← The Portrait System Podcast
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- [00:00]
Nikki Klosser
Hey there, it's Nikki Klosser and I want to let you know about an awesome free giveaway for people on our email list. If you haven't already, click the link in our podcast description or go to theportraitsystem.com signup to get on the list. If you sign up, you'll get a free posing 101 PDF to jumpstart things. It's an epic PDF, so you'll definitely.
- [00:19]
Danielle Jenkins
Want to get this.
- [00:20]
Nikki Klosser
Also, just by being in our email community, you'll get deals, sales, and information about any of our upcoming events and activities. So head over to theportraitsystem.com signup and and sign up. Today you're listening to the Portrait System podcast.
- [00:35]
Danielle Jenkins
Where do I connect with people? I can connect with moms. I can connect with that period where you're going through that transition of just first becoming a mom or having multiple children or, you know, having the aging parent. Wherever you can connect with your client, that's going to be the most authentic and that's where you're going to succeed.
- [00:58]
Nikki Klosser
Welcome to the Portrait System podcast. I'm your host, Nikki Klosser, and this show is here to help you succeed in the world of photography and business. To help you learn to become financially free, doing what you love and so much more. With over 1 million downloads, countless photographers have taken what they've learned from both our episodes and from theportraitsystem.com and they have grown their businesses, quit their day jobs and are designing a life of their dreams. We keep it real and share stories about the ups and downs that come with running a photography business. You'll hear real life stories of how other photographers run their business and you'll learn actionable steps that you can take to reach your own goals. Thank you so much for being here. And let's get started. Hey there. This is Nikki Klosser and my guest this week on the Portrait System podcast is Danielle Jenkins. Danielle is a fantastic photographer in the Dallas, Texas area who mainly focuses on maternity, but she finds ways to incorporate other shoots that she enjoys doing in order to bring in more clients. Danielle shares with us how one of her passion projects is photographing residents in an assisted living facility and how she makes that attainable for her clients. But she also makes it worth it for herself. Overall, Danielle has an over $4,000 sales average and she shares how she markets to get more clients and how she prices her sessions. Okay, let's get started with Danielle Jenkins. Hi Danielle. Welcome to the Portrait System. How are you Hi.
- [02:19]
Danielle Jenkins
I am doing great. How are you doing?
- [02:22]
Nikki Klosser
I'm good. It's almost summertime, so I'm happy about that.
- [02:26]
Danielle Jenkins
I know.
- [02:27]
Nikki Klosser
Yeah. It's probably already. You're in Dallas, right? Dallas, Texas.
- [02:31]
Danielle Jenkins
It's. It's been hot for a while here.
- [02:33]
Nikki Klosser
Yes. I'm assuming it's probably like 80s 90s.
- [02:37]
Danielle Jenkins
It is. And it's very sticky already.
- [02:40]
Nikki Klosser
Oh, yeah.
- [02:41]
Danielle Jenkins
So that's always fun.
- [02:43]
Nikki Klosser
Yeah. But you don't shoot outdoors, do you?
- [02:46]
Danielle Jenkins
I don't know.
- [02:47]
Nikki Klosser
Yeah, yeah.
- [02:47]
Danielle Jenkins
Absolutely not. I did that for a little bit and I decided I don't like it. So.
- [02:52]
Nikki Klosser
Yeah, I feel like the hair situation and the humidity outside in Texas or like Florida in the summer would be hard.
- [02:59]
Danielle Jenkins
Yes, it is. And the sweat and the bugs.
- [03:02]
Nikki Klosser
Yeah. But the rest of the year, I feel like it'd be good. For the most part, it's okay. Yeah. Anyway, I digress. Okay, Danielle, tell us how long you have been a photographer and were you always a photographer?
- [03:16]
Danielle Jenkins
So I have started my photography interest back in 2009 when I was living overseas in China and everything was very interesting to look at. So that's kind of when the hobbyist in me started. And from there it kind of spiraled to photographing friends and family and then getting random clients here and there. And then I really didn't open my studio until 2018 here in Texas.
- [03:43]
Nikki Klosser
Okay, so about six years ago.
- [03:45]
Danielle Jenkins
Yes.
- [03:45]
Nikki Klosser
You started the studio. Yeah. All right, awesome. And when you started your studio, did you start right away, kind of charging industry standard, or was it a slower kind of buildup for you?
- [03:58]
Danielle Jenkins
So it was really a year before that in 2017, when I found Superice and I really kind of dove into the online education part of that and was doing all of the learning of the posing and the business side and the pricing structure. Previously, when I was doing it more as a hobby, it was a shoot and burn style. So trying to transition that over was a hard mind shift for me. But really what the catalyst was was in 2018, I went to my first Portrait Masters conference and it was basically the push off the cliff that I needed to really get things going.
- [04:39]
Nikki Klosser
The OG conference days, so fun.
- [04:43]
Danielle Jenkins
It was the most amazing experience I feel like I had ever had. I had. I'm a very visual learner too. So even watching the videos online and trying to implement it was something wasn't clicking. And then after I was able to go in person and see everything set up and actually get to experience those shooting days and then make connections with other photographers who I kept in touch with and I'm still in touch with today, that really helped me push to the next limit. So that's when I really decided that I was gonna open a studio. I converted a garage space for that first studio, started booking clients.
- [05:21]
Nikki Klosser
That's so awesome.
- [05:22]
Danielle Jenkins
So to answer your question, to circle back, it was kind of a transition from getting those model calls in for the first few clients that I had. And then really what. What happened was that I was doing model calls for different kinds of shoots. At the beginning, I didn't know I specifically wanted to focus on maternity, but at that 2018 conference, I, Lola Milani, and I was really inspired, and I was like, I want to do a model call for that, and I want to try that. So I had a few of my friends come in, and some of them, I had been in touch with some of them. It was just like, oh, I saw you're pregnant. Do you want to come do this shoot with me? And then used those original images and started sharing those. And then I started booking maternity because that's what I was showing.
- [06:12]
Nikki Klosser
Yes. That is so important. And, gosh, if people can really take that to heart, like, you have to show what you want to book. And if you don't have those shoots, it is. It's doing model calls, it's asking friends and family, it's asking neighbors, old co workers. I had the most random people coming to me from different parts of my. Of my life when I was building my portfolio. And it's. It's what I had to do. I didn't know how else to do it, you know, so, yeah, and I did it for free. I mean, they oftentimes they would pay for their hair and makeup, but I did it for free because I needed to build that portfolio.
