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The Portrait System Podcast
Overcoming Frustration & Unlocking Success with Sissela Johansson (Re-Release)
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- [00:00]
A
Hey there, it's Nikki Klosser and I want to let you know about an awesome free giveaway for people on our email list. If you haven't already, click the link in our podcast description or go to theportraitsystem.com signup to get on the list. If you sign up, you'll get a free posing 101 PDF to jumpstart things. It's an epic PDF, so you'll definitely want to get this. Also, just by being in our email community, you'll get deals, sales, and information about any of our upcoming events and activities. So head over to theportraitsystem.com signup and sign up. Today you're listening to the Portrait System podcast.
- [00:35]
B
For me personally, I ended up beating myself up so hard because I saw these people and I was like, why the heck is it that these people can do this? Why is it that they can push aside their. Their sorrows and their pain and still make it? Why can they push through that discomfort when I can't?
- [00:54]
A
Welcome to the Portrait System podcast. I'm your host, Nikki Klosser, and this show is here to help you succeed in the world of photography and business. Help you learn to become financially free, doing what you love and so much more. With over 1 million downloads, countless photographers have taken what they've learned from both our episodes and from theportraitsystem.com and they have grown their businesses, quit their day jobs and are designing a life of their dreams. We keep it real and share stories about the ups and downs that come with running a photography business. You'll hear real life stories of how other photographers run their business and you'll learn actionable steps that you can take to reach your own goals. Thank you so much for being here. And let's get started. Today's guest is Sicily Johansson, and while she's originally from Denmark, she now lives in Connecticut. Sisala really was an open book during her interview and we talk quite a bit about what it's like when you see other photographers becoming really successful while you're still feeling like you just aren't making the growth you want. This is an honest and raw interview and it actually reminds me of Sissela's work. Her work is what I would call soulful and connected and she's just an incredibly talented portrait photographer. Okay. It is my honor to introduce to you Sisala Johansen. Hey, Sisila. Welcome to the Portrait System. How are you?
- [02:09]
B
Hi, Nikki, how are you?
- [02:10]
A
I'm doing great. Hey, where are you?
- [02:12]
B
Calling in from Today, I am currently sitting in Connecticut.
- [02:16]
A
Oh, Connecticut. Okay. But you're not from Connecticut.
- [02:19]
B
Oh, no, no, no, no. I'm born and raised in Denmark.
- [02:22]
A
Okay. That's what I thought. Very cool. And how long have you been in Connecticut?
- [02:26]
B
Well, I came here the first time in 2014, but I've been living here since April.
- [02:32]
A
Okay. Oh, yeah. So only just over five years?
- [02:35]
B
Yeah, yeah. It feels like a lifetime.
- [02:39]
A
Were you a photographer when you were in Denmark?
- [02:42]
B
Oh, yeah. I've been a photographer for, like, 12 years, I think, at this point.
- [02:47]
A
Oh, okay.
- [02:48]
B
I'm trying to count, but yeah.
- [02:51]
A
Okay, cool. And one of the reasons I wanted to have you on is you had left us a message on the application part of the website. So, you know, real quick, I'm not sure if people listening, if you know that there. There is a place on the super arts education website where you can apply to be a guest on the portrait system. And Sicily, you are very, you know, active in our Facebook group. And I've always loved your posts and just your positive energy and everything. And, you know, you just ask good questions, so I've noticed you for sure. And then when you. You made a post and when you were applying through the website to be on the podcast, you had said that you were feeling, you know, a little frustrated because you were seeing posts from people saying how they were making these big sales, and that wasn't happening for you, and you were just like. And then some things changed, and then all of a sudden you were making the sales, and I just think it's. I'm just really curious of, you know, your whole story and what changed. So, just to give people kind of like a rundown of what really interested me, you know, to get you on. So. So, yeah, so this will be good. I'm excited to hear all about it.
- [03:59]
B
Okay. It's a big story.
- [04:01]
A
Okay. So you said you've been a photographer 12 years. You started in Denmark, you moved to Connecticut. So tell us what happened from there.
- [04:10]
B
Well, I moved to Connecticut because I got married. I didn't plan on finding myself an American husband, but you know how it goes. You don't choose who you fall in love with. And I fell in love with an American, so. And I was very. I've always been very fluid in my movement around wherever, so I've always traveled a lot. I always had a lot of adventure in my body. So I was like, okay, I'm in a position where I can move, so I'm going to be the one doing that. And I came here we had applied for my engagement visa, my K1 visa. It's probably people who have seen the show with that whole visa process. And I remember the day that I got the visa. It was like March 8th. I'd been to a interview at the embassy in Sweden, because that's the closest embassy. And I was on the plane the same day. And I got married not very long after.
- [05:03]
A
Wow, that's a whirlwind.
- [05:05]
B
It was a whirlwind. And I like to live like that, for better and for worse. And yeah, so I waited like six months for my work permit to come in. And when that happened, I opened up my business immediately. I was doing some, like, for the fun of it, shoots, tfp, time for print shoots. And when I had the chance, I just opened up my business and then nothing happened. This was like in September 2016.
- [05:35]
A
Well, let me ask you this though. When you were in Denmark, did you have a successful business where you were selling packages or what did it look like in Denmark?
- [05:45]
B
It was way different back then. I was in my early to mid-20s, so it wasn't an established business per se, it was a business. I paid my taxes and I was registered and all these wonderful things. Things. But I was also studying at the time. I was studying textile design, handicraft and communication, which is way different than photography. But back then, my shoot and burn, it was. I did some weddings. Apparently, that's the thing. You start out with weddings. I did some small Danish weddings. Danish weddings are in general small, making it way easier and very, very intimate. And I was trying to get on my feet as a business owner, but at the same time, I was studying. So it was limited. But here, when I moved here, I knew that I would be pretty much unhirable. I don't have a useful degree. I don't have work experience here. Back then, I basically didn't exist, like on records. And a lot of immigrants have gone through the same thing. And so my ex and I, at that time, we were in agreeance that photography was the best way to go about it. And he really supported me and believed in me, and he loved my work. He was like, one day you're gonna be the one who supports me. Wow. Yeah, I was very lucky. There's no question about it. So, yeah, I wasn't successful in my business before then either.
