A (2:34)

Fun.

B (2:35)

So it's like sleet, rain, snow, all the. All the fun New England things.

A (2:39)

Yeah, all the good things. I mean, it's winter right now. Do you stay busy during winter?

B (2:44)

I do. I'm just going to dive right into it. I am pretty busy all the time, but I also am scheduled to have carpal tunnel surgery tomorrow.

A (2:53)

Oh, geez.

B (2:54)

So that's not fun. I'm preparing for a little downtime, and as most entrepreneurs, there's never downtime in my mind. So it's going to be a little bit of an adjustment. But, yeah, winter, I feel like that's when I really flourish a lot more. Because people are thinking about, especially in the January, February, March, people are thinking about coming into their businesses a little bit more, showing up in front of their businesses a little bit more, maybe looking for a new career.

A (3:26)

Yeah. It's interesting because I know you do a lot of headshots on personal branding, and we'll get into that. But I recently sent out an email to my list saying the same thing, that January for me is usually January and February are usually really busy. And January was super busy for me this year. And I feel like it kind of is a little bit different from people who do seniors or weddings or, you know, because those can be more seasonal, where it's the warmer months, where for us, at the beginning of the year, people are starting to look at their own business goals and what is it that I need to do to get this year off to the right start? And photo is a huge part of that.

B (4:00)

Yes, most definitely. And you and I have a history, too, together, that I started out at weddings. And I remember listening to you talk about your journey from getting out of weddings. I always think about you because I'm like, oh, my gosh. I am. I have no weddings booked this year. I'm not freaking out. I'm not.

A (4:21)

That is so great.

B (4:22)

I'm so happy.

A (4:24)

Yeah. I remember the first. The first year that I was like, okay, I'm limiting my weddings. And I was freaking out because it's like, you know how it goes with weddings. Normally your calendar is booked up way in advance, and it's not. I mean, you can get booked up pretty far with personal branding, but it's not going to Be a year out or no, you know, even six months out. So it's kind of. It's just a different mindset mentality that.

B (4:49)

In the. In the income flow. So that was an adjustment too, because I did like quarterly payments, so I would always have some kind of income coming in.

A (4:58)

So that's.

B (4:59)

That's been, you know, me just pivoting. I'm going to use that word, and just finding how else I can keep that revenue stream alive.

A (5:07)

Yeah, and we're going to hear all about that. I want to back up a little bit though, because something I know about you is back in 2020, you were laid off from like a 9 to 5, right?

B (5:16)

Yeah, I felt like it was a 24 to 7. So I started out in it in. Oh, God, I'm going to date myself, I think 2000s. In the 2000s. And I. I never went to school for it. I was really proud of myself. You know, women in the IT industry are a rare breed still, unfortunately. And I just went up through the ranks and I ended up working for Catholic Health Organization that was based out of Michigan, actually out of Laconia. Trinity Health of New England. I'm going to throw them out there. Trinity. Yep.

A (5:55)

Oh, that's funny. We use Trinity sometimes for our kids.

B (5:59)

Yeah, great. Great company. They merged with Kappa Caltheast, which was local here. And in 2020, a lot of their elective surgeries couldn't be done. And they laid off 1100 people. It was crazy. And I was like, I'm fine. I'm fine. I've been here 19 years. I'm fine. They like furloughed me for like three months. And then I got like this email, like, hey, you're gonna have a meeting with so and so. And I knew that it was my last day. And I think for me, like, I'm getting emotional talking about it. It was such a release because I'm gonna bring up Sue Bryce because she has been so instrumental in my growth that I have. I have so many stickies on my window, like post its. And one of them was self employment. And they laid me off that day. I was like, there it is. That is what I've been waiting for. The push that I needed, right, to like, do what I wanted to do because I was making really good money in it. And you know, the side hustle was great. Cause it like funded my vacations and, you know, all my equipment and, you know, buying all the things. But when kind of that door closed, another one opened. And I do have this story where my Husband's always been supportive. He's always kind of called it a hobby. But the day I got laid off, it was the first time I heard him say, now you can do your dream job.

A (7:38)

Oh, wow.

B (7:39)

And I was like, finally. So. So, you know, he's been there from the beginning. I come from a family of no one owning their own businesses.

A (7:49)

Same.

B (7:50)

Has it been hard for you? Like, in the beginning I was like, I can do this. No, you need a full time job. And I'm like, this is a full time job.

A (7:59)

What are you talking about? Tiffany, if my dad had still been alive when I decided to quit this stable school, social worker job with a pension and all of that, he. He would have lost his mind. And I often think about if I would have had him in my ear. Okay, no, I know myself and I know I would have continued to move forward and been like, whatever, dad. Because that's what I always did whenever he didn't like a decision I was making. But yeah, I think it would have. I would have had a lot more pressure. It would have been a lot harder. I would have. I think he would have put the fear in me more. Not because he necessarily think I could do it. It's just not what he knew. And he knew that you get a college degree and you, you know, get a career and that's what you do.

B (8:44)

Yeah.

A (8:45)

You know, and. Yeah.

B (8:47)

So, yeah. And it's always that when they say the cart before the horse kind of thing. You know what I mean? Like, I feel like for me, I. I really loved what I was doing. And I. I drank Sue Brights's Kool Aid. Your Kool Aid. All the Kool Aid. Because I started to see myself differently. And I do come from a family of artists, but never photography. It was always painting. So I was always like, well, I guess I am kind of painting with photography, but as you can tell, I like to talk a lot. And I think that really brings a lot to the table when you are starting a business.

A (9:29)

Absolutely. Well, so back in 2020, when this happened, did you feel prepared? Like, okay, you knew you were gonna take this as a silver lining, you're losing the job. But like you said, another door opened. Were you prepared? Did you already have. Okay, I was gonna say some people, when they quit their 9 to 5, they're already like super prepared, ready to go, and some people just wing it. So where, where were you at on that spectrum?

