Where are Our Leaders? A Conversation with Governor Josh Shapiro

Summary

The PoliticsGirl Podcast – Summary

Episode Title: Where are Our Leaders? A Conversation with Governor Josh Shapiro
Air Date: February 10, 2026
Host: Leigh McGowan, Meidas Media Network
Guest: Governor Josh Shapiro, Pennsylvania

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Episode Overview

Leigh McGowan sits down with Pennsylvania Governor Josh Shapiro during a turbulent time for American democracy, exploring the critical role of state leadership in the face of federal chaos, cruelty, and corruption. The conversation focuses on the erosion of rights, the responsibilities of local leaders, the threat of political violence, and the urgent need for civic engagement.

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Key Themes & Discussion Points

1. The Power of State Leadership

• With the federal government increasingly lawless and divisive, McGowan highlights a shift in focus to state leaders who offer tangible contrasts in governing style and intent.
• Shapiro underscores the daily “chaos, cruelty and corruption in D.C.,” particularly from the Trump administration, and positions governors as a vital stabilizing force.
  “...governors are actually doing their jobs every day, helping people, making their lives a little bit better, solving problems and doing so with a level of calm. I think there is a clear contrast.” (Josh Shapiro, 02:51)

2. Democracy: Use It or Lose It

• Both discuss the dangers of complacency and the necessity of active civic participation.
• Shapiro reminds listeners:
  “This is a moment where people need to feel their power and exercise it.” (Josh Shapiro, 08:09)
• McGowan likens American democracy to a long-term marriage that needs continual effort, warning against authoritarian temptation.

3. Rights in Reversal—A Generational Betrayal

• McGowan, reflecting on her upbringing during the Roe era, expresses grief over the rollback of women’s, civil, and workers’ rights.
• Shapiro relates personally, as the parent of a daughter with fewer rights than when she was born:
  “Our daughter Sophia is 24 years old and this notion that she was born into this world with more rights than she has today over her own body, that doesn't sit well with me.” (Josh Shapiro, 07:22)
• Both stress the unfinished nature of America’s founding documents and the need for continual progress.

4. Diversity, Inclusion, and the Bad Bunny Moment

• They discuss the Super Bowl halftime’s impact as a reflection of pluralism and inclusive patriotism, sharply contrasting the administration’s isolationism.
• Shapiro points to the symbolic legacy of William Penn, who sought a society grounded in freedom for all:
  “He wanted to build a place that was literally rooted in this idea of free expression, free religion and free elections.” (Josh Shapiro, 10:33)

5. Federal Overreach and Rights Violations

• Concern is raised over the deployment of federal agents in blue states and the threat this poses to civil rights.
• Shapiro denounces the administration’s actions and the idea that federal officials like ICE agents are above the law: “It is absolutely not true…JD Vance is full of shit, as he typically is.” (Josh Shapiro, 21:01)

6. State-Level Solidarity and Strategy

• Blue state governors are actively coordinating, supporting each other during federal aggression and in legal battles.
• “We do talk all the time. We compare notes; where we can be joined in something, we do...” (Josh Shapiro, 19:51)

7. Government as a Force for Good

• Shapiro and McGowan agree on the fundamental idea that public service is about improving lives, not harming constituents.
• “I've never understood these people that run for office in order to use government to do bad things for people.” (Josh Shapiro, 23:37)

8. Action-Oriented Leadership

• Shapiro emphasizes “showing your work” and the need to “get stuff done” (GSD) for ordinary citizens rather than just playing politics.

• Concrete accomplishments discussed:

  • Gun violence reduced by 42% in Pennsylvania
  • Taxes cut seven times
  • Fighting persistently for a $15 minimum wage despite a split legislature

• On the importance of state legislative elections:
  “I could make an argument that people's daily lives are impacted more every day by their state legislatures and their governors.” (Josh Shapiro, 34:01)

9. Election Integrity and the Threat to Democracy

• Shapiro details past and ongoing efforts by federal officials to undermine election security in Pennsylvania.
• He outlines his refusal to hand over protected voter data and assures listeners of robust state-level defenses:
  “In Pennsylvania, through our 67 counties and our Department of State, we run the elections. Donald Trump and the federal government do not.” (Josh Shapiro, 35:00)

10. Rising Political Violence and the Need for Moral Leadership

• Shapiro, himself a target of political violence, calls for moral clarity from all leaders:
  “Political violence doesn't belong to one party or the other. And the targets, sadly, are both parties.” (Josh Shapiro, 38:07)
• He urges leaders to denounce violence unequivocally, restore civil engagement, and remind politicians that government exists to solve problems.

11. Call to Action: Engage and Vote

• McGowan and Shapiro end by rallying listeners not to fall into despair or retreat, but to organize, engage, and vote.
• “This is not a moment to pull the covers up and turn off the TV. This is a moment to engage, and people have real power in this country.” (Josh Shapiro, 42:44)
• He frames the next election as a “referendum on the chaos, the cruelty, and the corruption in Washington, D.C.” and reasserts the power of collective civic action.

