How to Charge Higher Prices in a Small Town with Jessica Malone (Re-Release)

Summary

Podcast Summary: "How to Charge Higher Prices in a Small Town with Jessica Malone"

Podcast Information:

• Title: The Portrait System Podcast
• Host: Nikki Klosser
• Guest: Jessica Malone
• Release Date: February 5, 2025

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Introduction

In this re-released episode of The Portrait System Podcast, host Nikki Klosser welcomes Jessica Malone, a successful portrait photographer operating in Galpolis, Ohio. Jessica shares her journey from struggling with low pricing in a small town to achieving remarkable business success by redefining her pricing strategies and leveraging effective marketing techniques inspired by the Sue Bryce Education model.

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Jessica Malone’s Photography Journey

Accidental Start and Early Challenges

Jessica Malone began her photography career quite by accident during her senior year in college. Opting out of a folk dance elective, she chose digital photography instead, despite having minimal experience. Her first client was a wedding that she undertook almost unprepared, charging $100 as a donation for an engagement session. This initial experience, though daunting, marked the beginning of her professional journey.

"[07:10] Jessica Malone: I got started in photography by pure accident... I offered an engagement session as a trial run, and I didn't know how to charge anything. I did their engagement session as a donation, and they gave me $100."

Experiencing Burnout

Early on, Jessica embraced the "shoot and burn" pricing model, taking on as many sessions as possible to make ends meet while juggling college and parenthood. This approach led to burnout as she continually lowered her prices to compete, ultimately charging as little as $50 per session.

"[09:46] Jessica Malone: I was working my way through college. I had my son, so I was trying to take care of a child, too. And I was just doing anything and everything and taking as many sessions as I could possibly take because they were like these shoot and burn prices."

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Overcoming Burnout with Sue Bryce Education

Shifting Mindset and Embracing Education

In 2016, Jessica discovered the Super Ice Education platform. After a year of consuming educational content, she decided to commit fully to the Sue Bryce business model. This pivotal change helped her rebuild her self-value and restructure her pricing strategy, leading to her best year in 2020 despite operating in a small town and amidst a pandemic.

"[13:13] Jessica Malone: I found the education and it was like, I either have to give this a real try with a real business model that's really gonna work and I can make a livable income, or I just have to quit this entirely."

Improving Self-Value

Jessica realized that her self-worth was directly impacting her pricing. By valuing her work appropriately and investing in her skills, she was able to raise her prices without losing clients.

"[11:05] Nikki Klosser: ...self value is such a direct reflection of what we're selling and how much we're charging, and it is everything."

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Effective Marketing in a Small Town

Leveraging Uniqueness

Operating in a small town with a modest population, Jessica recognized that being the only photographer offering high-end portrait services made her stand out. She capitalized on this uniqueness by positioning her premium pricing as a mark of quality, making her the talk of the town.

"[29:17] Jessica Malone: ...you're the only person doing anything like this. And if you are shocking people with your prices, they're going to remember you."

The 40 Over 40 Project

A significant contributor to Jessica’s success was her participation in the 40 Over 40 project. Launching this campaign during a challenging year, she saw it spread organically through word of mouth, leading to a surge in clients and ultimately grossing over $100,000 in 2020.

"[27:11] Jessica Malone: ...the majority of my business last year was from the 40 Over 40 project."

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Strategic Pricing Models

Package-Based Pricing

Jessica employs a tiered pricing system, offering clients distinct packages (small, medium, large) instead of a la carte options. This approach encourages clients to purchase more comprehensive packages, often leading to higher overall sales.

"[25:35] Jessica Malone: No one ever wants just one. Trust me, you're gonna want more."

Avoiding A La Carte Pitfalls

By not offering a la carte pricing, Jessica maintains control over her revenue streams, preventing clients from limiting their purchases to minimal options. She believes clients naturally opt for larger packages once they see the value in the offerings.

"[25:35] Nikki Klosser: ...if you offer a la carte, you can see the value of the packages."

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Client Interaction and Immediate Reveals

Building Trust Through Immediate Feedback

Jessica utilizes immediate reveals post-session, allowing clients to see their photos while their confidence is high. This technique helps in upselling and ensures clients are satisfied with their selections, fostering trust and repeat business.

"[38:31] Jessica Malone: Immediate reveal, just after their session... They sit on my couch and relax, and I go through and... they get narrowed down to the images they can't live without."

Balancing Professionalism with Client Preferences

While immediate reveals are effective, Jessica acknowledges the need to handle certain situations delicately, especially in boudoir photography where clients are more conscious about their appearance.

"[40:21] Jessica Malone: I have learned some hard lessons on that... it was definitely because I thought she was so beautiful... I don’t wanna say that."

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Advice for Aspiring Photographers

Emphasizing Mindset

Both Jessica and Nikki stress the importance of a strong, positive mindset. They argue that believing in one's value is crucial for pricing appropriately and achieving business success.

"[37:41] Jessica Malone: My biggest advice to photographers starting out is to be aware of how powerful your mindset is, because that will make or break things for you."

Continuous Learning and Adaptation

Jessica encourages photographers to keep learning and adapting without falling into the trap of analysis paralysis. Taking actionable steps and trusting in their skills are key components of her advice.

"[37:41] Jessica Malone: As long as you have the right mindset, literally nothing can stop you."

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Closing Remarks

Favorite Tools and Inspirational Quotes

• Essential Tool: Jessica emphasizes the importance of the camera and the photographer behind it as the most vital tools.

  "[47:15] Jessica Malone: ...the camera and you. That's all you need."

• Inspirational Quote: She shares a Buddhist-inspired quote that underscores the power of mindset: "What you think you become, what you feel you attract and what you imagine, you create."

  "[49:26] Jessica Malone: ...what you think you become, what you feel you attract and what you imagine, you create."

Personal Life and Hobbies

Outside of photography, Jessica enjoys farming, raising chickens, gardening, and spending quality time with her family, balancing her professional and personal life seamlessly.

"[48:49] Jessica Malone: ...chasing chickens or children on my farm."

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Conclusion

Jessica Malone's story is a testament to the power of mindset, strategic pricing, and effective marketing, even in challenging environments like a small town. By valuing her work appropriately and leveraging her unique position in the market, Jessica has built a thriving portrait photography business. Her insights provide invaluable lessons for photographers aiming to elevate their pricing and grow their businesses sustainably.

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Notable Quotes:

• "[07:10] Jessica Malone: I offered an engagement session as a trial run, and I didn't know how to charge anything."
• "[29:17] Jessica Malone: ...you're the only person doing anything like this. And if you are shocking people with your prices, they're going to remember you."
• "[37:41] Jessica Malone: ...be aware of how powerful your mindset is, because that will make or break things for you."
• "[49:26] Jessica Malone: ...what you think you become, what you feel you attract and what you imagine, you create."

