From School Teacher To A $4500 Sales Avg with Whitney Collins (Re-Release)

Summary

The Portrait System Podcast: From School Teacher To A $4500 Sales Avg with Whitney Collins (Re-Release)
Release Date: April 30, 2025
Host: Nikki Closser
Guest: Whitney Collins

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Introduction

In this insightful episode of The Portrait System Podcast, host Nikki Closser welcomes Whitney Collins, a distinguished portrait photographer based in Savannah, Georgia. Whitney shares her transformative journey from a decade-long career as a high school English teacher to establishing a successful photography business with an impressive average sale of $4,500, specializing primarily in dance portraits.

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Whitney’s Background and Transition from Teaching to Photography

Whitney began her professional life as a high school English teacher, a role she fulfilled for ten years ([02:55] B). However, a deeply personal and challenging experience became the catalyst for her career shift. Whitney and her wife, Kim, planned to adopt a child, but the adoption fell through at the last moment. This unexpected turn led Whitney to reconsider her career path. Reflecting on this pivotal moment, Whitney explains:

Whitney Collins ([04:35] B): "It was just one of those awful situations that kind of turned into an opportunity."

With Kim’s support—who worked in corporate America at Gulfstream—Whitney felt empowered to pursue her passion for photography without incurring debt, emphasizing the importance of financial stability in their marriage ([05:07] B).

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Building the Photography Business

While still managing her responsibilities as a teacher, Whitney diligently worked on her photography business from a spare room. Balancing full-time teaching with growing her business was no small feat, involving evenings filled with editing and weekend sessions ([10:19] B). Whitney underscores the significance of sustainable pricing:

Whitney Collins ([12:40] B): "I had to price it sustainably to make it worth it."

Following the teachings of Sue Bryce Education, Whitney focused initially on mastering her craft before delving deeper into the business aspects of photography. She adopted a step-by-step approach, tackling one business component at a time, which helped her manage the overwhelming nature of starting a new venture ([16:45] B).

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Specialization in Dance Portraits and Marketing Strategies

Whitney’s niche evolved organically as she experimented with various photography styles. Initially shooting weddings, newborns, and families, she gradually discovered her affinity for dance portraits—a field that resonated with her background and clientele. Her first significant breakthrough came from a model call she organized for dancers, leading to referrals and establishing connections within the dance community ([20:16] B).

To effectively reach her target audience, Whitney launched a dedicated campaign titled "For the Love of Dance." She leveraged Facebook ads, which she outsourced to a specialist to ensure their effectiveness. This strategic move resulted in substantial organic growth as satisfied clients referred her services to their networks ([27:03] B). Whitney emphasizes the importance of building genuine connections within the community:

Whitney Collins ([30:16] B): "This is a really way to network and to get paid while you're doing it."

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Pricing Strategies and Client Communication

A cornerstone of Whitney’s business success lies in her thoughtful pricing strategies. Initially offering low-priced packages, Whitney realized that these did not adequately compensate her time and effort. Influenced by Sue Bryce Education, she transitioned to higher-priced custom shoots, which better reflected the value she provided. Whitney shares a memorable milestone:

Whitney Collins ([41:15] B): "My average is at $4,500."

By eliminating lower-priced packages, Whitney ensured that her services were perceived as premium, leading to higher client satisfaction and increased referrals. She also highlighted the importance of an organized workflow, utilizing tools like 17 hats to streamline client communication and booking processes, which mitigated feelings of being overwhelmed as her clientele expanded ([36:33] B).

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Workflow and Systems Implementation

As Whitney’s business grew, the complexity of managing client interactions and bookings intensified. To address this, she implemented automated workflows using platforms like 17 hats, which enhanced her ability to manage correspondence and ensure timely communication with clients. Whitney notes:

Whitney Collins ([36:33] B): "Any kind of automated workflow, I think is a key to having that success once you're getting a lot of clients."

This systematic approach allowed Whitney to maintain high standards of client service without sacrificing personal time, thereby supporting the scalability of her business.

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Personal Insights and Achieving Work-Life Balance

Whitney’s transition to entrepreneurship was driven not only by professional aspirations but also by a desire for personal freedom and work-life balance. The flexibility afforded by her photography business enabled her to prioritize family and personal well-being, a stark contrast to the rigid schedule of teaching. Her favorite inspirational quote encapsulates her entrepreneurial philosophy:

Whitney Collins ([51:10] B): "See it, be it, say it, do it."

This mantra has guided Whitney in manifesting her vision and persistently pursuing her goals, fostering both personal growth and business success.

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Conclusion and Advice for Aspiring Photographers

As the episode concludes, Whitney offers valuable advice to photographers beginning their entrepreneurial journey. She emphasizes the importance of patience, financial stability, and positive energy in building a sustainable business. Whitney advises:

Whitney Collins ([52:27] B): "Take your time. It allowed me to grow the business I wanted, not the business I had to have because I needed that income."

Her advice serves as a beacon for those navigating the challenges of starting and scaling a photography business, highlighting the importance of strategic planning and emotional resilience.

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Closing Thoughts

Whitney Collins’ story is a powerful testament to the potential for personal reinvention and business success through dedication, strategic planning, and unwavering self-belief. Her journey from education to a prosperous photography career offers invaluable lessons for photographers aiming to balance passion with profitability, ultimately inspiring listeners to pursue their dreams with confidence and purpose.

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Notable Quotes:

• Whitney Collins ([00:35] B): "We all start at that place of Am I good enough? Am I worth it? ... it's about how many clients can you serve."
• Whitney Collins ([06:30] B): "Sue really showed me that all you need is a girl and a window and a camera, and you don't need all the bells and whistles."
• Whitney Collins ([15:19] B): "Your pricing is a very objective thing... it's based off of real tangible numbers."
• Whitney Collins ([51:10] B): "See it, be it, say it, do it."

