← The Portrait System Podcast
Loading summary
Transcript191 lines
- [00:00]
A
Hey there, it's Nikki Klosser and I want to let you know about an awesome free giveaway for people on our email list. If you haven't already, click the link in our podcast description or go to theportraitsystem.com signup to get on the list. If you sign up, you'll get a free posing 101 PDF to jumpstart things. It's an epic PDF, so you'll definitely want to get this. Also, just by being in our email community, you'll get deals, sales, and information about any of our upcoming events and activities. So head over to theportraitsystem.com sign up and sign up. Today you're listening to the Portrait System.
- [00:34]
B
Podcast and if you do the math and do the numbers and you're charging properly, that's really good money. I was at a half a mil for kind of technically working part time.
- [00:47]
A
Welcome to the Portrait System Podcast. I'm your host, Nikki Klosser, and this show is here to help you succeed in the world of photography and business. To help you learn to become financially free, doing what you love and so much more. With over 1 million downloads, countless photographers have taken what they've learned from both our episodes and from theportraitsystem.com and they have grown their businesses, quit their day jobs, and are designing a life of their dreams. We keep it real and share stories about the ups and downs that come with running a photography business. You'll hear real life stories of how other photographers run their business and you'll learn actionable steps that you can take to reach your own goals. Thank you so much for being here. And let's get started. Hi there, it's Nikki Klosser here. And this week on the Portrait System podcast, I have Tanya Smith as my guest. Tanya is a portrait photographer in Canada who started her business after leaving the corporate world and getting divorced. Since then, she built her dream home that she says was built with boudoir because her business is the reason she was able to build the home in the first place. Tanya has a $5,000 sales average and she talks all about how she gets clients in, how she upsells, what her pricing is like and what it includes and a whole lot more. Super excited to introduce to you, Tanya Smith. Hi Tanya. Welcome to the Portrait System. How you doing?
- [02:03]
B
Hey, Nikki, thank you for having me. I'm excited to be here.
- [02:06]
A
Yeah, I've been wanting to have you on for a while, so this worked out really well.
- [02:11]
B
Yes, perfect.
- [02:13]
A
All right, tell us where you're located. And then how long have you been in business?
- [02:17]
B
Yeah, for sure. So I am in Canada. I'm a nice, friendly Canadian girl. I'm very near the US Border, actually. I'm close to Niagara Falls, so I'm close to the Buffalo border. Oh, sweet. And yeah. Yeah, we actually just moved here. Just. We built our dream home. I call it the. The house that boudoir built because, you know, I was able to do this with my business and it's pretty amazing. We're very proud of myself for that. But yeah, so it's. It's great. I've got lots of space here and we love being close to the States because I can hop over and get my Trader Joe's fixed, so.
- [02:53]
A
Oh, nice. No Trader Joe's in Canada.
- [02:56]
B
No, we don't. No target either.
- [02:58]
A
Oh, no.
- [02:59]
B
I know, it's terrible.
- [03:00]
A
My favorite places.
- [03:02]
B
I know.
- [03:03]
A
Okay, so I know you said boudoir, but you also, you focus on not just boudoir, but a range of different portraits, right?
- [03:10]
B
Yeah, so I photograph women, so I just call it portraits for women. It's sort of turned into mostly boudoir, which I love doing, but I also do, you know, branding and headshots and even just some beauty portraits, mother daughter portraits, that sort of thing. But I focus on women. I hardly ever have men in front of my camera very often.
- [03:31]
A
Okay, all right. And would, if you had to kind of divide it up, percentage wise. I mean, I know it's off the top of your head, but how much would be boudoir versus branding and beauty, that sort of thing?
- [03:44]
B
Yeah, I would say 90%. Is boudoir okay?
- [03:47]
A
Yeah, so quite a bit.
- [03:48]
B
Yeah.
- [03:49]
A
But I feel like as far as, like, the business side of things go, I know you'll, you know, you do a lot of boudoir, but I feel like as a. For the business thing, it can be applied to pretty much any genre of portraits.
- [04:02]
B
Absolutely. Yeah.
- [04:03]
A
You know, the way you price things and do things and.
- [04:06]
B
Yeah. And I don't charge differently for a different genre. So if someone comes to me and they want boudoir and then they come back, you know, four months later for a branding session, it's all priced the same to keep it easy for me, easy for clients, so I don't really worry about what genre I do. And if I have repeat clients who want to, you know, bring their family in or their kids in, of course I'll do that. And it's all just priced the same, so. Yeah, it would work for any portrait genre, for sure.
- [04:30]
A
All right, awesome. Okay. So you had mentioned that you built your dream home with some of your photography income, which is incredible. And I'm wondering if you could take us back a little bit. Like, did you do something before photography or have you always been a photographer and I guess just take us back to what that looked like and how you built this great business.
- [04:51]
B
Yeah, I mean, it wasn't, you know, we see a lot of highlights on Instagram and all that kind of stuff. It was a long road for sure. Well, I was corporate banking for a really long time, so numbers and business and all that kind of stuff is my jam. And then I took time off to have my kids. I have two. My kids were young and I took time off to be a stay at home mom. And then I got divorced. So I was looking at. All of a sudden I'm a single mom and I have two young kids. And the thought of going back to my corporate 9 to 5 was just. It was just terrible. This is when they needed me the most and I couldn't just all of a sudden up and go back to work. So I always, I always did art and I was always painting and, you know, I even did a few little art shows and I thought I could do that. And then I was thinking maybe fine art photography, because, you know, I picked up a camera when I had my kids like a lot of us do, and I thought I could do that. But right after the divorce, one of my friends sent me a link to a boudoir photo shoot and she said, you should do this for yourself.
- [05:53]
A
Right? Like, not as a photographer, but as a client.
- [05:55]
B
Yeah, no, Like, I didn't photograph people at all. And I thought, you know what, this sounds great. I talked to the photographer, she made me feel amazing. And I thought, you know what? I'm going to do it. And I was nervous and, you know, I felt all the things and I did it. I loved it. And I showed my friends. I'm like, look at this, look at these photos. These are so great. And they said, oh, I want to do it too. You should do it for me, because I know how to use a camera. And I was like, no, I'm not going to take photos of you. I take photos of children and landscapes. And one client, one friend of mine who was a model in her twenties, she talked me into it and I thought, how hard could this be? She's gorgeous. You know, I just got to point my camera at her and it's gonna work. And it was terrible. Her photos. I managed to Make a beautiful woman look worse than she does in real life.
