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The Practical Planner
How to Make Estate Planning an Essential Part of Any Client’s Financial Plan with Dasarte Yarnway
00:23:15
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- [00:00]
Thomas Coldman
Foreign. What is up? And welcome back to another episode of the Practical Planner podcast. I'm your host, Thomas Coldman. Here with me, David Hahn and a very special, very special guest. One of my great friends on the Altruist podcast last week actually called the best podcaster in the finance industry. And know I'll probably give him credit for that. Maybe the best voice mixed with the best host. But here with us today is Darte Yarnway to Sarte. What's up man? I feel like I haven't seen you in a minute.
- [00:39]
Desarte Yarnway
Yeah, it's been a while. First and foremost, thank you so much for having me on the show. I've been listening and you guys are getting giving very practical and timely tips to advisers all over the country. And kind words from you, Thomas. I, I really appreciate that.
- [00:54]
Thomas Coldman
Yeah man. Well, I'm just excited to see you here at Future Proof and I don't know, probably when this comes out a couple weeks. Always love our time together in person, but really excited to have you on today and just really talk, you know, all things estate planning and you know, you've listened to the podcast. You know, we get in the nitty gritty here but a lot of times we like to bring on advisors like you just to talk a little bit about your experience with estate planning, how we can just, you know, have better outcomes with our clients. So you know, I would actually like to hear a little bit about your journey and helping people with estate planning because I think it's an area where probably 10 years ago, I don't think most financial advisors, unless you're like at an ultra high net worth, you know, maybe family office type place that you were really thinking about estate planning. But I think this whole evolution to be like comprehensive financial planners who touch every area of our clients lives has really shifted that and that's why places like wealth and you know, trust and well and all these other places have been created. But I'd love to hear your journey and kind of like how you have helped clients and really what the. Why do you feel like it's your role?
- [01:59]
Desarte Yarnway
Yeah, first and foremost, let me just introduce myself to your audience. My name is Desarte Yarnway. I am a financial advisor, CEO of Yarnway Wealth Management based here in Northern California, currently in Sacramento, California. I'm also the head of community at Altruist, a startup custodian that's trying to make financial advice better, more affordable and accessible to all. Shout out to my co host Jason Wank, CEO of Altruist. And it's a pleasure to be on the show in terms of my existence. One of the things that I admire about advisors is often you see advisors that are trying to solve for issues, financial issues that they may have had. Right. And I think that those are some of the most passionate advisors, the more purposeful advisors. Right. And the ones that really are leaning in to what their clients need. Now, I say that because I come from humble beginnings, to say the least. Right. My family is from West Africa, Liberia, a country that's gone through two civil wars in a very short time. Unfortunately, I lost my father when I was 12 years old back in 2003. You can do the math if you want to get my age. But he didn't have an estate plan. Right. He left my mom with little two young boys, one of which was my cousin that he went to rescue during the civil war, and me and five older sisters to kind of figure it out. Right. So with that being said, I saw in real time how important it was to have something that left instructions, financial instructions for what to do with your assets or lack thereof, or even things that were of sentimental value for you. So when I see myself serving clients or when I see myself not thinking about my little girls, as I mentioned before we got on the show and sort of the pre show we're having another girl coming in August, I think about these things and how I want to leave my legacy in the future. So first I just wanted to say that like, estate planning is personal. It's personal for the advisor, it's personal for the client. And we have fortunately the information to yield and give to our clients. Right. So they can make these personal decisions easier and more comfortable for themselves.
- [04:17]
Thomas Coldman
I think that's a perfect segue right into this. Right. Like the real life stories that we go through make us better prepared to help others. Right. I think sometimes people assume that like if you've never gone through something, you can't help somebody else. And I don't know if that's true. Right. I think as advisors, naturally we're going to help people go through situations that maybe we haven't experienced, but we've experienced helping people go through. But I do agree that like that real life experience might bring a different level of emotion. But you know, credit me if I'm wrong. But when you talk to your clients, is this a popular story that you bring up with them about estate planning? Just see like, hey, I've lived through this. Here's what it looks like when it doesn't happen. And is that something that really ultimately helps People get it done.
