How Kirsten Belloni Maintains a High Sales Average in Alaska

Summary

The Portrait System Podcast: How Kirsten Balani Maintains a High Sales Average in Alaska

Release Date: May 6, 2025

Host: Nikki Closser, Mentor at Sue Bryce Education

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Introduction

In this compelling episode of The Portrait System Podcast, host Nikki Closser welcomes Kirsten Balani, a seasoned portrait photographer based in Anchorage, Alaska. Balani shares her insights on managing a successful photography business in a remote location, maintaining impressive sales averages, and balancing multiple professional roles. Additionally, she delves into her inspiring passion project in Cambodia, illustrating how photography can transcend business to make a meaningful impact.

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Building a Successful Photography Business in Alaska

Focus Areas and Client Base

Kirsten Balani has dedicated over two decades to portrait photography, primarily focusing on high school seniors and families. "I've been a portrait photographer for just a little over 20 years," Balani mentions at [03:54]. Her specialization caters to the natural progression from senior portraits to family sessions, especially poignant in a state like Alaska where families often relocate for traditions such as graduation ceremonies.

Pricing Strategy and Market Viability

Addressing concerns about pricing in a less populous area, Balani confidently states, “[06:27] ‘You absolutely can charge industry prices in Alaska.’” She emphasizes that Alaska’s remoteness limits high-quality portrait options, allowing her to sustain industry-standard pricing. Balani maintains a consistent sales average of $1,200 per session, balancing busy periods—like the late fall senior season—with quieter months. Her friend, another photographer, successfully charges $3,000 to $3,500 per session, demonstrating the market's potential ([08:48]).

Package Structuring and Client Experience

Balani offers three streamlined packages:

• Basic Package: $1,000 for six digital images.
• Middle Package: $1,800 for more digitals plus one print.
• Top Package: $2,424.75 for an extensive collection of digitals and an album ([15:43]).

She highlights the importance of simplicity in package offerings, aligning with Sue Bryce’s philosophy to avoid overwhelming clients with too many choices. Balani prefers in-person reveals to build relationships and ensure clients feel connected to their final products, a practice she maintains despite the logistical challenges posed by Alaska’s climate ([13:12]).

Notable Quote:

“Charge industry prices in Alaska because there aren’t a lot of places to go if you want a really high-quality portrait.” — Kirsten Balani [06:27]

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Balancing Multiple Roles and Seasonal Variations

Balani balances her photography business with a full-time role teaching photography online at a university and managing a nonprofit focused on education in Cambodia. This multifaceted approach allows her to maintain a healthy work-life balance, especially during Alaska’s off-peak seasons ([08:09]).

Managing Seasonal Demand

The late fall senior season can see Balani handling up to 10 sessions a month, in contrast to the slower, colder months where she averages two sessions. This seasonal fluctuation enables her to dedicate time to her passion project in Cambodia and her teaching responsibilities without feeling overworked ([07:55]).

Support System and Teamwork

Balani credits her ability to juggle multiple roles to effective teamwork with her husband, who manages the nonprofit’s operations. This partnership ensures that both their professional and philanthropic endeavors thrive without one overshadowing the other ([43:06]).

Notable Quote:

“I have a $1,200 sales average that's been pretty consistent for quite a while... I'm comfortable, I'm not overworking.” — Kirsten Balani [07:04]

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Passion Project: Photography in Cambodia

Origins and Inspiration

Balani’s passion for Cambodia ignited during mission trips in the early 2010s. A pivotal moment occurred when she captured a portrait of a Cambodian woman carrying a tray of bananas, which deepened her connection to the country and its people ([20:17]). This experience inspired her to document the lives of elderly Cambodians, preserving their stories and heritage through her photographs.

Project Development and Impact

Since 2015, Balani has photographed over 50 elderly Cambodians, capturing their testimonies and memories, particularly focusing on their experiences during the Khmer Rouge era. This project not only preserves invaluable historical narratives but also aims to support education in Cambodia by funding school books through the sale of a forthcoming book based on her work ([32:45]).

Workshops and Community Engagement

Balani and her husband organize the Pictures with a Purpose workshop every January, taking small teams to Cambodia to photograph and engage with local communities. These workshops aim to foster deeper connections through the arts and inspire participants to make a positive impact, mirroring Balani’s own journey ([35:38]).

Notable Quote:

“Nothing like that experience of being in the jungle and you can, the air is so still and it's so quiet.” — Kirsten Balani [37:58]

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Strategies for Rebuilding and Growth

Reestablishing Client Base Post-Return

After relocating back from Cambodia, Balani faced the challenge of rebuilding her client base in Alaska. She emphasizes the importance of consistency in branding and outreach, even amid confusion about her whereabouts. By renaming her business to Alaska Professional Portraits and continuously networking, she successfully reconnected with her community ([20:17]).

Leveraging Relationships Over Social Media

Balani admits to being less active on social media, relying instead on personal interactions and word-of-mouth referrals to sustain her business. This approach highlights the effectiveness of building genuine relationships over digital marketing, especially in tight-knit communities ([22:01]).

Notable Quote:

“Nobody really cares what the business name is... What matters is the connections with people.” — Kirsten Balani [22:01]

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Advice for Aspiring Photographers

Follow Your Passion and Build a Unique Style

Balani advises new photographers to focus on what excites them, ensuring their work reflects their unique voice and style. This passion-driven approach not only sets them apart but also fuels sustained creativity and business growth ([53:59]).

Prioritize Profitability

She underscores the importance of building a profitable business by charging appropriately for services. Balani warns against undervaluing sessions, emphasizing that sustainable income is crucial for long-term success ([53:59]).

Work-Life Alignment

Balani encourages photographers to consider how their chosen genre fits their lifestyle. Whether it’s weddings, personal branding, or other niches, aligning work with personal life ensures fulfillment and prevents burnout ([55:32]).

Notable Quote:

“You have to follow what makes you light up... your work isn’t going to look like everybody else's.” — Kirsten Balani [53:59]

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Conclusion

Kirsten Balani’s journey as a portrait photographer in Alaska exemplifies how passion, strategic pricing, and meaningful community engagement can culminate in a thriving business. Her dedication to capturing the stories of elderly Cambodians further illustrates the profound impact that photography can have beyond commercial success. Aspiring photographers can draw inspiration from Balani’s balanced approach to business, her commitment to personal projects, and her emphasis on building genuine connections.

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Resources Mentioned:

• Visit Kirsten Balani’s portfolio and learn more about her Pictures with a Purpose workshop at KirstenBalani.com.

