Master Photographer & Educator Scott Robert Lim Teaches Us His Secrets! (Re-Release)

Summary

The Portrait System Podcast: Master Photographer & Educator Scott Robert Lim Teaches Us His Secrets! (Re-Release)
Host: Nikki Klosser
Guest: Scott Robert Lim
Release Date: May 14, 2025

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Introduction

In this compelling episode of The Portrait System Podcast, host Nikki Klosser sits down with Scott Robert Lim, a renowned photographer, speaker, and educator with over two decades of experience. Scott shares his extensive journey in the photography industry, his transition from wedding photography to education, and offers invaluable insights for photographers aspiring to elevate their craft and business.

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Scott Robert Lim's Journey in Photography and Teaching

Scott begins by reflecting on his early days in photography, highlighting the challenges and opportunities he encountered while establishing himself in California's competitive market.

Scott Robert Lim [03:31]: "I started actually teaching in 2003 on, oh, so 20 years blog. Yeah. And so at the time, I wanted to really get into teaching, but of course, nobody's asking me, so I go, you know what? I'm gonna just start online."

He emphasizes the importance of perseverance and self-initiative in building a teaching platform, noting how his early adoption of online education set the foundation for his future success.

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Transition from Wedding Photography to Educator

Scott delves into his transition from full-time wedding photography to becoming a dedicated educator. He recounts the moment he realized his passion for teaching and the strategic decisions that followed.

Scott Robert Lim [06:45]: "I honestly feel that the best educators are the ones who've had a full-time business for a while, not just like, oh, I made it for one year, now I'm going to start teaching."

He shares a pivotal conversation with his wife, where he expressed concerns about potential income loss due to shifting focus to teaching. Her support was instrumental in his decision to pursue education full-time.

Scott Robert Lim [14:23]: "I may lose about $80,000 next year... But she just wanted me sane, you know?"

This transition underscores the balance between professional passion and personal well-being, a theme that resonates throughout his career.

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Balancing Business, Teaching, and Family

Scott provides an honest portrayal of the challenges in balancing a thriving photography business, an expanding teaching portfolio, and a committed family life. He discusses the compromises and time management strategies essential for maintaining this equilibrium.

Scott Robert Lim [16:21]: "I have two different hats going, you know."

He highlights the importance of efficiency and setting boundaries to ensure that both professional and personal aspects flourish without compromising each other.

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Building a Teaching Career: Starting Small and Scaling Up

Scott outlines the strategic approach he took to build his teaching career, starting with smaller events and gradually moving to larger conferences. He emphasizes the significance of persistence and continuous self-improvement.

Scott Robert Lim [26:43]: "Don't count on that, actually, because it took me several years to crack the code and actually get in."

He advocates for creating personal events and leveraging these platforms to establish credibility, which eventually opens doors to larger speaking engagements. Scott also touches on the importance of developing a unique teaching style and building a sales funnel to attract and retain an audience.

Scott Robert Lim [22:10]: "Starting at that bottom... creating a sales funnel, basically."

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Becoming a Sony Artisan and Brand Ambassador

Scott shares his experience in becoming a Sony Artisan, discussing the strategic decisions and networking efforts that led to this prestigious partnership.

Scott Robert Lim [30:03]: "Use what works and what I like, you know... I go with Sony."

He explains how aligning with Sony not only validated his expertise but also provided opportunities to influence product development and expand his professional network.

Scott Robert Lim [32:11]: "If you could say 20 years ago, Scott, you're gonna be helping design the cameras of today... It's incredible."

Scott underscores the value of brand partnerships in enhancing credibility and creating mutually beneficial relationships.

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Effective Teaching and Presentation Tips

Scott offers practical advice on delivering engaging and impactful presentations. He emphasizes authenticity, passion, and the ability to simplify complex concepts as key elements of successful teaching.

Scott Robert Lim [37:59]: "The concept that you're teaching has to ring true to you and it has to be successful."

He also highlights the importance of rehearsing presentations extensively to ensure smooth delivery and the incorporation of humor and enthusiasm to keep the audience engaged.

Scott Robert Lim [39:38]: "If you can add some levity and just get people to laugh and enjoy life, that's huge."

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Q&A: Personal Insights and Recommendations

In the final segment, Nikki poses several questions to Scott, eliciting personal preferences and further professional advice.

1. Essential Gear Beyond the Camera

   Scott Robert Lim [49:16]: "Definitely lighting... any type of lighting. And then also an apparatus to diffuse that lighting."

   Scott emphasizes the critical role of lighting in portrait photography and recommends specific brands like Stella Reflex and Godox for their reliability and performance.

2. Time Management Outside of Work

   Scott Robert Lim [50:29]: "It's basically all to my family... when I do come home, concentrate on my family."

   He prioritizes family time despite a demanding travel schedule, highlighting the importance of personal relationships alongside professional commitments.

3. Unique Product Recommendations

   Scott introduces the "cheetah stand," a versatile and efficient lighting stand that enhances mobility and functionality during shoots.

   Scott Robert Lim [51:34]: "I cannot leave home without that cheetah stand."

4. Advice for Beginners

   Scott advises newcomers to seek mentorship from experienced photographers who have proven success in their field.

   Scott Robert Lim [52:59]: "Get a mentor... who has made at least a half a million dollars profit. Not gross, but profit in their business."

   He stresses the value of learning from seasoned professionals to avoid common pitfalls and accelerate business growth.

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Conclusion

Scott Robert Lim's insightful conversation on The Portrait System Podcast offers a roadmap for photographers aiming to transition into education while maintaining a successful business. His emphasis on mentorship, strategic networking, and authentic teaching practices provides a valuable blueprint for aspiring educators in the photography industry.