- [06:41]
A
And I thought, everyone thinks it's so easy, like, oh, all you have to do is get a fancy camera and it's good to go. You know, that's right.
- [06:47]
B
And you just tell someone, okay, smile. Yeah, they look terrible. And I didn't even show her. I told her that something happened to the card, and it didn't work. I wouldn't even show her. So, you know, I kind of put that to bed. I was still trying to think of what I was going to do. And, like, you know, weeks later, I pull up her photos, and I thought, you know what? Maybe if I, you know, step to the right a little bit or she bent her leg a little bit more in here, it would look better. And I thought I would try again. You know, sometimes we step away from it and look again. So I said, let's do it again. And we did. And I took my time and I sort of guided her more and made, you know, tweaked her here and there. And the photos were still really bad, but they were better. And I did show them to her, and she cried when she saw them. And I thought, wow, okay, this is something, because this felt amazing. I loved making her feel like that and making her see herself in a different way. Yeah, go ahead.
- [07:44]
A
I was just going to say it's interesting that you say you took your time, because I think what happens when people first start out, me included, is it's like we want the client to think. Maybe think we know what we're doing or whatever, and we just kind of like, even if we know we're not getting what we want, we just keep going and click, click, click, click, click. And I remember when I was first learning this was back in early 2012, and I was photographing my friend Jill, who ultimately, sue took Jill and I to Paris and did the whole Light that Shines documentary of my friend. Anyway, I. Jill and I had rented a hotel room. She was visiting me from Kentucky, and, you know, she had breast cancer. And I wanted to do just, like, a special day for her. And I remembered thinking, like, okay, I'm really going to take my time with this. And I had Sue's education playing, and I would pose Jill, and then, like. Or I would watch a little bit of what sue was saying. I would pause it, and I'd be like, okay, Jill. And I would, like, move her. And I was completely taking my time. I was making sure the reflector was where it was supposed to be, and all the Things. And these photos turned out so beautiful. And I swear it was because I was watching the education, pausing it, practicing, and taking my time with her. And it made such a difference. Like, if I didn't have that, I don't think I would have. It just would not have turned out as good at all.
- [09:05]
B
Yeah, I agree. I think we do feel like I don't want the client to think that I don't know what I'm doing, or I don't want them to see me referring to my phone. But the client does not care. And in fact, I've had clients many times say, I love how you take your time and how you make sure everything is perfect before you click the camera. And I thought, oh, okay, that's. It's a good thing. Because I thought they would think it was not as well.
- [09:27]
A
Yeah, yeah. I mean, and because I was with one of my best friends, you know, I felt really comfortable to slow down and, like, look at my education or whatever. And I think there's a balance there. Like, once you are professionally, you know, clients are paying you a lot of money and that sort of thing. Yes. We can stop and refer to our notes or refer to our phone or whatever. 100%, that's normal. But I also think there is something to be said for really practicing and getting poses nailed down and things like that as well. You know what I mean? But when you're first starting out, like people, it's like no one cares. They'd rather you get it right and take your time.
- [10:02]
B
Yeah. They care that they have photos of themselves that they love. That's all they care about. Even at the beginning, I was shooting out of my home, like, literally out of my master bedroom. And I would move. I think you did, too, but I would move everything out of my master bedroom. Change the sheets on the bed, change the night tables. You know, like, it was a big production, and I thought, oh, this just doesn't look good. And I'm having people come to my home and go into my bedroom. Nobody cares. Nobody cared at all how small the space was. Nothing. So.
- [10:29]
A
Yeah, exactly. I always say that it doesn't matter where you're doing it. What matters is the finished product and how you made them feel during the time.
- [10:38]
B
Exactly. I know you talked about that, too, in a lot of shooting in small spaces. And you can make any space work. You really can.
- [10:45]
A
Absolutely. Yeah. That video is so old now, but it was. I think it was from 2016. It's on the portrait system and the membership. Shooting in small spaces. And that was my 300 square foot studio that Tanya. I made hundreds of thousands of dollars in this tiny little converted one car garage that I rented and some other family, like, lived in the actual house. And I made hundreds of thousands of dollars.
- [11:09]
B
Yeah, it was crazy because it doesn't matter if you show someone a photo of themselves that they love. That's all that matters. And how you make them feel during the shoot. Of course.
- [11:17]
A
Yeah. Okay, so you did that with the second time with your friend who cried and take us from there.
- [11:24]
B
Yeah. So then I thought, okay, well, I want to do this. So I started, you know, doing it with friends or friends of friends. You know, Jackie would send me go see Tanya. And so it was kind of not like real yet. I'm doing air quotes. So I was doing a lot of practice, a lot of practicing with different women and friends of friends. And I finally started to charge and, you know, I think couple hundred bucks and you can have all the digitals like we all did. And then it was around there that I found sue. And I started learning and watching that part and the posing and how. How you make people feel. And that was like I was obsessed and watching everything. I went to the very first Portrait Masters in. What was it, 2017, when it was super, super hot. Do you remember that?
- [12:11]
A
Oh, yeah. It was so hot in Palm Springs.
- [12:14]
B
Yep.
- [12:14]
A
It was like 107 degrees or something.
- [12:18]
B
I've never experienced heat like that. I was like, oh, my God, it's so hot and everyone's sweating and. Yeah, but it was great. And then I thought, you know what? I know a lot about business too. Like, I. This is where I came from. I should be utilizing this.
- [12:30]
A
Oh, yeah, with your background. Yeah, for sure.
- [12:32]
B
And so I really started paying attention to, you know, the non fun, boring side, which is the numbers in the business. And I sort of got into a way to sell and a way to talk to people about prices and a way to charge more without working more because I started taking on more shoots. And if someone wanted to shoot with me, I'd be like, okay, I have opening on Thursday. Instead of saying, no, I already have my two shoots for this week. I'm gonna put you the next week or the following week. And everything just sort of fell into place. And I just started being more confident with shooting and more confident talking about my prices. I always had sue in my head forever where she would say, you would say your price and then sh up. And that was a really, really hard thing for me to do. To say it. And then Stop talking. But it really worked. And the more you do it, the easier it gets.
- [13:24]
A
Yeah. So what did you start implementing, like, as far as pricing structure and what you were actually saying to people to get? Well, you know, it's like getting people in the door is one thing, but also getting your sales average to what you need it to be so that you don't have to shoot more than twice a week.
