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The PoliticsGirl Podcast
What is the Future of the Democratic Party? With Indivisible’s Ezra Levin
00:51:08
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- [00:00]
Ezra Levin
If you're waiting for some big national organization or some big donor network to change the Democratic Party, I have bad news for you. It's not going to change, or at least it's not going to change in the direction you want. So if you would like the Democratic Party to be better, I don't think it's enough to just say, I'm disappointed. It's not enough just to call out Chuck Schumer and say, I don't think he's a good leader. If we want a better Democratic Party, we, all of us, we have to do the work to demand that party. And that means getting involved in these primaries. That means getting involved with the attention we give candidates, with the votes we give candidates, with the money we give candidates. This is all going to play out in the coming few months. And so the question is really, do we take advantage of this opportunity? I really hope folks around the country, especially in these key districts and states, do.
- [00:56]
Lee McGowan
Hello, and welcome to the Politics Girl podcast. I'm your host, Lee McGowan. Let's get into it. So, as I said last week, today we're going to be talking about the disappointment people felt when certain Senate Democrats capitulated to the Republicans and after a 40 day government shutdown, voted to reopen the government without getting any concessions. The takeaway from the election was that Americans are sick to death of what the Republicans are inflicting on us. From ICE raids to the government shutdown to the lack of care for our health and food. We are tired of Donald Trump and his lies and his cabal of sycophants and. And we came out across the country to say so. Election Day was a really good day for people who believe in democracy. And then five days later, it was a bad day for people who believe in Democrats and Democratic leadership. After really holding firm, refusing to give the Republicans the votes they needed to reopen the government without an agreement to renew the tax subsidies that make the Affordable Care act affordable. Seven Democrats and one independent senator defected or sold out or caved, and they agreed to sign the continued resolution to open the government for basically nothing in return. Not only did it blindside everyone who was finally proud of the Democrats for standing strong and fighting back, it was a kick in the face to everyone who had just come out on election Day to say, we refuse to take what the Republicans are doing sitting down, it was a capitulation that most of us were wholly unprepared for, and it pissed a lot of people off. One of those people is my friend Ezra Levin, the co founder and executive director of Indivisible. Ezra started Indivisible with his wife, Leah Greenberg, with a vision of a real democracy of, by and for the people. Since then, it has become an incredible grassroots movement of thousands of local groups across the nation with the mission to rebuild democracy and defeat the Trump agenda. No. Kings Day is the brainchild of Ezra and Lia. They have been fighting tooth and nail to give us a chance at something better. And the action by these eight senators infuriated them and instigated a new plan for democratic primaries in 2026. But I will let Ezra explain it to you. So without further ado, please welcome my guest, co founder and executive director of Indivisible, Ezra Levin. Hi, Ezra.
- [03:05]
Ezra Levin
Hey, Leigh. Great to see you.
- [03:06]
Lee McGowan
So you were just here, like, just here? We had the incredible no Kings rallies around the country that you, with the help of collaboration of many other groups, organized so successfully, and I had you here talking about. But since then, we had the election where the Democrats dominated the entire country. Red and blue states, proving that the majority of us are unhappy with the direction the country is going. And then we had the government shutdown because the Republicans refused to negotiate with the Democrats on anything, including protecting our healthcare. And we were winning that until we weren't. So tell me what you think happened.
- [03:42]
Ezra Levin
We were winning it. Look, you just said it. We were riding high. I would say for the first time in a year since Trump won reelection. I think this was the first time that the Republicans were on. On defense. Our side was on offense. Their approval ratings were going down. The public was rallying to our side. As you said, we had the largest protest in American history with no King sue in October. We trounced them in Mississippi, in Georgia, in California, in New Jersey, in New York City. Everywhere the regime was on the ballot. They got creamed, they got crushed. We won. And so we headed into the weekend after the election feeling we're winning this damn thing. We're finally going to show them what it looks like when the Democratic Party unifies and fights back. That's what works. And then, Then the Senate Democrats surrendered. They didn't settle for half a loaf. That's not what they did. They didn't cut a bad deal. They got nothing, Lee. They got nothing. They got an agreement for a future vote on a bill that the Republicans already said they're going to kill. So they got nothing for health care. They had the longest shutdown in history, caused massive amounts of damage to people who are willing to accept the harm in Order to fight for a big win. And then they got nothing. They gave up entirely. And we took a vote in the lead up to that surrender, asking our members, indivisible members. So look, this has been going on for a while, the shutdown. Do you think the Democrats should cut a deal, get out of it, they've made their point. Or do you think they should keep fighting until they get those ACA subsidies, until they lower those health care prices? That's what they've been fighting for. 98.76% of indivisible members said, keep up the fucking fight, keep fighting back. That's what our folks want. That's what normal rank and file Democrats want. That's what American people wanted. And the Senate Democrats said, no, we got to go back home. We don't want this to keep on going on. So we're going to go on vacation, we're going to surrender, and then we'll move on. And in response to that, we launched the biggest primary program that we've ever launched, Indivisible, because we are done trying to convince these guys, mostly guys, to unify and fight back against the regime. It is time to demand a better party, and the time to do that is in the primaries.