Notable Promotional Content Skipped:

• Introduction giveaways and special promo codes.
• Sponsorship messages and outro remarks.

Transcript

[Nikki Klosser]

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Today you're listening to the Portrait System podcast.

[Kirsten Balani]

The whole time that he was telling the story, his grandson was laying there on the bed with his eyes just huge listening to the tale. And I thought that was really something watching the history being handed down that way. And so as we were leaving, I mentioned this to the grandfather and I asked, you know, has he heard much of that story before? And he said no. Until today, I've never spoken of any of it.

[Nikki Klosser]

Welcome to the Portrait System Podcast. I'm your host Nikki Klosser and this show is here to help you succeed in the world of photography and business. To help you learn to become financially free, doing what you love and so much more. With over 1 million downloads, countless photographers have taken what they've learned from both our episodes and from theportraitsystem.com and they.

Have grown their businesses, quit their day.

Jobs and are designing a life of their dreams.

We keep it real and share stories.

About the ups and downs that come with running a photography business.

You'll hear real life stories of how.

Other photographers run their business and you'll learn actionable steps that you can take to reach your own goals. Thank you so much for being here. And let's get started.

Hey everyone, it's Nikki Klosser here and my guest this week on the Portrait System podcast is Kirsten Balani. Kirsten is a photographer in Anchorage, Alaska where she juggles her business plan plus a full time job. Plus she has a passion project and we dive into how she does all of it. In addition to Kirsten sharing how she maintains a high sales average in Alaska, we talk a lot about how to use your photography to travel the world. Also, Kirsten moved away from Alaska to Cambodia for a few years and she had to rebuild her client base when she got back and she shares how she did that. I really love this episode and it's such an honor to introduce to you Kirsten Balani. Hi, Kirsten. Welcome to the portrait system. How are you?

[Kirsten Balani]

I'm fine, thank you. Nice to be here.

[Nikki Klosser]

Yeah. Tell everyone where you are recording from right now.

[Kirsten Balani]

I am in Anchorage, Alaska. This is where I live.

[Nikki Klosser]

Awesome. Okay. So Alaska. Yes. Okay. When I think of Alaska, I think of, you know, not a very big population. It's not like, you know, the hustle and bustle of New York and LA and all those different big places. So what's it like there overall, as far as, you know, population and that sort of thing?

[Kirsten Balani]

Well, Anchorage is our biggest city and I think it's around maybe around 400,000 people. That might be a little bit generous. But, yeah, it's, you know, very mountainous and we're kind of spread out. Our road system isn't huge. So outside of the south central area, people have to fly, you know, small planes to get where they want to go. To the villages. Yeah. Yeah.

[Nikki Klosser]

All right, cool. And during this episode, I just want to let people know that we're going to. There's going to be kind of two parts to it. One is going to be about your photography business within Alaska and, you know, the money you bring in and how you get clients and all that good stuff. And then the second part is going to be about a passion project that you're doing that is really, really cool. That I'm excited to hear about, too. But I want to talk about, you know, the nitty gritty of the business stuff first.

[Kirsten Balani]

Sure.

[Nikki Klosser]

Of what it's like for you in Anchorage. So maybe start by telling us a little bit about what you shoot there most.

[Kirsten Balani]

Yeah, well, I've been a portrait photographer for just a little over 20 years, and so that's primarily my business, actually. Started really with high school seniors, and that's still something I love to do. But out of working with seniors, very naturally comes working with families. So it's primarily seniors and families. Occasionally there'll be a baby or, you know, professional headshots or something like that. But primarily seniors and families.

[Nikki Klosser]

This is a total side note, but when you do senior photos, do you also offer the family to come to do families as well?

[Kirsten Balani]

I have on occasion. Families are always in. Some of them are graduating their last child, and so they really want that portrait, you know, of the whole family. Some of them, you know, being that Alaska is far away from every place else, sometimes they'll have families coming up for graduation. So that seems like a natural fit.

[Nikki Klosser]

Okay.

[Kirsten Balani]

Yeah. So it just kind of Depends on, you know, listening to what the client wants and kind of where they're at and offering what seems appropriate.

[Nikki Klosser]

Yeah, the only reason I bring that up is, is I've done that in the past. I don't always do it, but I feel like it's just a good strategy for people to kind of have two sessions in one. Because obviously if you have more than just the photos of the senior, you have the opportunity to increase sales with that, with that family session as well. So I just wanted to throw that out there when you, you know, when you had said that it's a natural progression to kind of go into families. So I've done that. Yeah, I've done that with, with that. And also when, like for headshots too, if a family session, if they come in just for their, the family session, I'll ask the adults if they need headshots as well. And it's just kind of a nice way to upsell, you know, two sessions in one.

[Kirsten Balani]

Definitely. Yeah. When you listen to people and just kind of hear where they're at in their life, you kind of get an idea for what would work for them. So never hurts to offer.

[Nikki Klosser]

Okay. And then, you know, a lot of times people will say things like, oh, you can't charge industry prices in my town for. Or my country or whatever, for one reason or another. And when you think of Alaska, you don't really think. Okay. And I'm not trying to, like, you know, I'm generalizing here. I'm not trying to judge whether or not people in Alaska will spend money on photos, but it's not the, the kind of like town you would think, oh, yeah, people are going to spend three grand on photos. So I'm curious what your experience has been with your pricing in general. Will you share a little bit about that?

[Kirsten Balani]

Yeah, you absolutely can charge industry prices in Alaska. I think probably the, the biggest thing that's a factor here is that we're, we're remote and so we don't driving in from all over the place. You know, we're kind of self contained. But the upside of that is there's, you know, there's not a lot of places to go if you want a really high quality portrait so you can build your business really, really successfully here, you know, charging industry, industry prices.

[Nikki Klosser]

Okay, and, and where are you at personally with. With your pricing?

[Kirsten Balani]

Yeah, right now I have a $1,200 sales average that's been pretty consistent for quite a while. Yeah, I'm happy here with the work I do In Cambodia and kind of going back and forth a lot. I'm super happy to just do an average of two sessions a month. That's good, That's a good fit for me. I'm comfortable, I'm not overworking. But there have been times where it's been a lot more. And it's also very seasonal in Alaska. So when senior portrait season happens, which is usually late fall for us, it can get really busy, 10 sessions a month, but then it averages out because in, you know, January, February, when it's very cold outside, there's just, you know, not a lot going on, so. And most people in Alaska want their photos outside because most people live here for the natural beauty, so.

[Nikki Klosser]

Right, right. Okay. And I should say too, you have another job. So you're doing this part time?

