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The Portrait System Podcast
Realizing your Self-Worth and Jumping from $50 to $2000 per Photoshoot with Emma Burcusel (Re-Release
00:53:59
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- [00:00]
Nikki Klosser
Hey there, it's Nikki Klosser and I want to let you know about an awesome free giveaway for people on our email list. If you haven't already, click the link in our podcast description or go to theportraitsystem.com signup to get on the list. If you sign up, you'll get a free posing 101 PDF to jumpstart things. It's an epic PDF so you'll definitely.
- [00:19]
Want to get this.
- [00:20]
Also, just by being in our email community, you'll get deals, sales and information about any of our upcoming events and activities. So head over to theportraitsystem.com signup and sign up.
- [00:31]
Today you're listening to the Portrait System podcast.
- [00:35]
Emma Berkasel
At that point in my life I wasn't even able to purchase new clothes and clearance from Old Navy. And there's this client of mine and she's saying, emma, I cannot afford $50. Can you do it for less? And of course I said yes. You know, and I get to the photo shoot and her daughters had those beautiful $300 dresses and she apologized. She's late because she building a home and I never felt more taken advantage of. I realized in that moment that it was my fault. It crushed me. I did a terrible job during the photo shoot, but I got home and I told my husband that I will not do this to my family and I raised my prices to $500 for CD from $50.
- [01:33]
Nikki Klosser
Welcome to the Portrait System Podcast. I'm your host, Nikki Klosser and this show is here to help you succeed in the world of photography and business. To help you learn to become financially free, doing what you love and so much more. With over 1 million downloads, countless photographers have taken what they've learned from both our episodes and from the portrait system.com and they have grown their businesses, quit their day jobs and are designing a life of their dreams. We keep it real and share stories about the ups and downs that come with running a photography business. You'll hear real life stories of how other photographers run their business and you'll learn actionable steps that you can take to reach your own goals. Thank you so much for being here and let's get started. Today's guest is Emma Berkasel and she has quite an amazing story. Emma ended up falling into a really specific niche of personal branding photography and she really knew nothing about it when when it kind of fell into her lap. And she has grown her business to be extreme profitable because of it. Emma's studio is actually just around the Corner from my studio in Michigan. And it has been so fun just to talk with her about how she runs her business in the town where I grew up. You'll learn that Emma moved here from Romania, and she has worked incredibly hard to learn a different culture and just to find her own value in what she does. She's inspiring and thoughtful, and she is someone I really think you're going to love listening to. Hey, Emma, how are you?
- [02:58]
Emma Berkasel
Hi. Great. How about you?
- [03:00]
Nikki Klosser
I'm good. I'm good. I'm so, so happy that you're on the podcast.
- [03:03]
Emma Berkasel
Well, thank you for having me.
- [03:05]
Nikki Klosser
Yeah, of course. So, just a fun fact for all of our listeners, My studio in Michigan and Emma's studio are like, what, three blocks from each other? Something like that.
- [03:15]
Emma Berkasel
Probably not even that.
- [03:17]
Nikki Klosser
Not even. Yeah, like a stone's throw away from each other. So we often hear people saying, like, oh, my market's too saturated. There's too many photographers around me. Or I live in the Midwest or the south, and I can't charge industry standards that sue recommends. So this is gonna be a really good example for people that we can coexist. We literally shoot the same style of photography, the same genre of photography. Our studios are within three blocks of each other, and we're both doing very well. So I just think this is gonna be such a good episode for people to hear more about that.
- [03:51]
Emma Berkasel
Yeah.
- [03:51]
Nikki Klosser
So Emma and I, actually. We don't really know each other very well, though. We met through networking or I think we had met just. Just from the whole social media world, but never really officially met until a networking group last year.
- [04:06]
Emma Berkasel
Yeah, I think you had a networking event, and I wanted to meet you in person. And we didn't read because we are both really busy. So what I did, I actually purchased a ticket to your event. I stopped and I said hi for three minutes and left.
- [04:23]
Nikki Klosser
Is that okay? I was wondering. I'm like, I wonder why she didn't stay. Like, you came and said hi, and I was like, oh, it's so nice to meet you. And then you didn't stay. And I was like, wonder where she went?
- [04:31]
Emma Berkasel
I think I had a really busy day, but at the same time, I didn't want to crash your party because a lot of the ladies knew me. So I just felt like it was your event, and I wanted to be respectful towards that.
- [04:45]
Nikki Klosser
Ah, I see. Well, thank you for that. I appreciate that. Okay, before we get started about, you know, just your business and where you're at now in terms of how well you're selling and how many clients you have. All that good stuff I want to go back to before you started photography because I know that you moved to the States not even that long ago, I feel like. So I'm just curious what happened when you moved here, how your business got going, and just so we can tell the listeners your whole story.
- [05:15]
Emma Berkasel
So this year it's going to be 15 years since I've been.
- [05:19]
Nikki Klosser
Oh, it is 15 years. Okay. But still, that's really not that long ago in the grand scheme of things.
- [05:23]
Emma Berkasel
Yeah. So I came in 2005. I met my husband. I thought he was the most amazing human being. And I've been really blessed that he asked me marry him five short weeks later. And I said yes.