- [05:42]
Lee McGowan
Yeah, it's time to demand a better party. And you know what? Primaries are very Democratic.
- [05:47]
Ezra Levin
Yes.
- [05:47]
Lee McGowan
You know what I mean? Like, people forget that primaries are actually a great way to actually find our leadership. I mean, I was reading Robert Reich after this incident, and he was like, look, the Democrats were overwhelmingly, as you were saying, united in their shutdown demands. Americans understood that Trump and the Republicans were to blame. Voters let it be known that they would elect leaders that stood up to Trump, and Democrats held all the cards, and then they folded for no reason. And while I think you could make the argument that there was a reason, you know, there was a lot of people suffering. I feel like this Democratic capitulation was such a major misstep, and that's why you and I are talking today.
- [06:28]
Ezra Levin
I don't have it out for any individual Democrat. I would love nothing more than to be cheerleading Chuck Schumer and the rest of the Democrats because they're fighting back. That's what we spent the 40 plus days of the shutdown doing. But we cannot push back against an authoritarian regime with a divided, fractured, and cowardly opposition. It just won't work. And to your point, there's. There's nothing in conflict between needing to crush the regime electorally, which we will do in the next midterms, and Demanding a better Democratic Party in the primaries. Here's what I'll tell you. What we are focused on is primarily safe districts and safe seats where the Democrats going to win the general election. The question is what kind of Democrat. And secondly, we're going to rally around whoever the winner of the primary is, so we're not going to win every single one of these primary fights. And when it comes to the general election, the choice is between a Democrat of some flavor and a fascist sympathizer. Those are the choices. I'm very clear on who I support. One of the troubling things about the current Senate Democratic leadership, Chuck Schumer, is when Mamdani won the New York City primary in Schumer's own damn city. Schumer never endorsed him and I bet voted for Cuomo. We cannot have leadership that says the Democratic Party's tent needs to be so small that Mamdani, who wins young men by 40 points and blows out of the water, that failed opposition within the Democratic Party. We can't have a Democratic leadership that says, no, no, he doesn't belong in our party. We need to build a big tent. And that means accepting a lot of folks and primarily welcoming people who are going to fight back against this regime. And we can demand that in primary. So I'm. Look, I was mad. I'll be honestly, I was very mad. And now I'm excited because the stakes are clear. The surrender, the capitulation. It was so blatant, it was such an utter collapse that lots of folks are now saying, okay, how do, how do we build a Democratic Party that's better and we've got an opportunity. It's right there in front of us. We just need to take it.
- [08:32]
Lee McGowan
Yeah. And I think in many ways what you're talking about with Chuck Schumer is the problem. It's not just his leadership in the Senate, which you could, you know, make a debate on either side for. It's things like the Mamdani election, the fact that this candidate brought out more Democratic primary voters than has ever come up before, that they won young women and young men, which the Democrat Party needs back so badly. And the leadership, especially the leadership from that own the same state, refused to get behind him. That was the problem. It felt like a real failure of leadership. And I think you and I would would agree. We want to be clear. We keep saying the Democrats, the Democrats folded, the Democrats capitulated. But we, I think we should be clear that it's not the Democrats on hold because seven Democratic Senators were the ones that worked with Republicans to reopen the government on a Sunday afternoon without telling any of us. But 40 Democratic senators and all the Democratic House members did not. So I don't want to lump them all together. So we just mass hate all the Democrats. I don't think that's fair. I don't think that's helpful. But I do think it is important to acknowledge that many Americans were hurting because of the shutdown. Right. But caving to the Republicans only ends up hurting Americans more, because Trump and his people, the people that are doing his bidding, have been very clear that they have the power to slash whatever programs they don't like. And they don't like a lot of the programs. Right. So they literally took us to court to argue they should be able to deny people money that was allocated to them for food. So any deals we make with this particular group seems quite meaningless. You're like, oh, they're gonna negotiate later. You're like, oh, they're gonna negotiate later. The people that literally lie about everything. So what I think that we're seeing right now from the response the voters are giving us is that they want a Democratic Party that fights back. They know this system is rigged. They know the government as it is for sure is not looking out for them. And they want representatives who are not gonna buckle under pressure. And although we do have some fighters, we also have too many status quo. Let's go back to capitulators. And that is the problem. Like, I was at a event over the weekend for Mallory McMorrow, who's running to be the next senator from Michigan, and she's an outsider who I love, and that's who I'm behind. And one of the things she said was, it's time for a new Democratic Party, that it's no longer old guard versus new guard. It's about whether you're a fighter or a folder. And I thought that was a really good way of putting it.
