← The Portrait System Podcast
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- [00:00]
A
Hey there, it's Nikki Klosser and I want to let you know about an awesome free giveaway for people on our email list. If you haven't already, click the link in our podcast description or go to theportraitsystem.com signup to get on the list. If you sign up, you'll get a free posing 101 PDF to jumpstart things. It's an epic PDF, so you'll definitely want to get this. Also, just by being in our email community, you'll get deals, sales, and information about any of our upcoming events and activities. So head over to theportraitsystem.com signup and and sign up. Today you're listening to the Portrait System podcast.
- [00:35]
B
It took a while for like that mindset to kind of just be absorbed throughout my brain because you don't start off thinking like a professional photographer. You start off thinking like, oh, like is anyone gonna like my work? Or how do I do anything? And so I knew from the beginning, like, I need to learn from other people and I will definitely fast track a lot of things if I don't have to learn it the hard way myself.
- [01:01]
A
Welcome to the Portrait System Podcast. I'm your host, Nikki Klosser and this show is here to help you succeed in the world of photography and business. To help you learn to become financially free, doing what you love and so much more. With over 1 million downloads, countless photographers have taken what they've learned from both our episodes and from theportrasystem.com and they have grown their businesses, quit their day jobs and are designing a life of their dreams. We keep it real and share stories about the ups and downs that come with running a photography business. You'll hear real life stories of how other photographers run their business and you'll learn actionable steps that you can take to reach your own goals. Thank you so much for being here. And let's get started. What if you could go from a brand new photographer to running a six figure business in just a year and a half? My guest today on the Portrait System podcast is Elle Yun and she did exactly that. Elle built her personal branding photography business from the ground up, starting at zero and now her sessions start at $3,000 each. She walks us through how she prices herself confidently, how she gets her clients in the door, and how she creates an experience so amazing that her clients can't stop talking about it and that brings in tons of referrals. She gives us all the information today and I'm so excited to introduce her to you, Elle Yun. Hi, Elle. Welcome to the portrait system. How are you? Good, good.
- [02:25]
B
How are you? So happy to be here.
- [02:27]
A
Yeah, I'm doing well. Where are you recording from?
- [02:30]
B
This is my studio in Fairfax, Virginia.
- [02:33]
A
Okay. And that's pretty close to D.C. area, right?
- [02:37]
B
Yeah, it's about 20 minutes.
- [02:39]
A
Oh, all right. Very close. Yeah. Okay, well, we have a lot to cover today. I'm excited. You're going to talk a lot about personal branding and the market you tap into there and all that good stuff. But before we get into that, I want to hear a little bit about just your experience with starting a business. Like, have you always been a photographer?
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B
I haven't. I've always been an iPhone photographer. Like, I'm the friend that takes pictures at groups and food.
- [03:07]
A
Oh, interesting. Yeah. Okay. So you started, like, how did you even get into this business then if you were only, you know, just an iPhone photographer? What, like, what happened?
- [03:18]
B
So when I was in my 20s, right out of college, I wanted to go into photography, but everyone was advising me, like, oh, it's not very stable. You should get a 9 to 5 and maybe do that later on. And so I just paused that dream and put that on hold for a long time. And I bounced around lots of different jobs and eventually found my place in graphic design. So I was doing art in that kind of way.
- [03:40]
A
Okay.
- [03:40]
B
Graphic design marketing for a lot of realtors at a real estate brokerage. And then once I had my third child when he was about one years old, I was working remote, but it was just too hard to juggle everything and get all my work done within that 9 to 5 block. And so I was like, okay, I'm going to be a stay at home mom. I quit my job. And after eight months, I said, this is too hard to be a stay at home mom. I need some kind of interaction with adults. I need some kind of creative outlet. And that's when I don't exactly remember how, but I came back to photography and I was like, I'm about to turn 40. I would love to pursue this and see what can happen. And so I just jumped in. I was following a couple people on Instagram and I saw someone was using a Canon R5. So I was like, okay, I'm gonna buy a Canon R5. And I just. I had never used manual settings before and I just jumped in with both feet.
- [04:33]
A
Oh, yeah, you just went for it? Yeah. So super random. But I used to play roller derby. And so I was connected in the roller derby community and the photographer for the team in Seattle, who I was friends with a couple of the girls. He took me under his wing and he taught me how to shoot. Like, I was watching YouTube videos and trying to figure out the relationship between, you know, F stop and shutter speed and all of that. And I'm not a super quick learner when it comes to tech, but it was so nice to have Frank. Frank Blau out there. Appreciate you. He totally taught me. But, yeah, it's. It can be intimidating, especially jumping right to an R5. And so how was that experience for you?
- [05:19]
B
I think that the camera taught me how to take pictures. Sometimes I wasn't even fully sure what I was doing. Like, trying to remember everything that I was reading online and all the tutorials, but I felt like I had, like, a bumper of grace because my camera was so good.
- [05:36]
A
That helps.
- [05:37]
B
Yeah. So I think that really helped me to get better.
- [05:40]
A
Okay. I have an R6. I didn't make the leap to the R5, but I did the R6. And it really is amazing. Yeah, you know, where it automatically focuses on the person's eye and. Yeah, it's very helpful. Okay, so you learned how to use your camera and then what happened?