- [06:47]
Danielle Jenkins
Right. And I think the key to model calls, especially in the beginning, is just laying it out there very clearly what it is that you're offering. If you are going to cover hair and makeup, let them know ahead of time say, this is what I'm going to do for you. I'm going to do the hair and makeup. And then if you want to offer a print credit or say, hey, a lot of times I would say, hey, I'm going to cover hair and makeup. We're going to do your planning session and have everything ready for you. And then after the shoot, I'm going to let you pick two or three images. You know, you decide what that is, and you let them know ahead of time. And then you say anything after that, if you want to add on more then you can. And this is the price. And just be very clear from the beginning. So when it comes to that time, nobody's guessing. Everyone. Nobody feels like it was a bait and switch. Everyone knows what the expectation is from the get go.
- [07:33]
Nikki Klosser
Yep, totally. You know, I was even more. When I was building my portfolio, I gave them all of the digitals that just all my favorite digitals from this shoot. And people do it different ways. So if you're freaking out, like, how am I gonna do all of these shoots and not make any money whatsoever? You could totally do it the way that you just said. Right. But I was like, I wanted to build my portfolio so quickly, like right now that I was like, just come in. I'll give you all the photos. You don't have to spend any money except, you know, for your hair, makeup, and that's it. And that, I think, helped me get people in quickly. But like you said, however you're going to do it, you have to really be transparent about it.
- [08:13]
Danielle Jenkins
Yeah. And I. There's no right or wrong way. And it's really whatever you're comfortable with, because that's what you're going to communicate best to your clients is whatever it is that you are comfortable with. And I think that's also something that, you know, when you're starting out, you're saying, okay, well, what are you doing? Or what is this person doing? And it's like you're trying to figure it out. I think you can use those things as starting points and then just make it your own.
- [08:37]
Nikki Klosser
Yeah, exactly. One thing you said just to back up a little bit when you were first starting, you know, when you found Sue Brice and the portrait system and everything, where posing was something that you were really learning. And we don't talk a whole. We talk a lot about business and marketing and stuff, but we don't talk a whole lot about posing. And gosh, that for me, I cannot tell you, Danielle, how much more confidence I got as a photographer to say, I'm a photographer to ask people to, you know, model for me or to ask them if they want to book a photo shoot, you know, to really lean into booking clients. Once I knew how to pose, it was like, go time.
- [09:13]
Danielle Jenkins
Yeah. I think with posing in the very beginning, I think I would use Pinterest a whole lot. And I still encourage my clients to use Pinterest, but I would use Pinterest as like, oh, I really like this pose, and I want to try this. And I would be much more planned out as far as what I wanted to try during a shoot with a different client. Now, you know, it comes so naturally that I don't have to do that. However, I do encourage my clients to use Pinterest and build a board and then use it for our planning session. And I always tell them, look, these Pinterest ladies on here with their toddlers and their long legs, they are models. Okay? Most of the time, it's not going to work exactly like that for us. However, we use it as a starting point and we can most definitely try. So especially with my maternity clients, a lot of the images that they're finding are the long legged, cute, tiny maternity bump. And sometimes if you're like me, we just don't look like that when we're pregnant. So we have to use that as a starting point and then make it work for our model. So the posing side of things, you know, it definitely comes along with time.
- [10:27]
Nikki Klosser
Yeah, Yeah. I remember what that was like when I was starting out in the middle of a session. Like, I don't even know where to go from here. I'm sweating. The pose that I wanted to use is not working and I don't know how to do it differently. And then I'm like, just like, I'm still shooting this whole time, even though I know it's not. It doesn't look good, you know?
- [10:48]
Danielle Jenkins
Right.
- [10:48]
Nikki Klosser
It was like, oh, my God. But once I had just multiple poses that I knew I could do with any body type at any point, I could do it with my eyes closed and I could get all of that done and then get a little bit more creative with it all. It was like life changing.
- [11:06]
Danielle Jenkins
Yes. And I think too, with my main focus being maternity clients, it was actually really intimidating and hard for me to pose non maternity clients for a while because I got so used to just posing around the bump that I'm like, you know, because there's only so many things you can do with maternity posing. A lot of times, you know, even if we can achieve a sit, a seated pose or a laying pose, there's only so many different options that you can do. So. And then also, you know, not just the posing, but the crop of the image, we're not doing super tight crops of the face because then you're losing the entire belly. So there's only so much you can do. So for after a while, after I had been doing this a few years, it was like, okay, how can I make this more interesting for me? And then when I would have non maternity clients, like, okay, I gotta really, like, think about this again, like what? We have so many more options that we can do different crops of camera and you know, how I'm gonna zoom in on them versus, you know, I don't have to have just a waist up photo. So it's very interesting how that you get stuck on something and you have to really sometimes take a step back and think, oh, well, I can do things differently here.
- [12:20]
Nikki Klosser
That's a really good point. In my personal branding course, my natural light course, I really hone in on that so hard about variety sells, at least in my experience. Variety absolutely sells. So you can get that variety with different compositions, with different backgrounds, with different outfits, with different lighting, with different expression. There's so many different ways to do it. But like you said with maternity, you, you know, typically, like you said, you're not doing this really tight crop or you're, you know, horizontal can be straight. Like if you do a horizontal, you may. You can't just like cut them right off at the belly. So you have to include the whole thing. Like they're round. Yeah, yeah, it is. It's different. I never really thought about that with when it comes to maternity, but yeah. So something that was really intriguing to me that I wanted you to talk to the listeners about is that, you know, obviously you have your style of photography and maternity is, you know, your jam for sure. But I noticed that you kind of, instead of just the one thing and advertising just this one type of shoot and waiting for only that type of client or that type of shoot, it seems like you've branched out and figured out other ways to continue to do the types of shoots that you want but market it differently. Like, for example, you have these mini black and white boudoir sessions. You have maternity boudoir. You do offer some personal branding. You have a cherry blossom set and you have another. This feels a little bit more out of the box, you know, out of like the maternity or whatever. But a generation's kind of shoot at an assisted living center. Like, I feel like without going too crazy, like, it's not like all of a sudden you have to be shooting families and weddings and whatever to bring people in. It's like you're staying within what you love to do, but marketing it differently with different types of shoots. I don't know if I said that.
