How To Reach A $3k+ Sales Average With Boudoir with Michele Mateus (Re-Release)

Summary

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Podcast Summary: The Portrait System Podcast

Episode: "How To Reach A $3k+ Sales Average With Boudoir" with Michele Mateus (Re-Release)

Host: Nikki Closser
Guest: Michele Mateus
Date: November 18, 2025

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Episode Overview

In this episode, host Nikki Closser interviews Vancouver-based boudoir and portrait photographer Michele Mateus. Michele shares her journey in building a successful boudoir business with a consistent $3,000+ sales average, her focus on client connection and empowerment, and offers in-depth insights into her client experience, sales processes, and marketing strategies. The conversation highlights the importance of authenticity, client care, and adapting business models to personal strengths and local market realities.

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Table of Contents

1. About Michele Mateus and Her Studio
2. Michele’s Core Philosophy: Purpose Before Profits
3. Balancing Connection and Sales
4. Client Journey & Communication
5. The Photoshoot Experience
6. Sales Process: In-Person and Virtual IPS
7. Marketing & Client Attraction
8. Email Marketing as a Cornerstone
9. Favorite Tools & Workflow
10. Managing Disability and Self-Care as a Photographer
11. Advice & Takeaways for Photographers
12. Memorable Quotes
13. Where to Find Michele Mateus

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About Michele Mateus and Her Studio

• Location: Vancouver, British Columbia; 300 sq. ft. home studio
  • “It’s definitely a bone of contention with my 9-year-old because I took over when he was 4…” (03:42)
• Genres: Boudoir and intimate portraits, also does personal branding on location.
• Founded her studio approximately five years ago after years in design and photography education.

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Michele’s Core Philosophy: Purpose Before Profits

• Background in social justice and feminist theory deeply influences her approach.
• “For me, I'm really passionate about not seeing people as a top selling pose, not seeing people as how many portraits I'm going to sell to them, but seeing them for who they are, celebrating the beauty within them for whatever that means for them and just really celebrating humanity.” (00:35, 06:05)
• Intentionally moves the focus away from numbers and toward genuine client care and empowerment.

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Balancing Connection and Sales

• Sales averages $3,500–$5,000 per session, but prioritizes client experience.
• “Because I focus more on that connection and that depth and the artistry... it just all works out that way.” (08:07)
• Recognizes the need for financial sustainability ("I live in the most expensive city in Canada") but believes genuine connection drives referrals and larger sales.

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Client Journey & Communication

Discovery Call (12:38–15:43)

• Discovery calls are used to ensure a mutual fit, not just for the client but for Michele as well.
• Integrates embodiment coaching/trauma-informed questions to promote safety and comfort.
• Language and communication style are consistent from website to calls.
• “One of the questions I've just added to that call is: how do you want to feel when you see your portraits?” (15:18)

Booking & Pre-Shoot Prep (17:04–20:01)

• Session fee is collected at booking.
• Creative consultation via Zoom for efficiency and client comfort.
• Detailed questionnaires designed to identify special needs, triggers, or sensory issues.
• Trauma-informed practice: “Because I ask people those questions when we're on that zoom, they're like, wow, people never asked me that.” (17:33)

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The Photoshoot Experience

• Blends studied posing with intuitive, energy-led direction.
• “I just go with the flow... I ask them if they have a playlist that they brought. If not, I have a few curated playlists...” (23:30)
• Uses humor and vulnerability (shares her own MS diagnosis) to create a safe, relaxed environment.
• Incorporates “play,” intention-setting (pulling cards), and embodiment techniques like breathing exercises.
• “Today is just about play… because how often as adults do we play just for the heck of it?” (25:21)

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Sales Process: In-Person and Virtual IPS

• Offers in-person and virtual (Zoom) sales reveals; about half of clients are from out of town.
• IPS structure based on Sue Bryce’s collections: 7, 15, 25, 35 images (prints + albums for higher collections).
• Prepayment available, with most clients upgrading after image reveal.
• Displays both black & white and color images based on client preferences.
• “We go through the photos, there’s often big emotions… that’s often when they cry, you know, this release to see themselves.” (30:52)
• Meticulous email communication before, during, and after (38+ emails over a year!).

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Marketing & Client Attraction

• Early years: focused on local networking (BNI, women’s groups), but had limited alignment.
• Ads (Google/Facebook) not effective for high-touch, boutique service offerings.
• Finds best clients through referrals and organic Google search.
• “I would say 45% of my clients are either returning clients or referrals.” (35:13)
• Attraction-based: Getting louder about who she is, repelling wrong-fit clients.

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Email Marketing as a Cornerstone

• Grows email list intentionally (“slow burning candle, not fireworks”).
• Weekly nurture emails: 1/4 sales-focused, rest offer tips, personal stories, embodiment advice.
• “I send four emails a month, so one every week… We run it like a conversation. Like, I don’t sell a lot through my... just one email a month out of the four is a sales email.” (40:03)
• High open rates (63%!) due to authenticity and value-driven content.
• Encourages nurturing, not just selling: “You have to nurture. You have to give them some things that are going to make them want to read more and learn more and then eventually book.” (41:42)

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Favorite Tools & Workflow

• Lighting: Predominantly uses Profoto strobes and modifiers (45:18)
• Always brings a reflector (five-in-one!) to shoots: “Cheapest thing, easiest thing, clamshell lighting—you don’t need two lights, use a reflector.” (52:12)
• Regular creative play sessions for artistic growth (46:59)
• Studio assistant is “game changer” for energy and focus (48:30)

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Managing Disability and Self-Care as a Photographer

• Lives with multiple sclerosis; incorporates self-care and communicates physical needs to clients.
• “I tell everybody before the shoot... I use humor a lot, so I just try and be very honest with them. And I think because I’m so vulnerable…it makes it more of an invitation for people to be open with me too, for sure.” (22:19)
• Uses a studio assistant to manage physical demands of shoots and protect her health and energy.

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Advice & Takeaways for Photographers

• On Pricing: “Price yourself sustainably...I did not. See what you’re doing as a business.”
• Business Coaching: “Invest in a good business coach… and know that every business coach will bring you different nuggets.”
• Authenticity: “Don’t follow the masses...If people are going right, go left.” (54:38)
• Creative Inspiration: “Go and look at something that might be different, that might not even be photography.” (56:13)
• Networking and Marketing: Focus on nurturing relationships over transactional sales; quality over quantity in networking.
• Reinvention: Take inspiration but make your work and business models your own.

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Memorable Quotes

• “Meeting people where they’re at and reflecting back what I can capture in them that maybe they forgot that they had within them.” – Michele Mateus (06:05)
• “When you become so focused on the money...you’re not really...I’m a total empath and like working from that heart center, I don’t know, it just calls in more of that juicy goodness.” – Michele (08:07)
• “You can’t forget that this is not a dollar sign. It’s a human being who, yes, is going to pay you, but it’s all about how you’re making them feel in that moment.” – Nikki (10:33)
• “I just go with the flow...that word: play. I often tell people today is just about play, you know, because how often as adults do we play?” – Michele (25:22)
• “Just be yourself and be a bit louder at it.” – Michele (39:18)
• “You don’t have to recreate the wheel, but you also don’t have to feel like that’s the gospel truth...there’s only one way.” – Michele (54:54)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• Core Philosophy & Connection: 00:35, 06:05, 08:07
• Discovery Call & Communication: 12:38–15:43
• Shoot Process & Experience: 22:55–27:10
• Sales Process: 28:47–34:07
• Email Marketing: 39:30–44:56
• Reflector & Essential Gear: 52:12–53:42
• Business Advice: 53:49–56:13

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Where to Find Michele Mateus

• Website: mateastudios.com
• Instagram (Photography): @mateastudios
• Instagram (Coaching/Embodiment): @matiascoaching

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This episode is essential listening for portrait and boudoir photographers craving real-world, high-touch strategies; it emphasizes personal values, client care, and building a business that truly fits your life. Michele’s candid, empowering approach and practical business advice make this an inspiring resource for those looking to grow both professionally and personally.