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This episode highlights Jessica Malone's transformative journey in the photography business, offering listeners practical strategies and profound insights into pricing, marketing, and personal growth within the industry.

Transcript

[Nikki Klosser]

Hey there, it's Nikki Klosser and I want to let you know about an awesome free giveaway for people on our email list. If you haven't already, click the link in our podcast description or go to theportraitsystem.com signup to get on the list. If you sign up, you'll get a free posing 101 PDF to jumpstart things. It's an epic PDF so you'll definitely want to get this. Also, just by being in our email community, you'll get deals, sales and information about any of our upcoming events and activities. So head over to theportraitsystem.com signup and sign up. Today you're listening to the Portrait System podcast.

[Jessica Malone]

Those people in small town saying that they can't make it work, they're actually overlooking a really cool thing which is you're the only person doing anything like this and if you are shocking people with your prices, they're going to remember you. You are going to be the topic of conversation and that's marketing.

[Nikki Klosser]

Welcome to the Portrait System Podcast. I'm your host Nikki Klosser and this show is here to help you succeed in the world of photography and business. To you learn to become financially free, doing what you love and so much more. With over 1 million downloads, countless photographers have taken what they've learned from both our episodes and from theportraitsystem.com and they have grown their businesses, quit their day jobs and are designing a life of their dreams. We keep it real and share stories.

[Jessica Malone]

About the ups and downs that come.

[Nikki Klosser]

With running a photography business. You'll hear real life stories of how other photographers run their business and you'll learn actionable steps that you can take to reach your own goals. Thank you so much for being here and let's get started. Today's guest is Jessica Malone and she basically shatters some of the beliefs people have about why they can't charge industry standard pricing where they live. Jessica lives in a super small town an hour drive from any larger city. She's new to her area and there are tons of other photographers where she lives, even though it's a small population of people. Despite all of this and a pandemic, Jessica has had her best year yet in 2020. Jessica attributes much of her success to making a big shift in her own belief system. She tells us all about this during her interview and she also shares about how she markets to potential clients and how she used being like the talk of the town to her advantage. I really love chatting with Jessica. And I hope so much that you'll be really inspired and also challenge your own beliefs after listening to her. Okay, let's start the show. Hey, Jessica, how are you?

[Jessica Malone]

Hi, Nikki. I'm doing great. How are you?

[Nikki Klosser]

I'm good. Welcome to the portrait system. Thank you for being here.

[Jessica Malone]

Thank you for having me. This is amazing.

[Nikki Klosser]

Hey, Jessica, where are you located?

[Jessica Malone]

I am located in Galpolis, Ohio, which is southeastern Ohio, right by the river.

[Nikki Klosser]

Okay, so we're not too far. I'm right in south. South Michigan, kind of right in the middle. Yeah, we're not far at all. Awesome.

[Jessica Malone]

Yeah. Neighbors.

[Nikki Klosser]

Okay, so before we talk about your whole story and everything, will you give people just kind of a general picture of what you. You know, what sort of genre do you shoot? And do you have a studio you do outdoors? Just kind of give people a little overview.

[Jessica Malone]

So I do have a studio. I mostly shoot portrait, boudoir, and personal branding right now. I do some outdoor sessions, but since I've had a studio space, I've tried to avoid that if all possible. I like my air conditioning and heat, so I do shoot outdoors sometimes, but mostly in the studio.

[Nikki Klosser]

Okay, cool. And then are you focusing on families or just one specific woman, or how does that work?

[Jessica Malone]

Well, I do families. I focus mostly on just one woman usually. A lot of my clients are branding clients. A lot of times we mix branding with boudoir, so it's mostly one woman. Now, they might bring their families in at the end, but I would say that's the bulk of my clients.

[Nikki Klosser]

Okay, okay. For some reason, I thought you photographed more families, but. Okay, that's good to know. So a little bit of. A little bit of everything.

[Jessica Malone]

I mean, I do. Yeah, I do, but I. It. That usually seems to come in, like, afterwards. Like, I get my client as, you know, for branding or headshots or food or for the 40. 40, 40 over 40 campaign. And then they bring their families in. So.

[Nikki Klosser]

Okay, so I kind of want to talk about that a little bit. Cause that's a good selling strategy.

[Jessica Malone]

Oh, my gosh.

[Nikki Klosser]

To say, like, okay, yeah, like, you come in, and then at the end, once you've done your hair and makeup and had your pampering, have your partner or whomever bring your kids in. And so tell me, how do you do that? How do you orchestrate that?

[Jessica Malone]

Exactly? Just how you said. Like, I just pitch it to them. They come in, and they might be interested in the 40 over 40 project or a headshot or, you know, and I'm like, hey, we Include, you know, hair and makeup. We've got wardrobe. The majority of the session can be, like, all about you. But at the end, if you want to bring your kids, your partner, whoever, we can have about 30, 45 minutes at the end and do something different. And they're usually like, oh, my gosh, I never even thought of that. We do need a family photo, and it just kind of works out that way. So almost everybody that I bring that up to takes me up on it.

[Nikki Klosser]

Yeah, I love that. I love that. And it's such a smart strategy because in the end, they're probably not gonna say no to those photos of the family.

[Jessica Malone]

Exactly.

[Nikki Klosser]

Yeah. And if you do a great job and you mix it up, like some of just the kids, some with mom and kids, some with, you know, mom and husband or partner or whomever, like, that adds up.

[Jessica Malone]

Oh, for sure.

[Nikki Klosser]

I find that when I do that, they buy the biggest package because they can't say no to all these photos.

[Jessica Malone]

Yeah. And I also add at the end of a session, I always say, okay, let's do something just for fun. And I might throw something a little crazier on them, like birdcage, hoop skirt or something. Just fun. And it's so surprising to me how many people that I would have never thought, like, they would have never said yes to a creative session. And then they see these just for fun at the end, and they buy them almost every time, and almost every time it's wall art, and they're just like, I can't believe it. You know? And so I was like, sneak it in on them. And I'm like, this is just for me. Like, it's just for my own fun. And then they love it, so.

[Nikki Klosser]

Oh, this is so good, Jessica. So good. And it's funny you say that because it does feel like if you were to say to a client, like, hey, I have this really cool hoop skirt, they would be like, no. Like, most probably like, no. But once they're there and they're having so much fun and they're into it and it's like, they'll do anything we want.

[Jessica Malone]

Yeah. They're not going to tell you no. Especially, like, towards the end where they're feeling more comfortable, you've, you know, guided them and they're nerves are down, you know, and they're having a lot of fun. Yeah. They just go with it. And it always makes just these amazing shots.

