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The Practical Planner
Helping clients leave a legacy and facilitate a family meeting with Derrick Kinney
00:35:44
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- [00:00]
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Foreign.
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What is up? And welcome back everyone, to another episode of the Practical Planner podcast. I'm your host, Thomas Goldman. Here with me is Ann Rhodes and Derek Kenny. So, Derek, just want to start out by saying thanks for joining us, man. And let's maybe even just start with a little bit of intro of who you are for those that don't know you.
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A
Well, thanks for having me. First of all, I've looked forward to this conversation for a long time. So I was a longtime financial advisor, 25 years, built a top 1% practice here in the country and sold it about five years ago. And I realized I had a different goal path of things I wanted to accomplish. But I began to get asked by other top advisors, hey, Derek, how can you talk to people so you connect with them more easily? And how can you attract high net worth clients so that they want to work with you and connect with their pain points? And so I developed a framework. And so now a lot of the work I do, which gives me the most meaning and it gives me some money as well, is teaching people what to say and do. So high net worth clients choose you.
- [01:09]
B
Okay, super interesting. And I think for everybody listening, the reason why we brought Derek on, other than the fact that he's really well known, he has a lot of value to add. I mean, he's one of the very few people who actually get to speak at Future Proof. Something we were just talking about here before was a little bit about, you know, I think at the end of the day, estate planning is a lot about, like, fulfilling wishes, you know, helping make sure everything goes the right way. But a lot of it's about legacy, right? Like, what is the legacy that we can leave? And I think you have some really cool client stories on how you've been able to see, you know, through estate planning, through client conversations, just the impact that people have. And so I really kind of want to give you the floor to share some of these client stories so we can just talk about really how legacy, estate planning, all of that can be brought together through some of these, like, family meeting structures that you talk about.
- [01:56]
A
Yeah, you know, estate planning, for most people, it's this dry, boring topic that's guaranteed to put people to sleep. Right. I mean, it's like the ultimate sleep aid. But when you can attach a person and an emotion and a feeling to it, then it becomes real. And that's what happened. I was in the office one day and my phone rang and I recognized the number on the caller id and when I picked up the Receiver. I recognized the voice immediately. It was Dr. Bob. And he was a maxillofacial physician over in Dallas. Highly specialized. Matter of fact, he was an intern resident when JFK was brought into Parkland Hospital. Of all things crazy story. So I recognized his voice, but I also recognized how gravelly his voice sounded. He said, derek, as you know, I've been battling cancer. I just got bad news from the doctor, and it doesn't look good. And as an advisor, when you have relationships with your clients, they're not just client advisor, it's family. And I hurt in that moment. I just felt the weight come down on me hard. And I said, bob, how can I help you right now? And he said, well, Derek, this is going to sound crazy, but would you consider coming over to my house and let's do a family meeting? And so I then took the ball and I ran some ideas by him and I said, you know what, Bob? Why don't we do this? As crazy as this sounds, let's invite your whole family, anybody who wants to be part of this, over to your house. And I want to give them the opportunity to speak life into you and for them to tell you how meaningful you are to them. But also, if you're comfortable with this, give you the opportunity to say what you want to say while you have your health right now. And literally, he broke down in tears on the phone. And I waited a few seconds. He said, derek, that sounds great. Would you lead this? I said, okay. So we set it up for a Saturday morning. And I told my wife before I drove over there, I said, honey, I have a feeling this is going to be one of the hardest things I ever do because I just felt the seriousness and the weight of what was happening. And we set up a camera to video the whole thing because we wanted to have a record of it. I talked to the room and I said, hey, let me just call out what all of you are thinking. But nobody wants to say Dr. Bob is going to die. And the reason he wanted all of us to be here today and all of you, the people he cares and loves the most, is that he wanted to take some time to tell you, each of you, how he feels about you and to give him a chance to talk about his values and what's important to him and how he created this wealth and the things that matter. Because the reality is, as hard as this is to hear, when he passes, some of you are going to receive different gifts. And we don't want you to feel guilty to not know. Well, what would Dr. Bob have wanted you to do with the money? We don't want that guilt to be on your shoulders. And and so this meeting went almost three hours and we started with the family and again I teed it up, told Dr. Bob, I think I'm the one non family member here, but I think of you like a second dad. He was so valuable to my life and had poured into me. And then we just went around the room and there were lots of tears shed that day. But afterwards, as hard as it was, and just a few months later, at the funeral, family members walked up to me one by one and said, Derek, thank you. We've never been part of that, but thank you for giving us the chance to tell him what we thought of him and for him to tell us what he thought of us. And now they had this video record because so many people look back in their family tree and they say, I wonder what Grandpa Smith or Grandma Jones did and what they cared about and what their values were and nobody can tell them. And I just thought this was a moment to change that for this family tree. And even now on the date of his death, I still get a phone call or a DM from a family member thanking me. And that's been many, many years ago now. Hey Derek, thanks for what you did because it was so meaningful for our family.