- [05:38]
Nikki Klosser
Wow. So he proposed to you five weeks after you met?
- [05:41]
Emma Berkasel
Yes, he did not want it. Yes, he did not want it to let me go back and go back.
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Nikki Klosser
That you're from Romania, Correct?
- [05:49]
Emma Berkasel
Yes.
- [05:50]
Nikki Klosser
Okay. I just wanted to make sure everyone knew that. Okay, so did you say yes when he asked you?
- [05:54]
Emma Berkasel
Oh, absolutely.
- [05:56]
Nikki Klosser
Oh, that's so cool. Okay, so you get married and then what happens?
- [05:59]
Emma Berkasel
So we got married about two weeks after that. We wanted to make sure my status here is legal. And we had our official wedding about eight months later. And I passed another year. We had our first baby. I feel like motherhood took me into a place where I had to discover who I am, you know, and not necessarily who I am, but another part of myself because I felt like I was pretty confident as a person and it was all new to me. So I know I talked to you about how I took my son to take his first year photographs. And it was just at a simple store. I think it was like a grocery store type thing. They had the portrait studio. And it was the only place I knew back then because I wasn't really too familiar with anything. And the lady just took him, screamed into his face so he can look at the camera and oh no. And I didn't recognize my son. It just seemed like it wasn't him, you know, it was him, but it truly wasn't him. So I went home. I've read the manual six times and I took my own photos of him.
- [07:21]
Nikki Klosser
So you had a camera at that point?
- [07:23]
Emma Berkasel
I did had a camera. It was a crossbreed between manual and just one button.
- [07:33]
Nikki Klosser
Right, right. So did you like your photos better that you took?
- [07:36]
Emma Berkasel
Oh, yeah. I don't think it was necessarily the quality of the images. It was more of the fact that I was able to see him and.
- [07:45]
Nikki Klosser
Get that personality out of him that, you know. Yes, I think that's such an important skill as a photographer to be able to pull out, especially with children. I mean, we know it can be difficult to photograph children, but if you approach it in a way that doesn't make them feel comfortable or you're never going to get that natural expression.
- [08:03]
Emma Berkasel
Yeah, it's a strange place for them to be. You know, they just get into a new place with new people. They probably are the first time in front of your camera and if you don't take the extra time to get them comfortable with you, you are not going to be able to get the genuine expression for sure.
- [08:22]
Nikki Klosser
So were you working at this time? Like did you have a job or were you just not just being mom? Because that is like, to be a mom is incredibly hard work and gratifying and all that good stuff. But did you have another job?
- [08:35]
Emma Berkasel
I actually was just a mom and I, I'm very proud of it, you know, because being a mom, to me it's extremely important. But I did not had another job. I did not even had a driving license. So when I started photography, my husband has been extremely supportive of me. He would come home from work at 4 or 5pm he would pick me up, drop me off to the sessions while he was taking care of our son on the road at a time where he's supposed to almost go to bed. At the end of the session, he would come pick me up and take me back home. And that was for about probably a year until I got my driving license.
- [09:20]
Nikki Klosser
And at that time, were you making a decent amount of money? Well, I'm assuming that once you took the photos of your son, you kind of realized like, huh, I wonder if this is something I could do, like for work.
- [09:30]
Emma Berkasel
Actually no, I truly enjoyed photography and I photograph friends from church and other people. But once I got more inquiries, it became very difficult for me to justify asking my husband to do that a couple of times a week without being paid. So I, I start charging $50 per CD of images and that was an immense amount of work because I would come home and I was not good at Photoshop or taking good pictures and it would take me about two hours per image and I was delivering 50 to 60 images per session.
- [10:16]
Nikki Klosser
Wow.
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Emma Berkasel
Yes.
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Nikki Klosser
I mean it's like you're doing it for free basically.
- [10:20]
Emma Berkasel
Oh yeah, absolutely.
- [10:21]
Nikki Klosser
At $50. I mean that's nothing.
- [10:23]
Emma Berkasel
Yeah, I didn't knew that back then.
- [10:25]
Nikki Klosser
Yeah. Okay, so obviously you're killing yourself over these sessions for $50. I mean did you think that was sustainable at that point and what was going through your head?