- [11:07]
Ezra Levin
I've heard fighter versus folder rhetoric, that line from a few different Senate Democratic challengers and folks in the House. But just to pick up on a couple things, you said, look, we have a ton of great fighters in the House and the Senate. There are great Democrats out there that are on the right side of history right now. Maxwell Frost, Jasmine Crockett, Jamie Raskin, Elizabeth Warren, Bernie Sanders, Chris Murphy, Chris Van Halen. Like, we all have our favorites. And it's not the Democrats. To your point, there are a lot of great Democrats out there, but we shouldn't be blind to the fact that there is a fight playing out within the Democratic Party right now, exactly as you just described it, between those who want to fight and those who believe this is politics as usual. And so if you are somebody out there who's been frustrated, feeling like, gosh, the Democrats just aren't getting it together, like, why aren't they unifying, fighting back? I'm here to tell you, you're right to feel that, that when we talk to our friends on Capitol Hill, we're trying to build the coalition necessary in order to Democratic leadership into an oppositional stance. But we don't have the numbers yet. We just don't have the numbers yet. So when it comes to these primaries, I do think that's the important framework. It's, it's not just left versus right or left versus center, whatever you want to call. It's not ideological in that way. It's, do you view the current moment as a crisis or not? And we should be looking for members who do view this as a crisis. So in Michigan, for instance, you've got Haley Stevens, who is Schumer's candidate in the Michigan Senate race. You've got. In Minnesota, you've got Angie Craig, who is Chuck Schumer's candidate in the Senate race. Do we want more Schumer lieutenants in the Senate, or do we want folks who represent a different point of view? I'm of the opinion that we need a lot more fighters and fewer lieutenants who just back up Schumer.
- [12:49]
Lee McGowan
Right, Absolutely. I mean, you were mentioning Chris Murphy of one of those people, and I just saw him talking right after this capitulation, and he was saying, look, I understand why my colleagues would want to end this shutdown. You know, we all want to end the shutdown. But he said, I also understood that this moment required sacrifice. And while he wished that there was a path to save democracy that didn't include pain, that didn't include sacrifice, a path that didn't involve hard times or people suffering. And he understood that he was saying this from a position of power where he wasn't on snap and he wasn't not having his check delivered. But democracies die. When the opposition tries to pretend everything is normal, when the opposition tries to bring everything back to normal, that we simply cannot allow a leader like we have to weaponize our compassion in a way that drags us into consent, that ultimately it gives more power to the president when we do that. Like, it's a tough thing to do, to stand strong, but with a Leader like Trump, we only embolden him when we fold 1000%.
- [13:55]
Ezra Levin
So the way I'm thinking about this is we are backing out from the midterm elections and asking ourselves, what are we going to do when the regime does what we believe it intends to do, which is steal the election results after massive turnout? How are we going to push back against this? And we know from the experts in authoritarianism, major national elections, those are inflection points for when democracy either reasserts itself or the authoritarian regime consolidates power. We need a unified opposition party come the midterms next year so that when they try to pull. Whatever shenanigans they try to pull, it is not. Let's just. Let's just move slowly. Let's keep our. Keep the temperature down. We don't need to fight back with every single tool we have. No, it needs to be boom. You go within 24 hours. You are fighting to protect those election results. So how do we do that? How do we build a kind of party that does fight back in that moment? Well, one answer is that in primaries, we demand fighters, and before the general election, we demand the kind of leadership that is oriented in the same way. How do you do that? You don't have the least popular political figure in the country leading your party. There is not a voter for Democratic Senate in Texas or Michigan or Minnesota or Maine or North Carolina or Georgia who is saying to themselves, boy, I really would have voted for the Democrat, but they got rid of Chuck Schumer, and now I'm not so sure. No, that person doesn't exist. That person doesn't exist. We need to rehabilitate the Democratic brand. We cannot afford to have a Democratic brand that is less popular than the Republican Party. At the time that they're implementing a fascist agenda, we should be saying, no, this. This is not the failed Democratic Party. This isn't the Democratic Party that you've lost faith in. This is a new party with new leadership. You can do that by changing Chuck Schumer. You can also do that by getting new leaders through the primary.