B (9:57)

I will say they did give me, you know, a pension. Not a pension. What do you call that? Oh, my God, I can't even think of it.

A (10:04)

I know. I can't think of it either, but yes, yes, whatever. Whatever.

B (10:09)

They gave me a little cushion. Yeah, they gave me a little cushion, but it wasn't enough, Nikki, you know, severance, Severance. Thank you. Thank you. And that severance went to a new garage. I wasn't really smart with the money, and I wasn't really thinking that things were going to kind of be tough. And it's taken me about four years. Literally last year was when I started to really get my head back into the game, business wise, and be like, all right, Tiff, your money issues, you've talked about this on many podcasts and sue has all the money talks out there, but I have really bad money issues, and I. I think that's why I got the garage. Like, that's more important than, you know, building.

A (10:56)

Yeah, you're not alone. You're not alone in this.

B (10:59)

Yeah, I know. And it makes me feel good that I'm not out on the island by myself. But at the same time, I had a really hard wake up call last year where my business coach, who was one of my clients, which, this is why I love what I do, we just decided that if I didn't have this certain number by the end of the year, I needed to fold the business.

A (11:22)

Wow, that'll. That'll light a little fire under you.

B (11:27)

Most definitely.

A (11:28)

So do you think that was that having that pressure was, you know, the thing that ultimately made you have a profitable business or, like. I'm sure, I mean, I'm sure the pressure helped, but what changes did you make? I guess, in order to make this sustainable.

B (11:43)

Gosh, just really looking at my numbers and, like, my overhead costs and, And I cutting back on all the things. Right? Like, is this. Can you sue again? Is this going to make my ships, you know, sail kind of thing?

A (11:57)

For sure.

B (11:58)

And I. I feel like as soon as I started curbing the spending, like, the unnecessary spending, it started to make the income come in a little bit. Like, I wasn't resentful towards the income anymore. Like, oh, they only pay me this much kind of thing, because that's how I was feeling. And it's really bad to have that relationship. And I, I love my coach. She. She has definitely given me some great tools, like shopping at Aldi instead of big Y kind of thing. And people in New England, if you don't. Or out of New England, they don't know what I'm talking about. They know what I mean. And just little things like Tiff, people already have clothes. You do not need to buy them.

A (12:39)

Yes.

B (12:39)

And that was really hard. That was something that. I'm a shopaholic and I love clothes. So whenever I bought something that was really for the studio.

A (12:48)

Yeah, this is really important, that whole. I know I bring this up a lot, but in the portrait system, in our membership, we have a pricing calculator, and it can be so eye opening. You input all of your costs, including everything. Insurance, website cost, you know, studio overhead, you know, all of it, and then you put in how much money you want to make at the end of the year, how many shoots you want to do per month, and then it all averages out and it spits out what it gives you, you know, advice on what your small, medium, and large packages need to be in order to, you know, make a certain amount of money or whatever. And doing that is so eye opening. Like, I used to spend. Gosh, I think the most expensive studio I had was like 2600amonth. Now, granted, I shared that with a makeup artist, but I was. She was paying less than half I was paying, so I think I was paying like 1600amonth. And when I was looking at my overhead, I was like, okay, I love this studio, but do I really need to spend 1600? Like, in some places, that's, like, you know, rent for your house or, you know, part of your mortgage. Like, that's a lot of money every month. And I ended up downsizing, and we found a studio for like 500amonth, which I know is kind of unheard of in a lot of areas. I got super lucky. But there are ways to curb your spending. Like you said, not feeling like you have to get the wardrobe. And I know some. In. In some services that people offer, it's, you know, you need it, but if you don't, like, I've been shooting on the same old lenses for 10 years. Like, you know what I mean? You don't need the crazy expensive stuff. And like, you said, like, start. Yeah. Even just where you shop and that sort of thing. It's. It really does all add up.

B (14:37)

It does. It does. I did make kind of a splurge purchase with her approval last year because I really needed to get to Mirrorless because my Canon Mark 4 was dying.

A (14:49)

Yeah, I did this thing. I got this.

B (14:51)

Did you? Yeah.

A (14:52)

What'd you get?

B (14:53)

I switched to Nikon.

A (14:54)

Oh, did you? I love Nikon. Yeah, they're all good.

B (14:57)

I love it.

A (14:58)

Sony, Nikon, they're all great.

B (15:01)

I know. I just. I needed something A little more ergonomic, obviously. And I. I got the D6, too. And I didn't get the 3 because I was like, I'm just gonna start off small and see if I can get, you know, to that. And I had a fellow wedding photographer, because I did second shoot last year, which I'm trying not to this year, but he let me borrow it through three or four weddings. And I was like, I love this camera. Like, I'm. I'm gonna. I'm gonna sell mine.

A (15:28)

That's awesome.

B (15:28)

So, yeah, so that was a big expense, but at the same time, I'm like, it's. It's needed. That's a tool you really do need, obviously. And I know that you've had yours for a while, but.

A (15:40)

Oh, I have my eye on the Fuji, though, Tiffany. I'll tell you why. Yep, I had my. This other photographer was assisting me on this huge headshot gig that I have, and during downtime, she was editing and she was showing me a shoot, and I was like, what are you shooting with? Because I just loved the depth of field and the, you know, in the color tones and the dynamic range. And I was like, what is this? And she's like, oh, my gosh, Nikki. I borrowed a Fuji to do so second shoot a wedding because they wanted it to be the same, you know, color, like, everything the same. And she was like, I fell in love. And I was like, yeah, I think I'm gonna need to try one. So I've given myself a goal for the end of 2025. If I, you know, reach certain numbers, I'm gonna get myself a Fuji.

B (16:26)

Yeah, I've heard great things about Fujis, for sure.

A (16:29)

Yeah. Okay. Anyway, so you curbed your spending. You really took a look at your numbers.

B (16:35)

Yeah.