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Notable Quotes:

• Scott Robert Lim [06:45]: "I honestly feel that the best educators are the ones who've had a full-time business for a while."
• Scott Robert Lim [14:23]: "I may lose about $80,000 next year... But she just wanted me sane."
• Scott Robert Lim [22:10]: "Starting at that bottom... creating a sales funnel, basically."
• Scott Robert Lim [37:59]: "The concept that you're teaching has to ring true to you and it has to be successful."
• Scott Robert Lim [39:38]: "If you can add some levity and just get people to laugh and enjoy life, that's huge."
• Scott Robert Lim [52:59]: "Get a mentor... who has made at least a half a million dollars profit."

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This episode is a treasure trove for photographers aspiring to expand their horizons from capturing moments to shaping the next generation of artists. Scott's experiences and strategies provide actionable steps to navigate the complex landscape of photography education and business.

Transcript

[Nikki Klosser]

Hey there, it's Nikki Klosser and I want to let you know about an awesome free giveaway for people on our email list. If you haven't already, click the link in our podcast description or go to theportraitsystem.com signup to get on the list. If you sign up, you'll get a free posing 101 PDF to jumpstart things. It's an epic PDF, so you'll definitely.

[Scott Robert Lim]

Want to get this.

[Nikki Klosser]

Also, just by being in our email community, you'll get deals, sales and information about any of our upcoming events and activities. So head over to theportraitsystem.com sign up and and sign up Today you're listening.

[Scott Robert Lim]

To the Portrait System Podcast.

It's just about you creating your own programs, you getting out there, connecting with other smaller groups and making a name for yourself. So you know, I was speaking all over the place for about three years or four years even before I was on the radar of all these larger conferences.

[Nikki Klosser]

Welcome to the Portrait System Podcast. I'm your host Nikki Klosser and this show is here to help you succeed in the world of photography and business. To help you learn to become financially free, doing what you love and so much more. With over 1 million downloads, countless photographers have taken what they've learned from both our episodes and from theportraitsystem.com and they have grown their businesses, quit their day jobs and are designing a life of their dreams.

[Scott Robert Lim]

We keep it real and share stories.

[Nikki Klosser]

About the ups and downs that come with running a photography business. You'll hear real life stories of how other photographers run their business and you'll learn actionable steps that you can take to reach your own goals. Thank you so much for being here and let's get started.

[Scott Robert Lim]

My guest this week on the Portrait System podcast is Scott Robert Lim. Scott has been a well established photographer, speaker and educator for over 20 years now and we had such a cool chat. Scott was one of the speakers at our most recent Portrait Masters conference and he's actually been a full educator for a while now. It's interesting though because he still does portrait shoots and weddings for learning purposes so that he can continue to create and teach others how he does it. There are a lot of photographers out there who are interested in becoming an educator and Scott shares so much valuable information about not only what it takes, but how to make your way to the stage. If you're someone who has ever considered teaching or speaking about photography, this is definitely the episode for you. All right, let's get started with Scott. Robert Lim. Hi, Scott. Welcome to the Portrait System. How are you?

Hi. Glad to be here.

Hey. We got to see each other in person a couple weeks ago.

I know. I can't remember the last time. We kind of hugged and said hi.

And it's been a while.

Yeah, it's been a minute, but yeah. So glad to see you.

Yeah. That was at the Portrait Masters Conference. Scott, you were one of our amazing speakers on the main stage, and it was awesome. You always bring such great energy.

You know, that was my first time at the Portrait Masters, and I absolutely loved it.

Good.

And, you know, it was a little bit daunting coming up after sue, but I just had to stay in my lane and be who I am and just kind of go from there. But I think it worked out fine.

It was awesome. Super cool.

I had an awesome time, too.

Yeah. It's funny because I think the first time I heard of you was at WPPI, my very first WPPI, and that was in 2012. So you've been speaking for much longer than that too, though, haven't you?

Yeah, you know, it took me a little while to even get on to the WPPI platform and all that kind of stuff, so I had to kind of pay my dues and, you know, work a few years before. Then I'll come through. Not asking me. I'm better than these people. Other instructors, please ask me, you know, going through all that stuff. But I. I started actually teaching in 2003 on, oh, so 20 years blog. Yeah. And so at the time, I wanted to really get into teaching, but of course, nobody's asking me, so I go, you know what? I'm gonna just start online. And I was one of the first people to start teaching online in 2003 on a blog. Zanga.

Ah, interesting.

That's kind of like how I started. And then before I know it, I had, you know, this. This is way back in 2003. Right. I had like a thousand people a day, you know, looking in and from all over the world. And in 2003, that's like, oh, my gosh.

Oh, for sure.

All these people from China and everywhere, Europe are. Are coming in and commenting. I was just like, wow. Wow. I was just overwhelmed. I was in and felt so honored that people would want to, you know, read my blog.

I mean, you were like, one of the pioneers then of photography education.

I think so. You know, in the modern area era, of course. Like, when the Internet started, I was.

Well, yeah, online, I guess I should say. Yeah, yeah, yeah, Very cool. So, okay, you had mentioned something about how you had to kind of like pay your dues first and you know, you kind of have to have a business before you teach how to have a business or to be a photographer, you know. No. Am I wrong on that?

Well, you know what, it's like, I honestly feel that the best educators are the ones who've had a full time business for a while, not just like, oh, I made it for one year, now I'm going to start teaching. You know, like, I think you have to have a few years under your belt where you're a full time professional photographer, earning a living, you know, with your photography and then going from there. Because when you can earn, establish yourself. And you know, I always say like, if you've made at least a half a million dollars doing what you, you do, then that kind of qualifies you into teaching photography. Because also there's a lot of content that you can teach on just establishing your business and if you don't have that portion, then it's kind of like you're going to be a one trick pony. You're going to teach what you're famous for and then you're going to go by the wayside. So to have longevity, and I've been doing this for a couple decades or so, you have to be well rounded as a photographer and also have a thriving business or else, you know, you might not be in business.

Yeah, totally.

And you're out in the picture.