- [07:13]
A
Okay, so you decided here you were gonna open a business here you were doing some, you know, time trade for print, that sort of thing, where you were just doing trades. And. And so at that point, you Know, did you have pricing or did you have a website? You know, give us an idea of when you first started out here in the States, what it looked like, and what were you shooting, too.
- [07:37]
B
So I had a website. I had one back in Denmark. So I had a website that I brought with me. I have no idea how the SEO on that one was. I'm pretty sure I wasn't very detectable. So I had my website. I had. I started out. I think this was a very short amount of time. I had this pricing because not long after I discovered Sue Price, but I think I was, like, around $400 to $500 for my services as a portrait photographer, but very much inspired by fashion and beauty. That was, like, where it came from, right?
- [08:09]
A
Right.
- [08:10]
B
Yeah.
- [08:10]
A
Okay, so you said before you found sue, you were right around 400. So talk to me about, you know, what. What made you decide to change things and just kind of what happened from there.
- [08:22]
B
Excellent question. I was in a lot of Facebook groups, and I was not getting any clients. I didn't know how to get any clients. It's still a struggle, but now I actually know how. It's just a matter of implementing.
- [08:37]
A
Isn't that the truth? Oh, my gosh. It's like, we all know what to do. It's just. Are we doing it?
- [08:41]
B
Oh, my God. I can teach this stuff. But I am not very good at following my own advice or the things that I've been taught. So there's that. But back then, I had no idea. I just thought that if I put myself out there, maybe put a little bit of money behind a Facebook ad, then I would be discovered, and people would come to me from all over, and I would be wildly successful and start being the one who was the main breadwinner.
- [09:08]
A
Like, why aren't they finding me? Like, I'm here.
- [09:11]
B
Exactly. Yeah. Look how good I am. Like, look at my work. I'm amazing.
- [09:15]
A
Totally, totally.
- [09:18]
B
That was. That was kind of the mindset that was going on in my brain back then. I was a little cocky, for sure, but it just didn't happen.
- [09:25]
A
I think a lot of people go through that, though. I think a lot of people go through that. Like, okay, my website's up. I have my Instagram page done. I have my portfolio built. Like, why aren't they coming to me? Like, what's happening?
- [09:38]
B
Exactly.
- [09:39]
A
Yeah. I think sometimes people forget or in denial. And I was there, too. You know, don't get me wrong, that we have to do the work behind it. We have to do the marketing we have to do the pricing and we also have to do the self value work. And I think that's the part that is. I think is probably the hardest, is the self value piece, personally. But I think people kind of forget that and put that on the back burner sometimes. And once they do it, it's like, oh, so. So tell me. Because you'd said in your message that you were feeling frustrated because you were seeing all these big sales and you weren't getting them. So tell me a little bit about that.
- [10:19]
B
Well, that happened later because for a year I didn't. I was in this weird limbo of not getting anything. Like, I got. I had a few clients, but nothing happened. And then Natalia Lalor, actually, she's. She's from my local area. She. We somehow got in touch and she was like, sizzler, you need to raise your prices. Like, seriously. And I'd been following along in the whole IPS groups for a while at that point, and she kind of gave me the kick. And then Bikini was like the audacity to tell me what I need to charge. Oh, my God. But it was a great kick, and I'm forever grateful, actually.
- [10:55]
A
Well, and Natalia is one of our episodes. One of our podcast episodes. Yeah, she's episode number 47. So if you haven't heard Natalia's story yet, definitely, you know, check her out too. So, okay, so someone tells you to raise your prices and you're like, what? Like, don't tell me what to do. I hate being told what to do. So I can totally relate to that. But it sounds like her giving you that kind of encouragement, even though at the time might not have felt like encouragement is what you needed. Yeah, I mean, sounds like it.
- [11:24]
B
It was exactly what I needed. And after I got over my. My prideful. What do you call it when you feel insulted a little bit. After I got over that part, I took it to heart and I was like, okay, what is she actually telling me here? And I went. I dove deeper into the whole IPS thing and Super Ice community. I had found it at that point, don't remember how, but I had found it. And I was observing for a long while. And so she kind of gave me that kick to jump into it. And I remember my first, like, I did a headshot session for a real estate agent, and she paid it regularly. I think she paid like $500 for it. And she got a number of images, don't remember how many, but I said to her, hey, I'm trying this new thing. I'M gonna show them to you in person afterwards as a reveal session. So I practiced on her and she actually like, I did the whole thing. I laid out snacks and drinks and all these different things, and I actually sold a little bit extra. And that was just a trial one. And then next time I had a session, it was actually a photographer who's an hour or so away from me, who's also in the surprise community. And she was like, sisra, I want your work. And she purchased my largest collection. Because at that point I reworked my prices to fit the superprice model. So my smallest package was like $1,400. And I think my largest one, if I am not mist, it's a while ago, was 3,500. So they bought my biggest collection and I was like, that was my first real IPS session. And I was just, what the heck? This is actually, actually possible. Whoa. And from there on, I did IPS and I got some clients. I started like, I. I bought one month of suit rice. We didn't have a lot of money back then. It was like he was supporting me and he believed in me so much that he was okay with this being my full time pursuit. Whether or not I put a full time pursuit into it was another matter. But that was kind of where we were. And so for me to spend money on myself was not something that I had an easy time doing. So I spent $35 on a month of surprise and I just gobbled it all up. Like, I watched as many videos as I could. I implemented as much as I could in that short amount of time, and it entirely changed my business. I looked at self value. Videos were like, cracked.
- [14:12]
A
Totally. It is like cracked. That's so funny.
- [14:16]
B
I loved it. And I started really deeply believing in my work and to a large extent in myself. And I started networking and I met people and suddenly I was out there. I did meet people and my business did start. It didn't take off, but it started slowly. It wasn't like an overnight success, but it was there. And I started earning some money. I started getting some client and I did charge my pricing and I did not back down on that.