A (16:36)

And then. But how did you end up getting more clients? Or did you have the same number of clients you just curbed your spending?

B (16:42)

Well, I will say in 2020, I'm going to back up just a little bit, too. I flourished with personal branding because nobody could. How do I say this? So many people quit their corporate jobs and started their own businesses. There's. You should read some of the reports out there, and I'm sure you've heard this, but. Yeah, I had so many people, I probably had 40 personal branding clients between 2020 and 2021. And you wouldn't think that that would be the case, but it was crazy, and I loved it. And a lot of real estate agents, too.

A (17:17)

Yes.

B (17:18)

We're out there needing that. Personal branding or just headshots so you know, that adopt as. As you can probably attest those referrals, the people. I don't know if it was sue or. Or another person that I got a mentoring from, but it's that the chain, right? It's like the family tree kind of thing where, like, this client, you got this person and then that person did this and blah, blah, blah. And I love the connection because everyone knows somebody that I photographed, like, oh, you did her. It just happened to me today. She's like, I didn't even know you did her. Headshots kind of. You know what I mean? So I'm hoping someday that will change. And people like, oh, that's Tiffany's photos.

A (18:01)

It will. Trust me, because it happens. It started happening to me and now it's like, yeah, people will say, as soon as I saw the photo, I knew it was yours. And I was like, yes, no, it will happen. But you're right, statistically, there is. Sue and I talk about this quite a bit. There are massive number of people who are walking away from whatever job that they had before and starting their own business. And everyone needs marketing and headshots. And I mean, I love personal branding for a million reasons. I talk about it all the time. I obviously have a course on it because I love it so much. I want other people to do it. As soon as I find out something that I really love, whether it's a new clean makeup item or, you know, a food product that I like, want everyone to have it and share, and everyone's just, you know, people probably get sick of me, but, you know, pushing what I love on them. But that's how I feel about personal branding. Because, like, if you think about it, Tiffany, you don't have to work weekends, you don't have to work evenings. You're helping other entrepreneurs, and there is such a need for it. It's not a want for these people. It is a need.

B (19:04)

Yes. And right before I got on the podcast, actually had a consultation call for a personal branding session for a wellness company. And it's my third wellness company, and I don't know, they don't even know each other, but she found me and she was like, I just need to be seen on the Pilates mat, on my reformer, Pilates, in my yoga mat. And she's a therapist, so, like, I. There's just all this, like, amazing entrepreneurs out there that. And she knows she needs to be seen. And she was like, I just had headshots done, and I'm not happy because it doesn't show the authentic self. And my space wasn't open, so I love going to their spaces too. I feel like that's. That's that personal branding that you really want to give them because they'll continue to use it. And they're also asking for B rolls. So I don't know if I told you this. Both my children are videographers. Both have that. Both of them have taken pictures of me, portraits that I love. And, you know, one of them started his own business with me last year because he was like, my mom inspires me. I'm gonna start my own business. And he's. He's still doing it, but he. You know what? I guess what I'm trying to say is I'm able to bring him in on those requests because he can do the B roll, so that's kind of fun. Yeah.

A (20:31)

How cool is that? So you were saying B roll. Is that something that you have him do?

B (20:35)

Yes. So, honestly, he only has his iPhone 16, which is insane for video. I don't know if you've used it or you have it.

A (20:43)

I have not. Again, I curve my spending, and I still have the 14.

B (20:49)

I literally just upgraded from the 13. So, you know, you're okay, you're okay. You're not that far behind. But he's been using that, and so is my other son. And the quality is great. You know, it's. It's good enough, right?

A (21:03)

Yeah.

B (21:04)

It's not commercial ready. Right. But for Instagram and TikTok and Facebook and some website links, it's great. It works. You know, a lot of these small businesses are on budgets, you know, so they can't afford the. You know, with nice equipment comes bigger costs. So in some respect, you know, especially for video, I think.

A (21:29)

Let's talk a little bit about. I want to. I still have so many questions for you. Okay. So personal branding and headshots, something that we were talking about before we started recording that you've kind of got this, like, nickname, the queen of headshots in your area. So let's talk a little bit about marketing. I know you said that you happen to know a lot of people and, you know, who talked about you or whatever, but is there anything you can share about the way you've been able to bring clients in and how you've gotten your name out there, other than just happening to know people?

B (22:02)

The networking queen also is what I've been called. I joined, like, three chambers. Yes. They're not always going to be fruitful for everybody. Right. But it's showing up for those people and becoming friendly with them and just not always, you know, shoving a business card in their face at those network meetups, but just them seeing you. So I think you had said this to me or you had talked about this, like, it takes. It takes how many times for people to, like, see you, to, like, let it register.

A (22:34)

Yeah.

B (22:35)

You know, and really just being out there and that people person. And also the one thing that I did do, I think it was back in 21, I started a project for women in business, and it really got my name out there locally in, like, my small town, and I highlighted women in business, and I took pictures of them. It was called the Resilient Project. I loved it. We had a great time. It ran for about two, three months, and then it kind of flourished into something else. And I kind of just let the baby go. But it really just showed me, like, these people literally are down the street from each other. Been in business 15 years and never met. So it just shows you, like, you need to get out there more and be seen as a business owner, regardless. If you're, like, a recluse and you're like, I don't want to go to a networking event, trust me, I was very shy as a child. This business has put me into, like, social butterfly mode. Yeah. I have to survive, right, Nikki? It's like, you survive and you have to thrive.

A (23:42)

Yeah. Networking is. It's huge. And I know sometimes people don't want to hear that, but it is. And you brought up a good point that you do have to show your face. People have to hear the same thing over and over again. And even though photos are a need for people, I'm sure you can agree most people do not like having their photo taken. They will avoid it at all costs.

B (24:05)

No.

A (24:06)

So we have to help them understand why they need it. We have to help them understand that these photos will book them more clients and make them more money because their marketing will be better. They'll show up more on social media. I use these. This language all the time in my marketing over and over and over. And eventually, you know, I've had clients who weren't ready, weren't ready, weren't ready. And then two, three years later, they're like, okay, I'm ready.