- [05:59]
B
So at first, I was just doing shoots for friends and family, and I was saying, hey, I'm just starting out. I need, like, portfolio pieces if you want to come out. And so, of course, a lot of people are, like, interested in free photos. And so that's how I kind of built my portfolio in the beginning. And I had my relationship with some people in the real estate industry from when I was a graphic designer there. And so I was like, hey, branding session. Are you curious? Are you interested? And so these are people who had never done one before, and I also had never done one before. So we kind of learned together. So I had, like, a couple friends, realtor friends, who were, like, willing to explore and try different things with me. And it was actually so much fun. It's kind of just like hanging out with a friend. But, like, you have a camera.
- [06:44]
A
Right.
- [06:45]
B
So I think that helps to get, like, those natural photos and reactions, and it just went on from there.
- [06:52]
A
Okay, so you built your portfolio with people, you know, that sort of thing, shooting for free. That's so common. That's how I did it too. I really just. I did a lot of shoots for free just to. Because if you're going to charge industry pricing, you have to know what you're doing. I mean, the photos don't have to be the best in the world, but you have to somewhat know what you're doing for sure. So having that practice is so important. Something I know about you, though, is it was only like a year and a half later that you, like, your sales average went way up. Is that right?
- [07:26]
B
Yes. So my entire first year of business, I think I made about 27k in sales. And so even that, I was, like, kind of proud of myself. I was like, okay, I did something. And then this year I'm on track to possibly hit six figures.
- [07:44]
A
Nice. That's awesome.
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B
Yes. And I'm just really excited because the money is really nice. But for me, it's like proof that people kind of believe in what I'm doing and that they get it. They get what I'm trying to create here and willing to invest in that. And so that's really exciting for me.
- [07:59]
A
So you've had your business going for a year and a half and you're set to make six figures this year within. Yeah. Yeah. That's pretty remarkable.
- [08:09]
B
Thank you.
- [08:11]
A
Yeah. Tell people about what your. I know you said branding, but tell people about your genre and who your target client. Target market is.
- [08:21]
B
I think my target market is women who have maybe had a couple branding sessions before. Like, they're already investing in their marketing and their visibility, but it just hasn't really hit or landed for them. And I think what I offer, I try to offer like a full production of where I will talk to you and really get to know your business. We will talk about, like, we'll talk about poses, we'll talk about hair and makeup. We'll talk about the props, the adjectives that they want people to think when they look at their branding. And so it's kind of more like a handheld, like, higher touch process. And even after they receive their photos, I'm so happy to do like that post session consult where like, oh, you could use these photos for this, this and this. Remember we talked about this and of. Make it really easy for them to just level up their branding.
- [09:09]
A
Okay. I love that doing a consultation and really understanding people and what they want and what they really want to portray to their potential clients is so important. So I love that you do that. Now when. When people think photo shoot, you know, they probably think you show up somewhere, you take a couple photos, and that's it. How are you conveying that you're doing this whole process where you're gonna really hone in on what it is they want and hold their hand through it and even help them afterwards?
- [09:38]
B
I think through. I'm trying to Find other ways to portray it in my Instagram and social media, but really it's through the discovery call, where we sit down and I hear what their kind of business problems or hurdles have been, and I try to think of ways that my service will serve them. And I think once they hear about all the different things that I help them through and they understand that I truly care about helping them as a business and as a human, as a woman, they're much more like, okay, I can trust this person. She's not just trying to take pictures and bounce, but she wants to do this together with me, like a collaborative process.
- [10:19]
A
Okay, so you said discovery call, but how are you even getting people to do a discovery call? Where are you finding these people? Because I hear this all the time, and I remember being there and where you get your website done and you get your social media up and you're posting and it's crickets. Like, you're not hearing from anyone. So how are you making that happen?
- [10:40]
B
Yeah, that really hit me in a different way that even famous photographers, if they're not kind of out there and putting their message out, they can also have a slump in inquiries. And so I was like, okay, then especially me, I need to be out there, like, meeting people, like, networking, like in person networking, going to different groups in the area, kind of like more organically. So I focused on that a lot in the beginning. And so the connections I made at different women entrepreneur groups, things like that have really helped as well. And through that, I get referrals. And these days I've been marketing my 40 over 40 campaign. And surprisingly, a lot of women who want to do the 40 over 40 are business owners, and they end up kind of be converting to branding session clients. So they kind of combine it together. So I have that option for them. And so, yeah, it's a great way for, like, them to hear about it and talk to me.
- [11:38]
A
In person. Networking was. Was instrumental for my business. That's how I. That's how I completely grew my business and just made so much money in that way and referrals and all of that. I think sometimes people cringe at that thinking, like, I have to actually go and be face to face and in networking, you know, business meetings and all of that, it's like, oh, my gosh. And it can be really, really intimidating. Is this something that you feel like, like, are you an extrovert? Are you really comfortable with that? You know, like, what was that process like for you? I guess.
- [12:11]
B
Okay, I will say that I'm pretty introverted, but I like people, so I like meeting people, but I'm very shy. I tend to not make the first move. And so that was all my 20s and 30s. But something about turning 40, it just. I feel free. I feel like if I see a room full of people, I don't think about what they're thinking about me or how they're going to judge me or think about me. I'm just like, oh, I get this opportunity to meet these people and talk to them about their life, and then hopefully we'll find something that clicks. And so I just feel like the older I get, the more comfortable I am in who I am and what I do. And so I'm just more excited to get to know them as people.