- [15:49]
Lee McGowan
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- [20:52]
Ezra Levin
We should be saying, no, this. This is not the failed Democratic Party. This isn't the Democratic Party that you've lost faith in. This is a new party with new leadership. You can do that by changing Chuck Schumer. You can also do that by getting new leaders through the primary process.
- [21:06]
Lee McGowan
Yeah. The way sort of Mamdani inspired New York. This sort of new way of doing things. Things. Right. I think ultimately it comes down then to it being a different time. Right. Like, we don't need to insult old leaders. It's a different era. It's different politics. We are dealing with an authoritarian regime. These people have absolutely no problem rolling back our rights. They are literally building concentration camps and rounding up people in the streets, which means that we require representatives who will fight like people's lives depend on it, because they do. If we see that in the midterms in 2026, we know they're going to pretend that they won when they didn't win, or they're going to say, this is not, you know, we're going to overturn this election. We need people already in place that are like, absolutely not. Not on my watch. And not people that are going to put on a purple tie and be like, well, welcome to the White House. We can't be doing that anymore. That ultimately, someone like Chuck Schumer, who I think is a very nice man with good intentions and did well in the Senate for many years, is kind of either unwilling or unable to meet this moment. Like, he's played this game for so long. He's playing a game that he knows, but that is no longer the game being played. I feel like he's a boxer in a UFC ring and he's not prepared for the game that is at hand.
- [22:23]
Ezra Levin
So I. I think part of it is Chuck Schumer, who I actually, personally, I think he's a funny guy. I think he does a good job building the way Chuck leads the Senate is not. He's not going out and creating the strategy all by himself. He is reflective of a broader Democratic Senate caucus. So if you. Somebody like AOC or Bernie Sanders, nobody who you would question their progressive bonafides or anything, you see them asked about Chuck Schumer, and they say, sure, you know, Chuck is Chuck. The problem is actually the broader caucus. And so we should be talking about how do we elect leaders who would push leadership. So when you look at a Maine Senate racer or a Michigan or a Texas or a Minnesota Senate race, you should be asking yourself, well, who's going to push the Democratic Party in the direction we want it to go? Because we should have more of those types of people in. And you can. You can have that position without saying so. And so individual leader is the problem. We need to have a broader orientation towards the party and rebuilding into a fighting machine that can win that. That's the opportunity, I believe, in front of us in these primaries. And that's what we intend to work with indivisible group leaders in these states to try to achieve.
- [23:32]
Lee McGowan
If Chuck is the leader and he was seemingly upset that these seven members plus Angus King, who was an independent, voted this way, the problem is, is that he, as you're saying, is a reflection of his caucus. Like, if he can't keep those people in line for whatever reason, he can no longer withhold their cabinet positions, he can no longer withhold their committees. You know, whatever it is, if he can't keep his people together, then maybe he's not the person we need right now when we really need to be a united front. Because. Because I know you see it as failed Democratic leadership, and I know that there's a reason Indivisible is launching this largest primary program, and it's a way to seek and support different kinds of people as leadership. You've said that we need to turn the page on the era of cowardice. We have to nominate Democratic leaders who have the stomach for this fight. And we can no longer endure waffling leadership when so much is on the line. So I think that that's a great plan. So your plan is to invest in how many primary races or to go out and do how many primary races?
