A (2:30)

Yeah. I was looking through your website and it's really interesting what one of your past careers was. And just when we were talking while we were getting tech stuff kind of sorted out, you had mentioned that that is what led you into photography, which I think is probably the most random, like, career into photography that I've heard yet. So why don't you tell people? Well, okay, let's back up first. Tell people where you live, what genres you shoot, and then we'll talk about what you did before.

B (2:59)

Sure. I own Sachiko Studio, which is a luxury portrait studio here in Arcadia, California, and I shoot portraits of women, families and babies. And most recently, I've added in kimono photography as well.

A (3:15)

Awesome. Okay, so, you know, we'll talk about everything you do and how you do it all in a minute, but tell people what you used to do before.

B (3:24)

Well, I am a former professional race.

A (3:26)

Car driver, which is so badass, by the way.

B (3:29)

Thank you. I was one of the first females to pursue drifting in the United States here. Motorsport. It's a motorsport from Japan, which is now pro here. And I drove the pro series with my husband as well. And we both. That's kind of how we met. So. And that's just. I met a lot of photographers during my time because, you know, women and racing, it's kind of like you're the spectacle. So you meet a lot of photographers, Right. Get featured in a lot of things and they're just like, oh, we're going to do a photo shoot for this magazine spread and we're going to try to get you on the COVID blah, blah, blah. And then real quick, I learned about what not to do in portrait photography in terms of making your clients feel comfortable and not like a piece of meat.

A (4:15)

Okay.

B (4:16)

Yeah, that could be quite the experience. It was, but it was great because it kind of showed me what not to do and inspired me to be a better portrait photographer than they were and just treat my clients with the utmost respect and make everything fun and easy and comfortable and all the things that they weren't doing for me.

A (4:38)

Yeah, it's pretty remarkable how many clients that I've had too, that didn't have a great experience with another photographer.

B (4:45)

Yeah, I feel like.

A (4:46)

Yeah, I feel like it's kind of getting less and less that I do hear that. And I'm hoping that's because people are really kind of diving into education, like on portrait system and what Sue Bryce teaches and how, you know, the connection that you make with people and making people feel comfortable. I feel like that's coming to the forefront more so in education maybe, than it was before.

B (5:08)

I don't know. I think that's like, more than half of being a photographer is your people skills, especially if you're a portrait photographer. You've gotta be great with people because then you're gonna get beautiful, natural photos.

A (5:19)

Totally.

B (5:20)

You know?

A (5:21)

Well, and I always recommend, if you're a professional photographer and you've never hired, like, straight up, hired a photographer to do a shoot of you, I recommend it just so much to do it.

B (5:34)

Because I do too, Nikki. I do it every year. I have to. And I kind of don't like telling them what I do either sometimes, but they end up finding out eventually. But I just don't want to mess with their head. Like, I just. I love just being a client and learning from the experience, being a client rather than the photographer.

A (5:55)

So, yeah, absolutely. It just helps us. It helps remind us the things that make us feel really great during a shoot. And then, you know, not everyone's perfect. And I've had some experiences of people I hired where I was like, huh? But, yeah, it's a learning experience, you know, and I'm not in my head. I'm like, you've been there. Don't. You know, no judging, no judgment. This is, you know, whatever. Everyone's on their own.

B (6:19)

I let them drive, and I kind of just come back totally, you know, observe.

A (6:23)

I will say, though, I've. I've had photographers be like, well, you know how to pose yourself. And I'm like, no, no, no, no, no, no. Like, I can't see myself right now. Like, I've got. I've got my kids and my husband with me. Like, I know a little, you know, I know what to do, but you have to help me.

B (6:38)

Yeah. You guys, you're driving. I'm just sitting here.

A (6:41)

You tell me I'm not supposed to be thinking right now.

B (6:43)

Like, you can't.

A (6:45)

I'm getting you to think. So.

B (6:47)

Agreed.

A (6:48)

Okay. So race car driving, lots of photo shoots, and then that inspired you to become a photographer?

B (6:54)

Yeah, yeah. I mean, not to mention, by then, once I finished racing professionally, I had four kids, and so. And I just love children and photographing them, and, you know, I'm around it all the time, so I'M real good with kids, so it was kind of a match made in heaven.

A (7:10)

Oh, nice. How old are your kids now?

B (7:13)

Ooh, My oldest is 26. And then I have a 15 year old, 9 and 7. So I have a big gap.

A (7:21)

Yeah, you have a huge. Yeah, you have the gamut of ages. Yeah.

B (7:24)

My oldest moved out though, so I'm super happy. So one down, like she's, she's. My work is done there. So.

A (7:31)

Okay, so then how long have you been a photographer?

B (7:33)

This is my 12th year being a professional photographer.

A (7:36)

Okay, very cool, very cool. Okay, so when you first opened your business, what did it look like? Like, did you know what you wanted to do right away? I mean, I know you said you enjoy photographing kids, babies and that sort of thing, but did you like start out with a successful, profitable business from the start?

B (7:54)

Haha, you know, I didn't $150 shoots because I didn't know what I was doing. And then, you know, friends just asked me to be their family photographer and then they're like, hey, I'm having a baby and I don't do babies, but I'll try. And then weddings happened and I thought I could make more money, you know, shooting weddings. So I kind of went through all that. I found c Bryce in 2012, just like a year in on Creative Live and then Kelly Brown and then the portrait system. So as I learned more, my prices obviously went up, but my jump to like becoming a luxury full service studio didn't come till pretty much like a couple years ago, to be honest. So.

A (8:42)

Yeah, I mean, so many people go through that same experience where they're just starting out and barely charging anything. And I think there's something to be said when you're just starting out. Okay. Like let me say though that there have been people who've come right out the gate charging like $1,200. I don't know how they did it, but if your skills are good enough when you first start, like, of course. But if you still don't know how to use your camera and your lighting isn't great and you're, you know, still trying to figure out how to do all the things, like, you know, you got to start somewhere and yeah, as long as you don't stay there.

B (9:16)

Yeah, I think it's definitely all a, a process. But you make so many mistakes. And looking back, I just couldn't believe how low I valued my services because I was good. Like, I was good even back. I still look at the photos. I'm like, hey, these are still. They're holding up. Like, they look good.