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Transcript

[Nikki Klosser]

Hey there, it's Nikki Klosser and I want to let you know about an awesome free giveaway for people on our email list. If you haven't already, click the link in our podcast description or go to theportraitsystem.com signup to get on the list. If you sign up, you'll get a free posing 101 PDF to jumpstart things. It's an epic PDF, so you'll definitely want to get this. Also, just by being in our email community, you'll get deals, sales and information about any of our upcoming events and activities. So head over to theportraitsystem.com signup and and sign up today. You're listening to the Portrait System podcast.

[Michelle Matias]

For me, I'm really passionate about not seeing people as a top selling pose, not seeing people as how many portraits I'm going to sell to them, but seeing them for who they are, celebrating the beauty within them for whatever that means for them and just really celebrating humanity.

[Nikki Klosser]

Welcome to the Portrait System podcast. I'm your host, Nikki Klosser and this.

[Podcast Narrator]

Show is here to help you succeed.

[Nikki Klosser]

In the world of photography and business.

[Podcast Narrator]

To help you learn to become financially.

[Nikki Klosser]

Free, doing what you love and so much more. With over 1 million downloads, countless photographers have taken what they've learned from both.

[Podcast Narrator]

Our episodes and from theportraitsystem.com and they.

[Nikki Klosser]

Have grown their businesses, quit their day.

[Podcast Narrator]

Jobs and are designing a life of their dreams.

[Nikki Klosser]

We keep it real and share stories.

[Podcast Narrator]

About the ups and downs that come.

[Nikki Klosser]

With running a photography business. You'll hear real life stories of how other photographers run their business and you'll.

[Podcast Narrator]

Learn actionable steps that you can take.

[Nikki Klosser]

To reach your own goals.

[Podcast Narrator]

Thank you so much for being here.

[Nikki Klosser]

And let's get started this week on the Portrait System. My guest is Michelle Matias. Michellee has been a photographer in Vancouver, British Columbia since 2015 and her main genre is boudoir. With a focus on empowerment, Michellee shares how she creates a safe and welcoming environment for her clients. And while she doesn't really like to focus on money, when it comes to her business, she still maintains and over $3,000 sales average. Okay, let's get started with Michelle Mateus. Hi Michelle. Welcome to the Portrait System.

[Michelle Matias]

Thanks for having me, Nikki. This is. I'm super excited to be here and very spontaneous. So.

[Nikki Klosser]

I know, I know we kind of did it last minute every so often. Yeah, every so often. Make it happen.

[Michelle Matias]

I think this is a good reminder when you're, when you should say yes, you Know, sometimes you have to say no and sometimes you just be open to saying yes. So I'm excited to be here.

[Nikki Klosser]

That's great. I know. It's so funny now that I'm. Well, I'm 46 now, but once I turned 40, I started really kind of honing in on when I'm gonna say yes and when I'm gonna say no. And that saying no is okay just as much as saying yes is okay.

[Michelle Matias]

Totally. I don't know. I'm also in the 46 Club. 1976.

[Nikki Klosser]

Are you 46?

[Michelle Matias]

Yes.

[Nikki Klosser]

I did not know that.

[Michelle Matias]

That's your Emma.

[Nikki Klosser]

Very cool. You do not look 46. I mean, not that it matters, you know, whatever. We all look, whatever. I'm not trying to say that you have to look a certain way if.

[Michelle Matias]

You'Re 46 or not, but anyways, it's my jovial spirit.

[Nikki Klosser]

There you go. Perfect. Okay, Michelle, will you tell people just a little bit about. Well first, where do you live and where's your studio? And then what do you mostly shoot?

[Michelle Matias]

Okay, sure. I am in Vancouver, Canada, just about half an hour outside of Vancouver in a small. Well actually it's not a small suburb anymore. The city has been so sprawling, so it almost feels like a different neighborhood. Vancouver and I have a home studio. In fact, I have 300 square feet that used to be my kids playroom and so I shoot in here. Yes. I actually just.

[Nikki Klosser]

I wouldn't guess that based on your work that you have a. Yeah. That you have a small, smaller space.

[Michelle Matias]

Yeah, yeah, it's 300 square feet. It's small and it's definitely a bone of contention still with my 9 year old because I took over when he was 4 and I mostly shoot boudoir and intimate portraits and I also do personal brand photography for the Personal brand photography. I do that on location. I've been doing that for about eight years. And I started the studio when My son was four, so about five years ago.

[Nikki Klosser]

Okay, awesome. I had a 300 square foot studio for four years. I loved was like my little bread and butter studio. And if it didn't start smelling like a dead animal and we couldn't figure out why, I don't think I would have ever moved out of it in Seattle. But the landlord's like, I don't know what to tell you. We can't work it out. And I'm like, well, I can't have studio smelling like a dead animal, so.

[Michelle Matias]

We'Re gonna have to go. Okay, that doesn't sound great, but yeah, you know what? I just finished recording my first course and it's gonna be like small spaces, big impact and wait. I feel like the whole thing about having a small studio originally really stressed me out and I thought I needed all these things and the more I connected with my original purpose and my why of just. I love simplicity. I'm a total minimalist and leaning into that. I feel like when you have a small space it forces you to be more creative in because you have to like. It's like the tiny home show, you know, where everything is like transforming and you have to find. Yeah. I don't know, it's. I wouldn't change it to be honest. And honestly, rent here in Vancouver is insane.

[Nikki Klosser]

Yes. That part of the. The world is quite expensive. Yeah, I can relate to that.

[Michelle Matias]

Yeah.

[Nikki Klosser]

From being in Seattle.

[Michelle Matias]

Yeah.

[Nikki Klosser]

Being in Michigan, it's different. I mean the area that I live in in Michigan isn't the cheapest, but it is definitely night and day from Seattle, Vancouver, port, like that whole area. Pretty wild.

[Michelle Matias]

The west coast. Yeah, west coast, Best coast. Yeah. It's because we have great weather and everyone wants to come here and it's, it's. But yeah. And you know what? It's the best commute ever. So I can't complain.

[Nikki Klosser]

Well, there you go. There you go. Okay, so you said that you know, it having that smaller space or whatever brings you back to kind of your why and why you do this. Like I know that, I know you said you do shoot boudoir and intimate type portraits, but you also have a, you know, a pretty strong, solid message behind what you do. Will you share a little bit about that?

[Michelle Matias]

Yeah, sure. And it's interesting in thinking about talking with you today because that message. Actually I had an interview with Terry Hofford recently and she was like, have you always been like that? And I was like, yes. Because when I went to university I studied social justice and feminist theory and I've always been a bit of a, you know, human rights activist, a total freedom warrior kind of person. And when I became a photographer that got lost for sure because I was so focused on business and making this work and everything like that. And over the years just refining my message and coming back to that wise for me I'm really passionate about not seeing people as a top selling pose, not seeing people as how many portraits I'm going to sell to them, but seeing them for who they are. Celebrating, celebrating the beauty within them, for whatever that means for them and just really celebrating humanity. And I, yeah, I really pride myself in that. And I think that that really goes back to those original academic roots that I never knew I was going to use when you're doing your undergrad. You know, I did use it professionally in my day job before I had a business. But for me, it's all about meeting people where they're at and reflecting back what I can capture in them that maybe they forgot that they had within them. So, yeah, you know, I don't Photoshop a lot. I'm really passionate about just trying to capture the essence of someone for whoever they are.

[Nikki Klosser]

So how do you balance that? Because, yes, you can. Of course, it's all about our clients and making them just feel comfortable and confident and proud of the images that you deliver to them. But it also is how, I mean, that's how I pay my bills. So how do you. Because I know you're like, it's not about how many photos you can sell or whatever, but like, how do you balance that between. I need to make X amount of money per shoot in order to pay. You know what I mean? Like, okay, that's a great question.

