's Mud Water. Are you someone that struggles with brain fog or feeling groggy in the morning but you're sensitive to caffeine or you don't want to feel jittery, then MUDWTR might be for you. Mud WTR's original blend is a coffee only alternative made with cacao, chai, turmeric and functional mushrooms like lion's mane and reishi. You get a warm, focused boost without that wired buzz or midday crash that comes with a cup of coffee. And if you're still like me, not ready to let go of coffee, but you don't want the anxiety that comes with it, MUDWTR actually just launched a new low caffeine coffee made with organic coffee beans, L theanine and the same functional mushrooms you get in the other blend. It's rich in and smooth with only 45 milligrams of caffeine. So you get the coffee flavor you love without the spiraling thoughts. So whether you're mixing up the original blend or trying something gentler than your usual coffee, MUDWTR makes it easy to start the day feeling good. You can order it online like I do, or you can grab it at Target or Sprouts nationwide. Ready to make the switch to Clean Energy? Head to mudwtr.com and grab your starter kit today. Right now our listeners get an exclusive deal up to 43% off starter kits plus free shipping and a free rechargeable frother when you use the Code Politics Girl. That's right. Up to 43% off with the code politicsgirl@m u d w t r.com and after you purchase, if they ask how you found them, please support the show and let them know we sent you. Try the consistent energy of Mud Water. No spikes at 9, no crash at 2. Just steady all day. I think I told you that I finally got my husband Sean wearing moisturizer. I have been trying for years but he always found that moisturizer made him sweat and he hated the feeling. But he recently saw himself on camera and was like, what is up with all my lines? Why do I look so dehydrated? So now he's using both a moisturizer and an eye cream. And you know what he's using? One Skin. The core of One Skin is the OS1 peptide, extensively studied for its role in skin longevity and proven to address a leading driver of visible skin aging for skin that looks and feels younger and healthier over time. It's certified safe for sensitive skin. Their products are free from over 1500 harsh or irritating ingredients. It's dermatologist tested and has been awarded the National Eczema Association Seal of Acceptance. You get all of those powerful results without worrying if you have sensitive skin. Wenskin's results are backed by four peer reviewed clinical studies studies over 10,000 five star reviews and they've been recognized by Bloomberg as a leader in skin longevity. As Sean will tell you, you don't need a complicated routine to get healthier younger looking skin born from over a decade of longevity research. OneSkin's OS1 peptide is proven to target the visible signs of aging, helping you unlock your healthiest skin now and as you age for a limited time, try OneSkin with 15% off using the code PoliticsGirl at once OneSkin Co slash Politics Girl. That's 15% off at OneSkin Co with the code Politics Girl. And after you purchase, if they ask where you heard about them, please support the show. Tell them we sent you the Appropriations Committee. Voting that they themselves could get settlements is just another indication of that.
- [18:25]
A
Well, this is an area where Congress really has not just the power, but a duty to act and shut this down. It is unconscionable if Congress lets this go forward and certainly if they take any money from this fund. The way our Constitution is structured, Congress is the only branch of government that has the authority legally to appropriate money. So if the government's going to spend a bunch of money on something, Congress has to authorize it. Here. What has happened is Donald Trump and Todd Blanch have put their heads together to try to do this workaround around Congress because they know that Congress is not going to appropriate $2 billion for this settlement fund. So they decided to package this up as a settlement of a lawsuit and try to do a workaround of Congress. But Congress, under the Constitution could shut this down in one second. Congress could pass a bill saying we do not authorize any money to be spent for this purpose. Period. The end. And it's over. The settlement fund is done. So that is what Congress should and could easily do and frankly that they have an obligation to do as part of our constitutional democracy. It's not clear what they're going to do. But yesterday I will say things started to fall apart for Republicans on the Hill because they were concerned about the future of this settlement fund. Todd Blanch went up to the Hill this week to meet with Republicans in Senate and try to persuade them to get on board with this. And one thing that he dangled in front of them was the idea that they can file claims, they can get a payout from this fund. He sent them some talking points in advance, and the talking points actually say Republican senators are eligible for payments from this fund. Not just senators. Republicans in Congress who been victims of weaponized justice, whatever that means, can get a payday from this fund. And I think he believed that that would bribe them into getting on board, but it didn't have the effect that he thought. There are still a lot of Republicans who are upset about this. And in fact, they were so upset yesterday that they had to adjourn without passing this big funding bill that they were considering for ICE and Customs and Border Patrol. And they broke early for their Memorial Day recess. And now they're out of session for another week. And it's uncle clear what they will do with this slush fund when they get back. But this is a real opportunity for Congress to step up and perform their constitutional function and put some limits on this out of control president who is overreaching in every possible domain.