A (9:34)

Yeah.

B (9:35)

So I'm glad to hear you say that.

A (9:37)

I felt like I was pretty good at the start, too. I mean, there are a couple things that I was doing now looking back. Like, I had this bride and groom. It was one of my first weddings that I ever did. And in their engagement photos, I used a preset, and it, like, changed their eye color, and I didn't realize it. And she was like, my eyes are not this color. And I was like, oh, right. Okay. Super sorry about that. You know, so there are little things and. Okay, one more thing about that. I had an experience with a family photographer where she change the color of our skin, like, from her presets. And, I mean, I'm fortunate enough that I know how to change our skin color back to what we normally look like. But I think sometimes as newer photographers, or maybe not even newer, but people just get used to presets that might. Like, even with the best presets, sometimes you still need to tweak it to make sure you're not changing skin and eyes, like, and hair colors.

B (10:35)

Yeah. But I think, like, also, you know, when we put perfume on and then we wear it all day and we don't think we smell it anymore. And we do.

A (10:41)

Yeah.

B (10:42)

So, like, the visual is the same with retouching. It's like, oh, yeah, they look fine, and then you just get kind of neutralized, and you don't really what you're doing to the image so well.

A (10:51)

And I think sometimes photographers want you to fit in with their esthetics. Like, that's what's most important to them, is that it looks great on their Instagram feed. And I'm like, so my husband looks like a corpse Android?

B (11:06)

Yeah.

A (11:06)

And I'm like, what is happening? You know? No, but I will say, every single photographer I've ever hired has given me the most. Really, truly. Like, I all. Like, I'm so happy with all the photos I got. It was just, like, some tweaks here and there. But if I wasn't a photographer and someone gave me those, I would have had to go back and say, like, dude, you completely changed my. My skin. And I probably should go back and say, hey, watch out for that.

B (11:29)

But, yeah, Yeah, I know It's. It's a tough combo. And I used to retouch people's moles off their face, and I go, oh, they're like, can you put this back? And I'm like, oh, sorry. That. That was one of the first like retouching mistakes I did, I was like, oh, you, you wanted to keep that. Sorry, sorry. Offensive.

A (11:48)

So yeah, it is funny that. One more thing about that is I go back and I look at some of the very first shoots that I did, especially the ones I did in the corner of my family room when I was building my portfolio there for like in studio stuff or whatever.

B (12:03)

Yeah.

A (12:03)

And I still really love some of those first shoots I did. I'm like, yeah, okay. Their skin's over, softened. Which I learned that, you know, eventually, but I was like, dang, I really like that. So anyway, portfolio is of professional standard. And if you're not sure if it is or not, ask someone. Fine. You know, stop charging $150. I guess that's this whole rant that I just went on that's.

B (12:26)

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Or $500 or $600, please. Yeah, get in the four figures, guys. Yeah, good place to be.

A (12:34)

Well, let's talk about how did you get into the four figures? Because you start. I looked at your website. You start at what is it, like 12 and 1500, depending on the genre. 1500?

B (12:44)

Yeah, yeah. You know, I've, I started in a really small space with small overhead. My rent was like 400 or something, you know, back in.

A (12:53)

And you're in California. I just want to make sure people know that like the cost of living out there is, is a little bit different.

B (12:58)

Yeah, yeah. So 2015, I had, I got my first studio. It was like 200 square feet and you know, I was still charging my terrible. I think I was up to like 425 to shoot something like that. And then real quick, we, I grew out of that studio and I got a really big studio down the street and I, I quadrupled the size. And I'm just like, okay, I need to, I need to get it together because this is not $425 a shoot and I have to pay $1700 rent. It doesn't compete. It doesn't. I can't do that. And then I really thought about it and I'm just like, okay, I need to level up my game and I need to operate as if I'm the best in the world and just stop this three digit pricing situation. And so I was, I knew what I had to do was to offer hair and makeup. It was my dream. I was like, oh, wouldn't it be cool if all my clients opted for hair and makeup? And it was funny because some were, some weren't. And I was like, Connecting them with artists. And I'm just like, wouldn't it be great if I just had my own artists and they worked for me and it was always mandatory and I dreamt about it. And then I made the jump when I was sick of seeing clients come in really frazzled their moms and they're busy and they were just like, nadine, I look like hell. I couldn't even get myself ready because my kids are being terrible and my husband can't even dress himself and I had to dress everybody and I have no time for myself. And I heard that song and dance like every shoot. And I was sad for my clients because then they were like, the pictures are great, but I wish I looked better because I didn't have enough time to get ready. And so, you know, that that was like the last straw. I was like, okay, I've heard the last complaint, guys. And then so I kind of just, Happy New Year, guys. This is the new studio. And I just, I sent it to my email list. I have about 550 clients on my email list and that's how I communicate with them. So I just, I said, guys, I've upgraded my services and now you can just show up and I take care of the rest. And oh, I love that approach when.

A (14:57)

You'Re raising your prices.

B (14:58)

Like, yeah, more for more.

A (15:00)

I'm making it so easy. You get to just relax and chill. I love it.

B (15:05)

And then, you know, I invested in 165 gowns in my studio and shoes and bras and nursing pads and all the things and I just thought of everything. Dress your kids. Now I have to address the dang husband. So I just have a extra dress shirts and belts because these guys can't even bring belts and dress shirts correctly. So, you know, I've transitioned over just one new year with a, with the resolution. I said, this is it. This is where we're at. And then it took off from there. And I kept the lower priced, My lower priced clients, they kind of filtered themselves out where they couldn't afford it. But the ones that were curious kind of did one shoot. And I said, I'm going to reward you if you spend over 2000 doll, I will put you in my VIP club and I will invite you for mini session events for every holiday, like, you know, Valentine's, Lunar New Year, Mother's Day. And those are like lower price sheets for only my VIPs that I know will come back and spend $2,000, but also that they want to come for the smaller sessions and I'm okay charging them the $600 or something for a mini because I'm rewarding them for being a loyalty 2000 plus client a year. So that's kind of, kind of how I tried my best to keep, keep everybody and keep feeding them, you know, lower priced sessions here and there. But also they fall in love with that full service stuff and then they get addicted and they're like, well, my mom wants to do it again, let's come back. I'm going to bring my other side of the family. So 80% of what I shoot now is just repeat business. Everyone knows they're just repeat offenders. They're like, they're used to it. They know they come back, they bring more family than the family wants a taste and then they bring their own and it kind of snowballs from there. So it's been a good, good transition, but it was, it was nerve wracking to charge that much.