I feel like we're really in tune because when we were kind of chatting about, you know, what we were going to talk about, I mean you could literally talk about anything. But I was thinking like this, it might be good to talk about, you know, for people who are interested in becoming an instructor, maybe not right now, but down the road or for people right now, I mean, because I feel like, you know, when you've been a successful photographer for so long, sometimes you want to change things up. And one way that you can change things up is to become an educator. So I was like, huh, we haven't really talked about that much. Like would you be interested? And you were like, well, as a matter of fact, I've been toying around with like maybe doing a workshop about that. So that's perfect. And then what you just said. So I literally, we just sent out an email on the Portrait Masters email list. I've kind of do, I'm like sending out like tips and tricks and things like that through the email list and I literally Just sent one out. What's today? Let's see, today's. Okay, a couple days ago. So like, September 25th. No, the 23rd. No, 24th. September. Yesterday.

Ooh, yesterday.

Yesterday. And it was Talking about my 300 square foot studio that I had and then some social media stuff, but. And in it I say that I made $500,000 in three and a half years in my 300 square foot studio. So as soon as you said if you make $500,000, I'm like, well, good, I qualify. Here I am educating. So, you know, but that's funny that you just said that. And literally yesterday I just. An email went out to the portrait Masters list and I talked about that. So that's funny.

Wow. We're totally in sync here.

Totally. Okay, so, but before we get into just being an instructor and like, what it takes and what you do and how to get there, what was your business like before, you know, before you even started teaching?

Yeah, well, I'm from California, and really there's very limited ways to make money in California with your photography. And at the time it was mostly wedding photography. Everybody in California is a transplant. And so family photography and stuff like that just doesn't exist because your family's not even here. You know, it's like your family's in another country or it's just different states and.

Little bit harder.

Yeah, yeah, there's a bunch of transients.

In California, I'm assuming, though. Different. It's probably different from city to city. I feel like some of the northern towns, like California, smaller towns or whatever, you know, I don't know, Sacramento or.

More rural places, you probably can establish some things, but in general, like if you're talking Los Angeles area and San Francisco area, where there's a lot of people, generally it was mostly wedding photography at the time. We're talking 20 years ago too.

[Nikki Klosser]

Right.

[Scott Robert Lim]

Of course, Sue Brice changed all that. And see, before Sue Brice, you know, being a wedding photographer was like, oh, the thing to be, you know, and so that was the hot thing to be as a wedding photographer. So that's how I started. And then so I learned everything from there because with wedding photography, you have to kind of do it all very quickly too. And I just kind of learned my methods from that. It was a great training ground to go into other things.

It's so true. Cause you are. You're photographing families. You are. Like, I've said this before, I hope I don't sound like a broken record on this podcast, but I mean, you have to be on the fly. Like, you have to be lighting in all situations. I mean, you can walk into some like super badly, horribly lit reception or hotel room. Like, I remember days and I'm walking in, I'm like, here we go. Like, you know, you just. But you have to know what to do. I mean, you're posing groups, you're posing couples, you're posing individuals, you're doing candid's. Like, it is a great education to be a wedding photographer.

It definitely is. And I just, you know, some people, like, are afraid to tell people that they were a wedding photographer. But actually I feel like wedding photographers are some of the best photographers in the world because of just the training. And we have to just learn how to do everything and deal psychologically with, oh my gosh, the bride and the mother in laws and the coordinators and juggle that timeline.

Yeah, the timeline and the weather. And when you're like, oh, I get three and a half minutes to do couples portraits and it's raining outside, like, awesome. You know, it's. It's not for the faint at heart.

No.

Oh, man, I make it sound so bad. Like, it's, you know, I enjoyed it for a while. It wasn't like, you know, and there are people out there who truly love it. But. So is it something that you felt like you absolutely like, loved and did for a long time or what? You know, how did you kind of progress into your business?

Yeah, so I shot my first wedding around 2000. And from that, when I shot that first wedding, I go, finally. And I was around 38 years old or so.

Okay. Yeah.

I had been searching and searching to, you know, hang my hat on something. And then when I shot that first wedding, it's like, boom. My life exploded on me because I finally, for the first time ever, I felt this is where my skill set is. This is what I could do and this is where I can make a career out of this. And it was just life changing on that first wedding.

Wow, that's pretty awesome. So, like, from there, are you, are you someone who was doing like, you know, 30 weddings a year and just like constant? I mean, I guess in California it's not quite as seasonal for weddings as it is where I'm in, you know, in Michigan or in Seattle, where I started shooting. Like, how did, how did all that work?

Yeah, I mean, generally, I think for, you know, I would say good eight months out of the year you're shooting weddings, it might slow down a little bit, you know, in the winter Months, but you still might get one once a month. But yeah, I was full time weddings, you know, shooting anywhere from, you know, 20 to 40 weddings a year and just going at it for a long time for, you know, a good five, seven years consistently. And then I started transitioning myself into teaching.

Yeah.

And here's, here's what people don't really tell you about teaching. I remember this story. I was trying to do both, right. I was trying to do my wedding photography, which took up a ton of time. And then trying to put your curriculum together for your teaching and kind of put your teaching concepts down and work through them. That also takes a ton of time too, if you want to do it well. And it's like you can't do both. And so there came a certain point in my career where I literally had to choose whether I was going to kind of continue with my wedding photography, which provided all my income, or switch over. Because here's the one thing. When you go into teaching, you got to be available for all the dates somebody asks you to teach. And if you have a wedding booked, every single one of those weekends somebody asked you to teach, sometimes they'll never ask you again, especially when you're first starting out. So you have to kind of clear all those dates and then another.

That's a really good point.

Yeah. And here's another thing. I remember specifically talking to my wife and I said, listen, I've done wedding photography for a while. I've been really doing well with it, but I really want to go into teaching. However, I may lose about $80,000 next year.

P.S. honey. Yes.

By the. I'm not going to be making as much money. And like, you know what? I have a great wife. And she goes, you know what, I'm glad you decided because you just been a pain in the butt all these times. You know, you're, you're very short with the kids. You're like always grumpy. You're like, you know, because I'm trying to do too much. And she just wanted me sane, you know?

Yeah.