[Kirsten Balani]

Yes, yes, I teach photography for a university online. And, and so that's. Yeah, that's another job that I really, really love.

[Nikki Klosser]

Okay. So it's part time work, which I think is good because some of our listeners aren't, you know, they aren't like necessarily trying to go full time and they're curious how, how people manage doing a part time. And it sounds like for you, you've got the really busy season and then, you know, the, the slow season where I'm sure you can focus more on your, your other, you know, the work in Cambodia plus your teaching job and. Yeah, yeah, very cool. Okay. And then I mean, as far as another thing people say sometimes is that my town is saturated with other photographers or. I don't know, I'm just curious, are there other photographers doing this successfully with industry standard pricing in your area?

[Kirsten Balani]

Oh, for sure, yes. In fact, one of my friends who's really focused her entire business on high school seniors, gosh, just a couple years ago she had, I think 50 seniors in one season, which was crazy. But her sales average was up around 3,000, 3,500. And yeah, and she and I got together and we're talking a couple months ago and just kind of reflecting on, you know, how to even expand from there and talking about balancing out and offering studio sessions alongside the outdoor sessions and how that's kind of a niche here that is not really being touched. So yeah, there's tons of potential here in Alaska. We're not suffering in any way like that.

[Nikki Klosser]

Right. Yeah. And I mean, if you do the math there, if we say $3,000 times 50 sessions, that's 150,000. Just in that short, you know, late fall.

[Kirsten Balani]

Yes.

[Nikki Klosser]

Even like, you know, plus the income from The. The rest of the year round, like you said, with other. Other sessions.

[Kirsten Balani]

So, yeah, a crazy season, but. But really good.

[Nikki Klosser]

Yeah, very cool. And then for your seniors, I know you said most of them are outside. Do you offer any sort of like, you know, special services like hair and makeup or anything like that, or is it just, you know, come as they are and you're doing this outside and are there.

[Kirsten Balani]

Yeah, I have not offered hair and makeup in the past. I looked into it at one time. It's very hard to find hair and makeup artists in Alaska that is available during that time, especially because that's also the height, kind of the wedding season up here. And so they are booked way out. And so it's something I've thought of. But, you know, in the end, it's like people will kind of do their thing before they come. And some people don't. Aren't real makeupy here either. And so we just kind of, you know, I kind of, again, try and listen to the needs of each client. If they are wanting hair and makeup, I can recommend places or people, but it's not something I take care of for them as part of their package or anything.

[Nikki Klosser]

Okay, so having a 1200 average without offering that extra service is even. Yeah, it's even better. Very cool. And then do you do packages or, you know, do you do prints? Like, how are your senior. Like, how is it structured?

[Kirsten Balani]

Yeah, you know, I. I do packages and I should say, you know, over the years, I've done business in a lot of different ways. I used to have an actual studio, and during that time, I was doing, you know, everything that sue has taught us about in person reveals, and I was just very much following that model when I moved back to Cambodia, which we'll talk more about later. But when I moved back to Cambodia in 2017, I had to close that business. And so I've since then, as I've gone back and forth between Alaska and Cambodia, gone more to a digital reveal. It just is easier. It makes more sense. But yeah, three packages for people who might.

[Nikki Klosser]

Let's come back to your packages. But for people who might not know, like, in person, reveal. Will you just explain a little bit about what that means?

[Kirsten Balani]

Yeah. So my clients would come into my studio and I would have their images printed and matted, and they would be up on the wall and I would have not 100% of their images there, but I would have kind of, you know, a good selection of kind of top picks, ones that I thought that they would like. Sometimes it was around half the session. And then they would, you know, have a. Have something that they could hold in their hands and look at and make decisions so that they knew what the final product was going to be when they ordered their package.

[Nikki Klosser]

Okay, cool. Yeah, I've switched over to digital. Well, I've been doing digital viewings. Viewings are reveal. Same thing for a very long time. Like, gosh, starting in, like, 2013, I think. Digital. Yeah. And I did do the printed ones for a while, but I'm such. I'm all about efficiency, and I don't want to have to go back to the studio if I don't have to. And, you know, back then I was in Seattle where traffic is out of control, and I didn't want to have to ask my clients to drive back. And I realized, like, wow, I could do this on. At the time I was doing Skype. But now, you know, Zoom took over the world.

[Kirsten Balani]

Yeah.

[Nikki Klosser]

So then I switched to Zoom. But how do you do yours digitally? What does that look like for you?

[Kirsten Balani]

I still meet with a client in person. I really enjoy just the interaction with people. I love interacting with people this way, and so I want to be there and answer their questions in person. I've experimented with a couple of things over the years. Sometimes I'll send, like a preview link so that they can kind of look through it and have an idea of what they might want or what questions they might have. Sometimes that kind of moves the process along a little faster when we meet in person then, because they, you know, they have a moment but their thoughts. But, you know, I just. I really like to be there with them and we just have a nice time. I feel like it's better on building the relationship.

[Nikki Klosser]

Totally.

[Kirsten Balani]

So, yes, a lot of my clients become friends over time because I, you know, in the course of a single session, I might meet with them three or four times in person. And again, keeping to only, you know, to averaging two sessions a month. I can do that. And like I said, it's kind of a sweet spot for me because I just enjoy the interaction.

[Nikki Klosser]

Yeah. It provides that extra level of service. It really does. I mean, it's. Yeah, it's definitely beneficial to do it that way.

[Kirsten Balani]

Yeah, I think it's one of those things where, you know, I could make it a lot more efficient, but in the end, I think something would really be lost for the enjoyment of it if. If not, if nothing else. But at least on my part of just building those relationships, which. The relationships is what serves you really well over time, too. Because. And they're more eager to recommend you when a friend of theirs wants, you know, some photos done. So.

[Nikki Klosser]

Definitely. Yeah. And I think it just goes to show there are so many different ways that you can do this. You can do a printed viewing or reveal. You can do digital in person. You can do online in person, which is how I do it over zoom. You know, I show the slideshow, and then we go through them together. And I'm still having that interaction, but not so much in person, you know, and there's. There's different ways that people can do it based on what works for you and your business model. But I think the key takeaway is to make sure you're doing it with them, even if it's online in person and not just sending out a gallery and hoping that they pick their photos and hoping they pay you one day. This is very concrete. You show them the photos, they choose their photos, they pay you then and there, and then you're on your way. And it's. It's just. It's the best way, I think.

[Kirsten Balani]

Yeah. No, I agree completely.

[Nikki Klosser]

Yeah. Okay, so tell us about your packages, what you include.