- [14:26]
Danielle Jenkins
Right, but yeah, no. So basically what I found was after a couple of years of just doing maternity shoots, I found that I wanted to find a way that I could get my clients to come back into the door. Because I've had such an amazing experience with my clients, and we connect, and so we keep in touch, and we want to keep tabs on each other. So trying to figure out a way that I can get those same amazing clients back through my door was really important to me. So I don't necessarily want to do, you know, tons of kids and families, because I have my own kids and my own family, and when I'm at work, I want to not necessarily be away from them, but you know what I mean? I like my own space so well.
- [15:10]
Nikki Klosser
And being away from toddlers, then to have to manage toddlers at work, for me, that would be tough.
- [15:18]
Danielle Jenkins
If you've ever photographed a toddler, you know, they're basically like wild animals, and you have no control over them. So it's not an easy experience. So coming up with things that I could get my clients to come back in. So, for example, the boudoir minis. Do I consider myself a boudoir photographer? No. Do I consider myself someone who can make a woman feel good in her own skin? Absolutely. I know how it feels to go from that transition of having no kids, becoming a mother, and then watching my body transition afterwards. And so every one of these extra little shoots that I'm bringing on is something that I feel like could relate to my clients because it relates to me. So that was one of them. I also did a fatherhood campaign, so bringing back in just the dads, because a lot of times the dads don't participate in the maternity shoot. So having them come back with the kids after, it's kind of like my way of, you know, family. But not just family. Let's figure out something that I can sell to the mom who I already have the connection to, and get something for her husband and the kids to come back and do a quick little shoot. The Generations photo shoot is a really interesting thing, actually. I lost my dad in 2020 from Parkinson's disease. And when you have someone who has an illness like that or an aging parent, you know, you tend to not. They don't want to get in front of the camera. Right. So I had to convince my dad to do a photo shoot, because this is what I do. And I. I had the forethought to think we're going to want these photos. So what I did was I convinced him to do a photo shoot for my mom for her birthday, because this was kind of down the road during his disease, and he, you know, wasn't able to drive and didn't really have much Independence. I was like, okay, Dad, I will bring my setup. We'll do this photo shoot here in the living room for mom for her birthday. And you can give this to her for her birthday. So, yeah, yeah, we had these amazing pictures of my dad, and I had to get creative with trying to convince him to do it. And then really what happened was I think it was kind of just like one of those God connections where I had someone reach out to me on Instagram, and she is the director of an assisted living facility. And she had seen some of the images that I had taken of older generations before because it's been something that's been on my heart. But being able to convert that into a business transaction, sometimes it's kind of hard.
- [18:01]
Nikki Klosser
Yeah.
- [18:01]
Danielle Jenkins
So she reached out to me and wanted to know what something like that would cost. So really what I did is I kind of just costed it out as far as, like, what would I charge for, like a group rate of a headshot. If I'm going to, you know, a business and I'm doing so many people, what would I charge that out for? And then what I did was I quoted them the price per person if we had 10 residents do it. And then how we pitch it is we pitch it to the residents. And so actually the families are paying for their loved one to have this photo shoot. And so we go to the home, the resident home, and set up and then we, you know, kind of stack them back to back. But we have to have the full participation of the staff because a lot of these patients are older and have memory care issues. So the last one that we did was so special. And we've already unfortunately lost some of those patients. I found out that they had passed away. So it was really. It's very. It's very tender. And you have to come at it with a very tender heart and perspective and. And you know, it's really not about the money, but being able to make it to where I can make money as well is a win win for everyone. So costing it out to where it's affordable for the families, but also makes sense for me, it's a win win for all of us. So we have another one of those scheduled next month, so it'll be our second time doing that. So I'm looking forward to that.
- [19:34]
Nikki Klosser
And the photos are really beautiful. Like on your website, if you click on Generations, there are some of these examples, and I just love them. Like there's the lady in the red dress where she's just like sitting back and she has this like, her hands are kind of up on her chest and she has silver hair. And I just think, wow, she has lived a life, you know, like, there's so much wisdom behind those eyes, you know, there's just so many. I don't know, it's really cool. And like you said, it can be a little tricky, I think, balancing a passion project and something like this with making money. But.
- [20:08]
Danielle Jenkins
Right.
- [20:08]
Nikki Klosser
I mean, there, there, there has to be a happy medium because. Right, sure, sometimes we can do things for free, but this is a pretty big campaign. Like to do it all for free would be like.
- [20:17]
Danielle Jenkins
Yeah, it was a lot of work. I think it was. It was a lot of physical labor of loading and unloading and setting up and breaking down. And then it was a lot of emotional labor too, because you're in there and you're giving these, these tender hearted people your everything because you are trying to make their experience comfortable and you're trying to make them feel good. And you know, I'm not gonna lie, I cried on the way home. Like it was one of those things where it was like, that was probably like the hardest but like, most meaningful thing that I've ever done.
- [20:52]
Nikki Klosser
Yeah.
- [20:53]
Danielle Jenkins
So it took me some time to want to reach out again and book another. But the cool thing about that is that we can continually do that. We can do it once or twice a year. And then they also have sister, you know, organizations and then being able to expand that has also been a very interesting. It's been something that I've been wanting to do, but I just haven't had the bandwidth to do it yet because I definitely think it's something that other facilities would be interested in as well.
- [21:22]
Nikki Klosser
Now is the person, the director of the facility, are they the ones marketing this for you? They're letting people know you're coming.
- [21:28]
Danielle Jenkins
Yeah. So basically they're personally reaching out to families that they think would be a good fit and then they're pitching it on my behalf. So making sure that they understand fully what it is that I'm offering and what the offer is so that they can accurately pitch it for me on my behalf is really important. So making sure that my relationship with the director is very open and clear is a big part to the success of this campaign.
- [21:56]
Nikki Klosser
And then one more thing about this. Are you charging just like a flat fee or is it like a package situation? Because it looks like people are getting their hair and makeup done. Unless these people are all just really great at hair and makeup.