- [21:00]
B
Yeah. And I should remind people you and I are speaking on the Friday before the Memorial Day weekend. So when this drops, we will be one day into the week of next week after the Memorial Day weekend. So that people will understand not nothing will happen over the weekend because they're all going to go on vacation. But I do think it's interesting that Todd Blanche scooted himself up to talk to the Republican senators and was basically trying to win their support by saying, you can also be part of this. You could also make money from this. He was literally attempting to pay off the jury. The whole room felt like a backroom deal to not only pay off friends and supporters, but also to pay off the people that would vote if they're allowed to do it in the first place. I feel like they may as well have just backed up a truck to the US Mint and left with a billion dollars in gold bars, because that's how outrageous this is. I feel like every single day we're watching just astronomical levels of corruption on all fronts with this administration. We got the Trump boys getting their drone deals for the war their fathers started from the government he runs. We've got Jared Kushner being the envoy and negotiator in the Middle east with these insane conflicts of interests over there. We have the entire Board of Peace that we paid $10 billion into so Donald Trump could run it. That's already been paid for by The American taxpayer. We got the ballroom, we got the arch, we've got Trump's insider trading that we now know about. It just feels like never ending. But this settlement takes the corruption to a whole different level. And it also feels like it's quite illegal to do this. Do you think that at the end of the day, it'll go through? Because you're talking about Republicans who are already wavering on it, and we know the Democrats are. Are deeply against it. Do you think this will ultimately go through?
- [22:37]
A
It will go into effect unless Congress takes some action to block it. And I was not hopeful, you know, just a couple of days ago, that Congress would do anything about this. But the latest headlines suggest that there are enough members of Congress on the Republican side who are concerned about this that they may actually intervene to block it. That would be absolutely huge, not just for this one issue, but in general, in proving that the Republicans are. Can stand up to Donald Trump. The Republicans in Senate are not just totally captured by Donald Trump. So it would be a very big deal if they do do that. We won't see anything further on that until June, when they come back from their recess. They're on recess for about 10 days over the Memorial Day holiday and into the following week. So we won't really know what they're going to do until sometime in June when they come back into session. But it does seem like a real opportunity for a possible turning point in our country. Country.
- [23:31]
B
Yeah. I mean, look at that. Ten days they're off. I mean, how many of us in America are getting 10 days off for the Memorial weekend? Like, I just. I feel like. Right. I. I just feel like, when are people going to wake up? How can they not see that this is just another attempt to award allies, to steal money from taxpayers to make himself more untouchable? I mean, this tax return thing is ludicrous. I just think it shouldn't matter what your political persuasion is at this point. You should be outraged by what's going on because you are being being robbed blind by your own government. And I just. I don't know how people can't see that this slush fund itself not only encourages Trump's most ardent supporters to commit even more crimes on his behalf, knowing he will not only pardon them, but they might make money from it as well. And I just think, like, what are. What are we even doing here if this is how we're functioning? Like. Like, is he not just setting it up to create a personal army that only answers to him and we, the Taxpayers are paying for that.
- [24:36]
A
It sure seems that way. I mean, Donald Trump is running the country as though it is his personal business and he can do whatever he wants with it. That our money is his money, he can decide how it's spent. There's no obligation to the American people. All of that is fundamentally wrong. The President is the steward of our resources on behalf of all of us. They're not his resources to decide what to do with. But he is essentially and has been looting our government. It is piracy what is going on here. The Trump family has come into office and they are just grabbing up whatever they can without any regard for their obligations to the public or really with legal constraints. And the fact that this settlement agreement has some provisions that apply to Trump's family members really just underscores what you're saying about Trump's son's profiting off of the drones and Trump's son in law profiting off of his business deals in Saudi Arabia. You know, we've now signed away our rights to pursue any recourse against them too. What they are doing to harm our country for their own personal enrichment. They're just grabbing up wealth around the world because of the official access they have through Donald Trump's presidency. That is money that to the extent they've pocketed it, it really should come back to the tower taxpayers. But now, because of this settlement agreement, if it holds up, we will not be able to pursue that type of relief after Donald Trump is gone. We have never seen this type of corruption in the presidency. I mean, regardless of what you think about the politics of any previous president, there is no president who's just level of grabbing up money and taking it for themselves has come even close to what Donald Trump is doing here.