And like that was worth more than the money. And you know what? We, we found a way to make it work. And fortunately I didn't really see a drop in my income and just kind of went off from there.

Yeah. That's awesome. You know, it's. I always think about this because I do mostly personal branding with some high school seniors and I do personal branding mostly in studio, some on location. But one of the reasons I left weddings is because of the weekend. The weekend and evening thing, you know, I have to add two babies, you know. Well, okay. After I had my first baby was when I decided I am d O N e done with weddings. But there's something about, like, portrait photography that really can open your world to doing other things as well. Because it's not meaning education and teaching, because it's not weekends. I don't have. I don't ever have to work a weekend doing a shoot if I don't want to, you know, so. So there's that element of it, too.

That's true. However, if you were to speak at camera stores and events.

Okay, yeah.

So, yeah, conferences. A lot of times it is over the weekend. But, you know, I always tell people, it's like, you know what my schedule is like a fireman.

Yeah, right.

Where you're kind of like four on, three off type of feeling. And so it would be generally every other week I'm traveling somewhere for a few days.

Okay.

But the rest of the time I'm home. You know, I've been to every single volleyball game of my daughter, you know, cross country match, my other daughter. And I'm like. I would tell my wife, I'm like, look it, there's not very many times where you see both parents there at the games watching their kid. And we were able to do that and spend time during those times. Although, you know, I did miss some birthdays and stuff like that on the weekend. But you've got your choices and sacrifices.

It's such a balance. It's such a balance. And I want to. Okay, one more quick thing. Sorry, I keep bringing it back to me. One more quick thing. And then I want to hear about so much of what you just said. But at the Portrait Masters Conference, I actually left a day early because the Portrait Masters Conference has always been Sunday, Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday. I would take the red eye home Wednesday night. And then we always. My family, annual family camping trip. All my aunts, uncles, cousins, we have an absolute blast. It's one of my favorite times of the year. We all camp together. And it always butts up to the Portrait Masters Conference dates. Well, this year it was Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday. And we already had the rv. We had everything booked starting Thursday. And I was like, sorry, sorry, peeps. I love y' all, but I gotta go. Like, I have my family, I have my family camping trip I gotta get to, you know, so I was able to be there. I got there Sunday, Monday, Tuesday, flew home Wednesday. So I got to do the gist of it. But it is. It's a balance. And you always picking and choosing, like, what, you know, what you got to do in that moment.

I had to leave a day early, too. I didn't want to, but I had to leave a day early from the Portrait Masters, too, because I had another family event where I was taking my daughter to college and they had the family weekend thing. And so, yeah, it just happens sometimes.

Yeah.

Especially if you have a family. See, that's. Yeah, that's the thing. You could slay it if you're single. Right. Here's what I always say. It's like, okay, you're single, you got a hundred percent of your time in extra. You could go 110%. I mean, you could work 80 hours, 100 hours a week, and you're fine. Then you're in a relationship, there goes 50% of your time. Then you have kids, cut that in half. Have another kid, cut that in half again. And so, wow, you really got to be efficient with your business and balance everything out. Going. Speaking my language, especially if you want to start a family. So you have to remember that. And that's a big learning curve.

Yeah, yeah, definitely. Well, okay, so you said a couple. One thing that really jumped out at me that you said was, you know, if you want to speak at camera stores and. What did you say? You said camera stores and something else, but it never come to me, like, okay, yeah, events. That's what I meant. Yes. And I've always thought about speaking at, like, you know, I've spoken at wppi. I got to speak in New Zealand. It ends at IPP and Portrait Masters, but that's pretty much it. Like, I've never jumped into some of these other avenues for teaching. So I'm curious, like, can you kind of lay out all of the different teaching opportunities and then from there we can talk about how people get into it? But let's.

That's a good question. Yeah. Because, you know, when you first started it, of course you want to speak at the big conferences like WPEI and Imaging usa. And then you. Let's say you happen to get a chance to speak at those, then you go realize, well, if I'm going to do this for a living, it's not like they pay you a hundred thousand dollars to speak at 1.

No, no, no. Let's say we don't get paid a.

Whole lot of that. And when you start out, or even less, maybe, or for free, even. So you go, okay, if I'm doing this for a living. Wait a second, I gotta fill up my schedule. I just can't have these two events. And so that's what I did is I filled it up with actually one. Do your own events. I think that's the first thing. Well, you got to develop a following first and then start doing your own events and filling up your schedule. And then from there you can reach out to, you know, there's a whole ton of things. There's camera stores out there, there's professional photography organizations, right?

Oh, yes. Like ppa. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yep. I've done a couple of those here in Michigan. I forgot about that.

Yeah. And even online, they have larger events and they have meetup groups. I mean, right now there are so many. I mean, before when I started, there was nothing, but now there are so many groups out there and they're kind of looking for instruction, too. And just actually, even I. Probably the most popular of kind of workshops you could do is just basic photography.

Yeah, that's a really good point.

That's where the base of the people are when you're going to try to teach professionals. Kind of like the portrait map masters, like, you're gleaning from the top, you know, 1, 2% in the country. And that's kind of hard to fill up a workshop or a convention from those who are professional photographers because actually that's the very top, and there's less people there. So you got to start down lower where the base of people are, which are mostly hobbyists. And then kind of what I do is I kind of teach on a broader sense. And then kind of funnel up, and you're creating a sales funnel, basically.

I love that.

Starting at that bottom.

I love how you said that, like, building up a funnel. But something you said before, that was you have to kind of build a following. But something that I noticed, Scott, that. And I'm guilty of this. I did this at the beginning when I first started, too, and I don't know why. I think I was just watching my favorite photographers speak to other photographers. So I remember, like, writing a blog on my camera strap or my whatever, and it's like, who was I. Why was I trying to talk to other photographers at that time? Like, I think sometimes newer photographers will talk to other photographers when they should be speaking to clients. And I think I heard sue say that, like, stop talking to other photographers. And I was like, oh, shoot, I am doing that. And as soon as I, like, this was like my, like, first year. I'm not even kidding. I don't know why I was doing that. And Then as soon as I switched over to only speaking to my clients and marketing to my clients and whatever, my business, like, I really like, my business really started blowing up more. So. But, like, when do you start to make that transition? I guess from speaking to your clients to speaking to other photographers, or can you do both?