[Michelle Matias]

I mean, I have a high average sale. I think it's pretty decent. It's about 3,500 currently. Between that and 5,000. And I don't have a posing system. I actually just had a photographer message me and was like, I'd love to see a video of you shooting. Your people always look like they're dancing. And I think it's because I connect so deeply with them that I don't have to think about that stuff because I know that I have that confidence in myself, with my camera, with my skills. I did actually go to school for photography and I went to school for design. So I have a really strong foundational basis. And I think I got so wound up in the business that I forgot about the people. And so going back to that, my sales got bigger. My connection and the depth of my work and how I feel about it, that grew exponentially. Right. And so I think that that's how I balance it because I'm not so focused on that anymore. You know, I think that when you become so focused on the money and like this, I don't know if this video is going to be shown, but I feel like I'm doing this like, train track movement. That's. That's where you're at and you're not really. I don't know, I'm a total empath and like working from that heart center, I don't know, it just calls in more of that juicy goodness and less of my focus has been going on the metrics, which I know are important. Yes. This is also not a hobby for me. I need to make money. I live in the most expensive city in Canada, so it's not like, oh, you know, my husband has it covered. No, that's not our case at all. But I feel like because I focus more on that connection and that depth and the artistry. Yeah, it just all works out that way.

[Nikki Klosser]

Yeah, it's so true. That whole connection piece. I mean, not that I can say this is like solid data, but just based on the feedback that I've had from clients and the referrals that I get from clients, I think one of the main reasons I have been as successful as I am with clients is exactly what you said. It's connecting with them, it's making them feel comfortable. And this is what I love about this business. We can all have a different way of doing things, but having the same result, which is connecting and making the money and making our clients feel amazing and all of that. Like, I have more of a structured, like, well, okay, for personal branding, if I'm going to do family shoots or, you know, boudoir or seniors, I don't have as much of a system. But for personal branding, I tend to be more efficient. I have more of a system.

[Michelle Matias]

But.

[Nikki Klosser]

But yeah, I mean, I think however you decide to do it and how it feels for you, exactly what you're saying. You can't forget that this is not a dollar sign. It's a human being who, yes, is going to pay you, but it's all about how you're making them feel in that moment. Whether you're in a home, 300 square foot studio space or a big, huge space, it all goes back to how you're making them feel.

[Michelle Matias]

Yeah. You know, I was just thinking as you were saying that, and we've heard this so many times, like when we're on our deathbed, what are we thinking about? Are we thinking that we wish we made more money? No, we're thinking that we wished that we had more time with those that we love. So if we apply that to our business, if we apply this mindset of like, not just thinking of wanting more money, but how can we connect and serve, not sell. Right. You've heard that many times, I'm sure. I feel like that's where the shift starts to happen. And you know, I shoot personal branding too. And I don't know if it's because I'm just Neurotypical or what? But I just. I find it very hard to have, like, just a set system. I feel so strangled by that. You know, I have. I do have things in place, like questionnaires and all of that good stuff. But when I'm in the zone with that person, I'll tell you. I just did a photo shoot recently and she showed up. I photographed her in December. She came back already in June.

[Nikki Klosser]

Nice.

[Michelle Matias]

And she was like, she got to my door. She's like, I'm having the worst day ever. Oh. I was like, challenge accepted. Yeah. Yeah. You know, challenge accepted. And we had an amazing time. I did her reveal yesterday. Amazing sale. And she was like, I needed that so much that day. So I could have, like, taken on her energy and been like, oh, she's having a worst day and been really stressed. Or I could have just seen her, like, with empathy and been like, she probably really needs a really lovely special day today and met her energy where it was at. And I think that's our job.

[Nikki Klosser]

Yeah. Will you take us through kind of what your shooting process is and, you know, start to finish?

[Michelle Matias]

Yeah, for sure. I'm a little bit woo woo. So I love it.

[Nikki Klosser]

Love woo woo.

[Michelle Matias]

And as you noted on my website, I try and be really clear about my message. And for me, that's also about attracting the right people. And I'm okay to repel people too, right away. Of course. I do like the discovery call. I actually have someone that helps me with those. I'm just too busy to do them. Nice.

[Nikki Klosser]

Yep.

[Michelle Matias]

And just yesterday I rewrote my script because I had this script that was feeling, I don't know, a bit stuffy, and I just rewrote it to come from a totally different angle. And I've been doing this embodiment coaching program and so bringing more of that language into our initial call. So I'm really excited to see how that goes. And then of course, once they start, I have a creative consultation. Some people call that the wardrobe consultation. So I do that. And I also have like a questionnaire, things like that, just really quickly, for.

[Nikki Klosser]

People who are like, discovery call. Like, I know a lot. You know, in my networking group, the first time I went to a networking group, that's when I learned what a discovery call was. Because someone's like, oh, I'd like to book a discovery call. And I'm like, what's a discovery call? You know, so maybe just really quickly, what does that look like?

[Michelle Matias]

Yeah. So we jump on a call with whoever is interested in working with me and then we like to get to know them a bit more because here's the thing, my studio is in my home. So I'm not high volume studio. I don't do mini sessions. It's been advised to me many times by different coaches and things and it's just not in alignment with me because it is in my home. So I want to make sure that I'm going to like this person as much as they're going to like me. I think that we forget that, that we're allowed to interview the clients. Right? Yeah, we should interview too. So during that discovery call we have some questions at the beginning and I won't lie, depending on how they start to answer those, I sometimes when I do them I'm like okay, these, this person might not be my person. And so but I'm. Then I start asking a few more questions that I have is like, you know, the B roll questions to tease out a little bit more.

[Nikki Klosser]

Yeah.

[Michelle Matias]

And then of course we get into like the pricing. I want to be fully transparent pricing process, that kind of stuff. And then if they're ready to book, we'll book them right there on the phone and them on my calendar. I don't have any pressure saley kind of stuff. If they don't want to book, that's cool. We follow up with an email. I have a lot of templated emails that I used. Yeah, I have so many.

[Nikki Klosser]

Makes life so much easier, right?

[Michelle Matias]

I know, yeah. So I use dubsado. They're not automated because I do like to add a little something that they maybe said during that call and then we follow up with them. So that's how I do my discovery calls. And one of the questions I've just added to that call is like, how do you want to feel when you see your portraits?

[Nikki Klosser]

I like that.

[Michelle Matias]

How do you want to feel in your body? Because of the kind of work I do and the kind of clients I try and call in. For me it's not just about what do you want to see? Oh, I want to, I want to see. I want like. But how do you want to feel? So for me I'm really trying to set that tone. Like you asked me how do I found that balance? I think it starts right from that call of like how am I talking to them? What are, what are the words that we are using to make sure that we're both a good fit?

[Nikki Klosser]

Yeah, it seems like you, I mean I can just tell you make people feel really comfortable from the start. And you know you know, boudoir can be. Any photo shoot can be a totally vulnerable, you know, feel vulnerable. Like, most people don't really enjoy being photographed, but there's a different level when you're showing your body, a different level of comfortability that people have to have with you. And, yeah, it just seems like you're really great at getting that from the start. Yeah, that's awesome.

[Michelle Matias]

Yeah. Yeah. So I, you know, I think that. But language is so important. Again, it's back to how we're communicating with people. So my background is in communications. You know, they talk about beauty school dropout, while I'm a master's school dropout. I was doing my master's in communications. So language is super important. Choosing your words is super important. And I think it starts from our website to that call. And again, not just seeing people as a number. And I know that probably works for a lot of people. It probably works better than it works for me. You know, I only take four shoots a month anyway. But for me, I think being really intentional about how I connect with people has become more and more important the deeper I get into this business.

[Nikki Klosser]

That's true. Okay, so you do the discovery call. Once they're booked in, are they paying a session fee then and there to book the shoot? And then. Then what happens?