[Kirsten Balani]

Let's see. Right now, I've got three packages. I. I don't recall a time where I ever had more than three packages. The bottom package is right out a thousand. The middle package, I think is 1,800. And then the top package, I think is 20 $424.75. And. Yeah, and the bottom package is just. It's very basic. It's just six digitals, and that's pretty much it. But most people will go for the middle package, which has a larger collection of digitals and one print. Then the top packages even more digitals, and I also include an album, so.

[Nikki Klosser]

Okay, great. And then they have the opportunity to purchase more prints and things like that.

[Kirsten Balani]

Yeah, Yeah, I have a la carte, too, but usually people don't. Don't do a la carte unless it's just the album a la carte, and they want to add that onto something, so.

[Nikki Klosser]

All right, awesome. And you said you just recently raised your prices. Okay. Have you done a full season with your new prices yet?

[Kirsten Balani]

No, and I. I do raise prices every year, but I'll usually look at not raising the entire collection unless the entire collection, you know, assortment of packages, was selling at roughly the same rate. But this past year, I usually do it in January. I just raised the bottom package because the bottom package previously had just been a touch below a thousand because I was kind of Getting back into the market after being gone for a couple of years. So, yeah, I just kind of look at what needs to be raised and if I need to make any adjustments to the package to add or take away anything to make it, you know, what people are after as well as I'm profitable for myself.

[Nikki Klosser]

So, Yeah, I wonder if your. If your sales average will increase even more, you know, now that that bottom was. Is lifted. And.

[Kirsten Balani]

Yeah, and I think it probably will. And, you know, as a lot of people go for that middle package and that's, you know, that's kind of what we're aiming for.

[Nikki Klosser]

Right.

[Kirsten Balani]

So I, I do like to fix my attention right there, but, yeah, we'll see. We'll see what happens.

[Nikki Klosser]

I love the simplicity of three packages, large, medium, small. It's a psychology of selling. It keeps it simple. There's, like so much behind why it's a really good sales model.

[Kirsten Balani]

Yes. And listening to sue over the years, I can say, you know, I agree with that 100%. People who are confused and overwhelmed are not going to be eager to spend money. I know that for myself, too. Anytime I go to something and there's just too many choices, I just want to walk away way. So, yeah, even my a la carte is very simple and we can do anything, you know, and that comes back to listening to what people want and kind of knowing what's available, because I can always suggest something that might not be listed, but if they're overwhelmed by the choices, it's. It just usually doesn't go well. So.

[Nikki Klosser]

Yeah. And giving only six digitals in the bottom package, I mean, no one ever, at least in my experience, no one ever gets that bottom package because they want more than six digitals. And if you are starting your package, giving your smallest packages, giving away like 30 photos.

[Kirsten Balani]

Yeah.

[Nikki Klosser]

What is the incentive for them to purchase more? There just really isn't an incentive there. And, you know, I always scream from the rooftops about shooting a variety because variety is going to sell. And if you've only got six, you know, digitals in your smallest package, but then you've got them in multiple outfits and you're, you know, doing different locations, even if you're outside going from the water or into the woods or whatever.

[Kirsten Balani]

Yeah.

[Nikki Klosser]

They're not going to be able to just choose six.

[Kirsten Balani]

It's very hard. It's very hard. Another thing, too, is that, you know, you were talking about just the variety, and variety is super important because, you know, people want to have different looks, especially if you're Doing something like, you know, a business or, you know, business headshots or something like that, because they can use those pictures for much longer than just one or two posts. You know, they can, they can use them over a year or two or even a little longer. And so they want that variety. But absolutely, it's important.

[Nikki Klosser]

One more question before we get into. Your passion project is about. You had said you were gone for a couple years and I know from experience that being gone from somewhere and then coming back and trying to ramp up that client base again, you know, it can be a little tricky. It can take some time. How did you, how did you make that happen?

[Kirsten Balani]

Oh my goodness. I feel like I'm still kind of making it happen. It is, it is a challenge. And I had initially thought in, you know, when we moved to Cambodia for the second time because we had lived there previously in 13, 14 that school year, I had initially thought, oh, I'll just go back to Alaska and I'll just, you know, my business will just kind of continue and I'll go back and forth. No, it does not work that way at all. My friends, you know, I've got a large friend base after living in Alaska for most of my life, but even my friends are super confused about where I am and what I'm doing. And, and so I still, you know, we've been back full time in the States for three years now, I think three, four years. And we still run into people that say, I thought you moved to Cambodia. It's like, oh, I've been back for so long. So it's just people are busy with their lives and, you know, it's hard to keep track of everyone and everything. But I think just being consistent, I did try to. I was Balani Photography for a long time and I changed my name. Coming back thinking that maybe that would help just kind of disassociate, you know, this my friends thinking I'm, you know, still overseas. And so I have been Alaska professional portraits for, I guess this is going into the second year. And you know, it's interesting because the thing that I learned is that nobody really cares what the business name is. Every year people spend millions of dollars at a place called Target, you know, or Apple. And so no one really cares what it's called. What matters is the connections with people. And so just continually trying to, you know, put myself out there and let people know that I'm available and, and that type of thing, that's really where it's at. And that just takes time.

[Nikki Klosser]

So Right, right. Okay. So physically getting out there, talking to as many people as you can, are you doing social media?

[Kirsten Balani]

Yeah, I'm terrible at it, especially on my business page. It's just because I get very spread out and again it's like I've got the work in Cambodia, I've got, you know, my, my part time job with the university and then running the business and it just is a lot. So that's okay though, like I don't.

[Nikki Klosser]

Want you to feel badly about that. I almost kind of like that. You know, you're like, I'm not great at social media but you know, you're averaging. I know it's part time, but you're able to bring in clients without heavy social media action or whatever.

[Kirsten Balani]

Yeah.

[Nikki Klosser]

And that's going to be a relief to some people out there. And I'm not saying that social media isn't important because I think you can really do great, you know.

[Kirsten Balani]

Yes, definitely ramping it up.

[Nikki Klosser]

But you know, it doesn't have to be the end all, be all if you're out there networking in other ways.

[Kirsten Balani]

Very true. Yeah. And yeah, just keeping those connections up and I think, you know, doing, doing work that's just, you know, for fun and building the portfolio and sharing that work, you know, that helps as well. So you know, little by little it doesn't have to be, it doesn't have to be, you know, this huge stressful thing. And in fact, the more stress I put on myself, the worse it seems to get. So it's better if I just stay the course and little by little it gets there.