- [12:50]
A
Okay. Yeah. I love that. I'm 48, and I felt a shift also when I turned 40. It's like I just give less Fs or something. But I think the other thing too, that you said, it's really important. You don't have to be this extreme extrovert to be successful at these meetings. There are so many things that you can do to really connect with people. And a lot of it starts with just being curious and asking questions and not making it all about you. When I would go to these meetings, I'm not in my head. I'm not like, I'm gonna make this person a client. Like, I'm gonna tell them all about me and whatever. A lot of times, people didn't even know what I did at first. Cause I was just constantly asking people questions about them. And I think that shows that genuine that you genuinely care, that you are interested in what they do. And eventually it turns back onto, like, okay, what do you do? And then you've already got this sort of connection, you know, like, to me, that that was crucial when it came to networking. So I guess. I guess I'm saying that because if you are introverted and if you're, like, breaking out into a cold sweat thinking about doing this, it really doesn't have to be hard. And it's just something you have to do. And maybe it's not, you know, necessarily networking meetings or whatever, but if you're in the personal branding genre, which is such an amazing genre, I feel like it's really difficult to truly grow your business without that. I put it out there. I said it. Okay, so I want to back up a little bit because I want to talk more about how you're getting your clients in marketing. But I thought of something and I wanted to back up, because to go from making 27,000 your first year to now you're on track to 100,000. Did you have, like, a business plan or a business model or, you know, how did you even know, like, how to price yourself and, you know, just like, your business plan in general?
- [14:49]
B
Okay. I found the portrait system pretty early on as I was doing my Google research. And this.
- [14:55]
A
This podcast or our membership?
- [14:58]
B
The membership.
- [14:59]
A
Okay.
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B
And the podcast, too, like, through the connection. And so through there, like, I started taking all the classes, like, learned about Sue Brice, and I saw your. I actually think I purchased the branding package that you have as well.
- [15:14]
A
Oh, nice. The personal branding system.
- [15:16]
B
Yes. And then once I was in the Facebook group, I learned about Cat Ford quotes, and she was just branching off and doing her own thing. And so I became one of her. I signed up for her coaching.
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A
Awesome.
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B
So I did that for most of my first year.
- [15:30]
A
Okay, so you really dove straight into the education part of it.
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B
Yes, yes, for sure.
- [15:36]
A
Yeah. When I think back about when I was first starting, if I didn't, like, if I didn't have certain instructors that I learned from, I would not be where I'm at today. And there's a fine line between just constantly buying more education, more education, more education, and not taking action and actually finding something that resonates with you. A business model. Just something that resonates with you. You can tweak it and make it your. But taking action once you have that education at your fingertips, I feel like that is crucial. And I'm assuming with how far you've come in such a short amount of time that you did take action, I think that's a mistake people make again. They put the website and they get a portfolio and they do the social media, and then they sit and wait. And that action piece is, like, so crucial.
- [16:28]
B
Yeah, definitely. For sure. I mean, I have my share of courses and workshops that are still sitting in my downloads folder that I haven't opened up. But really, it took a while for, like, that mindset to kind of just be absorbed throughout my brain. Because you don't start off thinking like a professional photographer. You start off thinking like, oh, like, is anyone gonna like my work? Or how do I do anything? And so I knew from the beginning, like, I need to learn from other people, and I will definitely fast track a lot of things if I don't have to learn it the hard way myself. Like, let me learn from their mistakes.
- [17:01]
A
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And you don't have to recreate the wheel Is the thing. You don't have to figure this all out on your own. Like, there is so much support out there to help you. And again, when you do find a business model that is interesting to you or an educator that speaks to you, you can kind of make it your own. You know, there are certain things that I learned way back when. I took pieces from different parts and then just put it all together. Yeah. So it's. Yeah. I guess I'm just saying out there, if you are not. If you're just unsure of what to do, find something that resonates. The portrait system obviously works. Worked for Elle. It worked for me. It works for tons of people. But just find something. There's so much education at your fingertips to really get you going. But then you have to take the action. That is, like, have to take the action. Okay, so you started going to groups, meetings. Now, something that people ask me all the time is, how do I find these meetings? And they aren't in my town and that sort of thing. And I know you're in a larger area, you know, the Virginia D.C. area, you know, heavily populated and that sort of thing. So some people are gonna say, well, I don't live in a big city. And I'll tell you, like, I grew my business in Seattle, where there were lots of meetings. Where I'm at now in Chelsea, Michigan, is a very small town, so I do have to drive. And actually, when I did live in Seattle, I was driving to Issaquah, which would sometimes take an hour to get there. You have to think outside of. If you're in a small town, you have to think outside of your town. Where can you go? So, okay, back to you. How are you finding these groups? And tell us a little bit about that.
- [18:38]
B
I think it's easy. Once you start following local businesswomen and business owners in the area, you kind of start to see the groups that are behind the inner circles, I guess, of friendships or business connections. And once you get to know a few, introduced into other groups as well. And so I think for me, I just had a very open heart about it. I even helped to start a Nova Photog social club where just photographers in the area can just meet up for coffee, for dinners. We have a holiday party. Like, we're having our second holiday party this fall.