[Michelle Matias]

Yeah, so they pay the session fee, and then on that same call, we set them up right away with a creative consultation. So there's no back and forth with email or anything like that? Hopefully. I mean, sometimes they don't know their schedule, but we try and get it all locked in. Then I do that creative consultation over Zoom. And I know some people go to people's homes, but Vancouver is like traffic jam central. No, thanks. My time is worth more than sitting in traffic.

[Nikki Klosser]

Oh, Michelle. Yeah.

[Michelle Matias]

And it does not make me feel good in my body to be sat there all the time. I also have a child who has very high needs, and so I spent a lot of my time driving around, like, to different doctor's appointments and things for him. So I just don't want to do that. I also think that all my clients are busy, so I think people appreciate doing it on Zoom. I've only ever done it that way. I don't think it's changed my business. Like, I tried it a few times going to people's homes, and quite honestly, I felt like that took more time because we got more chatty. They offer you a cup of coffee, and I'm not good at being like, well, I gotta go. Whereas at home, it's easier. So, you know, I send them a questionnaire beforehand. If they don't fill it out, it's fine. I tell them, like, it's fine, don't sweat it. I don't want this to feel like homework because I am trained in. In trauma, like through the program that I'm in, I do ask them things like that on the questionnaire. So again, the kinds of things, not that they have to tell me, but is there anything I need to be aware of? Do you have any triggers that I need to be aware of? And for me, I also think, because I ask people that, like, I ask them their pronouns, I ask them how they feel about noise. I have a child who is very sensory processing, has a lot of sensory processing stuff. And going through that, learning about levels of noise, levels of light, can really be triggering for people. So all of that I'm asking them. And honestly, because I ask people those questions when we're on that zoom, they're like, wow, people never asked me that. And even if they've been photographed before, they're like, no one's ever asked me that. So again, I think to reflect back on what you first asked me, all of these questions lead to the. By the time they get here, they feel so comforted. I'll tell you. I was at Portrait Masters last year, and I was sitting around with some friends and we were talking about how I make a lot of my clients cry. And my friend, not intentionally, obviously. It just comes up. And on the plane ride back, my friend who I traveled there with asked me like, you know, you mentioned that. Like, she must've been thinking about it, like, how do you do that? I was like, I don't know. Like, I think it's just this release that so many people are truly being seen and their space is really being held for them. And there's just like these little crumbs along the way to ensure that comfort.

[Nikki Klosser]

I think you're making people feel important too. I mean, for someone to ask me about how I feel about certain levels of sound, especially being that I have hearing issues, you know, levels of sound and light and all of that, like, I think about, you know, the kids just went back to school, and I love my kids school, I love the staff. It's just been a really great experience. But this year they implemented where the music walking in. Okay, so at drop off, there's just booming loudspeakers with such loud music, and it's playing kids music.

[Michelle Matias]

Really?

[Nikki Klosser]

I think the intention was to like, yeah, we're back to school. Like, let's get hyped. And I was like. And I just kept thinking about. Yeah, I kept thinking about our. And I'm not trying to bash my kids school because truly it really is an amazing school school. But like our kids who have sensory issues, especially with sound, I just kept thinking where give them the earmuffs. Like, ah, this is gonna set them off, you know, Anyway, so. But my point is, is that it sounds like you're making people feel listened to, heard, their needs are important. And all of that again goes back to just. They're gonna feel so good about what they're doing with you, you know, it's.

[Michelle Matias]

I hope so. Yeah.

[Nikki Klosser]

Yeah. I really love this. And I know that you have your own. If it's okay if I mention it. You mentioned that it was okay earlier how you have a physical disability as well.

[Michelle Matias]

Yeah.

[Nikki Klosser]

And you know, there's that part of it too. Like how do you manage making sure that your clients needs are met but you're also taking care of your own body?

[Michelle Matias]

Yeah, it's a great question. I think. I'm very open. So I have multiple sclerosis. And so I used to shoot weddings for about five years. And I'm the kind of person that was like getting up on things and trying to get the shot and doing all kinds of crazy things, thinking I'm MacGyver, but I'm really, I'm clumsy. I'm really clumsy. I am not MacGyver. And my clients would often be like, oh, are you okay? But I would, I would, I would tell people like, hey, I have Ms. You know, that's what we say, multiple sclerosis. Just say Ms. And sometimes I'm a little dizzy. Sometimes it's a little hard for me to get up. And I tell everybody before the shoot. So I do a check in with them and how they're feeling in their body before I shoot. And I said I was woo woo before the shoot. I pull a card so we can set an intention for the shoot.

[Nikki Klosser]

Like, oh, that's so fun.

[Michelle Matias]

I got all the woo woo things going on.

[Nikki Klosser]

Yeah, that's great.

[Michelle Matias]

And then after they have checked in with me about how they're doing that day, I check in with them too. Like I'm not going to tell them that. Like that morning my son had a fit before school and didn't want. No, no, not that kind of stuff. But I will say so. You may know that I have multiple sclerosis. And sometimes I get a bit dizzy. I'm a little Bit wobbly. But don't worry, I won't fall on you. I use humor a lot, so I just try and be very honest with them. And I think because I'm so vulnerable with who I am and I share so much, I think it makes it more of an invitation for people to be open with me too, for sure.

[Nikki Klosser]

So, you know, again, obviously, the whole shoot process is about making them comfortable and connecting. And I know you said you don't have necessarily specific poses that you do, you know, regimented or whatever. So how does it, like, how does it look during your shoot? As opposed to, like, are you giving a lot of direction? Are you kind of like telling the client just to feel the moment? Moment. Like, how does that work?

[Michelle Matias]

Yeah, so I obviously, I've studied posing. I mean, I've been a super ICE member, I think, for seven years. Yeah, I've done Care Marie's courses workshops. I was in Italy this year doing her workshop there.

[Nikki Klosser]

Oh, nice.

[Michelle Matias]

So I've studied posing. I. I understand it, but it's kind of just all in my head. I don't. When I say I don't really pose people, I mean, like, I don't have, like, a system. Like, I don't kind of move them through. Right. Yeah. And when my friend who's a photographer said, I really want to see what. What's happening in your studio because it seems like you're dancing. We are dancing. So even though I have poses in mind, usually when they're in hair and makeup, I look at their clothing of what they brought. Because even though we did that wardrobe and creative consultation, they always surprise me and bring other things. And so I start kind of mapping things out. I do have a brain that's all over the place, so I actually write out a few key things I want to make sure I'm going to get on a recipe card. And I give that to my. Yeah, I give that to my studio assistant. I'm like, okay, here's the things I think I want to do. Can you make sure I do them? Sometimes that comes from their mood board, that they showed me something that they really, really love, and I don't want to miss that. And then I just. Yeah, I honestly, I just go with the flow. I ask them if they have a playlist that they brought. If not, I have a few curated playlists and I have different playlists of music because I'm really into music big time. And music helps us activate our senses. Right. And like my client that came the other day in a bad mood it was a bit more chill that day. Some people want the music bump in, so it kind of depends. And then I feel like I just kind of go on. That energy that they have. I know, again, the woo woo energy stuff, I can't help it.

[Nikki Klosser]

I mean, I don't see anything wrong with that. Unless a client verbalizes that. No, I don't want to pull a card or I don't. Whatever. I just feel like it adds to the. Just the whole experience in general.

[Michelle Matias]

Yeah. And, you know, some people have an intention, right? They're like, I really want this kind of thing. I really want to see myself like this. I have this mood board. Other people are like, I got nothing. Let's just play.

[Nikki Klosser]

Yeah, do your thing.

[Michelle Matias]

And also that word play. I often tell people today is just about play, you know, because how often as adults do we play? Just play for the heck of it? Not very often. Not with our kids. Right? Not with our kids. I have a very good friend of mine, we go on artist play dates where every quarter we try and do something in the arts together. And it's our own play date. No kids, no family, no nothing. Just the two of us. And I feel like when my clients come here, it's almost like that play date for them, you know, of just being playful.

[Nikki Klosser]

It's a good way to look at it.