Well, that's where the half a million dollars comes into play. It's kind of like when I feel like, yeah, you've established your business, then you can kind of give to other photographers because you've been there and done that. But if you haven't done that yet, I kind of feel like, well, then maybe you should come down a level and just kind of teach beginning photography and things like that to hobbyists and things like that.

For sure. Okay. You know, I'm like, doing a dance with both things because I still have a photography business that it's not, you know, I'm doing like half the time that I. Than I. What I used to, you know, I do, like three shoots a month or whatever, and I used to do 8 to 10. So. So I'm still speaking to clients, but I also. I am an educator and a teacher, and I do the podcast and all that. So I'm always trying to, like, keep the attention of everyone. Like, I don't want my clients to get super annoyed if I'm only talking to photographers, but I don't want photographers to get annoyed if I'm only talking to clients. Although photographers can learn a lot by watching a successful photographer speak to their clients. So I don't know.

Yeah, kind of a dance. You're kind of in that space where I was, where I kind of made a decision on going one way and really getting into it. But there might be people out there that love still doing both or just, you know, you have a certain guaranteed income just staying with your business. But I, you know, but for me, I really had a passion towards teaching, and for me personally, like, that was my giftedness. I mean, I have more of a passion for educating than I do for photography. I mean, to me, the only reason why I want to take an amazing picture is to teach that concept.

Yeah.

So it's not about me winning the award now or doing this now. It's like, I want to take a great picture and so I can teach that concept to other photographers.

Oh, I like that.

My passion is the teaching and not necessarily the photography.

Got it. Got it.

But I'm. That's me. And everybody has to figure out where, you know, there's so many hats that we wear.

Yeah.

Where that is. But for me, I knew that was it. That was like, this is what I want to do.

Yeah.

[Nikki Klosser]

Hey, just a quick break to tell you that since you're here listening, you have access to a really great offer. Offer for our listeners only. We have a special promo code you can use to get 50% off the cost of membership. Just go to theportraitsystem.com or click the link in the description and use the promo code PODCAST50 to get 50% off of a membership. We rarely discount membership, so this is a big deal. As I hope you already know, the membership is how I and so many guests on this podcast reached our success. And it gives you access to countless amazing videos, videos, an awesome community, and all the tools you need to build a massively successful business. So use the code podcast50Now to join the community and to start building the business of your dreams. I'll see you there.

[Scott Robert Lim]

How does someone even get started? Like, if, if you. Obviously you can submit. So, for example, wppi, which is going to be wppi and the Portrait Masters next year for the conference, we're going to be having events for both. It's going to be incredible. Of course you can apply, but what if, like, they say no or, you know, like, is it better to start somewhere smaller and then build your way up?

Don't count on that, actually, because it took me several years to crack the code and actually get in. And you can submit every year. Right. But that's not the end all be all, really. And it's just about you creating your own programs, you getting out there, connecting with other smaller groups and making a name for yourself. So, you know, I was speaking all over the place for about three years or four years even before I was on the radar of all these larger conferences. In fact, I was more. I was accepted in Canada first, you know, and their professional photography organizations, organizations before I got accepted in America. So I love the Canadians.

You're like, go Canada. Yeah, okay.

And put me in front of a lot of their kind of more national organizations and conferences. And then from there I kind of work my I way in. Yeah, but you gotta.

That probably gave you the street credit that you need to.

Yeah, yeah, you got to. You got to just. It's not going to happen overnight. And I always had this saying, it's like, you know, it takes you 10 years of hard work to be an overnight success, right? It's like, yeah, it can happen overnight, but you have to be ready to step through that door when you get that opportunity just like when I was asked to speak on Creative Live way back in, what, 2013. But for three years, I was speaking every other week on the material that I presented at Creative Live. So when I went on Creative Live, I mean, every. I knew every sentence I was gonna say. I knew every sentence that was gonna get a laugh. You know, I knew what resonated with the people because I had been practicing that program for three years before I got that opportunity. You don't wanna go on the say WPPI and totally screw up and not. And this is the first time I'm presenting this material, this lecture, you know, on the biggest stage. You don't want to do that. So that's why you gotta put your work in and just teach wherever you can. And even if it's for free, you gotta do it, you know, you just gotta practice, practice, practice.

Yeah. It's almost like I know I did multiple free shoots. I still do sometimes just for fun and just to be creative, to build my portfolio. It's like you kind of have to build your speaking portfolio, you know, sometimes that means doing it for free.

So you have to galvanize your concepts, too. And you just can't regurgitate things other people have said. You have to come up with your own philosophies, your own style, your own signature style, the way you do things, the way you do your business, and because everybody's unique out there and. And you kind of had to find your lane.

Yes.

You know, just not spit out stuff that everybody else is spitting out.

Yeah, I love that. So when did you become a Sony artisan? Like, was that, I mean, basically an ambassador for Sony? Like, was that prior to starting all these speaking things or after.

It was kind of concurrently. It was probably around 2000, 2010, 2009. And at that time, I mean, you were a joke. If you use Sony as a professional, people laughed at you. But really? Yeah.

And so I'm not a techie, so I'm like, sweet. So, like, I had no idea. I'm just so, like, la, la, la. Use what works and what I like, you know, it's ridiculous to me that someone's gonna, like, I don't know.