A (16:57)

This makes me so happy. Yeah, I'm just hearing how you nurture your past clients and how you give them incentives and bonuses and things to come back and it just makes me so, so happy. I talk so much about this in one of my, my new marketing course about how so many people just let their old clients go.

B (17:18)

Oh, it's hard.

A (17:19)

One shoot with them and then that's it.

B (17:21)

Yeah, it's painful.

A (17:22)

They are the best clients. They already know what you charge and if you are going to do a price bump or something, you've got good reason for it. And I love the way you described it, but you already know you like to work with them. They already know they like to work with you. They know the process, they know the experience. Like they are the easiest people to market to and I think sometimes people forget that, you know.

B (17:44)

Yeah, they're your tribe. They are your tribe and you have to take care of them. And so I, I love it and I'm just, I've kept them and you know, filled. The ones that aren't for you will filter themselves out totally. There's a few, but for the most part, I mean people will pay what they, what you charge because they love you and just give them bonuses for, for being, you know, still there and being loyal to you and they're your lifetime client. That's it. They're your advocate, they're your salesperson.

A (18:13)

Well, and I like the idea of you doing some sort of special, you know, whether it's like I think you do like floral installations or something.

B (18:21)

Right? Yeah. Because it's a studio and everyone comes Back all the time. So I'm like, I have to change the studio every season. So I do sets for every holiday. And then even during the holiday season, I get multiple set builders in, guest builders and create interest that way.

A (18:38)

I love that. Is this when you do most of your, like, mini session stuff is for these special sets?

B (18:44)

Both. I mean, I'll do. Yeah. When I do the special sets. Yes, it is the mini session time and then. But the holiday season is the big, the big one where we actually saw more full sessions because people are so excited about the sets. They're like, I want to do both sets and I want to go outside. So.

A (19:03)

And I have like a love hate for mini sessions. And sue has talked about this too, because it's. You don't want to just only always be the mini session person.

B (19:12)

Oh, yeah.

A (19:13)

Or maybe you do, and if that works for you, great. But like, it is so much easier to have one family come in and have them spend two grand than it is to be shooting like 10 families in a row. I mean, it's just like you. It's just.

B (19:28)

Yeah.

A (19:28)

You know what I mean?

B (19:29)

There's a certain minimum you have to charge for that.

A (19:32)

Yeah, yeah. But there is something to be said for offering, like something like you're doing with these special sets and things. Maybe not the holiday ones, but like the floral things where your clients get to feel special like you, you know, the only people who get to do these are my past clients who've been loyal, who spent X amount of money or, you know, whatever. Like, I feel like it just is another way to make your clients feel feel special and loyal and. Yeah, I really love that.

B (19:59)

Thank you. Yeah, I love it too. But yeah, no new clients for minis. That's. That's the rule here. So you can't come to me for, for little money.

A (20:10)

Yeah. And I know that, like sometimes a big, A big session of mini shoots can be very lucrative. It's just. Is that sustainable for you? I guess is the question I want to ask, you know, to people listening. Like, just be careful with that. You don't want to get known to be the $200, $250, even $500 mini person.

B (20:33)

No, it ruins it for. I feel like it ruins it for other photographers because then if you only do minis, you become so efficient and you kind of over deliver and give them way too much because you're so good at it and then you're like messing up the market because then nobody wants to do full sessions because it's like, oh, look what all I get with just a mini session. And then it messes other photographers too. And so that's what I always tell my, like, photographer friends is like, raise your price. Stop messing it up for me.

A (21:03)

Yeah.

B (21:03)

And. And then they. They kind of, like, take a step back. They're like, what do you mean, mess it up for you? So, you know, I'm talking about value. So if you can give my client way more than I can for, like, half the price, it's messing up the market. So for every photographer that doesn't charge enough, you're ruining it for another that, you know, it's. It's harder for other people to value their work.

A (21:25)

So, yeah, there's definitely a fine line there, for sure. And. And I think, you know, that's something that sue has been trying to do all these years, and most educators all these years is like, we have to set industry standards.

B (21:37)

Yeah.

A (21:38)

You know, this is just the expectation that that's what it is.

B (21:42)

Yeah, you can charge whatever you want, but you can charge thousand. You can charge 2,000. I'm on my way to 5,000. Like, it's just. You can do it. You just have to be confident in charging it and more for more. Add value to your services.

A (21:54)

Have you ever had sort of, you know, are things always really good, or do you have some ups and downs with business?

B (22:03)

No, it's. It's ups and downs. It was really funny. Covid was fantastic for me, and I actually grew my business, expanded my studio during COVID so that's actually surprising. And then all of a sudden, when things started opening back up again, then it kind of crashed. And then I was like, where? Where is everybody? And I do my seasonal minis. And then all of a sudden, it's just like, oh, I booked three. Cool. Where are you guys at? And it was like crickets. And it was really scary for me, it was just these first, like, three months of this year that were just completely dead. And I was kind of worried. I was really worried. And then everything was really bad. So, you know, and being a luxury photographer, you know, you start thinking about, like, oh, is it the recession? Is it money? Are my clients? And really what it was was just my clients are out traveling. Like, things are opened up. They want to go on spring break, go travel. And, you know, in hindsight, that's what it was. It wasn't me, and it wasn't my pricing. It wasn't a recession. It was just like, people were busy trying to get back to. To normal. And they weren't worrying about photos anymore. They wanted to go travel and have fun and go to Disneyland and stuff, and just wasn't front of mind. And so during that time, you know, a person who is not financially stable that could close a studio, like, if you all of a sudden are shooting. I was, like, shooting maybe 25% of what I usually shoot, and it was really upsetting. So, you know, rather than cry about it, I thought, okay, what can I do to stay front of mind and also work on my studio? And so then I kind of decided to build another side of my business since I wasn't busy. So I started training to become a kimono dresser. And kimonos are Japanese traditional attire, and it's a really very special art, and it's very, very difficult to learn. People go to Japan and to become certified dressers, like, nobody can just say, like, oh, I'm a certified dresser. Like, you have to go to school for that. And so I found certified people here in SoCal, and they actually agreed to give me classes. So then I started taking classes every week, and I did about 20, 26 hours of kimono dressing classes as continuing education. So. And so. And then I built my kimono collection, and I just. I had some money saved, and I spent probably almost $10,000 just purchasing kimonos and. And all the little pieces. It takes, like, 20 little pieces to put a kimono on. Like, it's not even the kimono that's expensive. It's, like, the bands and the undergarments and the belts and the shoes and the socks and.