- [24:39]
Ezra Levin
This is a great question because I think there's some conception of, like, there are hundreds of Democrats. Are you going to primary all of them? And you don't need to. You really don't need to. We have a lot of good fighters and we have other Democrats who are representing swing districts or states. And you don't want to make their lives harder. I don't want to endanger their reelection chances is. But we've got a handful of Democratic senators who are up for reelection. We've got a couple of open seats in safe states this year coming up. We can engage in those to change the entire trajectory of the party. So I'm not talking hundreds, I'm not even talking dozens. I'm Talking somewhere between 10 and 20 primaries is what I would expect indivisible groups to heavily get involved in around the country. But that even that few number of House and Senate primaries is enough to have shake things up in Washington and shake things up in the caucus. Because winning those contested primaries sent a massive message to everybody else in Washington that this is a new day, that rank and file Democrats are not settling for the same old, same old politics and they're looking for more. Now, I will say indivisible. I'm not the leader of the indivisible movement. We lead the national movement organization. But the way we get involved in primaries is we work with our local groups on the ground. So we go to the Michigan indivisible groups or the Maine indivisible groups or the Maryland indivisible groups or the Minnesota indivisible groups and we say, hey, are you invested in this race? Do you want to get involved? How are you thinking about this and how can we work together? If so, I think that's what's got to happen. If you're waiting for some big national organization or some big donor network to change the Democratic Party, I have bad news for you. It's not going to change, or at least it's not going to change in the direction you want to. So if you would like the Democratic Party to be better, I don't think it's enough to just say, I'm disappointed. It's not enough just to call out Chuck Schumer and say, I don't think he's a good leader. If we want a better Democratic Party, we, all of us, we have to do the work to demand that party. And that means getting involved in these primaries. That means getting involved with the attention we give candidates, with the votes we give candidates, with the money we give candidates. This is all going to play out in the coming few months. And so the question is really, do we take advantage of this opportunity? I really hope folks around the country, especially in these key districts and states, do.
- [26:56]
Lee McGowan
Yeah. It's like you're saying at first you were very, very angry and now you're feeling excited because ultimately we have a chance here to change the trajectory of the party, to stop being the party. What we're apologizing all the time for being Democrats and we feel proud of being Democrats, that we have fighters again, that we have people that won't capitulate, that won't roll over, that aren't called weak, you know, and spineless. I think like I said earlier, I think primaries are great for democracy. I think moving beyond the old way of doing things is good for America. I think we need leaders that will meet this moment. I mean, the country is very clearly on the line. Civil and human rights are on the line. And then we look at like, even the future, like with the debate on AI. I mean, AI is coming up. We need young people who understand technology. We need more people who understand medicine when we. So many problems coming with the people that are in charge of those departments. So we need, you know, we need actual leaders right now, not career politicians because we're. We're dealing with literal sadists at the wheel. And I feel like the shutdown itself, it was 40 days, the shutdown made it really clear to me anyway that Republicans are absolutely willing to strip away healthcare and food assistance from Americans, that they are not interested in negotiating with an opposition party. That our president thinks he is a king and he is surrounded himself with psychopaths and imbeciles who will tell him what he wants to hear while they all drive our country into the ground. And I feel like a lot of people are saying this, that there is this chasm right now between Democratic voters and Democratic leadership, that, that we are not being represented. We are saying we are outraged with ice in our street. We are outraged that they are building concentration camps. We are outraged that our healthcare is on the line. And we don't need people who aren't outraged. We need people who are at same level. We are and are going to fight at that level.
- [28:50]
Ezra Levin
Leah, I don't even know how to add to that. That was exactly. That's everything that I would have said, but more succinctly and more powerfully, I just underline that point. Underline the point you made. This regime went to court to fight a legal decision that they can't starve children. They went to court to starve American children, to withhold nutritional assistance. And these are the bond villains that we are dealing with. They do not respond to strongly worded letters. They do not respond to outreach arms for bipartisan compromise. They respond to power. They respond to power. When you confront them and you show you've got the votes, you've got the people, that's when they respond. And we need an orientation from Democratic leadership that understands that. I do think the thing that gives me hope is this is where rank and file Dems are. Rank and file Dems want a party that fights, and that's how you win primaries. So I am cautiously optimistic that we're going to see change in this party. I think it is on the table. It's for us to take up and do. But it's the first time in a while that I've seen an opportunity to rebuild the party and build it up into the kind of party we need to not just push back against the Trump regime, but to build for it in the future and inspire people that maybe politics does offer something maybe they can believe again. Again, this is what Mandani did so brilliantly. He didn't just run against the regime. That was part of it. He said, I'm going to fight back against Trump's invasion in New York City. But he also offered a vision for the future that caused people to think maybe the Democratic Party can deliver for us, and it is indeed worth showing up. That is how we're going to ultimately build the kind of majorities we need, not just to defeat Trump, which I think we're going to do, but to build something in the future. So Trump, too, whatever that looks like. Like, doesn't come on our doorstep again.
