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- [00:01]
Jordy Visser
This episode is brought to you by Google Chrome. You think you know a browser, but Gemini and Chrome?
- [00:06]
Interviewer/Host
That's new.
- [00:07]
Jordy Visser
It can help you with practically anything on the web, like restoring a vintage
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Interviewer/Host
motorcycle from a 50 page restoration block.
- [00:13]
Jordy Visser
Or finally break down that long article
- [00:14]
Interviewer/Host
you've had open for weeks. Gemini and Chrome is here for it, ready to make anything online make sense. There's no place like Chrome.
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Jordy Visser
Check responses set up required compatibility and availability various 18
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Paris Hilton
hey babes, it's Paris Hilton. So I was checking my points balance in the Hilton Honors app the other day and yeah, I've got about a billion, which feels excessive even for me. Just kidding. You can never have too many Hilton Honors points and I want to do something iconic this summer, so I'm giving away all my Paris points. Just find somewhere you've always wanted to stay, then go to my socials or Hilton's and tell me about it. Just make sure you're a Hilton Honors member and I might be sending you Paris points. Because when you want points that make your summer even hotter, it matters where you stay.
- [00:56]
Jordy Visser
Here's the reality. We are in still the second or third inning of what will be a long build out. Artificial intelligence is the most important thing to happen to the human race, from the basis of making things cost less and solving some of the world's problems that have been with us for a long time. Turning longevity into something that's parabolic, turning the market into something that's parabolic. Most importantly, allowing democratization of education, democratization of people, to have as much information as the people. I started at the beginning to that say this always ends badly and this has been the thing. And so what's going on guys?
- [01:31]
Sponsor/Advertisement Voice
Today we got a great conversation with Jordy Visser. He's an extremely successful Macro hedge fund manager and now he's here to explain
- [01:38]
Interviewer/Host
to us what's going on with the
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Sponsor/Advertisement Voice
AI trade, which names he likes, which ones he doesn't. Is he worried about the big memory shortage? Is the AI trade over or not?
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Interviewer/Host
What's it mean for your portfolio?
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Sponsor/Advertisement Voice
We talk about the debasement, capitulation and
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Interviewer/Host
what's going on with Bitcoin, Gold, Silver,
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Sponsor/Advertisement Voice
and then of course we get into SpaceX and what's going on with anthropic
- [01:55]
Interviewer/Host
and Claude and OpenAI and Gemini and Google and many other names. This conversation is going all over the place, but it is ultimately Jordy and I trying to figure out what the heck's going on in the world and what does it mean for his portfolio. My portfolio and yours. Here's my latest conversation with Jordy Visser. All right, Jordy, the AI trade seems like it's over. Everything's going down. People are very upset. Should we just pack it up and go home? What exactly is going on here?
- [02:19]
Jordy Visser
Yeah, it was a freak out week ending. Or at least Micron is changing the tone. It's very funny spending your time and your life talking to people about a particular trade. And the people that I've known in the industry a long time, like myself, so people like me, they just know that number one, things like this don't end well in their head. Even though that may not be the case in their head, they know it. So they believe that all retail traders and all people that have been riding momentum will eventually get blown up. I see the leverage, I see all of this stuff. So this week when SK Hynix in particular in the Korean market was effectively limit down every single like overnight podcast, everything in X was, it's here. This is going to be a crash. You're going to watch what happens once Micron's done. Everything will go down. And because I have a thematic portfolio with A hundred names, 100 names is a lot of AI names. It crosses from chemicals to industrials to drug companies to semiconductor and a whole bunch more. So it was down big on one day and everyone was freaking out and people reached out. So on Tuesday I did a video and I basically just said to people, here's the reality. We are in still the second or third inning of what will be a long buildout. And I'm going to say it to everyone who listens to us every week. Artificial intelligence is the most important thing to happen to the human race. From the basis of making things cost less and solving some of the world's problems that have been with us for a long time. Turning longevity into something that's parabolic, turning the market into something that's parabolic. Most importantly, allowing democratization of education, democratization of people to have as much information as the people. I started at the beginning that say this always ends badly. And this has been the thing. And so Micron comes out, obviously the AI trade is not over. I will do a lot on the video this weekend to just show the quotes. They've got long term commitments from so many different people now. Their supply and demand will be out of balance until 2028. That doesn't mean that's definitely going to happen. But the reality is the AI portfolio and the way that things moved. I'm going to say it again. And again, the world changed in October of last year, November of last year, when Opus 4.5 came out. We've gone from 4 point to 4.6 and 4.7 to 4.0 to mythos to fable 5 to the government basically taking control of it. And GPT 5.5 is out. The AI trade is doing excellent. And the second half of the year, you will continue to see strength.