- [22:08]
Danielle Jenkins
No. So the amazing thing about this facility is they had a hair salon on site. So what we did is I didn't have to charge for the hair and makeup. And each one of these residents has a care team. So they had someone with them the whole time that was familiar with them and they were familiar with. Especially since a lot of them had memory issues already. You know, the last thing I want is to take them out of their routine and you know, then we're definitely not going to get anything that's worthwhile. So I'm being very sensitive to that. But their salon did hair and makeup for each one of those residents and so that was an amazing partnership. And then as far as the charging, basically I'm pre selling a package and that way, you know, with the option to upgrade. The last time, the first time we did it, there were some learning points that I wanted to allow them to be able to choose the photos for their loved one because they know their loved one more than I do. Right. I didn't want to be the final decider. However, it was a little back and forth of trying to get people pinned down to be able to pick these. Some of them are local to the area, some of them live out of state. So, you know, that was a little bit of a business hurdle. This next round we're going to simplify it. So there's only going to be two package options and it's going to be like a flat number of digitals. So yeah, for the first round it was close to Christmas time and so I offered a print where then I had to go back and ship out prints to the, the family members. But I also had to chase them to pick their prints. And so I thought, you know what, I'm going to make it easier on myself this next time and we're not going to do the physical prints, we're just going to do the digitals and there's going to be two package choices and they can pre select it and then if they want to upgrade to the bigger selection, you know, go for it. But I think the top, the top package that I'm offering is for that is 450. For me. It was something that I also felt very strongly about is that, you know, for my maternity clients I'm averaging sale of $4,500. So I'm in that higher price range for something like this. I do not want to be in a position where I'm pricing something to where it feels like I am taking advantage of people, especially in a very sensitive situation and time period. So for Me having a lower price point and then just making sure that I have enough people scheduled to where it makes money sense for me to go do that. That was very important to me, too. So kind of trying to figure out that number for me that would cover my expenses, my time, and. But also make it worth it for me and for them was kind of tricky for me to figure out. Yeah.
- [24:55]
Nikki Klosser
And I like the idea of having just two packages because a confused mind says no. And typically, families, you know, people who have an aging parent in a facility, it can be tough. It can be stressful.
- [25:09]
Danielle Jenkins
Right.
- [25:09]
Nikki Klosser
Yeah. To make one more thing difficult to decide on. And like you said, chasing them down about this and that, like, ugh, I feel like it's. Yeah, it can take away, I feel like, from the experience, it can make it stressful. Right.
- [25:22]
Danielle Jenkins
For sure. So keeping it simple and easy to understand and easy for them to say yes, because, you know, it is a. It's the same with my maternity clients. It's a special time, and it's a very short period of time that you have to be able to capture maternity pictures. And also some of these patients are, you know, not going to live too much longer, so that's a very special time as well. And so giving them a chance and being able to have them be able to say yes is also important to me.
- [25:54]
Nikki Klosser
Yeah, it's. It's hard. My.
- [25:57]
Danielle Jenkins
We.
- [25:57]
Nikki Klosser
My stepmom passed away in March, and it was one of the hardest, you know, one of the hardest experiences of my life, for sure. She was like, you know, a mom to me. And she. Thank you. And she. I remember this. God, this was so long ago. This was probably 10 years ago, I would say she and my stepdad, which. That might sound weird, but my. My dad. People are like, wait, what? Your stepmom and your stepdad live together? But my dad passed away when I was 24, so in 2001. And a few years later, she. And she had been my stepmom since I was 16. And a few years later, she married Mike, who's my stepdad, so.
- [26:38]
Danielle Jenkins
Wow.
- [26:39]
Nikki Klosser
Yeah, so. And he has. I mean, like, he asked my permission to marry her. Like, he, you know, just fit right in with us. He's amazing. So my stepmom and my stepdad were visiting us in Seattle, and I was. We were watching a movie or something, so I was sitting on the floor, and I was putting together my back when I used to do folio boxes with the mats and the prints and all of that. And I was gluing the Mats together. And she was helping me put the prints in, and she was staring at the photos. She's like, why would anyone want this? These, like, this many photos of themselves. Like, I just don't understand it. Like, she couldn't wrap her brain around it. And as many times as I wanted her to do a photo shoot with me, shoot, there's. There's just no way she was going to do it.
- [27:19]
Danielle Jenkins
Right.
- [27:20]
Nikki Klosser
And I. Anyways, I regret. I regret not pushing it more with her because I'm. We're doing her celebration of life tomorrow. Actually. No, Saturday. What is today? Thursday. Saturday. And I'm in charge of the slideshow and putting all the photos together on the photo boards and all of that. And I wish that I had just made her do this, because then I would have. Like, we don't have. We have thousands of photos of her, don't get me wrong. But there's not that one killer. Cause she's always with one of us or with my stepdad or with my dad or whatever. In all of the photos. There's not just that, like, one. You know what I mean?
- [28:00]
Danielle Jenkins
I don't know.
- [28:00]
Nikki Klosser
Anyways, I wish they would have pushed it a little harder with her.
- [28:05]
Danielle Jenkins
And it's just tricky, you know, because you want to respect people and not force them to do something that, you know, they don't want to do and they're not comfortable with. But at the same time, yeah. I mean, I had to kind of convince my dad to get in front of the camera. It's. It's not something that's, you know, sometimes easy to do. Sometimes people are. They understand that, and they can put their own pride aside, and they're like, yes, I will do this for you. But other people, you know, it's like, absolutely not. I'm not going to do that. So it's a fine balance. It's very tricky. So don't. Don't beat yourself up.
- [28:39]
Nikki Klosser
Yeah, I know. And it just wasn't her thing, even though, you know, she was. Yeah. So, anyway. Okay. So now I want to. I want to go back to where you're talking about getting clients back in. And I know that maybe, like, your clients, you know, aging parents might not be in this facility, but is this something you could kind of offer to your current clients of their aging parents? Or like, how. Like, is there any connection to that, to getting past clients back in?
- [29:09]
Danielle Jenkins
I definitely think so. And I've had, you know, clients where I've photographed their maternity session, where they have brought their loved ones back in so actually, one of my clients, specifically her, she had booked a fatherhood shoot for her dad with her kids, and he unfortunately passed away before they were able to do that. And it. Because it was a very sudden, unexpected passing. So what, you know, a year passed, and she still had this credit with me. And so I just reached out and.
- [29:47]
Nikki Klosser
I was like, hey, would you be.