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Notable Quotes & Timestamps

• On Civic Engagement:
  “This is a moment with all the chaos and all the cruelty and all the corruption—a lot of people just want to turn it off … But it ain’t going to make these problems go away. You got to listen and we’ve got to engage, and we’ve got to do something about it.”
  —Josh Shapiro (03:08)

• On America’s Backsliding:
  “Our country was supposed to continue to evolve, but it has really been backsliding since the 70s when we stopped making changes to the Constitution.”
  —Leigh McGowan (06:36)

• On Federal Overreach:
  “The idea that we have a federal government who’s hell bent on wreaking havoc in our communities… is mind boggling. Yet we are. This is the place where we find ourselves in.”
  —Josh Shapiro (18:07)

• On ICE Immunity:
  “It is absolutely not true… JD Vance is full of shit, as he typically is.”
  —Josh Shapiro (21:01)

• On Showing Work:
  “My general intention every day is to just, like, advance the ball for somebody, just like, make it a little bit better, solve the problem for their kids...”
  —Josh Shapiro (30:07)

• On the Next Election:
  “I think it needs to be a national referendum … Make this a referendum on the chaos, the cruelty and the corruption in Washington, D.C., and I think if people do that, they’re going to realize they’ve got great power.”
  —Josh Shapiro (44:00)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Opening call to action on voting: [00:00]
• Contrast with federal leadership: [02:51]
• Parenting and generational rights: [04:45]
• Super Bowl halftime discussion & inclusion: [09:47–12:18]
• Foreign policy and isolationism: [12:53–13:34]
• ICE, federal forces, and law: [17:26–22:20]
• State governors’ solidarity: [19:51]
• Government’s purpose: [23:37]
• GSD/governing by action: [29:38–31:43]
• Raising the minimum wage & legislative realities: [31:43–33:35]
• Election integrity & federal pressure: [35:00]
• Political violence & leadership: [38:07–42:24]
• Final motivational call to action: [42:44–44:30]

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Conclusion

Governor Josh Shapiro emphasizes that despite national setbacks and the politics of cruelty, state leaders and everyday citizens can—and must—reclaim the promise of American democracy. Listeners are invited to see themselves as agents for change, to stay engaged in the struggle for liberty and justice, and to make the upcoming election a referendum on failed federal leadership.

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“This is a moment to engage, and people have real power in this country.”
—Governor Josh Shapiro, [42:44]

Transcript

[Josh Shapiro]

The greatest power we all have as Americans is the power to vote. And I do think people need to turn out. I think it needs to be a national referendum. Don't just turn out. If you're in a swing district or a swing state like mine, turn out, send a clear message that you do not like what's going on. Make this a referendum on the chaos, the cruelty and the corruption in Washington, D.C. and I think if people do that, they, they're going to realize they've got great power and they can change the trajectory of this great country.

[Lee McGowan]

Hello and welcome to the Politics Girl Podcast. I'm your host, Lee McGowan. Let's get into it. So it is hard to be a moral, ethical, law abiding American right now and not feel traumatized. I think a lot of us felt the boos directed at our vice president at the opening of the Olympics this weekend. NBC might have edited out the crowd's response to American leadership, but the Internet is forever. And the world clearly saw what most of us do, that we are being ruled by leaders without a care for their own people or the people of the world. A collection of bullies, sycophants and sadists brutalizing their own people at home while changing the world order internationally. And while that Olympic crowd was kind to our athletes, the sentiment did not extend to our government representatives, which is why today I'm speaking with an American representative who does have the respect of the people he governs. A leader who is not only looking out for the people of his state, but the state of his country. As the federal government becomes more lawless, I believe it is increasingly important to stand behind strong state leadership. So today, the leader I'm going to speak to is Pennsylvania's Governor, Josh Shapiro. This is the guy who, after someone tried to burn his house down with him and his family in it, he. He came out and said, violence has no place in our society, regardless of what motivates it. This is a man who understands the moment we're in and is unafraid to meet it. So without further ado, please welcome my guest, Democratic Governor of the state of Pennsylvania, Josh Shapiro.

[Josh Shapiro]

Welcome, Governor Lee, it's awesome to be with you. Thanks for having me.

[Lee McGowan]

Oh, thanks for coming. We've been trying to get this on the books for so long, and I'm so pleased you could join us because as I was saying in the introduction, as the Americans watch, our federal government just not only fail to look out for us in everything from health care to education, but actively work against the American People with the violence we're seeing in our streets from ICE and the abandonment of our allies overseas. Yeah, like, it's really important that we look to our state leaders right now. You know, I think you guys must be feeling a particular responsibility to show an alternative type of leadership, because I know we are looking to you guys not just to represent the people of your state, but to be a visible contrast to what we're seeing federally.

[Josh Shapiro]

Yeah, I think we're seeing so much chaos in D.C. so much chaos coming from the Trump administration tied together with cruelty and corruption, that then when you have the opportunity to see how governors are actually doing their jobs every day, helping people, making their lives a little bit better, solving problems and doing so with a level of calm, I think there is a clear contrast. I have to say I'm grateful for this conversation. I told my wife at breakfast this morning, we got the kids off to school, and we were getting ready to run about our days, and she's like, what are you up to? And I was telling her about my meetings, and I mentioned I was coming on with you. She goes, I love her. And I listen to her. And there's a broader point here about listening that I want to say, because it goes back to your. The heart of your question. This is a moment with, like, all the chaos and all the cruelty and all the corruption. A lot of people just want to turn it off, where they want to pull the covers up and they want to, like, ignore all this. And there are people like you every day going out and forcing folks to say, well, hold on, you can turn it off, but it ain't going to make these problems go away. You got to listen, and we've got to engage, and we've got to do something about it. And that's what you're doing. And that's why I'm excited for this conversation. And my wife's excited for it, too.

[Lee McGowan]

Well, hi to your wife, first of all, high school sweetheart, as far as I understand, you guys have, Right. Four kids. And my son is dating his high school sweetheart right now. And I keep thinking, oh, the Shapiro's got married. Like, this could be it, you know, Warn your son.