[Nikki Klosser]

Yeah. Yeah, for sure. I really love your work. It's very beautiful. I saw a post of yours in the Super Ice Education, the members Facebook group. And you were just talking about how you started as a. As a shoot and burn, and you really burned out. But then in 2020, you had your best year ever. And so I kind of was like, oh, this is interesting. And I went to Instagram, and I was, like, looking at your work, and I was like, wow, okay, this is really good. And not that I didn't expect it to be good, but you really blew me away. So I'm curious if you can just kind of take us back, because I think a lot of people start where you started with. I started there, too, with the shoot and burn. Like, how am I ever gonna sustain this? So tell me a little bit about where you started.

[Jessica Malone]

Oh, gosh. Okay. So I got started in photography by pure accident. I was graduating college, and I needed one more elective, and it was between folk dance or digital photography. And so I am not folk dancing. So I took digital photography. And I did have a history with photography before my dad was a photographer, and I grew up looking, you know, at his albums. And that's one way I got to know him through what he photographed. But my senior year, I took digital photography just to graduate. I didn't think I would ever need to know anything, so I just, you know, just pass me so I can graduate. That's all I need. And, yeah, I had this little camera. It was like a basic Nikon, and I would take pictures of my garden and my dogs. And a couple contacted me and said, will you shoot our wedding? And I was like, your wedding is a big deal, and I don't think I'm qualified. And they said, no, let's do it. We think you can do this. And we love your work, which. I'm like, it's flowers and dogs, but okay. And I offered an engagement session as, like, a trial run, and I didn't know how to charge anything. I had never even dreamed of someone paying me to take their picture. And I did their engagement session as a donation, and they gave me $100. And they were like, raise your prices. And I did this huge wedding. It's totally unprepared. If I would have known what I know now, I would have been terrified and probably never taken the job. But, yeah, I did this whole wedding, and I actually did a good job. I still look back at some of those pictures like, wow, I can't believe I shot that. I had no idea what I was doing. And after that, a family got ahold of me, and they were like, do you shoot families? And I'M like, I guess I do. And so I Googled how much for a family shoot? And somebody said, $500 is what I saw on Google. So I said, okay, $500 for your shoot and a picture, a wall print, and it just kind of went from there. Like, people would be like, oh, do you do seniors? Do you do this? And I'm like, I do now. And that's how I got through college and then grad school and. Yeah. And so you can imagine taking all of these jobs, whatever, Whoever offered me money, I'm like, all right, this is my genre now. I got burned out really quick, but I didn't understand. I wasn't in the creative field long enough to understand burnout. And so, yeah, I probably quit a few times and kept coming back to it.

[Nikki Klosser]

Let's talk a little bit about that. What did that mean to you at the time? Burnout?

[Jessica Malone]

Well, so I was working my way through college. I had my son, so I was trying to take care of a child, too. And I was just doing anything and everything and taking as many sessions as I could possibly take because they were like these shoot and burn prices. And what's funny is, when I first started that first family session, I did, and I said $500, like, I had no problem selling it. They were like, okay. But the more I got into photography and the longer I did it, the more I realized how much improvement I needed. I didn't know enough to know how bad I was. My prices started to go down. So then I was charging, like, $50 in the park, and I was having people, you know, like, oh, well, so and so's doing it for cheaper. So I was running into that, and it was all me. And I see that now, but that's really what led to that burnout. It was like, oh, I see these other photographers doing this amazing work, and this is what mine looks. Looks like. I can't believe. You know. And, you know that downward mental spiral that you can get into.

[Nikki Klosser]

Totally.

[Jessica Malone]

And just that combined with like, the level I was needing to shoot to even, like, survive, you know, to pay bills or whatever, was just. It just would get too much. And so, yeah, I would quit. And then I'd be like, you know.

[Nikki Klosser]

Yeah, this is really interesting because we talk about that a lot. I mean, sue, that's like the backbone of what she teaches is that self value, you know, in addition to. Oh, yeah, that's everything in lighting. And of course, yeah, of course you have to be a good photographer and know what you're doing. But so much of it is like, you can have the best portfolio in the world, but if you don't value it and value what you do, you can't charge shit. And so hearing you say that when you didn't know what you didn't know, you were fine with charging $500. But once you. It's like, once our self value is such a direct reflection of what we're selling and how much we're charging, and it is everything. And you're such a good example of that.

[Jessica Malone]

Oh, absolutely.

[Nikki Klosser]

That, like, self value went down and prices went down.

[Jessica Malone]

Exactly. And the reaction I was getting from my clients changed as well. Like before, they're like, oh, my gosh. Yeah, take my money. You know, And I had never shot a family before, literally. And then after, I mean, I had experience under my belt. I had, you know, I had been in a couple of magazines, but I was realizing how much it could be improved and all the things that I didn't do. And I was looking at everything I wasn't. And then my clients were reflecting that back to me. They were like, you're not even worth the $50 for 100 edited images on a disk that we have full rights to. And that was all me. That wasn't them. So, yeah, it wasn't until I knew how I was feeling. And I think, I can't possibly do this for the rest of my life. And I was at this point where, you know, I need to get serious. I need to make a change. Like, it was either I had found super ice education, and I had watched for about a year, like, on the sidelines, not like, there's no way I could ever make this happen. And it just got to a point. It's either I need to actually try and give it a legitimate, authentic try, or I need to go get my PhD or something. Because at the time I was teaching in school, it's weird. Cause photography's always been this, like, side hustle. While I was getting, you know, my quote unquote, big girl job, I went to graduate school twice for degrees that I never have used.

[Nikki Klosser]

Isn't that funny?

[Jessica Malone]

And the whole time, photography was actually the only thing that was ever making me money. And it took me years to be like, hey, let's do this right. And so that's really where I was like, I found the education and it was like, I either have to give this a real try with a real business model that's really gonna work and I can make a livable income, or I just have to quit this entirely because I just can't do this anymore.

[Nikki Klosser]

You know, it sounds like you had, like, analysis paralysis. And a lot of people go through that where they think, like, oh, well, I'll just keep learning and keep learning, and whether that's go back to school or watch courses or pay a ton of money for courses or watch YouTube videos or practice or whatever, but don't actually do it because they just are paralyzed to take action. Like, do you feel like maybe that's the stage you are in?

[Jessica Malone]

Definitely. But also at the same time, on top of that, you know, I had my child and I had, like, everything I was either overqualified for or I was under qualified for. So on top of that pressure or on top of that analysis paralysis, like, realizing how much I have to do and how much there is to learn, and oh, my gosh, look what they're doing and what they're doing. I also had this need, like, you have to, like, take care of a child and all the responsibility that comes with being a parent. And, you know, so I had to keep selling at the same time, knowing, like, oh, I hate this, and I really don't like what I'm doing, and I don't think this is good enough. And it was a really hard place, like, mentally and emotionally. It was just a very hard place to be in.

[Nikki Klosser]

Yeah. When was this?