A (24:51)

Yeah. I mean, who knew? I mean, obviously, if you're probably. But who. You know, like, I had no idea that that was that much going into it.

B (24:59)

Yeah. And that's what's so beautiful about it, though, because it's so beautiful to photograph kimonos and.

A (25:05)

And I'm so beautiful.

B (25:07)

I'm part Japanese. And, like, I feel like it's a dying culture, you know, because there's so many. Where I am, it's about 65% Asian. Where. Where I am in SoCal, and they're all Chinese. Really. There's not many Japanese. And there's a big difference between Chinese and Japanese culture. And the kimono thing, like, I felt.

A (25:28)

Like, okay, did I get that wrong? Is kimono okay? I'm super sorry for being ignorant about this, but for kimonos, is it traditionally Japanese or Chinese culture?

B (25:36)

It's traditionally Japanese.

A (25:37)

Japanese. Okay, that's what I thought.

B (25:38)

Yeah. Yeah. And I'm throwing you off, too, because I married a Chinese guy, so my last name is Sue Hsu. And like, he's Chinese, but I am, I am half Japanese and half white, so. And, you know, I was born and raised in California, but I do, I love my culture and I really wanted to share the art of kimono dressing with my clients. And I thought I can create a new interest in photography by dressing my clients in kimonos and children in kimonos. That kind of photography is huge in Japan. So I'm just like, I'm gonna bring that here. So then I started hosting a lot on IG and sending email blasts and educating my clients to create the interest of putting their children in kimonos. Whether they're Japanese or Chinese or American, it does not matter. It's just some. It's a really fun thing to do with your family. And the parents can dress up. They don't have to dress up. It could be like all about the kids. And so I launched that in late March and that kind of, that was one of the things that saved me where, you know, one, I wasn't sitting there doing nothing, worrying about if my doors are going to close and to like, I was working on the next big thing, which created a buzz. And then it was fulfilling to me because I'm educating everyone about my culture. And then also I went back to all my newborn clients from the previous year and I said, hey, you didn't purchase a milestone package last year, but you know, little Joey is going to be six months. I'm going to extend this milestone package to you one more time just in case because I don't want you to fall behind on getting those photos taken for the six month and the one year because that's. I do a lot of milestone photography here. And so I did get a few pre. Like, they booked the milestone package and those are prepaid. So, you know, that's another, you know, a few thousand dollars plus in my pocket of prepaid sessions that were booked during my slow season.

A (27:38)

Hey, just a quick break to tell you that since you're here listening, you have access to a really great opportunity offer for our listeners only. We have a special promo code you can use to get 50% off the cost of membership. Just go to theportraitsystem.com or click the link in the description and use the promo code. Podcast 50 to get 50% off of a membership. We rarely discount membership, so this is a big deal. As I hope you already know, the membership is how I and so many guests on this podcast reached Our success. And it gives you access to countless amazing members, videos, an awesome community, and all the tools you need to build a massively successful business. So use the code podcast50Now to join the community and to start building the business of your dreams. I'll see you there. So I love how proactive you are. It's not just, oh, I hope people come to me, you know, like, oh, I did a couple things and no one's at my door. Like, you are being seriously proactive. And I feel like people, at least, you know, I know it ebbs and flows. Like, there are times when I don't have to be as heavy on the marketing, you know, but I don't know. It's just a continuous thing. And I don't want people to feel like you forever have to be doing all these crazy things. But when things start to kind of wane a little bit, there are so many things you can do to bring it back up.

B (29:00)

Yeah, you gotta pivot a little bit. And in Covid taught us all that. Like, how do you pivot? And I feel like that kind of separated a lot of us from being like, are you a true entrepreneur? Or are you going to be, like, feeling sit there feeling sorry for yourself and close your business? So I think that set a lot of us apart. But, yeah, I mean, I had to capitalize on the free time, and I definitely filled that free time with learning everything Kimono. So, yeah. Oh, my gosh.

A (29:29)

So, yeah, we had Maana read on and she. Her episode was back in April of 2020, but she talks about her cultural portraits that she does in Hawaii. And it is. She is so incredibly successful with it. And I like, here I am, this white girl. My family doesn't wear anything special or unfortunately, but I feel like there's always a way to bring it back to some sort of connection to where you live or who you are or whatever. You know, finding this little niche of. Of something. Like, there's so much out there that you could bring it back to.

B (30:08)

Yeah, agreed. And. And genuinely, if you have a personal connection with something that you are trying to share with people, I think they stop and listen a little better because they're like, oh, I want to hear your story and how you are personally connected to this. Oh, this is interesting. I'm in it. Okay. I want some of this. So that's. That's kind of what my thought process was too. Like, it's just. It should be seen and I want them to be seen. And now everyone knows, like, oh, she's Doing kimono sessions. And, and also I, I want to add too that the Japanese culture, they're very closed. And so there's a lot of really old school Japanese people in my area that don't want to share the culture. Or maybe they're just more closed doors situation and they're just like, oh, Japanese people wear Japanese kimonos and Japanese people will do tea ceremonies and Japanese people, you know, and, and I'm like more of the mindset where it's just like everyone needs to wear a kimono once in their life at least if not more. And then like there's different milestones for different kimonos. Like when you're seven years old, you wear a different one than when you're nine. And then boys wear one different when they're three versus five. And then when you're 20, you have a special one. So there's all these like really cool kimonos too that I bought. Like oh my God, I love it. So it's just so fun, so beautiful to photograph too.