B (24:30)

Yeah. Yep. So totally. And that. And I think that's. It is. It's really hard to convey that message, no matter how much you market. Right. Until they're in that studio space in front of your lens. And I will say that I. I love what I do, but I also know that people are super uncomfortable in front of the camera regardless. You and I are probably. You know, I'm. I've done how many shoots and so have you, so it's not just, you know, normal people or photographers feel it too. But I feel like, for me, I really want people to feel like they can trust me. And in order to do that, I talk more than I shoot. I know that sounds really silly, but literally had a headshot two days ago, and we probably talked 35 minutes, and I maybe shot her for 10 minutes, photographed her for 10 minutes, and we had so much in common. And I think that that's what really brings that relationship forward. She was a president of one of the colleges out in Boston, and she was like, do you travel? And I was like, yeah, take my stuff on the road. Let's go. Because I got that rapport with her, right? And she texted me this morning. She's like, I'm floored by the images. Like, I never thought I could look this good. And I want to tell you, the last thing she told me, which I had tears my eyes. Sometimes these people are, like, really real. She goes, I lost 15 pounds. And I was like, wow, great how you do it. You know, it's wonderful. And she's. And she didn't say anything? No. We did our shoot, and she's looking at her pictures later because I do same day reveals on my mini sessions, and she's like, oh, I look a little heavy in this one. I'm like, what are you talking about? You just lost 15 pounds. You look amazing. I'm like, how you do it? You know? I asked her again. She goes, it was you. And I went, what? She goes, you're my diet plan. I lost weight because I knew I had three months to come in here, and I lost £15 because of you.

A (26:31)

Wow.

B (26:32)

I was like.

A (26:36)

Feels better. I mean. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

B (26:39)

And I was like, all right. Is that one of my new, like, out there? My. My. My marketing slang. I will help you lose weight. If I can be that motivational for somebody. Wow. My job's done before they even walk in, right?

A (26:59)

Yeah. Wow, that's amazing. Okay, so networking is a huge part of it, obviously. Is there anything else? You know? Yeah, obviously, word spreads and you're getting referrals and, you know, getting out there and networking groups. Is there anything else that has really contributed or has it really just been that?

B (27:19)

I mean, I'm pretty active on social. I. I will say I was. I wear all the hats.

A (27:24)

Yeah.

B (27:24)

I only hired a virtual assistant for maybe six months, and she helped me with my CRM. I couldn't let the website and my marketing go to her. It's too personal. I don't know. I just. I couldn't do it. And I just. I love design. I really like Dove in deep with Canva. And, you know, there's some tools out there that really help you not feel, you know, now that we got ChatGPT, you can just be like, all right, I want to talk about this. And there you go. You can tweak it a little bit, but there's so many tools out there to help you be the person you want to be authentically. Right.

A (28:02)

Hey, just a quick break to tell you that since you're here listening, you have access to a really great offer for our listeners only. We have a special promo code you can use to get 50% off the cost of membership. Just go to theportraitsystem.com or click the link in the description and use the promo code PODCAST50 to get 50% off of a membership. We rarely discount membership, so this is a big deal. As I hope you already know. The membership is how I and so many guests on this podcast reached our success, and it gives you access to countless amazing videos and awesome community and all the tools you need to build a massively successful business. So use the code podcast50Now to join the community and to start building the business of your dreams. I'll see you there. Your website is really, really beautiful.

B (28:51)

Thank you.

A (28:52)

It's so well done. And your photos are amazing. The messaging in it is great. It's clean and fresh. Just the structure of it. I mean, it would make me want to book branding photos with you. It's very clear about what you do. Yeah, it's really great.

B (29:11)

I wanted it to appeal to me, right? Like, if I was that like you just said, and I'll be really honest, I did it all myself. It's the geek in me never will die. You know, all those years of, like, having to be resourceful and figure out a troubleshooting problem because it's three in the morning and, you know, some medical systems need to be back up. I spent like. Oh, my God, I spent like, nine days on that. And then.

A (29:37)

Yeah, that's it. Wow. What do you use? Is it, like, show it.

B (29:42)

It's squarespace.

A (29:43)

Yeah.

B (29:44)

And. And I will tell you, Nikki, I have two domains, and I. I'm. I'm kind of regretting this right now because at one point, squarespace was. I'm just going to talk about this really quick. Squarespace had two different versions out there, and the newer version was insanely awesome. And it was just like plug and play, and it was just super easy to navigate. And I was like, oh, my God, I'm just going to start building landing pages on this new domain. And that's what I was doing for, like, my 50 and fabulous projects that I was doing. I was doing maternity call model calls, I was doing beauty model calls, and it just seemed easier for me to do that. But now I'm on the new version on the. On the tiffanychapmanphotography.com and I'm still tweaking it. It's definitely got some little bit of hiccups in there, but I use some of the links in there to drive over to my other domain. And I was just reading today how bad that is for your SEO, so.

A (30:44)

I'm like, if I have to move.

B (30:46)

Everything over, you know what I mean? So it's constant. You have to keep that fresh, you know? And thank you for your compliment. I get that a lot. And it. It made me feel good. I was like, wow, I put so much work into this, and I really wanted people to have that ease when they get in there, like, easy to navigate, like you said. And, like, how do you get a hold of me? Because there are a lot of websites out there that are like, where's. Where are they located? Are they in Massachusetts? Are they in Vermont? Or what's their phone number? What's their email?

A (31:18)

Well, even on Instagram, there are times when someone comments, for example, on my, you know, on one of my things and I want to use their first name when I'm responding or if they send me a message or something and I'll click on their profile to see what the first name is, because maybe it's not in their, you know, their username and it doesn't even say their first name.

B (31:37)

I know it's.