[Jessica Malone]

This was. Well, that actually went on for a few years. This was probably like the 2014-2016 era. Okay. Yeah. So then 2016, I found the super ice education, and I started watching all the videos and I'm like, you know, it was such a different genre in a way. Cause I didn't have a studio. I knew nothing about strobe lights, or I was like, you know, throw me in a field somewhere and I'll shoot, like, you know, just your typical outdoor only shoot at the golden hour, you know, photographer. So I was very much intimidated by, like, that studio look, that portrait look. But I knew I loved it, and it was very beautiful. And it did remind me of all those photos, like, I looked at that my dad took and just the old film days. And I think that's what really drew me to it. And so I sat for a year and watched that and just absorbed as much as I could. And then I finally was like, you know, you gotta do this. You gotta take the leap. And I did. And it just snowballed from there, and it was like the best thing I could have ever done.

[Nikki Klosser]

Yeah. You know, just two things there. I remember feeling the same way. I Was, okay. So when I learned about sue, and I was like, I wanna do this, but I'm gonna do seniors outside. Cause in studio is not my thing. Like, I was very much. I was very similar. And then once I learned how much easier to me it is in studio, like you mentioned before, air conditioning, heat, like the controlled environment to me became so much more appealing than fighting with other people out in the fields. Not fighting. Yeah, I'm not a fighter. I'm a lover. But you know what I mean?

[Jessica Malone]

Like, right.

[Nikki Klosser]

The golden hour and having to do it at dinner time, as opposed to where I could shoot during the day when I just felt like it or, you know. But I also want to say that this business model really truly does work for people who are shooting in golden hour in a field. Like, I just want to put that out. And I know you know that. But just for people listening, I want people to know that this business model in this education works for all types of portraits. It's not just in studio, because I know, like, that's 99.9% of the time what sue shoots. So that's what she shows.

[Jessica Malone]

Right.

[Nikki Klosser]

But we have so many people who make this totally work outside.

[Jessica Malone]

Yeah. And, you know, the first time I made it work outside, I was actually kind of shocked because I was in that mindset that was me like, oh, well, this isn't, you know, this isn't the studio. I don't have the lights. I don't have, you know, that like, vibe that you can get, that really, like, level of drama, you know? And the first shoot that I did solely outside, that reminded me back in the $50 in the park days. And then it was like one of my bigger sales. They bought my highest package and I was just like, okay, wow. It was a pleasant surprise. And since then, I've done a bunch of outdoor only shoots and carry the same sales average. Just the same as if it was inside.

[Nikki Klosser]

Yep, yep, same. Cause my seniors, we do both indoor and outdoor. And yeah, it's the same. And for the record, I still do not shoot with strobes. I still am like, window with my sheer curtain and some, like, banged up white reflector. Like, that's my. So, like, it really does not need to be an intimidating process to think about shooting in studio. Do you. Do you use strobes? What kind of lights you use?

[Jessica Malone]

I do. I have two strobes in the studio that I use for most of my sessions, most of the time. And I have the Godox 80 to 200, I think.

[Nikki Klosser]

Nice. Very Cool.

[Jessica Malone]

And a couple of different modifiers. But I have a single window in my studio, and it's not even a full window. I'm jealous of all you guys with your floor to ceiling windows or mine's like, little.

[Nikki Klosser]

That makes a difference.

[Jessica Malone]

Yeah, it's like two and a half foot, like, tall, and then about four foot wide. You know, it's funny, I spent all the time on learning strobes and doing all this and thinking like, oh, this is the look. And then actually here, lately, the past several shoots I've done, I've done majority just window only with a V flat. And it's beautiful. And I'm like, oh, I forgot how much I love just this window. It's beautiful. So I've been doing more window just because I had been strobe only for so long. But I agree, both are beautiful. And it doesn't have to be complicated at all.

[Nikki Klosser]

Yeah, absolutely. It's funny, I was in Portland recently doing a photo shoot, and I was in Jerina's studio. I don't know if you know Jerina, she was episode 61. But in her big studio, she has these huge windows. But she always shoots with strobes. Always. And so she had all the windows covered up. And I'm like, oh, my gosh, all.

[Jessica Malone]

These windows are covered up.

[Nikki Klosser]

Like, what's happening? And then I, you know, opened the windows and it's like I. It's like suddenly I forgot what it's like to shoot in the Pacific Northwest where when it gets dark in the middle of the day, it is dark. And all of a sudden it went dark. Like, it went from sunny to, like, pouring rain. And I'm like, oh, yeah, what am I gonna do? So she has this huge, constant light. It's, like, bigger than me. I don't even know how big it is. I swear it was like nine feet around. Probably eight feet. I think that's standard, right? The eight feet. Huge. October.

[Jessica Malone]

Yeah.

[Nikki Klosser]

Big thing. Anyway, I figured out how to turn. I'm staring at it thinking, oh, God, what am I gonna do right now? So I turned it on, and it was beautiful. All of a sudden, I had this constant light, and I was like, gosh, I resist this stuff when it's just so easy. And it just kind of mimicked what I do with natural light. And I moved on. Like, it wasn't strobe. I know strobe has kind of a different look, but anyways, it just. It just goes to show, like, you can do what you do in any situation as long as you learn how.

[Jessica Malone]

Oh, definitely. I've been looking at the constants. I think that would be. That's, like, probably my next addition, lighting wise. But when I first started in the studio and I only had one light, I was trying to do, like, that signature light look with, you know, the fill light. And I. I didn't have a second light, but I had installed a makeup stand. And, you know, I did the vanity lights around the mirror, and I had daylight LEDs, and they're pretty bright, and my studio is pretty small. I literally took a backdrop stand with a shower curtain liner and turned on my vanity lights and just raised the backdrop as high as I could and put that, like, you know, panel. It was like a diffusion panel, the shower curtain liner. And then I used that as a fill and then brought in the one. And so I got this really beautiful look. And people are like, oh, what lighting do you use? I'm like, those are light bulbs from my makeup stand. Because I was in a pinch, and I was trying to make this work, and I didn't want the client to see me sweat. And I'm like, oh, yeah, I do this all the time. This is normal in our industry.

[Nikki Klosser]

Shower curtain. Totally. Totally normal.

[Jessica Malone]

Shower curtain in front of your light bulbs. Yeah. But it worked. And I would think that it's the same as that constant light. And so I definitely would like to get the official, you know, more official product.

[Nikki Klosser]

Yeah, but like you said, I mean, hacking your way through it, I mean, that's just. It's okay. It's okay to do that until you're ready to have, you know, the more expensive equipment or whatever. But, you know, I want to talk a little bit about pricing, because you mentioned that recently you did an outdoor shoot, and they bought your highest package. So I'm wondering if you can tell us a little bit about how you do your pricing.

[Jessica Malone]

Well, my session fee is 550, and that includes all the styling, wardrobe, hair, makeup, and the shoot. My prints after that are 350 each. They go up from there with wall art. And then I do the folio box collections, and those are 6, 12 and 25 for 2000. Three thousand and four.

[Nikki Klosser]

Nice. Okay, let's talk a little bit about that, because for people out there who maybe don't know what the folio box is. Can you tell us about that?