[Nikki Klosser]

Okay, very cool. Okay, so you've mentioned Cambodia a few times and I'm sure people have gathered by now that your passion project does involve Cambodia. Yeah. I'm wondering if you can tell us a little bit about what it is that you do and how it feeds your soul. And before you get into that, I just want to say that I think it's really important to talk about this because as photographers I think we can kind of get stuck in a rut where it's just always what the client needs and what the client wants, which is great because the clients pay my bills. Like that's super, super important to me. But there are times where I just want to shoot for fun because I want to. This is the second time I've done this at my kids school. I used to be a school social worker. I know how hard these teachers work. And so I go into the school and I do headshots for the whole staff. Whoever Wants to. I set up for two hours, two days after school, and I'm gifting them a headshot now. Is it a lot of work? Yeah, I mean, it's not, you know, they're not massive schools, but I really, really enjoy it because these, these teachers come in and. And parapros and, you know, all the other important people that run the school, and they are like, I hate having my photo taken. I'm gonna, you know, like, oh, it's the worst. And it's so fun to get their responses of how much they love their photos and to be able to give them that gift. To me, it feels good. And it's also good marketing for me because a lot of the staff have kids that are going to be seniors, which I. I do personal branding and seniors, but really I'm doing this more so for the high school senior aspect of it.

[Kirsten Balani]

Yeah.

[Nikki Klosser]

And I've booked multiple high school senior shoots because I'm doing this, you know, and it's like I do it for one, because it feels good, and two, for business, you know, So I just wanted to throw it out there that if whatever it is that feels good to you to do as a passion project, I highly recommend doing it. It feeds our soul and it just gives you practice. I mean, there's so many different benefits to it, but.

[Kirsten Balani]

Okay, there's really not a downside.

[Nikki Klosser]

I'll shut up now. Tell us about your project.

[Kirsten Balani]

I should probably explain a little bit first and how I got to Cambodia, because I think it's. The project probably started many years before I even actually started the project, if that makes any sense. But I was an elementary music teacher for over 20 years, and so I can really relate to your comments about school and teachers and how hard they work. But the school that I was teaching at here in Alaska, private school, we had a family that came that moved from Cambodia and they had been there for like 15 years. They wanted their sons to finish high school in the States. So our school got the idea. Wouldn't it be great to do a project where we kind of took a team of high school students to Cambodia and I'd never been there, but I. My husband and I ended up chaperoning the team that went. And that was 2011. And both my husband and I just completely fell in love with the country and the people and it really changed everything. So 2011, we went on that two week mission trip chaperoning high school students, and 2012, we did the same thing, except for we stayed a little bit longer. The team came Home. And after two weeks, and we went for two weeks up to the northern part of Cambodia by ourselves. And we did some work with teachers in classrooms, mostly teaching teachers how to teach, if that makes sense. Just kind of supporting them in education. Yeah. And so then the third year, we were going to do the same thing. So this was 2013, and my son was actually going to get married that year and he ended up getting married during the time that the team was going. And so we couldn't do it. And somehow we still do not know to this day what happened. Going on our own for a month turned into let's sell everything and my husband retired from his job and let's move to Cambodia. And so we did that and we were there for a year and we worked in education because that was kind of our background. But I was always taking pictures of people along the way. And I remember an experience I had when we lived there in 2013, 2014. We had gone to the market and just as we were getting ready to head back home, there was, I saw a woman who was carrying this big tray on top of her head and she had this polka dotted hat on and this tray balanced on top of it and she had some fruit of some kind on the top. I think it was bananas. And she just caught my eye and I asked her if I could take her picture. And she turned around and I took like one shot and I thanked her and I started to walk away and I looked at the back of my camera and just something grabbed my heart and I got in the, in the tuk tuk and I told my husband, I said, something just happened. And he's like, what? I was like, I took this lady's picture and something happened. I don't know, but I just, I feel something. And so from that moment on, it just really became a passion to photograph the Cambodian people and just the friendly interaction that would happen there. So Fast forward to 2015. And I was doing some work for another NGO who works in education, and they were doing a Day in the Life project where this was for their donors back in the States to see, you know, where the resources were going, the schools that, and the students that were being supported. And so they would give me a list of students and then I would go to the village and I would spend time with the student and their family and in their community and, and, you know, take pictures and share that then with the organization. And so one of the students that I was assigned to was a boy who was about 8 years old and he was being raised by his grandparents. And so as we sat down to talk to the family, the grandfather started telling us about his life during the war. And he told an incredible story. He had been part of the opposition forces because Cambodia had years of civil war leading up to the fall of Phnom penh, which was April 17, 1975, so 50 years ago. And at one point, he had been captured by the Khmer Rouge, and he was chained to the back of a truck and drugged down a dirt road. But he escaped and was shot. I mean, it was. It was quite a story. And the whole time that he was telling the story, his grandson was laying there on the bed with his eyes just huge, listening to the tale. And I thought that was really something, watching the history being handed down that way. And so as we were leaving, I mentioned this to the grandfather, and I asked, you know, has he heard much of that story before? And he said, no, until today, I've never spoken of any of it. And I just got chills, and I still get chills thinking about that. And so that was 2015, and that was a moment where I started really noticing the older generation a lot more than I had previously. And every time I would see an old person, I would think, oh, they probably have an incredible story to tell, you know. Yeah. And so going forward, 2018, my husband and I were back living in Cambodia full time. Like I said, we lived there full time. 2013, 14, that school year, and then we moved back late 17, my husband took a job as a principal, elementary principal for an international school. And I was teaching high school photography. And one night we were driving somewhere, and I saw this really old man on the side of the road. And normally when we're driving someplace and I see a person or a picture, I'll be kind of, you know, suggest, like, oh, we should have stopped. It could have been a great picture, and blah, blah. My husband's always says, you need to be more forceful. You need to tell me when to stop. And so this time I saw this old man and I said, stop, I have to get out. I have to take his picture. And I grabbed my camera and I ran across the street, and he was kind of tending to, like, a little flower garden at the side of the road. And I asked if I could take his picture. And. And he said yes. And when he looked up, it was that same connection that I had seen, you know, back in the market in 2013. It was just something clicked. And so I, you know, got to know him a little bit. It turned out he was 98 years old and he and his wife actually allowed me to take a formal portrait of both of them. And then I asked, you know, could I hear about your life? And so that was how this project started. I, since then and up to now, I photographed just over 50 elderly Cambodians and taken their testimony of what their life was like during the war. And so that's, that's the project that I've been working on for the past seven years.