- [13:39]
B
Yes.
- [13:40]
A
And then I. Maybe three times a week.
- [13:42]
B
Yeah. Like, I was. I was doing. For a while, I was doing two. I would say two and a half times a week. Where I do shoot two times. The next week would be three, two, three. And that's when I hired an assistant because it was just too much. I was exhausted after every shoot. But I started kind of working backwards with my numbers because my kids were still young. I was still trying to get adjusted. They were still trying to get adjusted. And I wanted to shoot less. I love doing it, but I was getting burnt out and I wasn't home enough for the kids. But I wanted to make the same amount of money as I was making. So the. The logical thing is to raise your prices, which is scary no matter when you do it or how many times you do it.
- [14:20]
A
Totally. It's still scary to me when I raise my prices.
- [14:24]
B
Yes, it still is. Even if you only go a hundred dollars, you're still like, oh, I don't know, this is too much. Yeah, it's scary. And it always will be. I guess you just do it scared. But I did the spreadsheet. So I did my cost of doing business and my cost of goods so that I knew what numbers I was looking at and what I needed to charge to make it work and to reach the goals that I wanted to reach for income and for time worked. So I made sure I took time off. I took. Once I got going, I took every Friday and Monday off. Like, literally off. And I was with my kids. But then the rest of the days I worked, and I worked a lot, and it was mostly marketing because if you want to be booked consistently, you know, you gotta. You gotta keep people coming in the pipeline. So I was able to spread out my shoots so that I started doing one or one and a half, I'd say a week. So one week I'd do one shoot, the next week I'd do two. And I did that for quite a while. And if you do the math and do the numbers and you're charging properly, that's really good money. I was at a half a mil for kind of Technically, working part time.
- [15:30]
A
Wow.
- [15:31]
B
Yeah.
- [15:31]
A
Half a million a year.
- [15:33]
B
Yeah. In. In sales. Not in gross income, of course. Right. In sales. Yeah.
- [15:37]
A
Because that's incredible.
- [15:38]
B
Yeah. I was making and I still to this day, my average is 5,000, you know, per client. And yes, it fluctuates, you know, around there. But yeah, so I get a lot of people who say no because it's too price too high. But that's okay because I'm not trying to be busier. Right. I'm trying to be profitable. So, yeah, that was a big thing to get into my head. It's okay that out of 10 inquiries, seven of them say no. That's okay.
- [16:04]
A
Yep, Absolutely. Okay. Something you said is, you know, you have to get people in the door consistently. And I say this a lot when I speak, you know, when I'm teaching, I'm like, okay, listen, you can be the best photographer in the world. You can have the coolest personality, you can have just like a kick ass portfolio or whatever, but it literally means nothing if you're not marketing yourself.
- [16:28]
B
Yep.
- [16:28]
A
You have to market yourself. And I know sometimes people don't want to hear that because it's like I was in the portrait system Facebook group the other day and someone was like, I don't know why I'm not getting clients. I'm posting on Facebook. And I'm like. Or something along those lines, you know, which. Yeah, posting on Facebook, it's great. But what else are you doing? Because I wish it was that easy and it's, you know, it's not.
- [16:50]
B
Yeah. I think the problem is, is a while ago, like in 7, 20, 17, 18, 19, it almost was that easy. Like you almost could just, you know, post on your Instagram or talk about, you know, show a behind the scenes shoot and you get bookings. But it hasn't been that easy in quite a long time. And just like any business, most of it is marketing. You should be kind of doing all the things and that takes more time than shooting and editing. So I do think, unfortunately we go into it because we love taking photos and we love, you know, making people feel great and, you know, showing them photos. But Honestly, it's probably 20% of your job and the rest should be marketing so that you can have shoots that make you money and be consistently booked.
- [17:34]
A
Yep. What would you say has been your biggest marketing tool overall that has consistently brought people in?
- [17:42]
B
I know people don't love hearing this, but I will kind of say word of mouth, but it takes a really long time to get word of Mouth working. So right now, a lot of my clients, my bookings come from other clients. But that's only because I've been shooting since 2011. Right? Yeah, yeah, for sure. But at the beginning, it was actually in person things. So I would go to events, I would do women's shows, I would do bridal shows, I would go to, you know, pop ups, I would donate to silent auctions. When people meet you in person, then they are so easily able to refer you to their friends. You gotta find out, you gotta go see this photographer and she does these kind of photos and she's so great. And here's photos she did of me and just kind of literally walking down stores down by kind of our lakeshore area, you know, where there was boutiques and walking into the boutiques and offering shoots to the store owners so that they could, you know, put my little card there for other people to see and they could speak to them about it because they had the experience that was the biggest thing.
- [18:52]
A
So part of it was, you know, obviously the in person thing in getting out there or whatever, but a lot of it sounds like it was business to business marketing too.
- [18:59]
B
Yeah, at the beginning it was. And in fact, at the beginning, even though I wanted to do more boudoir, I was actually doing more branding and headshots at the beginning. But then whenever I got a woman in front of the camera and do her branding shots, I would say, hey, here's other things, kinds of photos that I do. And I would show her some, you know, nice tasteful boudoir images. And I'm like, how about we do a couple of those at the end? And they always loved it and they always bought those ones. So that's sort of how I kind of pushed it so that I could do more boudoir. And then I started showing more of what I wanted to shoot. So I would show more boudoir and less of the branding images.
- [19:33]
A
That's awesome. Yeah, I'm such a big proponent of that, of trying to convert whatever client, you know, if they're coming in for one thing. Like back when I wanted to do more, more personal branding. I mean, now that's mostly all I do and seniors do, but mostly personal branding. And when I was doing a lot of families and just like glamour, that sort of thing, I would say, like, by the way, you know, does anyone need headshots or do you, you know, do you need any sort of updated photos for your business? Or like, there's this one family where I knew the dad worked at Microsoft and the mom, I believe, worked at Boeing or something like that. And I ended up doing headshots for both of them. And then their colleagues saw their headshots, and this was just for a family shoot initially, but their colleagues saw their headshots and then I ended up getting clients that way. And it's just a really good way to add in a new genre as you're trying to convert, because it's hard if you only shoot family and you're trying to get into personal branding. It's like, how do you make that jump when you're only getting inquiries for family? You know, you have to let people know that this is what you're doing. And sometimes people are gonna go, nope, don't need headshots. And that's fine, you know, but maybe the next person will. And so it's. It was a good way for me to get my shift, my genre.