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Through Whitney Collins’ engaging narrative, listeners gain profound insights into the intersection of personal growth and business acumen, underscoring the transformative power of perseverance and strategic learning in the realm of portrait photography.

Transcript

[A]

Hey there, it's Nikki Klosser and I want to let you know about an awesome free giveaway for people on our email list. If you haven't already, click the link in our podcast description or go to theportraitsystem.com signup to get on the list. If you sign up, you'll get a free posing 101 PDF to jumpstart things. It's an epic PDF, so you'll definitely want to get this. Also, just by being in our email community, you'll get deals, sales, and information about any of our upcoming events and activities. So head over to theportraitsystem.com signup and sign up. Today you're listening to the Portrait System podcast.

[B]

We all start at that place of Am I good enough? Am I worth it? And when you really look at your numbers, it really doesn't have anything to do with that. I mean, of course you have to be good enough to sell your work, but the pricing is not based off of what you feel you're worth. It's based off of real, tangible numbers. And maybe they make you want to throw up a little bit and maybe they make you wonder if you're worth it. But you know it has to do with how many clients can you serve. Well, a week or a month.

[A]

Welcome to the Portrait System Podcast. I'm your host Nikki Klosser and this show is here to help you succeed in the world of photography and business. To help you learn to become financially free, doing what you love and so much more. With over 1 million downloads, countless photographers have taken what they've learned from both our episodes and from theportraitsystem.com and they have grown their businesses, quit their day jobs and are designing a life of their dreams. We keep it real and share stories about the ups and downs that come with running a photography business. You'll hear real life stories of how other photographers run their business and you'll learn actionable steps that you can take to reach your own goals. Thank you so much for being here. And let's get started. Hey everyone. My guest today on the Portrait System is Whitney Collins. Whitney became burned out as a schoolteacher and decided she needed to make a change. She decided to build her business while working full time and we all know that starting a new career while working another job can be tough. Whitney tells us all about how she set herself up for success. Whitney also experienced some tough times that pushed her towards growing her business and she shares how she got through it now at her studio in Savannah Georgia Whitney's average sale is $4,500 with a heavy focus on dance portraits. Okay. It is my pleasure to introduce you to Whitney Collins. Hi, Whitney. Thank you so much for being on the portrait system. How are you?

[B]

I'm doing well. Thank you so much for having me.

[A]

Yeah, I'm really excited to hear your story. I mean, I know a little bit about, but I think this is something that's gonna be really relatable to people. I know I can relate, you know, as far as kind of what I went through. So I think this is gonna be really good for you to share with people.

[B]

Awesome. Thank you. I'm excited to share the story.

[A]

Okay, so let's start before photography. Cause I think this is a really important key to, you know, everything that you've done.

[B]

Yeah, so I actually started my career as a high school English teacher and I taught high school for 10 years and it wasn't until the last couple of years that I photography business alongside working that full time job.

[A]

Okay, so teaching high school, how long did you do that for?

[B]

10 years.

[A]

10 years. Okay, so I mean, you were in it for a while.

[B]

Yes, I definitely was.

[A]

What made you decide like it wasn't something you wanted to do and that it was time for photography?

[B]

Honestly, it wasn't just the job. I think anybody that's in education can agree. Within the last, you know, 15 years, education has really changed. But my wife and I were actually going to adopt a baby. And so we had decided as a family that it would be, it would be best if I stayed home with the baby. And then in the hospital, you know, right when the family was about to sign the papers, they changed their mind. Yeah. And that was, you know, it was one of those pivotal moments in my life just as a person. I was going to take maternity leave from school and I wasn't planning to go back. I was planning to be a stay at home mom. But we had already moved like kind of all of our financial puzzle pieces around for to be able to stay at home. And my wife told me, you know, if you're going to really pursue photography, like this is the time. I just didn't feel like I could go back. I wasn't in a place to really be around kids and I just, I just needed something more, you know, it was just one of those awful situations that kind of turned into an opportunity.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah. What's your wife's name?

[B]

Kim.

[A]

Kim. Okay. What does she do?

[B]

She works in corporate America. She works at Gulfstream here in Savannah.

[A]

Oh, okay, very cool. I was just curious because I know, you know, people sometimes either don't have a partner or don't have a partner who has a good job or. And sometimes people have a partner who can, like, fully float them financially. And if it's not too personal for me to ask, was Kim able to, like, pay all of the bills? I know you said you moved some things around, but I'm just curious about that.

[B]

So it was really important to us when we got married to just make sure that we didn't carry debt. And so the financial puzzle pieces for us was really just making sure that, you know, we didn't have debt. And I think for me, it's almost a little bit of imposter syndrome because she was able to pay the bills while I was really kind of getting the photography business up and running. But we've talked a little bit about it, and, you know, if that wouldn't have been the case, we would have just had to go about things in a different way. But, yeah, she was thankfully able to kind of float us through while I was getting everything off the ground.

[A]

Okay, nice. Very cool. But I know you said that, you know, something that important that you said is that you didn't want to go in this business in debt. And I know there are different. There are different thought processes around this. I mean, like, so many. You can get a small business loan probably pretty easily. You know, they make it. They make it really easy for you to get into debt. So, you know, some people feel very comfortable either getting a loan or racking up credit card bills or whatever in order to get that, start with the intention of kind of paying it back. And some people are like, hell, no, I would never do that. Like, I have to have a fresh start debt free. So what kind of. What was your thought process process around that?

[B]

When we talked about me really going full time with the business, we knew that taking on a lot of debt was not something we were really interested in doing. I think that it would have caused a lot of problems in our marriage, and it would have caused a lot of stress on me as a business owner because just the way I feel about having student loans. It's just that that debt cloud hanging over your head. And, you know, sue really. Sue really showed me that all you need is a girl and a window and a camera, and you don't need all of the bells and whistles. And that's how I started. I started at home. I was working full time, and Sue's education really resonated with me, because she wasn't encouraging you to go out and get a business loan and to bite off more than you can chew. From the very beginning, you know, it was. It's kind of, start humble and learn your craft. And that's what I did.