- [14:49]
A
Well, Sisala, you just said something really important, and that is that it doesn't happen overnight. It's not something that just. You wake up one day and all of a sudden you have a $2,000 average sale. Like, it just doesn't. And I think that's what happens sometimes is people, people think that, oh, just because, you know, someone mentioned they had one Big sale. That person might have had a big sale, but maybe that's not their average yet. Or maybe. Maybe they. Their average is 2,500, but they've been doing this forever. Or, you know, they were super fortunate to have tons of time and energy to put into their business. And they spent the last six months just, like, kicking ass and doing everything. And, yeah, it only took them six months. Like, everyone is just on a different trajectory for when their business is. Is going to grow. And there's so many pieces to that puzzle.
- [15:41]
B
Exactly. And one thing that I noticed in my business was that after the initial, like, year or so, things slowed down again because, like, I did pretty well in the beginning. I had the $2,000 average sale. I booked really well. The phone calls went well. People were attracted to me and my message back then. And somewhere along the way, I started being miserable in my personal life, and I brought that with me. And I no longer spoke the passion. I no longer felt it. I no longer had the ability to connect with people the same way I had when I started out doing it that way. And I think that was probably the hardest blow. It's like, well, I'm on this upwards trajectory. It's going great, and suddenly it's not. And back then, I did not have the foresight to look inwards and see what the heck is going on with me. And later on, I discovered I'd actually been depressed for a long, long time. And it had affected every part of my life without me knowing, without me accepting it.
- [16:52]
A
Yeah.
- [16:53]
B
So that had something to do with it.
- [16:55]
A
Oh, yeah, absolutely. I mean, depression can be very heavy. And like you said, you had some big changes in moving countries, married, starting a new business. I mean, that's a lot. That's a lot going on.
- [17:08]
B
Absolutely. And I did not give myself the permission to actually look at it and be like, holy. Whoa. You have. You have gone through all of this. I didn't allow myself for that adjustment. I thought I was lazy. I was, to an extent. Honestly, I was. But also the other part of it was, emotionally, I did not give myself recognition for the fact that I had uprooted my entire life and moved to a country with a completely different culture. And even though I spoke the language, didn't mean that I spoke the cultural language.
- [17:37]
A
Yep, yep. And I think sometimes we forget to give ourselves permission to acknowledge the things that we are experiencing, whether. Whether small or, you know, it might not be that you. You know, people listening, that they just switched countries and got married and all of that, but I mean, it could be, it could be anything. Maybe something's going on with one of your kids or maybe, you know, you're losing a friendship. I mean, it could be anything that could truly affect you to the point where you internalize it and not, you don't cope with it and then it spills over into your business. And that's why, you know, it's, it's hard for people to hear this. And this is something sue and I have talked about quite a lot because she will call people out on this big time if your business isn't going well. It's not the economy, it's not, you know, the clients are cheap. It's not, it's you. It's something that you're doing or not doing, whether it is your portfolio isn't strong enough or you're not marketing and maybe you think you are, but you're really not. And a lot of it is that self value piece and what you are projecting out into the world, you're not attracting the client that you want and need because you're not putting that out. And it is, it's such a tricky thing to deal with. But if you don't, big changes are not going to happen in a positive way.
- [18:59]
B
Exactly, exactly. And I was not in a positive place. And I, as Sue so eloquently puts.
- [19:08]
A
It, totally, yeah.
- [19:12]
B
My energy was, it changed from being this optimist lover of every person, every part of life to being depressed and desperate. I was desperate for money because I started feeling the pressure of having to perform, having to start making my way, earning my way, earning my keep. And I've always been highly independent. And so suddenly that was taken away from me by the immigration process and I kind of allowed myself to fall into it. I allowed myself to be kept. And whether I realized it or not, because I did a lot of soul searching recently and I don't think I actively realized that it was the easy thing to do, it was the easy thing to allow myself to be kept, even though that that was part of what ended up costing my marriage. It was a very hard lesson, not going to lie. So that desperation, that stink stankiness that it oozes out of your pores and everyone around you will sense it, whether they're going to spend money with you or not. Some people that know you will probably be supportive and feel that you're going through something, but not everyone knows you. And so they will stay away from you, Potential clients will stay away from you. And I felt abandoned. There was a Lot of abandonment I felt in my life, even though I wasn't. I had everyone around me. I've always been very, very blessed with a lot of people in my life, and I have a very close family. But even though I found friends here, even though I built myself a community here, I felt so alone, and I felt I was constantly homesick. And that made it really, really difficult to actually do the things that I wanted to do. Really difficult. And there are some people out there, and I think this is really important because when you're online, you see all these different people doing different things, and the ones that are really making it, really having that success. Those people are often people who have the ability to push aside their personal issues a little bit. There are different personalities. We all know this. And I'm really impressed by those people, but I'm not one of them.
- [21:47]
A
Same exactly.
- [21:49]
B
And. And I think for me personally, I ended up beating myself up so hard because I saw these people and I was like, why the heck is it that these people can do this? Why is it that they can push aside their sorrows and their pain and still make it? Why can they push through their discomfort when I can't? What is wrong with me? Why am I not being a good business person? Why can't I just do it? And there is this culture today about just do it.
- [22:23]
A
You're so right.
- [22:26]
B
I do, too. Because not everyone can just fucking do it. It's just not how it works. Some people are wired differently, and that's completely okay. Not everyone is going to make it big in business in their first year. Not everyone's going to make it big in business in their fifth year.
- [22:43]
A
Yep, it's true. It's true. We recently had a discussion in the. In the Facebook group. Someone was. Someone was bothered by posts of people saying, you know, about that. They had these big sales.
- [22:55]
B
I saw that.