- [30:40]
Lee McGowan
Yeah, exactly. I mean, I think that the election, whether it's the one from New York or across the country, really showed us the future of the Democratic Party, should we choose to accept it. Right. A future where we can win everywhere, that we actually show up and fight. Olivia Juliana, who is in a group I am in that's called chorus, said that the last election, the 2025 election that we just had, wasn't a wage. It was the first shock before it that she went on to say that the Democratic Party doesn't need one star. It needs a spectrum, a tent that is big enough for everyone. And she pointed out that trying to force a single formula onto this party is a mistake, because our diversity isn't a liability or something that needs to be managed or downplayed. It's literally the reason that we'll win, that we need leadership. We need leaders who will speak to the people, not just in one state or in one way or with one style, because what worked in Virginia for the election didn't look the same as what worked in Georgia or in Texas or in New York. But Democrats won in all of those places because ultimately, the voters don't really care about political branding. Right. They care about their lives. They care about affordability. They care about stability, and they want leaders who aren't gonna work against that. Right. Olivia said that there's. There's no one right way to be a Democrat. And the strength of our party is that we're a coalition and not a cult. And I think that is so important as we move forward, that you can be a Democrat in West Virginia, and that won't look the same as a Democrat in New York. Nor should it. And that is our strength. Today's episode is brought to you by Oneskin. 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You can be a Democrat in West Virginia and that won't look the same as a Democrat in New York. Nor should it. And that is our strength.
- [37:45]
Ezra Levin
Couldn't have said it better either there.
- [37:47]
Lee McGowan
Well, that's all Olivia.
- [37:48]
Ezra Levin
Olivia's great spot on. I do think it's noteworthy there was a pretty big ideological difference between the folks who won in New York City or versus Virginia versus New Jersey versus the California proposition versus Mississippi be and that's okay. The through line that I saw in all of those election was we're not going along with this regime. We're going to fight back. We might disagree on health care policy or economic policy, education policy, but a unifying vision right now among the Democrats is we're not going to be invading and occupying your city. We're not going to be terrorizing your communities. We are actually focused on your economic interest. We actually want to low your prices. And these guys who are controlling the White House and controlling the Congress right now, they don't get it. They're distracted by a lot of bullshit that we are fighting back against to help you. That was a through and the specifics were different, based on New York City or Virginia or New Jersey or elsewhere. But that basic through line we saw everywhere and I think he can win big majorities with that basic message.
- [38:51]
Lee McGowan
I agree. I agree that the overall concept is that we believe in the Constitution, in freedom, in human rights, in civil rights and constitutional rights, in the rule of law, these kind of things that the Trump administration is just ripping down like it's the east wing of the White House. I think what we can't have is throwback politicians, weak politicians, capitulating sellout type politicians. First of all, that's not at all inspiring. It will not win and I would Say to any Democrat who feels like the Democratic senators who signed the cross didn't sell us out, that they were. You know, I know that there's Democratic senators that signed that that are like, I did it for a reason, because the people in my state need to have the airports open, whatever it was. If that's the case, then you should have explained that. We might have understood your reasoning. But how you did it quietly on a Sunday afternoon was appalling. You blindsided your voters, you blindsided our party. You took the wind right out of our sails. We were here standing firm, and you were supposed to be standing with us. And then you were like, just kidding, we're selling out. Right. The whole thing, to me, proves the point you're making, that there's a number of these leaders who are not meant for this moment and this time that we live in right now. I mean, it's easy to communicate with the voters. You can communicate with the voters so easily. If you had a reason for doing what you're doing, you didn't communicate it. You ignored us, you undermined our momentum, and then you didn't even bother to try and explain it. That's just terrible leadership. And I know every single person that signed onto that CR isn't up for reelection in 26, and I don't think that was done. I think that was strategic. They need to understand that it's not just like, you could have a million. I could hear from Tim Kaine, here's the reasons that I did it. This is why I did it, and it could be totally justified. But if you haven't explained that to the people before you did it, then what you did was cut us off at the knees. And no one appreciates that.