[Jessica Malone]

Oh, sure. So I do the folio boxes from graphy. I absolutely love them. I have the reveal box with the clear top.

[Nikki Klosser]

That's the one I like too.

[Jessica Malone]

Yeah. And it's so Easy, like with the clients, because I'm like, you can display your pictures, you can rotate them. They can sit on a coffee table. They're very versatile. But I actually let them choose a box or an album. I did away with the box being included with the lowest package of six, just because I order my boxes ahead of time in bulk. And, you know, there are 25 print boxes. Six prints just look so. So if I can't upsell them more, you know, they just get a regular box. And the same with albums. So if you're at the middle collection or higher, you can pick between the box or an album.

[Nikki Klosser]

But.

[Jessica Malone]

So I just do the standard. Yeah. Folio boxes, and they're great. I do the 8 by 10 size. I do the smaller one. I really love them. And the clients do, too.

[Nikki Klosser]

Yeah, yeah. That's what I always did, too. And the real reveal box has the clear, so it almost resembles a picture frame. So if you're out there and you don't know what that is.

[Jessica Malone]

Exactly.

[Nikki Klosser]

And that's the kind of cool thing is, like, if you get an album, your cover is your cover. Whereas with these, you can switch out which one's on top and you can take the matted prints out and display them somewhere else. Like, they're just more versatile.

[Jessica Malone]

Yeah, it really is, because you can display it, like, on a coffee table or nightstand the same way you would an album. And if you have guests or family come over and they want to look at your images, they can take them out and even pass them around instead of, like one person holding the album. Or it can be displayed upright, like, almost like a shadow box frame. And it, again, can. You can rotate the. Who gets the COVID Yeah. And it's really cool. And you can always add to them too, so.

[Nikki Klosser]

Yep, yep, yep. That's awesome. Okay, so you've got the high, medium, low sort of package, like, small, medium large situation going. So a lot of people will say, like, okay, so if I were to come in, I'm speaking as photographer. So if a client comes in, they just want one photo. They pay your $500 session fee. They don't get any photos for that, but they get the hair and makeup and everything. And then if they want one photo, they pay 350 and they're out the door.

[Jessica Malone]

Yes.

[Nikki Klosser]

Okay, so how does that happen often? Or. And I'm only saying this because sometimes there's kind of like a debate between, like, oh, should I do a la carte, or should I do package only? Like, I do package only. That's just how I do it. And some people do a la carte because if you offer the a la carte, you can see the value of the packages because you can see that, you know, if you buy 10 photos, it's not going to be 350 per image. It's going to be 200 per image or 150 per image or whatever it is. And then also there's no, like, ceiling there. Like, someone could buy, you know, they could say, Well, I want 40 images. And you could say, well, at a la carte, it's 350 per image. However, if you want 40, I could do XYZ price or whatever. So I guess what I'm saying is I offer just the small, medium, large, which works very well for me. And I very rarely sell the smallest package. But the clients are seeing as, like, the ceiling is that $2,400. So it's not too often that people spend more than that. They do on occasion, but. Or like, for my personal branding, the highest is 19.95. And it's not very often that people go over that. So sometimes I wonder. But I also don't have to worry about one client coming in, spending 350 and leaving. So I'm curious. Tell me about that.

[Jessica Malone]

So, yeah, I don't ever have people just get one image. And usually when people are like, oh, well, it's 350 for just one image. And I'm like, yeah, because you're gonna want a collection like no one ever wants. Just one. Trust me, you're gonna want more. You say this, but you're gonna want more. I have thought about doing a different special for maybe headshots for people who truly just want to come in, come out, maybe strip down the hair and make like a light styling and then maybe one. One image included. I have thought about doing that for just the people who truly want, like, a headshot. Of course I'm going to try to sell them personal branding. But I think that having that higher single image price makes the packages more or the collections more appealing, even more so to me. And like you said, like, I don't want them to see a cap. And usually when I pitch it to them, I'm like, you know, you can come in and buy a single image that you know is fantastic and you're going to love for life for 350. But some people come in and they might get a folio box or an album plus the wall art for every single room in their house, and they might spend, you know, six $7,000. Like, it's just totally up to you and what you want. But you know, you're not going to decide that till you see your images. And no one just ever goes for the single one. I mean, I try to tell them that, but I don't think they believe me at first. And then they come in and, you know, they go for the package anyway.

[Nikki Klosser]

Okay, so I know in your post you had mentioned that you are homeschooling. You have a new baby.

[Jessica Malone]

Yes.

[Nikki Klosser]

You are homeschooling your nine year old. And you still managed to gross over $100,000 in 2020. So tell me a little bit about that. How did you make that work?

[Jessica Malone]

Well, the majority of my business last year was from the 40over40 project.

[Nikki Klosser]

Okay, tell us about that.

[Jessica Malone]

So, yeah, I just, I saw, you know, other people in the group running these campaigns and I really loved the idea behind it. I mean, not only were they getting these gorgeous images and having great success stories, like, I really, really loved the message behind it. And so I launched one and it, you know, last year was probably the worst year to launch anything. And I, I sat on it for a while and just, you know, and then may I was like, okay, it's now or never. I'm just gonna put it out there. And yeah, it just kind of spread like wildfire. Like they, you know, it just really spread. And the word of mouth, I didn't even market it, it just spread. And everybody was talking about, I live in a small town, it's easy for news to spread like that. And each one of those women, you know, I was upselling them on like a family session at the end or add personal branding or let's add boudoir. Every single woman, we did something a little bit different. In addition to like them setting for like a fine art portrait for the show, for the, you know, actual project. So that really was like the bulk of everything, that word of mouth. I was getting clients that I would have just never dreamed. You know, I'm a small town, we all know people here and like, I'm getting these people that I've never seen get a portrait session done. You know, maybe they're kids or something. You know, obviously I see that. But like, and it was just really cool. And it just kept getting bigger and bigger. And we have a show scheduled and there's just a lot of excitement about it. So that was just the biggest difference, business wise. Cause it was just something so different for around here. There's nobody around here doing anything like this. So I think a lot of that success was from that campaign last year.

[Nikki Klosser]

Okay, so we hear so often, but I live in a small town. I cannot charge prices that you charge in la.

[Jessica Malone]

I will argue with anybody.

[Nikki Klosser]

Jessica, I am so happy that you brought this up because this is such a block for people.

[Jessica Malone]

I live in a small town, okay? So in my proper city limits. And we are technically a city somehow, but I think there's like 10,000 people here maybe in the county. Like, there's not. It's small, it's super small. And I think I'm actually overestimating it. I looked it up at one point in time at what our population is here, but the county, you know, there might be like 10,000 people in the entire county. We are a solid hour from any bigger city in any direction. And I think our median income here is like $30,000. So it's definitely the small country town. Like, it's what everybody thinks. You couldn't do this. And I make it work every single day. It all comes back to you. Like, that is a thousand percent. It's you, right?