- [22:56]
A
Yeah. And it bothers. And that's, you know, this person is so entitled to their opinion. And everyone feels differently about things. And I'm of the mindset that we all are on our own journey and our own path. And what takes, you know, someone six months might take someone 20 years, or maybe they never will. And it's just because we're all wired differently. And some of us can pick up and make a really beautiful portfolio in a matter of months. And some people, it takes 10 years. And some people can learn how to do in person sales, like overnight. And some people, it takes longer. And I guess I don't want anyone to tell people that you have to be a certain way or take a certain amount of time. You know, you don't have to be the most creative person in the world and the most technical person. There are so many successful photographers who aren't the best photographers in the world, but their clients love their photos and they're paying what the prices are, and that's what matters. And in the end, the people who are doing those sales and who are successful, they're putting the work in. They're putting the work in with everything, including that self value. They're not blaming other people. They're not judging other people for either being successful or not being successful. They're just looking at their own business and how they can serve and make their clients happy as well as make themselves happy.
- [24:19]
B
I couldn't agree more. I looked at that whole conversation. I read most of it, actually, and I will have to say anyone who is in the Super Ice community in that group right now and who participated in that conversation, oh, my God, you guys are amazing. We had this conversation. It got a little hot sometimes, but I was really impressed with how everyone handled that conversation. It was one of the reasons why I love that community is because we can have these really difficult conversations where we do not necessarily agree with everything, but it was just a really wonderful conversation. I have to say that it was.
- [24:56]
A
It was very respectfully done.
- [24:58]
B
Exactly.
- [24:58]
A
I will say that people didn't get super nasty and catty and like you said, it got hot sometimes. But everyone's allowed to have their own opinion around it for sure.
- [25:07]
B
Exactly. I completely agree.
- [25:08]
A
And you can share that for you, you weren't successful at this time in your life because it was something that you were doing or not doing for your client.
- [25:19]
B
It's probably more what I wasn't doing.
- [25:22]
A
Yeah, totally. And I also take full responsibility when my sales start to wane. Like, okay, what do I need to do right now? Because I know it's on me. And there is such empowerment in that, knowing that I'm the one who can make this better, that I'm the one who can change this and I don't have to rely on other people because. Oh, that's just such an empowering thing.
- [25:44]
B
Yeah. I actually haven't thought of it that way. I think you're absolutely right. I'm the master of whatever I want my world to be. Like.
- [25:55]
A
Totally.
- [25:55]
B
You're absolutely right about that. Yeah. I feel like it was actually part of the conversation. I feel like as a creative. So I am a creative photographer. I consider myself a creative photographer.
- [26:08]
A
You absolutely are. Your work is very beautifully done. It's very creative. It's very. Just soulful. And I love it. I really love what you do.
- [26:19]
B
Oh, that makes me happy. So soulful is a good word because I put a lot of my soul into it. And I think that is part of why it's so difficult for me to sometimes be a business person, because I am a creator first and business person second. And I think. I think finding that balance can be incredibly difficult, because as you said, there are people, There are photographers out there who are good at what they do. They might not be the next Danielle or whatever, whoever, but they do something that is valuable and that their clients see as valuable. And that is so valid. They are so valid. They fulfill a need, and they have found a way to make something of themselves in a way that gives them that freedom. And I think. I love that. I love every single moment of that. And, yeah, photography might have started out as just this creative outlet, but you have to find the balance in it, because you can be the most amazing artist out there. If no one knows you exist, it doesn't fucking matter.
- [27:33]
A
It's so true. It's so true.
- [27:36]
B
So, yeah, for me, finding the surprise community was really important because it helped me, first of all, see my value. And see, okay, I need to actually have these prices because I want to make a living. I don't just want to exist. I want to live. I want to travel a lot. I have, like, my friends, a lot of my families. And Denmark, my parents live in Sweden. I have friends all over the world. Let's face it. I want to be able to. To go wherever I want to be, whenever I want to be. That demands a level of financial freedom that I can't get from being the struggling artist. And I hate that narrative. I'm so done with that narrative.
- [28:13]
A
Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Well, you know, and just one more thing about that. The post that, you know, the person in the group was that. I think she used the word like. It, like, nauseated her to see people making these posts about money. And when I see the money posts, you know, money can bring a lot of guilt and shame and resentment to people. And I know. I went through it. Sue talks about it all the time. She's got. You know, we talk about it in the podcast episodes that I've done with her here. It's on her website. She has the money talks and all of that. And when I see someone posting that they had a $10,000 sale or $20,000 a month, or whatever it is. I'm thinking, oh my gosh, think of all the life expect experiences they're gonna have with that money. Like, yes, good for them. I get so pumped. And that's like one of the reasons I love doing this podcast so much, is it's not just about the money. It's. Yes, it is money. But having that money allows you to visit your friends in Switzerland and your family in Denmark and to travel and. Same with me. And to give my kids these experiences that they would never have if I didn't have money. So, yes, it's about the money, but it's not. It's about the experience. So to me, when I see $10,000, I think, wow, that's like 10 plane tickets. Or that is, you know, a new four wheeler and, you know, something for my kid to be able to like, ride in the dirt. Like, I'm totally going off on a tangent with all of this, but I guess it's just such people have different outlooks on money and if you can shift your outlook to a positive instead of a negative, it can change everything.
- [29:48]
B
I completely agree. And one of the reasons, like, that post actually resonated with me. Not the whole nauseated part, that's a different side, but the whole seeing these posts about money, I go back and forth on it. I sometimes I see them and I am wildly ecstatic on their behalf. Like, oh, my God, it's so freaking amazing. Like, these people are actually doing it. And other times I don't feel it and I'm like, ugh. Ugh.
- [30:20]
A
Yeah. Which I think that's normal too. I mean, but then again, so what.
- [30:24]
B
Happens when I, when I do that now is I kind of look inwards and I'm like, okay, Sisla, why the heck are you having this reaction right now? What's going on with you? What's going on in your brain? And I think about it, and usually it's because I want what they have. And I can't have that right now. Not if I keep this attitude. I can't.
- [30:48]
A
I've experienced that so intensely with different situations. Like, okay, why am I, like, so upset right now with this? Oh, that's right. Because I want it.
- [30:59]
B
Yeah, exactly. I crave this. I want this. Okay, great, then find a way to get it. But that doesn't involve jealousy and that doesn't involve stankiness and, yeah, being jealous of people who have actually been able to make it.