- [10:35]
Emma Berkasel
I did not even think, think if it was sustainable or not. I don't think I was in a place where, where I was looking to make it into a business. You know, I was in a place in my life where I was from a new country, surrounded by people with different mentality, a different way of doing life. And my brain was literally frozen. I didn't knew what I was doing, I didn't knew what I was going to do. And to me being young, I was 23, like the definition of success was somewhat different than it is now because I grew up with a single mom and I have, we are eight brothers and sisters and I was the oldest one. And yeah, she's, she's been amazing. She raised all of us by herself. And I wanted to be successful and I thought being successful means getting a college degree, getting an MBA or bachelor's. So when I came here, I was actually finishing my first year of college and I stayed and I didn't get a chance to finish college. So I was in a place where I didn't had any opportunities to continue that because financially I wasn't prepared for that. In Romania you didn't need a driving license to actually do whatever you want because the transportation, it's, it's normal life. So it was very, very, very different. And I think photography just kind of fell into my life. I don't know, by accident, by. Just. Because, God, that's what, you know, intended for me to start with. And I remember working really hard when I, when I start reading the manual and I start learning. I took it as a college education type of thing. So every night I was in front of the computer or reading books about four to five hours every single day. And that was about, for about three years. And I worked really hard to learn everything. And I remember sacrificing so much that I got to a point where I was feeling that I was taking advantage of and I was doing a disservice to fight my family and my children and my husband. And I remember going to a photo shoot and we did not had a lot of money. I wasn't at that point in my life, I wasn't even able to purchase new clothes and clearance from Old Navy. And there's this client of mine and she's saying, emma, I cannot afford $50. Can you do it for less? And of course I said yes. You know, and I get to the photo shoot and her daughters had those beautiful $300 dresses, they're full of ruffles. And she was excited about them. And she apologized. She's late because she's building a home. And I never felt more taken advantage of. I didn't have bad feelings towards her because it was the. I realized in that moment that it was my fault. I was giving her that. I was allowing that. But it. It crushed me. I did a terrible job during the photo shoot with the images because I wasn't in a place where I was able to create and be artistic. But I got home and I told my husband that if no one ever hires me again, I will not do this to my family. And I raised my prices to $500 for CD from $50. And that was probably 2009, which it was a lot of money for me back then.
- [14:56]
Nikki Klosser
Right. Yeah.
- [14:57]
Emma Berkasel
Yeah.
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Nikki Klosser
I mean, that's. I feel like that's one of those experiencing experiences that can be quite life changing.
- [15:03]
Emma Berkasel
Yes.
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Nikki Klosser
To feel taken advantage of. But like you said too, it sounds like it was in that moment that you realized you needed to really value yourself and your time and in what you do.
- [15:15]
Emma Berkasel
Yes.
- [15:16]
Nikki Klosser
What an important, like, horrible. I'm so sorry that I know that feeling where your stomach just drops and you just feel. It's like a. Just a sad feeling. But at the same time, it's such a learning experience because it's like, horrible to go through it. But it pushes us, I think, to the next level of like, okay, I've got to make changes.
- [15:35]
Emma Berkasel
I do value that experience, though, you know, and that client. We're still friends nowadays. I don't blame it on them. I just. I just realized that it was my fault. I was letting this happen to myself. And I don't think I had clients for about five to six months, but then I was pretty much fully booked.
- [15:59]
Nikki Klosser
Oh, really?
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Emma Berkasel
Yes.
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Nikki Klosser
So you raised your prices and then there was a period where you weren't booking, and then all of a sudden you were again.
- [16:05]
Emma Berkasel
Yes.
- [16:06]
Nikki Klosser
And why do you think that is? Why do you think all of a sudden.
- [16:09]
Emma Berkasel
I think people saw my work online, probably. And I can look at this from two perspectives. Either doing the marketing and also I think it was a huge shift change in me and in my confidence. It took me a little bit to work through it, but then it just came natural and my confidence skyrocketed when I would tell somebody, yes, my photo sessions are, you know, $100 booking fee and $500 for the CD. And because my market wasn't used to that, but they loved my work and they loved the connection, they totally went with that.
- [16:52]
Nikki Klosser
That's a good point. What you just said, that even if your market isn't used to it, maybe, you know, you're more expensive than the other 50 photographers that are in your town, but when you are the photographer that people want, when you create the beautiful photos and the experience and connect with them, they want you. They'll pay it.
- [17:12]
Emma Berkasel
Absolutely.
- [17:13]
Nikki Klosser
Well, not everyone will, but often they will.
- [17:16]
Emma Berkasel
Yeah.
- [17:18]
Nikki Klosser
Now, at that point, did you already know about sue or were you still just. Were you using any sort of, like, specific package pricing or were you just like, you know what, I'm going to raise it to 500 because that feels like a good number to me.
- [17:30]
Emma Berkasel
I do not remember, but I think I did knew about sue because I remember thinking in that moment, the idea of pricing yourself somewhere where it. The price kind of scares you or you want to be in. In a little while. Yeah. I don't remember if I knew sue at that point. I met sue online. I found out about sue at from Creative Live. And I remember watching her class and. And thinking that this beautiful woman had the courage to go on a national platform and teach. And I was able, in a way, to understand that because one of the photography schools here in Michigan called me a year prior and said, emma, we want you to teach a baby class for us. And I hung up on them because I thought somebody's. I thought somebody's, you know, just playing a joke. And they called me back and just that whole experience was really interesting, you know, And I'm not saying this to. Because I definitely knew I wasn't worthy. I'm pretty sure I was the only one available who they wanted to do this.
- [18:58]
Nikki Klosser
You said this was for a baby photography?
- [19:00]
Emma Berkasel
Yes. Yeah, of course.
- [19:02]
Nikki Klosser
Okay, gotcha. Yeah.