[Michelle Matias]

Yeah, Yeah. I also do a lot of breathing exercises with them. I get them to pause. If I notice that they are really stressed or stiff. I'll be like, hey, you know what? Let's just take a minute here. And if it's cool with you, if this feels comfortable, let's do this quick little breathing exercise. And typically they're like, oh, yeah, I needed that. I needed that. So sometimes I'll do things like that, but just trying to bring them out of their head, you know, we all photograph people. They're like, do I look good? Do I look stupid? Are my hands in the right place? Like. And they're so in their head. So I just. I'm trying to get them out of their head as much as possible so they can just be more present in their bodies.

[Nikki Klosser]

I'm glad you're bringing this up because people quite often will ask. Ask about that, like, yeah, totally. What do you do when someone just cannot get into the poses and is, you know, just so stiff and. Yeah, it's a similar. My response is a similar process to yours. And sometimes I'm like, holding their hands and, you know, if they say it's okay for me to touch them you know, holding their hands. And I'm like, I got this. Like, I see something different than what you see. And, like, if you just like, let me do my thing, as long as you're comfortable, like, this is gonna be great. Like, just trust me, you know? And they're like, okay.

[Michelle Matias]

You know, it's like they just need to be comforted. But you know what, Nikki? I also think that we freeze in the moment when our clients freeze, because sometimes they're reflecting back at us, you know, how we might be, how we might feel, our own insecurities as well. I was thinking about that just yesterday about. And because I'm doing this really deep embodiment work and learning more about that. It's so often. And I think this comes back to, like, the photoshopping and how we alter people's bodies. I think often that's a reflection of our own insecurities because we wouldn't want to be seen a certain way. So then we project that onto our clients. And so sometimes I think when we freeze, and I froze too, but I feel like the more you become comfortable in yourself and your body and more free in yourself and do that inner work, you'll be able to guide people and pose people and not be so in your own head, you know, like, and just be a bit more free spirited through it all.

[Nikki Klosser]

Yeah, definitely. Oh, this is all such good stuff. One more thing I wanted to say before we talk about your pricing is. The one thing that Seattle traffic did that was positive for me was transition me into ips, in person sales, but doing it online, because this was like way before COVID I think I did in person, in person sales for like a year before I was like, this traffic is. I don't want to do it for me or the clients. So I know you do the in person sales on online, which is just some people feel differently about it. Some people are showing so many, you know, prints, and they have to do it online or in person as opposed to online. But I personally love doing it online. It sounds like you do as well. So just maybe you can take us through.

[Michelle Matias]

Yeah, sure.

[Nikki Klosser]

When you're pricing and then what the process looks like for you.

[Michelle Matias]

Yeah, sure. So I actually have a. I let them choose what they want. So I would say about half of my sales sessions, so I do IPS as well, are on zoom. Because a lot of my clients aren't local to me. I have a lot of clients, clients. And I don't. I haven't solved this mystery, but it's okay. I'LL own it. They come from Vancouver island so you have to take a ferry from there. They come from Whistler which is about two hours away from here. Yeah. So a lot of my clients aren't really local to me which is so fascinating. So in that case I will offer them as I'm not gonna make them come back, you know.

[Nikki Klosser]

Right.

[Michelle Matias]

For them.

[Nikki Klosser]

Big trip. Yeah, yeah.

[Michelle Matias]

And then if they are local, I do suggest that they come in and see me. So I give them the option and I would say it's about 50, 50. So with the in person sales I. I can't stress enough the importance of emails to set people up. So I have lots of email communication and just recently went through again and added a few more emails. Like I have 38 emails that clients get between the time that they sign up with me and the time that. Well a year later because I also have a year follow up email that I send, a six month follow up and a year follow up. So I have a lot of emails. I bet. Mac, remember I said I love communication. So over communicate a little bit. So hopefully by the time they get here they have a clear idea of how things are going to go. They get here, I offer them something. Same kind of thing. Like I'm not just like, let's just jump to it, show me the money. Like I'm not quite like that. We go through the photos, there's often big emotions. That's often when they try, you know, this release to see themselves. And then we go through, I'll ask them like, so what were you thinking that you would like now? I guess I should rewind and say I do offer prepayment as well as an option and they can prepay and so sometimes they'll prepay for. Often actually my smallest collection because they're not sure. Right. They're like, I don't know if I'm gonna like these. And then they'll upgrade.

[Nikki Klosser]

Then they do always.

[Michelle Matias]

So usually if they've prepaid, it's a little bit different because I'll say okay great, like we know you're gonna love eight of these because that's what you prepaid for. So I do follow like Sue's pricing like the 8, the 16, 25, 35. I have four collections and yeah, then I walk them through that and then we'll, we'll do like one pass of the images. I usually show them around 80 images.

[Nikki Klosser]

Oh wow. Yeah, that's quite a bit.

[Michelle Matias]

Well, I shoot like I love black and white but I also show them in Color. And I would say that. And there are some color photos on my website, and I would say people choose about half and half. Some people love my black and white, and some people love color. I have a lot of clients with a lot of tattoos. I have, like, you know, the colorful hair, and it's part of their personality. So even though I like black and white, I do offer it to them. And then usually after that first pass, they'll usually get it down to about half. And then we'll be like, okay. And again, I don't try and sell to them. I just say, okay, great, like, this is what you're trying to work with. Let's get it there. And sometimes they talk themselves into it, right? They're like, I don't think I'm going to be able to do that. Um, and so then I'll just meet them where they're at, as I always do, and say, okay, well, do you need my help to be more discerning, or what are you feeling? So again, just checking in with them. So that's basically how my sales go.

[Nikki Klosser]

So for the 8, 16, 25, 35. You said 24, 35.

[Michelle Matias]

Yeah, so it's actually, it's 7, not 8. I don't know why I said 8. It's 7. Yeah, 7, 15, 25, 35. Okay.

[Nikki Klosser]

What is it just the digitals that they're getting with that? Are they getting anything along with the digital? Are you just doing prints?

[Michelle Matias]

Yeah, they get prints. So I do. In my bottom two collections, it's matted prints. And I did. When I first found Super Ice, I had the reveal wall. And that honestly did help me sell because I was doing more in person sales in, like, here in my studio. But again, it's only 300 square feet, so I really wanted that wall space back. So once I got comfortable with that, I got rid of that. But absolutely, I. I see myself as an artist, and art should be enjoyed off a screen. So print and product is super important to me. The top two collections have albums, so they can. Well, so I have the four collections. The three come with matted prints. If they want, they can have an album in that third, like the top third. And then the top top package comes with a fancy album. And the.

[Nikki Klosser]

Ooh, what's a fantasy album?

[Michelle Matias]

Fancy. I said fancy.

[Nikki Klosser]

Fancy. Fant. If I know, I'm like, oh, so what? Depends on the client. What is the difference between the kind of fancier album and the other album?

[Michelle Matias]

Okay, well, I use the boudoir album here in Van or Vancouver. They're not Vancouver. They're in Toronto in Canada. And they have, you know, with the acrylic front and the image on the front, and it's just gorgeous. I also, for that top album, it's a larger size, so I usually do 8 by 10 for my albums. But if you get the top package, it's a 9 by 12. And I don't know, for me especially, maybe this is my design background. But 9 by 12 just feels like it has more of that editorial magazine feeling than 8x10, which is still nice, but in your hands it does feel different. So that's the difference.

[Nikki Klosser]

Okay, awesome.

[Michelle Matias]

Yeah.

[Nikki Klosser]

All right. So you had mentioned before, Michelle, that you aren't quite sure how, you know the clients coming from different parts of Canada or whatever, but how are you getting most of your clients? You know, what is your, I guess, top couple marketing strategies?

[Michelle Matias]

Yeah, I've really struggled with that over the years. I used to network like crazy a lot. I used to network a lot. I'm pretty outgoing. I don't mind networking, but I started to feel like the networking that I was doing was probably just not with the right. In the right spaces, lovely people, don't get me wrong. But maybe not the right type of connections. So I did a lot of BNI and local women's groups and things like that. And then I've run ads several times that have run completely.