- [19:16]
A
That's awesome.
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B
And, yeah, I think just being open to people is a game changer rather than just, like, sitting on my computer alone at home, like, what can I do for my business? So, yeah, being active.
- [19:30]
A
I mean, I Know, you knew people, you know, like you said in the real estate industry and that sort of thing. Were you just Google searching meetups in the area or were people telling you about them or, you know, specifically? Like, is there just one group you go to? Are you spreading yourself across multiple groups?
- [19:48]
B
There's one group called Made for Mothers that I found out, I think through a realtor friend. She had heard about it, but it's for a lot of moms who are in business. So I went to a couple of their in person events where you get to just meet people, have a couple speakers, and then I joined their mastermind. So I did two of those, like a mastermind in the fall and in the winter. And so I still keep in touch with most of those women to this day. And yeah, we just show each other what's possible here in Virginia.
- [20:16]
A
All right. And it's just that one group that you're part of or are you part of multiple.
- [20:21]
B
I'm part of that. I'm not in. I'm not in the coaching anymore.
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A
And not so much for education, but just for how you get your clients is what I'm talking about.
- [20:32]
B
Okay. I think right now, 40 over 40 has really been a great helper in getting clients because the women who do it are so excited about it and they share it with their friends and then they're all seeing the photos and they want it done. And then when they actually got on the call to talk to me, they're like, actually, I'm a business owner, so I want to use this for my branding. And then I'm like, okay, well, I think you might be interested in a branding collection, like the branding session. And then it just goes from there.
- [20:58]
A
Okay, okay. So just one more quick thing about groups. You had said it was a mom group. I actually joined a group called Business Among Moms. Before I wasn't even pregnant. I didn't have kids, I wasn't pregnant. But I got a lot of clients from that group. And I guess if you're out there wondering, how am I going to find a group? Try different groups, see what feels comfortable to you. Some people really love the regimented. Like you have to come to a certain amount of meetings and do however many referrals. I was like, nope, I don't like to be told what to do. I like to just do my. You know, that was not the type of group for me. I wanted a group that was more flexible. You know, just whatever it is that works really well for you, just try different groups that kind of match that and see what feels right. And it might, your first meeting, you might kind of be like, oh, I don't know. Like I remember going to one and I felt like it was very clicky and I was like, I don't know if I can do this, but I was like, I'm going to make these ladies like me. I'm going to do kill them with kindness and I'm going to find my way to make these ladies like me. And eventually I stuck with that group for a long time. But the thing is with, with networking groups, you hire who you know like and trust. Right. So if someone in the group refers you and says, I had my photos done with Elle, it was amazing. I absolutely loved it. I can almost promise you that someone else is also going to book you and then it's just going to snowball from there. It's all about the relationship building and it's all about just gaining that trust and showing the services that you provide and being just interested in what they do. It just makes such a difference. So I'll get off my soapbox now about that.
- [22:48]
B
No, for sure. I fully agree. And it takes a while to find a good group. I've gone to different gatherings of people that it just did not feel right or I didn't feel comfortable. So yeah, keep trying.
- [23:01]
A
Yeah. Okay. So I know you had mentioned before that your, your target market is obviously women, female business owners, but a lot of your business owners are six figures, seven figure business owners. So you, according to, you know, your website and your Instagram, you, you target like luxury or you make it a luxury branding experience. You know, you use that word, luxury. Your prices start at $3,000 and your website really matches that. It looks really professional and it does look luxury. So I feel like your messaging and your website seem to match. Now I know I keep kind of honing in on this, but finding those clients who are willing to spend the money. I know you said 40 over 40 and networking groups, but I guess let's, let's make that connection between the 40 over 40 and then, and now you're getting these, you know, six and seven figure business clients. Like how does that all connect?
- [24:06]
B
I think it's very close together because 40 women over 40 often feel like they're invisible. Like they often feel like they shouldn't be on camera, that it's the younger people who are more appealing, like visually and personality wise. And so they're shying away. And then I feel like there's this also, also this movement of people Saying, you know what? I don't care. I'm going to show myself the way I am and be authentic and take it or leave it. This is my mark on the earth. And so 40 or 40 is really to show women what they can be. And then branding, I feel, I think everyone is kind of coming to terms with if you have a business on Instagram, especially small business, people want to know you because there's so many options oversaturated in every single field. And so what's going to set it apart is you. And that was a little bit hard for me because, okay, then I have to do that for me as well. Like, I have to show up. I can't hide behind my photos. And so I really have to practice what I preach. And so that's been a journey for me as well, to kind of put myself out there so that I can show my clients that, yeah, you can do it, too.
- [25:09]
A
How do you market your 40 over 40?
- [25:12]
B
I market it through Instagram posts. But what's been most hitting with people is when I talk about it in my stories, I just am like, walking out somewhere or at home and I'm like, I'm either talking about the session or I just did the session with someone and how it was. And I think a lot of people respond to those kind of posts.