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B
Wow, that's really powerful. I think, you know the hard part about all of this, right, Is like how do you, how do you facilitate and coach people on this principle for people that don't have like this known end event, right? Because like I think this is extremely powerful, right? Most people, you have your funeral, there's all these nice things said about you. And obviously you've heard the stories of the people that kind of have like the, the living funeral type thing when they feel these events. Like I want people to come kind of share a little bit about how much you mean to them, what you care about them. I love in this side though too that it was centered around him actually sharing to everybody else what they mean to him. Like it wasn't meant for him to be like, I want to be self centered and it wouldn't be anyways, but to be like, hey, just tell me what's great about me. I actually want to bring you here to tell you what's great about you. But how do we facilitate this idea as advisors potentially to clients? And how do we facilitate it when people don't kind of have this like idea of hey, I have something terminal.
- [07:25]
A
You know, it's interesting because you're forcing people to deal with. With their ultimate death and their imminent demise. And most people don't want to talk about that. And what I found is words equal wealth. And if you use the right words at the right time, with the right tone, oftentimes you get a better result. And so what I would talk with our clients about, and even I coach advisors now on as part of the planning process, you know, we created a plan custom tailored while you're living, but also that is equally as effective if and when you were to die. And so we begin to get their buy in on the fact that, okay, so dying is part of the process, as crazy as that is. Yeah, part of the planning process includes at some point, you dying. Now the question though is it's not just your death, but what legacy do you want to leave? In other words, let's just get vain and non humble about it. Or what do you want people to say about you when you die? And they get to thinking about, well, I want to be remembered as a loving father and a caring son and a devoted business person. And what happens was something I did not see coming. And that was they verbalized what they wanted. But then, Thomas, the shocking part was they began to work on living out a better version of what they wanted to be remembered as. It was like this living eulogy that they wanted to practice every day. And so we began to have families that would bring in even some of their children to these visits in our office now to talk about that. And also, one of the things that was an extension was so much money is transferred at a death, but oftentimes financially, and this is borne out in many, many surveys, the kids really don't need it. Let's say now they're in their 60s or 70s and now I get this inheritance. Well, what am I going to do with that? But instead, a strategic part of kicking the tires from an estate planning standpoint is this gifting strategy where the parents can actually watch in real time. I've given money to my kids or my grandkids. I get to watch them while the stakes are low to see what they do with the money, which then gives them confidence to give them even more to reduce their estate. And then it becomes more strategy. But. But part of that living legacy is they get to watch the impact all of the fruits of their labor had, so they actually can see those kids use it.
- [10:04]
B
That's really interesting.
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C
What I love about what you're saying, Derek, if I could just jump in is you Know, so often I think, you know, as a financial advisor, you're probably thinking, you know, I, I'm here to talk about the money, right, and how it passes, and I might have helped this person set up an estate plan on how to distribute the money. But when you get down to it, none of clients are really thinking about the money. They're thinking about values, they're thinking about legacy in ways that are more than just the financial component. And I think, I love what you're saying because by prompting your client to think about what their legacy would be, you might actually be walking them away from thinking it's all about the money as well and living out, you know, those, those actual values that they care most about. Money is really just a conduit to being able to do something with it, not necessarily for its own sa. Right. And so when I think about, you know, some of these meetings that I've had with clients, we focus so much on, you know, the potential for conflict and how you minimize that through an estate plan. You focus so much on, you know, is this child responsible and is this the way that you would want to spend the money and then controlling that through a trust or something like this. But truthfully, what I love about your position as a financial planner and the folks who are listening is that you can actually step beyond that because you have this long standing relationship with these people and being able to step into that role almost of, you know, fireside. Fireside Chad moderator. Right. You're, you've been there, but you don't have a stake in the conversations that are happening. You just want to facilitate. That can be such a powerful role that you play. And without that facilitation, maybe that family wouldn't even have thought to do this. Right. And so I love the way that you're painting this, Derek. I think it's really powerful.