[A]

That, like, sums up so much of what sue teaches. Start humble, learn your craft. Like, there are so many things that you can be doing that doesn't cost money in order to grow and build. So I know that you said while you were still a high school teacher, you were getting things off the ground, so I wonder if you could kind of walk us through what that looked like. And I know you did not have kids back then, but you do have kids now, right?

[B]

I do, yeah.

[A]

You have twins.

[B]

I do. And they're toddlers, and they're, you know, two and a half. And it's. Hopefully we're not going to hear them during our time together.

[A]

Oh, if we do, that's okay, too. Totally understand. Okay. So, gosh, isn't it so wild how I'm sure at the time when, you know, you were going to adopt a baby and it fell through and everything, and now here you are with this really successful business and twin toddlers.

[B]

Yeah. And, you know, at the time, it really was the worst thing I've ever been through, and I definitely don't wish that on anyone. And I think if the adoption would have gone through when it was time, I definitely would have gone back to teaching. I don't know, with a baby, if I would have had the courage to, you know, to be a business owner. And I think that I just poured all of that hurt and all of that, just all of that sadness into creating something beautiful. And, you know, that it just gave me the room, I think, to take that risk and to take that chance. So I'm in a better place now. You know, I can be the mom that I really want to be now because I've built this business over the last couple of years. And I think that that's just a really amazing thing.

[A]

Yeah, it really is. It truly is. And, you know, I can't imagine, like, the pain and grief that you went through when that, you know, when that happened. It's just. It's one of those things where if something ever, you know, if something happens in a way that feels very out of my control, I'm always like, okay, this isn't happening to me. It's happening for me. And I don't know why, and I know it feels like shit right now, but for some reason, it's happening for me. You know, it's like. I don't know. It's just so crazy how things can turn out.

[B]

Yeah. And I'm not. I've never really been a big everything happens for a reason kind of person, but I can see the opportunity that came from that very painful, very painful event, so. And I think being able to lean into Sue's teachings and just that self value piece and just all of that, it was just a really. It was just something so good for me to lean into and just to kind of pour my heart into, you know, because she's also talking about just the soul work that you need to do to be a business owner. And I was definitely in that place.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah. Well, okay, so take us back a little bit then. So you were teaching full time. What did that look like for you as you were building? Like, when were you doing all of this and where?

[B]

So it was kind of crazy. I think my story might be a little cliche. I actually. In 2016, Kim and I got married and we went on our honeymoon and she had like a rebel or something, and we had just paid what I thought was this exorbitant amount of money for wedding photography. And I just. I kind of picked up her camera. And I mean, it just. I don't know, I just really loved it and I was really good at it. It made a lot of sense to me. And so that fall, I started out like a lot of people do. I lugged my Christmas tree out to the local park and, you know, advertised Christmas minis in the park, and it was $75. And you got all the images that I thought were decent. And I was shooting, you know, pretty much on auto. And that was the fall of 2016. By spring of 2017, I found Sue. And then I just ju right into her education. And so my last semester of teaching was spring of 2018. So from, you know, really for a whole entire year, I was working out of a spare room at our house, and I was doing it on the weekends. I was editing, you know, really late into the night. And so, yeah, I mean, I was just constantly working. So with teaching, I mean, you know, you're at school for a full day, and then you come home and you have parents to call and papers to grade. And then I was working in ordering appointments and working in editing and client phone calls. And it finally got to a point where I really couldn't do both anymore successfully. And so that kind of was lining up with the adoption, and we were kind of Making moves in that direction anyway. And then, yeah, I was like, I'm just going to go for this.

[A]

Yeah. I remember those nights where it was just like I would come home from work and go skip straight to editing or straight to shooting. There was no. I remember thinking like after the first year of doing it, like, I have not picked up a book in a year, you know, and I still just, only just recently started reading again. Like with physical books, like, there's just so much that goes into getting that business started. And when you're doing it full time, it really can be tricky. It can be tricky to sort of balance work in life when you've got that full time job in the business, you know?

[B]

Yeah, it was really hard. I think I learned very quickly that I had to be priced sustainably to make it worth it. And I think that, you know, setting up those first pricing sheets where it was really like, if I'm going to do this, I really need to figure out how to do it right because it's not, it's just not worth it at this amount of money. I think what it did for me was it gave me reps, it helped me master my craft and I'm. It was just a necessary part of the process. And then once I felt like, okay, I've really got a great handle on this, I was like, I've got to start mastering the business part. And honestly, that's been the most challenging part of this journey is the business side of everything.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, agreed. That is definitely. I was talking about that, my WPPI talk. I was like, so I'll like. Everything pointed to me that I like, shouldn't be a business owner. Like all signs pointed to me not, not running a business. But once you learn it and focus on a business model that works for you and really just, I mean, take the emotion out of it. It's really not okay. I don't want to say it's easy, but it's really not as daunting and hard once you, once you get it, once you learn it. Like, did you feel like that?

[B]

Yeah. I think at the beginning of owning a business, especially in a field that feels subjective, you tie your pricing to how you feel about yourself and your work. And I see people in the group a lot. You know, you start off by looking at what everybody else is doing and you know, sometimes you just have to realize that Johnny's a dick. You know, like it doesn't matter what he's charging or what anybody is charging, but we all start at that. Place of am I good enough? Am I worth it? And when you really look at your numbers, and that's what I love so much about the new, like, you know, the new price calculator is that it really doesn't have anything to do with that. I mean, of course you have to be good enough to sell your work, but the pricing is not based off of what you feel you're worth. It's based off of real tangible numbers. And maybe they make you want to throw up a little bit, and maybe they make you wonder if you're worth it. But you know, it has to do with how many clients can you serve. Well, a week or a month, how much are you paying for rent, all those real tangible numbers. So it just, you know, your pricing is a very objective thing and then you just have to work on feeling worth charging it. And that's a whole separate, A whole separate thing to me.