Yeah. Oh, that's another thing is, like, brands, like, if you're associated with certain brands, they can kind of help you get jobs too, and opportunities. And so in my mind, I wanted to be a master educator and regarded as one of the top in the world. Right. So I go, I got to have a camera brand behind me. I'm just this little old person, you know, doing my thing. And I go, well, let's see, at the time, I mean, we're talking, you know, 15 years ago, right? Nikon was there and Canon was there, and that was it. And so if I was going to try to be a Nikon ambassador or Canon ambassador, you know, I was way, way, way down low on the list. They don't even know who I am, so how am I going to break through that? Right? And so here was Sony that I had met speaking at the Texas School, which is a huge convention every year. And I had met Sony and they were dying to, like, have ambassadors. And I go, here's my moment. I'm going with Sony. I had read some articles about Mirrorless, and I love their direction and love what they bring in, and they have a big name. I'm going to go for it, even though people are laughing at me right now using it. But this is a camera brand that's accepting me and I can go from there. And maybe if it doesn't work out with Sony, at least I could use that as a launching pad to go to another brand.

And now look at Sony.

I know. And so, like, hey, man, I hit it. I hit the lottery with that one. And I mean, if you would have told me honestly, like 20 years ago, Scott, you're gonna be helping design the cameras of today. I was.

Oh, my gosh.

Kidding. Right?

How cool is that?

Yeah, just, you know, like, oh, my gosh. Like they engineers actually want my input. Right. It's like, oh, my gosh, I just can't believe how far you can go. Just putting one foot in front of the other and staying with it. You'll be amazed on how far, you know, you can go with your photography and the industry.

It's incredible.

Yeah, that's been a blessing. So, you know, of course, being aligned with Sony and then Sony, you know, sells their gear at camera stores. And so if you reach a certain levels, of course Sony is going to ask me to sell speak at different camera stores because I. I use there. And so that's another avenue to book events and gigs and things like that. But that's. Yeah, I mean, again, like, there's only around 30 artisans in the entire country. So if you think of all the photographers in the world and then you're like, top 30, that's really hard to do. But what I always say is you get mentored. Right. So I've actually pushed through a couple artisans that I've mentored because I just Dropped their name to the, the powers that be. Right. And so that's the value.

Working piece. Yeah, yeah.

So that's the value of being mentored by somebody who's at a higher level than you. They can open doors. I can open doors for people that have taken me literally a decade to open and I can just flip them on to my mentorees immediately. Right. That's the power.

You earn that. Yeah, yeah, it's pretty cool.

So I don't care how much money you pay, like towards a coaching program or a mentoring program, if that person is very influential and you like their style and everything, because they could turn it around and open all these doors for you that would take you a decade.

Oh yeah, for sure. And I don't want people to think that they can, you know, they only should be looking for partnerships or whatever with these, the big name camera brands. Like there's so many other, like go to these conferences, go to the trade shows, like, start talking to the people behind the, the desk there, you know, behind the table. And if it's a product, that's what I did, sincerely, truly love.

You know what I started with? Here's how I started. Of course you can't just like walk into the Sony booth and say, hey, I want to be ambassador. Oh, sure, yes. Now what do I have to do.

To become a. Yeah, yeah, that's a.

One in a million chance. So what I did was I started with the album companies and I started with something that they need, they always need imagery. Right. And I had won several, multiple, multiple awards with my imagery through WPPI and whatever. And so I knew that my imagery was at a certain level. I just offered my, hey, do you guys need any imagery for your albums or whatever here, go ahead and use whatever you want. And that's how I got in. And some of my first sponsorships were through like printing and album companies. And that's a very, to me, low hanging fruit because they're always looking for photographers and any worst case scenarios like, hey, you might get a free album out of it.

Yeah, yeah. Your work will get, you know, be out there, someone might notice it or.

You know, so I started there with vendors and then kind of worked my way up and you know, smaller companies. And then, you know, I was just, you know, so I work with different lighting companies too. And I was just walking around and you know, of course to the portrait masters, Godox was there and so they pulled me aside. They already knew who I was. Right. I'm like, Godox is probably the Number one flash company in the world and they wanted to stop and talk to me. You just never know. But it's got to start somewhere you can't start. I think that's what I want to tell people because they're always like, oh, how do you become a Sony artisan? And it's like, I don't want to say good luck, my friend. It's going to be nearly impossible. But you know, you got to start low and go to these, there's hundreds of other vendors and the best place to meet them are like you said, are like at these conventions because a lot of times they send networking people or they send the CEO or the, you know, business owner of that lighting manufacturing company and you're directly talking to the owner. Whereas if you were to try to email them, there's no way they're going to even answer your email. But if you get a face to face with them. I made. So that's why I go to everything. It's like people ask me, oh, are you going to go to this? You're going to go to that? I go, yeah, I go every year and I go to network and I go to meet other vendors and try to, you know, make myself available, introduce myself because they can help me get other events.

Yep, yep. Okay, let's shift gears. You know, you had said that the first time you did like a, you know, a big online course or whatever, you had perfected it, you know, you'd practice it, you'd done it like. And I know you've been on countless stages and done countless presentations since then, but what's the recipe for you for a really good one? Like, I've sat through a lot and some are really great and some I'm like, ugh, you know. Yeah, like what, what are like the elements there that you would suggest to people that they have really have to include and maybe some things to stay away from.

I think the first thing is, is that that concept that you're teaching has to ring true to you and it has to be successful. And a lot of people just regurgitate things that they've heard and it's not, they don't live that technique. And so for me, I live it, I use it. And if it doesn't work for me, then I'm not going to present it on stage. And so that comes into practicing, getting out there, using it. So one, you have to have techniques that you own and that you do and that you have a particular way to do it that's different than other People, and it helps you arrive to the solution a lot easier or a different way of thinking. And so I know for a fact, like, my giftedness is to take something complicated, like flash photography on location and bring it down to a ABC or a 1, 2, 3 steps, and boom, there it is. So I know that that's what my giftedness is because I'm not a. I feel like I'm not like a genius. I have to figure things out and make things simple for me to use it in the real world so that that's. I know my lane, right? And then on top of that, you have to have passion and enthusiasm about what you're teaching on stage, which you do.

And, yeah, obvious on stage. Love it.