- [29:49]
Danielle Jenkins
Interested in maybe, you know, using that credit that you had with me for your mom? And so, you know, we didn't have a specific campaign going on for that, but I wanted her to be able to use that and give her enough time to grieve and accept what, you know, was it was supposed to be a session for. But then, you know, we ended up using it for something different. But we did. We had her mom come in with her kids and then made it even include one of the. The sitters that she had. That's very special to them. So, you know, when stuff like that happens and you really just think, how would you want someone to treat you in that situation? And who cares if it's not a set session that it was supposed to be used for? Just let them come back in and use it for whatever they want. So we did have, you know, one of my clients come back in for that. And so I've had a couple of my other clients where it's like, oh, man, I really wish I could get my mom to participate or, you know, and I think it's one of those things like where you are in that situation, it's like they want them to do it, but then trying to convince them to do it is a whole nother story. Yeah. So I do think there is potential there. They're easier probably to buy for their spouse than they are for their mom, but there's definitely potential for that to open up as well, because everybody has a, you know, either a grandparent or a parent that they cherish and want to capture, too. So really just, I think a key to my running, how I run my business is just that heart connection. Where do I connect with people? I can connect with moms. I can connect with that period where you're going through that transition of just first becoming a mom or having multiple children or, you know, having the aging parent. Wherever you can connect with your client, that's going to be the most authentic, and that's where you're going to succeed.
- [31:51]
Nikki Klosser
Yeah, absolutely. And, hey, just a quick break to tell you that since you're here listening, you have access to a really great offer for our listeners only. We have A special promo code you can use to get 50% off the cost of membership. Just go to theportraitsystem.com or click the link in the description in your Use the promo code PODCAST50 to get 50% off of a membership. We rarely discount membership, so this is a big deal. As I hope you already know, the membership is how I and so many guests on this podcast reached our success. And it gives you access to countless amazing videos, an awesome community, and all the tools you need to build a massively successful business. So use the code podcast50Now to join the community and to start building the business of your dreams. I'll see you there. You know, I think just going back to what you said about your theory kind of is to get clients who've already done a shoot with you back. And I love that. I'm all about that and planting the seed to people that they should come back. This isn't just a one and done because one, you already know that you like working with that client. Two, they already know your pricing.
- [33:02]
Danielle Jenkins
Right.
- [33:02]
Nikki Klosser
They already know the process. It's just so easy to work with past clients. I love it. But being a maternity photographer as your bread and butter, often what we think is, okay, that means now I'm going to do their newborn and now I'm going to do mommy and me sessions, and then I'm going to do the kids sessions and blah, blah, blah. And you said that photographing kids isn't necessarily something you want to do because you have three at home. And, you know, so I just, I like the idea of thinking outside of the box of not doing that traditional way to get people back in.
- [33:40]
Danielle Jenkins
Right.
- [33:40]
Nikki Klosser
Okay. So we talked about, you know, the assisted living generations kind of shoots.
- [33:45]
Danielle Jenkins
And then.
- [33:46]
Nikki Klosser
Okay, so then you also do the cherry blossom set, the black and white boudoir mini sessions, and maternity boudoir. Do you want to touch on any of those? About how you kind of get clients to come back in that way?
- [33:59]
Danielle Jenkins
So, I mean, it's basically the same. Same situation. I had a client who was pregnant and I did her. I did her maternity, I did her newborn, I did some family. Oh, so you do some newborn. I mean, I do. I don't actively advertise it because it's definitely not my favorite.
- [34:18]
Nikki Klosser
Yeah.
- [34:18]
Danielle Jenkins
But I will. So she had asked about, you know, boudoir sessions. So that really kind of piqued an interesting for me to be able to offer that. So I'm like, okay. When I have clients inquiring, then I know that it's Something that maybe my other clients would be interested in as well. So I just created an offer. And, you know, really, it's about connecting with our bodies and that whole journey of motherhood and watching your body change, like, while you're pregnant and then watching your body change after you're pregnant is really, really hard. And I think for a lot of women, you know, we just want to. It's a very hard transition to think, like, okay, who am I as a person now that I'm a mom? Like, am I still allowed to be sexy? Am I still allowed to be, like, fun and like, whoever, you know, that maybe that impulsive person we used to be? Or do I always have to be calculated and on top of things and very put together and, you know, it's like, I find it hard even for me now. It's like, I don't know how to dress myself because I still think I'm in my 20s, and I, like, you know, it's hot. It's hot as I'll get out here. And I'm like, I'm sorry. I just, like, can't. First of all, I can't wear pants. Second of all, I can't wear long shorts. I'm always going to be wearing too short shorts. Okay. It's just a thing. Same.
- [35:44]
Nikki Klosser
So, you know, Danielle, okay, this. I'm totally digressing here, but it's so funny that you say that, because I just went to a concert in Nashville, and I'm like, you know what? I probably. Okay. And I probably. I just turned 47, and I think. I think I just need to stop. Well, I guess I really don't care, but I'm in these, like, little short shorts and this little tank top, my cowboy boots and blah, blah, blah, and.
- [36:06]
Danielle Jenkins
I'm like, do I look.
- [36:06]
Nikki Klosser
I looked at my husband. I'm like, do I look like I'm trying to be too young? And he's like, shut the F up. Like, not a chance. You know, but it is. It's like, yeah, I can relate to everything you're saying, like, as we get.
- [36:18]
Danielle Jenkins
Older, so, you know, creating a safe space for my clients to come back and embrace that sexier side, whether or not they are the size they want to be postpartum or. Or they're not. Like, it doesn't matter to me. And look, I know how it feels to, like, look at those pictures and see just, like, the things that you don't want to see. So my goal for my clients, whether they're pregnant or they're not, is to take away those distractions. And, you know, this goes into retouching, but it's like, I don't want you to look at your pictures and see your flaws. I want you to look at your pictures the way that the people who love you look at your pictures. And that is my goal. So if you don't like your arms, I'm going to help you with your arms. If you don't like your jiggly, you know, cellulite, I'm gonna help you. Like, my goal is to help you look at these pictures and love them and connect with that person who's looking back at you. That's my main goal.
- [37:21]
Nikki Klosser
Well, and another part of that is I feel like it's not only about the photos. It's just about the experience and about the pampering and just feeling special for a moment. Because, you know, it's when you are just so in the thick of it with life, whether it's because you have an aging parent or because, you know, you have so many kids that want so many things from you, or your job is just killing you right now, or whatever that looks like to you with that stress. To have a couple hours where someone is doting on you and you are feeling beautiful, that can really go a long way.