[Nikki Klosser]

Hey, just a quick break to tell you that since you're here listening, you have access to a really great offer for our listeners only. We have a special promo code you can use to get 50% off the cost of membership. Just go to theportraitsystem.com or click the link in the description and use the promo code PODCAST50 to get 50% off of a membership. We rarely discount membership, so this is a big deal. As I hope you already know, the membership is how I and so many guests on this podcast reached our success. And it gives you access to countless amazing videos, an awesome community, and all the tools you need to build a massively successful business. So use the code podcast50Now to join the community and to start building the business of your dreams. I'll see you there. I agree. And so in the 90 day challenge, you know, we do the 12 weeks of challenges for one for each week. And so when the pricing week started, you know, we talk about pricing and we talk about industry standard and working your way up to that point. And someone's like, but, Nikki, what about those of us who are in small towns where the average income is like $30,000 a year? Like, basically exactly what you said. And I was like, you know what? Yes, it's more of a challenge. Sure. Like, there is the fact that you don't have people making millions. I get that. However, people will spend 40k on a new SUV. They'll spend $1200 on an iPhone.

[Jessica Malone]

Exactly.

[Nikki Klosser]

It doesn't matter. People will save for what they want to buy.

[Jessica Malone]

Oh, 1,000%. Yes. Like, and I think it might have been in one of the videos, you know, like a $2,000 portrait session. This is not a luxury item. Like, this is comparable to a TV and everybody owns TVs, everybody has furniture. These are not like a six figure purchase is a big item. You know, like it's. People have iPhones, everybody has an iPhone. Like, and nobody, you know, and it's what you value. And honestly, from my experience, I've had wealthier clients for sure. But I've also had clients where I know their level of income. Like I have an idea anyway. And they will go on a payment plan and they'll come in and pay me over a span of like 6 to 10 months or something. And they are so grateful. They love. It's just, it's like they value it more. I don't want to like totally make that an all encompassing statement. I'm not saying, you know, if you make more money, you don't. I'm not at all trying to say that. I am just saying that you can't overlook these people that, you know, we might have a client and you can't judge them. It's not your place to judge. Like, oh, they only make this much money or they drive this kind of car. They can't possibly be able to afford what I'm selling. That's you. And that has nothing to do with you. It's none of your business. And just serve them and do the best you can. And they love that. And it's such a rewarding feeling, you know, And I don't think small town or the income level of your town, I don't think it has anything to do with it. If anything, you're just making yourself stand out more. And people in bigger cities pay a lot of money for that kind of thing to make yourself be that stand out. Like you are different. You know, it's really easy to do in a small town. So those people in small town saying that they can't make it work, they're actually overlooking a really cool thing, which is you're the only person doing anything like this. And if you are shocking people with your prices, they're going to remember you. You are going to be the topic of conversation and that's marketing.

[Nikki Klosser]

Oh, I love that. I love that. I love, love, love that you just said that it is not up to us to decide how people are Going to spend that $30,000 that they make every year. It's none of our business.

[Jessica Malone]

Ex.

[Nikki Klosser]

Our decision. So if you're someone out there who's saying, oh, but I live. Oh, but I live in a small town. Oh, but I live in here, oh, but that's on you. That is your excuse. And if you want to continue to make that a reason that you don't bring your pricing up, that's fine. That you're never going to have a sustainable business. Now, I don't mean to sound like an asshole when I'm saying these things. I just think sometimes we need to have that little, like, kick in the pants. And hearing from someone like you who's doing it, it's just. It's such an example. But I will say, though, your work is extraordinary. Your work is beautiful. So that helps too.

[Jessica Malone]

Thank you.

[Nikki Klosser]

Yeah. If you can be the photographer that people want to book, they'll find a way to pay for it. They will.

[Jessica Malone]

My images, I mean, I still. I'm the typical artist. I'm gonna look at them and be like, oh, well, that can be improved. Or you can, you know, I think we always are guilty of that. But it definitely, you know, my quality of images have definitely improved over the years since being in the course and taking, you know, like, Felix's course and all of that. I mean, that's been like a total game changer. But even when before all that, before the lights and all that education, I was still selling, you know, like, I sold pictures for what I look at now, and I'm like, oh, my gosh. So it can't. You know, I feel like that can easily be another excuse, like you were saying earlier, like, that analysis paralysis, you know, once we get past the, like, oh, it's a small town, but I can still do it. Cause this person's doing it, you know, still don't get caught in your work. But they're not. My work isn't like this. Or it's like this. That's a great point. Like, it doesn't. Yeah, just feel. Do your best and keep learning and just go out there and sell it.

[Nikki Klosser]

Yeah, that's a really good point. I do the same. Sometimes I'll see some of my older work and be like, dang, they spent three grand on that. And I can see, like, how I want to, like, go in and re edit them and then send them to them again, like.

[Jessica Malone]

But the clients love to the same thing. Yeah. And you can't say anything about it because they're just like, you know, I've never quite said that openly to a client, but I have, like, almost said something like, oh, like a return client coming back, like, oh, I should fix this. Or, you know, we could do it different this time. And they're like, why? I loved it.

[Nikki Klosser]

I'm like, okay, right? Because we see things that they don't see.

[Jessica Malone]

Exactly.

[Nikki Klosser]

I mean, if the focus is soft or, like, if we cut their wrist off or whatever, those are things that photographers are gonna notice. But I've never not sold a photo because someone's fingertip was cut off or because the focus was soft. It's like, we see those things, they don't care. They care that they look beautiful, that their kids look great.

[Jessica Malone]

Exactly. And, you know, because of that, I actually. So I started out with the reveal wall, and I did the prints, and I fully retouched images and showed that, and that worked great. But I noticed. And I don't know what it is just about me. I'm just a different little person, I guess, because I always pick, like, the clients will pick, or not even, like, clients, anybody. Like, they'll always pick the one that I don't pick. I always like the. And so I started. And when I started photographing my own kids, I noticed this too, because photographer Jessica would look at this picture and be like, oh, we can't possibly use that, because, like you said, this is cut off. This is wrong. You know? But then, like, mom Jessica is looking at it like, but his face, you know? And so I started doing immediate reveals after my shoot. And that, like, also changed a lot of things because they were picking stuff that I would have been like, oh, like, I don't know about that. You know, hand positioning, or, I don't know about that body. And they'd be like, oh, no, I love it. So I just kind of got out of my own way on that. And they started, like, honestly picking more images because they were picking stuff that I wouldn't have picked, you know?

[Nikki Klosser]

Yeah. Tell me, how do you do that?