- [12:01]
A
Well, thank you. And it's interesting because one of the libel moments I had was, you know, there's obviously a lot of different estate planning techniques and strategies and the documents are pretty thick and so forth. But what I began to realize as sort of strange as this may sound, is that actually the advisor I am actually the living estate planning document, meaning it's up to me to give my words meaning to them, to cause them to take action. And let me tell you a quick story. So one of the things that I found in, not only in my own practice, but now observing top advisors in terms of them working with high net worth clients and kind of guiding them to take actions that they're uncomfortable with is the words you use really matter. And one of the things that we found is that if the advisor sounds nervous, unsure, cautious, hesitant, the prospect or the client sniffs that out immediately. Now, I'm told, like a tarantula, even sometimes like animals, if they sense that you're scared, they're going to attack you. But if they sense your confidence, they leave you alone. Okay, so that's an example I would give. But when you think about your relationship with your client, what I like to say is the words you give meaning are what they take action on. So, for example, if I were to say to the client, hey, I want to talk about your estate planning now, well, that doesn't derive any type of emotional connection or meaning at all. But instead, if I give my words what I like to call pre, meaning, if I were to say, thomas, could I ask you a personal question? And by the way, you don't have to answer it if you don't want to. Well, Thomas is going to kind of lean and say, well, sure. Well, what that did is instead of me asking, hey, what do you think about estate planning? Because I gave pre meaning and I denoted that this is going to be an important question. Well, now we can go deeper in the relationship. I like to call this the deeper end of the pool. And I can ask at some point, and I don't like even saying this, but at some point, you are going to die. And my job, what you've hired me to do as your advisor, is to help you fund the life you've always wanted. But also part of my job, selfishly on your behalf, is to help craft the messaging and the life that we want people to talk about you after you die. What do you want people to say about you? And then that dialogue from what they say they want people to say about them then leads us almost on this GPS estate planning roadmap of what documents do they need to create the result they want. But it all starts with the advisor easing them in and connecting emotionally with not just, hey, we have to talk about this, but framing it in a way of what it is that you want so that your legacy is what you want it to be.
- [15:10]
B
It's really powerful. What it's interesting to me to think about, right, is so as a financial advisor, I think most of us understand how to do this in the financial side, hey, let's say talk about your goals, let's talk about where you're going, let's align your money with that. But I think then this next side for some advisors is like, oh, is that too personal? You know, when do I facilitate this conversation? Is this early on? Is this years later down the line? Because if all of a sudden, you know, I'm working with a 35 year old client, they have young kids, right? Like, there's a lot of financial planning, there's the basic estate planning documents. They're not really thinking about how do we want money to be used and what's important to our legacy quite yet. And so like, when you think about this, like, what is the touch point for advisors to do? This is it, hey, I've been working with you for a few years now. You know, we have a really good relationship. And now I can steer you there because I can see the, hey, you're a referral. We've met three times, we're getting into estate planning and I want you to share like the deepest values, the things that you want people to think about you. And then I want to figure out, how do we actually change your life to make sure people do feel that way about you. Like, I think this, where is that right touch point is so important that you don't. If you do it at the wrong time, it's obviously not going to go well.
- [16:23]
A
I know you're exactly right. And there's a word I like to use that has been highly effective and that is the word crazy. If I say, hey, Thomas, do you want to do something crazy? It just sort of appeals to like, yeah, let's do it. Or if I say to Ann, hey, let's go to this new crazy place to eat. Okay, that sounds great. Because it appeals to this side of us that like, just wants to cut loose a little bit. What I find is you need to have these discussions earlier than you feel like you're comfortable having the discussions. Okay, so let's say in the example you just gave, client comes in, they've been with you a few months, they've got young kids. Well, what you want to do is position it as, hey, we've been working together, we've got the financial plan in place. Could I get your permission to ask you a crazy question? Well, by denoting it as a crazy question, then you can say whatever you want because you've already labeled it as pre crazy. Listen, I know you're young, your kids are young, but you work so hard and I know you care so deeply about your family. Would you allow me to take you to a place that you're probably not going to feel very comfortable? And that is, God forbid, if something happened to either of both of you, could we take a few minutes to talk about what would happen and most importantly, what is it that you both want to happen to your legacy, to the kids, etc. And then you're asking them permission to go to this crazy place, they might then say, you know what? No, I'm not comfortable with that. Okay, great. But the key is because you addressed it in a way that said, hey, no harm, no foul, they respect you for bringing it up. So what I would tell people is advisors can talk about anything. It's all about the words they use and how they approach it. Even if the client is resistant to. Even we had clients who didn't want to talk about it until their deathbed. And even then they just said, you know what? I'm not going to talk about my death, okay? And we knew that was part of the going to be a problem, but they respected the fact that we kept bringing it up on a regular basis. And most importantly, their kids and their family members, because of our summary letters and documentation, they knew that we brought it up as well. So I find if you use the right words, no one ever yells at you for caring too much about them.