[Nikki Klosser]

Facebook ads.

[Michelle Matias]

Yeah, Facebook ads, Google Ads. Spent a small fortune, especially on Google Ads. Ran completely flat for me. And more recently, really kind of tapping into who I am. Back to that. Why? Back to my. My values and honest people have been coming in every client that comes in. Because again, I'm not high volume that I'm like, oh my God, this person's amazing. You know, I'm looking at my assistant the whole time going like, sorry, I still can't get over that you're in my studio. Because I literally was just thinking about this kind of person and how I love to. And like here you are. Like the amount of love attraction sort of thing. Yeah, you know, I. I used to work in community development. When I started my business, I had a pretty strong business network anyway, so a nice flow of people. But of course your prices change. It's almost like you have to go through a cleanse. I would say 45% of my clients are either returning clients or referrals. So I get a lot of referrals through clients. Google. I do get a decent amount through Google just organically. I feel like when I was trying the Ads. And now I am running ads, but for different reasons. I can tell you about that in a second.

[Nikki Klosser]

Sure.

[Michelle Matias]

I feel like when I was trying ads before, I used the analogy of Cinderella stepsister trying on the glass slipper, right? She was trying on that damn glass slipper, hoping it was gonna fit, and guess what? It's not her size. And that's often how I felt because I kept doing ads. I kept seeing people around me being successful with ads and comparing myself being like, why are they so successful with ads? And, like, I can't get nothing. And I think it's also because of who I was attracting through those ads were not my people. You know, I. I really want to attract people that want to be more intentional, that want to work with an artist and create and commission me, not hire me. And so I started to just think about, like, where was I spending my time? Who am I talking to? How can I shift that up? And I know Felicia is, like, queen of networking and talks about that too. Like, where are you spending? So thinking a little bit more about that. So earlier in the year, I ran a workshop, and it was all about feminine embodiment. And I did it at a yoga studio. And it's like, well, why is a photographer teaching this? Well, I also am soon to be, like, officially feminine embodiment coach and want to work that into my work, my work as a photographer. So trying to talk to different audiences in different ways and not just coming in as a photographer, you know, I think is so important to stretch how people find you. And it's not always easy, Nikki.

[Nikki Klosser]

It's really great, right?

[Michelle Matias]

It's not easy. Like, and I think because I'm like, I'm not doing mini sessions. I sometimes felt like, super resistance. Like, I'm not doing this. No, not going. You can't make me do it. It is hard. And there has been times where I'm like, oh, sh. Can I swear on here.

[Nikki Klosser]

I mean, I do.

[Michelle Matias]

I was like, oh, I don't know.

[Nikki Klosser]

If everybody likes it.

[Michelle Matias]

Okay, good. I try really hard when I'm on podcast not to drop F bombs, because it's a thing.

[Nikki Klosser]

I know I do.

[Michelle Matias]

No, it's hard. It's hard to call in the right people because we can all find clients. I recently did run a sale, and I just found that the people that were coming to me through that sale were just, like, not the right fit. They just wanted something cheap. And I'm like, this doesn't align with me. I don't want to have to run campaigns and Sales. And I know that might seem like a big ego thing, that I'm an artist and I want to say stay true to that.

[Nikki Klosser]

No, I don't think it's an ego thing. I think it's a what works for you thing and where you want to place your energy. I mean, some people love campaigns. It's not something I've done or really want to do, but some people are super successful with it. Like, like we all get to pick and choose what works for us and try things. Like you said, the Glass slipper. Like we have to try things to decide whether or not it's going to work for us. And, you know, that's just part of it all.

[Michelle Matias]

Well, yeah, and I appreciate you saying that because I think there is so much rhetoric around the industry of like doing things. Things these ways because we've seen someone do it and we want to. We're stuck and we're trying to figure it out. But the best thing that was said to me earlier in this year is that just be yourself and be a bit louder at it.

[Nikki Klosser]

Yeah, yeah.

[Michelle Matias]

You know, and hopefully that will just start to call things in. I will say my number one thing that converts for me is my newsletter. I sent out an email. Yeah, email. That's my thing.

[Nikki Klosser]

Second person in a row to just say that. Oh, yeah, Yep. Judith Hill, who I believe was out two weeks before you or three weeks before you, she said the same thing. And I'm like, yes, that email marketing. So tell us about how you do it.

[Michelle Matias]

Yeah, email. So I said I'm still running an ad and what I'm doing right now is I'm running an ad to grow my email list. So I'm not running an ad to get bums in seats, so to speak. I'm running an ad to get people on my email list. And that's been going pretty well. Now, of course, that's a slow burning candle. Right. It's not fireworks.

[Nikki Klosser]

Right.

[Michelle Matias]

It's a slow burning candle and you have to have the patience and the long game. But I can tell you what I've noticed and I think this is why my clients come in and they're just so amazing and so aligned is because I've been developing that relationship with a lot of them through my email. I only offer sales now through my emails. I send four emails a month, so one every week. We send them on Tuesdays or Wednesdays and we write them in a way. And I say we because I have someone that works with me, Rebecca. She's amazing and she Helps me write them. I give her the ideas, and she. She just judges it all up and puts it in flodesk, which is what I use. And we run it like a conversation. Like, I don't sell a lot through my one email a month out of the four is a sales email. The other three are just tips. Not even about photography. Like, just, you know, I'm doing this embodiment coaching right now, so sometimes I'll be sharing, like, what I'm learning. And here's some cool things you might want to try for back to school that can help you feel grounded or that kind of stuff. And so I'm really showing up in that email as myself and my values and what I stand for comes through that way now. I used to have a Facebook group, and I just hated it. I hated always being on Facebook. I felt like I loved the group. I had 500 people in there, but I felt like I was just. I felt like a bit of a clown. You know, I had to go in there and dance around and be a court jester, and it didn't feel like an alignment work. Whereas with email marketing, I can just. We can just like write it all, you know, like, you know, it's like journaling.

[Nikki Klosser]

It is. It is. It is like journaling.

[Michelle Matias]

Yeah. That's how I approach it.

[Nikki Klosser]

Yeah. People like to hear those personal stories as well, as opposed to just like, you can't. I think it's very important to talk about how you can't just get this big email list and then sell, sell, sell. You have to nurture. You have to give them some things that are going to make them, you know, want to read more and learn more and then eventually book. And it might take lots of time. It's not a quick game. It's a. It's, you know, it's a.

[Michelle Matias]

It's a long run, but it's building that relationship.

[Nikki Klosser]

Right, exactly. Relationship building. Thank you. That was a much easier way to say what I just said. So when you. When you do that, selling email, can you give people an example of what that might look like? Like, is it. You know, just give us an example.

[Michelle Matias]

Yeah, sure. We ran a. We did a. Like a spring fling sale and we announced that in our email. And, like, I got four bookings right away.

[Nikki Klosser]

Sweet.

[Michelle Matias]

So I try not to do that often because I don't want to be like one of those stores that trains people that you have sales on all the time. But, hey, you know, we have been in a recession. The cost of living here is insane. I Don't mind throwing out a sale every now and then. And then even when I write about it, I'll often reflect on that, you know, and just being like, hey, hey, everybody's feeling a bit heavy, so come on into the studio and let's change that for you. So again, even when I run a sale, it's not like, buy now, come, you know, start the car fire sale kind of thing. I try and do it again with some intention and I feel like because you're warming people up again, it's the long game. It's not always like that. But I do feel like we get pretty good traction when, because people may have joined the newsletter. I will also say that a lot of my people on my newsletter respond to me. So if you're writing newsletters, I highly encourage you to ask people questions.

[Nikki Klosser]

Yes, agree.