- [37:55]
Danielle Jenkins
It can. And I swear, I am like my own worst client, because I asked my clients to, like, give me a lot of information. Like, I want to have those touch points. I want to really get to know what it is that you envision in your mind before your shoots so that I can make sure I deliver that. And whenever I hire a photographer for my own family, I'm like, tell me what to do. Tell me what to wear.
- [38:18]
Nikki Klosser
Tell me what to bring.
- [38:19]
Danielle Jenkins
I don't wanna think. I can't use my brain. I can do this for other people, but I can't do it for myself. So a hundred percent, you know, I am my own worst client, which is, you know, kind of funny. But at the same time, you know, really just getting in my client's head is really important for me so that I can fully understand what it is that they're wanting and taking away all of those pain points so they don't have to think. Let me think for you.
- [38:44]
Nikki Klosser
Yep. And that goes into, like, you. You mentioned before about just having a personal connection with people, and that helps to bring them back, too, for a different shoot next time. Is really having that personal connection and feeling like you. They feel cared for. That makes it. It just goes so far.
- [39:01]
Danielle Jenkins
Yes. And. And that Is, you know, it's important for me too. Like, I'm not a high volume studio. I have a higher sales average and so I naturally don't need as many clients and I honestly don't want as many clients because I want to have that full service personal connection with my clients. There might be a stage in my life when I, you know, have a little bit more bandwidth that I can have that higher turnover of clients. But for now, it's what feels good to me. And I think this is also an important point. As a mom who's running her own business and has three kids, two of which were twins, and they're three and so they have a mind of their own. And the other one is about to be 10 and he has baseball. And so it's like we're pulled in all these different directions. And then I'm also trying to run my studio, so my brain has to be able to comprehend all the things that are going on. And so keeping things simple for me is what works. And really that connection to my clients is almost like my social life right now, because I don't have time for a real social life. My clients are my social life, if that makes sense. I don't know if anybody else can relate to that, but it's just one of those things where, you know, especially because I'm still in the age of the childbearing years, where those are the people that I relate to anyways. And so we automatically have that connection point. And so that to me, it's important to be able to maintain those friendly relationships with my clients.
- [40:47]
Nikki Klosser
Yeah, definitely. Yeah. I mean, two 3 year olds and a 10 year old is no joke for running a business and something that I, I know I preach on this a lot, but it's just, it's like if you are charging next to nothing and you're having to do, you know, 20 photo shoots a month in order to pay the bills or whatever, it's like imagine if you could just cut that in half if you were charging more. You know, it's like it just makes it so much less overwhelming and you have more time for your family or if you don't have kids for, you know, your friends, your partner, your life, your hobbies, you know, everything, everything we want to do that's extra.
- [41:29]
Danielle Jenkins
Yeah. And I feel like once I got a taste of the fact that clients will pay that and that I keep attracting my ideal client, it makes things so much more clear as far as, like, I, not every client is my client and not every person who inquires with me is going to book with me because they might like my work, but I'm out of their price range. And you know what? That's okay. We are in Dallas Fort Worth, and it is a very competitive area, and you probably will be able to find someone who can meet your price needs and your aesthetic needs. But for me, since it's about the connection, you know, whoever connects with me is going to connect with me, and I'm not going to connect with everyone. So once you get a taste of clients who will pay what you're asking for, you never want to go back.
- [42:21]
Nikki Klosser
Yeah, it's true. It's true. Now let's talk about that, because you said you have an average sale of 4,500, and I noticed on your website, and they're like, I think, frequently asked questions or something, it said some clients spend 2,500 and some clients spend like 19,500. So it sounds like you're planting the seed, that the minimum is probably around 2,500. Is that accurate? Yes.
- [42:44]
Danielle Jenkins
So my sitting fee is 875 plus tax. And that gets my clients the planning session. It gets them their hair and makeup, it gets them access to my studio wardrobe, and it gives them $400 in print credit to use during their reveal session. And so my packages start around 2,200, and that only gets them five images in a folio box. And so almost no one ever buys that package. And that's intentional. So the next package is a 12 image folio, and that's for 3200. The next up is a 20 image folio collection, and that is 4500. And then the next one is a 30 image folio, and that is 5600. So generally, my clients are picking anywhere between the 12 and the 20, and then occasionally the 30. I used to, when I first started, I did the whole printed reveal, and then Covid changed everything for everyone. And so I started doing zoom reveals. And what I was worried about was that maybe they wouldn't feel as connected to the images because it was on zoom or, you know, maybe it would affect my sales. And what I found is that wasn't the case at all. And really, when it really turned for the better is when I started showing more images. So I used to only show up to 30 images because that was my top collection. So that would mean that they could purchase everything that they see and I would fully retouch those images. And then probably two years ago is when I started showing more images. And so what I would do is I would hand select, you know, maybe a couple or maybe my favorites from each, like, set, basically, and retouch those so they could get an idea of what the retouch images would look like. And then I would show them a broader range. So I would show them maybe expressions of serious face, maybe the laughing ones, maybe the looking down ones. And I kind of just show them a huge variety so they can choose their own facial expressions. And when I started doing that is when my sales average jumped because I'm showing them more images, and so it's harder for them to pick. Now, the caveat to that is that my reveal sessions sometimes tend to be on the longer side. However, it's paid off because the sale has also jumped. So I used to, when I would show a smaller amount of images, really get to mainly that $3,000 collection. That was my goal. And then it just naturally bumped up when I started showing more images to that 20 image folio.
- [45:26]
Nikki Klosser
Okay. Now when you're showing though those more images, are you doing, like, a variety of different backdrops and that sort of thing? Because I want people to be careful with that. Only because, like, if you're showing 10 photos of that look pretty close together, pretty close of the same shot, which is maybe one little change, I find people might get a little overwhelmed.
- [45:49]
Danielle Jenkins
Yes. And. And that can happen. So what I do is I make sure that when I'm culling down, that I'm not showing them, like, just minute changes. Like, the image that I'm showing needs to be like, either a totally different pullback or they're looking down or they're laughing or they're have a serious face. So it's gonna be totally different facial expressions and poses and then maybe shots on maybe a similar backdrop. But then, you know, each set that I do, which I tend to do, you know, between three and five different sets with a maternity client, you know, I'm showing just the variety from those sets.