- [05:08]
Interviewer/Host
So there are. I'm going to call it closing the gap. There are two things that I have heard this past week that I need to come and talk to you about. You got to tell me whether these make sense or not. The first one let's start with is Micron. So my understanding is that Microns last quarter that they just reported they did more in revenue than Nvidia did when Nvidia was a $4 billion company.
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Jordy Visser
Four trillion, $4 trillion company.
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Interviewer/Host
Sorry, the numbers are getting so big here. BT, what's the difference? A $4 trillion company today, Micron is not a $4 trillion company. And so is it as simple as just like that, gap closes and Micron's going to be a $4 trillion company?
- [05:48]
Jordy Visser
If it were only that easy. But I will say this. It will be very surprising if they don't get up to 2 trillion over the course of the next year. Here's the thing about it. And again, I love doing these weekly videos because there are certain things that just stand out. The one I did on Tuesday was meant to go through this concept that I'm really trying to do to help people, which is there's noise, which is. This is a bubble. So because the agentic world started, the amount of memory that was needed was far different than any time in history. And it was the gateway. So it was literally. And I, and I, I can. The only analogy I can use is we have a certain amount of food on the planet. We've always heard that we could run out of it, that prices could go up. You know what would cause it to really be in trouble and make the prices go up dramatically is if all of a sudden there was an extra 4 billion people on the planet tomorrow. That's what happened with memory. The amount of memory that is needed because of AI agents which need to think about the past and this and go through it and connect changed overnight. And we have another five to 10 years of this because humanoids need even more. Autonomous vehicles need even more, that is. And they talked about this. Micron talked about it on the earnings call. You can't have something without coming up with the correct analogy. So I just want hear it. If 4 billion people entered the planet today and we went up by 50%, the amount of people we wouldn't have enough, food prices would go up dramatically. So inflation doesn't always come from speculation and from money and all this stuff. Sometime it comes from, oh my God, we have to feed all of this 4 billion people. And in the case of digital agents, the food. I've said it before, and before it's compute. And compute is chips and energy.
- [07:37]
Interviewer/Host
So when you look at these kind of limiting factors, one thing that you've said to me is that maybe the pace we're growing, even though it feels like we've got a limitation to growth, maybe the right pace to be growing, what do you mean by that?
- [07:50]
Jordy Visser
And this is what I wanted to make sure people realize from the mid cycle slowdown. Because when you say something like mid cycle slowdown, everyone's like, should I get out? And the answer is no. You should just expect it to not be as easy. Micron's not going to be growing their earnings at the pace they did from the fourth quarter of last year to the second quarter of this year. When you look at the numbers and when I show you the income numbers, they are massive to change. They did more in the first two quarters of this year than I think the last 10 years combined. That's crazy. Is that going to continue? No, it's not. Will they grow? Yeah, but if you're only growing at 50% from 400%, that's the second derivative kicking in. You're slowing down. Yeah. So it's not a down trade, it's just a slowdown. So I think the this has mainly been because of price increases and because there's a bottleneck. They are spending money on capex to produce more. They just can't make enough anymore to satisfy all the demand that's there. So demand went up too fast. A lot of this is for future use. And so are we going to need all of them? No, but like I said, Humanoids are coming and there's other things coming. So if people doubt it, they're making a huge mistake. In no way, shape or form is Micron a short for traders who want to make it go from 1300 to 1100. Be my guest. I got out way too early. So you're talking to someone who didn't expect the stock to just continue to go like this. But part of the reason I got out is because Marvell, which is another memory play in a different way that Benefits from the fact that memory shortage is there. I like that. So the pace thing you're mentioning and what I say to people, Taiwan semi is preventing us from growing too fast. If we had enough memory right now, I think the capabilities would be going so fast that it would leave a lot of workers in the dust. So sometimes government's job is not to stop things from happening, it's to slow things. Sometimes the bottlenecks of the physical world actually end up being something good because it keeps things in check. And I just want to remind people for all the things we're Talking about in AI, the S&P 500 as of when I came in here with you is up less than 8% in the first half of the year. That number might sound. Okay, that is not a big number. For all of this bubble talk and enthusiasm, the hyperscalers are horrible. Like this month you've got record falls. I think Microsoft is having its worst month since 2008. The Nikkei is up 45% or 48%. The Kospi is up over 100%. Taiwan is up over 50%. So the US is actually not benefiting as much. And this is this benchmark arbitrage thing that I talked about, which is the receivers are getting most of the money. Well, the problem is in Taiwan and in Korea the receivers are higher weight in the index. Same thing in Japan. In the US the hyperscalers are the higher weight. That's why the index is having a hard time. That's why we do this show to talk about the things that are going. The slowing of the pace is actually a good thing because I think too fast would be worse for the worker world.