- [20:45]
B
I think we have to get more comfortable offering help to our clients. Like, they don't know what they don't know. So, you know, I always say, you're here, you're in front of a professional photographer, you've got your hair and your makeup done. What other images should we do? Like, what. What else do you need? And. And normally, you know, for the consultation, I know a little bit about them. I know if they have their own business, I know, you know, what kind of images they might need. I know if they have young kids, maybe you should come in and get some family photos. I mean, we are the experts and we should be helping our clients get the most out of the experience with us.
- [21:20]
A
I really like that. I really like that you just said that. I think what happens sometimes is we feel icky about selling. Even when someone is, you know, inquiring or asking about our services, we feel weird selling them the photo shoot and charging them the money. But it's like, if we can flip our mindset to, I'm actually helping this person, like, especially for personal branding because, well, in Boudoir too. I mean, all of them, really. But with personal branding, I know that with these professional photos, they are going to make more money and book more clients because they are going to have professional, gorgeous photos for their marketing, to post more on social media, you know, for their website, for their LinkedIn, and that ultimately is going to draw in more clients. Like, I'm helping them. Yes, they're paying me $2,000, but I'm helping them in the end. Or like with Boudoir, you are giving them this, like, gift of feeling beautiful. And confident and sexy and comfortable. And, I mean, how amazing is that?
- [22:16]
B
Yeah. And even it's sort of flipped now. So every time I have a boudoir client, at the end, I say, let's do a portrait. Oh, I don't need a portrait. I just want boudoir images. And I say the same thing. You've got your hair and your makeup done. Let's do a portrait so you have an image you can share. But also it's. I want them to share because most don't show share their boudoir images. So there's a portrait you can update your Facebook headshot or something, but at least people can see that and they'll share it. But also it's another image that they're going to buy.
- [22:44]
A
That's really smart because that is a way to get your name out there more. Because if people share it, most often than not, they're going to mention you and tag you and that sort of thing. And a lot of people are not comfortable sharing their boudoir photos, understandably.
- [22:56]
B
Right? Yeah. So, exactly.
- [22:58]
A
Yeah, that's funny. But, yeah, it really is going back to that. How is this helping people? Like, and I still go through this every time I switch into something new, I swear. Like, I, you know, you know, I'm an educator now, and I know you are an educator now as well. And I just, I launched these new Lightroom brushes, and I. Tanya, I love these Lightroom brushes. Like, I use them all the time on every photo. And I've been using them for years. And when I decided I was gonna sell them, I felt kind of like, like, icky selling them. And then I realized, what are you doing? Like, these are gonna help people save so much time and, you know, help so many photographers save time, make their photos look better. Like, why do I feel icky about selling this? Why do we do this to ourselves?
- [23:41]
B
Yeah.
- [23:42]
A
Hey, just a quick break to tell you that since you're here listening, you have access to a really great offer for our listeners only. We have a special promo code you can use to get 50% off the cost of membership. Just go to theportraitsystem.com or click the link in the description and use the promo code. Podcast 50 to get 50% off of a membership. We rarely discount membership, so this is a big deal. As I hope you already know, the membership is half. I and so many guests on this podcast reached our success, and it gives you access to countless amazing videos, an awesome community, and all the tools you need to build a massively Successful business. So use the code podcast50Now to join the community and to start building the business of your dreams. I'll see you there.
- [24:27]
B
We get into our head, and really, it's. The mindset part is probably the most important part, that you have to learn and adjust, and it never ends. I always say business doesn't get easier, you just get better. But you do have to constantly do it. Like you said, even you right now. And it's kind of, you know, you'll get that. 20 people will say how amazing those lightroom brushes are. And one person will go, I don't want it. These are useless. I don't use presets. And that's the one that's going to stick in your head. And I don't know why we do that to ourselves, but it's a. It's a struggle. It's a fight every day to, you know, not take a turn.
- [25:06]
A
Yeah. How do. How do you get past that? You know, how do you.
- [25:13]
B
I always say I give it a name. The inner voice, your inner critic. I kind of give it a name, and it's a person that. I was a friend of mine a long time ago, and she's not a nice person, and she is someone that I would never take business advice from. Never. So if she said to me, you know, this is not a great idea to do for business, that would be the first thing I would do for business. Because, you know, so sometimes when something like that happens and goes, why are you doing this? This isn't going to work. No one's ever going to buy this. No one's going to want this. I think, that's not me, that's Amy. And then when I do that and switch it, it's easier. It's easier for me to dismiss it because the thoughts are always going to come. You know, you just have to figure out how to kind of acknowledge that it's just a thought and nothing more and. And just dismiss it. That's it. It's work. You have to do it all the time.
- [26:05]
A
Yeah, yeah. It's really shifting that. That mindset. And it's not like we're holding people down and stealing their wallets when they come in for a photo shoot.
- [26:14]
B
Right.
- [26:14]
A
You know? Yeah.
- [26:16]
B
And it's okay if people say, wow, that's super expensive. And I go, yeah, yeah, it is. You know, it's people like, what do you say when someone said that this is expensive and this is too much for photos? You don't say anything. You're not going to Convince that person ever that it's not expensive, they're just not your client. And it's okay for sure.
- [26:34]
A
Let's talk a little bit about how you got your sales average up to 5,000. So, you know, was it a gradual jump? You know, so just talk a little bit about how you bumped it up and then also tell us about your packages and what they include.
- [26:49]
B
Yeah, sure. So I started doing it gradually. You know, I went from 300 to 400 and then 600 and then 700. I actually remember my jumping it to $700. And I remember my first client going, yeah, okay, and writing a check for. And I was like, whoa. She just gave me $700. And I was blown away. Like, my voice was shaking when I was saying it to her. And now I don't even. I won't even shoot for less than. My minimum price is seventeen hundred and ninety dollars. So it's funny, you know, to look back about how nervous I was at $700. But I started doing it gradually, and then I realized that when you're at 3 or 4 or 5 or $700, you're at that bracket where people who are looking for a deal will book you. And then when you're at three or four or $2,000, then you're at the higher end where people want a full luxury experience. But when you're stuck in the middle at, you know, $900, 1,200, you're kind of priced average. And that's actually the hardest place to get people because you're going to be too expensive for the people that are looking for a deal, and then you're going to be too cheap for people looking for a luxury experience.
- [27:59]
A
So interesting.