[A]

You bring up some really great points. It really, truly is an objective thing. When you look at how much it costs you to do a photo shoot, how much it costs you to run your business, and I don't know if you've used the pricing calculator yet on the portrait system website, but you can input every single cost of business and then you input how much you want to take home in your pocket how many photo shoots you want to do per month. And it will spit out for you small, medium and large package pricing of what you would need to make to make a specific, like to make your target goal of money. And it is a very eye opening.

[B]

I actually worked with a mentor a couple years ago before that resource was available, but it was the same exact process. And I'm so, I was so thankful for having somebody to kind of help me get those numbers down on paper. And I'm so grateful that, you know, people have that resource without having to spend above and beyond, you know, their membership cost to get those numbers. So, no, it's an amazing resource. I did look into it and just make sure like, you know, a couple years down the road, am I still charging sustainably? And everything looked good. So it's a really amazing resource.

[A]

Yeah. Awesome. Okay, so let's talk a little bit about. You had mentioned you wanted to do it right and take the time to do it right. What are some of the things that you did that looking back, you're like, I'm glad I did it this way, or maybe I kind of wish that I had done something differently. Is there anything you can think of?

[B]

I think for me, it's one of those things where I think at the beginning it got a little frustrating because there was just stuff I didn't know. And so, like, for example, when I was really trying to nail down my numbers, you know, it's like, well, if you have a studio, how much do you think? Like, there was just stuff I just didn't know. But what I have learned along the way is that everything I needed to know, I found out when I needed to know it, if that makes sense. So, for example, I started off mastering my craft and really just learning the camera. And then it became evident that I needed to learn the business side of things. And so I sat down, I crunched my numbers. I really got my packages situated, my pricing situated, my workflow situated. And then it became evident that I needed to work on marketing. So every step of the way, I would learn one thing, and then I would learn the next thing I needed to know, if that makes sense. So I think just taking it in small bites like that, you know, the one bite at a time, you don't have to know everything up front, and you're just not going to know everything up front. So just being flexible, not stressing out so much, I think that, you know, that's kind of what I would tell myself at the beginning. Like, it's just gonna be okay, and you just have to learn one thing at the time. Yeah.

[A]

Yeah. I love that you said that. Because if we look at it as one huge endeavor, it becomes incredibly overwhelming. And I think that people get to a stage of, like, analysis paralysis, they call it, where they just can't move forward. And that's why exactly what you said about taking it off and are doing things in really small steps in small chunks. And I know I keep talking about the portrait system website, but you keep bringing up great points. There is a studio timeline checklist type situation of every single thing that you need to do in order to get your business up and running. And it's like if you just pick one thing and focus on it, one thing, check it off, one thing. The next thing you know, you look back and you're like, all right, well, look at that. I have. You know, you start to see how much you have done, and then your clients are coming in now, and it's just. I don't know, there's just something about doing things in just smaller steps that makes it so much easier.

[B]

Well, and I think it can be a way that we procrastinate, like putting out your marketing or putting yourself out there, you know, It's a lot easier to say, oh, well, I can't until I have my website and my, you know, my PDF, and I just. I can't do it. And it's easy to use that as an excuse, but really, you really can just get going. Like, you don't have to have all of those things done, completed to get started. When I first started, I didn't have the beautiful PDF, and I didn't. I had a pretty basic website, but it wasn't anything that was super amazing. It was just the basic information. And I think that's something that sue kind of helped me with at the very beginning, was just kind of the basics of what I needed to have. Your website needs to have these things, you know what I mean? So it didn't feel as insurmountable to me at the, you know, at the beginning, I don't think.

[A]

Yeah, yeah.

[B]

Well, let's.

[A]

Let's shift gears a little bit and talk about your business. So tell us, well, what did you start shooting? And do you shoot the same thing now?

[B]

No, I started shooting anything anybody would pay me to shoot. And you know what? It was great because I didn't know at the time what I wanted to shoot. So it was a really gradual elimination. The first to go was weddings. It was not my jam. And then the next very quickly to go was babies, newborns, little kids. Just not my jam. So, really, I started off because I was following the Sue Brice education. I wanted to do what she did. And I think a lot of us maybe start that way, kind of emulating, you know, emulating her work. So I started with women's glamour, and I did some boudoir, and that kind of, you know, got into families. And then I really hit my stride with teenagers, teens, seniors, and I didn't do women's glamour as much. And I think at the beginning of my career, I was so nervous, and, you know, to be photographed as a woman, I feel like women come in nervous, and it was just this cycle of nerves, and it just was so depleting to me. I just didn't feel comfortable or as confident as I feel like I needed to be to serve them well. But once. Once I got in front of teenagers, I think I had that familiarity from teaching for 10 years, and I felt like a little bit more at home. So now my business is like, dancers and teenagers. I do some families, but predominant, say, 95% of my business is, you know, kids 8 to 18.

[A]

Okay, so what type of portraits then for the kids and teens?

[B]

So I have a studio downtown, and we do. I do a lot of dance work.

[A]

You know what, Whitney, we didn't talk about where you live. So where is downtown?

[B]

So I'm actually downtown in Savannah, Georgia. So right on. Yeah, right on the coast.

[A]

Nice. I heard that's a really amazing town.

[B]

It is. It has just a whole lot of historical, you know, locations to go out and shoot. We have the Spanish Moss. And not too far down the road, we actually have. We have a beach as well. Tybee Island.

[A]

Yeah. Wow. Amazing. All right, so you have a studio downtown, and then tell us, you know, what type of portraits you're doing.