A (31:27)

So yeah, that's great. Now in other times like that your business has kind of gone up and down or whatever was it. Did it just start going up and down like during the COVID times or did you ever experience something like that in the past?

B (31:40)

I have. I think it's cyclical. I feel like every other year there's, there's kind of like a mini crisis where I'm just like, oh crap, what am I doing? Yeah. And, and that's one of the reasons why I built my email list of all my past clients, current clients, inquiries, things like that. And it's been really good to communicate with them and just kind of keep, keep the business front of mind because there's of course always social media, but you're relying on the algorithm to show you to everybody. 100 but I can control my email list and so. And I have a great. I use flodesk.

A (32:18)

I do too. I just talk about this in my course too, about how like email market and how to do it. And I was like, I swear I'm not affiliated with flodesk. But it's just so easy and I love it. Yeah.

B (32:28)

Can we be flodesk?

A (32:29)

Like it's so good.

B (32:32)

Yeah. And it doesn't go to their spam. And I think that's the best part is that it's going to their inbox and not their spam. Cause I had that problem before with I think mailchimp or something.

A (32:43)

I had activecampaign. Okay. I'm not trying to like dog on activecampaign. It's just I find for someone like me who's not a tech email expert, like what's on the tech end of it? Flodesk has been like, oh, like so easy. Just like how I feel about Showit with my website. And again, I'm not affiliated with Showit either. It has just made my life so easy to build a website.

B (33:08)

Maybe we can be now that we've mentioned them and they're gonna get so much more.

A (33:12)

I know, right?

B (33:13)

Yeah, yeah. But yeah, love it.

A (33:17)

Yeah. The email list thing is, is really, really important. So you know, what types of things have you done email list wise? I know you do like specials and things, but do you do any like nurturing sequences or anything that you know on the regular that you send out or.

B (33:34)

Yeah, yeah. And so I do believe that every email that you send to your clients should not be about buying or selling like you cannot. And so I don't want to be the salesy lady. So every, every few of them I will sell. But I try to focus on a newsletter and talk about what's going on in the studio. What can I educate them about and get them excited and share trends with them and just give them an update on my personal life too, because a lot of them really care about me and it's so nice, like we've become, we have a relationship because so many of them are my repeat clients. So they, they love hearing about my updates on, on all the kids I have and, and just seeing like our latest photo shoot like we did, because we do one every year in the end of the summer for our Christmas cards. So it's like I do my best to kind of do behind the scenes of my personal life with them, you know, just so they can feel that connection. So, so yeah, it's kind of like a jab, jab, jab punch kind of thing. I just did a self defense class yesterday, so I'm like in that mood right now.

A (34:43)

But I love it. I love it. But that's exactly what it is. I mean, you have to nurture them in some way. I have done these and these got really high open rates. I don't do them so much anymore. But it was highlighting a client and then I would ask the client to make me a list of 10 things. Usually it was a woman, just a personal branding because that's what I was focusing on the most. But 10 things that people might not know about them from that like old trashy magazine that I used to read like Us Weekly or something. They would have that 25 things you might not know about whatever celebrity anyway. And so I would make the title really enticing. Like something about that client. Like, you'll never guess where this client found herself naked. You know, something like that. Like, okay, that was good. I'm feeling a little weird that that's just what popped out of my head when I. Okay. But anyway, like, things like that to try and entice people to open the email and then it would be a little bit about their shoot and why they did it, and then my favorite photos of them and then their 10 things about them just kind of intertwined and people really loved it. And I had clients like, can I be a featured on your top 10?

B (35:57)

You know, I love that.

A (35:58)

So there's just, there's so many different things that you can do. Like on my email list, you know, I have two kind of two separate email lists, one for clients and one for photographers. Because I'm an educator.

B (36:08)

But.

A (36:08)

And I always do a three on Thursday weekly email letter. And I give tips and tricks and like, try to give like golden nuggets. I share like all the ins and outs of all the studios I've had and certain, you know, things that have worked and not worked and Yeah, I subscribe to.

B (36:28)

I know.

A (36:28)

Oh, do you?

B (36:29)

Yeah, we're talking about your studio. And then.

A (36:32)

Yeah, yeah, I've been going through. That's the thing I've been doing lately is going through all of the. And this has been like a walk down memory lane for me. Sharing all the, like really bad behind the scenes too. Okay, they're not all bad, but like everything was done on a phone really quickly. But. But whatever. I've been sharing all. All of my old studios and stuff and it's been so cool. It like chokes me up a little bit going through it. Right.

B (36:58)

All.

A (36:58)

But anyway, yeah, the point is, is like you said, you share some personal things, some business things, you know, I don't know.

B (37:06)

I love highlighting the clients though. That's really good, Nikki. And. And I think like the other. I. I do one other thing too, I forgot to mention, which is doing a client appreciation party.

A (37:19)

Ah, yes.

B (37:20)

For my anniversary. So we do that every year and I do that at Halloween because I'm a Halloween baby and I love Halloween time. So I throw this massive Halloween party. And it started during COVID because we started it as a drive through trick or treat thing, but obviously now we can park and get out of the car. And so we'll do, like, a photo booth, and the kids will do a costume contest. Everyone takes their photo. We award prizes, like gift certificates to the studio, have the ice cream people here. They just have a really good time, and they expect that every year now, too. So that's also another jab. Right. And then I say, you can bring one friend. And so that's kind of a nod to, like, Sue's old champagne party situation, you know, just to introduce them to the studio and the environment. And so we'll have over a hundred people here, lots of kids. But the costumes are really fun. I said everyone has to dress up, even the families, like mom, dad, you two.

A (38:19)

Great.

B (38:21)

Yeah.

A (38:21)

Do you do anything special during those parties, like a giveaway or. You know, I don't know.

