C (2:32)

Yeah. So I think backing up a little bit. I know your podcast has some earlier. I love, like, the fundamental episodes, like these are the types of documents that you might draft in your estate plan. And a lot of people assume that estate planning is who gets what when I die, where in reality, it's not just who gets what, but who does what, and not just when I die, but even while I'm alive. So starting off with the durable or financial power of attorney, this is a document that only exists and really has any power during life. Even before we dive into some of the documents and processes. Back In January of 2021, my grandmother was diagnosed with cancer. And they knew that she probably didn't have that many months left. I know that cancer is not something that you wish on anyone, but there was kind of this silver lining of at least we kind of had an idea, hey, it's time to plan. A lot of people put into these roles of agent for power of attorney or as independent executor, it's kind of like sprung upon them as like a. Oh, by the way, now you're having to do this. And probably the time when you're most emotionally, mentally, behaviorally, like, not in a good place to be doing anything moving, you know, anything transactional. So by her being diagnosed with that illness and maybe having just a few months to live, I had already completed the CFP education program. So I already had a good amount of experience and fundamental knowledge of how this worked. And I cannot imagine how difficult this would be with somebody who, like, what's probate? Right? They're like, surprise. You had this new role. So we had an amazing opportunity, kind of the silver lining for me to step in, actually, even before we, you know, before I was agent for power of return, even before executor, I was able to talk discuss with my grandmother and the idea that she had estate documents drafted, like her last will. We'll talk about that. But she had listed her very common thing. She listed her. Her oldest, you know, her oldest child, her oldest adult child as the primary, you know, agent for power of attorney, you know, financial and medical, and also for executor. And, you know, she. She probably didn't think through. I mean, she's like, I want to, you know, oldest, oldest child. That's probably the most fair. But she didn't really Think about location. She didn't think about, you know, you know, their knowledge versus other knowledge. By the way, my aunt who was listed initially, like she could have figured this out. But you know, me being a grandson definitely wasn't first online in terms of age, but I actually had the most education in this area. So she ended up together. Again, not manipulative, but in her best interest, we went to an estate attorney. We drafted a new power of attorney, new last will, right, to make sure that during life, whether incapacitated or not, we'll talk about springing versus immediate power of attorney, maybe a little bit too. But we effectively wanted to put it in place where even before she passed away, I could help facilitate and help with her estate plan even while she was still alive. So the financial power of attorney effectively gave me the appointed me as agent to act for her for various powers during life, such as the authority to make banking and investing transactions. And again, this is different from the medical power of returning attorney, making medical decisions, by the way, that still remained as one of her daughters who lived nearby making those medical decisions. But I was able to help. You know, the things that I did as power of attorney or as agent was I changed beneficiary designations on retirement accounts. Again, keep in mind, I was doing it in her best interest. I wasn't just saying, oh, I want to make sure I get all the money when she passes away. That was actually using intentional tax. I was actually using an intentional tax planning to tactics to say, okay, who might inherit certain things and what financial weight class are they in? Are they in their highest earning years or did they just graduate college with low income? So, you know, legally, as agent, I was able to change some beneficiary designations, change account titling, so that when she did pass away, her estate planning would be simplified and really benefiting her beneficiaries as much as possible. Also, there was the one big thing I did that people don't think about is she had an auto lease. And people don't understand usually that an auto lease doesn't die with the owner of the car or the leaser of the car, whatever that word is. Before she passed away, I intentionally. It was January of that year. I wanted to at least fill up the standard deduction, which effectively is free gross income. So I filled up the standard deduction, 10% and 12% marginal brackets by taking an IRA distribution and using that money, I was able to pay off her auto lease. Because what I did want to happen is then she'd pass away and then I'd be stuck with this auto lease and not be able to actually do anything about it until receiving the death certificate and potentially having to go through some administrative things. So I'll just back up a little bit and say that the power of attorney effectively just gave me the ability to help her with her money while she was still alive. And the last thing there is, we made this, what is called an immediate power of attorney, which meant we did not have to wait till she was incapacitated and unable to make her own decisions, have a doctor sign off and all that. We made up these documents so that I could immediately act for her as if I were her going to the bank and going to these other institutions.