[B]

So I do a lot of dance portraits, and that has been something that really has been in process for a couple years. When I was in my home studio in 2018, I did a model call for dancers, and I danced growing up. So it was just something that, you know, I had seen on, you know, on Pinterest and Instagram, people shooting dancers in the studio. And I was like, man, I want to do that. And I have the dance background, and let's just see how it goes. So I had two dancers come in, and one of them on pointe touched. Could touch my ceiling. And I was like, okay, so this isn't. This isn't going to work where I'm at right now. And so I kind of put that on the back burner for a little while because I didn't have a studio. But I did meet this incredible woman. She brought her daughter, and we ended up going out on location because my little room, I found the limitations very quickly. And, you know, it was really a great networking relationship, and I had no idea that it was going to turn into anything more than just this model call. When she got her pictures back, she, you know, she shared me with all of her friends. And then all of a sudden, you know, I was. I was getting all of these referrals for dancers, and so I was looking for a studio downtown, and I knew that I wanted to shoot dancers. So having those high ceilings was something that was very important. And really, I just started shooting a lot of dancers. And so now what that looks like, we do a lot of studio. I'm actually working through a campaign called for the Love of Dance. I started it last year. It was a really successful campaign. So I'm in my second year of doing that. And so most dancers are in the studio. Some dancers want to go out on location, and we do that too. Really, our sessions can be whatever it is that people want them to be. We've we do creative concepts. Some people just want to go run around downtown. We do that. We do a mix of both if they want. It's literally whatever they want to do. That's what we do.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

I don't know if that answers your question, but, yeah, no, no, that's good.

[A]

That's good. So I guess, how do you find people to come in, you know, kids and teens to want to do dance photos? Because I feel like it's not something that most parents are thinking about doing or whatever. Like, how do you access this demographic?

[B]

So with my. Really, that first parent that I worked with, with the model call, she put me in touch with a lot of people at their studio, and I shot a lot of them. And we do have a performing arts high school. And so they would go to school and talk with their friends. And, you know, I got a couple other dance clients from a couple other studios around town, but really, most of my clientele was coming from that. That one studio. I knew that wasn't super sustainable if I wanted to do more dance photography. So I actually set up a dance campaign, and this was honestly a way to kind of get going after Covid after having a year off of maternity leave, just to kind of get the ball rolling again. And so the campaign was called for the Love of Dance, and I marketed primarily on Facebook, and that's really where the majority of my dance clients have come from, is just from running that campaign.

[A]

Okay, hey, just a quick break to tell you that since you're here listening, you have access to a really great offer for our listeners only. We have a special promo code you can use to get 50% off the cost of membership. Just go to theportraitsystem.com or click the link in the description and use the promo code PODCAST50 to get 50% off of a membership. We rarely discount membership, so this is a big deal. As I hope you already know, the membership is how I and so many guests on this podcast reached our success. And it gives you access to countless amazing videos, an awesome community, and all the tools you need to build a massively successful business. So use the code podcast50Now to join the community and to start building the business of your dreams. I'll see you there. So I know that Facebook campaigns can be a beast, and it. And those can make people nervous, and they're confusing, and sometimes, like, I just would rather, you know, stick pins in my eyeballs than deal with them. So tell me a little bit about how you set them up. And, you know, what kind of success you had with them.

[B]

I learned pretty early on that there's no way to master all the things in the timeline that you have to master them. And I just remembered sue saying, basically, like, if it's going to slow you down, give it away. And that's. I found a retoucher several years ago, and I kind of approached Facebook ads, like, similarly. I found somebody that was really crushing it with Facebook ads, really knew what they were doing, and honestly, I hired them to do my Facebook ad. I knew that it was going to be money well spent if somebody really knew what they were doing. I mean, I could figure it out on my own, but, I mean, how much money was that going to cost? So, you know, I tried to do my Facebook ad. It didn't go anywhere. I found somebody that was, you know, offering to do it, and I paid them, and then it took off. And what's so brilliant about this is that, you know, it just takes one kid coming from a dance studio for it to spread, and then they go and they share their experience. And so I really paid for Facebook ads to get the ball rolling. But then it just took off. And I didn't have to do Facebook ads throughout the whole campaign to get business. And this year, once I announced I was doing it again, I spent probably half as much on Facebook ads this year as I did last year. Just because people, they knew about the project, they knew I was doing it again. They were talking to their friends. And so it's been really incredible just to watch it spread organically once those ads kind of got to the right people.

[A]

Yeah, I really like this. It's kind of like if you can just think, okay, if I can find three people, let's say, to photograph doing what I really want to do and try to make the most of it with those three people and just provide great service and beautiful portraits, eventually the word starts to spread. You know, it's like, if you look at it and like that, instead of, okay, I need to find, you know, 100 people this year or whatever, like, that just sounds more scary. But like you said, I mean, one or two people can really help make a big difference as long as you're providing great service and beautiful photos and making connection.

[B]

And I think that that with the dancers, you know, it's a really easy way to kind of get into the community. When you make, you know, that one or two those great contacts, then you, you know, you say, well, let me see if I can set up a booth at the dance recital, or let Me see, you know, how can I support them? Are they doing. There was our performing arts middle school was doing like a dance convention and I sponsored that. Like, how are ways that I can give back? Because this is my, this is my target audience. So if I can go and be present, you know, that's just one more touch point. And to me, you know, a lot of people want to know, like, how do I network? I don't know how to do it, where do I go? Like that networking was so much more valuable to me than like first day going to like, you know, the Chamber of whatever. Like that kind of marketing or networking didn't really work for me. Whereas showing up, you know, to their showcase or sponsoring their convention, that was just a much more beneficial use of my time.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, I love that. And really it's like once you, whatever event you're at or whatever group you're trying to infiltrate, you know, to have them become clients, really the processes the same. It's all about relationship building and making those connections and having a great elevator pitch and just all of those things. But like you said, it could be at the Chamber or it could be at a dance show. Like it just, it doesn't matter. Like the process is the same as long as you are focusing on your target market.