A (31:38)

And I'm like, oh, man, you gotta put your first name there. People need to know who you are.

B (31:43)

Yes.

A (31:44)

So just little oversights like that can make a big difference.

B (31:47)

Yes, Yep. And thank you. I think that websites are. They're your storefront.

A (31:53)

Right, Exactly.

B (31:54)

You know, it's the first thing people see. And you've got, what, seven seconds to make a first impression.

A (32:00)

I think it's less than that. I feel like, with this, like, give it, gimme, gimme, gimme. Now, now, now. Life that we live in, unfortunately, it is like, it's like, two seconds or something. Something crazy like that.

B (32:12)

Oh, that's so crazy.

A (32:13)

And someone goes on your website, and it's not clear immediately. Like, when I first go to your page, there's this super cute, smiling photo of you. It says, hey, so glad you stopped by. Book your session right here. Connecticut and Massachusetts photographer. When I scroll down just a tiny bit, I see lots of great personal branding photos. I see diversity. I see everything that you do is right there, and it's so obvious what it is that you do, and it's really, really cool.

B (32:46)

Thank you.

A (32:47)

Okay, I want to move on to the types of sessions that you offer, because I know you have here on your website where people can do full personal branding sessions, and then you also offer some, like, mini headshot type sessions. So walk us through. Start with your full personal branding sessions, what they are, what they include, all that good stuff.

B (33:07)

Yeah. I like to do them in the studio, most of them, But I've been like, I just told you, I've been venturing out. So they do include wardrobe and styling consultation. I said earlier how I was purchasing clothing. It wasn't just, like, pretty fancy dresses. I was buying, like, business stuff. And I had a stylist come in, and she literally looked at me. She goes, people can buy their own clothes. She, like, started throwing everything on the floor. I love her. I love her, Carolyn. Everything on the floor. She's like, get rid of all this. This does not. You can sell this. And I did. I gave some away, too. But I think the wardrobe and styling console for personal branding is so important. And bringing in a stylist, yes, is. Is an added cost, but that's just as important. I did offer that for a while, and it's a luxury service. Right. I want to be looked at as luxury because it's nice. It's kind of like getting a glass of champagne when you go shopping, you know, kind of thing. And it helps people hone in on their vision of what their product is about and what they want for their day of photos. Right. It also. I think it helps people just see their esthetic, you know, because some come in, they're like, I have no idea what. What my colors are. I don't know.

A (34:32)

Right.

B (34:32)

And I always say bring in as much as possible. So I do invite people to come into the studio space, and I do have a few pieces left that they could try on or, you know, lately I've been doing zoom because a lot of my clients are traveling two hours to come to me.

A (34:48)

Yeah.

B (34:49)

So I'm like, let's zoom in your closet. And that's fun. It's definitely. Some people still bring more than I saw in the zoom, which is totally fine. Sometimes it's overwhelming for me because I love clothes.

A (35:04)

I know. Suitcases, like. Yes, me too.

B (35:09)

Of shoes.

A (35:11)

Yes, the shoes. Yep. Yep. Which I would rather someone bring too much than not enough. And I straight up tell them that, like, bring everything if you want, and I will. While they're in hair and makeup, that's when I go through and select everything. I have a whole section on this in my. In the personal branding system course, where I'm. I'm walking through, why I'm picking each outfit, how I'm matching it up with the background, because they don't know. And. And sometimes I think people think certain clothes will look great, and then you know that it's not. It's going to make them look boxy or wider than they are or, like, maybe the color isn't great for them, you know? So, yeah, it's. It's. It can be overwhelming when they bring so much.

B (35:53)

Yeah.

A (35:54)

And that's when I tend to overshoot. Like, I'll shoot, like, eight outfits or something, because I'm like, oh. But then I sell more photos.

B (36:00)

I was just gonna say options. You know, more clothing means more options. More. More sales.

A (36:06)

Yeah, exactly.

B (36:08)

And. And then I usually do that about a week or two before their session, so they have time to purchase something that they want, and then they come into the studio space, and they are included in my sessions are professional hair and makeup. And I really like to tell people, like, hey, if you're not a makeup wearer, don't worry. Like, I have five artists that I kind of rotate through, which is great. They're all different, quick, fast, all talented kind of thing.

A (36:36)

That's awesome.

B (36:37)

And I'd never had that in the beginning, though, Nikki, I will tell you that that was a struggle to find somebody that you could trust with hair and makeup, because, remember, and all my portrait friends out there, including yourself, if they don't like their hair and makeup, they're not gonna like the photos. Right.

A (36:54)

Every time that I have had to redo a shoot, which hasn't been very often, I'd say in my whole career, it's been like, God, maybe only two or three, but both times. Well, I'm trying to think two or three. Anyways. Every time it was due to hair and makeup.

B (37:09)

Mm.

A (37:10)

Yeah. So I started doing. I think sue taught me this, actually, where I will pull the client aside without the makeup. Artist present. And I'll say, okay, what do you wanna change? And I'll also say when I'm introducing them, I'll say, you know, this is Megan. She's gonna do your hair and makeup. She's been doing this forever and her feelings will not be hurt if you wanna change something. And Megan's like, trust me, it is totally fine. I just want to make sure you love how you look. So please, please, please speak up. Like, we make it very easy and comfortable for someone to want to change something.

B (37:45)

Same here. We just say honesty. You know, go to the bathroom, look in your pants. Go look and see. And we always, whenever they come back in, most of the time they have to go to the bathroom. We're always like, what do you want to change? And you know, we can do it. There's no holding back there. And I feel like, again, you have to be happy with the way that you look. I also tell people, like, if you're super picky about your hair, do it yourself.

A (38:09)

Totally.

B (38:11)

Like, I don't. I can't guarantee I am not a full service salon.

A (38:16)

Right, right.