- [40:42]
Ezra Levin
You just brought up a very important strategic point, too, that all of the seven Democrats, plus one independent, Angus King, are either retiring or not up for reelection next year. That is quite intentional. So we were working closely with a lot of Democrats on, on the House side and the Senate side. And what we heard from them was, look, it wasn't just these eight. It was a larger group of senators, many of whom were scared to come out publicly and vote for this because they knew there would be blowback and they were up for real election. They didn't want that blowback. Which is why, again, I'm mad at the aid. I think the aid should get some blowback. I think that's important. But we should focus on what can we actually do, what can we do right now? Because somebody like Tim Kaine, he's not up for reelection next year. He doesn't have to face the voters for another three years. So what can we do as folks who are organizing and voting and engaging in politics in this moment? Well, focus on those who are up for reelection. So you got a Mark Warner, Tim Kaine's fellow senator from Virginia. He's up for reelection next year. Has he gone on the record and said, I think we knew need new Senate leadership? No, he hasn't. You got John Hickenlooper in Colorado. Has he gone on the record he's up for reelection? No, he hasn't. You've got Jack Reed in Rhode Island. Has he gone on the record? No. You've got Chris Coons in Delaware. Has he gone the record? No, he hasn't. These are all senators. These are all white guys who are old in safe blue states who are currently not saying that we need new Senate leadership. We should get them to go on the record and call for new leadership or we should be supporting leaders who do call for that leadership. That's, that's not everything. To be clear. That's not everything. But it is an easy way to identify who's going to back up status quo and who's going to fight for something new. And I think we should be taking that lens to all of the primaries next year, especially those primaries in safe blue states, states and safe blue districts who, where we know we're ultimately going to win, there's going to be a Democrat who represents them. The question is what kind of Democrat.
- [42:36]
Lee McGowan
Right. So who's going to be backing up the status quo or who's going to be challenging it? Right.
- [42:43]
Ezra Levin
Yeah. Simple as that.
- [42:45]
Lee McGowan
Yeah. And that's pretty easy to understand because what we have is status quo is not working. I mean, I feel like if Indivisible has a message or a mission right now, it's that if a Democratic candidate isn't willing to leave it all on the field, then they need to get out of the way or be pushed out of the way. And I should point out that Indivisible is not alone in saying this. Move on is saying this. Run for something is saying this. Like we just said, we just watched Zora Mandami win New York without any Democratic establishment help. In fact, with most of the party leadership working against him, we can't have an opposition party that isn't willing to oppose. We can't have an opposition party that's in bed with the same people that are helping Trump consolidate power, the same corporations, the same billionaires, the Same countries. Those people shouldn't really have a place in the opposition party of today. I mean, I look around the nation right now and I'm sure everyone else is doing the same. Like our cities are being invaded by our own military at the request of our own president. Our neighbors are being kidnapped. People cannot afford food or health care. There is a giant international sex trafficking ring being covered up. And any Democrat that wants to act like it's business as usual is only helping this machine of corruption and abuse. And we the voters, we the people with the actual power. And you can feel that as exciting, the actual power have a chance to change that with things like primaries and pressuring leadership. And even if we end up with the same people, we can give them a lot more pushback to do the things that we want rather than the things they are used to doing.
- [44:29]
Ezra Levin
The thing that will move them is people pressure. That's the only thing that has moved them over the course of the last year. Recall six or seven months ago when we had the first funding bill fight and Schumer surrendered that fight. There was no shutdown. There was no shutdown at all. They never even got to the negotiating table. Hardly. They immediately, immediately surrendered. Six months later, they actually held firm for a few weeks. And the thing that changed in between the six months ago and the the last several weeks was we had hands off in April, we had no kings one in June, we had no kings two in October. They saw people were upset that the Democrats weren't fighting back and they started pushing back. One reason to get engaged in primaries is to actually elect new leaders. Another reason to get engaged in primaries is to convince the existing leaders that they got to get in line, otherwise their political careers might be endangered. Both of those things are wins. So to your the point that you made at the very beginning of all this, primaries are healthy. We should not treat them as some kind of scary thing. We should not treat leaders who are currently in office as owning those seats. If we want to have a strong party, we got to engage at every step in the process. And one of those steps is primaries. We shouldn't just gloss over that. And I think ultimately where we're going to end up is a Democratic Party that is stronger, that is more respected, and is better able to govern. In January of 2027, when we take the House, we take the Senate, and the subpoenas start flying, the hearings start happening, and all this stuff that we see coming out of this regime without any sort of oversight, that ends. If we build the kind of party that demands that it ends. And again, that's what we're trying to do in these primaries.