[Josh Shapiro]

It's gonna happen. It's gonna happen. How old's your son?

[Lee McGowan]

He's turning 18 this month. He is turning 18 this month. So, you know, all of this that I do is for him. You know, like, ultimately, I started this project because I brought a child into this world, and he deserves far better than this. Your children deserve far better. My all of Our kids do. They deserve better in leadership, they deserve better in repercussions, and they deserve better from a country that promised them freedom and justice and liberty.

[Josh Shapiro]

Amen. They, they deserve better both in terms of what they see every day. Right. When we shouldn't as parents be embarrassed by the leader of our country when it comes to parenting our kids. And second, I mean, you and I are just getting to know each other here, but it's. I bet we share the same value, which is we want to leave this place better for our kids than the way we found it. I mean, that is sort of like fundamentally, I think what every parent wants. And that feels very at risk right now. And so we each have to do our part and make sure your 18 year old son, we're blessed with four children, that our kids grow up in a place where they've got promise and possibility greater than what you and I inherited.

[Lee McGowan]

Yeah, exactly. And I think you and I, I mean, I look at this world as a woman. I obviously, I was born in 75, so, you know, Roe was around my whole life, right. So I was told I could be anything I wanted to be, that I could lean in, that I can have a career and be a mother and do all of this. And you know, realistically, as you grow up, you realize that's not always possible. At the same time, yes, I could have everything, but if I wanted to be this kind of mother, I had to take these steps. Those kind of things that everyone in the society realizes. I know you've talked a lot about being the kind of parent that's like, I'm working, Governor. But also I want to be there for my kids. And how do I balance that? It's not something that men often do. But I feel like all we're all out here now watching everything get reversed. Women's rights get reversed, workers rights get reversed, civil rights get reversed. And we. You know, I was looking at your book, which I find so fascinating. You wrote a book this year called Where We Keep the Light Stories from a Life of Service. And you made this argument that the brilliance of our founders is that they left our founding documents incomplete, that future generations are supposed to evolve with the times. I made the same argument in my book two years ago. Like, yeah, we often forget that our country was supposed to continue to evolve, but it has really been backsliding since the 70s when we stopped making changes to the Constitution. I should remind people that the last time we made a real change to the Constitution that actually meant something was in 1971, when we changed the voting age from 21 to 18. Now we haven't done anything since then. We haven't even passed the Equal Rights Amendment. Like women still don't have equal rights in this country. And now we have this group of people who are trying to reverse engineer generations of progress. Right. Who were never happy with workers rights or civil rights. And their long term goal is actually being realized right now and we have to be able to not only realize that that's happening, but figure out what our long term goal is, to get back to a place that we really can respect ourselves.

[Josh Shapiro]

Yeah, no, you, you just summed it up exactly right. And, and I did write about that in Where We Keep the Light. And I, I think about it forget just as a governor, I, I, I think about it as a dad in a very practical way. Right. Our daughter Sophia is 24 years old and this notion that she was born into this world with more rights than she has today over her own body, that doesn't sit well with me. And, and I think it is against the arc of America if you think about the last 250 years. I'm right now in the city of Philadelphia where it all started. I argue, by the way, with Maura Healey, who I love, the governor of Massachusetts. We're good friends. She claims it all started there and we just did the paperwork. I think it started here. But you can have us both on your podcast sometime.

[Lee McGowan]

You guys have the bell? You have the bell.

[Josh Shapiro]

Yeah. But the story of America has been that in every generation, yeah, we got beat up a little bit, we got knocked back a little bit, but we always made progress. And we have to ask ourselves, are we in the midst of a chapter right now with Dobbs and with the evisceration of more of our rights, in which case we're going to be able to make forward progress and end this chapter better than when we started. Or is this a turning point? Is this an inflection point? I think the answer to that has to revolve around people like you using your platform is real power. People like me making Trump standing up for people's rights and freedoms, and most importantly, ordinary folks rising up, demanding more and seeking justice and trying to leave this place better than the way we found it. This is a, this is a scary moment, but it's also a moment where people need to feel their power and exercise it.

[Lee McGowan]

Yeah. I mean, you know, if we stopped evolving, it's because I think as a people, we kind of stopped doing the hard work of Making real change, right? And a lot of that was just like we thought, oh well, we've got a democracy. And I often compare America and American democracy to a couple in a long term marriage, right? Like, you know, they'll always be there, like American democracy, we're the top of the world. You can't take it for granted because America clearly got a wandering eye for authoritarianism and that's where we are now. And so we really have to put work back into the relationship and back into the business of democracy and protecting our vote and protecting our rights and protecting our people. And I think you saw a lot of that reflected yesterday. Even were recording on a Monday. But yesterday at the super bowl reflected in, you know, how many people were represented in that halftime show.

[Josh Shapiro]

Beautiful.

[Lee McGowan]

It was absolutely beautiful. And this idea that hate is bigger than love. And then there's just this group of people, honestly a small group of people who feel the need to separate themselves from the rest of us and say, this is just for these people who speak English and are white and speak like this. And you think, well, actually that's not the majority of us and it's not the majority of what people want. And you can keep telling yourself that, but it's, it's a lie. And the more of us that actually work for the truth, the better off we're going to be.

[Josh Shapiro]

Without question. And look, I think the attacks on Bad Bunny, the by the way, it came even before the super bowl. Like they wanted to have this fight even before we saw his brilliant performance. And by the way, shout out to all those stage managers that put that together. That was unbelievable.