B (38:17)

And I hate sounding that way. It sounds a little bitchy. But I just, I want people to know that I had one client come in. I'm just going to add this. That came in with hair extensions to put in her hair. Oh, I was floored. So that's been a lesson. That was a lesson that I was like, that's never happening again. We do not put in hair extensions.

A (38:39)

Yeah.

B (38:39)

And it was a lot. It wasn't just like, you know, like, those halos. Wasn't even that. It was clip in. It was.

A (38:45)

Yeah. No, that. That eats into my studio rental time because I rent this studio by the hour.

B (38:51)

Oh, you do? Okay.

A (38:53)

Yeah.

B (38:53)

Okay.

A (38:54)

So, yeah, no, that's. That's really interesting. I should put that in my, like, what you should kind of thing. Like if you.

B (38:59)

You definitely should. I. I will stream that from rooftops. Put that in your, you know, kind of the tips and tricks. Because I do, I do give people a lot of information, kind of like you do. And I love your personal branding course. It definitely. If anyone does not have that, it's. And you want to adventure into this particular genre. It's. It's a great way to just get all the things. I actually have your presets too, by the way, that I use all the time.

A (39:29)

Came out with lightroom brushes too. It's so funny because I was like sitting there and like, I don't think people realize what lightroom can do these days. Do you use, like, I mean, I know you obviously have the presets.

B (39:41)

Yeah.

A (39:41)

Lightroom is insane.

B (39:42)

Yeah.

A (39:43)

Do you use the masking brushes?

B (39:45)

Oh, yeah, they're great. They are so happy.

A (39:48)

Game changer.

B (39:49)

I know. Especially if you're like, I really want my background to be white. Oh, okay.

A (39:54)

Yeah. But even for, like, because, oh, gosh, I, you know, I used to outsource, and I still do sometimes. Yeah. But now that I use these brushes, like, softening skin and dark circles under eyes and brightening eyes and whitening teeth and all of that, I can do it so fast now because of these brushes that I am, like, obsessed. It's cut down on how much I outsource and how much time I spend.

B (40:15)

I know. And. And I love that you kind of, you know, subsided a little bit with outsourcing, but that was the one biggest thing that I couldn't let go for a really long time. But now that I have, I don't want to do editing anymore.

A (40:29)

Yeah. Yeah, it's.

B (40:31)

It's a game changer for me. I get so much more of my time back, and it's the turnaround. Like, literally, I'm like, I. I photographed you on Tuesday. You get your pictures Wednesday, fully edited. I mean, I don't want to go back.

A (40:45)

Honestly, one of the reasons that I started doing a lot of it on my own, which is what, like, inspired me to create these Life Lightroom brushes that I was just using for myself for a long time, you know, before I started selling them, is that my retoucher now has a two week turnaround time. I told too many people about her, and now she's just slammed, oh, my gosh. And I'm like, I can't wait two weeks. You know, that's like, I want to have these photos in my client's hands within, like, a week to 10 days.

B (41:13)

Yeah.

A (41:14)

Oh, and I just haven't, you know, found another retoucher yet. I just, you know, so I've just been doing it on my own, which. And granted, I only do, you know, because I do the podcast and I have, you know, my education and I do, you know, whatever. I work with sue, and I only do like three to four shoots a month now where I was doing eight to ten, so it's so much more manageable. But if it's a full time thing, like hiring a retoucher. Oh, my gosh. And just using products that make your ship go faster is so important.

B (41:41)

Yes. Yes. It's given me peace, I will say, because I want people to be happy and they're so much more happier when they still have that feeling coming out of their session. Like, oh my God, I got to pick my photos today. I only do that in the mini sessions.

A (41:57)

Well, you had said. Okay, so. Okay, let's keep moving because I still have so much I want to ask you. Forever. So they get hair and makeup and then you do the shoot. You do a lot of talking. I know you said, and making them feel comfortable and that sort of thing. And then what are your packages for?

B (42:14)

Personal branding. I only do digitals obviously, because I really, as I've, you know, kind of evolved, you know, with, with businesses, I found that there was just a need for that. They don't need prints before I used to print. Even if they were personal branding, don't even get me started about that. But my packages are, I believe I did silver, gold and platinum. And my silver is eight images. My gold is 16 and then my platinum is 25. And I will say with personal branding, they're between 16 and 25 because they need like content like website, LinkedIn, Instagram, TikTok with the threads. Now Twitter, you know, there's just all the things and some people really want to post like two or three times a week. And my packages, I just raised my pricing this year. Knocking on wood. I booked one person already at it. So like it's February. You're okay, Tiff. You know, you know how it is like when you just raise it. I didn't go bonkers. I. I really didn't. But it's still just a little bit. I'm like holding my breath. Yeah, don't be afraid though. Like, I do feel like the fear is what's going to hold you back.

A (43:30)

Totally.

B (43:31)

You know, I learned that the hard way. So I think feeling that self worth inside is so important. And listening to like Sue's self talk and self love and self care and all those talks out there really shifted my mindset and you know, having the coach and also having people like you in my world and I also have so many people that I met in 2021 with the shootout that we did and I'm sorry, I'm going down a rabbit hole.

A (44:02)

No, that's okay.

B (44:03)

That have really just been my anchors in some respect and I can give shout outs but I, they know who I'm talking about because they've just been there. You know, I'm like, hey, I have this corporate headshot shoot and I don't, you know, I'm getting surgery and Somebody's always in my corner helping me, which I love about this corporation community.

A (44:25)

I know. It's the best. Are you going to wppi, by the way?

B (44:28)

I am not.

A (44:28)

I never getting your surgery. Oh, you haven't. Oh, it's so fun. And Tiffany, I really, I was like.

B (44:35)

I was looking at it and I was like, oh my gosh. I actually already still have FOMO from Felix's trip to Nam because I've been wanting to go and you know, Felix and I are good friends and he's just amazing. He's taught me so much too. And no one knows what I'm talking about. Felix has a lighting education course out there. Yeah, it's simple and it's a no brainer. And I was that natural light photographer for a very long time and now I feel more comfortable with strobes.