[Jessica Malone]

Immediate reveal, just after their session, while they're, you know, my assistant helps pack up their clothes and, you know, all of that, and I load them in. I just use bridge because it's quicker than importing into Lightroom. And now I have a USB cable that I just hook up to my laptop so they can, you know, I can sit farther away from them. We're not all huddled over a laptop screen. I hook it up to the tv, and they sit on my couch and relax, and I go through and. And I show them three images at a time, and I tell them the keeper, you know, tell me what they want to keep. What's a maybe? And I mark those and, you know, I filter it to where the next round. They only see the maybes or the yeses. And we keep going until they get, you know, get it narrowed down to the images they can't live without. And then we decide what we're going to do with them.

[Nikki Klosser]

Nice. Very cool. Yeah, it seems like, you know, the more people I interview, a lot of people are starting to do things that way. I don't. There was, like, a. There was a post in the group the other day, and someone had said that, you know, she was doing the immediate reveal, and her client hated the photos. And she said that it was based on the way, you know, her wrinkles looked and whatever. And she was trying to explain to her, I'll retouch them. And then, like, 50 people jumped on, like, this is why I don't do reveals right away, you know, so it could go either way, I think, you know, so whatever personal preference is, totally.

[Jessica Malone]

Well, I have learned some hard lessons on that. So I had one woman come in, and she was probably in her 60s, but she literally had, like, the most gorgeous. She had better skin than, like, I'll ever have, you know, and she's 30 some years older than me. And so normally when I shoot, you know, somebody who might have wrinkles or something like that, I will light it very, like, flat, you know, front. Like, really minimize those shadows. I take that into account. But I saw this woman. I'm like, oh, my God, you have, like, this amazing skin. I can get all artsy with you. And so I. I was doing this, like, kind of harder light from the side, like, these deeper shadows. And as soon as we sat down, she said, why don't these look like my friends? And I realized I had shot all of her friends with, like, the same lighting and hurt. Because, honestly, her skin was better than her friends. I thought I could get away with it. And she was just like, oh. And so, I mean, we. And I talked her through it. I'm like, look, we're like Harry Potter in retouching. There's a lot of things that we can do, you know, you've seen all my work. I'm not gonna make you look like my name is on this. And I was able to work it out. And, like, she loves her images, but it was definitely, like, because I thought she was so beautiful. And I'm like, how am I gonna Say, well, I did this harder lighting because I thought you had better skin than your friends.

[Nikki Klosser]

Right, right, Totally.

[Jessica Malone]

I don't wanna say that. So I have learned. And with Boudoir, I might be going back to a more stylized. Because, you know, women are definitely a little bit more conscious. Like, everybody's a little bit more conscious in a boudoir shoot, you know, And I get that. But just, like, seeing themselves, you know, it's a very vulnerable thing. So I do understand that maybe immediate reveals are the best all of the time. And there are some things you need to take into consideration, like lighting on the shoot. You know, how familiar are they with your work and the other people that you've shot? Because I have had some people come in and they're like, oh, I know what so and so looks like in real life every day. And I saw her portraits, so I trust you. And they were totally fine with it. So it just kind of depends. I have learned a few hard lessons with that, but, like, branding, anything like that. I'm just like, immediate reveal. This is, you know.

[Nikki Klosser]

Yeah, that makes sense.

[Jessica Malone]

Let me just send this off to retouching, and let's move on. Let me do the fun stuff. Yeah, for sure.

[Nikki Klosser]

And, you know, I don't want people out there to think that, like, we retouch people to the cows come home, you know, but it's like, no. It's like I'll say to my clients, like, and sometimes they'll ask, and sometimes I'll just say it. It's like when you have blemishes or, you know, if you have dark circles under your eyes or whatever, I have no problem. These are gonna be for your business or for, you know, something on your wall forever or whatever. There's a time and a place for reality. And, like, look how exhausted I was on this day. Like, there's a time and a place for those photos. So I'll say, like, things that aren't permanent. Like, we don't always have dark, puffy circles. Like, maybe it's our time of the month. Or maybe we had a salt bagel for breakfast. Cause that might be my favorite food. Like, you know what I mean? And so I'll say to my clients, listen, the things that aren't permanent, I will help you with for sure. But I never want someone to look at the photo and think, oh, she was Photoshopped. Like, that is not my goal.

[Jessica Malone]

Right. I feel like it's the same with makeup, too. They always say they want you to be like, oh, you look so Pretty. You're not, like, not your makeup looks pretty, but you look pretty. The retouching is not the point. You're the point. I always explain to my clients and. And I do the same thing. Like, if it's not gonna be there in six months, I'm automatically going to remove it. Or a year, if it's not a permanent thing, you know, like a birthmark or a scar or something like that. I would always ask before that, but I always explain it. Like, you know how when you think about somebody that you love and when you picture them in your mind, you don't picture dark circles, you don't picture wrinkles, you don't picture blemishes. It's like the way people see you is a mix between reality, what's there, and their version of you in their head, you know? And when we love someone, and even people that we don't love, we still have, like, a much kinder lens for that than we do ourselves usually. So I tell them, my job is to retouch you. To what? That's how you look, how you really look to someone. Because when someone looks at you, it's mixed with this idea of you in their head. And that idea does not include dark circles. That idea doesn't include. I mean, it might have fine lines. Yeah. Cause, you know, we age. That happens. Like, it's fine, but, like, it's not the first thing that they're seeing in their mind. So I feel like that's my job, to match that portrait with that image of a person in their mind or in their heart of somebody that cares about them, not the image that you have of yourself. Because, again, that's usually a little bit more harsh.

[Nikki Klosser]

That's a great way to put it.

[Jessica Malone]

A little bit more harsh than people you love. Yeah.

[Nikki Klosser]

Yeah, for sure. And on the flip side of it, too, I will say, like, listen, if there is something that's bothering you, like, during their photo viewing, if they're like, ugh, I wish my hair was more volume, or, oh, my nose looks big, or something like that, I'm like, if you want me to retouch something, if I can do it, I will. I have no problem. So speak up. Because my goal is for them to love their photos and me to make a big sale. So if we can marry those two together, I have no problem doing it.

[Jessica Malone]

Yeah. I just let them know what I'm gonna do without instruction. My ultimate. Like you said, the ultimate job is for me to make you happy and to make a great sale. That's at the end of the day, whatever level of retouching that's gonna require, that's what we'll do. Yeah, absolutely.

[Nikki Klosser]

Absolutely. Gosh, it sounds like you have a really great thing going. And you said that it's basically just word of mouth. Is there any sort of formal marketing that you do or is it just tagging people on Facebook? Like, how are you doing that?

[Jessica Malone]

Yeah, I have Facebook and Instagram and I have my website. And I'm really bad about consistency on posting. I'm one of those people. I have my phases where I do really well. So I don't think it's really that it's a lot of word of mouth. I don't have any, like, formal anything, really. I've always just kind of, you know, had a Facebook page and an Instagram. And yeah, I have found, like, you know, when doing social media, the more you talk about them, the easier it is. You know, people. Yeah, some people like to hear about, like, oh, I shot this on this day and this is how I was feeling, and I really loved it. Like, well, yeah, but, like, let's talk about what these people are saying. You know, their actual client, like, and their friends and family, like, you know, pick up on that. And it's just organically kind of does its thing.