- [19:02]
C
I have also perhaps a more simplistic question, but how do you set up the meeting? Like the physical space, do you think about what kind of surrounding environment you're in when you bring up this question, do you time it so that within a half hour or an hour long meeting, where do you bring up that question so you leave enough time so that you're not running to your next meeting and all of a sudden interrupting something that is a very important communication from your client about this very sensitive topic. Set up the stage for us as well.
- [19:41]
A
Yeah, that's a great question. One of the things, and let me kind of draw a contrast here, let's say that there's a couple who, they meet each other and they're in this dating relationship and they can tell that I really like this person. The other person says, I like this person. And they talk about when should I bring up money? And I say, you want to bring it up early in the relationship because you don't want to fall in love with the person first, then realize there are some financial red flags in the relationship. I take that same approach with all of our clients as well, and the advisors that we now work with and consult with. And that is early on, you want to set the stage of, hey, in our next visit together, would you be willing to talk about a crazy and probably very Uncomfortable topic and get their permission. Well, what do you want to talk about? Well, as much time as we're devoting to crafting this customized game plan for your financial goals and helping you achieve what you want while you're living part of my job, I really wouldn't be a good financial advisor if we didn't talk through, God forbid, what would happen if. If something happened to either of you and what happens to the kids and what you want your legacy to be. I know it's uncomfortable. Most people don't want to talk about it, but I wouldn't be a good advisor if I just let it go. Would you be willing to have that crazy conversation at our next visit? Okay, pause. So what I did there was, is we set the stage for what's next. Now, the worst thing you can do with estate planning is the shock and awe approach. Hey, by the way, out of the blue, what's going to happen if you die? Whoa. That just blows people's hair back. Instead, you want to be very controlled. And again, part of the trust that you're building as the advisor is you're the one leading them through sort of the minefield to make sure they don't step in the wrong place and something blows up. You're guiding them through these pieces. And so when you lead them to that and then give them. Because they'll forget the next visit. And by the way, I don't use the term meetings. Client meeting is what you have with your proctologist. It's cold, it's dark, it's only numbers. A visit is warm and inviting with people you care about. So we always have client visits. So I'd say. So for our next visit, here's what I want to talk about. If you're comfortable. And then I would call them personally a week before the visit. Hey, just wanted to refresh your memory. Would you still be comfortable talking about what's probably going to be a crazy, uncomfortable topic when we visit together next week? It re. Reminds them, gets them in the mindset. It gets them ready.
- [22:26]
C
And Derek, what do you do about the spouse in that situation? Let's say, you know, I think, you know, especially these days, I feel like spouses are very good at splitting up tasks. And one spouse might be the primary point of contact for you in that couple. And you, you might be, you know, used to be communicating primarily with one member. So in that moment, when do you think about bringing in the spouse who is perhaps the secondary relationship in that couple?
- [23:01]
A
Yeah. Yeah. This topic, in my opinion, not that it's always right is not where the game of telephone is very effective. Hey, can you tell your wife or tell your husband this and report back? Because this stuff is so complicated and so emotional, things get left out and feelings can get hurt and relationships can get hurt. So if I'm meeting with one person, let's say I'm only meeting with the female. The male is not involved at all. I let her know, hey, this next visit, it's going to be very important to have your husband join us as well. Well, why do I have to do that? Well, it's because this involves both of you. I know you're the primary, but this topic, I really want to make sure that we hear his thoughts, your thoughts, and then we have a strategy in place. Would you be comfortable with that? And again, I always like to use the words comfortable. And do you feel like that's reasonable? Comfortable and reasonable give you some movement in terms of a range where people don't typically get alarmingly motivated on the negative side. Does that feel reasonable to you? She might say, I'm not comfortable with that at all. Okay, well, at least you've had the discussion. We're going to shut it down, this point here. But the key is you keep asking in a way where it's part of the process. I would always just joke, listen, I wouldn't be the advisor that you want me to be if we don't have this discussion because it's such a key part of the overall financial plan. And then I'll also mention sometimes you ever heard the term generational wealth? There's these families that they have wealth and they work so hard like you both have, and it seems like the wealth travels through the generations. They're like, yeah, well, it's this conversation that is the lead of that. In other words, those families had this very conversation as well. That's why it's so important for me to have it with you. And so when they hear that, oh, okay. It gives them color as to why it's important. But again, this, to me, this discussion is very permission based. And if there's resistance, I would then ask, if you don't mind me asking you a personal question, Anna, why is this topic sort of so off limits for you? I just want to keep asking personal questions to keep my shovel out and keep digging because that's where you're going to keep building that deeper level of trust.