A (45:07)

So, yep, he's the guy to learn from. That's for sure.

B (45:10)

Yes, for sure.

A (45:12)

Okay, so you have your packages. How much do they cost?

B (45:15)

The 8 package is 21.90 and then the 16 package is. Oh my God, I just changed all my prices. It's 38.90. And then my platinum is 44.90.

A (45:28)

Okay, cool. Before, before you change them, do you know what your average sale was?

B (45:34)

It was 1800.

A (45:36)

Oh, nice. That's awesome. Good deal.

B (45:38)

Yeah.

A (45:39)

Okay. And then you have mini headshot stuff. Tell us about that.

B (45:43)

Yeah, I raised the price on that too. I've been doing them once a month, but I've been getting sneaks, you know, like little people. Like, hey, I can't do it on the date that you have scheduled. Can I just come in? So those are 475 for two digitals, 30 minutes, three outfits, no hair and makeup. Now I know that I'm, I'm a little high because I've seen people out there and I'm, you know, it's okay. That offer hair and makeup in there. And I'm like, that's just not.

A (46:11)

No. Then you're doing it for like 200 plus. And that's no.

B (46:15)

Thank you, thank you, thank you. Out of my own head for that one for sure. And a lot of people are like, oh, 150 bucks to do hair and makeup. Yes. And then before I know it, you know, I do. I also do a buy to get one free special where you can buy two more digitals and they walk away with five, which is perfect for a mini session. Right. And maybe $1,000 for one person.

A (46:41)

Yep. For half an hour. Right?

B (46:43)

Yeah. Because I Get them same day revealed. That's the other thing I wanted to mention is people love that. Like, absolutely. I'm going to sit here and just pick out my favorites. And we do. We kind of do that transition where you're like, all right, let's do, you know, over pick, second round. And I think that they love that because it's like, it lets them have that control, because a lot of people say that, too. They don't want to show their. I would say photographers say this. They don't want to show their raw. And I'm like, why not? Who cares? Like, you know, most. I hate to sound kind of blase about it, but it does take a little bit to get used to. But at the same time, most clients don't know your mistakes.

A (47:26)

Yeah, totally. Totally. They have no idea. Yeah.

B (47:31)

Yeah. So that was my biggest, biggest revenue generator last year, was headshots and headshot minis.

A (47:39)

Awesome. Well, this is exciting. So here you are, you know, five years into or four and a half years into when you got laid off and doing pretty awesome. That's. That's very cool. I'm excited.

B (47:52)

I am, I am. And I. I think I meant to mention before we started recording that I also knew that, like, my revenue stream needed to kind of bump up a little bit. And whenever that happens, I kind of feel like I need to do model calls. So I've done a maternity monocall. I've done a beauty model call, and recently I introduced a boudoir model call. Huge success. I limited it to 10 people. I think I have three people left. But what that's allowing you to do, especially if you're kind of just starting out, too, is building your portfolio. Not that I don't have a portfolio, but I wasn't always, like, focused primarily on boudoir, so I really wanted to broaden that piece of my genre, and it's been really great.

A (48:42)

I know. That's what I always say, too, is when. If you want to add a genre or something, you got to get beautiful photos, Do a monocall like you said. Do some fun reshoots, or maybe not even, you know, they could pay for hair and makeup or that sort of thing, but anything to boost that portfolio and get it up, you know. Yes to professional. Yeah, yeah.

B (49:01)

And then the over 50 and fabulous. This is my third year running that. And that's been a lot of fun, too. And just I'm over 50, so it's been fun to meet women my age. And I'll commiserate. We commiserate for sure.

A (49:14)

So that's great. Okay, so it sounds like mostly personal branding, but you also kind of supplement with some boudoir, some 50 over fabulous like that sort of thing. Maternity.

B (49:23)

Yeah.

A (49:24)

Awesome. Y. Cool. Well, thank you for sharing all this. This is really great.

B (49:29)

Welcome.

A (49:29)

I hope your surgery goes well. This is, you know, another reason that it's important to be prepared if things happen. I'm going through some tendonitis in my right hand. I'm left handed, but I use my right hand for. I only eat and write with my left hand and I pretty much use my right hand for everything else. And it's a, you know, your hand is, you know, but especially with the profession that we do and it's, you know, having that safety net is very important if something comes up. So.

B (50:00)

Yeah, I agree. I'm sorry to interrupt you, but I. I've been suffering for two years. Cortisone shots. And they worked. You know, some people are just, they wait too long and they don't work. So I, I moved to it. And this is a other thing. You have to take care of yourself because you're never going to be good enough for your client if you're suffering. It just all flows downhill. Obviously, we know this self care, self love comes first because as a business owner, we tend to just put our head down and grind. Right.

A (50:32)

Yeah.

B (50:32)

I just did a post about that today and I feel like I needed to find a doctor that wanted to help me. You know, don't stay stagnant when you're feeling like you're not getting the love from, you know, healthcare because you're your own best advocate, right?

A (50:49)

Oh, absolutely.

B (50:50)

And so, yeah, I'm definitely preparing for a little downtime. I don't. I'm gonna go a little stir crazy. I'm sure.

A (50:56)

Well, enjoy it. Enjoy it. Thank you.

B (50:59)

Thank you.

A (50:59)

Not often that we get downtime.

B (51:01)

No, not at all.

A (51:02)

All right, well, I do have four questions that I always ask at the end of each episode. And the first one is, what is something you can't live without when you're doing a photo shoot?

B (51:11)

Music and conversation. Like I said, people personally love to talk and I, I think that that is really my superpower that brings that authentic portrait out of people. And I love to hear people say, oh, I didn't think I'd like any of these photos.

A (51:31)

But they do.

B (51:33)

They do. I mean, it's kind of a backwards compliment, right?

A (51:37)

Yeah.

B (51:38)

With a grain of salt.