[B]

Right. And I think, you know, the campaign is a really brilliant way to network and to get paid while you're doing it. I, I run my campaign a little bit differently where I have kind of two options for clients. My regular pricing is a little bit expensive to some folks, but they still want to have some of the experience. And so I do what I call mini days. And it's not the traditional mini, you know, as far as like 30 minutes, come dress and all of that, they just get a smaller amount of the experience. And what I mean by that is they come in, they get hair and makeup, but they get an hour in the studio. Whereas our custom shoots are more along the four to six hours, multiple locations, you know, kind of experience. So they do get an abbreviated experience. They're paying 390, they get a couple of images with their, their collection, they can purchase more. But what I found is that, you know, some of those people coming in for the 390 experience, they're sharing me with friends that are doing a custom shoot and spending thousands of dollars. So to me, it's an awesome networking, you know, opportunity because they might be that one connection in a studio that nobody knows of me yet, and then they share me with those people. So you know, you just don't ever know. You know, they themselves might not be spending a ton of money, but you don't ever know who they're connected to and kind of how all that's going to play out. So that's been a really cool thing too, with the campaign.

[A]

Yeah, that's awesome. Tell us a little bit about your pricing. I know you said you have both, like a mini day and then also the, you know, the more elaborate type shoots. So tell us about those.

[B]

So the many. I just do them for dance and I've just done them with the campaign. And what I wanted was I wanted anybody that clicked on my ad to be able to go and book it and know exactly what they were getting. They were getting hair and makeup, an hour photo shoot and three digital images with the option to purchase more. I was having, like, so many people signing up, I couldn't call them fast enough to give them the full details. And so that is its own little thing, and it's pretty special. For the dance campaign, our normal session fee is 690, and it includes a wardrobe consult, the hair and makeup, and the shoot itself. What's really fun is that the hair and makeup artist stays with us on set and she's just there from the beginning to the end. So they really get that celebrity for a day treatment. Those shoots are usually four to six hours. We do some in the studio, some on location. And, you know, some people want to do really creative things. So we've built a tea party for a Mad Hatter shoot. We, you know, we've just done all kinds of stuff that's really creative, and the custom just gives them the flexibility to do that. And the dance community, they are, I think they're my people because they're also just really outside the box, which is a lot of fun.

[A]

So someone reaches out to you because they saw a Facebook campaign, let's say, what are the steps from there?

[B]

So people can do one of two things with the campaign ad specifically. They can either fill out the form to get more information or they can go right on ahead and pay. Pay for their shoot. Either way, I'm going to give them a phone call because I need to schedule, you know, I need to schedule their shoot. And that's when I talk about the custom. And I just say, hey, this is what you've signed up for and this is what you get. But let me tell you about our custom shoot and see which you think is the better fit. And that's when I would go into you know, you get the extended time, the hair and makeup artist will stay. We can do, you know, any kind of creative concept for your dancer. We can order special things. And really, I just kind of talk up the custom. But there's no pressure there for them to book that shoot. And I would say, you know, probably about 35, 40% will upgrade to the custom because they just. They just want more. And that's. That's how I explain it to them. The promotional shoot is a really. It's a really great shoot. It's kind of an all in one. But if you just want more, like, this is. This is where we're going. And so, yeah, I talk to them on the phone. You know, some people will say, no, we're good. We just want to try it out, or my daughter is only eight or whatever the case might be. And I say, great, let's pick out a date. And then I put them into my workflow with 17 hats and it sends them emails throughout the whole process. When to schedule their wardrobe consult, you know, when, how to prepare for their shoot, all those fun things. So I kind of have, you know, every step of the way, they know what's coming next. But it all starts with a phone call and just kind of hearing what their, you know, what are their visions and wishes for the shoot.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, that's great. It sounds like you're very organized with a streamlined process. That's, yeah, very helpful.

[B]

I really. So I think that that was one of those things that as the more busy you get, I think you start to find flaws in your workflow. Like your workflow cannot support the level of business that you're at. And the 17 hats workflow, it's been a more recent addition to my business because I just always felt like I was chasing the ball. I couldn't ever get ahead of things, and I felt like I was starting to slip on correspondence. And that's not serving your clients well when they don't know what's coming up or they don't feel like they had enough time to get the outfits together because the wardrobe consult was later than it should have been. So the 17 hats workflow, any kind of automated workflow, I think is really a key to having that success once you're getting a lot of clients coming through the studio.

[A]

I agree. I never did it, and I think that it hurt me in the end. I mean, and not to complain, like, I've had a great, successful business. I truly, truly have. But I am sure that I missed out on a lot of inquiries, not responding when I should on not getting contracts out on time. Like, I know that I have a client or two who did not pay the session fee invoice, or I'll have them be like, they'll come into the studio, when do I pay my session fee? And I'm like, oh, shit, did I not send that out? Like, I mean, Whitney, like, okay, everyone out there, if you're listening to Whitney, like, make sure you have this process streamlined. It's something I should have done so long ago, but I just. I just couldn't get it to. I don't know, it was just too overwhelming. So I just didn't.

[B]

It is overwhelming. And I think that any of those, you know, any of those software platforms, they just do so much. And it gets overwhelming because, you know, I already had a workflow for, like, my invoicing and I already, you know, there were some things that I already had steps in place to deal with. The ball that I was dropping was the client communication. And so when I really sat down, I said, I cannot do this like this anymore. It was just the point that I had to do something different. And so I said, I'm going to put my blinders on and I'm going to address the problem and I'm not going to get lost in the sauce on all this other stuff that this software will do for me, because once I need it, I'll know that I need it, and then I can come in here and put that into my workflow. I just had to address that communication issue. So I think that in this business or in any business, it's so easy to get lost in all the things. And again, you just have to address that one thing, get the problem solved, and then you can go on to the next thing that comes up.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, I love that. Now, can you tell us a little bit about your pricing in general? So what are the mini session or the mini shoots kind of, you know, pricing for that versus the full shoot?