- [10:50]
Interviewer/Host
The other close the gap is intel and tsmc.
- [10:57]
Jordy Visser
Yeah, this is an interesting story. And again we've reached a point where people have to listen to. I think Scott Bessen had a speech at the. Was it at the New York Athletic Economic Club?
- [11:12]
Interviewer/Host
Okay.
- [11:13]
Jordy Visser
It's a really important speech for people to, to go read or just go through the transcript or upload it into an LLM. And the reason is because he talks about the strategic nature of AI. He talks about needing to have the industrial capacity that we've been in this place where we've been over consuming for a long period of time and now we need to be producing what we need and we cannot be dependent on the supply chains of the world. Now we learned this through the tariffs last year. One of the good things that the tariffs, tariffs did last year for everyone who just wants to be political is we learned that we're a little bit screwed on the infrastructure side of AI. We don't have the rare earths we need. There's a lot of things that we don't have everything of, and we need to build that capacity. Which is why intel fits in well with Taiwan semi, because if you would have listened to the conversation and when the government made a strategic investment into intel, they were basically saying, okay, we have to support this company because we need this. We need to invest in it. We need to have the CPUs. We can't have the foundry, the biggest, one of the biggest foundries in the world or one of the three biggest in the US and not be running at full throttle. We need a tariff. We need all of this. So Besson really talked about the fact that this is a strategic need. Now, in Micron's earnings call, the CEO specifically said, memory is a strategic asset. So whatever people's view is of AI, they think it's a bubble. The governments of the world are in a massive race for military dominance. For Mythos versus Deep Seek. Deep Seek just had a funding round. Only one investor got voting rights. That would be the Chinese government. So we're just in this thing of AI is a military asset and they're in there going through it. And you want to invest in the things that are going to build the AI. Maybe not as so much as the people that are going to monetize the model.
- [13:12]
Sponsor/Advertisement Voice
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- [14:08]
Interviewer/Host
the government just print trillion dollars and go hire all of the top AI scientists and just say sit here and beat the private companies?
- [14:22]
Jordy Visser
I honestly don't think anyone can catch up to what's going on. I think this has become something. Google had two very senior people leave this week. I don't know if I said it with you or if I said it on my YouTube, but I made a comment that a lot of people reached out on and I said, google's not a player in this anymore for me. Two months ago, yeah, two months ago I would say Claude was about 35% of my usage. ChatGPT was probably about 25, and then Google was probably about 20, and then Grok would be another one and Perplexity would be another. What has happened now is that Chachi PT and Claude are effectively 90% of my usage. The other three have become less important to me.
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Interviewer/Host
Why?
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Jordy Visser
Because Gemini, Gemini's model is nowhere near as good as ChatGPT 5.5 or Opus 4.8, plain and simple. They haven't released a new thing in a long time. They're behind, they're losing quality people. And I think part of the reason is because they have one disruption that those two companies don't have. Actually they have many. First of all, Google has about 200,000 employees. They're $3 trillion. Anthropic is what, 1.5 trillion? In the private market, they have less than 5,000 employees. So if you're a person who cares about working with the best models, if you care about working on the best things you've got, that Google has to work on Google Cloud, they have to make sure that workspace is working and all these other things. So they actually are distracted to some degree because they have to keep the revenue focused on these other products. And Anthropic and OpenAI are just trying to get enterprises to adopt. So I think we've reached a point that because of the belief of recursive self improvement, that if you are number three, which is where Gemini is, they're number three. Number three with open source, up with the other two is a very dangerous position. So I would never say go out and short Google for it to go down because they're cash rich, they're in everyone's life and they're not going anywhere. But they seem to be entering into the same problem or a different variety that Meta, Microsoft and even Amazon have been in for at least a while, which is these companies have not done well. Their multiples were high, they're over owned by everyone and they've kind of fallen into an Nvidia thing where Nvidia is going through multiple compression. Google is too. So Gemini is just not there for me and Nano Banana was the main reason and I didn't even put this into context. Did you use nanobanana?
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Interviewer/Host
I did.
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Jordy Visser
Okay.
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Sponsor/Advertisement Voice
And you?