- [31:16]
A
Hey, just a quick break to tell you that since you're here listening, you have access to a really great offer for our listeners only. We have a special promo code you can use to get 50% off the cost of membership. Just go to theportraitsystem.com or click the link in the description and use the promo code PODCAST50 to get 50% off off of a membership. We rarely discount membership, so this is a big deal. As I hope you already know, the membership is how I and so many guests on this podcast reached our success. And it gives you access to countless amazing videos, an awesome community, and all the tools you need to build a massively successful business. So use the code podcast50Now to join the community and to start building the business of your dreams. I'll see you there.
- [32:02]
B
I think.
- [32:03]
A
And that I'm not. I'm not not saying that this is the poster, the person.
- [32:06]
B
No, no, no, no, that's not. Yeah, no, this is. Okay.
- [32:08]
A
Oftentimes that is the case, you know, in. You know, but maybe it's not for some people. So I shouldn't assume that that is. And I think a lot of us did assume that. And you know, that that's not okay either. Like, I think we have to just be careful about that. But for me personally, that is 100% what it is when I start to feel angry or envious or jealous. Always. That's what it is.
- [32:31]
B
Same here. Absolutely same here. I will say, though. So I was. I did that one month of super ICE education back in 16 or 17 at this point. And I can be a cheapskate. I don't always put money behind myself, which is. I'm working on that because I'm totally worth actually spending money on myself. And yeah, need it. Need it for education. Need it for a lot of things. Even those shoes that I crave, I need those sometimes too. But I pursued a lot of different mentors, mentor groups, and I found a lot of different ones. Not a lot, but some different ones. There was like a couple that stood out. And I really loved being there. I loved participating in that community. My only problem was that the focus on money did become too much. It was too much about the numbers and not about the art. And that's one of. For me, because for me, that is really important. The art is really important. And I felt like listening to all of that, however amazing it was for these people who made these sales, who did that, who were so freaking successful, I had to step back and reevaluate what I considered success. And I actually withdrew from those communities. I'm still in them. I just don't participate that much. And this is early in the year, in spring, and I found the Portrait system podcast again and I started listening and then I. There was that week, I think the free week, and I signed up and then I signed up for a month and then within with a. Like, after like half a month, I signed up for the year. And part of that. And I'm not gonna. I actually haven't watched that much on it, but I have been in the user group and that has been very valuable. I have gone back to there and I suddenly found a place where I could balance the money and the creativity. Because I recognize within myself that in order for me to be the business person that I want to be, I need to be the creative person that I want to be. And it isn't very useful for me to kick myself constantly because I'm not a good enough business person.
- [34:56]
A
Totally, totally.
- [34:57]
B
It's not going to change. That's who I am. So instead of being upset about that and kicking myself while I'm down, I have recognized that I need to balance the things I need to be happy in what I do and what I offer and the message that I send out and the work that I send out. Because honestly, I tried at some point, I tried like changing my whole aesthetic. It happened kind of automatically and I had to rail it in again. I had to look at it and be like, this is not me. People want this. I recognize that. People love it. They're good pictures. It's not me. So what is me? And it is really hard recognizing that I don't necessarily want to do what people want me to do. I want to be hired for my heart and not for myself skills. I can take great pictures in almost whatever style you want, but that's not what I want to be hired for. I want to be hired because people see my work and they're like, oh my God, I want to be that. I want to see myself like that. I want to see myself through her eyes. And standing up for that in yourself takes a little bit of guts because it is not going to do it. You're not going to go the fast track that way.
- [36:20]
A
Yeah, definitely. And you know, Sissa, I know we've talked a lot about just, you know, the self value and all of that. I know people want to hear about your business too, and just about what. What it is that you specialize in and focus on. So would you mind, like, who is your typical client and you know, just tell me about your work and what you shoot.
- [36:42]
B
Okay, so My typical client. Oh, that's. I have asked myself that a million times. And I've just actually recently started really honing in on who my typical client is. They are creatives themselves. Whether or not they actually do something creative or they somehow resonate really deeply with it. They come from the ages around 20 to, I would say around 45. That's my target demographic at this point, of the people that actually really resonate with my work. And so the work that I do, I started out with the zoom mindset of empowerment and helping women see their true beauty and all of those things. And then recently I discovered that that was actually not necessarily what I did. It is what I do. It's not what I want to market myself as, because I took on my clients, pain on myself a lot, all of their body issues. I saw it and I internalized it. And eventually it had built up to the point of breaking down in front of my therapist. It was pretty. It happened. So I had a lot, a long talk with myself about it. And I co create art. So the clients come to me because they want to see themselves as a piece of art. And together we sit down, whether virtually or in person, and we make that vision come to life. We talk about how they see themselves, whether they're on location or whether they're in studio. We talk about colors, we talk about scenario. What is it that they want to say with these images? And so it's become about co creation. I co create art. I don't know if that made any sense at all.
- [38:42]
A
Oh, yeah, absolutely. Well, and let's talk about the logistical part of it. Yeah, you know, like, so do you have a studio? Do you offer hair and makeup? Do you do packages a la carte? Like all that good stuff?
- [38:55]
B
Oh, that good stuff. I don't have a studio. I borrow a studio sometimes. I have a really good friend of mine who's an amazing photographer who says, hey, can shoot here. Awesome. So sometimes I have access to that. I'm very, very, very lucky. Other times I shoot from my. My home. Before that was what I usually did. Like, before my. My whole divorce thing, that was what I did. And now I'm open to doing that again. I also go on location or I come to my clients. It's really individual. It's up to the client, what they resonate with some people. Like, you know what, I need to get away from my kids. So yeah, I need to come to you. Other times it's no, you know what? It would be really, really beneficial for me if you came to me, great. That's what we do then. I don't mind driving. I love driving, actually. So now my clients are coming from. I'm coming to my clients all over the state, sometimes out of state, and that's been really great. I offer hair and makeup if they want it. I focus less and less on it because I have found that I have a really tough time really narrowing down the style that I want the makeup to be in. And I found that it's because I want less, less, less, less, less, less. And I want more, actually. I want less overall makeup, and I want more shine. So I like the highlights. I like the dewy look. I like skin looking like skin. So it's hard for me to feel like the makeup fits exactly my vision. So it's. Sometimes it's just better not. And some people, I've discovered, don't recognize themselves with makeup. So it's a conversation that happens every single time. Do you wear a lot of makeup? How much makeup do you wear? Do you recognize yourself with makeup? And most of my clients, I don't know why, but most of them are like, no, you know what? Actually, I don't. I don't want a lot of makeup. I just want a very natural look. And even the times where we did a very natural look with the makeup, they've been like, that's still too much. So sometimes the best solution is actually just say, okay, then, well, moistured face, a little bit of mascara, a little bit of whatever, and that's it. And some of my best work has been with no makeup. I know it's totally, like, outside of what most photographers usually do, but I really like it this way. It resonates really deeply with me because I do keep my editing of the skin to a minimum, though. It takes a lot of editing to make a skin. Skin look that natural.