B (38:27)

Yeah, I think the costume contest is a big one where they can win gift certificates to the studio that's kind of like. And everyone is very competitive. My clients are very ocd, and they love the best of the best, so they just go all out. So really, I feel like it's kind of a fashion show because you just see what these people do, and they make their costumes, and it's become a thing, so they expect it every year now. So it's the annual Halloween client appreciation event. So.

A (38:59)

Yeah, that's great. And again, it keeps you top of mind.

B (39:03)

Well.

A (39:04)

Oh, and, you know, you had mentioned that you quadrupled your studio space, but Is this your third studio?

B (39:09)

Are you?

A (39:10)

Cause you said this one's, like, 3,000 square feet.

B (39:13)

Yeah. So, yeah, I started 400, and then I got the room. No, 200. Then I went to 400, then I went to. To 1600, and then I went to 27, 2800. So almost 3,000 now. And I did that during COVID because my neighbor was moving, and he's like, I'm out of here. And I'm like, I'm taking your space. And I turned the suite next door to mine into my offices because our studio was just growing and growing and growing. So finally, I moved all the desks out. So now it's specifically, like, shooting only, and we have a completely separate suite for offices. And it's worked out so much better because we would be doing shoots, and kids would be running into the office, like, hi. What are you doing? You know, to the front. My employees, and they're just like, oh, my God. Your. Your client's kids really love me. And I'm just like, I'm sorry. I'm sorry. And, yeah, so it's been. It's been a Labor of love. But I love having the separate space. So we can, I can go here to work to the office and then mentally I can focus better and then the studio is just for shooting.

A (40:19)

Yes, definitely. I've had studios where everything was in one. Even like the makeup station, I had to put that away to get the V flats out and all of that, which was fine. But oh man, it's so nice to have that.

B (40:33)

Yeah, it's a dedicated space. I have two makeup and hair stations and all the 165 dresses hanging in one room with a dressing room and interchanging table. So it's like, like a very nice getting ready room. And I'm just so proud of that room. Like that's what I did with the office that used to be there. So it's. Yeah, yeah.

A (40:52)

Now it says on your website too that you have an office team.

B (40:56)

Yes.

A (40:56)

Tell, tell us a little bit about that.

B (40:58)

Yeah, so I have a studio assistant and I, I think that I, I tried to operate without one having the studio, but I realized really quick how much more productive I would be if I had someone working for me. Isn't that so true? Yeah. So she's pretty much full time. She is here like Monday through Thursday and then Fridays I usually don't work. And then we'll, we'll work like one day on the weekends sometimes. Because I'm a mom, I don't really like giving away my weekends, so. But yeah, it's been great. She, she works with all my clients and in styling we do style consultations. So she'll do those and new client consultations and build albums for me, do time schedules for shoots, just things like that. Like do all the follow ups and things like that. And then I have another employee that works for both my businesses. I have another business and so I have two other employees for that business and they help me out with the accounting for this business. But then, you know, they're mainly working on my other business. So I have three full time employees here and then myself. And I'm really excited because I added myself to payroll and I'm paying myself a paycheck for like the first time, you know, because before I think when you're starting out, you're just kind of like sole proprietor. You just transfer money over when you have money to transfer. And it just never felt good like, you know, like you're not paying yourself. So when I put myself on payroll, that was this year and that was a really big step I took, which was very stressful. And then calculating Your salary, like what you should be making as a CEO of a portrait studio. That was stressful trying to figure that out because you don't want to pay yourself minimum wage. Like, you want to pay yourself a really nice salary. You're a CEO.

A (42:50)

Right.

B (42:51)

So I kind of went through that. And so I feel like I graduated, you know, this year.

A (42:56)

Yeah.

B (42:57)

And that's. That was a big, big moment. That was like two months ago.

A (43:01)

That's awesome. Good for you.

B (43:03)

Thanks.

A (43:04)

You know, and it's nice too. Cause having a bunch of money in your business account left over feels really good.

B (43:11)

Yeah. Well, also, like, when you add the expenses, like, when I got the space, I couldn't afford it. I had to make the money to be able to afford.

A (43:22)

Pressure is on. Yes.

B (43:24)

And. And you. I think the best entrepreneurs are the ones that have to make. They have to make it. They're relying on it. It's not fun money. You got bills to pay, employees to pay, rent to pay. And so I think that kind of really leveled up my business game is just committing myself and then seeing myself on payroll. It's like, okay, Nadine, you really need to get it together and book these damn shoots because now you on payroll. And I don't want to take myself off payroll because I'm short on cash or something like that. So that just, you know, the next chapter is just mo money. You gotta just focus and really keep your eye on the prize and still keep it fun, though. I still love, love what I do. And it does not feel like a job. It's. It's still feeling like a fantasy, like, this is my job. Like, oh, my God. Like, you know, you stop and you pinch yourself and I'm dressing someone in a kimono and I'm just like, yep, that's. They're paying me to do this.

A (44:21)

So fun and so amazing. Yeah.

B (44:23)

Yeah.

A (44:24)

Just like looking through your studio, you have a 360 view kind of thing where you can look at your studio on your website. It's really great. I love how you include all of that, but it kind of makes me miss having my own space. Like, I went down to a share space and this share space is incredible. It's called Studio Studio in Ann Arbor. Although I hesitate that I keep talking about it because I feel like it's getting booked up so much now.

B (44:45)

But because of you, they need to.

A (44:47)

Well, no, no. They just have an amazing studio. That's really what it comes down to. But, you know, I had two studios for so long. One, you know, two different states that I was managing. And I, I, you know, I was doing 10 to 12 shoots a month, and I just was getting a little burned out on managing the studio. And then when I started doing this podcast, I kind of, you know, I don't shoot quite as much anymore, like, a couple times a month as opposed to, you know, 12 times a month. And so I was just getting burned out and trying to, like, juggle all the things. And anyways, I do the studio share again. It's incredible. But I don't have the freedom to go in and change things unless I bring it with me and take it out or decide I'm gonna leave it there for other photographers to use. You know, they do events there, things like that. So I don't know, I get this, like, pang of like, oh, I really want to. Yeah, do that again, you know?

B (45:42)

Yeah. Who knows?

A (45:43)

Maybe I will.