- [19:03]
Emma Berkasel
And I was looking at sue, and she was. She was genuine and humble. And what I learned from her, although I've never really and truly done beauty photo shoots, what I learned from her, it was to make sure the mom and the woman in the photo shoot looks beautiful, and I will be successful. And at that point in my life, being in a new country and for only about three and a half years and trying to learn English a little better, trying to understand, you know, how people work and how their minds work, it was really difficult for me to actually express myself and to truly express myself, because when you are. Romania is a very. I think it's pretty much like Russian, where we are very honest and straight to the point. And if I tell you you are beautiful, then I truly believe in my heart, you are beautiful. So coming here and seeing everybody throwing compliments around, to me, it didn't seem genuine. And I did not have the vocabulary or the experience by that time to actually be able how to talk to a client the proper way, how to make them feel that I am genuine in a different language. I didn't know how to truly connect with them. And I was watching sue, the way she was talking to women and the way she related to them, I felt like it gave me the whole different way of expressing myself without being fake or without sounding fake, at least to myself. And it wasn't necessarily copying sue, but it was just the way she expressed herself.
- [21:26]
Nikki Klosser
Wow, that's really powerful. I can't imagine, because I've never lived in another country where I'm trying to figure out the nuances of the culture and the language. I mean, I've traveled to other countries alone and remember feeling very vulnerable, but that wasn't even where I was. Living here, you are trying to acclimate and raise your kids and start a business and having to figure out the language, not only the language, but the body language and the details of how people speak to each other. I mean, that has to be a really difficult thing, for sure.
- [22:03]
Emma Berkasel
Yeah, it was really hard because it's not what you are trying to say. You want to make sure as a photographer, you get to their heart, you know, and your clients are in. You know, they just come into your studio and it doesn't matter if they are an attorney or a judge or a CEO or just a father or just a mother or they are running their own business. You know, when they come in the studio or in front of your camera, they are show up as human beings and you have to be able to reach to them, you know, at some level, so you can bring them into a place where they feel comfortable to be themselves.
- [22:50]
Nikki Klosser
Absolutely. Well, you're doing something right. I want to share something with you. When my husband and I had to hire an attorney because of an HOA issue we were having end of last year, we were, you know, I called the guy and we hired him. And I don't know, it was like our second or third meeting, I was like, hey, and I have no idea what his photos look like. It wasn't, you know, he was referred to me as the best HOA attorney, which is why I hired him. So I was like, hey, you know, I was thinking, because he's very expensive. Very expensive by the hour.
- [23:22]
Emma Berkasel
Oh, yes.
- [23:22]
Nikki Klosser
You need updated. You and your or your team are you in need of photos or headshots or anything? Because maybe I'm wondering if you'd be interested in doing a trade or something for an hour or two of your time. And he was like, oh, you know, thanks so much for the offer. But our photographer, Emma, we're so loyal to her, and we just love her, and she just does such an amazing job that we. We're just not interested. And I was like, no, Emma, these people love you. Like, very loyal to you. So what you've learned and what you're implementing in terms of. Do you know who I'm talking about, by the way? Which attorney?
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Emma Berkasel
No, no.
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Nikki Klosser
I'll have to share with you after.
- [24:00]
Emma Berkasel
Please do.
- [24:01]
Nikki Klosser
I will for sure. But the point is, is that, you know, you've taken what you've learned, and truly, it's obviously working.
- [24:09]
Emma Berkasel
I feel like I'm. I'm really blessed. I. I got to a point in my business where. Where it started to make sense for me and for my heart. I. I have been blessed with amazing clients. I cannot tell you how much of a difference it makes when they come in the studio and I'm in a place where I feel like, I got this. I can help people and I can make a difference. And especially with people of power, attorneys or judges, they are so used to being in control that when they. When they come in front of the camera, they have no idea what they do. And sometimes they get scared, they act weird, and sometimes they just. They are asking for help. Literally asking for help from you as a photographer to help them look who they are, confident and like, they are knowing what they are doing. And it's not even your photography skills that they are looking for. I think, to me, they are looking for that connection and the way for you to teach them how they can show that to the world.
- [25:42]
Nikki Klosser
Absolutely. It's a huge part of it. Like we were saying before, that connection that you make with people, that is. I believe that that is what this attorney, that's what made him feel so loyal to you is whatever. However you connected with him and his team, you've got him as a client forever. It's so great, and it's so important, and it's just a really good example of making people feel a certain way during their photos. I mean, they don't remember where you shot them. Shot. Well, I hate when I say that. Shot them. Where you photograph them. You know, they remember how you made them feel and the experience. And of course, the photos. I mean, you have to have great photos.
- [26:21]
Emma Berkasel
Of course.
- [26:22]
Nikki Klosser
But that is just such a huge part of it. So you. You talk a lot about attorneys and judges and CEOs. So I'm wondering if you can kind of give the listeners an idea of who are you normally photographing? What types of sessions are you doing?
- [26:35]
Emma Berkasel
For the longest time, I've done family and babies, and because that was my comfort place, I loved photographing families. And it wasn't until about six years ago when one of my clients, my current clients, even right now, Nicole, and inquired for a branding session. Now, I had no idea what the branding session was, but listening to sue and learning so much, I don't specialize in that, but if you give me a chance, I promise I'm going to photograph you. Very beautiful. As a woman, I had to come up with a prize. And she was taken by surprise. She was speechless. And I said, nicole, you need those images on Monday. And she said, okay, okay, fair enough. We did a photo shoot. She shared it with the law community groups and their Facebook groups. And I am not sure if it was my photography or f. In Michigan, we didn't had yet at that time, photographers who photographed that way, women. I'm not sure what it was, but from then on, it just taken off.