- [26:18]
B
Yeah, no, it's, it's pretty nauseating. I completely agree with you. He's treating the taxpayer money like it's his money, like he gets to make all the decisions. And the thing is, is you can blame Donald Trump for it. He's definitely gobbling up as much as he can. He's Scrooge McDucking us. But I feel like it's the Republican Party as well who have absolutely abdicated their responsibility to hold him in check at all. They've just said, go ahead, do whatever you want. Absolutely. Because they have control of both houses of Congress and they could stop him whenever they want. I mean, this is the same man pardoning his criminal friends who is running a fraud division to punish his political enemies. He doesn't care about fraud. He cares about retribution. The irony of the man who is clearly weaponizing the government getting a billion dollar settlement for the government being weaponized is really something else. I. I find it so hard that you have to be an American right now, and every morning you wake up and you're told how much money our president is stealing from us, and then we have to kind of of go about our day as normal, paying our taxes, knowing it's going to all the wrong places.
- [27:21]
A
And it's not just limited to this settlement fund. It is really. Throughout Trump's presidency, he has used official power for personal profit in so many different ways. We've seen that with the pardons. Donald Trump's pardons have gone largely to wealthy people who are convicted of massive financial crimes, crimes that involved either cheating and stealing from regular people, including investors, and stealing money from taxpayers through type fraud, like Medicare fraud, Medicaid fraud, theft from federal programs. Those types of frauds have been forgiven by pardon after pardon after pardon that Donald Trump has granted. And I've put together some numbers, I've tallied it up. I have a running tab over on my sub stack. And the amount of debt that Donald Trump has forgiven through pardons is over $1.5 billion. That's money that is owed to victims of crime as well as taxpayers, from financial frauds, other crimes committed by wealthy Americans that were then forgiven by Donald Trump. So $1.5 billion owed to us and to victims of crimes that Trump wiped out with his pardons. There's Trump's personal financial investments and stock trades. It recently came out that Donald Trump is heavily involved in stock trading, even though he's the President of the United States. There was a report that he was required to sign and disclose of his financial transactions involving stock trades over $1,000 for the first first quarter of this year. And it disclosed that he had over 3,600 stock trades in virtually every sector of our economy. He's trading in energy, in media, in cryptocurrency in all of the major sectors that are implicated by his official actions. He's trading in defense contractors, people who are getting government contracts. He is buying up stocks and then awarding contracts to these companies that are worth, in some cases, billions of dollars. There's some small examples that really show the level of corruption. Like during the massive egg shortage in our country, Donald Trump bought up stock in the largest egg producer in the country, and then he sold it off after we got through the worst of that shortage, presumably at a profit. So he really is just so deeply entangled his personal wealth with his official actions on behalf of our country that there's no way to separate Donald Trump the businessman from Donald Trump the president. It is just, just thoroughly corrupt.
- [29:47]
B
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- [33:12]
A
There's no way to separate Donald Trump the businessman from Donald Trump the president. It is just thoroughly corrupt.
- [33:20]
B
Yeah, Donald Trump the corrupt businessman from Donald Trump the corrupt president. I mean, you are former pardon attorney. You know, you've been watching this all the way along. You've said that he's created an entirely new pardon economy. When we think about him withholding money from California because he says they committed Medicaid fraud or Medicare fraud. He's the one who's pardoned the two biggest proponents of Medicare and Medicaid fraud in the country, and one of them is a US Senator, and that's Rick Scott, who's from Florida. Right. Like, it's, they don't care about the fraud. They care about making money, their friends making money, their family making money, and then holding the government over the heads of the people that they don't like. I mean, I keep saying, you know, if you have the means these days, you can apply for a pardon, pay the president, have your crimes expunged, or say in Jared Kushner's dad's case, have Your crimes pardoned, get yourself out of jail, and then become ambassador to France. The whole thing seems insane, and yet this is what we're dealing with day to day in America.