[Nikki Klosser]

Hey, just a quick break to tell you that since you're here listening, you have access to a really great offer for our listeners only. We have a special promo code you can use to get 50% off the cost of membership. Just go to theportraitsystem.com or click the link in the description and use the promo code PODCAST50 to get 50 off of a membership. We rarely discount membership, so this is a big deal. As I hope you already know, the membership is how I and so many guests on this podcast reached our success. And it gives you access to countless amazing videos, an awesome community, and all the tools you need to build a massively successful business. So use the code podcast50Now to join the community and to start building the business of your dreams.

I'll see you there. I encourage people to look at some of the photos on your website, KirstenBalani.com because, you know, I'm looking through these. It's very nostalgic for me because I have been to Cambodia a couple times.

[Kirsten Balani]

Yeah.

[Nikki Klosser]

And it's very nostalgic, you know, the, the floating river. I mean, people live in the floating lakes where people live.

[Kirsten Balani]

Yeah.

[Nikki Klosser]

And they travel by these little canoe type boats. I remember the very first time I was there. Gosh, it was so wild. I was, you know, just kind of taking a tour on one of these lakes and there was this boy and he was floating in a, like a big kind of bucket. It was a little bit bigger than a bucket with like a broken oar. I mean he was like 6.

[Kirsten Balani]

Yeah.

[Nikki Klosser]

And he's just like paddling along in a bucket and my mouth was just like open.

[Kirsten Balani]

Yeah, it's crazy.

[Nikki Klosser]

This was back in 2006. So I was not a professional photographer at the time. I just had a point and shoot camera. But I mean, what an amazing place Cambodia is between Angkor Wat and Granted, I've only been to Siem Reap and you know, in the outskirts in Angkor Wat. You know, both times that I went. But yeah, I freaking fell in love with this country.

[Kirsten Balani]

It's easy to do colors and people.

[Nikki Klosser]

And everyone says Thailand is the land of smiles, which I love Thailand as well. But I was like, cambodia, these people are just so warm and friendly. And I had such a great experience both times that I was there.

[Kirsten Balani]

That's so glad to hear that. Yeah, it's like I said, easy to fall in love with the country. And actually now. And we can talk more about it, I guess, if. If you want. But my husband and I take a small team of people to Cambodia every January. It's a Pictures with a Purpose workshop where we introduce people to Cambodia. So if that's something that people want to do, we just opened bookings for that. So we keep it very small because we want people to have a personal experience. But, you know, ultimately we're helping the people connect through the arts.

[Nikki Klosser]

Yeah, sorry, I didn't mean to interrupt you. No better way to go with someone who has good contacts there and knows the area and knows people and knows where to go and where the best places are to do photography and meet people and all of that. So that sounds like a really, really cool experience. And people can find out more about that on your website.

[Kirsten Balani]

Yes, it's on the website KirstenBalani.com@pictures with a Purpose Workshop.

[Nikki Klosser]

Cool.

[Kirsten Balani]

Yeah.

[Nikki Klosser]

Yeah, I can't recommend it enough. It's. It's like, there's just something about that place. And Angkor Wat is just. I. I could, like, break out into tears just thinking about how magical that place is.

[Kirsten Balani]

Oh, truly, it is so gorgeous.

[Nikki Klosser]

Like, okay, so the first time I went, I traveled alone. I went. I took a trip in 2006. I was in my. I think I was like, 25, 24, 25, something like that. And I traveled to Thailand and Cambodia by myself. I never felt, as a woman traveling alone, threatened or anything. I felt really more taken care of, if anything.

[Kirsten Balani]

Oh, yeah, definitely.

[Nikki Klosser]

But when I went to Angkor Wat, I was like, it's one of those core memories of my life, just standing there in awe, walking around, and you just can feel the history. It is so incredible. And then in 2014, I was hired to shoot a wedding in Thailand. So I was paid to go to Thailand. And I said to my husband, because he went with me as my assistant, and I was like, we've got to go to Cambodia. I have to show you Angkor Wat. You have to experience this. I have goosebumps just thinking about it and seeing him be able to see it for the first time, which I'm sure is really cool with the students that go with you, for them to see it for the first time is just amazing. But to see it, you know, see his reaction to it and we just stood there thinking, what in the, like the 13, 14, hundreds, people were building these massive structures and carving faces into them, like way up high.

[Kirsten Balani]

I mean, and you just think, how is this possible?

[Nikki Klosser]

Yeah, those like trees where they're the roots grow. These roots are growing around everything. Like, if you want to take some really amazing cool, just brilliant with colors and culture and character photographs, like, this is the place to go.

[Kirsten Balani]

Definitely. And you know, one of the things that we do on the, on the workshop is we have a couple of models that go with us to Angkor Wat and we go through all like the traditional clothing and what the colors mean and all the jewelry and everything. And then we go and photograph with the temples at the backdrop and there's so many little small temples that people don't often go and visit. And there's nothing like that experience of being in the jungle and you can, the air is so still and it's so quiet and it's. That's really one of the highlights of the trip for me is working with these models in that area. It's just very beautiful. So I, I need to share more pictures of that. I've got tons of pictures of that. But again, that gets back to myself.

[Nikki Klosser]

Update your social media with all of that. I don't know if you have, but I do anyways. It's this really honestly, the purpose of me interviewing was not to try and like sell people to go to Cambodia, you know, obvious obviously, but it's hard to not sell it. Like it's just so. I just love it so much and traveling in general, if it's something that you can swing financially and time wise and I feel like it can really ignite a new passion of photography and just to really light you up again. And that's not to say you don't come home and you continue your client work and do your thing and whatever. And that's great. Like that's what in 2014 when I went, I was a full time photographer at the time and came home and did my thing again. But wow, it really just, gosh, it just got me inspired again.

[Kirsten Balani]

And I think it really elevates too, like especially working with the people in Cambodia, just then coming back to the States, you know you're going to be changed by the experience in all the best ways. And so it just comes out then when you interact with people here. But yeah, bringing all of that Back to the States. It's. It. It definitely translates into the work that you do here.

[Nikki Klosser]

So, yeah, I can't recommend it enough. And when I started traveling when I was in my 20s and, you know, leading into my 30s, I. I would choose places that, like, I couldn't afford to go to Europe. Like, I was traveling on credit card. I was in debt back then. Like, you know, and like, I. I chose Morocco.

[Kirsten Balani]

Yeah.

[Nikki Klosser]

Randomly. And I knew it would be cheap when I got there as a traveler. And one thing that was really interesting about Morocco is that a lot of the women cover and now you can only see their eyes. And you really get good at, like, reading expressions through the eyes.

[Kirsten Balani]

That's all you see.