- [46:08]
Lee McGowan
That's exactly what we're trying to do. I mean, you have said Indivisible has put out there that we need to be fighting for a democratic party that will actually fight for us. And we need real primaries this season to send a message to leadership about what we're looking for, that we're looking for fighters, that we're looking for people willing to defend our communities and our rights and our democracy from the threat of this regime. And I think that at this point, we can't settle for any last. And this is actually a very exciting moment for us if we choose to see it as that. Now, if people agree with you and they want to help and they want to get involved, what do you want them to do? What is your call to action for the people listening?
- [46:46]
Ezra Levin
Look, I think the biggest thing to do is don't just sign on to some letter. Don't just donate to some organization, us or anybody else get involved in primaries. This is going to be a fight that is powered by. By people all around the country. So maybe you live in a competitive Senate state or in a competitive house race. Look and see who's in front of you, who are the optional leaders. And if you don't, you should be looking around the country and saying, that's a candidate I agree with. I would love that to be the next senator. That person could be the next senator from Minnesota or Maine or from Michigan. I'm going to adopt them. I'm not from those states, but I'm going to adopt them as my candidates at this cycle. I'm going to give them a lot of attention. I'm going to donate a few dollars to them. I'm going to notify, notify my friends and family members about this, But I want that to be the kind of person who leads in our party. So I'm going to get behind them. And if you need help identifying where Those opportunities are, indivisible2026.org we're going to be working with local indivisible groups around the country to provide the grassroots power that we need in order to elect these leaders. And we need all the help we can get. Primarily, though, I want people doing stuff, not just clicking links, not just sending in money, but doing real things to help us build the party we need. That's how we're gonna win.
- [48:02]
Lee McGowan
And at the very least, we can make the establishment members nervous, force them to rethink their strategies and their positions on things, because no elected position should be a given. You represent the people or you lose your position as a representative of the people. I think this is a pretty clear line that we can all stand behind. Behind.
- [48:19]
Ezra Levin
I hope so. And I believe where we're headed is a wholesale rejection of this regime. I believe what we're seeing from this regime is them lashing out. Not from a position of strength, not because they know they've got the goods or they believe they've got the people on their side. The reason why they're invading American cities, the reason why they're zip tying children and dragging them out of apartment buildings in Chicago, the reason why they're threatening our election infrastructure is because they're freaking terrified of us. They're terrified of organized people, power that is going to push back and take away the power that they're trying to concentrate. And the way we best do that is to build a party that confronts that power head on.
- [48:55]
Lee McGowan
Yeah. Terrified of the people. Let's keep them that way. Thank you so much for coming back to talk to us today, Ezra. I'm so grateful. I looped you in like a month ago and then I got you in again today. So thank you so much for talking to us and thank you for doing this, and we will look forward to the primaries coming up.
- [49:11]
Ezra Levin
Excellent. Lei talk again soon.
- [49:14]
Lee McGowan
So that was Indivisible Z reminding us that if we want the Democratic Party to be better, it's up to all of us to do the work to change it, to challenge the status quo and build a fighting machine strong enough to take on this regime. We need to care about primaries, ours or someone else's, so we can choose leaders who are actually ready to meet the moment. Are we going to continue to lose our country because we are only back establishment candidates, or are we ready to support the fighters who arrive from the outside? We sit at an inflection point, and it's time for all of us to assert ourselves. We need a party that can not only win elections, but leaders who will shake things up once they get there. The game has changed, and we need players who understand the new rules. I want to thank Ezra for joining us today and you for caring enough about democracy to be here. Now. Go check out in indivisible2026.org or get involved in a primary that you care about. It is about time that we all demanded better. Until next week, PG Out. Would you like to get this podcast ad free delivered directly to your inbox along with my kitchen rants, then please consider becoming a member of Politics Girl Premium by going to politicsgirl.com and signing up. If you're already a premium member of this podcast, thank you for your support. And if you're not a member, please consider becoming a patron of my work. Mainstream news is only giving you a version of billionaire backed propaganda at this point, so if you want real knowledge, it's essential to support those of us out here still bringing it to you. There is a link to sign up in the bio of this episode, but also@politicsgirl.com and as always, please like and share this podcast so we can grow our audience because the more people who have access to this kind of information, the better. As always, thank you so much for your time and support. The Politics Girl Podcast is written and performed by me, Lee McGowan, and produced and edited by Happy Warrior Entertainment. All rights reserved.