D (7:52)

I think it's very clear that you had some good documents. Having worked for a broker dealer before, I can tell you that having a power of attorney and accepted by the custodian is not always easy and for a couple of reasons. Number one, the immediate power of attorney is very important. Springing. Powers of attorney are concerning springing, meaning it doesn't come into effect unless you prove incapacity. A lot of times when someone becomes incapacitated, you want to be able to act as soon as possible. And that's not always easy if you have to prove incapacity. However, the custodian defines what they need, depending on, you know, needing doctor's letters or whatever the case is. But the other thing you said that was really interesting was you were able to change beneficiary designations on retirement accounts. That's something that custodians are very, very sensitive to. And it's something where in the document you could have a power of attorney that says, I give my agent the authority to do whatever they want, whenever they want, no matter what. Every power in the entire world. If it doesn't say specifically they have the power to change beneficiary designations on a retirement account, then they can't do it in a lot of places. So it sounds to me like you had a well drafted power of attorney in place.

C (9:20)

And I would also add to that, keep in mind that I one way that I was probably able to change beneficiaries on a traditional ira, a major custodian, is that the changing of beneficiaries wasn't changing it to me. It wasn't affecting me, my, you know, my or my, you know, my immediate family's, you know, effect on that. So that was actually changing beneficiaries actually to other people, not saying I'm going to change it from my, you know, instead of my sister getting the money, I'm going to have me get more of it. Yeah, I was actually. I think that's probably one reason they were more open. I would also say that going to a bank when you, when. If you're going to a bank to talk to discuss estate planning titling, you know, don't go up to the front desk, right? Don't go up where people are just depositing, withdrawing money. There's also, there's typically like a lack of education in that area at the desk. So typically if you're going to have to make a change to an account titling beneficiary, that's going to be more like a back office meeting that you're going to have to set up rather than just like get in line with the rest of the people taking money out of their accounts.

A (10:21)

Piggybacking off of something that David said about a well drafted document. Just for the audience. I wanted to make sure that you understand sort of how a power of attorney is usually set up in most states. So initially you have the grant of authority, which is you got to pick an agent and what powers to give to that agent. And usually under like the statutory form, because every state has a different form that they like, there are going to be what are called general powers. So this is where Cody was listing, you know, like financial accounts and certain things like that. There is actually usually a statutory power over retirement accounts and that usually allows you to deal with the custodian so that you can withdraw, you know, the minimum required payment for the year, et cetera. But changing beneficiaries all of a sudden crosses into estate planning and is often used, to be honest, not what Cody did, but in abusive ways by the agents, benefit themselves oftentimes. And so for that reason, those powers that cross into estate planning become special instructions or special powers. And in fact, your power of attorney needs to initial every single one of these powers individually so that the custodian even like wants to take that power of attorney in hand and comply with your instructions. So the difference here is general powers. Sometimes you just initial like all of them at once. There's an all preceding subjects line. It's very standard. But as soon as you cross into estate planning powers, you start having to initial every single instruction individually and making sure the letter is specific. Right. So change of beneficiaries is specifically in there. I will give you my experience also with immediate powers versus springing powers, because that has come up a little bit. So my one time where I actually acted as an Agent on a financial power of attorney was for my own husband. And my husband is in his 30s. He has no capacity issues that I know of, or maybe depends on when we're having arguments at home. But at the time, I did not believe that he had any capacity issues. But what was happening was he was away at trial. He's an attorney as well. He was under lockdown, basically at this trial site, because there was a very famous guest who was staying at the same hospital where we were not sure we could even get a notary to him in order to sign the purchase of our home. We were closing on our new home. And so at the time, you know, he's frantically packing, he's going to trial. And I thought, we don't need to delay this closing at all because I have a financial power of attorney over you that's immediately effective. It is good for the state of California. We first sent it out to the title company as well as the bank to make sure that they would accept it in advance. Right. So make sure your homework is done there. And they were fine with it. So I ended up signing our closing documents by myself at a table while he was doing whatever he's doing in a war room. And let me tell you, the most annoying part of this whole process was I had to have a sticky note in front of me that said exactly how I should not only sign my name on his behalf, but also initial. And it is not just three letters. It was like some ridiculous thing that like, wouldn't even fit in the. The initial line. But that was. That was the. The experience. And so you just never know when somebody is quote, unquote unavailable. It's not just about capacity. They're just unavailable during life. And your clients may, for whatever reason, need to give somebody this power over their financial affairs. And making it immediately effective can take care of some of those issues.

D (14:14)

Yeah, And I talk about that pretty often that I. So I've written articles on this called the kitchen sink power of attorney. I didn't necessarily bring that up, but just like throw every power into that power of attorney, Throw the kitchen sink in there. Because if someone doesn't see the power, they might not allow you to do it. Obviously, there are risks there. Right. Because whoever you're naming is power of attorney is going to have the ability to do those things. But what I often say is, if you don't want to name someone as power of attorney, like you want to name them as a springing power of attorney only upon incapacity, why is that, like, that's a little concerning as to why you don't want to name that person.