[B]

So the mini shoot, the session fee is 390. And again, it includes the professional hair and makeup, an hour in the studio, and three digital images. I wanted people to feel like they were getting something for their, you know, for their 390. I wanted them to be able to pay one thing, get a couple images, and if that's all they got, they would. They would feel great about it. I do schedule those like five to six during a weekend day. So we'll start at nine and we'll finish up, you know, later in the evening. And they're just back to back shoots. Because my goal is I really need to hit a $2,500 sales average to make my numbers for the month work. And so I haven't had any issues, you know, selling additional images to get to that $2,500 average. My custom shoots, of course I'm looking to make that 2,500 average. One shoot. My average right now is actually at 4,500. Just the way that I have my pricing structured. I started off with, you know, Sue's 6:12, 20 and I was scared to death at the pricing. So I started like she said, put your pricing together, price it sustainably and then just do 50% off if you know you're running model calls or until you're really confident. You know, I'm new in business, these are my prices. But for right now I'm only charging 50%. And you know, I did that for a little while and then I was like, you know what, there's never going to be a time that I don't want to throw up charging this. So I just had to do it. Scared people wait until they're ready and if I just do this, I'm going to be ready. And if I. No, no, probably not. You know, charging somebody six, $7,000, it probably is always going to make you sweat.

[A]

It does.

[B]

You know, like I remember my first thousand dollar sale, it was a high school senior and I, that was the dream package. It was like I don't know, 1090 or something, just right over a thousand dollars. And the client was out of town, so we did a zoom, like a zoom reveal. This is several years ago and I didn't realize that, I didn't realize that the computer was still connected. And as soon as like I ran her card information and everything went through, I went woohoo. Like so loud. And they just started laughing and I was like, oh my gosh, I'm, I was so embarrassed. I was like, I'm just so glad you love your photos. And like in the call, but it just felt like, oh my gosh, people are gonna pay that for, for photos I took. It was, you know, it was just one of those moments I don't think I'll ever forget.

[A]

That is so funny.

[B]

Yeah. But you know, now my, like I said, my average is at 4,500.

[A]

That's amazing.

[B]

Thank you. Yeah, it's, but it's just been a journey. I mean I, I started out at $75 and then the first packages that I had really designed myself, I Just didn't know what was supposed to go in them. And this was before Subry. So, you know, you. I guess, designed them or. I designed them based off of how I had purchased pictures, and that was usually through a school photographer or Olin Mills or whatever. Olin Mills.

[A]

That's so funny.

[B]

Yeah. Where you got your handful of wallets and your five by sevens and your eight by tens. And that was what my first packages looked like. And it wasn't until I found Sue Brice that my packages were, you know, per image. And so I. My packages now are, you know, they start at 15 images and then 25, and then 35, and then you can add in bundles of 10 after 35. I used to have a smaller package, but every time I sold it, it just kind of pissed me off. And I don't mean that in a negative way. I was always grateful for the money. And I. You know, and I think that's something that Sue. I could just hear sue saying is, like, accept it with gratitude. And if, like, I couldn't accept it with gratitude, then I needed to make some changes. Yeah, I just felt like I didn't need four to six hours to create that small package and that those clients were better served in a. You know, at a lower price point anyway in that mini shoot. So I did make that adjustment, but it was really scary because my packages start now at 28.90. You know, I went back and forth with Kim, and I was like, oh, every time I sell the eight image Folio, it just makes me sad. One, because I don't feel like the monetary exchange is. You know, I don't feel like it's. I don't feel like it's an even exchange. But also, there's all these beautiful images that are just gonna die on my hard drive. And that just feels pointless to me. Like, we're creating this beautiful art, and it's just never gonna see the light of day. I said, but, you know, that package is below 2000. And I'm just so worried if people don't see that package on there and they see that my collections start at 2890, they're not going to book. And I finally told her, I'm just going to do it. Scared. And she said, I don't know, Whitney. And I said, I don't either, but I'm doing it because the way that I feel when I sell this package is not worth it. And I haven't. I took the package off when I came back from COVID in 2020. 1. And, and I've never had a problem. I've never had anybody push back. I've just, I, and I think that's when my, my sales average kind of shot up because I didn't have, I just don't have a low level package for the custom shoots.

[A]

It's such a good indicator if you're out there and you're, you're listening and you're feeling like, okay, I feel resentful if someone gets, you know, only spends x amount of money or, you know, you just feel kind of like I just did all of that. And it didn't feel even like you said, Whitney, that is a hu, huge indicator that it is time to raise your prices. And also if you are booking more than you can handle at your pricing and you're feeling like overwhelmed and burned out, it's time to raise your prices again. Like, this is so important and I'm, I think it's so wonderful that you did that. And yes, it's scary and yes it is. You wonder like, it's so funny that Kim's like, I have, I don't know, like sometimes we just have to take that risk and just go for it. It. And like you said, if you're finding that your bookings go down a little bit, use a gift voucher, just give people a gift voucher until it becomes the norm that this is your pricing.

[B]

Yeah. And you know what's so interesting is that if you want to get less than 15 images from a custom shoot, you can, you can purchase them a la carte. And I actually just had a client who she, that's all she wanted. She wanted 10 images and she needed them pretty quick. And she paid my a la carte, my a la carte fee. And it was about a thousand dollars more than it would have been, you know, at that lower folio cost. And it still was a little bit sad because we had a lot of images that, you know, have died on my hard drive. But it, I, I was able to give her those photos with so much love because I felt like it was an even exchange for the time that we spent together.

[A]

It's so important to feel that even exchange, it really is.

[B]

And I will say that Kim, she, It's so funny because when I first started this, I remember we were sitting at her house and this is when I had a studio in the house. I was still working full time. I mean, I was basically working two full time jobs and I didn't have a retoucher, I didn't have Anybody helping me but Kim. And she just kept telling me, like, whitney, if this is what you want to do, I have no doubt you can do it. And I looked at her and I said, my dream is one day I just want to be able to go on a Wednesday and get a blowout and just go have a coffee with somebody. I just don't want people. Because when you're a teacher, every minute of your day is scheduled.