- [34:17]
A
Yeah. I mean, one thing that I think is underreported about this corruption is the way that it impacts ordinary people. In the case of pardons, in my role as pardon attorney, which I did for three years, including into the Trump administration, before. Before I was fired by Donald Trump. Well, by Todd Blanche, I was invested in that work because there are deserving people out there who have paid their debts to society after, after serving a sentence for a crime, rebuilt their lives, and they are still affected by that conviction years and even decades later. For example, if you're a parent or a grandparent, having a criminal conviction on your record, Even if it's 25 years old for something minor, might prevent you from being able to go to your child's school and participate in an event in their classroom, them on a field trip. Same thing with getting professional licenses. In many professions, you need a license and even to work as, say, a barber or a hairstylist, you may not be able to get that license for that type of employment because of a very old criminal conviction. So there are people who deserve pardons who have really earned that opportunity, and those people are applying in droves for that relief through my old office, the Office of the pardon Attorney, right now, there are over 20,000 applications piled up from ordinary Americans that are just being, being ignored because those people don't have the political connections or the wealth to jump the line and get their application directly on the President's desk. Those deserving people are just, are sitting in a pile, gathering dust while Donald Trump is rewarding his allies and his supporters and his donors. And I think we're very focused on the corruption piece of it. Rightly. But people need to understand that there are other costs as well. There are costs to the deserving people who are not getting relief that they may deserve because this process has become so corrupted by Donald Trump and his allies and supporters who are also equally profiting off of their access.
- [36:14]
B
Yeah, I mean, it's really just so distressing. You think, like, okay, if Kim Kardashian comes forward and talks to the President for you, you could get a pardon. If you pay your million dollar entrance fee, you can get a pardon, but you have all these regular people who truly deserve pardons who aren't getting them because they can't pay the, the entrance fee to this administration. I mean, I just, again, I bring it Back to, like, I don't understand how long this can go on. How long until people realize that this is how he is running the American government. And I just think back to all the promises he made just off the top of my head. Like, you never got your Doge check. You never got your tariff check. They never sent the hospital boat to Greenland. We don't have 10% APR in our credit cards. Right? Our meds are not 100 to 1,500% cheaper, which of course makes no sense because they would have to pay us. Us. If our drugs were 100% cheaper, they would be free. We don't have $2 gas that he promised us. We don't have cheaper groceries. In fact, everything is more expensive. We're not releasing the Epstein files. We're in a new war. We can't have government services due to lack of finances, but we have money for the ballroom, for the Arch. I mean, it just never ends. I just. I feel like the people that are pushing back are Democrats and then Republicans that keep getting pushed out of power. People like Thomas Massie or Thom Tillis is leaving. Those two men are both being very vocal now. And it sort of depresses me that only Thomas Massie is a bit different. I think he really has stood up for the Epstein files. And I agree with him on very little, but he has. He was outspoken from the beginning against the war, against the Epstein files. But someone like Thom Tillis, you know, he's leaving and now he's speaking up. It's not that these Republicans don't know that this is going on. It's not that they don't understand that we're being robbed blind. It's not that they don't know that it's a criminal enterprise. They just all want a seat on the lifeboat rather than stopping the captain from driving us into the iceberg. And that's what makes me so crazy. It's like they're all in the captain's quarters. They can all pull the wheel away from him and they don't. They're just all counting on having a seat in the lifeboat when we crash. But the rest of us are on the boat, too. And that just makes me so, so crazy. It's so irresponsible.
- [38:24]
A
Yeah, that's a great analogy, Lee. I mean, it's just so short sighted what they're doing. They may save themselves for a period of time, but they're doing generational damage to our country. Just rebuilding trust in government is going to be a massive undertaking. After we get through this administration. I think about the Justice Department, where I used to work, and I think about pardons, which I viewed as really a. An important lever of mercy in our country. I mean, that is just broken in the eyes of the public. The Justice Department is not a credible institution. The pardon power is not a legitimate presidential power because of what Donald Trump has done with it. So the question of how we will rebuild is a really big one. I think the focus now, rightly, is on how do we get to an opportunity to rebuild. And it is my sincere hope that this, this just undeniably corrupt slush fund that Trump has created might be a turning point that will get some Republicans in Congress to see that they really need to step up and stop this incredible damage that's being done to our democracy before it is too late.