B (45:44)

It's a love hate. I mean, I used to be mentored by Jasmine Star, and it was so funny. She'd be like, don't ever get a space. You know, it was funny. Like, some people feel so strongly about it, and then other people like me. I feel like I needed that to validate my business and inspire me to create more and make more and elevate my business. So I. I rely a lot on my space, but that's just for me. I didn't enjoy meeting people at someone else's space or going to Starbucks and. Yeah.

A (46:14)

Oh, oh, speaking of going to Starbucks, you said you used to do your photo viewings at Starbucks.

B (46:19)

Yeah, Yeah, I did, too.

A (46:21)

That's how I started, too.

B (46:22)

Yeah. And then my first wedding consultation, it was the first one, and it was at Starbucks and it was so loud and the Internet was so slow, and I was like, what did you say? Did you say yes? Like, I couldn't hear you.

A (46:35)

And people might hate me for this, but I hate being at coffee shops. I feel like so many people are going to be like, what the. I just. I don't drink coffee. I feel like the tables are small, it's usually crowded, and. And, like, it's not cozy. I don't know. I just don't.

B (46:53)

No, I agree.

A (46:54)

I'm not.

B (46:56)

I'm not a coffee drinker either. So then I feel kind of like a poser being there. And then everything's dirty.

A (47:02)

Yes, it feels dirty. It feels. Especially in the winter, the floor is like. Okay, I know you don't deal with winter in California, but in Michigan, like, the floor is just, like, covered in, like, dirty, wet water. And, like, people Are just, like, irritated, trying to get their coffee. I'm just like, I just don't like any of it.

B (47:20)

Yeah, I know. I know. It's the same. I feel the same. I mean, we don't have a dirty floor, but we have homeless. A lot of homeless people. Cause we're by the train. I'm by the train station in this small town of Arcadia. And, like, they're all at Starbucks camping.

A (47:33)

So I'm just like, yeah, yeah, that's Seattle, too. Was like that, too. I had to find some different Starbucks. I had to go out of the city.

B (47:39)

Yeah, agree.

A (47:41)

I'm with you. Anyway, so, I mean, going from doing all your photo viewings in Starbucks, and like I said, I used to bring Nadine, I used to bring my folio boxes with printed, matted, like, gorgeous images into the coffee shop. And one time, one of the coffee shop we were going to, it wasn't a Starbucks. It was something else. But it was closed. I don't know why. So I was my clients, and I, like, went to open the door, and it was locked. And we looked at each other, and I was like, well, there's this, like, fast food Mexican restaurant next door.

B (48:10)

Oh, my God.

A (48:11)

And it was like, basically, there's no one in there. There were big tables, and we were able to, like, spread out. And I got some nachos for us to share. And I was like, I want to. Kind of want to start doing this. But anyways, it just goes to show, like, you. You can really. You don't have to have this big, grand space to do it. I'm an example of that. You're an example of that. There's so many examples of that. But it is nice to have.

B (48:36)

Yeah. And I used to go to people's homes, too. Like, that was. The other thing is, is I would go to their home, in the comfort of their home to make their decisions there. And that was. That was fun for a while, too.

A (48:46)

But I feel like that could be good, too, if you're really heavy on selling prints. Because then you're in their home saying, oh, these could go here. Yeah, I'll get them ordered for you. I'll even come over and hang them for you. Like, make it super easy for people. I feel like that could be a really great.

B (49:02)

I love the. The easy button. And I just bring all the big things and the measuring tape and be like. And they'll be like, what do you think? Where should I put it? And you walk around and you, you know, it's you. The clients Leave a lot in your hands. And I think that they, they want that and you feel like, oh, I don't want to make them feel like I'm up charging them, but, like, you need. They need that photo on the wall and they want to hear from you and what your professional opinion is.

A (49:27)

I feel like sometimes people are stressed out about doing a photo shoot just because they know they're never going to print them and they're going to sit on their hard drive and if someone is like, I will literally print them and design them and come to your house and hang them, I mean, it's. Someone would be like, okay, yeah, like you said, press the easy button.

B (49:48)

Yeah, yeah. It's such a good commercial for Office. Is that Staples or Office Depot?

A (49:54)

Staples.

B (49:56)

My easy button would be made of rose gold.

A (49:58)

Yeah, I love it. At Sue's last self value workshop, she has a no button and she brought that out and was like, talking about, like, the history of her no button and how she learned how to use it.

B (50:09)

It.

A (50:09)

That's what it reminds me of.

B (50:11)

Oh, that's a really good one. I love it.

A (50:16)

Well, thank you for sharing all of this. This has been really, really great.

B (50:19)

Oh, thank you so much for having me. It's. It's a dream to be on here. And, you know, I listen to the podcast religiously and, you know, you're my. My morning walk buddy, you know.

A (50:32)

Thank you so much.

B (50:33)

Yeah, I really appreciate you guys reaching out and having me on. And, you know, I've been a fan for a long time and a member for a long time, but I just haven't had enough guts to be on. And now I'm on.

A (50:45)

Okay, Nadine, I'm glad you said that too, because for people out there listening who are like, well, I don't know, I kind of want to be on, but I don't, you know, I'm a little nervous or maybe I'm not far enough in business. I want people to just send us a speak pipe. Sometimes we're looking for people who are just doing this part time who are kind of on the cusp of becoming full time, you know, because there are so many listeners out there who are like that. Like, I just want to encourage people, just send a speak pipe. And if you don't, okay, a speak pipe is if you go onto theportraitsystem.com and click on podcast. If you scroll down, it'll say, like, apply to be a guest or whatever. And we're looking for all different types of stories, you know, and it Might feel a little nerve wracking, but I'm pretty sure. I don't know, maybe unless people are talking shit behind my back, but I don't feel like that's the case. But I feel like every time someone's done, they're like, okay, that was way easier than I thought it was gonna be.

B (51:41)

Yeah. You guys are your own biggest critic. Okay? So just get over yourself. It's really. It's really. I think it's something that everyone needs to do is to just stop and smell the roses and get to talk about themselves where they're at right now. Yeah.

A (51:57)

Okay. One more thing. I feel like I've been talking a lot about myself this episode, so I'm.