- [17:12]
Interviewer/Host
Part of it was because of the cool name and then part of it was so for me, nanobanana, obviously the image generation was supposed to be like its best feature or whatever. I think out of habit I will still go sometimes to Gemini and use for image generation. But what I find is that ChatGPT has become far better. It is, at least in my mind it's a jump ball now, 5050 whether I go to Gemini or ChatGPT and I don't think I have a great heurist. So it's like Gemini definitely lost the pole position on image generation for me and so now they share it with ChatGPT.
- [17:48]
Jordy Visser
So I've said this before, Gemini is very medicinal to me. It's literally like medicine. It's very academic. I didn't like school so I never really liked going to Gemini. I don't like the way it feels. I use it as my fact checker. I used to use it for Nano Banana as well and I used to rave about nanobanana. But then when GPT 5.5 came out, that all changed and I find the images are faster and I find they're better in using them there. And so I don't know where Gemini is going to fit in. But if they don't get another model out soon, I would not be surprised to see more defections. And by the way, these were not minor people that left Google. Some of this is about science as well. And I think Demis Hassabis Nobel Prize winner, he's not Google, he's DeepMind. These were DeepMind people. It's a little bit worrisome to me that people are leaving and I'm sure they got paid a billion dollars to go to Anthropic. These guys have the money, they have the growth, they have the appeal at this point. And this is what happens when you're number three and there's open source models that have better models than you do.
- [18:56]
Interviewer/Host
I would love to know how these top people are getting recruited right now. Is it like super Russian spy, like see them at a coffee shop, slip them a note or is it like just send them a LinkedIn request? I mean, you know what I mean?
- [19:09]
Sponsor/Advertisement Voice
Because it's not like, hey, we're trying
- [19:10]
Interviewer/Host
to recruit a marketing associate. Right.
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Sponsor/Advertisement Voice
I mean we're talking about in some
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Interviewer/Host
cases this is a billion dollar compensation point and so we heard Zuck was personally reaching out to people or whatever. Okay, but like Xanthropic, like what's the game here? It would be fascinating to understand and
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Jordy Visser
I'm sure at some point we will. Especially if so I don't want people to think I, I don't know how OpenAI and Anthropic are going to be able to monetize every like I'm still very worried about the revenue situation relative to the capex. I think this is very challenging as a user in thinking about how this is going to work out for everyone. So I, I'm, I'm not so sure that the revenue growth for these companies is going as easy as what the charts suggest. I know everything's parabolic right now. I know the reasons why everyone jumped in. I know that token maxing helped them. But now I think everyone is looking at this going how do we reduce the cost? And I think everyone's going to figure out a way to reduce the cost quickly. And so there might be I called this a capex air pocket. I still believe for the next three to six months, even with the Micron news, it doesn't change the fact that the rate of change and the expectations on the positioning is going to go through a little bit of a shakeup for a while.
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Interviewer/Host
There was a article written about Anthropic this past week and I'm just going to read you a couple data points from it. Anthropic stickiness shows in three data points it's got a net dollar retention of over 500%. Nine of the Fortune 10 are customers and a sales cycle can sign two eight figure USD contracts in a single meeting. Okay, on valuation, the 2026 Series G was a $380 billion post money. But then if you fast forward to the Series H which was three months later, they went from $380 billion to $965 billion post money valuation. So you know approximately a 3x. But here was the kicker. Anthropic reportedly has turned cash flow positive with a free cash flow margin of 15 to 20% and a gross margin of 60 to 70%. Now I don't know if that's true or not, but if Anthropic is throwing off 15% free cash flow, growing at the pace that they are reportedly growing at the size guys doing 10, $20 billion of free cash flow already, they started what four years ago, five years ago, to do that. I only know if one company in the world has ever done this before, and that's Tether. But Tether isn't growing that much because they're growing, but it's just not at this rate like this. So you look at this and you say, is Anthropic undervalued
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Jordy Visser
based on the last six months? You can put whatever valuation you want. This is different than SpaceX. This is actually something where you can say, and I want to have.
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Sponsor/Advertisement Voice
Is that shots fired.
- [22:24]
Jordy Visser
Again, I'm not a value investor and I'm not here to go through it. But again, when I get asked the question and go, what do you think of SpaceX? And I give an answer, you don't believe the tam of space. And I go, okay, I don't understand in my head as much as I'm a, a futurist and I think about all the world. I don't understand how the money in the future fits into a world with Mars, with the moon. So at some point there's a cutoff for me where I'm not really sure what that means. And so in a public company, I just don't get it.
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Interviewer/Host
With Anthropic, that might be the point, Jordy.