- [41:12]
A
Yeah. No, I love this. I love this, and I love that you have your own vision and what you're putting out there, and you're attracting the clients that want to be natural.
- [41:20]
B
Yes.
- [41:21]
A
I mean, that's just how it works, and it's awesome.
- [41:24]
B
I love it, and it's a lot of fun. And so for. I have a session fee. I've pretty much kept to the Sue Bryce style, though my packages has changed a little bit from hers. So I have a session fee that started out at 350. That was, like, back when I started doing IPS, and then due to another mentor, I ended up charging 750 with a $500 print credit. And Somehow that confused the crap out of me. And I figured if a confused mind says no, what about if I'm the confused mind? I can't imagine that being good.
- [41:57]
A
Right, right.
- [41:59]
B
I actually went back to 350 and then I did some calculations about what I want to be doing with my clients, how I want to be doing it. And sometimes I do want to buy a dress or a prop or something that is going to make this stand out. And so I. And I've started offering editing. And so I was like not offering editing. I've started outsourcing my ed parts of it, the skin part and the backdrop part. Because I want to be able to offer these things and do do these things. And. Okay. Then I realized that I need to have a higher session fee. And now it's 500, doesn't offer any print credit. And I am working on being very comfortable there.
- [42:38]
A
Yeah, that's great. So. So since it doesn't. Since that session fee doesn't offer any print credit or anything, where do they go from there? Is it just a la carte from there or do you have the packages still?
- [42:48]
B
I have packages. I have three main collections. My 8 image collection doesn't include any box. My 8 image collection is $1700. My 16 image collection is 2700 and can either be a box or an album. And then I have my 3700 collection with 25 images that are also either box or album. And they, if they buy that one, they have recently added that they will be a VIP member, which means that they will be able to come in forever as long as I'm in business and have a complimentary session. Have their session fee waived, basically.
- [43:30]
A
Okay, very cool. And what do you sell most of?
- [43:33]
B
I sell my middle collection the most. I have found that personally, I really love albums. I don't know why that happened in the beginning. I just really love the boxes. And then I started offering albums and. And I saw them and I found my album vendor that is. They're so versatile. So I can like, I have beautiful silks or beautiful velvets or whatever. And I didn't think I would love a velvet album, but I love it.
- [43:56]
A
Yeah. Oh, that sounds great. I've shifted to liking albums more as well from the box.
- [44:01]
B
It just really resonates with me. And when you open up an album and you have a full bleed image, it's just so impactful and I love every single part of it. So I definitely sell more albums now because that's what I speak from. That's that's the passion that I speak from. I do offer wall art a la carte, and they're all framed and everything, and I don't sell a lot of it. And I know why. It's because I don't particularly resonate with wall art and I know that's where the big sales are. But you know what? If I can consistently pull in $2,700 per client, then I'm actually pretty content.
- [44:36]
A
Yeah. Heck yeah. I mean, everyone has their own. And this goes back to what you said before is everyone has their own goals and needs. And some people do this part time, some people do it full time, some people are supporting their family, some people are just looking for a little bit of extra fun money. I mean, everyone has their own what is okay for them. And $2,700 average sounds pretty incredible to me.
- [45:04]
B
I will say that's not my current average, though. A lot of my clients do buy that. But I also have some headshots, things and things coming in, being in the mix. And that makes my average, I think currently around 1800 still.
- [45:18]
A
That's incred. That's amazing.
- [45:19]
B
I'm pretty. I'm pretty satisfied. It's, it's. I need, I need consistently $1,400 every single session because of life and living expenses. That's like my, my. That's where I need to be. And that's why my smallest collection is 1700. I don't count my session fee as any part of this.
- [45:40]
A
Right, Right.
- [45:41]
B
The session fee is pure. I wouldn't call it fun spending, but it is fun spending. Like it is. That is where, where I can. It's creative spending. This is where I can create the session and really curate it and something that I recently started doing more. And I love that.
- [45:54]
A
Yeah. Yeah. You know, I kind of. I waver between 1800 and $2000 average myself. That's my. That's kind of just where I've stayed for a long time. And, and it's funny, we're very similar. Although you sound like much more of a creative than I am. But the average not wanting to deal with wall art, I don't really resonate with it either. So, yeah, I can relate for sure.
- [46:18]
B
Because of it. I've actually recently added digitals only, and it doesn't. I don't necessarily show the price on my product guide, but if people are like Sizzler, I don't care about prints, then I'm not going to push it down their throat. It's like, okay, then if you Want digitals, you need to buy a minimum of five and they're $220 per digital. And that works really well with people who does headshots and who wants headshots and things like that, or models or actors or like people who, who don't necessarily resonate with the whole shebang. And I honestly, I love that. I love not having an overhead and I am branching into personal branding, but I'm trying to make it my own and my take my creative style and add that to personal branding. And I'm really excited about it. And my heart is being really fast because of it. So that's my indicator that something that's right, like when my heart start beating fast when I talk about it, then I'm like, okay, yes, yes. This is what I need to do as well. So I want to balance between personal branding and my more typical portrait sessions. And this is also an excuse for me to photograph more men because I love photographing men. Men are so amazing in front of the camera and are often easier to work with. It's just how it is. There's less often, less body issues. And while I, I work so much with. I've been such a therapist for so many of my clients that at this point, sometimes I just want an easy session. Sometimes I just want to not deal with the body image, not be the therapist, not internalize all their self images because I can't fix it. I listened to Terry's podcast episode.