- [25:34]
A
Okay, so if. Yes, I love that. And also, like, hey, just a quick break to tell you that since you're here listening, you have access to a really great offer for our listeners only. We have a special promo code you can use to get 50% off the cost of membership. Just go to theportraitsystem.com or click the link in the description and use the promo code PODCAST50 to get 50% off of a membership. We rarely discount membership, so this is a big deal. As I hope you already know, the membership is how I and so many guests on this podcast reached our success. And it gives you access to countless amazing videos, an awesome community, and all the tools you need to build a massively successful business. So use the code podcast50Now to join the community and to start building the business of your dreams. I'll see you there. I know you said you were a graphic designer and you had all these connections and people before who are maybe following you, because it's like, if you don't have anyone who's watching them, how do you get people in? You know? So do you. But do you have a huge following on Instagram?
- [26:42]
B
No, not at all. I have. I just hit 1400 recently.
- [26:46]
A
Okay, so it's not massive, but you're getting people in from this. Yeah. So I feel like it's so, so, so important. It's not about the big numbers that you have. It's who. It's the quality of your list. It's the quality of your followers. You know, make sure you are speaking to your target market because those are the people who you're going to book. You know, even if you only have a couple hundred people following you, that's all you need.
- [27:13]
B
Yes.
- [27:14]
A
Okay, so I know you said a lot of your 40 over 40 women who do the shoots transition into the personal branding. So start by just telling us. So for 40 over 40, they come in, do they get a free photo? Do they get their hair and makeup done? What do they have to pay? What do they get out of that? And then we'll talk about your personal branding packages and how you get to that $3,000 starting mark.
- [27:36]
B
So the 40 over 40, I don't know if I priced it too low, but it is priced very low at 600 for what you receive, they get a design consult. They get a professional hair and makeup. They have the hour shoot, and they can select their photos afterward. And it also, it involves. There's a written interview where I will learn more about their story, and then it will. That will eventually turn into a magazine, which will be at the gal exhibit that I'm going to do. And so it's really just a special moment to not just have your photos done and keep them to yourself, but really share your photo and your story with others around you, with your community.
- [28:19]
A
I love that.
- [28:20]
B
Yes. And I really recommend, like, friends doing it together so that they can kind of be hyping each other up and be like, wow, like, you know, it feels like a shared experience that you can do together.
- [28:32]
A
I think that even though we should be in photos, women over 40, we absolutely should be. We shouldn't have to have a reason for it. But I feel like this gives people a reason and it makes them feel more comfortable because other women are also doing it with them. And it's not just like, look at me, you know, even though it should be just look at me. But. So I love that. Okay, so they do that, and then you find out they have a business or something. How do you then make that transition from $600 and you get all of this into a personal branding package?
- [29:06]
B
So what I do is I do that right at the discovery call. So we decide then. Okay. Actually, the signature branding collection works a lot better. For your needs at this time. And because it's for a business purpose, it's tax deductible. And that's kind of like an incentive for a lot of people as well. And so I say if you're interested in doing this branding collection, then the 40 over 40 becomes a $200 add on. Oh, and then they're like, oh, nice.
- [29:34]
A
Oh, I like that. Okay, so they don't do the whole the 40 over 40 experience for the 600. You just go straight into. Yes, yes, that's really smart.
- [29:47]
B
And they usually go for the $5,000 signature collection because that also includes B roll. So I'll have my phone, camera and doing, like, little things like clip to use as reels later.
- [29:59]
A
Okay. Of the photo shoot or of them doing what they do during the photo shoot.
- [30:05]
B
It can be bts of the photo shoot itself. But a lot of branding clients, they need, like, little clips of them to use in reels. So usually it's two location. One at my studio for like, more professional studio shots, and then on location, usually at a nicely staged listing. And so I'll do, like, video, like, for at both places.
- [30:25]
A
Okay, so a lot of your clients are real estate agents, then? It sounds like they are, I would.
- [30:29]
B
Say maybe 60% of the branding collection. Branding clients.
- [30:33]
A
Very cool. Tell us about your packages. So you talked about the $5,000 collection. You know, tell us, tell us, where does it start and go up from there?
- [30:42]
B
Well, I really just market the two collections for branding. There's a branding refresh at 3500 and then the signature branding at 5000, and it doubles the amount of photos you get. You get 40 versus 20, as well as the video footage. And so a lot of people hear about the B roll clips, and they're just like, yeah, I need that.
- [31:06]
A
Offer.
- [31:07]
B
That one.
- [31:07]
A
Very cool. Do you hear very often, oh, that's too expensive for me.
- [31:13]
B
I do. Sometimes, I would say a lot of people come to me knowing that my prices are going to be a little bit higher, and especially when they've known me since, like, the beginning, and they're like, oh, you used to charge, like, $200 kind of thing. It's kind of. I feel like a younger me would have felt bad and be like, oh, it's okay, I'll just keep you at the lower price. But I feel like the mindset that I have now is like, yeah, my business has grown this much, and my what I offer has grown exponentially.