- [46:34]
Nikki Klosser
Yep. Okay, that's what I was assuming. But I just wanted to put that out there because sometimes it can be too overwhelming when you're showing photos that are just. They're almost identical and then they just can't choose. And then it's just like, oh, God, it just is too much. It's too much, so you have to do it.
- [46:51]
Danielle Jenkins
And then the way that I combat that as well is like, especially if they're similar when I'm doing my viewing sessions on zoom, so I'm doing them via Zoom, and I'm Screen sharing and I'm using Bridge. And so when you're showing on bridge, you can pull up to four images side by side. So if they're really similar and they're having a hard time choosing, I'll select the four and then I'll let them see them all side by side. So it makes it a little bit easier for them.
- [47:16]
Nikki Klosser
That's what I do too.
- [47:17]
Danielle Jenkins
Yeah, you gotta find the balance of letting them have enough choice to want to choose more, but like not too much to make it too hard for you and for them.
- [47:29]
Nikki Klosser
Yep, I like that. Okay, so $4,500 average sale. How many times are you shooting per month on average?
- [47:35]
Danielle Jenkins
So what I consider fully booked for me would be no more than two shoots a week. And that with my, the, the amount of time that I'm spending with each client is definitely fully booked for me. So I'm spending. My clients, they come in for hair and makeup around 10am and we don't usually finish shooting until like 2 or 3. So I'm one of those long winded girls and I, because my, what I say to them is, I say, look, you're here. If you want to do something, let's do it. Once that baby comes out, we're not trying to put that baby back in. So let's just get what you want to get. And then, you know, also with maternity clients, we're taking as many breaks as we need to. Potty breaks, snack breaks. You know, sometimes like girls will have Braxton Hicks and so we gotta take a minute. So I just take the time pressure off of them so they don't feel like rushed towards the last hour of the shoot. Everyone's like kind of rallying, you know, because everyone's tired. So we just, we take our time. And I just, you know, it's a long day, but it is, I feel like it allows them the freedom to be able to take those breaks and not feel like they have to rush through it.
- [48:52]
Nikki Klosser
Yeah, for sure. And then as far as you said you offer the. It was $400 in. In print product credit.
- [49:00]
Danielle Jenkins
Yes.
- [49:01]
Nikki Klosser
What products do you offer?
- [49:03]
Danielle Jenkins
So I keep it really simple and I just offer the Folio boxes. I get my folio boxes from 3xm. I used to use Graphy a while ago and I switched to 3xm probably two years ago. And really it's just made my life a lot more simple because they offer a lot of the packaging supplies that graphy hasn't offered yet. So it comes with, you know, the nice little gloves it has the branded USB and then it has a box that you can brand and then a bag. And so having that full service solution is one less thing that I have to think about for sure. And so it, it's been worth maybe a little bit extra on the price tag, you know, because I do think it is a little bit higher than graphy. But I just build that cost into my expenses so it works out good.
- [49:56]
Nikki Klosser
Yep. I love that you just said that at the end. Just build the cost into the expenses.
- [50:00]
Danielle Jenkins
Yeah.
- [50:00]
Nikki Klosser
And make sure, you know, I'd say this all the time, but make sure you're using that pricing calculator on the portrait system to make sure that you are not selling yourself short.
- [50:09]
Danielle Jenkins
Right.
- [50:09]
Nikki Klosser
Because it makes a big difference. But.
- [50:13]
Danielle Jenkins
Okay.
- [50:13]
Nikki Klosser
Awesome. Yeah, this is really great. I mean, it sounds like you have such a good thing going and. Yeah, I love it. I love that you have incorporated a little bit of passion project into your business, still sticking with what you love to do when it comes to maternity and your pricing is set so that it's for sustainability. And yeah, I think it's fantastic.
- [50:38]
Danielle Jenkins
It's been a really interesting journey. And I'll say, you know, when I started my business in 2018, my goals are different than what they are now. And I think that is totally fine. I mean, you change as a person so your business can change, your business goals can change as your kids get older. You got to change your perspective and your shift. I'm actually leaving my studio that I've been in the last two and a half years, and I'm going to be using some other studios in Dallas that are closer to my clients. And so, you know, I'm sad to say goodbye to this permanent home, but there are so many amazing studios in Dallas that I'm going to be able to shoot in. So that's also exciting too. So that's nice. Just kind of, you know, growing. Having your business fit your life is really, I think, one of the biggest takeaways. And knowing that my business isn't going to look like your business, it's not going to look like anybody else's business, and not playing that comparison game and just making it work for me because that's what matters.
- [51:47]
Nikki Klosser
I love that. I love that whole last thing you just said. I think it's really great. It's. It's making your business work for you, designing it around your life and your goals and. Yeah, I mean, it's really great. That's how it should be.
- [52:04]
Danielle Jenkins
Yeah, I definitely agree.
- [52:07]
Nikki Klosser
Well, fantastic. Well, thank you again. I do always ask the same questions at the end of each photo. At the end of each photo shoot. Oh, my gosh. Photo shoots on the brain at the end of each episode. And the first question is, what is something you can't live without when you're doing a photo shoot?
- [52:24]
Danielle Jenkins
Okay, so if I don't have music playing, I feel like my heart isn't beating, and I feel like I can't breathe. So anytime we try and shoot and there's not good music going, I just. I can't. I'm like, okay, we have to fix this. So it's definitely music playing. And then the other thing that I feel like I can't shoot without is my hair fan, because I feel like as soon as you add wind in the hair, it makes the image come alive.
- [52:53]
Nikki Klosser
Yes, I'm with you on that. As long as you use it properly. Like, there are some times when I'm like, okay, that was a little too much wind.
- [53:02]
Danielle Jenkins
Yeah.
- [53:03]
Nikki Klosser
Or with straight hair, a fan.
- [53:05]
Danielle Jenkins
Yes.
- [53:05]
Nikki Klosser
Tricky. Or bangs can be tricky, so you just gotta watch it a little bit. Yes.
- [53:10]
Danielle Jenkins
Most of my curls have the long curls, so it ends up looking pretty good. But, yes, I agree. But, yeah, my hair fan is one of those things too, where I just like, if it's not. If we're not using that we don't have music, then I just feel like I can't breathe.
- [53:23]
Nikki Klosser
I love that. All right, number two is how do you spend your time when you're not working?