- [48:06]
A
Yes, yes, yes.
- [48:07]
B
Oh my God, I love Terry.
- [48:10]
A
She is amazing.
- [48:12]
B
She's amazing. And her, her space for, for that is, is really profound and amazing. And while I was listening to it, I thought a lot about it and it really came back to the conclusion that I'd made before. I don't have enough space to also deal with that. And it's a hard realization because I want to take all their image. I want to take all their self worth and self body images and I want to put it in my hands and cradle it and hold it and nurture it and make it go away, but I can't. And that's okay.
- [48:57]
A
That's a recent thing. Absolutely, Absolutely. It's. Gosh, it's so wild to hear you say that because when I was a social worker and a therapist, and it's like the self talk you have to give and sometimes it does. With the work that we do, it does spill over into photographs and we have to be prepared for that.
- [49:15]
B
Exactly.
- [49:17]
A
Yeah. Wow. Well, it sounds like you have just made some really, just incredible steps towards Having the business of your dreams. And that came with a lot of work and a lot of self reflection and beautiful photos.
- [49:35]
B
Thank you very much. I'm definitely working on it. And it's. I recently I started seeing the clients that I want come to me automatically. I've seen an increase in my sale after coming back to this country. I was in Sweden for four and a half months during COVID after being separated. I just kind of needed to just run for a moment and so I came back because I realized I wasn't done with America yet. And I came back to the people that, the community that I built here and did all the self work and, and putting it out there, doing all the thinking and now the clients that I want, the type of clients that want to co create, that are inspired by these things are naturally coming to me. I have run some portrait calls recently for water portrait sessions and some of these people, like, they're absolutely amazing and they want to be the center of this vision that I have and it just makes my heart sing every single time. The other day I had this young single mom, 21 years old and she wants it, she wants to spend those money because she really values it and she sees it and doesn't matter how old she is or what her financial situation is, she just wants that. And that makes my heart soar. It makes me feel so honored because I know how precious money is, especially when you're a single mom, especially when you're that young. I know how precious it is. So for me that she comes to me and wants this and wants to spend these kind of money and I'm very careful with educating. It's like I drill it into them. This is what I charge. I'm expensive. If you want an album, this is what you're going to spend. And when they then still book me and still say yes and they hug me and thank me and I, I feel so honored and so privileged that these people are coming to me and suddenly the co creation is everything.
- [51:46]
A
Mm. Mm. Absolutely. Oh, I feel like I could talk to you all day about this stuff.
- [51:53]
B
I know I'm very passionate about these things.
- [51:55]
A
I'm like, let's go get a glass.
- [51:56]
B
Of wine and please, please. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. If you ever come to the Connecticut area in New York, please let me know. I will.
- [52:03]
A
Yeah. Yeah. If you're ever in Michigan. Not that people come to Michigan very often, but it's very beautiful where I'm at.
- [52:10]
B
I'm actually thinking of starting to connect more with photographers around the country. Because I want to see more of the country and so I want to road trip more. And so I am thinking of meeting up with photographers around the States and connect with them, maybe create with them and just really get to know them. So, yeah, it might actually be a thing.
- [52:32]
A
Let me know if you do come. It's really cool being part of this photography community. Obviously, it's an international thing and there have been so many times when I've been traveling and I can just post in the group and be like, hey, is there anyone in Maryland or is anyone gonna be in France that wants to meet up? Or even when I booked this huge personal branding gig and I needed five different studios around the states and I was able to get, I think four out of the five studios from Supersede Education members to rent from them, and it was just the coolest experience. And I feel like anytime, you know, you could be in any random city and post in the group, like, hey, is someone gonna be here? Do you wanna shoot together or have dinner or whatever? I guarantee someone's gonna be like, oh, yeah, no problem.
- [53:23]
B
Exactly.
- [53:24]
A
Really cool to be part of.
- [53:25]
B
I couldn't agree more. We actually, we're a few photographers here in Connecticut that follow the supervised methods and we are talking about, like meeting up more and things like that. And it's just so empowering, like having. Having photographers where it's not about competition, it's about community. It's about honing in on this beautiful, beautiful community. We're not each other's competition. On the contrary, if we, each and every single one of us, educate our clients about what is industry standards, what is common to spend, what is reasonable to spend, then it will make life so much easier for us and for all the new photographers out there.
- [54:02]
A
Totally. Oh, I love that. I love, love, love that. Well, on that note, I still have a couple more questions to ask you that I always ask at the end of each episode.
- [54:12]
B
Okay.
- [54:13]
A
And the first one is, what is something you can't live without when you're doing a photo shoot?
- [54:17]
B
Connection. I gave this a lot of thought because obviously I listened to the podcast before, but it's connection is vital. If I haven't connected with my client prior through a consultation or something similar, or the person that's in front of my camera doesn't even have to be a client, then the images will not turn out as nicely. It's so important for me to connect on a deeper emotional level with the person that's in front of my camera. And I think that is like One of the things that people tell me is that, like, oh, my God, Sisler, where do you. How do you get that connection? Through the eyes, for example. You can really see their soul. I'm like, yeah, that takes time, and that takes vulnerability, and that takes effort, and it is vital for the outcome.
- [55:05]
A
Yeah, Yeah, I can see it in your photos, definitely. I think that's where I got the soulful comment from. Yeah.
- [55:11]
B
Thank you. I'm very happy to hear that. It's so important to me. A picture can be great if you have all the technical details. Right. But if you don't have that deeper connection that comes through communicating, that comes through connecting with the person in front of you, then sometimes. Not all times, but sometimes it will fall a little flat.
- [55:29]
A
Mm, that's true. It is definitely true.
- [55:33]
B
Did that sound, like, snooty?
- [55:35]
A
No, not at all. It's true.
- [55:37]
B
Good.
- [55:38]
A
Yeah.
- [55:38]
B
Good, good, good. But, yeah, so connection is definitely the most important things for me at a photo shoot.