- [31:45]
A
I love that. And I love that people have been with you from the Start and they'll still remain clients. I mean, that's something that people talk about is how do I raise my prices if my previous clients were used to paying X amount. But you can see, like I said from your website, you are displaying that you do have this luxury service and product and you're holding their hand through the entire process. They're getting their hair, makeup done, you have a design consultation, all of that. I think that speaks for itself. So, you know, if you are going to raise your prices significantly, make sure that you don't necessarily have to do this, but it gives you that more of like meat and potatoes of what to say to people is, yes, my prices have gone up. And you'll see. Here's why. You know, I think that's really important. So, yeah, so you do you show everything that you're marketing matches the product and quality that you're giving, which I think is. Yeah, that's fantastic. Okay, so take us through. You know, you do the discovery call, you book them in, you're talking to them ahead of time with the consultation. Tell us about the photo shoot itself and what that process is like, are they getting multiple outfits, hair and makeup, that sort of thing?
- [33:03]
B
Yeah, for sure. Especially for the signature branding collection, I say, like, bring eight to nine outfits, because sometimes you bring it and on the day of, like, you're just not feeling it anymore or with the lighting and the colors. And so I always like for them to have more options than less. So I just really love how it starts off with the hair and makeup because they just. They're usually very busy on the go, people like, who's not right? Who's right? So you get to just like, sit and relax and kind of feel pampered, and it kind of calms you down. And then leading into the. Usually we start here at the studio and I think what I offer is, like, I'm not the photographer that will like, yell and be like, do this, do that. But I just kind of see who they are and I kind of respond to it, if that makes sense.
- [33:52]
A
Yes. Like, you're mirroring them.
- [33:54]
B
Yeah, for sure. Mirroring what energy they're giving off. And even though we have, like, custom mood boards that kind of get the overall vibe, I don't look at it very much because we're not here to recreate Pinterest, but we're here to show who you are and your personality and let that kind of open up. And that's not going to happen as much if I'm just like, okay, now Sit here and do this.
- [34:19]
A
Sometimes I find the hardest shoots are when they do come with a million Pinterest photos. And it's like, well, one, my studio or my background doesn't look like that. Two, you don't look like that. And three, you know, it's like the expectation. You're like, oh, my gosh. Yeah. My favorite clients are kind of like, I know the gist of what they want. And then they're like, do your thing. And I swear it ends up working so much better that way.
- [34:45]
B
Yeah, like that trust from a client is like gold.
- [34:49]
A
It really is. And that goes back to the relationship that you've built with them and other people and the referrals. And it all goes back to making connections at those, you know, in person, some, somehow, somewhere. Yeah, it makes a really big difference. Okay, so you do the shoot. Do you do multiple outfits?
- [35:08]
B
Yes. Okay, so we should spend maybe 10 to 15 minutes per outfit. I try to be efficient with my shooting and I try not to over my language. Yeah. And then, so we'll do as much as we can here. I have some like, backdrop areas, plain wall areas, and like this little couch interior kind of area. And so, yeah, we get a good variety from even just here and then on location if they just want something more specific.
- [35:39]
A
Okay, so you do some in studio, some on location, and then are you bringing them back to the studio to do a photo viewing or are you doing this digitally? What does that look like?
- [35:50]
B
So that's one of the things that, like, I was taught that I should just do in person after the shoot. But I waver on that depending on the client, because sometimes they're just like, I'm so exhausted. And then I'm like, okay, would you like to come in?
- [36:02]
A
You're talking about like right after the shoot. Oh, yeah. Like immediate. Yeah, yeah, No, I don't do that either. That stresses me out. Some people love it, but I'm like, no, my brain's fried there. Yeah, okay, sorry, go ahead.
- [36:17]
B
Yeah, okay, so I tell them I am happy to review the photos with you in person here. If you come back to the studio, I can do like a zoom session, go over it, or I can just deliver the unretouched photos in a gallery with a watermark and for you to look at your own pace. And 90% of the time they say, oh, I would prefer just looking at it at my own pace. Send me the gallery. And then I'm like, yeah. And if you have any follow up questions, like whether anything can be edited, I'M definitely here too, talk you through it.
- [36:47]
A
So you send them the completely unedited, just raw photos and they look through them?
- [36:53]
B
Yes. And so what I do is a quick edit. I just edit for, like, exposure and color after culling them. And so this is something that I still haven't given up to AI. I just do that myself, even though it takes a long time, but I send that to them. And then with the ones that they decide on, I edit and throw it in evoto and then give them the final.
- [37:17]
A
Oh, evoto. Life changing. Totally life changing. So good. Yeah. Yeah. We do things differently in that way. I don't. I don't show any unedited. I edit all the ones that I'm gonna show them. I usually retouch for a personal branding shoot between like 35 and 45 photos. And I show them that way. What made you decide to show them completely raw? I mean, a lot of people do it that way. I'm just curious.
- [37:46]
B
Okay. I do it because it takes a lot of time to edit it further. And I want to show them. Usually they get about like 80 to 100 per hour of shooting.
- [37:58]
A
Okay.
- [37:59]
B
So the most I will send them will maybe be like 200 images, but that's a lot. So I try to keep it like 100 or under. And what also I realized is that what I pick is not always what they would pick. And so I try to give them a little bit more space to be like, okay, I think it's okay, but they might love this.
- [38:21]
A
Okay, that makes sense. All right. Interesting. Very cool. Okay, so when it comes to getting paid, do you find that you have to chase them down in order for them to make their choices and to get paid? Because, I mean, that is an experience that a lot of people have had when they're just sending them a gallery on their own time in their own space. So how does that work?