- [28:04]
Nikki Klosser
Okay, so at that time, did you have like a personal branding portfolio or did you have to build one? Did you already have your pricing set?
- [28:13]
Emma Berkasel
I did not have a personal branding port. I had no idea what the personal branding photoshoot even means. So I went online and I started looking into headshots and personal branding. And we truly did not had that much information out there, especially in the photography world. About six to seven years ago, I feel like it's something that's been pretty much taken off in the last five years. But reading about personal branding, it. It just. It made me realize that this is nothing new. I learned all this from Sue Brice. I know how to connect with people. I know how to bring out who they are. All I have to figure out is how I'm going to photograph. It might be in their studio, in their offices, and, you know, in location, or what they truly want.
- [29:10]
Nikki Klosser
Yeah. It is about learning about what they want. And that's such a good point because I think sometimes when it comes to headshots, oftentimes or what the old sort of way was, it was just cookie cutter. You come in, you sit down, and I'm getting this because my clients have shared with me about their past experiences. And one of the reasons they love coming to me is because it's not just this Cookie cutter, sit down. I'm taking your headshot with the same backdrop, the same pose, you know, the same everything it's really, truly listening to. What is it that you want to portray to your clients through your photos? And how do you want to look? How do you want your hair and makeup done? I mean, it's listening to people and finding out what it is they want. And like you said, if you know how to pose and connect, regardless of what genre you've done in the past, if you know those things, if you know how to light them, how to pose them and connect with them, you can really do any genre you want. You just have to transfer those skills to those people.
- [30:06]
Hey, just a quick break to tell you that since you're here listening, you have access to a really great offer for our listeners only. We have a special promo code you can use to get 50 off the cost of membership. Just go to theportraitsystem.com or click the link in the description and use the promo code POT50 to get 50% off of a membership. We rarely discount membership, so this is a big deal. As I hope you already know, the membership is how I and so many guests on this podcast reached our success. And it gives you access to countless amazing videos, an awesome community, and all the tools you need to build a massively successful business. So use the code podcast50Now to join the community and to start building the business business of your dreams.
- [30:48]
I'll see you there.
- [30:51]
Emma Berkasel
Absolutely. I think it. I think it came really, really easy to transfer from one genre to another because once you have the basics, you just need to know what you want to do.
- [31:06]
Nikki Klosser
So how did you end up falling into attorneys and CEOs? You know, more of the sort of high end business people, really. I mean, I know you said you had that connection with your friend Nicole, but what. How did that happen?
- [31:20]
Emma Berkasel
I photographed one of her probably high school friends and I did photograph their families. And at the end I told him, I remember him being a CEO and his mom wanted this big giant family photo shoot. So I built a whole set for them because it was Christmas and nobody else wanted to work on Christmas and photograph such a large family. And at the end, because he was from another country, I said, can I take a portrait of you? I'm pretty sure your mom would truly love that. So he started using those portraits as headshots for his company and he answered Nicole's post and he referred me to her. So I just reached out to her immediately. I feel like momentum is a Pretty big thing. And once I see my name on a Facebook post or brought up, I will reach out to the client. And every time they would talk about or somebody would comment on Nicole's images, I would engage with them because I wanted to do more of that. I love the photo shoot. I love that. And just seeing people, how they. Seeing a whole new level of confidence in them, it's what attracted me to it. Because nobody wants to like an idiot of the camera.
- [32:57]
Nikki Klosser
Yeah. I mean, that's amazing. And sometimes it does. It just takes that one person. That person can be such an evangelist for you, and you never know who that's going to be like. Little did you know that this family shoot would really help revolutionize your headshot personal branding business.
- [33:11]
Emma Berkasel
Absolutely. And the funny thing is that a couple of months after, I have this amazing client coming in my studio. Her name is Shannon Smith. She is one of the most recognizable attorneys in Michigan because of the type of cases she does. And when I photographed her, she's been one of the most amazing women that helped me in my business because she referred me to every single person. You know how we tend to keep secret, you know, when we get something really nice and we just keep it for ourselves. But she was so given, and she referred me to everybody, and I talked to her and she said, emma, I. I just. I just want you to do good. I just want you to do good. And I know this. This would be good for you. And it. It brought me to. To a place where you feel so full of gratitude when you are surrounded by people and have clients who truly are on the same level as you. And I am not talking about anything. I'm talking about that you want to help people, you want people around you to do good, you want to support them. And this is what she did for me, and I could connect on that level with her. And. And it's pretty amazing because if it wasn't for Shannon, I don't think I would be where I am with my business. Am I being really fortunate? Yes. But I feel like in everybody's life, we have that one person or that one moment that if we keep on working on our business and if we keep on educating ourselves and if we keep on, you know, not stopping when it's really hard, we will be in a place where it. It takes off and it gets better.