[Lee McGowan]

It was unbelievable.

[Josh Shapiro]

Bad Bunny, but those people were unbelievable last night. But you know, this is what we've seen from this administration in Washington, this creation of others, scapegoating people, attacking children, you know, putting people down because of what they look like, where they come from, who they love, who they pray to or choose not to pray to. And that makes us all less safe. And I would argue that is not what the founders intended. I'm going to nerd out on you for a quick second if I may, but just a few miles from here, literally along the Delaware river Behind me, in 1682, William Penn arrived here at the shores of what is now Pennsylvania. Why do I bring him up? Because he tried to build a place that would be welcoming for all. Literally. The ship he arrived on was called welcome. And he wanted to build a place that was literally rooted in this idea of free expression, free religion and free elections. Now look, Penn Never imagined a Jewish governor or my lieutenant governor as a black lieutenant governor. First one in Pennsylvania history. But you'd have to hope he'd be proud of that. And you'd have to hope that he'd look down on the leader of our country right now who wants to separate people out, who wants to diminish certain people because they don't look a certain way. I think we're better than that in America. And to bring it back to last night, I think that that halftime show showed that. And by the way, you don't have to speak Spanish or understand every word of his song to understand the beauty of it, to understand how inclusive it was and how it was centered around this notion of love, not hatred and division. I thought that was just a beautiful thing, and I thought it kind of encapsulated where the majority of Americans are, even if that's not where our leader is right now.

[Lee McGowan]

I completely agree. And as someone who was born in Canada and chose America as my nation, you know, I'm. I'm an immigrant, and I chose to be here. And it really reflected that. To have all of the Americas represented with the different flags, everything from Latin America to South America to Central America to North America, where we are, including Canada, I thought was really exceptional because we've spent a long time with American patriotism. Being isolationist and being US first and greatest country in the world stuff.

[Josh Shapiro]

Yes.

[Lee McGowan]

And this felt more like unity in a way that I think we could all get behind. Well, maybe not that small little group.

[Josh Shapiro]

No. And I couldn't agree more. And by the way, it speaks to this president's approach on foreign policy, which is super isolationist, which is hemispheric. Right. They're only focused on one little sliver of the world and kind of allowing China, Russia, other bad actors in other parts of the world to do as. As they wish. I think that it really speaks to their overall approach, which is limiting, it's isolating. It makes America less safe, less prosperous, less free. And to attack our fellow Americans, whether it's some famous person like Bad Bunny or someone whose name you don't know, but he looks a certain way and you attack him, that makes us all worse off. And I think this president doesn't understand any of that.

[Lee McGowan]

Yeah, I don't think he understands it too. And I think that he doesn't understand how scary America has become for so many people, be it women, people of color, immigrants, trans people, gay people. We don't fit and we don't belong. And we are afraid in our own country. And I think that is such a shame. And I think most people feel that shame. This episode of the Politics Girl podcast is brought to you by Wild Grain Wild Grain is the first baked from frozen subscription box for sourdough breads, artisanal pastries and fresh pastas. All of the Items bake in 25 minutes or less and unlike store bought options, Wild Grain only uses simple, simple ingredients you can actually pronounce and a slow fermentation process that is easier on your stomach and richer in nutrients and antioxidants. No preservatives, no shortcuts. Wild Grain boxes are fully customizable. There is a variety box, a gluten free box, a vegan box, and a new protein box. I love to make and eat chili in the winter, but chili is so much better if you pair it with warm sourdough that you just baked yourself. Wild Grain is perfect for easy dinners, cozy weekend mornings with their pastries, or even the perfect grilled cheese sandwich on fresh, fresh bread. There is literally nothing like having an artisanal bakery in your freezer to chase away the winter chill. Now is the best time to stay in and enjoy comforting homemade meals with wild grain, which is why I highly recommend giving it a try. Right now, Wild Grain is offering our listeners $30 off your first box plus Croissants for Life when you go to wildgrain.com politicsclub girl and start your subscription today. That's $30 off your first box and free croissants for life when you go to wildgrain.com politicsgirl deleteme makes it easy, quick and safe to remove your personal data online at a time when surveillance and data breaches are common enough to make everyone vulnerable. Sadly, it is easier than ever to find people's personal information online. More nefarious actors are seeking our addresses, our phone numbers, family members, member's information, and when they get a hold of it, it can have major consequences in the real world. With Deleteme, you can protect your personal privacy or the privacy of your business, so you are less likely to be exploited. I am someone who's very active online and I have to tell you, we have used Deleteme for a while now and there's a reason that New York Times Wirecutter has named Deleteme their top pick for data removal services. Sadly, data brokers who steal and sell our information are just an unfortunate side effect of modern online life. So take control of your data and keep your private life private by signing up for Delete Me now at a special discount for our listeners. Get 20% off your Delete Me plan when you go to JoinDeleteMe.com PoliticsGirl and use the promo code PoliticsGirl at checkout. The only way to get 20% off is to go to join DeleteMe.com PoliticsGirl and enter the code Politics Politics Girl at checkout. That's JoinDeleteMe.com PoliticsGirl code PoliticsGirl we don't fit and we don't belong and we are afraid in our own country. And I think that is such a shame. And I think most people feel that shame.