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Jordy Visser
Yeah, and trust me, that's why I stick with the right now with the physical hardware sides.
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Interviewer/Host
Well, Anthropic, though, if you look at it, just say he's doing 20 billion. I don't like to do public math, but that's like 50 times free cash flow.
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Jordy Visser
Yep.
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Interviewer/Host
At the pace at which they're growing, they're adding, you know, they're growing 25, 30% month over month.
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Sponsor/Advertisement Voice
Like that doesn't seem crazy to me at all.
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Interviewer/Host
Actually, it feels like maybe this thing should be like $2 trillion.
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Jordy Visser
But again, if you keep extrapolating things into the future on this, you run into a problem as you get into AGI and you get into rsi, and that's the part like, I don't know what it all means when you get to that point. I just think people have to keep that in mind. Like taking the world of the past and saying, well, we're going to grow revenues. Okay, great, where's it coming from? And I can make the argument as to where it's coming from. And I know that for me as a power user, I pay 200amonth. I'm not getting charged for the tokens.
- [24:01]
Interviewer/Host
There's no way they're profitable on you?
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Jordy Visser
No, there is no way they're profitable on me. And I know that I'm not using the API and I'm not. And I'm avoiding OpenClaw for a lot of the work that I would need to do on. And I'm just using it in terms of paying the $200.
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Interviewer/Host
Do get throttled while you're using it on the 200. Not.
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Jordy Visser
I don't think I'm that like the
- [24:24]
Interviewer/Host
velocity isn't there, so I don't need to throttle you.
- [24:26]
Jordy Visser
I'm using it all day long. But it really is. I'm doing a lot of brainstorming and I'm filtering things in my head before I go in there and I'm trying to get answers quickly and I work through things. If people have gotten to know me, I can go a mile a minute speaking and I can pull things out of my head that have been sitting there for weeks. I can go back 10 years. I can remember something. I can do this with people very quickly. But with an LLM, it's very focused. It's like I have this thought, let's go through it. It gives me an answer. I go back and forth, back and forth, back and forth, back and forth. But if the questions are good and you're good at saying, don't give me a long winded answer, you actually cut down on your token usage dramatically. Now, when I'm building stuff and I'm going through it, that takes more time, That's a lot more code. But I think I'm succinct in what I want and I think I've already done the prep work on my own, so I haven't gotten to the point of loops. And this is what I wanted to say to you. And this is the part where I think the most important thing that's happening right now is this concept of loops.
- [25:30]
Interviewer/Host
And this is where agent loops or agentic loops.
- [25:32]
Jordy Visser
Yeah. So there's been a huge gap between the CEOs of companies loving AI and paying anthropic lots of money. And then the employees using it. There's been a huge gap. So the surveys all say the same, like, CEOs all love it and say it's going to change their business. Employees aren't so excited. Now, I'm not sure it's just because it's going to take their jobs. I actually think they don't know how to use it. Now, if you have 100 employees in a department and two of them are power users, meaning they love it and they're figuring ways to do it so people understand what loops are the agents are figuring stuff out on their own, but they do need the human context and they need to learn everything going on in the business. So if you're in a marketing area of Coca Cola and there's a hundred employees and two of them are using Claude in a really, really good way, and the agentic loops are being used by those two people, and the other 98 are doing something similar, then these people are training their replacements at this point. That's the thing that we're entering into this dangerous point. And this is where the job losses could come much faster. And that's where Anthropic's revenue gains to me are going to have to come from the total compensation. And everything that happens in this country is about $20 trillion a year if you can get rid of a bunch of employees. And right now, so people remember, we are not creating jobs. So yes, the last two months we created a couple hundred thousand or three hundred thousand. Most of them were in the health care side. But over the course of the last year, there's almost been no job creation. The reason that matters is because in the history of this market, the way that we got more nominal GDP was you get more employees every single year. And then in recessions, you don't hire people, you fire them and it goes down. We are growing rapidly without hiring people. So that means the profits are going into the companies because they're actually not firing people at this point. They're just not hiring if they get to the point that the loops are there. And this is why people need to pay attention. The agentic loops are not only important for the businesses, but they start to become important for the commerce side because it means people are learning how you're doing stuff on your computer. And then as a consumer, Alexa and Siri and all of those things that we haven't seen work yet, they're going to start to work as part of the next thing, which is the connection of agentic loops with agentic commerce.
- [27:54]
Interviewer/Host
Did you see the Claude tags?
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Jordy Visser
Yes. I was listening to a bunch of people talking about a bunch of podcasts.