[A]

Oh, when you have pee, when you have to go to the bathroom. I mean, it's like, you can't just leave a classroom full of kids if you have to go. It's crazy.

[B]

That's what I told her. I just want to go get a blowout on a Wednesday. And she told me. She said, whitney, I thought, okay, but I just kind of thought, like, that's not. That's not ever going to happen. And it's so funny, because when I really got my business up and running, there was, like, a random day during the week that I went and got in a blowout. And she's like, well, here you are. So now just kind of with that, you know? And I would tell her everything that I was learning from listening to sue and about, like, manifesting and, you know, no more, no less, and, like, all these things. And so it's just so funny to watch how that's kind of changed her thinking about what is possible. Like, she just says, whatever you say you're gonna do, I know you're gonna do it. So it doesn't fully surprise me anymore. And it's. It's just been kind of a really cool thing to see that, you know, if I just say it and then go for it, you know, it usually kind of comes to pass.

[A]

So the blowout on a Wednesday is so symbolic, and it. I can relate to that so deeply. And it's not just about getting the blowout. It is about just designing a life of freedom and freedom of time to do what you want, when you want to do it, when you want to be with your kids, when you want to be working. It is priceless, and I cannot recommend it enough. Yeah.

[B]

And I think that, you know, that's what it was. And it's so interesting to go from high school to college, back to high school, and then to be there for 10 years. It's just a really interesting dynamic as far as feeling like you're really in control of your own life. You know, you just don't have that same career experience that a lot of people have as far as, like, going off to lunch or. I don't know. It just. You're just so scheduled, and it's so regulated, and so. No, it was about the freedom. And I think now that I have children, when I have to be a mom first, when something comes up with their health or an appointment or, you know, just a fun thing we want to go do. Like, I can go do that.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And that has been like, I don't go get blowouts on Wednesdays anymore because, you know, I'm right in the middle of toddler momhood, but I can take them to do events and I can just spend time with them. Whereas at teaching, I would have gone and given my best to everybody else's children and then come home and just been wiped out, and that's not how I wanted to parent.

[A]

Yep. Yep. Can definitely relate to that, that's for sure. Well, I appreciate everything that you've shared today. This has been really great and really inspiring, and I just. I have a feeling there just are a lot of people out there who are, you know, where you were 10 years ago and where I was 10 years ago, and just know that there is a light at the end of the tunnel if you're doing the work. Whitney's an example. I'm an example. I mean, so many people on this podcast are examples. So just keep putting one foot in front of the other. And I'm like, you'll get that Wednesday blowout one day. Whatever that means to you, you know? So awesome. Well, I do have a couple more questions for you that I always ask at the end of each episode. And number one is, what is something you can't live without when you're doing a photo shoot?

[B]

So one thing that I really, really look forward to and really need during every shoot, honestly, is the assistance from my hair and makeup artist. She goes above and beyond making the clients feel just taken care of. They don't have to worry about, you know, do they have flyaways, or are they getting, you know, is their makeup running? She's just right there the whole time, just being their assistant and making them feel amazing. And honestly, it just makes everything on the back end so much easier when, you know, she's taking care of all of those little details.

[A]

I could not agree with you more. There is something so special about finding a great makeup artist and hairstylist that works with you and just. It becomes an extension of you and your brand. I love that you said that. Okay, so number two is how do you spend your time when you're not.

[B]

Working Honestly, right now I chase my kids. They are two and a half and they are busy and they are just into everything and learning so much. And so, you know, we have a big kind of backyard oasis for them. And if I'm not editing, if I'm not, you know, working on my computer, making client phone calls, we are outside playing or finding things to get into around town.

[A]

Awesome. That sounds fun. Two toddlers. That's hard.

[B]

Yeah, it's hard. Yeah.

[A]

All right, number three is. What is your favorite inspirational quote?

[B]

Something that I always think about is when sue said, see it, be it, say it, do it. And it really stood out to me because, like, I wanted to be somebody that followed through that. If you say you're going to do something, then you have to kind of follow up and do it. And I think about that a lot. What life do I see? How can I be that? You know, that quote has just really always stood out to me on this journey for sure.

[A]

Awesome. I love that. All right, and number four is, what would you tell people who are just starting out?

[B]

The best advice I have for you, honestly, is to just take your time. I think when I left teaching, it had changed a lot. I wouldn't say that it made me super happy to be there, but it did give me the financial freedom to pursue my business. I wasn't desperate for business because I had that full time income coming in. And I think it allowed me to put the right positive energy into my business and not be desperate for business. It allowed me to grow the business I wanted, not the business I had to have because I needed that income.

[A]

I love that.

[B]

Yeah, it's easy to get impatient. You know, it's easy to get sucked into the drama of the full time job. So you have to kind of be careful with that. But I think being in a situation that you need, need, need the money, it can be really stressful.

[A]

Mm, that's great advice. All right, last question is, where can people find you if they're looking for you online?

[B]

You can find me under the accredited photographers tab. I actually have been working through the accreditation process, so you can find me there. You can find me on Instagram and Facebook and you know, my website is Whitney Collins Photography, so you can find me on any of those social media platforms.

[A]

Fantastic. Well, thank you, Whitney. I really appreciate you sharing everything with us. And yeah, this has been really great. I'm excited for you just to see where, where you head with things and.

[B]

Yeah, thank you again. Awesome. Thank you.

[A]

All right, I'll talk to you soon. Thank you so much for listening to the Portrait System podcast. Your 5 star reviews really help us to continue what we do. So if you like listening, would you mind giving us a review wherever you listen? I also encourage you to head over to sue briceducation.com where you can find all of the education you need to be a successful photographer. There are over 1000 on demand educational videos on things like posing, lighting, styling, retouching, shooting, marketing, sales, business and self value. There's also the 90 day startup challenge plus so many downloads showing hundreds of different poses. We have to do checklists for your business, lighting PDFs. I mean truly everything to help make you a better photographer and to make you more money. Once Again, that's Sue briceducation.com.