- [28:00]
B
I was raising my prices bit by bit, and I was getting people booking. And then all of a sudden I didn't. And I wasn't getting hardly anybody. And I thought, what is happening? Why is this happening? And then when I did my numbers, like I was mentioning, did my spreadsheet, and I realized, oh, wow, like, to meet my goals, I need to make. I think it was $3,100 per client, you know, average. So I made that my middle package. And I jumped from. I think I was at about $1,200, and I jumped from there to $3,100.
- [28:31]
A
Wow, that's a big jump.
- [28:33]
B
Yeah. And it's honestly made me like, I was actually nauseous. My stomach was nauseous. Like, it was the first time I. The first time. The first 10 times I said my price out Loud. I was physically ill. I did not feel good. And then I started getting people booking. I got a lot of no's and I thought, oh, I should lower my prices. But then someone booked and they loved it. And they thanked me when they were handing me a check for $3,100, which I think sue says that too. Like it's. It is a crazy experience. And then I'd get more no's. And then I got someone. I was at a party and they said, what do you do? And I told them I'm a photographer and oh, I want to get my photos done. How much do you charge? And I say, I'm expensive. And then, you know, they kept going. And at this point, I wouldn't even have gotten into it at a party. But then I did. And when I told them people spend 3100 dol dollars, they asked me how do I sleep at night? And I thought, oh God, like I'm not. I'm not sick enough charging that. And then I get, you know, so, yeah, it was terrible. So I did a big jump and it took a while to get traction and. And I basically was looking for a whole new client. You know, them from what I was shooting before. So I would say that took quite a few months of marketing and finding my client before I started getting bookings again. And then I just got. Got tons of bookings. They were all great clients who I loved working with. And they started telling their friends about it, and that was the biggest thing. And I always ask them if they will tell who you're going to tell that you had this shoot. Did you show your sister? You know, that kind of stuff. But yeah, so it's. It's not easy. And anyone who says, hey, just raise your prices. It's not easy, but if you want to do this for the long haul, you got to make sure that you're charging what you need to be charging so that you don't burn out. Because you'll either burn out or you'll raise your prices.
- [30:16]
A
Yeah, exactly. And that's a really good way to put it. I mean, you really do have two choices. It's burnout or raise them. And there are ways to kind of soften the blow a little bit. Like when I raise my prices significantly way back when. I mean, now when I raise them, it's usually just like 100 bucks, 200 bucks. But back then when I was like, okay, this is. I know my cost of goods now, and I'm screwed if I don't raise them significantly.
- [30:39]
B
Exactly.
- [30:39]
A
I still needed that income, so I couldn't handle a lot of no's. Like, I needed a lot of yeses. So what I did was I used the, you know, the gift voucher system where I would say, okay, the session fees on me come in at no risk. And, I mean, the risk was to me. I was paying hair and makeup out of pocket. But at that point, I was confident enough that I could provide a service that I knew they would love and I knew I could create beautiful photos for them. So I had that in my back pocket that I felt. I mean, was I perfect? No. Was I the most amazing? No. When I look back at some of those photos, do I cringe?
- [31:11]
B
Yes. Yes.
- [31:13]
A
But that's okay. We all start somewhere and. But they were professional enough. Yeah, you know, they were. They were professional. That's, you know, we just grow and learn so much that back then I thought they were amazing anyway. Yeah. So, you know, using a gift voucher, or even if you offer someone, you know, if you raise your prices where your starting package is now $1000 or 1200 or whatever or higher, you can say, okay, but I also have a $300 gift voucher for you if you use it by March 1 or something like that, and then that takes the price down, or there are just little ways that you can get through. Or, hey, if we do this personal branding session, I'll throw in a family shoot for you as well. And then you just do a little mini session that isn't really no sweat off your back sort of thing. Exactly. Yeah. And then they're like, oh, it's a two for one. So really it's family and personal branding for 2000 dol, as opposed to just one or the other. So there are just. There are ways that you can cushion it. So it's not so scary, I guess.
- [32:14]
B
Absolutely. Yeah. And the voucher is. I use that for quite a while. In fact, once I raise those prices up high, I don't think I did a full price for months without, because I did vouchers for so long, and I handed them out kind of everywhere. And so, yes, it doesn't say, you know, come in for a free shoot. It says, come in for a shoot valued at $2,000. Here's a gift card for $2,000. So, you know, yes, it's a free shoot or a discounted shoot, but the client understands that it's got a value to it.
- [32:44]
A
And that helps, too, when they tell their friends, if someone comes in, like, well, she got it for blah Blah, blah. And it's like, oh, well, at the time, I was running a promotion for a gift voucher. Although I've never had anyone say that.
- [32:56]
B
Me neither.
- [32:56]
A
I've never had that. But the question always comes up, well, what about when someone else says, oh, but they. You only charge so and so. I've never had that come up.
- [33:06]
B
No. And I don't think people. I think, like, if I was showing you, oh, look, look, Nikki, look at my beautiful photos I got. I don't think you'd be like, how much? What did she charge you? And what was the deal? And how. I don't know that people would do that. But you're right. I've never had anyone say, hey, my friend got a voucher. How come I don't have a voucher? I've never had that.
- [33:22]
A
Yeah, yeah. All right, so let's talk a little bit about your packages and what you include.
- [33:28]
B
Yeah. So it's. I tried all the things. I tried a bunch of different things, but my biggest kind of aha moment was when I just made it super, super simple. So all I do is charge per image. And it kind of blows people's minds when I say this, but I charge per image, and it does not matter what format it's in. So people say, you know, I say my packages start at $1,790 and go up to $4,200 or more. And then I say, most women will spend this as I'm showing it to them, which is the middle package, which is $3,300, which is my goal. So I say, most women will spend this. And then if they want it in a 10 by 10 album, those 20 images, it's the same price. If they want it 20 images digitally, same price. So there's no confusion. If they want it in a folio box, same price. So I make sure the most expensive thing. I actually don't offer a folio box anymore, but when I did, that was the most expensive. And whatever my cost of goods was for that is how I set my pricing. So obviously, if they got digitals, I made more profit, But I never had to worry about, what if I only get the digitals, Is it cheaper? What if I do this? It's just that's how much it is per image, no matter what format it's in.
- [34:39]
A
Okay, very cool. And then how do you get your average up? Are you selling additional products and images?