C (14:59)

I only trust them if I'm incapacitating.

D (15:00)

Exactly, exactly. Yeah. So. So it gives me a little pause.

C (15:05)

That's right. I'll quickly add that, Ann, as you mentioned, I'm actually looking at the document right now, which we might be able to put in the show notes as well. I'm willing to share. Again, all this is public record as well, but I'll just share that. Yeah, there are the general powers, and there's one line check that said all the powers listed, but right below that, there was a specific area called grant of specific authority. And each of those, including creating or changing rights of survivorship and creating or changing a beneficiary designation, were individually initialed because it was that important that those were individually titled. And also, as you mentioned, Ann, my wife and I, we bought our house in our mid-20s. She simply was at work and she couldn't get off work to go sign to the title company. So we used our immediate power of attorney. I acted as agent, and like you said, it was, you're already signing, like, lots of documents, but you're having to sign everything perfectly and like, you know, signing for, you know, pretending that you're her for a moment and then going back to saying why you're pretending to be her with all these specifics. So, yeah, it's a bit of a process, but it was really nice. Again, you would only have somebody as probably as agent listed there, if you fully trust them to make decisions in your best interest. But it was really nice to have that. I would say anybody who's married, probably an immediate power of attorney. Again, not legal advice for you, but it's probably worth considering adding an immediate versus a springing power of attorney.

B (16:28)

Really interesting. I mean, do you guys think there's anything else we need to hit on on financial power of attorney before we go into what it's like to be an executor? I think that was actually a lot of info that I don't really work with the retiree world or, like, people passing away, to be honest. So I haven't had to, like, dive too much into this. So I actually learned a lot on the. All the different types of financial power of attorney there can be and the complexities of it. But, Cody, let's go into, you know, what it was actually like to serve as an executor.

C (16:55)

Sure. So one thing to keep in mind is that the will really has no power until you Go through application to probate the will and issue those letters testamentary. Really, when somebody passes away, to actually utilize the will and what's written within the will, you have to request that the county judge admits that will to probate and that the letters testamentary are issued to the designated executor. Right. So the first thing that kind of caught me by surprise is once somebody passes away, you can't just immediately act. I think people need to think about this in terms of liquidity, even as, you know, retirement planning. Really thinking about the investments too, about how quickly is the dependents, the executor, able to access funds. So I'll just tell you now that it took about two weeks to receive the death certificate. Right. Which is needing proof of death. That was needed before I could do things. Even the assets that pass outside of probate, like through title or beneficiary designation, they need proof that the original owner has actually passed away. So giving that death certificate, I also need to get multiple copies of that. So again, they might give you a list of some types of organizations that might request a certified copy versus just be okay with a scanned digital copy, which during the COVID era, I think a lot more of them were able to, you know, take probably even now able to take those PDF copies. But I didn't receive the death certificate until two weeks out. But the application to probate, the will was looking at my little timeline here was about. Yeah, it was about a week after that. So it wasn't until three weeks after she had passed away. My grandmother, I know it'll be different for every situation, but not until three weeks after my grandmother's death was I able to really apply to request for the admission of the will and then the oath of executor in the actual letters testamentary that gave me permission to start acting with her estate didn't come until two months after that. So this was a long process before I could. So really, three months after death, I could start really performing the duties of the independent executor. Some people call this the personal representative, depending on which language you're using. So I guess before I go too deep there anything to add there, I'm.

A (19:16)

Just going to say that is the reason why a lot of folks prefer to have a trust, because as a trustee, you can actually step in and start acting as soon as that person has lost capacity. And they're usually capacity is defined by the trust or by state law, but that trust actually has legal effect. Like you as a trustee can go to a Bank and right away start acting in your capacity as soon as that person has been. Become incapacitated, not even waiting till death or, you know, in this case, a judge, a county judge, issuing letters, testamentary. So, yes, yeah, it's.

D (19:53)

It's so much easier. And, you know, I'm in Massachusetts, so I'm biased in how horrible probate can be. Because in action, this is true.

C (20:08)

Maybe.

D (20:08)

A little bit less than 10 years ago, there was a scandal at the Massachusetts probate court where people were. Employees were undermining the head of the probate office, and there were allegations that they were actually intentionally destroying records or losing records. And so not to say that that would happen typically, but you are. You're subjecting your estate to, you know, the state and to employees. You know, as far as privacy is concerned, all those. It's much better to be able to keep it tight and be able to keep it within a trust where you're the one in control, not subjecting it to this governmental process.