[Nikki Klosser]

You know, there were just so many amazing takeaways. And I have to say, when, you know, my friends and family who are like, of all the places you traveled, what are your favorites? And Cambodia and Morocco, aside from the Caribbean, but that's a given. But Cambodia and Morocco are my standout. Oh, God. And Nepal. God, I spent so much time in Nepal, too. Oh, if you can swing it, do it, do it.

[Kirsten Balani]

And I should say, too, you know, again, this is not. Not that we got together to talk about, you know, pictures with a purpose, but just so that people have a clear idea. We visit a lot of different aspects of Cambodian culture when we're there. You mentioned the floating villages, and we do go out to a floating village and learn about the fishing industry and kind of life there. We also visit an elephant sanctuary because Cambodia is. Has just recently started identifying and trying to preserve its elephant population. And that's an incredible experience. And then there's also a Lotus Farm, which is fairly new, but it's an incredible experience going there because not only is it very easy to get some lovely pictures, but it has 100% zero waste farm that provides, you know, jobs for a village that's very nearby. And so it's just incredible to see what other people have done. They go to Cambodia, they're inspired by the people and what they see, and they say, hey, I can help with that. And so these. These different NGOs or. Or other, you know, opportunities, they go, and they make a difference. They make an impact. And so we want other people through these trips to, you know, connect with the people and definitely be able to bring home some lovely pictures. But, you know, to see, to be inspired, to make an impact wherever your heart is drawn. Not just to Cambodia. Maybe it's someplace right in your own town. But, you know, that inspiration of being on a Trip like that can, can impact you going forward and making decisions about what you want to do, what like you said initially, like, feeds your soul.

[Nikki Klosser]

So yeah, I could talk about this forever, but I have to. One thing I wanted to talk about is how, you know, you're juggling a lot. You have a full time job, you have your part time photography business plus the Cambodia work. How are you, how are you juggling it? Like, I feel like that is one of the things that, that we all, you know, struggle with sometimes is, is that balance of work, life, personal life, making money, you know, having fun, all of it. How. How do you handle it all?

[Kirsten Balani]

Yeah, it's a lot. I don't do it all by myself though. Like my husband is he, like, he does a lot and so he runs. We have our own nonprofit and our work that we do, we do a lot of work with Cambodian teachers, I should say also we have, through our nonprofit, we mentor and support about 145 Cambodian teachers across seven different organizations.

[Nikki Klosser]

Amazing.

[Kirsten Balani]

That reaches about 3,000 students. So my husband handles the majority of that. He takes the lead with all of that. But it's really interesting how the photography and the education nonprofit work really dovetails a lot and intermingles. And so I take the lead on the photography stuff. So it's, you know, we have a good distribution of labor that way, but we love it. And then, you know, my job with the university is tremendous. I'm so thankful for it because it allows me to be able to go wherever and work flexibly. Yeah. And at the same time, I get a lot. I think it's just like doing other kinds of, you know, service work. Even though my university work is a job, I get so much inspiration from my students and being able to, you know, look at their work every week. And it's community, it's community around photography. And that really keeps me going in so many ways. So I think that's important. I'm not just out here, you know, juggling a bunch of things on my own. It's. There's a lot of pieces, a lot of people coming together. So.

[Nikki Klosser]

Yeah. Oh, this is so cool. You know, and I feel like I talk too much about myself sometimes, so. Sorry.

[Kirsten Balani]

It's very inspirational hearing you.

[Nikki Klosser]

Back when I was first starting my, When I decided I, you know, was burned out on social work, I ended up starting a nonprofit where we did autism education in developing countries.

[Kirsten Balani]

Oh, wonderful. I didn't know that.

[Nikki Klosser]

Yeah. Our first project was in Nepal and we worked with Autism Care Nepal and we helped Educate the government about what autism was because so many of these kids were not diagnosed. Doctors didn't know what it was, families didn't know what it was. But there was a core group of parents in Kathmandu who, who knew what it was. And you know, they started a center and we did outreach and that sort of thing. And I brought with me a speech pathologist, an ot. Did we know what we were totally doing? No, we were a bunch of volunteers all in our own specialty, trying to do the best we can to, you know, teach teachers. We did some teacher training and like I said, work with the government. We did some parent training. Like it was a whirlwind. And then the second time we went back, I had already started my photography business, so I had my dslr. I was able to take really amazing photos of the service that we were doing. Right. So then I was able to put that on our website. And having those amazing photos I 100% believe led us to our next project which was in the Maldives. So at the time, the president of the Maldives, his wife, her like charity kind of project that she did as the president's wife was autism and starting a center there. And she found us. And I swear it's because like the website looked great. The image, I was able to tell a story through these photos. And she invited us and so our team went to the freaking Maldives. They put us up in like an island resort. I'm not even kidding. And then we took over boat to the mainland in Malay, where the, you know, the capital is. And that's where we did our work. And then we went back and snorkeled until the sun went down. When we were done, you know, it was unreal. But I firmly believe that being, you know, if I didn't have those professional photos and that sort of thing for that project, I don't know if it would have led to Maldives. And so, gosh, it's just as amazing. It's like marketing.

[Kirsten Balani]

Yeah.

[Nikki Klosser]

Even though I wasn't really trying to.

[Kirsten Balani]

Yeah, no, that wasn't my goal. Yeah, that's. There are parallels definitely between doing non profit work and running your business because you know, we have to, as a non profit, you have to have money coming in otherwise you can't do the work. And that's, that's just the way the system is, you know.

[Nikki Klosser]

Right.

[Kirsten Balani]

So yeah, having those photos out there. And even like I was saying, I was, I was doing some work for another NGO who was doing the Stay in the Life project because they, there's also an accountability level when you're doing nonprofit work that donors want to see where their money is going. And so you show the work you're doing and more work comes to you. And that's very much like what we do, you know, with our businesses in the States. Right, so. And there's a, yeah, a huge parallel that way.

[Nikki Klosser]

As a photographer, we have a gift. We have the gift of. And something we do talk about a lot is giving people portraits of their family members that they will have for the rest of their lives, of their kids, of their parents, you know, of themselves. We have that gift to do that. But the other gift that we have is to kind of spread awareness around what's happening in the world or in our town or, you know, whatever we want to bring attention to, that we feel passionate about is something we have the gift to do with our cameras. And it's just really cool. In addition to being able to have this business doing what we love, making money, being able to also incorporate things that matter to us through photos. It's just so cool. It's just so cool to be a photographer all around.