- [35:29]
Nikki Klosser
It is. It's a combination of that incredibly hard work and taking the steps that you need to grow a business, working on all parts of it, the marketing, your skills, networking with people and then, like you said, sometimes that one person that you meet can really just help elevate you and just really change things. So, yes, that one person is. Can absolutely be so, so important. But if you hadn't been the person that you are and didn't have the work that you have and the abilities that you have and everything that you've built, she never would have lifted you the way that she did. So, yes, it is that person. And it's also, you have to be the type of person that people want to elevate. Does that make sense?
- [36:23]
Emma Berkasel
It's. It's a very hard place for me to accept compliments if you call them this way, but thank you. Thank you.
- [36:35]
Nikki Klosser
Yeah, you're welcome. You deserve it, for sure. I can actually think of two people who have elevated me in my business, in my life, and sue is, you know, obviously, I speak very highly of her. She's that person to me. She's that person. She didn't build my business or anything, and she didn't get me clients, not in that way. But she elevated me as a person and to grow as a human being, to become the person that I've always wanted to be and to build the life that I've wanted to be. And she will never take credit for that. She's like, no, you did the work. And I know I've said that before, but I bet you if Shannon, this attorney, if you said this to her, that she's the one who changed your business, I guarantee you she would say, no. Emma, you did the work. I just told people about you.
- [37:18]
Emma Berkasel
She said. She said that before. She's humble that way. But, you know, I just want to comment about sue because I feel like she was the main person where I got what I needed. At every point in my business. I learned how to connect with people from her. I learned how not to give up. She was so open about her journey and about her struggles in every area in her life. Not only business, but. And I was able to get. To get strength from that and be inspired. And every time, even right now, when I. When I go to a photo shoot and it's a little more difficult, I. I do go into surprise education, and I rewatch how to pose groups, you know, and how to. How to do different poses, because it doesn't matter how many clients you have, you get stuck into. Into your ways. And if you don't go back to the basics, you are not able to grow. And the more you go back to the basics and the more you learn the More your. Let's call it artistic eye, or your brain is able to come up with new ways for you in life and for posing and. And for how to run your business. It doesn't have to be what sue said, you know, like, do this, but your brain picks up all that information that you learn and comes up with solutions for your problems.
- [39:10]
Nikki Klosser
That's very wise. You're exactly right. And to have that education to go back to, I'm the same. I revisit as well. Because if we don't, if we just assume we know it all and we, you know, don't need to further our education. And like you said, we get stuck in our. Our way. We get stuck in a rut and practicing and going back to the basics. Like you said, it's just. It's so important, and I feel like it can set you apart from the photographer who grows and the photographer who doesn't.
- [39:40]
Emma Berkasel
I think we all grow up to a certain level, you know, because you have to learn to get to a certain level. And then if you stop learning, you know, then you stop growing and you stop being creative and you stop being different than somebody else, and you just fall behind.
- [40:02]
Nikki Klosser
Agreed. Now, and speaking of growing, I know that you said that your session fee, when you went from jumped from the $50 to 100 session fee and then 500 for your photos. Have you stayed there or have you grown from that pricing model?
- [40:17]
Emma Berkasel
Oh, no, absolutely. You cannot build a business with $500 for session fee or for a session. Right now, I did raise my prices right after probably seven years ago, I did raise my prices. The booking fee was $250, and I regularly increased my seed. Let's put in my digitals. You know, at first I. I did $1200 for the CD, so that would bring me an average of fourteen fifty dollars per session. Because I wasn't selling individual images. I wanted. I wanted to make it easier on me and on my family. And the workflow of just selling one or two images, it was too much for me. And trust me, I tried selling prints and I tried selling wall art. It just didn't fit in with my family lifestyle. And I am not saying family lifestyle in that we were traveling a lot or it just was too much.
- [41:36]
Nikki Klosser
Emma, I can relate. Yep. There's no shame in that. We all run our business with how it's best for us and our family. And I was very similar, which is why personal branding became my bread and butter, because I. It didn't fit into my lifestyle, family situation. Either, so.
- [41:52]
Emma Berkasel
Oh, yes.
- [41:53]
Nikki Klosser
Yeah, I can relate.
- [41:54]
Emma Berkasel
Raising two little boys is hard because I feel like our boys are pretty much the same distance apart. And it is hard. It is very, very hard. And then five years ago, I also had my daughter and it was five years between them. It was just starting all over again.
- [42:13]
Nikki Klosser
Oh, right, right, yes.
- [42:15]
Emma Berkasel
And having another baby, having two little boys in school, it was too much. So from twelve hundred dollars I actually priced myself. When I started doing personal branding, I had to sell images by files. So each image I started with $100 and then I raised it to $190. And right now my booking fee is 250. And you can either choose one image for 190 or you can buy a bundle of 10 for 1500. And usually clients buy about two bundles, 50% of them and 50% they stay with one bundle. I very rarely had personal branding client that just purchased only five images.
- [43:02]
Nikki Klosser
That's fantastic. So that puts your average sale right around 2000.
- [43:05]
Emma Berkasel
Yes.
- [43:06]
Nikki Klosser
Plus the session fee.
- [43:07]
Emma Berkasel
Yes.
- [43:07]
Nikki Klosser
Yeah. That's amazing. That's amazing. Think about where you were before and, you know, where you're at now and how, how often are you shooting on location?