And so, like, you know, I would, like, do these presentations, and sometimes I literally would like when I do a WPPI presentation, for example, there would be people standing in line waiting maybe 45 minutes to talk to me, right? Which is insane. I like, wow. And then I would always ask them, well, then why did you like, what did you like about my presentation? And a lot of times they just say, man, I love your passion. And I would hear that more often than not. And so if you can get excited about a teaching concept or whatever, other people can be excited about it too, and they can see that. And so I think that's part of it. The third element is I think I have add and it's hard for me to concentrate on things. And because of that, my presentations are kind of sped up and I got a lot of things going, and that helps to keep it moving and not stagnant in one area. And adding a little bit of humor in there with your presentation goes a long ways because you are an entertainer, too. So that's what I feel like. When you're on stage, you're an entertainer, and whether you're going to attain by content or jokes or. Or different concepts or a new idea, but you're still an entertainer. And so you gotta remember that. And if you can add some levity and just get people to laugh and enjoy life, that's huge.

That's exactly right. It's interesting because when I think about how I do these podcasts, I mean, I know I'm not, like, up on stage speaking, but, you know, it's a form of education. And I would. The three things I always try to achieve, it's kind of exactly what you said. It's entertaining, inspiring, and educating. Like, that's what I'm trying to pull out of my guests that I have you know, you're teaching something, you're entertaining a little bit and you are inspiring people. And it's, it seems like it's, I mean, it's a pretty awesome recipe.

Yeah, it works. And I think a lot of people, I don't know, they just so excited about teaching that they don't develop their own kind of style first or.

Yeah.

You know, or just have enough experience speaking in front of people. And I think you've got to do it over and over and over. So when you do get the big break at WPPI or whatever or the portrait Masters, that you're gonna go on there and kill it.

Yeah, yeah.

And even if you're making a mistake, learn how to get out of it while you're teaching it on stage.

Yeah. Or maybe like own it too. I know if I mess up, I'm like, so I just messed up. Like totally just mess that one up.

Let me try that again.

Or whatever, you know, because then it's like if you own it, they can't come back and say like, oh, Nikki, like totally fuck up. You know what I mean? It's like, I don't know.

Yeah, just be yourself. And I think that's like the thing about practicing. It is practice, practice, practice, because you're going to kind of eliminate the mess ups when they do come. But if they do come, you're so skilled that you know how to work around it and move forward with it. So experiences. So just get out there and start doing it even if it's in front of two people. Whatever. You know what I mean? You're just practicing and developing your craft.

Yeah. And so now, so you have a, your full time business is teaching, educating, like the whole speaking circuit. Yeah.

I even, I even turned my weddings into workshops. Yeah. So I'll get asked my own wedding. So I'll get asked to shoot a wedding. Right. And what I'll do is I'll give them a great price and then I'll say, will you allow me to bring a couple assistants on and so forth. Sure. Bring as many people as you want. And so then I will probably limit it to two or three people. And I say, how would you like to shoot a real wedding with me? And you can see like how I do it, how I talk to the people, all that kind of stuff. You could even use the imagery for your own portfolio at my wedding. And actually if they even press me and let's say we only have like three minutes to shoot the bride and groom and they say, Scott, I didn't get that angle or whatever. I will give them my imagery and say, here, go ahead, just use it in your own own portfolio if you need it.

Yeah, I don't care. Then they are paying you to be part of shooting this way.

Yes. So everybody wins. So yeah, the client wins because they're getting a reduced price. My. And then that's what I always wanted and nobody would do. I mean, like when I was first starting out, it's like, I wish I could shoot with some of the top wedding photographers in the world. That's not going to happen. And so now I make it available for people to do that. And I'll usually reach out individually to people or I'll be at another workshop where I've meet them and I feel that it's a good fit. Then I'll kind of like personal. Yeah, it's kind of like a personal invitation because I just can't bring anybody to these Wendy's weddings that I don't know.

Right.

So. But I even turned that into learning experience for people.

Yeah, that's great.

And I hate being say, oh, I teach wedding photography but don't shoot weddings. Like I don't want to be one of those. So I've always. So I shoot maybe, I don't know, four to six weddings a year still, but it's not my main business.

Right. That's a really, really, really smart thing to do. And you know, I think once you reach a certain level, like I get people who ask me like, can I come help you and your studio? Can I assist you during a shoot? And I always, you know, mostly I say no because I'm like, gosh, this is my, you know, it's kind of a more of an intimate one on one shoot. And I can't be teaching while I'm with my client. Like I have two different hats going, you know. Yeah, I don't know. But.

But just observing you is a learning experience in itself.

Yeah, it is.

And just observe you, which people would like, even how to set up the lighting or whatever. And you can always have a recap afterwards.

Right, right.

And so that's what I do. It's like, hey, listen, don't really ask me while I'm talking to the bride a question. Like we can talk about it during downtime or the next day or at dinner afterwards or something like that, but not, I'm in my zone, like, don't bother me, help me, don't bother me.

Yeah, totally. And it does, it takes a certain amount of energy in addition to Shooting because, like, I am giving my all to my clients. Just like I know you, you know, and so it does when you're teaching someone else in the meantime and someone's there watching, like, and then you're recapping and all that. I never thought to charge for that. Like, that's kind of smart. Like, I'm just thinking for people out there who have others saying, hey, can I come watch you or assist you or whatever. Like, maybe there, maybe there's something to that. And letting the client know, just like you did. Like, hey, I'm gonna reduce your price a little bit if you allow my student to come in.

You don't even have to do that. You don't even have to reduce your price if you don't want to. Because they don't want to.

I thought you said that's what you did.

I do that because, like, you. But you don't have to, right?

If you don't want to.

But I do it.

Yeah. Yeah. That is kind of a win win where you're getting compensated. Not that I don't like giving people, you know, I'm an open book for sure. But there's only so much you can do without being compensated before it starts to, like, wear on you.