[Josh Shapiro]

I think you're right. And it's not just how we feel here, it's how we are viewed in the world. You mentioned you're from Canada. I was recently elected by a bunch of governors along the border with Canada and the premiers in Canada to lead a by country, you know, commission involving the Great Lakes and trade tourism. The reason I raise it is in my remarks there, I commented about the sovereignty of Canada, that I don't view Canada as a 51st state and that I respect Canadians. And you know, by the way, these are like obvious statements that you'd think two years ago no one would ever take note of. But the reaction from Canadians when I said that in Quebec recently was really, really interesting and speaks to how attacked they feel by this president and how in turn America is getting more and more isolated.

[Lee McGowan]

Well, yeah, it's. I mean, they feel attacked. The people of America feel attacked. This isn't how a leader is supposed to lead. I mean, I heard you say in Colbert lately that it's a sad day in America when governors need to prepare for an onslaught of federal troops coming into their states to undermine the freedoms and constitutional rights of their own citizens. And I think that's what we're seeing with ICE in Minneapolis and all of Minnesota going into Maine. Now, I know Philadelphia is on the list where you are. I'm in la, so we are definitely on the list. New York. And this is our own government threatening us with our own taxpayer funded militia.

[Josh Shapiro]

Right. We're paying for that.

[Lee McGowan]

I know. We'll take some health care, thanks.

[Josh Shapiro]

Right. Typically a governor would prepare for, God forbid, a horrific weather incident that claimed lives or God forbid, a shooting or you know, things like that that in many ways are emergencies out of our control. But you've got to respond to it, you got to protect people. And you know, my fundamental responsibility is to keep people safe. Here in Pennsylvania, the idea that we have a federal government who's hell Bent on wreaking havoc in our communities, making us less safe, eroding that trust that we've built up between law enforcement, the community that's by the way, allowed us to reduce crime by 12% across Pennsylvania. The idea that we have to prepare for that is mind boggling. Yet we are, this is the place where we find ourselves in. And you mentioned Minneapolis. I mean, what's happening in Minneapolis and beyond, all throughout Minnesota, you know, really is a compromise mission. The mission's got to be terminated. It's violating people's constitutional rights. It's. It's eroding people's freedoms. It's making people less safe, and it's extremely dangerous. And it's not just the killing of Mr. Preddy and Ms. Good. As horrific as it was, it's the constant violation of people's rights every day.

[Lee McGowan]

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, do blue state governors, because we're talking about governor leadership, like do blue state governors in general, do you guys communicate with each other to kind of come up with a group plan? I had former Republican operative Steve Schmidt on the show a couple of weeks ago and he was saying, I wish there was a group of blue state governors that would talk as a united front to say like, we stand as a unit against this administration. And I was like, oh yeah, I kind of would love to see that too because, you know, there's power in numbers. And I think a lot of us would like to see somebody go head to head with this administration that really felt like it was a fair fight.

[Josh Shapiro]

We do talk all the time. We compare notes where we can be joined in something. We do, whether it's a statement, a lawsuit, an action. And we recognize that when one of our brothers or sisters is kind of under attack that we're going to take a second chair but be there for them. When we're attacked, someone will be there for us. And where we've got to stand together as a wall. Right. To stand up and defend people. We do that together. We get along well. And I think we all, we may have different policy views or what have you. We have the same values that, you know, we value our freedom, we cherish our democracy, we love this country. And we will not allow our citizens in our states to be defined by the chaos and the cruelty and the corruption that's coming out of Washington every day.

[Lee McGowan]

Yeah, I mean, you know, it's sort of like a modern UN but for American blue states, like, I kind of feel like we could have a little Article 5 action happening, like come for one of us come for all of us. I mean, I heard this administration saying that ICE agents obviously have complete and total immunity. Our Vice President was saying that, which is absurd. You were an Attorney General before you were the governor. It's not true. Right? These guys do not function above the law.

[Josh Shapiro]

It is absolutely not true. And JD Vance is full of shit, as he typically is. And I'll just tell you, you didn't ask this, but I'll volunteer my thoughts on this. As a former chief law enforcement officer of the Commonwealth, former prosecutor, as I look at just like, what is publicly available, I don't have any insight or any secret information here. I think you could make out a very, very clear case, at least in Mr. Predding's killing of voluntary manslaughter. And I think you could also make out a case that the federal government has been engaged in a conspiracy to, you know, be able to block access to the crime scene, block access to justice by not participating in the investigation process. So I think you could charge people there, and they certainly do not have blanket immunity.

[Lee McGowan]

No, I. I mean, I think most Americans concern is we know it's against the law. They know it's against the law. They do it anyway, and they're like, what are you going to do about it? And I think that's. Most of us feel a little like that's why we look to people like you, like, well, what are you guys going to do about it? Because we're just out here, you know, watching it happen. We're the ones being pulled out of our cars. And I think that's why people are looking to the strong governors right now for leadership, because we don't know what to do if they're just going to break the law. And we know they're breaking the law, and they know they're breaking the law. So what comes next?

[Josh Shapiro]

We're preparing, Lee, and we have some very specific steps that we're prepared to take should what we're seeing in Minneapolis try to unfold here in Pennsylvania, anywhere in Pennsylvania, I hope it doesn't happen. And, you know, we're taking steps to try and ensure that it doesn't happen. But we'll be prepared. Look, if the President of the United States, if the Secretary of Defense, if the Secretary, Department of Homeland Security, want to impose their will on our state, there are some things we could do to slow them down, maybe stop them, but they may be able to. To do that, in which case we'll have to respond in a secondary step as well. Yeah, we, you know, Again, the idea that we even have to think about this is crazy. But we're going to do everything we can to protect our citizens. That's my job.