[Nikki Klosser]

Yeah, yeah. Oh, that's the best way. That's awesome.

[Jessica Malone]

But, yeah, it's word of mouth, social media. That's it.

[Nikki Klosser]

So I'm curious, like, are you the only photographer in town? Are there a lot of photographers? Are you just the only one offering this particular service?

[Jessica Malone]

Oh, there's a lot of photographers here, I think, you know, there's a lot of photographers anywhere that you go. I am probably the only one really specializing in portrait in the style that we, you know, see in the group and all of that. But there are, you know, there are plenty of photographers around here. There's other studios. So, yeah, they. They definitely have more options than just me. And I'm actually relatively new to this area. I've only had the studio here for two years, almost three years.

[Nikki Klosser]

Oh, wow.

[Jessica Malone]

And, yeah, So I predominantly worked in a different county and in another city before coming here, so. So I've only been here for, like, five years in this town.

[Nikki Klosser]

Okay. Gosh.

[Jessica Malone]

So, yeah, there's a lot. There's a lot of other people. I'm a fairly. I'm like the new kid on the block here.

[Nikki Klosser]

Yeah, I feel like you're kind of crushing all of the reasons people say they can't do this, but I'M new in my city, but it's a small town.

[Jessica Malone]

Oh, yeah.

[Nikki Klosser]

You know, like, there's all these. There's a million photographers in my area. It's like, I feel like you've just kind of.

[Jessica Malone]

I could argue with every last one of them.

[Nikki Klosser]

Yeah, totally. Totally. So I'm really. It's been really great. It's been really great to hear your story, and I'm really. I'm excited for you. It sounds like you're just on, like, a trajectory to go up and up, and it's very exciting.

[Jessica Malone]

Yes, that's the plan. Keep going, get bigger, get better.

[Nikki Klosser]

Definitely. All right, awesome. Well, yeah, I appreciate everything that you've shared. I do have a couple more questions for you, if you don't mind my asking. I always ask the same four questions at the end of each episode, and the first one is, what's something you can't live without when you're doing a photo shoot?

[Jessica Malone]

You know? Okay. So I listened to this podcast, and I had a feeling you were gonna ask me, and I wanted to say, like, music, because music is. You know, I love the environment it takes, but I feel like if I want to be super authentic about this, super authentic and super cheesy, I'm gonna have to say my camera. I know that's kind of like, well, yeah, what can you. But here's why. I feel like I've lived so many photographer lives. You know, I've shot a field in golden hour. I've done weddings, I've done babies. I've shot. You know, I've done it all. And that was before I had strobes, before I even knew what a V flat was. And I made it work, and I was still selling, and I was still making people happy. So I think it's just the camera. You know, Ansel Adams said the most important piece of photography equipment is 6 inches behind the camera, and that's the photographer. And I think as long as there's me and a camera, I'll be all right. I can do it. I can make it work somehow.

[Nikki Klosser]

It's a great answer. I love it. I love it.

[Jessica Malone]

I felt like it was cheesy, so. But. Okay.

[Nikki Klosser]

No, no, it makes sense. I mean, it is. Our clients are relying on us to create the magic.

[Jessica Malone]

Granted, I would definitely love, like, all my modifiers and my V flats. I've learned to love them. And, you know, I could say a million different pieces of gear that I love and I use all of the time, but if you were gonna be like, must have Throughout. Thick and thin. Anyway, like, just the camera and you. That's all you need.

[Nikki Klosser]

Yep.

[Jessica Malone]

Yep.

[Nikki Klosser]

Love it. Okay, number two, how do you spend your time when you aren't working?

[Jessica Malone]

Well, I have kids and I have, you know, spend a lot of time with my family. In a former lifetime, we used to go to concerts all of the time, so we would, you know, go watch live music. But I'm also a farmer, so I spend a lot of. Yeah. As if I didn't have enough going on, I have chickens in a very big garden. We grow food and all of that. So if I'm not photographing, I'm chasing chickens or children on my farm.

[Nikki Klosser]

Chasing chickens or children? I love it.

[Jessica Malone]

Sometimes both. Yes.

[Nikki Klosser]

Yeah. Okay, number three, what's your favorite inspirational quote?

[Jessica Malone]

Oh, this is a tough one because I love quotes. And I'm gonna have to go with. Cause I'm very big on mindset, and I believe it's a Buddhist quote. What you think you become, what you feel you attract and what you imagine, you create.

[Nikki Klosser]

So powerful. And it's so true. It's so true. It all goes back to that mindset. I love it.

[Jessica Malone]

Yeah.

[Nikki Klosser]

Good choice on that. Okay, number four, what would you say to people who are just getting started?

[Jessica Malone]

My biggest advice to photographers starting out is to be aware of how powerful your mindset is, because that will make or break things for you. No matter what level you're at, no matter what you have or what you don't have, like, that's going to be what changes the game for you. And as long as you have the right mindset, literally nothing can stop you.

[Nikki Klosser]

Oh, that's such perfect advice.

[Jessica Malone]

Thank you. Perfect advice.

[Nikki Klosser]

Thank you. Yeah.

[Jessica Malone]

Thank you.

[Nikki Klosser]

All right, Jessica, actually, I do have one more question. Where can people find you online if they're looking for you?

[Jessica Malone]

So Instagram and Facebook. I am under Jessica Malone portrait. I also just started a side page for. I guess not a side page. A different page for just my boudoir work. And it's under Ohio Boudoir. I also have a website, jessica-malone.com as well as ohioboudoir.com.

[Nikki Klosser]

Awesome. Cool. Well, thank you again. I appreciate it. I had no idea about the whole small town piece, so I'm so glad. I'm so glad that came out and all of this. So. Yeah, that's great. That's great. Yeah. Very cool.

[Jessica Malone]

Yeah, it was awesome. Thanks for having me on here.

[Nikki Klosser]

Yes. Yeah. I will see you in the Facebook group soon, I'm sure.

[Jessica Malone]

Definitely. Thanks, Nikki.

[Nikki Klosser]

All right, take care. Thank you so much for listening to the Portrait System podcast. Your 5 star reviews really help us to continue what we do. So if you like listening, would you mind giving us a review wherever you listen? I also encourage you to head over to SubricEducation.com where you can find all of the education you need to be a successful photographer. There are over 1000 on demand educational videos on things like posing, lighting, styling, retouching, shooting, marketing, sales, business and self value. There's also the 90 day startup challenge plus so many downloads showing hundreds of different poses. We have to do checklists for your business, lighting PDFs. I mean truly everything to help make you a better photographer and to make you more money. Once Again, that's Sue briceducation.com.