- [25:21]
B
Yeah, I love that. I think a lot of this just shows how powerful asking the right questions are. But also like reading the room deciding how much further do you go potentially, you've asked a few good questions. You realize like, okay, that's probably enough for today. You don't want to make anybody feel uncomfortable, but you're still kind of like, like, you know, putting those seeds in there to, to eventually get there. So I think that's really great. I think the other thing too that's good about this is it actually does create some good planning opportunities and decisions, right? Like, you know, what do you want if something did happen to you can bring in like the life insurance conversation, what's needed there, right? Like, you find a lot of spouses don't have that conversation. And one spouse is like, oh, my other spouse could go back and work if I passed away. And the other spouse is like, wait, what? Like you passed away? I want to make sure I could be with our kids. And then there's childcare costs can also help determine, like I'm really scared of like, hey, we pass away young and my kids get money really young, and what if they go waste that money away? So it can lead into different trust and distribution rules. You know, I think a lot of good things can happen from this conversation by actually having it differing than you just need to go get your estate plan done, go talk to attorney and like have it be a checkbox.
- [26:30]
A
One thing I would add too is let culture be your friend. So let's say that in the news a rock star just passed away and you think that your client likely knows that rock star, you could say, hey, just so you know, I saw in the news that so and so just passed away. And it reminded me again how important it is to have this estate planning conversation. And I say this to the client. I mean, you read the stories of these famous people, wealthy people, and then what messes up the whole family? They didn't have some estate planning documents in place that really screwed things up. Listen, again, I wouldn't be the advisor that you want me to be if I didn't bring this up so that that doesn't happen to you. So sometimes when we make it less about this estate planning 10 pound book that we're dropping on the desk and they've got to do all this stuff if we just talk about, hey, this is real life and real people struggle with it. And it's only because of my unending level of care for is why I keep bringing this up. That's why it's important. And when people sense how much you care about them, they may not want to talk about it, but again, it keeps building up the level of respect and trust they have in you as the trusted advisor.
- [27:48]
B
Yeah, yeah. I recently had a buddy pass away at 29 years old. And you know, that was, you know, I didn't really want to use it as a lesson, but I felt like I had to use it as a lesson because, you know, nobody thinks that's going to happen to them. And as I think about this conversation, right, like, you know, the example I to used as a 35 year old, right. My friend passed away at 29. He left an amazing legacy. Like, you know, going to the funeral, seeing all the people, all the friends, like all the, you know, conversations we all had, it was a pretty incredible legacy that he had. But I can only imagine the power if he actually got to have that while being here. And I think that's one of the coolest things about these conversations. And so even when you're young, like, how do we have these conversations? Like that family boardroom type idea that you have, Like, I mean, you could maybe even take this further and like this could be, hey, you have a big 30th birthday, or you have a big 40th birthday, you have friends there, like, hey, is there any cool ways to kind of intertwine this? And then you can actually see, like if the legacy idea that you have in your mind is translating. Because a lot of people, maybe they're not good at reading the room, maybe they're not good at understanding how people see them. And so, you know, I think part of this is like, hey, here's the legacy that you want, but also like, like, are you doing the things to match that legacy? And if people aren't viewing you in that way, then you know, who's somebody in your life you view in that way, what are the things that they do to make that stand out and make people feel that way. And I think sometimes people hear that and think then you're like kind of faking your way to something. And I don't think you are. Right. Like, it's just trying to be, you know, what are the attributes and the qualities and the things that you, you need to do and emulate to be that type of person. Right? That's just called self work and improving. That isn't called like fake.