- [43:16]
Emma Berkasel
It's their studio or. I go to a law firm. I shoot two days a week and I have set days so I can make my workflow really easy. And the other three days a week I do edit and I have consultations with my cl. Because it is very important to me that I connect with my clients before our photo shoot. I do go and meet with them in person most of the time because that brings everybody on the same level. And especially when you have a hard time communicating, it's very. It can go very wrong when somebody is speaking about what they want and you understand something different, you know, so the communication process can be broken somewhere. I personally do not want to disappoint a client, especially when they give a whole day, which is a whole lot of billable hours. And we want to make sure we are on the same page. So communication is huge for me. I actually also create mood boards for them with inspiration so we can make sure everybody knows what they are going to wear. And everybody knows the posing. Well, not necessarily posing, but just the feel of the images, you know, and the feel of if they want portraits or headshots or just simple images of themselves for social media or Facebook.
- [44:43]
Nikki Klosser
Yeah, I love this because the communication really is important because like you said, the feel of the image, I mean, someone standing with the arms sort of crossed, posed, that you often See, in headshots, that's going to communicate more of like a power, like, I'm in charge sort of thing. Whereas if the team doesn't want to communicate that, then they're not going to love the photos when they see those poses. But if, you know, ahead of time.
- [45:09]
Emma Berkasel
Yes.
- [45:09]
Nikki Klosser
That they do want that sort of I'm in charge power pose, then heck, yeah, you know, to do that pose. So it really is so important to know what their vision is, and I love that you do that ahead of time.
- [45:19]
Emma Berkasel
Well, it is really different because when I got into the law community to photograph personal branding, I had to actually learn and understand and ask questions. And I learned that, you know, there are so many types of law, and there are family law, and there is criminal law, and there's estate law, and each of those industries, each of those categories, they have different type of clients. So when you are trying to get a divorce client that is looking for a lot of nurturing and hand holding, you probably do not want to come across very, very harsh.
- [46:05]
Nikki Klosser
Right.
- [46:05]
Emma Berkasel
If you are a criminal defense attorney, you definitely do not want to look extremely nurturing.
- [46:12]
Nikki Klosser
Exactly. Nail on the head right there. And I think sometimes people forget that, that our clients have different. There are different clients who want to be perceived in different ways.
- [46:22]
Emma Berkasel
Absolutely.
- [46:23]
Nikki Klosser
Across the board. Even families, I mean, even just, you know, woman who comes in to celebrate. It's. Everyone has a way that they want to be portrayed, and it's our job to find out what that is.
- [46:34]
Emma Berkasel
Yes, I completely agree.
- [46:36]
Nikki Klosser
Yeah. Well, I'm really, really proud of you. I just. I love this. I love everything that you've created and built. And I love too, that, you know, you shared that you tried the whole print situation and selling wall art and that wasn't for you. I mean, we've had guests on this podcast who that is their bread and butter. They make a killing selling wall art and prints, and they love to do that. And that fits with their lifestyle. And then you have people who don't want to do it that way. And it just goes to show that you get to take a business model and make it your own, pretty much. I think everyone who I've interviewed for this podcast has built their business using Sue's business model in some way. And it's not all cookie cutter and it's not all the same, and you get to make it your own. And you're a really great example of that. I mean, you've got this really cool niche of in the law field that who would have known that that was even something that you could get into like that. So thank you. It's really cool. It's a great example. Yeah.
- [47:36]
Emma Berkasel
Thank you.
- [47:37]
Nikki Klosser
I'm very proud of you.
- [47:38]
Emma Berkasel
Thank you.
- [47:38]
Nikki Klosser
Two girls in a little town in Michigan and studios on opposite corners of the street from each other, and we both are managing to have really great incomes.
- [47:49]
Emma Berkasel
Absolutely.
- [47:51]
Nikki Klosser
Yeah. It's pretty cool.
- [47:52]
Emma Berkasel
Absolutely. I feel like sometimes it comes down to priorities. I had to be very honest with my priorities. And then what's important to me in life, and is it important to me to be successful? Absolutely. But when I sat down and I analyzed and I put it all on paper, first of all, I am a mom, and I want to have a successful family, and you have to invest time in that. I still feel like I'm not giving enough. I'm pretty sure even my kids would love to have more of me, but for me, that was my priority, and I had to make my business run to be able to support what I truly wanted from life.
- [48:46]
Nikki Klosser
And that's what it comes down to. Absolutely. I love that you just said that. Our business helps us create what we want out of life.
- [48:55]
Emma Berkasel
That's powerful.
- [48:56]
Nikki Klosser
It really is. Well, I really appreciate you sharing your story, and I know our listeners are going to appreciate it as well, because you've just. You're definitely an inspiration, for sure.
- [49:08]
Emma Berkasel
Thank you.
- [49:08]
Nikki Klosser
And I'm glad you just said thank you.
- [49:12]
Emma Berkasel
I had to learn. It was hard. I had to learn to say one word. Thank you.
- [49:19]
Nikki Klosser
Okay, so I do have a couple questions for you that I ask everyone at the end of each episode. And number one is, what is something you can't live without when you're photographing?