B (52:01)

Sorry in advance, but we love hearing about you, Nikki. It's okay.

A (52:04)

I go through. Every so often, I go through my memories on Facebook from that day. And, like, every so often I'll just think, like, oh, I wonder what I was doing 10 years ago in this time. And I pulled up, it was exactly 10 years ago today that I wrote, Hang on, let me pull it up. It says it was July 7, 2013. It said, I would give anything for a pontoon boat on a lake and have a Corona in hand. And here I am thinking, oh, my God, I have, like, a cottage on a lake and a pontoon boat. And maybe it's not Corona anymore, it's summer shanty, but holy shit. Like, I did it, you know, you manifested that. And I feel like sometimes we don't give ourselves enough credit for what we're actually doing. So, like, what you had just said, like, give yourself, you know, a pat on the back and just give yourself the credit. Get over yourself. Like, you have come way further than you think you have.

B (52:57)

Yeah, agreed. Give yourself some flowers. We don't do that enough.

A (53:01)

That's so true. Yeah, true. All right, well, on that note, I have four more questions for you.

B (53:08)

I bet you I know what they are.

A (53:10)

All right, the first one is, what is something you could not live without when you're doing a photo? Photo shoot?

B (53:16)

My confidence. Every shoot, a client looks to me and they just kind of are like a little lost child. They just look at me with these eyes. And it is up to me as the photographer to always be confident in leading them and making them feel like they are taken care of during their shoot, Whether it's where they're looking, where they're posing, what are they wearing, what background are we doing? I always need to be confident in what I tell them. And I see that they Find a lot of comfort in that. I think there's nothing worse than working with somebody who just kind of, Well, I don't know, what do you want? And. And not. Not knowing, like, this is what we're gonna do, and making them feel comforted, because that's what they're paying you for. You're competent, professional. So I really. Yeah. My confidence. I lean on that a lot.

A (54:09)

Yeah, that's great. And so important.

B (54:11)

Yeah.

A (54:12)

All right, so for number two. But wait, before I ask you number two, I just want to say number three is a new question. We're switching up the questions a little bit. So number three is new, if you're listening. So just FYI.

B (54:22)

Oh, my gosh. And I get to be the first?

A (54:24)

Yes, you get to be the first.

B (54:25)

Okay.

A (54:25)

But number two is, how do you spend your time when you're not working?

B (54:28)

Well, I am a children's book author. I. I have a book about a girl who races cars, and it's a book.

A (54:35)

Oh, I love it.

B (54:36)

It is a book about series called Sachiko Goes Racing. So, yeah, I came out with my first book last year. I'm about to launch my second book, so it should be out by the time this podcast airs.

A (54:48)

How cool is that, Nadine?

B (54:49)

I love it. I love it. I love kids and reading and. Yeah. And then I really love hip hop dancing, so I do take classes for hip hop, and I still race cars once in a while. So those are. Those are my loves.

A (55:07)

Very exciting. But.

B (55:08)

Well, of course, my kids, too. My kids are my loves, too.

A (55:11)

But that goes without saying.

B (55:13)

I feel like. Yeah.

A (55:14)

Okay, number three, new question. What is your favorite photography product? It could be anything that you would recommend to photographers to use.

B (55:24)

I love this question. It was a challenge because I didn't have any notice, but I love custom sets. When you build a set, like, there's nothing. There's cool. It's cool to, like, get a backdrop with, like, something on it, but elevating backdrops by just adding some other elements, like florals, dried florals, pompous crates of things. I mean, I do that all the time, so my clients love the sets, and you could just add something small, and it just really elevates it. So just having textural elements and, you know, with you and just modify the. The set a little bit. It's just. I lean on that a lot, and it could just make all the difference. Just one small thing.

A (56:11)

So I love that. Adds more interest, too, to the photo.

B (56:14)

Yeah, definitely more custom.

A (56:17)

All right, number four is what would you Tell people who are just starting out.

B (56:21)

That's a good one. I really think that you should learn how to take a good photo. Right, technically sound photo. But the other half of photography, like I mentioned earlier, is your people skills. And you really need to hone in on working on your people skills and becoming a confident photographer, a complimentary photographer and making sure that your clients, your subject feels that ease the entire shoot. Because I think that is just as important as being able to take a good well lit photo in focus and things like that. Like you've really got to work on your people skills. So photography is not just about f stops and apertures and things like that. It's your people skills. So work on that and shoot as many people as you can and build your confidence up as a photographer. And if you have to approach people on the street and do portraits that way, if you want to become a portrait photographer, I think it's the best way. Just photograph people you don't know and you'll learn real quick how to work with different kinds of people.

A (57:26)

Great advice. Thank you for that. And where can people find you online? Nadine?

B (57:31)

I am on Instagram Sachiko Studio. That's S a C H I K O studio. And on Facebook tchostudio and sachicostudio.com and my book is Sachico Goes Ready to Racing.com. so everything is Sachiko. So yeah.

A (57:48)

Fantastic. Thank you so much.

B (57:49)

Thank you so much.

A (57:51)

Will I see you at the Portrait Masters conference?

B (57:53)

Yes, I made the decision to come. I've never come before so I'm, I'm really excited to come to Arizona.

A (58:00)

Fantastic. Oh, I'm excited.

B (58:02)

Yes. So I will see you there.

A (58:04)

All right. Sounds good my dear. You have a wonderful weekend and I will talk to you soon.

B (58:09)

You too, Nikki. Thank you.

A (58:10)

You okay? Take care.

B (58:12)

Take care.

A (58:13)

Thank you so much for listening to the Portrait System podcast. Your 5 star reviews really help us to continue what we do. So if you like listening, would you mind giving us a review wherever you listen? I also encourage you to head over to subriceeducation.com where you can find all of the education you need to be a successful photographer. There are over 1000 on demand educational videos on things like post lighting, styling, retouching, shooting, marketing, sales, business and self value. There's also the 90 day startup challenge plus so many downloads showing hundreds of different poses. We have to do checklists for your business, lighting, PDFs. I mean truly everything to help make you a better photographer and to make you more money. Once Again, that's Sue briceducation.com.