[Kirsten Balani]

It is because exactly what you said, it's so true. The job of a photographer, really, no matter if it's non profit work or, you know, with your business in your hometown, is you're connecting people and you're creating a pictorial legacy. So, you know, you're connecting people with, with other people, whether it's family members or others. You're connecting people with places and events and history and, and you know, no matter what genre you're working in, that's kind of what we do. So it is a gift and it's a great honor and blessing to be able to do it.

[Nikki Klosser]

So. So, yeah, definitely. Oh, I love it. I love it. I'm excited to see how your, your next project goes and I'm hoping you'll post more photos.

[Kirsten Balani]

We also have a book I'm working on right now of the the 50 elderly people and that should be done in September. So we're pretty excited about that. And you know, similar kind of to your work with autism. We're hoping that through this book we're going to be able to put more school books in Cambodian classrooms. All of the old people that we interviewed, that I interviewed told us, you know, how they think education is important for the young generation. Many of the elderly people can't read because their life was interrupted by the war or because school wasn't the same in early years in Cambodia and, you know, not like it is today. So many of them just didn't have an opportunity for school, but they recognize the value of it. So we're hoping that through the book project, we'll be able to put 50 books in 50 classrooms for 50 old people in the 50th year anniversary. So that's something we're working on right now.

[Nikki Klosser]

Very cool. That's so exciting. Awesome. Well, I'm excited to see where all of this goes.

[Kirsten Balani]

Thank you. Yeah, we are too. It's kind of a wild ride. I mean, you want to say you have a plan, but you know, a plan, it's just an idea, and then you kind of gotta just see. See where things take you to stay open to opportunities, so.

[Nikki Klosser]

All right, well, thank you for sharing all of that and for the important work that you're doing. Yeah. All right, well, I do have four questions that I always ask at the end of each episode, so I'm wondering if you will answer those for me. The first one is what is something you can't live without when you're doing a photo shoot?

[Kirsten Balani]

Oh, my goodness. I think, you know, it depends on what kind of session I'm doing. If it was, you know, here in the, in the States and doing that kind of work, I, I really love my profoto lights. Something I invested in years ago, and I just, just, I love the simplicity and the power. So I would save my profoto lights, but if it's doing the work in Cambodia, oh my. I've done so much of that work without any kind of extra lighting or anything like that. I would just say a sense of curiosity about people.

[Nikki Klosser]

Okay, great. I love that. All right, number two is how do you spend your time when you're not.

[Kirsten Balani]

Working mostly with family? Alaska is a good place for hiking and getting outside, so we try and get out. I have six grandkids and four of them live nearby, so we, yeah, just enjoy time outside.

[Nikki Klosser]

Fantastic. All right, number three is, I know you said you're pro photo lights, but is there anything else you can think of of a photography specific product you could recommend to people?

[Kirsten Balani]

Let's see. Years ago, I got a camera bag that I absolutely love and it has. Has stood the test of time. So I would probably say my shutter bag. Maybe that doesn't sound too glamorous, but it has served me so well and it still looks brand new. Yeah.

[Nikki Klosser]

Oh, that's nice. Very cool.

[Kirsten Balani]

Yeah. And the other thing, too, like a lot of traveling back and forth. The reason I love that bag so much is because it looks just like a nice leather Handbag. And it doesn't scream, I'm carrying a bunch of expensive photo gear. You know, it is fun. You know, yellow and. Yeah, it's just something that's, it's been with me through a lot of sessions and so I, I, I probably have some sentimental attachments to that as well.

[Nikki Klosser]

Oh, I'm sure. Kirsten, you should see my camera bag. It's like a super old, like, roller suitcase. Like it just looks like a carry on, gray, boring, super old bag. Like it's, I don't know, I feel like I need to do something different. But again, it doesn't scream, you know, expensive equipment and I can throw my, my camera and lenses and my computer in there and call it a day.

[Kirsten Balani]

Yeah, yeah. And you know, you kind of get used to your system, you know, right where everything is, so.

[Nikki Klosser]

Yep, that's exactly right. So, all right, and the last one is, what would you tell people who are just starting out?

[Kirsten Balani]

Gosh, there's so many things that I wish I had known when I was just starting out. I think probably two big ones. One is you have to follow what makes you light up. You know, when I first started getting involved in photography, I took pictures of everything and it was so broad. But if you can, if you can get yourself in a mindset where, you know, like, whether it's people or animals or landscape or whatever your thing is, do that, do that thing. Because the love that you have for it is going to drive you forward in a way that, you know, your work isn't going to look like everybody else's. It's going to be the expression of your own voice and your own style. And then the other thing is, if you're in business, you need to try and build a profitable business and you cannot do it doing photo sessions for a hundred dollars. So that's on the very practical side.

[Nikki Klosser]

But yeah, to add in the first thing that you said, I also think it's important. Sometimes I wonder. I know I didn't think about this back then. What genre fits your lifestyle? Like, I think sometimes people think you have to do weddings in order to make money, which is what I thought when I started. And the next thing I knew, all my weekends were gone, my summer was gone. I was miserable. I was working 12 hours a day. It just did not fit my lifestyle. And when I found personal branding, I was like, okay, here we go. No weekends, no evenings. $2,000 sales average.

[Kirsten Balani]

Yeah.

[Nikki Klosser]

Whereas I think when people first get started, it's like families or, you know, weddings or whatever. When that if you want to work weekends and evenings and you know, then yeah, do that, you know. But anyways, just to think about your lifestyle too.

[Kirsten Balani]

Totally. No, that's great. For sure.

[Nikki Klosser]

All right. Okay. People you can go to, people you can go to. I didn't mean to be like people you can go to. But if you want, if you want to see Kirsten's work, you can go to KirstenBalani.com that's K-I R S T E N B E L L O-N-I.com and learn more. And about your Cambodia workshop too.

[Kirsten Balani]

Yeah, for sure.

[Nikki Klosser]

Well, thank you again, Kristen. This has been really great and let's keep in touch.

[Kirsten Balani]

Yeah, definitely. Thanks so much Nikki.

[Sue Bryce]

Thank you so much for listening to the Portrait System podcast. Your 5 star reviews really help us to continue what we do. So if you like listening, would you mind giving us a review wherever you listen? I also encourage you to head over to Soubre Dasheducation.com where you can find all of the education you need to be a successful photographer. There are over 1000 on demand educational videos on things like post lighting, styling, retouching, shooting, marketing, sales, business and self value. There's also the 90 day startup challenge plus so many downloads showing hundreds of different poses. We have to do checklists for your business, lighting, PDFs. I mean truly everything to help make you a better photographer and to make you more money. Once Again, that's Sue briceducation.com.