C (20:57)

And I'll quickly add there that. Think about the timing of this estate planning process. This was in January of 2021. What was happening around that time? Right. So not only were. There's a lot of legend, you know, people couldn't go places, people wearing masks, but also everything was slowed down administratively. And also there are a lot of people who happen to be passing away from COVID simultaneously. Right. So I would say that. Consider that there are some, like, you might think the administration is slow in normal times. Right. So consider there might be again, hopefully not another Covid, but think that, yeah, like, try to control as much of the administration as you can so that in the future you don't have to just rely on however fast or slow the administration is at that point. So I think in our case, my grandmother, she had a house and some bank accounts by the time she passed away, so we couldn't. You might want to speak to the small estate affidavit. At least where we were. This had to go through. We did go through the probate process due to the level. Due to the value of her primary residence.

A (22:02)

And, Cody, I have a question for you, actually. Was there anything in the drafting of the will? Because it sounds like you had a really good power of attorney in your hands. But was there anything that stood out to you where you said, oh, thank God, you know, I had XYZ in the will because it put more power into my hands or made it more flexible or whatever else? I'm just wondering.

C (22:22)

Yeah, I think not necessarily that I Can that comes to mind because ours was actually pretty simple in terms of even, like, family relationships were very stable. So there wasn't, you know, there wasn't need to create trust in the future. No minor children involved. But I will say one thing that I've found that people don't realize that's a little bit stickier is when I actually pull this up in my notes here, I've got one thing that I noticed in some of these documents is it's survivorship provision. Some people, they just kind of do. And by the way, in mine, it says, no person shall be deemed to have survived me if such person die within 90 days after my death. However, this is important part that was written within here. However, my executor may make distributions for my estate within that period for the support. Support of my daughters. And I find that some people, they have a very long survivorship provision that in effect, kind of actually puts everything on hold and says, okay, we need to wait 90 days to make sure nobody else passes away before we start moving forward with distributing assets. And again, it might take more than 90 days for you even to get the will accepted. But that specific language actually helped us that I didn't have to wait a long time before starting to take action, distribute assets. Let's start cleaning up the estate.

D (23:39)

I'm sure you've run into this, that that was like a common thing when I was practicing was people wanted their money, the beneficiaries did, and you'd come up with, you know, creative ways, you know, signing, you know, indemnities or whatever the case is, to get them their money earlier than maybe the process until the end of the process shakes out. But yes, obviously another reason why trust is better in a lot of circumstances. But yes, having language in there that gives a spout to be able to get assets out earlier is certainly better for sure.

A (24:17)

And that survivorship provision has actually now made a little bit of a splash in the news because of Gene Hackman's estate. And so there are often questions like, why do you even need the survivorship provision and the underpinning, and maybe Dave or Cody, you have a different thought as to this. But my understanding and the way I explained it to clients is that if the deaths are too close in time, that is what happens with his estate. The beneficiaries feel like there really wasn't a transfer, real transfer of the assets to the survivor who's immediately named, and instead chips fall where they may. And it's actually the remainder beneficiaries or the contingent beneficiaries who should take at that point. And that feels fairer. Right. So if your spouse didn't really survive you for more than X amount of time, and that X is usually spelled out, and in your case it was 90 days, then really should that person take. And so that's what's happening here as well, is that you need a little bit of time to kind of like for things to shake out in case they're really close in time. Deaths.

C (25:28)

Yeah. I was taught that survivorship provision. Imagine husband and wife get in a car accident together. One dies immediately and one survives for a little bit while. What you'll notice is that both spouses might not have mirrored wills. One might have a different designated executor than the other. And like you said, sometimes you don't want to have to go a two step process to actually get the right people in place. So that survivorship provision can kind of simplify the process. Again, it adds complexity because you might have to wait, but also simplifies not having to go through like if I received like my grandfather passed before my grandmother and let's. I also, I actually noticed that my grandfather has some unclaimed property. And I was like, oh, that would be, that would potentially be very difficult. Right. Because you kind of have to go through like kind of two steps of that process to make sure that you can, you know, actually claim that property. That's kind of like two estates separated.

D (26:23)

Yeah. And that's interesting on a couple levels. Number one, if you don't have that language in the will, it's going to default to state law. And states are all over the place on how they deal with simultaneous death. A lot of them have a certain number of hours and you may know, I think it's like 120 hours or something. A lot of states have. Massachusetts, I believe is like literally who died first? So they go by like literally who died first. Most states have like a number of hours. So if you want to set different rules, you can by putting them in the.

C (27:00)

I want to die first if we die together.