[Michelle Matias]

And. And I won't even lie. People respond to me all the time. I get emails that say, I so needed that today. Thank you. I get emails that were like, oh, my gosh, I never even thought about that. Like that. Thank you. I get emails that are like, like, okay, celebrating that with you. That's amazing. Like, it's. It's pretty impressive how much correspondence I get through my newsletter. It's not, you know, obviously I have, I think, 700 people on my newsletter. I don't want 700 emails responding, but I do get a nice amount and it makes you feel good. You're like, wow, people are actually reading. They're reading it.

[Nikki Klosser]

Yeah. Yeah. And that said, I don't want people to think that every single person is going to open your email. I think it's like, if you get at, like, more than a 25% open rate, like, you're doing good or something like that.

[Michelle Matias]

Yeah. So I think the average is around 25 to 30. Our open rate, I was just looking last week, is around 63%.

[Nikki Klosser]

That's amazing.

[Michelle Matias]

So it's pretty high.

[Nikki Klosser]

Like, that's very high.

[Michelle Matias]

Yeah, it's pretty high.

[Nikki Klosser]

Yeah.

[Michelle Matias]

And then of course, you put like some links in there. Like, we will link to blog posts and things like that. We will link to things on my website, but we're not always like, bye, bye, bye. We don't get a lot of people clicking the links, like, moving through. But we do have a pretty high open rate, so that's exciting. And I think it's because we approach it through a conversational lens versus a selling lens.

[Nikki Klosser]

Yeah. Awesome. Very cool. This has been really great.

[Michelle Matias]

I do.

[Nikki Klosser]

I have one more question before I get to the end. How are you lighting? Like, are you using natural? Because I see a lot of natural light behind you if you're listening to this. Just so you know, this is. We are doing video podcasts now. I don't know if I've mentioned that yet, the last several video podcasts on YouTube. So. But I notice a lot of natural light behind you. So I'm just curious areas.

[Michelle Matias]

Well, you know what, when I designed this space, I didn't think that through. And so I have. On the opposite side of this room is where my backdrops are set up. So I use like hand painted backdrops. And this year I got two flat up backdrops and I love them so much.

[Nikki Klosser]

Nice.

[Michelle Matias]

Yes. And there is a sliding glass door over there. But hello, you lived in Seattle. You will know that the weather here, while it's beautiful west coast, best coast, and all of that jazz, is dark and gloomy a lot in the winter. So this natural light that you're seeing today may not be here in October. So I actually use profoto lights. I love lighting. I have three of them and in a photo shoot, I typically use almost all three every time. For me, lighting is just different. It's like having different paintbrushes. I love, I have lighting setups that I go to. But yeah, I love lighting very, very much. I have different modifiers that I use depending on what I want to do.

[Nikki Klosser]

And.

[Michelle Matias]

And yeah, that's part of the play for me anyway.

[Nikki Klosser]

Yeah, very cool. Yeah, that's great. And that's. It's nice to have. Yeah. God, for those gloomy days, whether it's constant light or strobe or whatever it is that people choose to use, having that is an absolute lifesaver on those days if you're a natural light.

[Michelle Matias]

Yeah. Well, I can shoot natural light with personal brand photography. When I go on location, I do bring one light and one umbrella. Super easy to pack up app. And you know, even when someone tells you that their office has amazing light, you get there. I'm sure we've all been there.

[Nikki Klosser]

You're like, yeah, oh, there's lots of yellow on the wall. You know, on the walls. Or like, yeah. And you're like, oh, cool. Yeah.

[Michelle Matias]

So I always bring a reflector and I always bring one light, one stand and one umbrella. And it really depends on the client. So if the client I feel like is more open to allowing me to play, then I will. But I do schedule in once a quarter a creative shoot where I'll invite a friend or someone I've worked with. Before, just to play and create just for the sake of creation. I highly encourage people to do that because it still keeps you connected with that artistry.

[Nikki Klosser]

Yeah, it's great advice.

[Michelle Matias]

Yeah. That's when I really feel like I get to dive into the. The fun that is lighting. And like people don't be scared of lighting, you know, I know it's a lot to learn. My tip, if you have a local college in your community. I feel like these local colleges are so easily forgotten about, but they often offer like a photography course and they have all the gear. Like it's cheaper than renting.

[Nikki Klosser]

Yeah, yeah, you can go take it.

[Michelle Matias]

I did. You can go take a course for like 200 bucks, spend six weeks, have all the gear at your fingertips and you'll start to really. Then you don't have to buy all the things and I don't know. That's what I did and it really helped.

[Nikki Klosser]

Yeah, that's smart. Very smart. Awesome. Well, thank you. Thank you for sharing all of that. This has been really, really great.

[Michelle Matias]

Yeah.

[Nikki Klosser]

But I do have the questions I always ask at the end of the episode and the first one is, what is something you can't live without when you're doing a photo shoot? Speaking of all the gear.

[Michelle Matias]

Oh, what is something I can't live without?

[Nikki Klosser]

Well, this doesn't have to be gear because I'm going to ask you.

[Michelle Matias]

Well, my answer isn't gear, so thank.

[Nikki Klosser]

Goodness because I didn't think it was.

[Michelle Matias]

Gear I can't live without. My studio assistant. Last summer I had a very sweet young lady who asked me for a summer job. She was 18 and she was going off to school to do dance school in New York. So she was saving up money for that. And I was like, I don't know what I could get you to do, but yeah, sure. Do you want us to step My shoes. I have a very small space. So I was trying to think of like, how am I going to fit another body in here? And I will tell you by the end of the summer, Nikki, I was like, please don't go.

[Nikki Klosser]

Who needs dance school? Stay with me.

[Michelle Matias]

Who needs New York?

[Nikki Klosser]

Come on. Right.

[Michelle Matias]

So when she left, I asked a friend of mine who is a stay at home mom that her kids goes to school with my son and was like, hey, do you want to work for me? Would you be interested? And she was like, what would I do? Same kind of thing. I was like, just come to my shoots, I'll walk you through what I do. And it has been revolutionary for me because I have a small space because things can get crowded if clients bring too much stuff or I am moving things from one side to the next side, depending on how I'm shooting. Honestly, it's just such a game changer. She helps me tidy up. So you asked me about my body and how I take care of my Ms. That having a. Having a studio.

[Nikki Klosser]

I can imagine.

[Michelle Matias]

Yeah. Because after I can just have a cup of tea, I can just sit down. I have a little bit of a ritual that I do after a shoot to, like, just reclaim my own energy and having that assistant help me through. Oh, my gosh. Game changer. Worth every penny. Everyone needs one.

[Nikki Klosser]

I agree. And it can help me focus on the things that I need to focus on, where if I'm missing that there's like a hair in the eye or on the lipstick or whatever, and she can jump in and just get that fixed or whatever. And, you know, it's everything from the physical part of it, of moving things and, you know, all of that down to just making sure that if they have a necklace on so many times I'm like, oh, yeah, it's crooked, you know, and then I have to find one where it's straight and replace, you know. So, yeah, yeah, game changer.

[Michelle Matias]

Everybody needs one. Yep.

[Nikki Klosser]

Okay. Number two is how do you spend your time when you're not working?

[Michelle Matias]

Okay, so I love the arts, and I love to go to the art gallery here in Vancouver. I recently joined a pop choir.

[Nikki Klosser]

Oh, that's fun.

[Michelle Matias]

So much fun. We sing publicly, so we sang on the art gallery steps recently. We sang at a beach recently. And we sing things like, like Beyonce and like, fun songs that you don't think choir sing. And we dance, and it's super animated. And for me, doing something like that, that was creative out of my comfort. I can't sing. Okay. I'm not a singer.

[Nikki Klosser]

I mean, I love that. Makes it 10 times better.

[Michelle Matias]

In fact, at the last practice, my friend beside me was like, I think you're singing soprano. Which I'm not a soprano. I'm a mezzo. I was like, oh, sorry. Because I was just hearing them and going along with it. But, you know, I think that just brings me so much joy and being in community with other people. Also, I don't talk about business while I'm there. I don't talk about my family while I'm there. I don't talk about any of it. I just go and it's my space. I also do artist dates with my friend that I was mentioning And I love to cook, so I've been spending a lot of time. My kid is a bookworm, so we go to the library a lot. And I've just been really exploring veganism, so just getting more into cooking and that kind of stuff. So.