- [05:02]
Desarte Yarnway
Well, I'll say I'm not just overlink openly sharing the story. Right. But as advisors, I think that we're charged with the responsibility to listen twice as much as we talk. And when I feel like the time is right, I do share because we are human, and I think human advice wins. Right. So with that being said, I'm not closed off to sharing my personal story, but at the end of the day, the way that I structure and we can kind of get into the way that I approach financial planning, our services is in 2015, when I first went independent. I'm 24 years old at the time I trademarked this acronym use this mental model called the right planning process. All right? And it's spelled R I I T E. Retirement investments, insurance, taxes, and estate planning. So at the onset of the engagement with all of our clients, they knew that at some point we would be talking about estate planning and how that was a part of the backbone of a solid financial plan. So with that being said, telling the story or not, personalizing it or not. Right. This is one of the tenants of a sound financial plan. So I guess I'll say that our job is to highlight the gaps in our client's plan and to educate them on the importance of why these things should exist within their financial circumstance. Right. So that mental model for me was so important to get people to see, like, hey. And they'll remind me like, hey, we haven't got to estate planning yet. Or I think I might have to review my insurance plan because we're having another kid. Right. Or I'm changing jobs and I'm going to get an increase in salary. I just want to make sure as our lifestyle inflates a little bit, I can have enough coverage. Right. So I think as important as it is to be a human advisor, it's also important to sort of coach your clients into knowing what to look for. Right. So that's one of the things that I was able to do.
- [06:57]
Thomas Coldman
Really well said. I think, you know, if we can stay on this topic and get a little bit into the nitty gritty, I would love to know what this looks like in practice. Right. Like, I think this is a question I get from advisors all the time. Like, I know that we are supposed to talk estate planning, and I know it's important, but what do we talk about? What's my role? How do I help facilitate it? Where in the estate planning process does it come into play? You know, how do you do this in your business?
- [07:23]
Desarte Yarnway
Yeah. As I mentioned before, the right planning process is something that we kind of. It's like our Holy grail. Right. That's our North Star. We're always going to point back and direct ourselves back to that process. So as you know, when you're in the initial engagement, the first thing you're doing is kind of getting to know someone. I think I like you, Thomas, in a way that I don't believe in high pressure sales. I'm not going to force anybody to work with our firm. They're going to make their own decision based on how we do business and our process. And then after that process is a collection of data, which I feel like is one of the most important parts of the engagement, because that gets us to. That helps us to get to know clients outside of the pleasantries. Right. It's like this data doesn't lie and these are some things that are missing or not. So at the end of the day, on that sort of collection sheet, we're going to ask for estate planning documents. We're going to ask for these things so we can review and suggest or recommend what needs to be done.
- [08:20]
Thomas Coldman
How often do you see clients have their estate plan done coming into working with you?
- [08:24]
Desarte Yarnway
I would say maybe 33% or a third of clients might have a part of an estate plan.
- [08:31]
Thomas Coldman
Honestly, for me and my clients, I went through this like a month ago. And of like the hundred, I don't know the exact number, 100 plus clients I've worked the last few years, I have under five estate plans from people as they came in and they're still in their 30s, 40s, 50s, with kids. Which is again, probably a huge reason why it's so important for us to help them do this is it is one of the biggest areas that's lacking in people's financial life.
- [08:55]
Desarte Yarnway
Yeah. So I haven't, I guess, run the data, but I think that through professionals that are in equity compensation and receiving windfalls, lots of wealthy business owners. Right. They're thinking about these things. Actually, I was just talking to my wife this morning and I'm like, I think I want to die with zero. This is what I told her. I'm like, I want to give all of the money that we make away, assign it to our kids and charities. Right. Of course you'll make sure that your family is okay. But at the end of the day, I don't want to be a multimillionaire and taking it to the grave. I want it to have a purpose. Right. Did you think when you're dealing I didn't, but I've listened to a bunch of podcasts fitting on the subject.