- [49:30]
Emma Berkasel
I am not sure if anybody else said that, but what I am absolutely grateful for as my Goddock slides the 8200, because I am. I'm short. I'm 5:1, and I work by myself. I don't work with assistants. I feel like it. It just interrupts that client connection. I have to carry a lot of equipment with me, and just having something so compact and easy to put in a bag and go to a photo shoot, that's. It's priceless.
- [50:05]
Nikki Klosser
Yeah, definitely. No, I don't think anyone has said anything like that, so I'm glad you said that. Cool. Number two, how do you spend your time when you're not photographing family? Yeah, I figured you would say that. Yeah.
- [50:18]
Emma Berkasel
You know, probably in the future, it will change. But as for right now, until my children are a little older, I do enjoy it. You know, sometimes it's it's hard, especially you know, right now in quarantine. But that's what I am. At peace, at home with my husband and my children.
- [50:38]
Nikki Klosser
Beautiful. I love it. Okay, number three, what's your favorite inspirational quote?
- [50:44]
Emma Berkasel
That is a hard one because I do have a few. I do have a few. But there's this quote that truly speaks to, to me and encourages me a lot. And it says when you reach the end of the rope, tie a knot and hang on.
- [51:05]
Nikki Klosser
It's an amazing quote.
- [51:06]
Emma Berkasel
It is.
- [51:07]
Nikki Klosser
Do you know who said it? I'm trying to think of who said it.
- [51:09]
Emma Berkasel
It is a code that they credit Franklin Roosevelt. It's just an old code that's been since 1500. I'm just assuming Franklin Roosevelt used that in one of his speeches.
- [51:24]
Nikki Klosser
Right, right. So, yeah, who knows where the original origin of but is of but I'm glad that it's. Yeah. Glad that it's still around.
- [51:31]
Emma Berkasel
Yeah. It applies to us as photographers too because we do go through so many changes in lives and because we are learning something new. Especially in the beginning if you work at it and if you learn and sometimes when like hard time comes, you just have to, you just have to wait and let it pass.
- [51:55]
Nikki Klosser
Absolutely. All right, number four, what would you say to people who are just getting started? Emma?
- [52:01]
Emma Berkasel
I think it ties within with my code. Just put one foot in front of the other and you'll, you'll make it.
- [52:08]
Nikki Klosser
That's great advice. I mean sometimes that it is just a matter of doing one thing each day. Just keep moving forward. It might not be huge steps or huge jumps, but if you don't keep moving forward, you don't get anywhere.
- [52:20]
Emma Berkasel
Yeah.
- [52:21]
Nikki Klosser
So what's next for you?
- [52:24]
Emma Berkasel
I'm exploring a few things, not photography related. I don't know where life is going to take me. All I want to do is just make a difference in people's lives. And I think I'm at the cross point between am I going to have photography as my career or am I going to move on. And probably photography is always going to be in my heart and I am pretty sure I'm still going to run my business for at least five to six to, to seven years. But I'm exploring new, new things because you know, you get to a point in your life where you want to live with a purpose and you change and your purpose changes and your way of viewing life and things changes and you don't know where you are going to end up. But probably if we talking about two years, we'll see.
- [53:27]
Nikki Klosser
That's so beautiful. You've said so many beautiful things.
- [53:30]
Emma Berkasel
Thank you.
- [53:30]
Nikki Klosser
You know, and you're right. Life does. We grow and we change and our purpose changes and. And that's okay. And if people are looking for you online, where can they find you?
- [53:39]
Emma Berkasel
Emmabarcosell.com and I am everywhere on, you know, Instagram and Facebook. Same. Emma Berkusel. It's a hard name.
- [53:49]
Nikki Klosser
Yeah, I'll spell it out for people. It's E M M A B U R C U S E L. Yes.
- [53:57]
Emma Berkasel
Right.
- [53:58]
Nikki Klosser
Did I do that right? Okay.
- [53:59]
Emma Berkasel
Absolutely.
- [54:00]
Nikki Klosser
I always thought it was Bercassel, but it's Bercosel.
- [54:03]
Emma Berkasel
It's. It's my husband's name. I had to take him up on that offer.
- [54:08]
Nikki Klosser
I love it. It's been so great talking with you. I really, really enjoyed it. And thank you again. And I'm sure I will see you around Plymouth at some point once we're allowed to get out.
- [54:17]
Emma Berkasel
Absolutely. I would love to have a lunch with you.
- [54:20]
Nikki Klosser
Yeah, that sounds great. I would love that too. All right, Amma, you take care and we will talk soon.
- [54:24]
Emma Berkasel
Thank you. You too.
- [54:25]
Nikki Klosser
Nikki, thank you so much for listening to the Portrait System podcast. Your 5 star reviews really help us to continue what we do. So if you like listening, would you mind giving us a review? Wherever you listen? I also encourage you to head over to subriceeducation.com where you can find all of the education you need to be a successful photographer. There are over 1000 on demand educational videos on things like posing, lighting, styling, retouching, shooting, marketing, sales, business and self value. There's also the 90 day startup challenge, plus so many downloads showing hundreds of different poses. We have to do checklists for your business, lighting, PDFs. I mean truly everything to help make you a better photographer and to make you more money. Once Again, that's Sue briceducation.com.