- [39:29]
B
Yeah, I always say that. It's not like their kids don't live here, too. It's not like their kids don't have to breathe the air or drink the water or live in a society that's collapsing around them. I mean, you recently did a speech at the annual dinner of the Massachusetts Bar association, and then you wrote about it on your sub stack. And the title of the piece was Calling All Lawyers this is Our Moment. And it was basically a piece about how the legal profession has really struggled to properly address this ongoing assault on our rule of law. What did you want people to take, especially lawyers, to take from that article?
- [40:05]
A
Lawyers have a special skill set, a special training that is uniquely valuable in this moment because. Because all of our systems are being assaulted and the courts have proven to be a way to get recourse, a way to stop some of this stuff. So I believe that all lawyers have an obligation to put those skills to use and to stand up for the rule of law, to use their voices, use their skills to help us to get our country back on track and stop the damage. Unfortunately, the legal profession as a whole has been slow to rise to the occasion. There are many, many lawyers who are doing everything under the sun, that they can protect immigrants, to protect people who are being wrongly deported, to protect people who are being taken advantage of, and to protect our democratic structures. But there are other segments of the legal profession, including sort of the corporate law practices, that have decided that they want to work with this administration. They don't want to get on the bad side of the administration. So early on, after Trump came back into office, they cut these corrupt deals with the administration that unfortunately, were very damaging because they made others afraid to stand up to Afraid to stand up to the bully in chief. And that was really disappointing to see this hit very close to home for me, because after I was fired from the Justice Department, I was very outspoken about it. And that made me the subject of retaliation by Todd Blanche, now the acting Attorney General. And I decided that I needed to find a lawyer to help me after I was the victim of retaliation by Todd Blanche. And it was very hard to find someone who was willing to step up and represent me because people were scared of taking on this administration. And they are vindictive. They are incredibly vindictive. Todd Blanche sent U.S. marshals to my home to deliver a warning letter to me about testimony that I gave in Congress, essentially telling me that I was taking legal risks if I went forward with this congressional testimony, which I ultimately did. But the bullying and the intimidation is real. And for me, it was just so jarring and scary to be in a situation where no lawyer wanted to stand beside me and represent me in that situation against the administration. And it's just been disappointing to see that response from some of my fellow lawyers. I do think that the legal profession has started to turn a corner, and most lawyers, if not all, are of the mindset that we need to do the right thing here and stand up for the rules of law. But it certainly has been a journey to. To get there for many.
- [42:48]
B
Yeah, it has. Unfortunately, you saw a lot of giant law firms roll over right away, and I kept thinking, but if you all stood together, he wouldn't have a chance. You know what I mean? Like, the law is the law, and if you stand behind the law and you're like, none of this is political for us. We're just following the law. And they were all like, woo. We're too afraid. And you're like, you're the people that are supposed to stand up. You're the people that are supposed to be the front line. What can you leave us with that might be hopeful? You recently pointed out that the Justice Department is ostensibly dead, decimated by mass departure of staffs, attack on the rule of law. What is your silver lining?
- [43:22]
A
Yeah, what. What gives me hope every day is to see how many of my fellow citizens are committed to doing the right thing and to standing up to the wrongs of this administration. The Justice Department is absolutely in shambles, and we are seeing people walk away from their jobs because of that. But the good is people are walking away because they don't want to be complicit in the destruction of our constitutional democracy. They don't want to be complicit in the abuse of the powers of the Justice Department. So I commend those public servants who have decided that they're going to quit rather than be used as pawns in Donald Trump's political agenda. There are still civil servants who are trying to hold it down inside the Justice Department as well and are trying to do good work there. And I commend those people, too. I think that there are a lot of people who really just demonstrated integrity by making hard decisions. The decision whether to leave Federal Service or stay is a hard one to make right now, and people are approaching it with integrity and approaching it from the perspective of how can I help our country most during this time? Is it by leaving that I help, or is it by staying that I help? And it's been encouraging to me to see so many people who are willing to make sacrifices and walk away from their job to uphold what they believe in. It's also been encouraging to me to see how many other people share my concerns about the direction that we are headed and how many people are trying to use whatever platform they have to speak up, use their voice, and try to affect change. It doesn't always feel like a lot. You know, just sharing a message on Instagram might not feel like a lot. Or calling your senator and leaving a message saying, please don't do this or please do this might not feel like a lot. But it all adds up. And that is how we make change. It can feel very overwhelming and even paralyzing if you feel, you wake up, you read this bad news day after day, and then you feel like, how can we fix this? I don't know how to fix this, but you don't have to fix the whole thing by yourself. And that's what I try to remind myself. You don't have to take it all on at once. Just do a little bit each day. And those changes, with so many of us committed to getting our country back on track, I think are what are going to get us to the other side of this. Don't give up on the small actions that can make change because you're overwhelmed by the bigger picture. I believe that there's strength in numbers and in collective action, and we will get to the other side of this together.