- [09:36]
Thomas Coldman
I haven't either, but I think it'd be a really interesting topic, maybe down the road for us to talk about how estate planning and Die with zero. Like, what does that look like?
- [09:44]
Desarte Yarnway
Right, Exactly. So, you know, I think for my client demographic, because of the windfalls early, I mean, multimillionaires 20, because they're associated with these startups, they have people in their ears telling them, like, hey, you should probably do these things.
- [09:59]
Thomas Coldman
Yeah.
- [09:59]
Desarte Yarnway
But regardless, I think first, number one for an advisor that may be listening to this podcast, estate planning should be included or a part of your process. I think that's the big takeaway here. Right. Like, estate planning. From the onset of my firm, even when I didn't have kids, or a piece of real estate to my name or a watch on my wrist, I knew that that was an important part of a full financial plan, which I feel like is super important. And every advisor should incorporate it into their process.
- [10:32]
Thomas Coldman
Yeah. And I love how much that you've hit on process, because I think as advisors, we think that it's table stakes to have a set process. But what I'm learning through working with other advisors and doing consulting is it's not like the average firm doesn't have a set process. Like, every client coming in might experience something different. And I think this is a recipe for disaster.
- [10:53]
Desarte Yarnway
Right.
- [10:53]
Thomas Coldman
Like, you're going to be less efficient. Your business is not going to be run as well. But I also think your process, like you said, is your best sales tool. Right. Like, all I want people to know when they come into the first meeting with us is, here's exactly what it looks like and feels like to work with us. Is that what you're looking for? And I think the perfect parallel is to look across, like, the tax and accounting space. Right. Like, I'm sure just start to. You see the same thing. The average business owner or person sits down, says, I want tax planning. I want proactive reaching out to me, and then I want somebody to file my taxes. But then the person they hire, they never ask if they do those things. And then they're like, well, how come I'm not getting this when you didn't hire somebody based on how they're going to work with you? So I think it's spot on that you hit on that. And I'm curious for you. So, like, in this process, does estate planning come early on? Does estate planning come, you know, maybe a year in when you've got some other stuff done, you know, what is. What does that look like?
- [11:48]
Desarte Yarnway
I would say within the first six months. Because what we want to do is ensure that our clients have a great foundation. So even if they left us after that first 45 to 90 days, let's just say retention rate is high. But if they left us, they would move on better than they came to us. And that's my goal. Everybody that I touched, I want them to leave us better than they came. Now, I just want to talk about process, because this isn't an advisor podcast and a bunch of advisors may be listening to it. This is the thing. I look for three things when I add a piece of technology to our tech stack or remove that piece of technology, right? Number one is going to be efficiency. Does it make our firm more efficient? Right. Does it help us do work better and faster than we were previously doing it? Number two is cost effectiveness. Like, what is the bang for buck? What is the value here? If I do decide to add this thing to our tech stack? And then number three is client experience, right? Are my clients pleased? Because we have this piece of technology no matter what it is that we've added to our process? Right? So I think it's important to have a process in general. But for those that are looking to add estate planning in or out, like, these are some things you should be looking with providers or custodians, right? Like, does it make you more efficient? What is. Is it cost effective? Right. Will you get good value from it? And then are your clients pleased? I think that's a sound short list or rubric to work off of.