[Lee McGowan]

Yeah, that is your job. And I think that that's great. I mean, you have done many roles in state leadership. You were state congress, you were county commissioner, you were the attorney general, obviously, and now you're the governor. And you clearly believe, as I do, that government can and should be a force for good. I often talk about, you know, the detrimental language that Reagan used to say that the nine most terrifying words in the English language were, I am from the government and I'm here to help because I always feel like if you are in the government and you're not there to help your own citizens, then what are you doing there? Because the job itself is public service.

[Josh Shapiro]

Yeah. I've never understood these people that run for office in order to use government to do bad things for people. And Lee, I'm not suggesting we should agree on healthcare policy or tax policy or whatever. We should have those fights. Those are healthy fights. And typically you end up with some sort of compromise that's good for the majority of people and that's the way the system works. But to have these people who enter public life with designs on making other people's lives worse.

[Lee McGowan]

Worse.

[Josh Shapiro]

When you think about this for a minute, President United States and his enablers in Congress literally voted for a new law. Trump signed it to kick 510,000 Pennsylvanians off of their health care. Again, we may have different ideas on what the best health care system is and all that. We should argue that we should duke that out, Duke it out proverbially, not literally. And the idea that, though they would be proud of the fact that they've knocked a half million Pennsylvanians off of health care speaks to their character or lack thereof. So, yeah, I'm someone who, like you, believes government can be a force for good in people's lives, even if we differ on the policy. But this notion that you're making people's lives worse, as Trump and his enablers are doing, is to me an anathema to everything I believe in.

[Lee McGowan]

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[Josh Shapiro]

But this notion that you're making people's lives worse as Trump and his enablers are doing, is to me an anathema to everything I believe in.

[Lee McGowan]

Yeah, same with me. I mean, that's one of the things I really like about what you're doing in Pennsylvania because I think a lot of us have given up on the Republican Party helping regular Americans. But I think that's why sometimes people are so down on the Democratic Party and they have a low approval rating because people still believe the Democrats are supposed to be looking out for them, even if they believe the Republicans have stopped doing it. And they're disappointed when they don't see the fight that they want from their party, when they don't see a strong opposition to what they're seeing. And I think there's a reason that you have an over 60% approval rating in your state, but National Dems are sitting at like 30% because you seem to be an action based leader. I know, I've heard you say that you function on the idea of G GSD getting.

[Josh Shapiro]

There you go. Yeah. And I think that's what we say it. Every day.

[Lee McGowan]

Yeah, but. But that's it. Because politicians have become known for being mostly interested in what government can do for them rather than what they can do for the people. And I think people are sick of politicians saying a lot, but doing very little.

[Josh Shapiro]

I think it's. Look, my general thesis or whatever, that's an annoying word. But my, my.

[Lee McGowan]

My general therapist would say, your intention. What is your intention?

[Josh Shapiro]

My general intention every day is to just, like, advance the ball for somebody, just like, make it a little bit better, solve the problem for their kids, childcare, give their kid a better quality education, make sure the street's a little bit safer. And I don't expect everybody to agree with my ideas on how to do that, but I want them to see the effect of me sitting behind this desk every day. If I'm sitting behind this desk and you got a job, that's a good thing. If I'm sitting behind this desk and you continue to have access to health care, that's a good thing. And so I view every day through that prism. How can I deliver something concrete for somebody? And I do think. And by the way, I don't think this is true of just Democrats. I think it's Democrats, Republicans, Independents. What they're desperate for are just folks who can get stuff done for them, who can show their work and not just talk all day, but actually make meaningful progress for them. And that's what I endeavor to do every day. Whether someone agrees with me or not, that's what I endeavor to do. Do every day.

[Lee McGowan]

Yeah, I like the concept of showing your work. Like I was looking at how you've worked when you've been in office. And it's things like gun violence. You've got gun violence down by 42% since you took office. You've cut taxes, I think, seven times since, you know. Seven times. Yeah, and then. But you keep calling to raise the minimum wage every year since you've been governor. Now, what's going on with that? Because I think it's almost impossible with a fully Republican legislature to get those sort of things done. So, like, what do you do when you know that the minimum wage has to be higher? You keep asking for it, but you can't get it because the people you're working with refuse to do it.

[Josh Shapiro]

Yeah, it's kind of wild. There's only two governors like this in the country. It used to be just me. I've got this divided legislature, so I've got a Senate led by Republicans by two seats and a House led by Democrats by one seat. You want to talk about, like, razor thin majorities in. In both chambers. And so, look, we've got a lot done. Historic funding for public education, public safety, economic development. We've got the only growing economy in the northeastern part of the United States. We cut taxes seven times, put a lot of money back in people's pockets, and then, you know, that stuff we've done on a bipartisan basis, then you bump into something like raising the minimum wage. We are stuck at a paltry $7.25 an hour. I've been trying to raise.

[Lee McGowan]

It's not enough.

[Josh Shapiro]

It's no longer enough. I've been trying to get it to at least $15 an hour. And so this is a situation where I've got the Democratic House. They passed it, I think, twice at this point, and I've got a Republican Senate that won't do it. So what I do is put as much public pressure as I can on there and make clear when we're in the back rooms negotiating how important this is to me and see if I might find a way to give them something in order for us to get something done like this, that is really, really important for people. You. You want to help people out, put money in their pockets. I made this argument that if you raise the minimum wage to $15 an hour, 61,000 Pennsylvanians who make below 15 bucks an hour, if you just pay them $15 or more, you'll save $300 million in our Medicaid budget. So I tried to appeal to the Republicans, say, even if you don't want to do this out of the goodness of your own heart because it's the right thing to do, maybe you want to curtail some entitlement spending. This is a way for you to. So I try and make arguments that appeal to where their heads are and see if we can get it done. I'm going to keep trying, but this.