- [45:52]
B
Yeah, I agree with that, too. I say that all the time. That, like, even having a conversation at your dining room table with your parents or with your friends at dinner, you might think, like, we don't really like to talk about politics, but this is exactly the time you want to be doing it. You want to start changing the culture from the inside so we're not as easy to take advantage of. So people are like, well, that's outrageous. What do you mean? We can't audit him for the rest of his life or his family. People should know that. And you can say that at dinner. And that's not going to be political. People are going to be like, hold on, what? Like, that is something we should be talking about. Change the culture, change the way people are feeling about him, and then get people registered to vote. I keep saying that, like, don't discount voting. If we do what Hungary did, if we come out at 80%, it doesn't matter how much they've gerrymandered the country, they're not going to be able to overcome that kind of turnout. And that starts with the conversations. It starts with the smaller actions that you're talking about. It doesn't have to be you yourself in the street every day or, you know, becoming a lawyer at the Justice Department yourself, which, by the way, I believe they're having a lot of trouble finding new staff over there. No one wants to work there anymore when it used to be a place that everyone wanted to work. But whoever the next Attorney General is, they are going to have to rebuild the trust in the Justice Department. They're going to need, need to be able to clearly communicate the purpose and mission of the DoJ as it pertains to Americans and the needs of Americans and equal justice under the law, so that it becomes not just a catchphrase, but something we actually do. I think that's going to be something that we're going to have to really take in by the end of the next administration if we get to that point. So I want to thank you so much for joining us today. Liz, please tell people how they can follow your work moving forward to keep up with your cases. Your bio says you are hardwired to stand up to bullies, so you are the kind of person that we need to be following at all times.
- [47:33]
A
Yeah. Thanks so much for having me on, Lee. I really enjoyed this conversation. I am posting about these issues on social media, including Substack as well as YouTube and Instagram and TikTok. I'm on all of those platforms as Lawyeroyer and you can find me there.
- [47:49]
B
Perfect. Thank you so much for all your hard work lays and really keep it up. We need every single one of us doing our part to change the topic side here.
- [47:57]
A
Thanks, Lee. I appreciate all you're doing as well. And I really enjoyed this conversation.
- [48:01]
B
So that was Liz Oyer reminding us that we are dealing with an outrageous level of corruption from the President and his allies, who clearly have a complete disdain for the rule of law. And in the wake of this settlement, the billion dollar slush fund, and any further ability for the US Government to hold Trump, his businesses or his family accountable for tax evasion in perpetuity, even the President's most ardent supporters have to be questioning what's going on here. At the end of the day, taxpayer money is not the President's money to do with what he wants. The truth is, we are being robbed blind and paying for the pleasure. I want to thank Liz for joining us today and you for caring enough about the rule of law to be here. Now go and tell your friends and family how disgusting this settlement is, because everyone really needs until next time, pgm. Before you go, I want to remind you that the American government is trying to silence any voices that don't toe the party line. They don't want people to know what they're doing, which is why they've had their billionaire friends buy up all the media and why we need to be funding independent media. So if you respect what I'm trying to do here, if you would like to get this podcast ad free delivered directly to your inbox along with my kitchen rants and TV appearances is please consider becoming a member of Politics Girl Premium by going to politicsgirl.com and signing up. If you're already a premium member of this podcast, thank you so much for your support. And if you're not a member, please consider becoming a patron of my work. If you want real knowledge in a world of lies, it is essential to support those of us out here still trying to bring them to you. There is a link to sign up in the bio of this episode, but also@politicsgirl.com and as always, please like and share these podcasts so we can grow our audience. Because the more people who have access to this kind of information, the better. As always, thank you for your time and support. The Politics Girl Podcast is written and performed by me, Lee McGowan, and produced and edited by Happy Warrior Entertainment. All rights reserved.