- [53:29]
Danielle Jenkins
When I'm not working and I'm not taking care of my three little kittens at home, aka my children, I have recently started going to HotWorx, which I don't know if they have those where you are, but it's basically a little hot sauna room. And I go in there and I put on my AirPods and I. Sometimes you're supposed to, like, work out in there. Sometimes I just literally go in there and just, like, stretch. But then I'm sweating, so I cannot work out. No one will know. So I love going to Hot Works. Recently, it's been a nice little treat. And they're open 24 hours, so if I want to go at weird times, I can do that. So that's nice.
- [54:12]
Nikki Klosser
That's awesome. It's so funny because when I told Dan, I was like, so, P.S. i bought more chicks than will fit in our current coop that you built me last year. That he spent, like, forever building me last year. I'm like, so you're gonna need to build me Another one. Super sorry about that. And so he got the. He started building a new one. Had the framing in and the window in. And then he stopped and he was like, so I think I'm gonna make this into a sauna and cold plunge. And I was like, say what?
- [54:41]
Danielle Jenkins
Like what?
- [54:42]
Nikki Klosser
He's always wanted a sauna ever since I've known him. And I was like, okay. And he was like, how do you feel about that? I'm like, I think that's really sweet, but I still need a new chicken coop by April 28, so you have, you know, four more weeks to go ahead and finish that. So anyways, he ended up building a different chicken coop and then he put the sauna on hold until like later in the summer. And he'll finish that.
- [55:04]
Danielle Jenkins
But I'm pretty lucky. You can go in there and hide. So it's really nice. It's a nice hiding spot.
- [55:10]
Nikki Klosser
Yeah. I'm super lucky to have a handy husband. Like, I would never. I don't think I'd ever think to like, have someone ever build me a sauna. But when your husband does it, it's like, sweet. But anyway, so that makes. I'm glad you said that because I love the idea of going in to stretch and relax and maybe work out. And it feels like a really, a really good, like, mindset place to be. It is, yeah. All right, and then the next question is, what is a photography specific product that you would recommend to people?
- [55:39]
Danielle Jenkins
Okay. So I had never seen these, but I was looking for something. I had heard of people putting cast, like those caster wheels on the basis of their, like, light stands and, you know, different stands. So it's like easy to roll. And I found this little tripod contraption that has wheels on it. And then so it's in the shape of kind of like, you know, a hangman without the head and the arms, if that makes sense. And then you put your. I'm doing this a really bad job of explaining.
- [56:15]
Nikki Klosser
You put your.
- [56:16]
Danielle Jenkins
Either your light stand or your tripod on there and then it's. You secure it and then it's on wheels and so you can roll it around. So for instance, my. My heavy hair fan. It's really heavy, so having it on wheels is ideal. So I have it on a light stand and then I have the stand in these wheels. And so then now it's able. You're able to roll it across. But anyways, it's. The brand I have is newer and I wish I knew what to call it. I should have Looked it up on Amazon.
- [56:49]
Nikki Klosser
Well, it sounds really interesting. Yeah. I don't know. I'm curious about this. Hmm. Very cool.
- [56:54]
Danielle Jenkins
Just, like, get on Amazon and search for wheel, tripod or something like that, and then search newer, and then you'd probably be able to find it.
- [57:04]
Nikki Klosser
Yeah. Sweet.
- [57:05]
Danielle Jenkins
And if not, you guys can just forget that I even told you.
- [57:09]
Nikki Klosser
No, I mean, no, I love it. I love when someone recommends something that I. You know, it's. Clearly, if you liked it enough to say it, it sounds pretty amazing. And I feel like that's something that is, like a thorn in people's side, is like, moving lights. Moving, yes. Tripod. You know, moving all the things. It's. Yeah. So it's.
- [57:28]
Danielle Jenkins
It's definitely nice to have it on wheels versus, like, having to lift something really heavy.
- [57:33]
Nikki Klosser
Yeah.
- [57:34]
Danielle Jenkins
All right.
- [57:35]
Nikki Klosser
And number four is what would you tell people who are just starting out?
- [57:39]
Danielle Jenkins
So I think the biggest piece of advice is just to kind of, like, listen to yourself and follow your heart and just know that where you start isn't going to be where you finish, and things change along the way. So I don't think I would have ever been able to say, oh, I want to be a maternity photographer. It was kind of something that just happened, and, you know, I followed that intuition in the beginning, and then it's kind of brought me along this. This path that I'm on. And so really, just listening to your own heart and your own intuition and don't be afraid to do things differently than what everybody else is doing and just make it work for you. That's. That's the most important thing.
- [58:23]
Nikki Klosser
Awesome. Fantastic. Well, thank you again. This has been great to have you on, and. Yeah, very cool. Are you going to go to WPPI next year where portrait masters will also be.
- [58:33]
Danielle Jenkins
I hope so. I used to live in Vegas, and so I still have a lot of friends there. And the last time I was in that I went to WPPI was before it was probably in 2017, and I actually saw sue there, which I think is how I found her and started following her. So that was really interesting. But, yeah, I hope that I get to go because it's always a lot of fun and I love seeing everybody in person.
- [58:58]
Nikki Klosser
So, yeah, we have a blast. That's for sure.
- [59:01]
Danielle Jenkins
Yeah, we really do. We know how to have fun.
- [59:04]
Nikki Klosser
I know, right? And make friends, too.
- [59:06]
Danielle Jenkins
Yes. Lifelong friends.
- [59:08]
Nikki Klosser
Totally. Totally. All right, well, thank you, Danielle. This has been great. And I will see you in the Facebook group and until. Yeah, hopefully I'll see you in person next year.
- [59:18]
Danielle Jenkins
But thank you so much. It was, it was good chatting.
- [59:21]
Nikki Klosser
Yeah, you take care. Thank you so much for listening to the Portrait System podcast. Your 5 star reviews really help us to continue what we do. So if you like listening, would you mind giving us a review wherever you listen? I also encourage you to head over to Subra where you can find all of the education you need to be a successful photographer. There are over 1000 on demand educational videos on things like posing, lighting, styling, retouching, shooting, marketing, sales, business and self value. There's also the 90 day startup challenge plus so many downloads showing hundreds of different poses. We have to do checklists for your business, lighting, PDFs. I mean truly everything to help help make you a better photographer and to make you more money. Once Again, that's Sue briceducation.com.