- [55:45]
A
Awesome. Okay, number two, how do you spend your time when you're not working?
- [55:50]
B
I would like to be one of those people that says, not working.
- [55:54]
A
I do that all the time.
- [55:56]
B
But I'm not, because I know that if I need that balance, sometimes I beat myself up about not working enough, honestly. But I need a lot of downtime, and I spent my downtime binging Netflix or reading. I recently gotten back into reading. I was a huge reader as a kid, and now I'm, like, back into it. And I don't want to read. I don't want to read any books that has anything, like, educational to say to me. I just wanted to peer into a world that isn't my own. So. So a lot of reading, a lot of Netflix, a lot of traveling. When permitted. I go back as much as I can to see my family and friends. I'm very close with them and just in general, like, hanging out with people that I care about. Hang out with my cat.
- [56:43]
A
Awesome.
- [56:44]
B
Yeah.
- [56:45]
A
All right, so let's see. Number three. What is your favorite inspirational quote?
- [56:49]
B
I've been doing a lot of thinking about this one, and the first one that I thought about was, like, a beautiful poem about body image, but that didn't really resonate with me as loud as this one did. And it's from Gabby Bernstein. I actually don't know her, but I love her quote, and it says, don't wait for a time when you're free of fear. Feel the fear, and do it anyway. And that's kind of how I live my life.
- [57:15]
A
I love that me too.
- [57:17]
B
I have so much fear in me, but I try to push past it. Exactly. Do it anyway. I wouldn't have been here in this country if I didn't push past my fear. I actually have on my wrist, I have a tattoo, and in Danish it says mull, which means courage. And I got it when I was like 21. And it's like in runes, like Nordic runes, and it's hand poked. And every single time I need a little bit of a reminder of having courage and pushing past my fear, I kind of rub on it. And I've used it so much since I got it as 21 year old. And she's a great reminder to push past the fear and do it anyway. Because if you don't push past your fear, you will never get to the places that you want to be. Fear is not your enemy. Fear is the most amazing motivator. And if you learn how to use that fear, if you learn how to use the fear of loss or fear of success, for me is a huge thing. Still working on it. If you learn how to work with the fear, you will go to places beyond your wildest imagination.
- [58:27]
A
You have the best voice. I'm like, where I want to go? Somewhere beyond my wildest imagination. Like, when you just said that, I was like, take me there. Like, you have this, like, beautiful voice. I feel like you could do like a. I don't know, narrating a book or something. I don't know, voiceover stuff.
- [58:43]
B
Oh, that sounds like fun. Yeah, I would like to do that. That could be fun. Maybe that's the next thing.
- [58:47]
A
Yeah, totally. Okay, number four. What would you tell people who are just getting started? And that was actually a really good part to that. But what else would you tell people?
- [58:58]
B
Listen. Shut up and listen. Listen to people who have been there. Listen to your clients, to the people who is going to be in front of your camera. Listen to what people are actually telling you. Shut up for a moment and just sit there and be in their space. Hold their space and listen to them. Because if someone comes to you and this is like low practical stuff, if someone comes to you and they want a headshot and you have this crazy vision in your head, amazing however it may be, if you don't listen to them and hear, hey, I just want a headshot, then you'll end up being disappointed and you'll end up disappointing them. You will end up miscommunicating and you'll end up with something that doesn't feel right. And so sometimes you Just have to listen, educate yourself.
- [59:50]
A
Yeah. That is amazing advice. Amazing. I think sometimes people don't take the time enough to listen. They're just so worried about what they're going to say next. I'm guilty too. I do it too.
- [60:03]
B
Exactly. And I actually, I struggle with this a lot. I mean, me too. Like sometimes I'm a talker. I don't know if you noticed, but I like to talk. I'm probably one of these people that actually like to hear the sound of my own voice. Voice I can see, but. Well, it doesn't sound like that in my head. First time I heard myself on, on, on, on mic, I was like, wait, is that me? This is weird. This doesn't sound. It is weird.
- [60:27]
A
It takes getting used to.
- [60:28]
B
It doesn't matter. But I, I talk a lot and, and it is still. It's something. Some of the biggest things that I'm working on with myself is just kind of hold space for space for other people and not think about the next reply and just freaking listen. And it's a work in progress. And that's okay too.
- [60:47]
A
Absolutely. Well, on that note, thank you so much for everything. Hey. Hey. Where can people find you too if they are looking for you online?
- [60:55]
B
They can find me a few places. My website is by sisela.com b y s I s s e l a.com and my Instagram is Portraits by Sizzler. So same spelling. I also have. I have a bunch of different Instagram profile, but I'm actually not going to share those. I also have a Facebook profile called Photography by Sizzler. So I think those are like my main places. I try to stick to a few social media outlets because I am growing increasingly weary of social media, especially how much I have to keep up with and just keep on running and screaming into what feels like an abyss. And. And it just. Yeah, I update my Instagram. I update my Facebook less regularly than my Instagram and that's usually where you can find me.
- [61:41]
A
Awesome. Well, thank you again. Thank you for just sharing everything. This was. This was a really, really interesting, thought provoking conversation. So I appreciate everything that you shared.
- [61:51]
B
Thank you. I'm really happy to hear it. And I could go on for hours about this. I love talking with people about things that feels a little heavier than just everyday conversations. So thank you so much for having me on. I really appreciate it.
- [62:04]
A
Yeah. Well, thank you and we'll chat soon.
- [62:07]
B
Bye.
- [62:08]
A
Bye. Thank you so much for listening to the Portrait System podcast. Your 5 star reviews really help us to continue what we do. So if you like listening, would you mind giving us a review wherever you listen? I also encourage you to head over to soubriseducation.com where you can find all of the education you need to be a successful photographer. There are over 1000 on demand educational videos on things like posing, lighting, styling, retouching, shooting, marketing, sales, business and self value. There's also the 90 day startup challenge plus so many downloads showing hundreds of different poses. We have to do checklists for your business, lighting, PDFs. I mean truly everything to help make you a better photographer and to make you more money. Once Again, that's Sue briceducation.com.