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Interviewer/Host
I feel like that's going to end up being right along with this right of if you have a company and you have people who work remotely, you do not talk to them on the phone in person, maybe even in meetings a lot. It's literally Slack. There are certain people who work at some of our companies who I communicate with 99% through Slack. And maybe once a month or something, you know, we do something on the phone or video Or I'm in a meeting and they're there, you know, virtually, whatever. But what's the difference whether it's a human or it's AI on the other end? If you're talking in Slack and it's doing like that. To me, this is one of these moments where I'm like, I'm gonna. I just saw more of the future than I knew two weeks ago. And it feels pretty disruptive.
- [28:49]
Jordy Visser
Andrej Karpathy said, this is way bigger than you think it is. And I agree. Now again, I just mentioned loops. You're talking about tags. The main thing people have to understand is all of this changed in November of last year. So when you get to a point where the computers are actually solving stuff, what just happened with OpenAI and Jalapeno, an AI chip? So I've mentioned this before, but we solved the vaccine issue during COVID when a vaccine would normally take four years to go from. Okay, how do we go? It might take more. And it was done. And we had the blueprint before a single person died in the United States of America. It's an amazing thing to think that AI was able to take the blueprint and then create the specs of a vaccine and then it had to go through the process, which took another nine months, which was fast tracked. So now you go forward. These AI, the Jalapeno AI chip where OpenAI worked with Broadcom, which is a disruptive thing for Nvidia, well, that took nine months to go from idea design and AI was a major part of this. So again, when people start thinking about where we are, that's why I always say the world changed in November of last year. There wasn't a chatgpt moment for most of you, but for people that were power users, they felt it. And so when Andre Karpathy spoke, he was the one that basically said the world changed in November. And that was a month after he was on a faint, very big podcast saying, I don't see any agentic stuff for another decade. You have to think about how wrong he was, how fast it's going. And as I said last week, Leopold wrote this paper, this is happening faster than even he predicted. And I think that's the issue, is that people have to just accept that loops, tags, all this stuff, those are all getting to the point where you don't need as many employees.
- [30:46]
Interviewer/Host
Regulation is rapidly running to keep up here. What is the impact of that going to be?
- [30:53]
Jordy Visser
I mean, for people who don't like change, it'll slow things down. We're obviously seeing election results which are indicative of a continuation from what the voters voted for in New York City. You're getting more and more of this story. You're getting more and more empowerment when you're seeing Bernie Sanders rise again into some form of this and scare both the Republican Party, but also a major part of the Democratic Party.
- [31:21]
Interviewer/Host
Guy has nine lives, man.
- [31:22]
Jordy Visser
Yeah, it's amazing. I mean, the water in Vermont and Maine is very good. So you're getting lots of spring water. Keep you young. It won't stop artificial intelligence. I think David Freeberg on the All In Podcast gave a great commentary on this a week and a half ago. And he basically said, it's like the Internet. You can't stop it. And we haven't even built the data centers yet. And we're talking about the agentic world accelerating. We need the data centers for longevity and for all kinds of things, but we don't know how many we need. We actually don't know because the progress is going so fast. So as much as I think the government will delay things, they'll create issues on things. They might make it more challenging. They might tax things. I mean, in Korea, we got another movement towards this unrealized capital gains tax. For everyone out there who's forgotten about crypto and confiscation and a lot of movements on the distribution wealth, whether it's in the Netherlands, whether it's in Switzerland, whether it's in California, you can go through places. I mean, the rise of socialism because of the distribution of wealth is there. And I think AI only makes the situation worse. And when I mention tags and loops, to bring up what you said, I don't need tags because I don't have any employees. So I'm actually working with my employee every single day on the brainstorming side of how to build things out. I want people to understand. The same thing happens for loops, meaning I will start doing loops because I'll take my process, process the workflow that I do, and have the agents run and improve on it. So I'm going to do something this weekend and show people like, this is a process. I've shown you on how I go from a transcript to a thematic portfolio. That process is five different parts. An agent loop can do that and go through it and then check for new information. Give me a new one, Go through it, check it. Oh, a new transcript came out. Does this fit the theme? Should we change names? Like, it just continues it. So it's like an endless loop loop of just getting better. Those are the things that impact workers. Those are the things that allow companies with lots of employees to figure out how to get rid of them while entrepreneurs, I think are benefiting faster, and Stripe has highlighted that. But I really believe that entrepreneurs have a huge advantage in this world Today's
- [33:52]
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Interviewer/Host
Me too.