- [38:47]
B
So I usually don't have anything that they would have to select your add on afterward. Typically they just get what they signed up for. And so say they sign up for the $5,000 package, they can either pay that all in full at the time of book, or they can split it in up to like three payments. And those are kind of automated through their. Through Honeybook is what I use. And so I typically find that I don't have to chase them.
- [39:13]
A
Do you give them a timeline? Like, you need to choose these photos by such and such date?
- [39:19]
B
I don't.
- [39:20]
A
Wow. And you don't have any problem getting people to come back and Say, okay, these are the photos I want.
- [39:25]
B
I've only had one person that I had to follow up a couple times to say, like, hey, do you want to go through them together? Or like to say something? But usually they're pretty excited to like pick their photos. If anything, they're like, I can't decide because, like, there's so much, but this is what I finally did.
- [39:42]
A
Or yeah, yeah, that's awesome. I do, like, I'm so glad it's working well for you. Back when I used to do senior galleries, I would just give them and then they had to make their choices. It was like pulling teeth, getting people to respond. And maybe it's because there were, you know, there's a teenager involved and it's the teen and coordinating with the mom or the dad or, you know, whatever. And there can be a lot to that. But maybe something to consider, if you're listening, is to put a time, a time limit on that. Like you have, you know, a week or 10 days or something to make these choices. If they do decide for you to just send them the gallery, that way it's not, you're not chasing them. Because I remember what that felt like and it was not fun. It's like, hello, I need to get paid here. Like, I did all this work. That's why I ended up switching to doing the digital viewing only and doing it that way. But anyway, that's just something to consider is to putting a timeline on it so people know I have this deadline and you can send a follow up. Like, okay, you have two more days to choose your photos. Make sure you let me know that sort of thing.
- [40:53]
B
So what happens if you don't choose by that time?
- [40:59]
A
I don't know. I mean, I guess you could say maybe there's an extra fee or. I think most people are probably pretty respectful if you tell them there's a timeline up front. I think it would probably be a one off that would not respond to that. Yeah, but yeah, I mean, it's possible that they still don't do it, but I think most people are probably pretty respectful to stay within that time limit.
- [41:28]
B
That's true.
- [41:29]
A
But yeah. All right, this is awesome. It sounds like you have your process down and it's so great. It's only been a year and a half and you already have this much success. Like, very, very cool.
- [41:41]
B
I mean, I am still at the point where I start off every month at zero and then things trickle in and so I would love to be more booked out further. So that's the piece that I'm working on.
- [41:54]
A
I mean, I have a feeling that'll probably happen, you know, as time goes on. It's only been a year and a half. Like that is. That's pretty remarkable. I will say too, though, it's interesting with branding because, I mean, back when I was doing. Because I'm only doing a couple shoots a month now, but back when I was doing like, you know, 10 to 10 to 12, 8 to 12amonth, I was probably booked out two months in advance, I would say, but that took a little while to get to that point. It's not like weddings where you're booked out so far in advance. It's really not. It's something that I remember when I switched from weddings to personal brandings. I really had to wrap my brain around having an empty calendar and looking at it like, oh, my gosh. But I have a feeling, Elle, that it's not gonna take very long. If you keep doing what you're doing and providing this amazing service and keep in person networking, I have a feeling it's gonna be there in no time.
- [42:51]
B
Thank you. I hope so.
- [42:53]
A
Yeah. I mean, your photos are beautiful. You're making a name for yourself. You're really putting yourself out there. You've got the 40 over 40 campaign marketing as well. I mean, you're doing a lot to get people in and referrals can take time too. Have you ever had someone say they're interested in a shoot and then you reach out and it's either crickets or they're just not ready for whatever reason?
- [43:14]
B
Yeah.
- [43:14]
A
There were times when people would say they were interested in a shoot and not do it for one, two, maybe even three years. Three years later. Like, sometimes it can take a while.
- [43:23]
B
Yeah.
- [43:25]
A
But just remember that if. If someone, you know, if they say no, it might just mean not yet.
- [43:32]
B
Yeah.
- [43:33]
A
Yeah. So keep doing what you're doing, keeping yourself, putting yourself out there. Yeah. Pretty awesome. Very cool.
- [43:42]
B
Yeah. Thank you.
- [43:44]
A
All right, and one last question, just about your studio, because did you start by shooting in your home or did you get a studio right away?
- [43:51]
B
So I tried to have like a portable setup in my home, but I would have to. I have an open floor plan, so my kitchen and living room are. Everything is open. So I'd have to clean the whole house every time someone wanted to come over.
- [44:01]
A
I remember that. Yes.
- [44:02]
B
Not working. So I started renting a couple studios in the area. And after a few shoots a month, I was like, you know what? I would love to have my own Space. And it was right after I had been in business for one year that it just really got in my head. I need my own space. And so I found a commercial realtor and within four months, she made it happen. I had my keys and it took about another three months to renovate.
- [44:27]
A
Wow.
- [44:28]
B
And it's been amazing.
- [44:30]
A
Are you renting it or do you own it?
- [44:32]
B
I'm leasing it for five years.