[Lee McGowan]

Is also where the people come in. Right. So when you think about what you're doing in an election, it's not just electing your governor, it's taking a look at those two seats, you know, that could switch over to Democrats and you could get a higher minimum wage. It comes down to what we choose in every level of government, not just the highest level of government. You know, I think the bottom line is we need representatives at every level who understand people are struggling and will actually make change. Should they be given the power?

[Josh Shapiro]

Absolutely. And I could make an argument. I mean, this is no disrespect to any member of Congress, I could make an argument that people's daily lives are impacted more every day by their state legislatures and their governors. Again, no disrespect to anyone who's, who's working hard and doing the right thing in D.C. and so to me, electing those, picking up those two state Senate seats and holding on to our House, that's going to allow me to do things like raising the minimum wage and helping more people.

[Lee McGowan]

Yeah. And you put your money where your mouth is. You're like, look, I've tried it. Every single time you give me two more seats, look what I'll be able to do for you. That's a huge difference. You'll get it done. And like, look, you and I aren't going to talk about midterms or your race or 2026, because you're speaking to me as a governor, not a candidate. But with that being said, are you concerned as the leader of your state with the safety of our elections? Because that's what everyone's talking about right now are the steps that this current administration is taking to make them less free and fair. So those things cannot happen, so we cannot make real change, so we cannot hold this administration accountable.

[Josh Shapiro]

I am very, very concerned. And I want to be clear. I'm not an alarmist on this. Let me explain the history and, and, and where we are today. And I'm grateful you raised this, because I think this is an unbelievably important issue. Back in 2020, when Trump lost here in Pennsylvania. Remember, he won in Pennsylvania in 2016. He lost in 2020. I was the Attorney General at the time, and he and his allies sued me 43 different times, 43 different times to try and overturn or throw out the votes of Pennsylvanians. He went 0 and 43. I went 43 and, oh, and we had a free and fair, safe and secure election. So I have seen this guy and his allies do everything in their power to try and undermine the rule of law and take away people's votes. And so now fast forward to our midterms. Why wouldn't he try to do the same thing? He's basically told us that. Now, here's the good news. We, in Pennsylvania, through our 67 counties and our Department of State, we run the elections. Donald Trump and the federal government do not. And in fact, when the federal government, about a month, maybe two months ago, at this point, demanded that I turn over all of the private personal information for all voters in Pennsylvania, I said no, and they sued me. But I'm going to protect the voters of this commonwealth. And let me be clear. Voters who vote for me and voters who don't vote for me. Voters who are Democrats, voters who are Republicans, voters who are independent. The law requires us to protect that information. And the law requires us to have free and fair, safe and secure elections in each of our 67 counties. And guess what, Lee, Sometimes Democrats win, sometimes Republicans win. And that means the system's working. And so we're going to continue to protect the sanctity of our elections. But make no mistake, I am not being an alarmist here. Donald Trump and his allies are gonna do everything in their power to try and undermine it.

[Lee McGowan]

Yeah. Oh, you just have to look around the country at the gerrymandering in the red states, the SAVE act they're trying to pass in Congress, which is essentially a poll tax and a way to get women not to vote. You know, there's attack on mail in voting, the removal of dropboxes around the country, the changing of the rules of the USPS about when they can be actually counted. And now you've got everyone from Steve Bannon to Donald Trump himself saying that they're gonna have ice cream surrounding polling stations to intimidate voters. So, you know, this is an actual thing that we have to be concerned about. And it's. And you know, you're not the only governor who's being sued for state voter rolls. You know what I mean? He's. I think he's got 20 active lawsuits right now trying to steal voting rolls and voting information. Just like he marched into Georgia last week and took all their voting information. So this is something we have to take really seriously. You're not the only public official that has been the victim of actual political violence. Right. Are you concerned about the political violence in this country? Because between Trump's rhetoric and Stephen Miller's demonization and othering of people, you know, I think we are looking at more and more political violence in this country. And you're someone that has dealt with it firsthand.

[Josh Shapiro]