- [34:45]
B
I do, but mostly, like, my middle package is what I tell people. It's like 20, 20 images, but I tell them, I'm gonna show you 40 to 50 of your best images. They're all fully image. Edit it, and you're gonna love them all. So when they sit down, I kind of go, I told you, it's gonna be really hard to narrow it down to 20. And it really is. Like, they usually just kind of. They usually end up getting a higher package. And then if they want the digital copies, that's an add on. If they decide to put it in an album and they want the digital copies, it's an add on. I also have.
- [35:16]
A
Okay, so they don't get both. Like, if they just want the album.
- [35:19]
B
Yes.
- [35:20]
A
Then they just get the album without the digitals. If they just want the digitals, they get the digitals without the album.
- [35:24]
B
Right. And then if they want both, there's the main charge, say $3,300, and then there's an upsell of 690 for the digital copies of what they purchased. But I can also use that as a selling feature if they're stuck between the $3,300 package and the $3,900 package. And I say, you know what? I don't want to see you get rid of these images because I know you love them. What if you get them all, you know, for 3, 900 or whatever it is, and I give you the digital copies for free or I'll give it as my gift. So it doesn't cost me anything. I was probably going to give it to them anyway.
- [36:00]
A
Right.
- [36:00]
B
And. Right. But yeah, they see that it's got a value of 700. They just got a free, you know, 700 upgrade. So I use that a lot as kind of a selling feature.
- [36:11]
A
Yeah, that's smart. I like that.
- [36:13]
B
All right, very cool.
- [36:14]
A
Who do you. Who do you use for your. Just out of curiosity.
- [36:18]
B
For my albums.
- [36:19]
A
Yeah.
- [36:19]
B
Yeah, I use uaf. They're here in Toronto, but they ship worldwide. Yeah, but their stuff is really, really, really nice. Like, I'm super happy with their product. And I drop ship right to my clients. I never see the product. Nice. Yeah, I've got my samples, but it's the. They drop it and they put white gloves in there for them and a little how to care for it. And yeah, it's quite a nice presentation. And they. Yeah, their stuff is really nice.
- [36:45]
A
Drop ship is the best.
- [36:47]
B
It's so good.
- [36:48]
A
So much time to dealing with products.
- [36:50]
B
Yeah. And I tell people too. I'm like, oh, no problem. I'm gonna ship this. I'm gonna pay to ship this to you no charge. You know, kind of add that on as it's like, wow, they're so impressed that I would ship it to them and pay for the shipping. It's nice.
- [37:02]
A
Yeah, Very cool. All right, tell us a little bit about, you know, kind of the experience. Are you, you know, doing multiple different looks? Do you include hair and makeup? So what is, what does all of that look like?
- [37:15]
B
Yeah, so I have, I have a hair and makeup artist. She's been with me almost since the beginning. I went through a bunch of hair and makeup artists and found her and she is just amazing. And Eva has been with me for quite a while. So she comes and, you know, puts lashes on and does all that and then she leaves. I don't have her stay because it's boudoir and people. The less amount of people, the better. I think if it was a branding session or I would have her stay and do different looks, but she leaves. I have an assistant in there who's also amazing and it's just myself, Jordan, my assistant, and the client. And then, you know, I just guide her through the shoot. We shoot for about an hour and a half maybe. And I get, I mean, it's, it's like a well oiled machine now. I, I go through my poses very easily.
- [38:00]
A
That's what happens when you practice a lot. I'm telling you, like my. I'm sure you're like me, where you just have your standards and you just like whip, whip through them and then, you know, you can get a little creative at the end and try new things or whatever.
- [38:11]
B
But yeah, if the client is down for it, I will. Like, my studio is in like an old cotton factory and it's got some really cool, like, it's got a cool stairwell, it's got like an outside smokestack. So if the client is feeling adventurous and still has energy, we can do some fun shoots outside. And those always sell because they're very cool, but usually they're pretty tired. And also because it's boudoir, they're not. And they're not super excited about going outside in their lingerie, so.
- [38:38]
A
Right, right.
- [38:39]
B
But the ones that do the shots are so great. But yeah, it's about. I used to shoot for two and a half hours and now it's literally an hour and a half and that's it. Like, I'm talking to them during the shoot. Like while they're changing, I'll talk to them through the, the door and I'll just be, you know, did you tell anybody that you're doing this shoot and like I said, you know. Yeah, I told my sister a couple people from work so that I know I'm trying to plant the seed to share their images and tell people about the experience. And we just have a really fun day and she goes home and I tell her she'll hear from me in like seven to 10 days. But I always ask her back in five days before right over, under promise, over deliver. And they're always surprised at how quick it is. And then they come back in for the in person reveal session, which I would always recommend especially for boudoir. And by in person it can also be over zoom. Yeah, but I mean, doing it with people and not, you know, sending them an online gallery and just asking them to pick it themselves. I tried that just a few times and it was just. I just ended up chasing them to get them to. It's because it's a job and they don't know what they're doing. So the reveal session is great. We have a great time. I literally have Kleenex box beside my computer because they almost always cry, which is kind of cool. But yeah. And then, and then I just talk to them so that I have a pre in person consultation too. So I go over all of my prices at the beginning and I know that most women will look at the lowest package and see if they're okay with it. You know, I say my Packages start at 1790, so I know in their head they're thinking, oh, I hope I like seven images because that's all they get for that one. Right. The more images they buy, the less it is per image. So it's attractive for them to go up in images. But I even say that to them. I say, I know that you're hoping that you're going to find seven images that you love, but I promise you, you're gonna love them all. I can say that confidently because it's been so long. But yeah, yeah, I think that's what happens is as long as they're good with the $1790, then they're good and they'll book. Very cool.
- [40:49]
A
And then for your in person sales session, are you showing them a slideshow or you know, what does that look like?
- [40:57]
B
Yeah, it's just super simple. I have my 27 inch iMac in there and I just put it on Lightroom, you know, not even a slideshow. I just go through them. In Lightroom. I used to show an animoto video of behind the scenes, but I took that off. Not for any reason. It just was adding to my workflow afterwards for editing that. And I thought, what would happen if I didn't show the video? And the answer is nothing. I still made my average sale, so I stopped doing that. They're just excited to see their images. So I just put it in Lightroom, and I just go through it like that. And I say, I do the first round, and I say, I'm gonna show you them all real quick, and if there's any that happen to jump out at you that you just don't like, or maybe I caught an expression that you don't love, let me know, and I'll delete it. And I always say, delete it, even though we know we're not deleting them. So usually that first pass, there's never a photo that they. That they say no to, unless I really did catch some sort of expression that they didn't like. And then I just go through it a couple more times and narrow it down.