- [44:34]
A
Oh, you're leasing. Okay. All right, Very cool. Very cool. All right, well, thank you. Thank you so much for sharing all of this. I do have four questions that I always ask at the end of each episode though, if you're willing to answer those questions. All right, the first one is what is something you can't live without during a photo shoot?
- [44:53]
B
I would say I just really like having my studio lights. I think it's my comfort space.
- [45:01]
A
What lights do you shoot with?
- [45:02]
B
I shoot with godox right now. 400 and 600.
- [45:06]
A
Nice. Awesome.
- [45:07]
B
But having those modifiers, those big modifiers were like a game changer.
- [45:11]
A
What shape do you use?
- [45:13]
B
I have like a six foot umbrella.
- [45:16]
A
Okay.
- [45:16]
B
And a couple like lantern ones and yeah, a few different shapes.
- [45:21]
A
Okay, awesome. All right, number two is how do you spend your time when you're not working?
- [45:28]
B
When I'm not working, I try to spend my time with my kids. And so they're very young, still. Seven, six and three.
- [45:37]
A
Oh, yeah. I'm in that boat too. Mine are seven and nine.
- [45:40]
B
Oh, wow. Yeah. And so I feel like, especially at this stage of their life, they need their mom and they need more of my presence. And it was really easy at first to just be editing while I'm home watching them.
- [45:51]
A
Totally. Yeah.
- [45:52]
B
Yeah. And so now I'm trying to keep the editing away from them. And when I'm with them, they're not watching me on my laptop or my phone and just engage with them more. And so that's what my focus has been recently.
- [46:02]
A
Yeah, I love that. It's hard. It's hard. There are times when, especially like on. On a day where if they don't have school one day or something. I know yours are a little bit younger, but. Well, at least your 3 year old. But if my husband's home with them and it's a work day for me and I'm in my bedroom editing or doing whatever I need to do and they come busting in and I'm like, dudes, you gotta pretend like I'm not here. It's like you feel so pretty bad.
- [46:26]
B
Yeah, for sure.
- [46:28]
A
But I'm. And I try to explain to them like, you could, you could have parents who have these office jobs where we're literally gone from seven in the morning until five at night every day, you know, so it's hard to. I don't know. It's a balance always.
- [46:42]
B
Yeah, for sure.
- [46:43]
A
Okay, number three is, what is a photography specific product that you recommend to people? I know you said the Godox lights, but is there anything else that you. It's like a must have for you as a product.
- [46:54]
B
Can I just say my camera? Because I really love it and I depend on it and I wouldn't be the photographer I am without it. I think.
- [47:03]
A
Yeah, if that's. Yeah. I mean. And the R6 is an amazing camera, that's for sure.
- [47:08]
B
Yeah, I was cheap.
- [47:11]
A
I said R5. R5. I said. Wait, I meant to say R5 for you. You have the R5, right?
- [47:15]
B
Yes, yes.
- [47:16]
A
Okay. Yeah, I have the R6. I cheaped out and did bought the cheaper one. But it's amazing. Like, it's such an amazing camera.
- [47:24]
B
Yeah.
- [47:25]
A
All right, Number four is, what would you tell people who are just starting out?
- [47:31]
B
I would say learn as much as you can and put it into practice and don't be afraid of using some money. Yeah, I feel like putting the investment towards things makes some things quicker, like the coaching and different stuff like that and just the investment into gear. You don't want to become like. What is that word for like, you just care about buying more. More gear.
- [47:57]
A
Like a gear head or a techie.
- [47:59]
B
Yeah, something like that.
- [48:01]
A
Yeah.
- [48:02]
B
But I feel like you just need to set yourself up with the basics and just go.
- [48:07]
A
Yeah, it's true. I mean, the, the lens that I. My 85, I have the Canon 85 1.8 that I paid $499 dollars for like 12 years ago. And I still use. I still use that lens. I never upgraded to the L series. I was like, I don't need it. Why do I need it? Like. And I know there are people out there who just love specific gear and that's fine too. But for me, I would rather go on vacation.
- [48:30]
B
Yeah.
- [48:33]
A
So. But yeah, you don't need, you don't need all the best gear. It's. I mean, it's helpful to have, you know, certain things, but.
- [48:41]
B
Yeah.
- [48:42]
A
All right, awesome. Where can people find you online? Elle.
- [48:45]
B
My Instagram is L yun Photo E L L E Y E O N photo and my website is elyounphotography.com awesome.
- [48:55]
A
Sweet. Well, thank you again. I appreciate this. This is great. And you'll have to keep us posted in the personal or in the personal you'll have to keep us posted in the Portrait System Facebook group about how you're doing. And yeah, this has been awesome.
- [49:09]
B
Thank you so much. Thank you so much Nikki.
- [49:11]
A
Bye bye. Thank you so much for listening to the Portrait System podcast. Your 5 star reviews really help us to continue what we do. So if you like listening, would you mind giving us a review wherever you listen? I also encourage you to head over to soubrise education.com where you can find all of the education you need to be a successful photographer. There are over 1000 on demand education educational videos on things like posing, lighting, styling, retouching, shooting, marketing, sales, business and self value. There's also the 90 day startup challenge plus so many downloads showing hundreds of different poses. We have to do checklists for your business, lighting PDFs. I mean truly everything to help make you a better photographer and to make you more money. Once Again, that's Sue briceducation.com.