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- [35:51]
Interviewer/Host
Talk a little about the stripe sessions and what what they're talking there with the solopreneurs.
- [35:58]
Jordy Visser
So we talked about this last year I watched my first stripe session last year after I watched I watched the one the year before because I like seeing how things change. And Stripes are very important company in the United States of America. It's not only just a big private company, but the future of finance is dependent on what Stripe is doing. And now you have all the banks and crypto for everyone who listens to you. Stripe is a really important player in the crypto world. My entire business is on Stripe. It's a great thing. I mean, taxation in other countries and everything along those lines. It just makes running the business much easier. And on the Stripe sessions, if you just watch the keynote, first of all, you see these charts and you see these numbers going parabolic. But this is all about AI. So a lot of what they talked about is in AI, if you want to build an app now, it's easy, you go do it in code. So we see how many apps are being built. But to take an app that does something and then turn it into money, where you're getting the money, so it becomes a business. Well, then you need a cfo. You need an imp. Well, Stripe Projects allows you to go from this to that. And they showed a demo of how you can, hey, you built your app. That's great. Now let's turn it into where you make money. So now it's not just the coding on one end. It's the coding from actually being in the place where you can collect the money and go through it. The last thing is for the agents to talk to each other and to start commerce. And they talked about the growth in that. The reason that's important is because that is the network effects for crypto. So you'll start to see benefits coming through the crypto world world as the volumes pick up. That's what we need. We need volume, we need activity. And they talked a lot about it. And I just want to make sure people realize we can't actually get to that point where the network effects take off and the agents are doing commerce until the first two stages happen. You needed the coding to get to a level that it could actually replace humans. We did that. And so people understand the importance of coding. There would be no GDP in the world if we couldn't communicate with each other. Communication for human beings allows business to actually happen. We talk about things. You sell things. You do that, you explain it. The language of digital employees is code. So the code allows them to talk with each other and go through it. So we needed the code. We needed them to be able to code on their own. Once we hit that point, then they can start building not just the apps. They can start building the financial part, and then those guardrails are there, and then the agents start doing stuff with each other. And on there they talked about the fact that certainly by 2030, but even sooner, more transactions will be happening via agents than humans. And when we get to that point, the only thing that works to deal with the transactions is not physical money, it's stablecoins. It is actually on the guardrails. And so the Stripe thing is a very important kind of gateway between the prior world and the future world. And I think for people in crypto who are depressed because of the bear market, the bear market continues. The AI agents at the critical point of what Stripe said is the commerce isn't happening yet, but we're getting there pretty soon.
- [39:09]
Interviewer/Host
It's fascinating to kind of see how fast this is all going. One of the narratives that's changed significantly is the debasement trade. Bitcoin, gold, silver, everything selling off. I think you've called this the debasement capitulation.
- [39:23]
Sponsor/Advertisement Voice
They're still debasing the currency.
- [39:25]
Paris Hilton
Yes.
- [39:26]
Sponsor/Advertisement Voice
So what's going on?
- [39:27]
Interviewer/Host
Why is bitcoin, gold and silver all selling off?
- [39:30]
Jordy Visser
I think last year, not just last year, but the last two years, there were two, let's say, bubbles, and when I say bubbles, things that both retail and institutions agreed on. So AI. No, retail loves AI institutions, for the most part, they're the. The older you are, the more you think it's a bubble. Nobody who thinks AI is a bubble thought gold was a bubble. Gold was the way bears got to come out and go, I'm bullish on something. It's just gold. They're also all bearish on bonds. Nobody owns bonds. Why would you own bonds? Inflation's on the higher side. So the debasement trade is not just long gold, long silver, long bitcoin. And yes, bitcoin was part of it until October of last year. Bitcoin was outperforming the stock market. Bitcoin was outperforming bonds significantly. So gold, silver and bitcoin get lumped in. It's amazing how bitcoin gets lumped into software. We get a bear market in that it gets left. It gets. It gets put in with the debasement trade. Now the debasement trades washing out. You got gold and silver going down. Because Kevin Warsh came out and said, well, I think I'm going to be more hawkish. And everyone said, that's it. Dollar rallies, everything's good. And I'm like, we still have a deficit, we still have Massive debt. Nothing is going to change because he speaks a certain language and we've got
- [40:52]
Sponsor/Advertisement Voice
a lot of people.