- [29:23]
A
Yeah, I think that's a great point. And one story that pops into my mind is there was a client that we had worked with for many, many years and she had been very, very resistant to using life insurance as an estate planning vehicle. She'd read different things and heard different things. And what I realized was that an advisor, you can't be afraid of what a client might say to you. You can't advise out of fear. Then you're doing the client a disservice. So I kept after her and kept after her, and I said, well, let me approach this idea a different way. You told me that providing education funds for your nephew is very, very important. If anything ever happened to you, do you have enough cash on hand right now that's liquid that can make that happen? Well, no, I don't. Well, this tool based on your goals and your desires and your legacy would allow you to do that. And at last, she relented and said, okay, let's go ahead and do it. I got to tell you, it wasn't two months later, after the policy was approved that she got a cancer diagnosis and would not have been able to get that policy. And even months after the funeral, when her nephew came up and said, hey, I didn't know much about the details, but I heard that you guided her, my aunt, to buy this policy. Thank you for doing that. And even another advisor that she worked with on the side thanked me for having the discussion that she kept rebuffing him on as well. But somehow the words I had used connected with her. And ultimately, as advisors, we have to be willing to risk some blowback from the client when we know we're clearly doing what's in their best interest. If we don't bring the idea and push it a bit and they don't take advantage of it, that's really on us. And that's the burden as an advisor that I would carry. So it's up to them to say no, but it's up to us to make sure that they know what options are best for them.
- [31:31]
B
Yeah, I love that. I think that's super powerful, and I think it just shows the impact that we can have as advisors. And it reminds me of the quote from Carl Richards that's like, you know, he told his visor that, you know, he would never fire him for telling him something that he needs to hear, but he would definitely fire him if he doesn't. If he doesn't tell him. Right. And a lot of advisors, you know, they're worried about their business. They're worried about getting new clients. They're worried about keeping their clients, and they're scared to tell people what they actually need to hear. But at the end of the day, that's our job, right? We can't say that we're doing a good job if we can't be that third party, unbiased opinion. Tell them the good, tell them the bad, tell them the blind spots. You know, all of those different things are really important for us to do.
- [32:12]
A
And what I would say to that too, I completely agree. And that is, it's always good to preface with your words what people are thinking because then it takes the issue away. So, for example, if I know a client doesn't like an idea, then I directly say to the client, hey, I, what I'm about to say to you, you are not going to like and you're probably going to want to kick me out of the office, but I need to bring it up. Are you okay with that? Well, now they're like, okay, sure. Because what I did is I articulated out loud what they were thinking about in their mind. Therefore it became a non issue. And so when you have a complicated or controversial or difficult issue, just use those words and say, hey, I now need to talk to you about something that might make you feel very uncomfortable. You might not like it, you might even get upset with me for bringing it up. But because I care about you, can I have your permission to bring it up? Okay. And so by using the words to preface, I like to say give it pre meaning you totally disarm the situation. Doesn't mean they'll say yes, but at least they won't get upset with you and they'll actually respect you more for having the courage and the boldness to bring up topics the most other advisors or other people in their lives don't care to do.
- [33:36]
B
That's really smart. Yeah, I think that's really good coaching and something I think every advisor can take away. And I think it's a great way to end the episode. So, Derek, we really appreciate you coming on, sharing all this. I think, you know, the takeaways here are, you know, I love the family board meeting. I think a lot of us can really work on our language. Like how do we, you know, when we're scared of bringing something up, what is the language that we can use to kind of of, you know, make it okay? And I know that's a weird way of saying it, but like create the framework, create the room for people to actually receive what you're saying. And I think as an advisor, that's going to be a hard thing, but I think something that we can practice and something you can even apply to your personal life with your family, your spouse, et cetera. Right. We're going to have tons of hard conversations. How do we create the environment that the other person can hear it and receive it, even if they don't like to? So appreciate all of that. But before we wrap up, let everybody know, kind of best places to follow you. And obviously we see the book in the background. Feel free to promote the book as well.
- [34:29]
A
Yeah, yeah. LinkedIn is my primary community. Derek Kenny. I post daily there on just practical ways to attract clients and really communicate effectively so that they feel like you get them. The book I wrote a couple years ago called Good Money Revolution, it's this concept of how to make more money and do more good with it. So many advisors I meet, they're burning the candle at both ends and I find if we can connect meaning to their money, it gives them purpose. They want to go help a lot of people so they can do a lot of good as well.
- [35:01]
B
Yep. And then for everybody going to future proof, make sure Derek's gonna be speaking, go listen to him. Obviously you can tell from today he has a lot of value to add. And I'm sure that 20 minute presentation is going to be amazing. But Derek, appreciate the time and good to see you everybody. Thank you for listening. Please don't forget to rate and subscribe and tune back in for our next episode in a couple weeks.
- [35:26]
A
Sam.