- [13:17]
Thomas Coldman
And I think point number three is a really hard one as you evaluate tech, right? Because for. There's a lot of tech that makes your life better as a financial planner, but doesn't necessarily make make the life better as the client. And so it's really hard to sit down with the client and say, hey, we added this. It's going to suck for you, but it makes my job better and more efficient. Like, that's not a very compelling case when you take a step back and realize, like, what I'm ultimately doing is helping somebody make their life better and, you know, ultimately put them in a better financial outcome. But I do think it's important. I do also think that's why a lot of these solutions were created. Because when you think about the estate planning process in general, it's not simple, it's not quick, it's not easy, it's not cheap, and it's not necessarily easy to maintain either. And so I think that's why, like, you know, we've all kind of stepped into this area and say, like, how do we improve outcomes? Right? Because if there's the statistic that, like your average client does 40% of your recommended action items, I can guarantee estate planning is at the top of the list. And it's because it's not simple. Right. And so a lot of people will say, oh, well, you know, estate planning softwares, they're not as good. Right. And at the end of the day, if it goes from somebody not getting estate plan to getting estate plan done, that has all of the key things, you know, categorized, everything gets to go the way they want. I think at the end of the day, that leaves us better off than like, hey, great, you know, this is the, the gold standard is you work with, you know, a Perkins Coey or one of the best law firms in the country, but not everybody's going to go pay $11,000 to get a trust set up and they're going to review it every two years. But as long as we can know where our kids are going, where our assets are going, have a financial power of attorney and a healthcare proxy, like, we are actually in a significantly better spot than we were before.
- [14:59]
Desarte Yarnway
Yeah, I think when you look at the numbers, man, the zero to one estate planning there is the 99% of people just need that. Right. It's like, I didn't have a trust, I didn't have a will, I didn't have guardianship set up. Now I do. So when you just think about it from just the total addressable market, from an advisor standpoint and how many people you can help, there is a big opportunity just right there. So I know that we love to geek out over statistics and stats and advisors will bicker and argue on Twitter about these things, but at the end of the day, how many people are you helping by just getting the basics right, nailing the fundamentals. And I think when we're arguing about sort of the gold standard, if you will, using your words, right, we get away from the real goal, which is to serve people.
- [15:51]
Thomas Coldman
Really good point. I'm curious, David, do you have anything to add here? I mean, so to start, I know that you guys haven't really met, but Dave really has an interesting situation where he got to work in an RIA even though he's an estate planning attorney. So he had this mix of being able to see both sides and, you know, neither of us are working at RIAs that really are the, the size that have that. So I mean, maybe for everybody else in here and maybe for our own learning, like how does the estate planning process look in that situation, Dave, where you have both in house?
- [16:22]
David Hahn
Yeah. So I mean, I think these are really good points that have been brought up because the, the numbers are so low. Like we're talking about statistics as far as how many people have estate plans. And then even if you ask people, do you find estate planning to be essential? I think like 90% of people say yes. But then you find only 40% of people have it. So you know what I found? When I was working at Commonwealth in the advanced planning department with 2,500 or somewhere around their advisors, the biggest topic that would come up from their clients was estate planning. That was by far the number one financial planning topic that would be asked about. And when I was practicing law before Commonwealth, when I was an estate planning attorney, it was pretty rare that the advisor was involved. They may have, they may have referred the client over, but then that was kind of it. And I just came to understand that it was so, so critical that the advisor be involved because there's three aspects to estate planning. There's the strategy, part of the process up front, then there's implementation. That means getting it done and then there's the funding. The advisor is so, so critical at the first stage as far as the strategy and helping the client actually motivate them to get a plan done and knowing everything about them. Because, you know, clients meet with an attorney, they have like a one hour consultation, then they might have an maybe, maybe one other meeting before they get the plan done. There's no way the attorney is going to know enough about that client as far as their family dynamic, their behaviors. So having the advisor involved, they can both get them across the finish line to actually motivate them to get the plan done. But also they can be really critical in making sure they have the right plan in place implementation. Obviously that's something that the advisor is not going to get too involved in with drafting documents, but they can get them to the point that they should get their plan done and then afterwards, you know, helping them through the funding process. I find the advisor to be just absolutely essential to the estate planning process way more. And you know, some attorneys don't allow the advisor to be as integral into the process as necessary, but I think it would benefit everyone to the extent that the advisor can get more involved, help bringing that 40% figure up, you know, so that everyone has a plan in place.