A (51:39)

Yeah, that's happened to me before too. That's funny. All Right. Number two is how do you spend your time when you're not working?

B (51:47)

Oh, I love to go to country western concerts. I. I just. I love country music. I went to 6 last year.

A (51:57)

Heck, yeah.

B (51:58)

I'm like, all about it. I was that person in the queue on the Morgan Wallen tickets that went out Massachusetts, and I was 83,000 people in front of me, and I was like, I've never done this before. What do I do? What do I do?

A (52:12)

What do I do? So funny.

B (52:13)

And I was getting them for my niece for her 16th birthday. Her and I are the go. And she was, like, freaking out that I even got tickets.

A (52:21)

He's not anywhere near us. You got him, though. You got the tickets, you said?

B (52:26)

Yep. I got nosebleeds for $200.

A (52:28)

Oh, my gosh. Awesome. I've been to his shows a couple times. It's so funny because if you would have told me, you know, six, seven years ago that I was gonna listen to country music, I would have laughed in your face. And now I am, like, full blown country music all day, all the time. It is hilarious. Like, never would have expected this. And I love it.

B (52:49)

Yeah, me too. Me too. I booked Lainey Wilson and Zach Brown.

A (52:55)

Awesome. I just saw them. We used to have. Oh, gosh, sorry, listeners, if this is boring, but we used to have this country music festival called Faster Horses. And it was like 10 minute drive from our lake house. And we had friends who had, like, a minibus that they would drive back and forth and, well, they would spend the night in the minibus. We would go back. We. Okay, we hired a designated driver who would pick us up at the festival every night. We'd get to sleep in our own bed, and we would just go back in the morning. It was amazing. They just can't. 10 years that they've been doing it. I think I went four times. Four years in a row. They just canceled it. And my heart is crushed. That's so sad.

B (53:29)

That's sad. That's very sad.

A (53:31)

Right there by my. By our cottage. So we didn't have to camp there or like, you know. Anyway, I saw Laney and Zach Brown, I think it was last year.

B (53:41)

Yep. Me too. Me too. Zach Topp's another one of my favorites that's coming out. He's really great.

A (53:46)

Nice.

B (53:47)

And then what else? My son lives. One of my sons lives in Nashville.

A (53:53)

Oh.

B (53:53)

So I'm a little spoiled. Yeah.

A (53:57)

All right, sorry, non country music fans. We will move on. All right, Number three is. What is a photography specific product that you really love.

B (54:08)

Equipment wise, I would say I. I love my Nikon. Like, I'm sorry. All you can and people, but I. Doing it for using canon for 15 years and just going cold turkey to Nikon. Just do it. Or Fuji or Sony. I mean, yes, sure can. It's just expensive. They are. They're just so expensive. And I'm like, and I can get a Nikon for a little bit cheaper and it's just as good or even better. So, yeah, that. And also, I love my strobes. Now I have really, really reasonable travel elinchromes that I love. They're the D light four hundreds.

A (54:51)

Okay, cool.

B (54:52)

And they go on the road with me and knock on wood. I have extra bulbs and stuff, but they're not battery packed or anything. And they're just really reliable. And my soft lighter. Sorry, I have so many things I could say. I love my soft lighter. That is game changer.

A (55:09)

Very cool. All right, and last question. What would you tell people who are just starting out?

B (55:15)

Get more than one mentor, but get a mentor. That's how I started with my business. I saw someone on Facebook with a picture of a bouquet from a wedding, and I stalked her, and I did. I was literally like, I need to have coffee with you. She's like, why? I'm like, I want to be a wedding photographer. And she's like, are you sure? She's trying to talk me out of even meeting with her or being a wedding photographer before I even met her. But she. She pretty much spiled me into, like, senior portraits, family portraits, weddings. And then I just. I kind of went on from there. And in 2016 is when I got photographed by another wedding photographer who was doing the Sue Brice portraits. And that's the first time I ever saw a picture of myself that I loved.

A (56:02)

Wow.

B (56:03)

Yep. So that's why I started portraits.

A (56:06)

Wow. Very cool.

B (56:08)

Yeah. Really important.

A (56:10)

All right, well, thanks, my dear. I hope at some point, if you change your mind for wppi, it's in Las Vegas in March.

B (56:17)

Oh, I love Las Vegas.

A (56:20)

Yeah.

B (56:21)

Are you. So you're definitely going.

A (56:22)

Yes, I am. Yes. I am going to be a judge at WPPI's Got Talent. I'm going to be walking around with the microphone interviewing people, all the good things.

B (56:31)

Oh, how fun. Yeah, I definitely. It's an. What is that? March 14, like in a month?

A (56:37)

Yes, yes, yes. It's coming up the. It's the 16th through the 20th.

B (56:43)

Okay.

A (56:43)

March 16th through the 20th. Yeah.

B (56:45)

Yeah. I don't know where I'M going to be healing wise. But you know, I'm going to dive back into business as usual probably about 10 days after my surgery. So we'll see where I am. Yeah, I'll become left handed for a little while. I might be calling on you like hey listen, they're left behind.

A (57:04)

That's funny. Well, thank you again for sharing everything and I'm sure we will be in touch soon.

B (57:09)

Thank you.

A (57:10)

Take care of you. You and your hands.

B (57:12)

Thank you. Have a good one. You too.

A (57:15)

Thank you so much for listening to the Portrait System podcast. Your 5 star reviews really help us to continue what we do. So if you like listening, would you mind giving us a review wherever you listen? I also encourage you to head over to sue briceducation.com where you can find all of the education you need to be a successful photographer. There are over 1000 on demand educational videos on things like posing, lighting, styling, retouching, shooting, marketing, sales, business and self value. There's also the 90 day startup challenge plus so many downloads showing hundreds of different poses. We have to do checklists for your business, lighting PDFs. I mean truly everything to help make you a better photographer and to make you more money. Once Again, that's Sue briceducation.com.