You know, political violence has sadly always been part of our culture. It's always been part of our society and our politics. But it is clear that over the last couple, three, four years, the amount of political violence has just skyrocketed. And it sometimes targets people on the left and it sometimes targets people on the right. Hell, just in my state, within the last year or so, Donald Trump was targeted in Butler and my family and I were targeted in Harrisburg. One Republican, one Democrat. You've seen Charlie Kirk murdered in Utah. And Melissa Hortman, murdered in Minneapolis. You see people walking around with the scars of political violence. Gabby Giffords, Congresswoman Gabby Giffords, and Congressman Steve Scalise, one Democrat, one Republican. Why do I say that? Because political violence doesn't belong to one party or the other. And the targets, sadly, are both parties. There was a guy 72 hours ago here in Pennsylvania that was just arrested for making terroristic threats against me and my family. He's in jail. Right. Second time in less than a year someone's in jail for threatening me and my family. I think what we need right now is for all leaders, starting with the President, including me and others, to speak and act with moral clarity and to condemn this. When the President of the United States stands up after Erica Kirk's eulogy and says he doesn't possess the capacity to respect others, to allow for others to be acknowledged in their moments of pain, to mention Charlie Kirk, but not mention Melissa Hortman, and to pretend he doesn't know who she was, notwithstanding the proximities of their killings in time, that suggests to me that he's not someone who can speak in actual moral clarity. The good news is there's a number of Democrats and Republicans, my colleague, Governor Spencer Cox of Utah, who have the ability to do that. So I think, number one, it starts with leaders condemning all violence and acting with moral clarity. Second, I think we have to be serious as a society about getting back to the place where we argue about our differences, but we don't threaten violence over our differences. Third, I think we've got to show that government kind of comes back to the first part of our conversation. The government can solve problems for people. Now, I want to be really clear. You know, there are a number of people who get so frustrated because government's not making their lives better or solving their problems, that that puts them in a place where they're angry. Now, I want to be really clear that doesn't ever condone political violence, nor should it be an excuse for political violence. But when you've got a government that's not working, when you've got politicians who are stoking folks up, when you've got people then who've got other issues in their lives, be it mental health, being preyed upon on social media, being preyed upon through these nihilistic chat, you know, chat groups that encourage this kind of violence, it all ends up fitting together. And so I think it starts with leaders saying, no, this is not okay. No matter how much I disagree with politician X. You should never, ever, ever threaten him or her or their family. Starts there. And then we've got to have a government that is focusing on problem solving and trying to address the people that are really hurting and angry, despondent and capable of this kind of violence in our communities.

[Lee McGowan]

Yeah. And quite frankly, I would love to stop being blamed for all political violence. Being on the left, I'm like, again, you're blaming us again. It's exhausting. And I think people are hurt by their own country doing that to them.

[Josh Shapiro]

And people see right. They see right through it. Again. You know, it should not be hard to acknowledge the killing of Melissa Hortman in Minneapolis, in Minnesota. Shouldn't be hard to do that. And by the way, it doesn't take away anything from Charlie Kirk's murder or vice versa. We should be able to hold both of those truths at the same time, that what happened to both of them is wrong. What happened to Donald Trump in a field in Butler was wrong. What happened to me and my family and the governor's residence in Harrisburg is wrong. None of it is. Okay. It shouldn't be hard to say that.

[Lee McGowan]

Yeah. And it shouldn't be hard to lead from that position. I want to thank you so much for joining us today, Governor. Please tell the people listening and who might be feeling demoralized or distraught right now what you think we should be focusing on before you go, because I know you just did the State of the State address in Pennsylvania. What did you tell your own people at this moment in history?

[Josh Shapiro]

That this is not a moment to pull the covers up and turn off the tv. This is a moment to engage, and people have real power in this country. I think the brilliance of our founders is that they left the power to the people and they left the work really incompletely. They left it to successive generations. And this is a moment that's going to call on all of us to step up. You know, Lee, I told you at the beginning, I'm a big fan of you and your show. You decided one day you had something to say and you picked up a microphone and you started to say it. People listen. And as a result of listening, they're doing right. Listen and do. You're encouraging people to be actively engaged in their society in a constructive, nonviolent way. And I think that that is so important. You found your power. Not everybody's going to be able to work up the courage to create a great podcast and sit here, you know, with a microphone and. And talk as you do. But there's other ways that they can use their power in their community, on a school board, in their community group. They don't even have to have an elected position. They just have to care about this community and be engaged in it. And I get the worry. And at the end of the day, the greatest power we all have as Americans is the power to vote. And I do think people need to turn out. I think it needs to be a national referendum. Don't just turn out. If you're in a swing district or a swing state like mine, turn out and send a clear message that you do not like what's going on. Make this a referendum on the chaos, the cruelty and the corruption in Washington D.C. and I think if people do that, they're going to realize they've got great power and they can change the trajectory of this great country.

[Lee McGowan]

Amen to that. Thank you so much Governor Shapiro. Thank you for joining us today.

[Josh Shapiro]

Thanks for awesome to be with you, continued success. I appreciate you.

[Lee McGowan]

So that was Governor Josh Shapiro reminding us that government should be a force for good and the next election won't be about party loyalty but a referendum on the chaos and cruelty and corruption that we are seeing right now that this isn't a moment to pull the covers over your head or check out, but to re engage because it really is the people who have the power that this is the time for all of us to come out and show that we believe, as Bad Bunny said at the super bowl, that love really is greater than hate and we want and deserve better than what our federal government is offering. I want to thank Governor Shapiro for joining us today and you for caring enough about democracy to be here until next week. PG End before you go, I don't know if you've noticed but left wing and progressive creators like myself who share the truth and facts are getting drowned out by right wing propaganda and lies. The mainstream media is barely hanging on and it is becoming harder and harder to find anything that isn't some sort of billionaire backed propaganda at this point. So if you respect what I'm trying to do here, if you learn something from my podcast and rants, if you would like to get this podcast ad free delivered directly to your inbox along with my kitchen rants and TV appearances, then please consider becoming a member of the Politics Community Premium family by going to politicsgirl.com and signing up. If you are already a Politics Girl Premium member, thank you so much for your support. And if you're not, please consider becoming a patron of my work. If you want real knowledge in a world of lies, it's essential to support those of us out here still trying to bring them to you. There is a link to sign up in the bio of this episode, but [e-mail] and as always, please like and share this podcast so we can grow our audience, because the more people who have access to this kind of information, the better. As always, thank you for your time and support. The Politics Girl podcast is written and performed by me, Leigh McGowan and produced and edited by Happy Warrior Entertainment. All rights reserved.