- [18:48]
Thomas Coldman
Totally. And I think it is our job to review them. I actually reviewed one for a client and realized that all of the names was a different client of the estate planning attorney. Like, they definitely have a template and they plug names into it and it was like, those are not their kids names. Like, those are not their names. Like, and I think we assume that there aren't ever mistakes because there's other professionals. But at the end of the day there are. And I think there's still like this margin of time where we can come in and say, hey, there's a few things that are missing from this that you didn't really talk about or got messed up. Can we get those updated? So I think those are really good points. And I think also going back to disarte those, like, three points you made earlier are really critical. And I think, you know, one way that using a place like wealth can really help is one of the hardest parts is actually finding vetted attorneys, right. I think it becomes easier when you're like, I work with business owners in Sacramento, right? Like, if that's your business, it becomes way easier to say, I just need to find a couple vetted attorneys near me. All my clients fit this. But the shift of now, you know, where the digital advisor, like, I have clients, I think I'm registered in six or seven states now where I've over five clients and I have clients in every other place around the country. I can either go to, you know, XY Facebook group or something and say, anybody have a good estate planning attorney? But I may be listening to somebody I don't that doesn't know how to vet estate planning attorneys. Or you can use, you know, a place like wealth and say, hey, they have vetted attorneys in every single state. So for me, I can have a better outcome with spending less time to find the right person. And I think that does make a really big difference.
- [20:23]
Desarte Yarnway
I think it's important for advisors to know that they don't have to, nor should they act as an attorney, right? Like your job is to inspire your clients to action, right. And if you are doing that, there are resources and attorneys that are able to help you with one of your clients most pressing needs, right? So I think that's the biggest thing, right? So you don't have to know everything, right. Some of the best advisors that are doing billions in AUM and are growing at crazy rates, as we highlight on the Advisor Journey podcast, they're not just these walking encyclopedias. They have help. They know where to go for the information, and they're able to inspire their clients to action, which is one of the biggest and most important things that any advisor can do for their clients. Because on the back end of that, you have a. You have people that have estate plans. Their tax situation is clean, right. Their investment portfolios are set up and operating in the best way possible, and the retirement is secure. So I think that's one of the things, right. You have to get out of your own way as it pertains to estate planning, because I think a lot of advisors are trying to look for the. The best tool that does everything. It doesn't exist yet. Right. But if you are conspiring your clients to action using the tools that are available, you'll be fine.
- [21:45]
Thomas Coldman
Totally agree. And I think that's honestly a perfect way to wrap up the episode. So, everybody, we really appreciate you listening. As you can tell, we could all listen to Desarte's voice all day, every day. So if you like listening to him, the Advisor Journey podcast that he hosts is incredible. I was actually on it in California with them last year. But before we wrap up, sorry, Danny. Last closing thoughts.
- [22:07]
Desarte Yarnway
Estate plan is a. Is the backbone of a financial plan. I mean, we do all this accumulation to be able to help people, right? Help our family. So I think it's something that if you haven't embedded into your process as an advisor, you should start doing that. Remember that there are tools out there that can make this more efficient, cost effective, and give your clients a delightful experience. Thomas, I appreciate you having me on the show, and very nice to meet you as well, Dave. And hopefully you guys go and tune out the Advisor Journey.
- [22:36]
Thomas Coldman
Yeah, well, we appreciate the time. And everybody, you know, we never really talk about this, but, you know, if you're listening and you haven't checked out wealth yet, I mean, awesome software. There's a reason why Desarte and I are both a part of the company and helping build it out, because it's something that we believe in. So thanks again for the time. Thanks for listening. Please rate and subscribe, and we will see you back for another episode in a couple weeks.