- [41:59]
A
I'm kind of, like, laughing to myself because I realize what leads me to kind of burnout in my business is doing the same thing over and over and over and over. And I found myself. The last couple slideshows that I was making over the last, I don't know, a month and a half, two months, it was like, sticking pins in my eyes. I was just like, oh, my God. Because it's like, the same thing. And it's not that I don't love their photos, and it's not that I don't love their slideshow, and I know they're gonna love their. It's the process of. I could do it with my eyes closed. And it's something. I don't know if I need to, like, start mixing things up or whatever, but, oh, my gosh, it's so funny. And as I hear you say that, I'm like, do I really need that slideshow?
- [42:47]
B
Yeah. And that is exactly what happened. I think as creat, we like to be, you know, stimulated more and doing. It's really great when we can do things over and over again and do them in our sleep and the poses. But I found that, too, as I was. I was going, oh, my gosh. It's the same poses every time. I'm saying the same things. I'm doing the same kind of jokes, you know, while I'm doing it. So the fix for that for me, is to do a creative shoot and do it even though you kind of go, I don't really have time. And I Have to work on my business. But to take time to do a creative shoot every few months really does help. Help you get out of that, you know, kind of funk. But, yeah, I found that with the Animoto because I had the template set up, which is super easy to just drag and drop in the videos and the images and it's done. But it was. Yeah, it was just getting a little boring. The same music, everything. Yeah. And yes, the client did love it, but I thought, is it going to take away from the experience? But it didn't. So I haven't used the slideshow, the Animoto slideshow in probably three, four years now. So.
- [43:49]
A
Yeah. Okay. Very cool. Yeah, you're right. It is important to do these creative shoots from time to time. And granted, you know, when there are times that I start to feel, like, bored.
- [44:03]
B
Yeah.
- [44:03]
A
I try to remind myself, this is not boring to the client. This is the first time that, you know, usually, unless it's a repeat client, this is the first time they're experiencing this. So it's not. It's not boring to them, you know, And I've got to remember I'm helping them, and I have to make this special for them. And this is my bread and butter. Like this helps pay my bills. Like this. This pays my bills. You know what I mean? So in the moments where I start, like, would I rather be doing this or be a social worker? Yeah, this. Definitely this, you know, so, yeah, we can get bored, but I think sometimes it's important to put ourselves in check. But if there's a way we can mediate that. No, remedy that. Mitigate. Mitigate that.
- [44:47]
B
Yeah.
- [44:48]
A
You know what I mean? And. And make it not so boring for us, then. Yeah, I think we should do that.
- [44:53]
B
Yeah. And for me, that's what it is, is a creative shoot. Like, even if it means just dragging my daughter into the studio and being like, let's take some photos. You know, just anything that's different than what I usually do, and then it usually. That's usually good. Or it just means I need. I need a little break and I need to take maybe a week off or something.
- [45:09]
A
Yep, yep. Yeah. Taking some time off is. Is definitely crucial. I. I had taken a little bit of time off earlier in the year from doing. Doing shoots and, well, from doing personal branding. It was during the summer, so I did still have some senior shoots, but that was really helpful for me. And now I'm like, I just felt more refreshed. January is always super busy for me. It's. It's funny because I think, like, family and that sort of thing isn't usually as busy. No, seniors weddings is not as busy. But for personal branding, I don't know what. I think it's because it's like New Year. People know they have goal setting for their businesses and that sort of thing. And like, I'm probably gonna kick myself, but I think I have like eight shoots this month.
- [45:52]
B
Oh, that's great.
- [45:53]
A
Something like that.
- [45:53]
B
Yeah. That's why it's the beginning of the year. They're fired up about their business. They want to get everything ready to go. That's great.
- [46:00]
A
Yeah. And I will say that 8 is a lot for me right now. It used to be that was just normal for me. Eight to ten a month is what I did, but that was all I did, you know, Whereas a couple years ago I added in, you know, the education, just like you did. I know you have education, you know, added in the education. And I do some real estate stuff and I do this podcast. And so eight shoots, I'm gonna. I looked at my husband last night and I was like, okay, so we're going, we're. And we're going on vacation next week. So it's like absolutely insane. I was like, when we get back from vacation, I just want you to know I'm gonna be like a shit show.
- [46:30]
B
Yeah.
- [46:31]
A
So I'm really gonna, you know, like, you're just gonna have to bear with me and step up extra. I mean, we 50, 50 everything. But he. I'm like, you're gonna need to, like real, you know. So anyway.
- [46:43]
B
Yeah, for sure. Yeah, it's. It's hard. You realize all of a sudden you look back and you go, oh, I. I overbooked my calendar. This is not good. And you just gotta head down and just get through it. But yeah, then after January, after those eight shoots, you need to take a little break, I think.
- [46:58]
A
Yeah, for sure. For sure. Sweet. Well, this is awesome. And I know I mentioned before that you are an educator and I wanted to mention something. And this is not to compete with wppi, because WPPI is in person in Vegas. Massively amazing networking, super fun parties, in person, shoots all the things. So I'm not saying to compete with them, but if you are not able to physically go to Vegas or whatever, you offer an online workshop that's coming up January 21st, 22nd, 23rd, the mastery summer. And it's free.
- [47:36]
B
Yes.
- [47:36]
A
And I'm speaking. I'm speaking. Which I'm really excited about. There's a Super awesome list of different topics, which is great. So I just wanted to throw that in there for people who are like, for whatever reason, they can't travel to WPPI and whatever. It's a nice, nice little option.
- [47:51]
B
Yeah. An online conference just for people who can't do the in person one because they get all the FOMO and they don't get to. They don't get to have the experience. So. Yeah.
- [48:00]
A
So, yeah, it's called the Mastery Summit, and people are welcome to message me about it and I'll see if we can drop a link into the episode, but message you or message me about it and we can get them, you know, get you on board. It's free and. Yeah.
- [48:15]
B
Amazing.
- [48:16]
A
Yeah, I'm excited for it.
- [48:17]
B
Yeah, your presentation's very good. I watched it on my. People are gonna love it.
- [48:22]
A
I feel like it's the best one I've done yet. Like, when I finished it, I was like. That felt really good.
- [48:27]
B
Yeah, it is. It's really good.
- [48:29]
A
Thank you.
- [48:30]
B
All right.