- [40:53]
Jordy Visser
I mean, Warren Pies put out a great chart this week. I was going to send it to you, which just showed the
- [41:00]
Interviewer/Host
part of
- [41:00]
Jordy Visser
the economy that is now the information and computer side versus residential investment. Residential investments not moving, which means house prices are not moving, which is where the bulk of the Americans would like to see. This bull market AI going up does not benefit everyone the same way. So I think the debasement trade has reached a point where because bond yields or bonds just stay stable, they don't do anything. This was really. People had reduced in their wealth management portfolio. I think some pension funds had done this. We had a scenario that we were overweight. This debasement trade underweight bonds. And when the trade starts doing poorly and it coincides with us running into the end of a quarter. And everyone should remember this, Bitcoin is now an asset that people invest in. It's part of the asset allocation process. People make decisions at the end of a quarter and you tend to get a lot of people that are bailing out. You also have people shorting the hell out of the thing because I'm reading more Michael Saylor stuff and that microstrategy is going to blow up and they're going to have to sell. So we really have. The mob is not involved, meaning retail is not involved. It's a bear market. You have institutions that hate bitcoin. You have the debasement trade going down. You still have the software names like Adobe and Salesforce not bouncing at all. Bitcoin's just lumped in with a bunch of bad stuff right now.
- [42:23]
Interviewer/Host
When will it recover
- [42:25]
Jordy Visser
again? For me, this is a very simple thing. And I say simple because it's what I do believe in terms of the end game for AI, AI agents and the network effects happening and the amount of volumes that will be going on. The economy will change forever. There are two things that will happen, and I've mentioned this on here at least a few times, when Caitlin Long wrote a piece about the velocity of money changing. Now, this is a tradfi banker who understands GDP and we both respect Caitlin a lot. She knows that world really well and so do I. Velocity of money's been a dead thing and the reason it's been dead is because the world's assets have gone up so much. So when you go through the whole what bitcoin represents, it represents the fact that the fiat assets have gone up so much. The distribution of wealth has gotten worse and it makes people angry. And the government just keeps solving this problem. They're not going to need to do that anymore. And the reason they won't need to do that is combination of demographics. So there is 700 plus trillion dollars of wealth on the planet. It's in assets. Two thirds of those assets are in dormant assets. It's money. A house is money. If you can get cash for it, you can go spend it. It's money. It's like what SpaceX was. SpaceX was a dormant asset. It was a private thing. And over the course of the next few months, a lot of people are going to be millionaires and actually can go cash in their money. You'll have billionaires that can go cash in their money, then they can turn around and go spend that money. They can go buy houses, they can do whatever they want. But it was a dormant asset that you'd have to go through hurdles to go borrow against. With tokenization and with AI agents transacting a lot, the velocity of money is going to increase significantly. And when the velocity of money goes through, people have to realize that GDP at the end of the day is the total sum of transactions and transactions are going to be happening faster. And the pieces of the pie that make up public companies are middlemen. They're taking taxes on all of this stuff. And so there'll be less taxes in terms of the friction that goes on and every year it'll get less and less. So I've always believed that the third wave of crypto, which in Elliott Wave turns means the most explosive one, would happen when the agents came. And I just want to leave people with one other part of Elliott Wave Wave, if I'm right about that, and I believe AI is the durable part. So for those of you who are bearish, AI, where Bitcoin is gone to me is if AI collapses, which to me is not going to happen, AI is a real thing. It's going to keep moving forward. AI agents are a real thing. And we're just keep making progress as that goes. For the end of the second wave, you need people believing that we're going back to the depths now, the depths of FTX and all of that. This is not that there are real people buying real businesses at dirt cheap prices right now. And I know some of the same people you do that are involved in this. These are really good people that have built businesses before that see value in this because they see what the NFTs will be as a positive thing. The need for them. Why the blockchain is necessary in a world of deep fakes. All of these thematic things that I've written about in my substack for 18 months, they're still in play. So I think people just need to remember things change very quickly. Micron was $60 when you and I started this. It's now 1200. And change. Things can change very quickly with AI. It's a big move.
- [46:01]
Interviewer/Host
All right. Well, thank you very much, Jordy. Anyone who needs something to do on Sunday morning, listen, this guy's got a banger coming out. I'm telling you. Hey, I know some of the little details of this video. You need to go and watch it tomorrow morning. All you do is you just go Jordy Visser on YouTube. Go watch. Of course, if you're going to watch the video, you might as well help them out. Hit the subscribe button. Maybe put a little, like little thumbs up on YouTube. Neil, the CEO of YouTube, he likes that. He says, oh, Jordy's popular. Let me give him a little boost on this video. So make sure you subscribe to Jordy's YouTube channel, give him a like on the video, and we'll do this again.
- [46:33]
Jordy Visser
I'll see you next week. From Maine.