You know, here's a good point that I tell people, just getting started. Like, let's say you're getting really good at something and then people are going to be constantly asking you how to do this, what you do that, what is it? And then I say, hey, just develop a workshop. And so you're not saying no to them, but you point them to that. So when they ask you, oh, how to do this, just go, hey, sign up at my workshop. That's next month. Right? And so that way you don't want feel like people are taking advantage of you and you're just giving this free information that you've been developing over the last five, six, 10 years. And it's like for you just to hand it over, that's like handing over all your secrets to your business right now. If you're going to pay me for it, then, hey, I can kind of live with that. Because you are telling, you know, your trade secrets that you've developed over years and years and years, that's work something. You just like, don't throw that out there to anybody. So I always say, have a workshop available or, or workshops that you can just send people to if they do ask those types of questions.

Yep, smart, smart.

And so that way you're monetizing on the audience that's being attracted to you, you just kind of funneling them up to another type of revenue stream that you've created.

I love it.

It's all part of the funnel.

Mm. Well, this has been super helpful, Scott. Thank you. It's not really something we've talked too much about, and I know there are a lot of people who are ready to kind of take that step, so I'm glad we covered it all. Appreciate it. But I do have questions that I always ask at the end of each episode, too. So you're not off the hook yet. Uh. Oh, yeah. So. All right, question number one is, what is something you can't live without when you're doing a photo shoot? Besides your camera, besides your Sony?

Oh, definitely lighting, you know, any type of lighting. And then also an apparatus to diffuse that lighting. If I want to create soft lighting, which is usually just a simple shoot through umbrella, so some sort of lighting and some sort of diffuser all the time, everything. Because I'm very stickler. If I don't see catch lights in those eyes, I ain't taking a picture. Or if the quality of light is not good enough for me, I don't even take the picture. So I need to. If I can't find the light on location, then I need to create it. And that's just a necessity for me.

Is there a brand, certain brand of lights that you use or do you use a variety?

Yeah, I. Well, now I'm mostly going to constant light. And so I use the Stella reflex lights, which I absolutely love because they're super strong, constant light, so I use that. But I'll use a flash once in a while because of course they're not super, super strong like a flash. And so I generally use a Godox flash because they're very inexpensive and if you lose them, no big deal. So those are kind of like what I use.

Cool. All right, Number two is how do you spend your time when you're not working?

Oh, man. I mean, it's basically all to my family because, as you know, this business is pretty crazy. I am literally like every other week traveling somewhere around the world. And so when I do come home, concentrate on my family. And so that's important to me. And if you don't put time towards what's important to me, you're going to lose it. And especially with the crazy schedules that you have as a photographer, traveling and all that kind of stuff. So basically, it's like my work, my family, and then every once in a while, you Know, going out with friends here and there, but basically, that's kind of like my life right now.

Yeah. You just nailed it in a nutshell for me as well. I love it. All right, number three is what is a photo? I know you just said your. Your lighting, but what is a product maybe in addition to, like, not. Not necessarily a camera lens or lighting, Whatever. Any sort of, like, product that you would recommend that, you know.

Yeah.

Might not think of right away?

I got one. It's called the cheetah stand. Okay. What a cheetah stand does. And I. People ask me about these stands all the time. In fact, I had them on stage with me at the Portrait Masters, too. It's a stand where when you lift it up, the legs automatically fold in.

Oh, I know this stand. And it is amazing.

Yeah. And so if you're a wedding photographer and you're trying to go through tables and trying to fit through narrow areas, and you're constantly on the go, when that stand, the legs come in automatically. It's a smaller footprint. You can sneak through things. You could use it as a monopod, too, because the legs come in. I cannot leave home without that cheetah stand.

It's a genius design. I know exactly what you're talking about.

And I think I could get people a discount, too.

Oh, sweet.

All you have to do is go to my LinkedIn page, which is scottrobertsstudio.com and then you have all my links, and then I think there's a special link discount on the stands.

Fantastic. I need one, so I'm glad you said that. I'm gonna get one. Get myself one.

And even the Stella lights, I think you can get a discount through there too. But, yeah, she just. Stands are great.

Awesome. Very cool. Okay, number four is what would you tell people who are just starting out? And I know you covered this a little bit, but if you could sum.

It up, I think there's a few things. One, I feel like, get a mentor, because with the style that you. Let's say you're a portrait photographer. Don't have a landscape photographer as your mentor. You know what I mean?

Yeah.

Like, it has to. First of all, like, okay, find a mentor, but a mentor whose photography that you kind of respect and admire. And also, they've made at least a ha. At least a half a million dollars profit. Not gross, but profit in their business. And that will take you further because I've. I've mentored several photographers, and there's things that I tell a photographer that have taken me decades to learn or I've wasted so much money, thousands and tens of thousands of dollars doing something a certain way and said, don't do that, do this, because it's going to save you thousands of dollars. You know, so there's even an equipment in buying that. So totally. There's so many things that a mentor can do for you and give you the shortcuts to your craft. That that's the one thing that I highly recommend.

Love it. Perfect. Awesome. So scottrobertstudio.com that's where everyone can find all the things that you have that you offer, all your things, right?

Yes. Instagram links, all that kind of stuff. Workshops, they can sign up for whatever discounts on gear. It's all there. Portfolio.

Awesome.

Blah, blah, blah.

Sweet. Well, I will see you in march@wppi theportraitmasters. I'm excited.

Yes. Thank you so much for having me. And I know we haven't had a chance to chat and so this has been a real blessing for me and thanks for having me on.

Yeah, thank you, Scott. I appreciate you. We'll see you next time.

[Nikki Klosser]

Thank you so much for listening to the Portrait System podcast. Your 5 star reviews really help us to continue what we do. So if you like listening, would you mind giving us a review wherever you listen? I also encourage you to head over to soubreiseducation.com where you can find all of the education you need to be a successful photographer. There are over 1000 on demand educational videos on things like posing, lighting, styling, retouching, shooting, marketing, sales, business and self value. There's also the 90 day startup challenge, plus so many downloads showing hundreds of different poses. We have to do checklists for your business, lighting feature, PDFs. I mean truly everything to help make you a better photographer and to make you more money. Once Again, that's Sue briceducation.com.