- [48:31]
A
Okay. So you're not off the hook yet. I do still have questions that I always ask at the end of each episode.
- [48:36]
B
Okay.
- [48:37]
A
And the first one is, what is something you can't live without when you're doing a photo shoot?
- [48:42]
B
Can I say my assistant? Yeah, yeah, she. I actually got her. I was saying when I was really busy, but I also had. I got. Ended up getting frozen shoulder in both of my shoulders.
- [48:55]
A
I had the same thing.
- [48:57]
B
You know what? It's hormonal, apparently. Menopausal. Pre. Menopausal. Anyway, I had it for three freaking years, Nikki.
- [49:05]
A
Three years. Did you go to physical therapy?
- [49:07]
B
I did everything. I did everything. I ended up getting a cortisone shot. And that's the only thing that fixed it. Yeah, it was brutal. Anyway, I couldn't, you know, move my V flats and do all that stuff, so. And now my assistant is. You know, you see those. Those videos of people going. They're about to say something, and then their assistant gives them exact. Exactly what they need in their hand.
- [49:26]
A
That's Jordan. Like, she's.
- [49:28]
B
She is amazing. She knows exactly what to do, when to do it. So. Yeah, I honestly couldn't do a shoot without her now. Well, I mean, I could.
- [49:35]
A
That's incredible.
- [49:35]
B
I wouldn't want to.
- [49:36]
A
I've never really had. I mean, I've had assistants here and there, and my makeup artist usually stays, but they don't help me during the shoot. They're not assisting during the shoot. And sometimes I wonder, like, maybe like Trust me, I'm never gonna hire an assistant. I know myself. It's never gonna happen. But if I did have one, they would make my slideshows. They would do any print ordering. They would be helping me. You know, I can think of all the ways that I wish I had an assistant helping me with these things.
- [50:03]
B
Yeah, Jordan's amazing. She's a lifesaver. And she's a really good, you know, hype girl too, so she makes the clients feel great. She's amazing. Yeah.
- [50:10]
A
That's fantastic. All right, question number two is how do you spend your time when you're not working?
- [50:17]
B
When I'm not working, I actually have just picked up my paintbrush again. So it's been a really long time since I painted. And I've just started with watercolors, which I've never used before, and I freaking am in love. And I'm spending all my time up here in my office craft room and painting. I'm actually gonna. I actually might start selling them and doing some stuff on the side, so it's very exciting right now.
- [50:41]
A
Oh, that's great. Good deal. Okay, number three is, what is a photography specific product that you would recommend to people?
- [50:51]
B
I guess there's a couple. I mean, a product. I mean, can I say aftershoot? Because they are. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. It's the AI culling and editing and it's. I actually don't use the culling myself because I don't have that many images. I'm. I'm good at pretty much shooting what got, you know, what I need now without overshooting. But I can see how the culling would be amazing for, you know, wedding photographers or people who have a lot to go through. But the editing, it's. I don't know, it just blows my mind. It's so cool that it can learn how I edit and then edit my photos the way I would do it in like, you know, four minutes.
- [51:29]
A
That's awesome.
- [51:30]
B
So it is. It's pretty cool. So there's that and my. My spider holster. I love it.
- [51:36]
A
Oh, yeah? Yeah.
- [51:37]
B
Because especially once my shoulder was gone. Being having a strap around my neck was terrible. So you have the same thing, right?
- [51:43]
A
Yep.
- [51:44]
B
Actually, I bought it at the Portrait Masters, the first one. That's why I bought the holster. I still have the same one.
- [51:49]
A
Nice. I have had the same one. No, I might have gotten a different one at some point. I'm trying to remember, but I think in 2012 is when I got. When I got it. And I'm the Because sue talks about it a lot and shoots with it. And I. And I was the one who ended up showing it to sue back in the day. And she was like, what is this? Yeah, because I'm the same. I just cannot have weight on my shoulders or my neck. I cannot.
- [52:12]
B
No, we were in front of our computer. Yeah, we're in front of our computer all the time with our neck. And having it around your neck is terrible. Yeah, I love it. In fact, it's so. It's such habit now. If I go out, you know, we were close to Crystal beach here in Niagara. And if I go to the beach with my camera and I don't have my belt on, it's so scary because I'm like, don't. Just, you know, I'm so scared I'm just gonna automatically drop it into the thing. I'm like, don't drop the camera.
- [52:39]
A
Oh, that's funny. Awesome.
- [52:41]
B
All right.
- [52:41]
A
And where can people find you online? Oh, wait, no, I forgot the fourth question. What would you tell people who are just starting out?
- [52:46]
B
Oh, yeah, I get that a lot. I think I would tell them, one, try not to get into your head too much, even though I know it's kind of hard not to. But two, just keep moving forward. I mean, and I always say, like, if other people can do it, you can do it. But just know that it's not, no matter what social media makes it look like, it's not easy. But what do I say to my kids? Just because it's hard doesn't mean you can't do it. So, yeah, it's not going to be easy, but it's definitely rewarding. And if you just keep moving forward bit by bit, and stop comparing your today to someone's 10 years later. Yeah, I like that.
- [53:25]
A
All right, very cool. And where can people find you online?
- [53:28]
B
My Instagram is Tanya L. Smith Photography. That's the problems of having a last name like Smith I have to get. Because Tanya Smith was taken. No kidding. And I'm also. My website is Tanya L. Smith dot com. That's my portrait and boudoir website.
- [53:47]
A
Fantastic. All right, well, thank you again. I appreciate you being on. And I should have mentioned before, I think the link to the Mastery Summit is also. I know they can find it on your website and it's also on the links in my bio and Instagram.
- [54:00]
B
So, yeah, yeah, they can get it from there for sure.
- [54:03]
A
Yeah. Cool. All right, well, thank you again and I will talk to you very soon.
- [54:08]
B
Thank you for having me. This was great.
- [54:10]
A
Thank you so much for listening to the Portrait System podcast. Your 5 star reviews really help us to continue what we do. So. So if you like listening, would you mind giving us a review wherever you listen? I also encourage you to head over to soubre dasheducation.com where you can find all of the education you need to be a successful photographer. There are over 1000 on demand educational videos on things like posing, lighting, styling, retouching, shooting, marketing, sales, business and self value. There's also the 90 day startup challenge plus so many downloads showing hundreds of different poses. We have to do checklists for your business lighting PDFs. I mean truly everything to help make you a better photographer and to make you more money. Once again, that's sue briceducation. Com.