[Nikki Klosser]

Yeah, fun. Sounds great.

[Michelle Matias]

Yeah.

[Nikki Klosser]

Awesome. All right, Number three is what is a, you know, some sort of photography product that you would recommend for photographers to have?

[Michelle Matias]

Okay. I think the easiest thing that everyone should have is a reflector.

[Nikki Klosser]

That's my answer too, for sure.

[Michelle Matias]

A reflector. And a big one. I. That my reflector is. I think it's a five in one. So it's the middle, acts like a scrim. And it's got gold. Gold and silver. Kind of mixed white. Yeah. I think that's all it has. Black.

[Nikki Klosser]

I think there's black on one side. It's like, oh, yeah, black, black, gold, white, silver. And then you can pull it off and there's a scrim. Or if you have the same one that I. Yeah, a five in one. Yeah.

[Michelle Matias]

Yeah. And mine's pretty big. In fact, sometimes I've had my assistants be like, do you still need me to hold it up?

[Nikki Klosser]

There are.

[Michelle Matias]

Because I used to shoot weddings and, you know, we're by the water here and a lot of people want to be by the water. And sometimes I needed that scrim. It helps you like a hot dam. Sometimes my clients will be like, what does that thing do? And I'll show them a before and after picture of one with a. With using the reflector, one without. I use it in my studio. If my assistant, for example, she is a stay at home mom. If her kids get sick and I can't have her. It's sometimes so sad. But I'll just put it on a light stand to bring people. I know I have three lights, but sometimes when I'm by myself, I don't want to bring out all the things. Sure. Just they're so cheap. They're like 75 bucks or something. I don't know. Everybody needs one. I have three. I keep one in the car, one in here. And then there's one probably lost somewhere else that I've left. But I just. Yeah. Cheapest thing, easiest thing, clamshell lighting. You don't need two lights. Use a reflector. There's so many things you can do with it.

[Nikki Klosser]

Yeah. Awesome. All right, Number four is. What would you tell people who are just starting out?

[Michelle Matias]

Price yourself sustainably. I did not see what you're doing as a business. I did not. I was always really connected to the art. I went to art school, was really connected to the artistry. And invest in a good business coach, you know, and know that every business coach will bring you different nuggets. I've had several. Right now I'm working with one that is not in our industry, so. And I, I've had great experiences from all of them, but I think that we are so scared to invest in ourselves and do that inner work. And I think getting a coach really does help guide you because don't follow the masses either.

[Nikki Klosser]

Yep, yep. Do what works for you. That's. Yeah, don't.

[Michelle Matias]

Yeah. If people are going right, go left.

[Nikki Klosser]

Yeah. And I, I, I'm a big encourager of that as well. All the though, tell me if you disagree or if I'm. But I feel like we don't have to recreate the wheel and all the things. Like, you are like, okay, I use a certain pricing model, but then you make it your own and you find ways to. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Michelle Matias]

You don't have to recreate the wheel, but you also don't have to feel like that's the gospel truth. Right. Like, there's only one way. Which is why over the years, I have had different business coaches, and some of them were not in alignment, even though I know they're at the top of their game in our industry.

[Nikki Klosser]

And.

[Michelle Matias]

Yeah, awesome. But that didn't work for me. So I also want to say, if you're listening and you're thinking about having a coach, you get to interview them. Don't just hire them because they're at the top of their game.

[Nikki Klosser]

Yeah, definitely.

[Michelle Matias]

You know, it's the same as when you're finding someone to help you with mental health. Like, don't. You don't just have to go to the counselor because your friend went to them, interview them, ask them questions, Think about what your needs are before you invest, not only in yourself, but in them. To.

[Nikki Klosser]

Yeah, I think that goes for shooting as well. Being a judge for the Portrait Masters Award, sometimes I'll see a photo and I'll think, wow, that looks identical. You know, down to the same, you know, type of person with the same hair as someone I know who took that same photo. And I know, like, we want to take inspiration from people. We all do it. But make sure you're making that your own. You know, it's like, like not only just, like, the services you provide in the business, but, but also with your.

[Michelle Matias]

Work, you know, so, yeah, so go to an art gallery. I think that that's another thing.

[Nikki Klosser]

Oh, yeah.

[Michelle Matias]

I think we are all looking at inspiration. I noticed this in weddings. You know, I shot weddings for five years. It was the same thing. Everybody looks the same. The hair is blowing in the wind, especially here, west coast, you know, and you're like, okay, well, what else can you do? And you get stuck in a funk and it's like. Because all you're looking at and it's. And it's not your fault. Like, you're taking in information all the time that looks the same. So go and look at something that might be different, that might not even be photography. Look at, like, the legends that have passed. Go to the library and look at art books, because I think then you're going to start to see different ways of, like, chiaroscuro, like, lighting and all this other kind of stuff that you're not seeing in the groups. Or maybe you are, but you're still recreating, right? I don't know. I think that we have to get out of our comfort zone.

[Nikki Klosser]

Yeah. Yeah. And that goes back to when you were saying doing a creative shoot once a month, you know, just for fun, where there's no client pressure, there's no one telling you what to do, you're styling it, you're doing it, and just. Yeah. So I love that.

[Michelle Matias]

Yeah. All right.

[Nikki Klosser]

Where can people find you online, Michelle?

[Michelle Matias]

So I'm at Mattea Studios. I have a website. It is MatteaStudios.com and I have a second Instagram, which is Matthias Coaching, which I talk more about my embodiment work there.

[Nikki Klosser]

Oh, good. Yeah. Great.

[Michelle Matias]

Yeah. And I. I mean, I coach photographers, but I work it in. I work in the embodiment piece. A lot of, like, self reflection. Before we get to the other juicy stuff that everyone wants to dive into, I want people to pause. So you can go to Matthias Coaching to learn more about that.

[Nikki Klosser]

All right, well, thank you again.

[Michelle Matias]

Aw, thanks for having me.

[Nikki Klosser]

Are you coming to this Portrait Masters this year?

[Michelle Matias]

No, I'm not coming to Portrait Masters this year. I have a lot going on with my kiddo and I just really wanted to. You know what? That is so important. And that was always an internal struggle. Not that I wanted to ditch. I mean, yes, sometimes we want to ditch them.

[Nikki Klosser]

Oh, yeah, yeah, that's true.

[Michelle Matias]

But back to school is a heavy time, and last year I was really missed during that time. So, yeah, this year it's all about him. Yeah, I'll be thinking of everybody I know. It's the last one this way, anyway.

[Nikki Klosser]

Yeah, we will be incorporating so much great portrait master stuff into wppi. I just got privy to lots of good information there. It's going to be amazing.

[Michelle Matias]

So. Okay. That's exciting to hear. Yes, I will miss seeing friends and I hope that you will have a fantastic time. Yeah.

[Nikki Klosser]

Thank you, Michelle.

[Michelle Matias]

Thanks for having me, Nikki.

[Nikki Klosser]

All right. Yeah, thank you. I'm sure I'll see you soon, maybe in March at wppi. And yay. Thanks again.

[Podcast Narrator]

Thank you so much for listening to the Portrait System Podcast Podcast. Your five star reviews really help us to continue what we do. So if you like listening, would you mind giving us a review wherever you listen? I also encourage you to head over to soubreiseducation.com where you can find all of the education you need to be a successful photographer. There are over 1000 on demand educational videos on things like posing, lighting, styling, retouching, shooting, marketing, sales, business and self value. There's Also also the 90 day startup challenge plus so many downloads showing hundreds of different poses. We have to do checklists for your business, lighting, PDFs. I mean truly everything to help make you a better photographer and to make you more money. Once Again, that's Sue briceducation.com.