D (27:02)

Yeah, right, right. So you can put in the documents rather than let the state decide those rules. The other thing that, that is absolutely true. You know, my uncle died a few years ago and without children, without a spouse. And my father was a beneficiary of his estate. My father had died shortly before and we had gotten the notices of, of his death and about the probate. And my father, because hopefully, because I was a good estate planner, had had no probate necessary. So to get, you know, what minimal assets were from my uncle to my father, then to my mom was just way too much to go through because you'd have to do multiple probates. Because I would have had to open up probate for my uncle, then an open appropriate for my father, and then get it to my mother. And it was just. It's. It's just too much. So it's a good point that people don't realize those multiple layers you might have to go through if you don't have a plan set in place.

C (28:07)

And I would say some people might be asking, Cody, why didn't you set up a trust? Right. Trust apparently would have, like, bypassed all this administrative stuff. Keep in mind that my grandmother had that chronic illness, and, you know, she could have passed eight moments notice. And. And even if we had set up a trust, we would have also had to make sure that the assets had been retitled in the name of the trust. So just with kind of. Maybe kind of a hassle factor, an unknown timing, the uncertainty of the timing of her death made it so. Yeah. If we had known or if she wouldn't have been chronically ill and this would have been put in place a year before, we might have actually had some time to, like, really set up these things appropriately. And, yes, the trust would have made it a lot easier to sell the house and things like that along the way. Okay.

B (28:46)

It's a good reinforcing point.

A (28:48)

Yeah. To be clear to the audience, wills are perfectly fine in many, many jurisdictions. Okay.

C (28:54)

And two thirds die without a will. Right. So it's kind of scary.

D (28:57)

Yeah. Will is better. Will is better than not having a will. If you don't have a will, then you're essentially, you're saying, I want my state politicians to be my will. Right. They set my will. So will is certainly better than a trust. But in most states. I wouldn't say all states. In a lot of states, trust is a lot better.

B (29:18)

Cody, what was the worst part of being an executor?

C (29:23)

So, I mean, as a nerd, as a finance nerd, I loved again, I feel like when you teach, you learn twice. So as I was teaching the different beneficiaries how this worked, I was learning a lot. Fundamental knowledge was tweaked along the way. One of the things that people might not understand, too, is that there's this idea of a notice to creditors. Right. So before you can pay all the beneficiaries, we had to put out a notice in the newspaper saying that anyone who has claims against the estate are required to present them within a certain window of time. So I would say that, as David mentioned, nobody in the family was like, hey, I know I'm listening to the beneficiary. I want my money asap. But with that said, just setting expectations that this could be a long process. The entire process for us was eight months from start to finish. By finish, I mean, there was a drop order. The court dropped the estate from their docket in October that year. So, effectively, that formally ended the probate process. But I would say that the hardest thing was just setting expectations with everybody. I had a perfectly friendly family about this, but if you have contentious relationships or just simply that. That some people just don't have a hard time understanding what's going on, I think that communication could potentially be the hardest part of this process. Again, even with a, you know, even if everybody's happy, you might have that. I think. I think the executor not only needs to take on the role of, like, distributing assets and things, but they really need to set a good expectation for communication. And I will say, even as somebody who has a lot of understanding about this before it happened, I would never recommend somebody try to probate a will by themselves without the help of an estate attorney. So I'll recommend to everybody here, again, not specific legal advice, but utilizing the advice and expertise of an estate attorney and also an attorney who specializes in estate planning. Not just like, oh, yeah, I do that. I'll do this. I do car accidents. And by the way, I draft wills. Make sure that you're working with somebody who can not only draft the documents accurately, but also help you communicate that moving through the probate process itself.

D (31:25)

And I. I can attest that the fee that we would charge would be higher for someone who tried to do their probate on their own and mess it up versus someone who just came in fresh with a new probate all the time, because you have to clean it up. And it's. It's just. It's just more work.

C (31:42)

That's right. Another reason potentially, to have the state, the same estate attorney, draft the documents that's going to facilitate the probate process for you because they won't have to go, oh, you messed this up, and now we're gonna have to try to correct. So, yeah, using the same person, again, not that you can necessarily control that, but, you know, hopefully, you know, if you're doing something short timeframe like that, maybe you can utilize the same professional on both ends of death.

B (32:05)

Good point. Okay, last question before you wrap up. So you went through this process, obviously, I think like anything that as an advisor we get to do in the financial world helps us better help our clients. So like, what was maybe one or two takeaways from this that, you know, you would want to teach advisors and how they can better help their clients with this role or just estate playing in general?

C (32:26)

Yeah, I would say during that process, since there's like, you know, there's an emotional element to it. Like, you know, it's hard, it's, you know, difficult emotionally, behaviorally, thankfully I like this stuff. But I would say that the number one thing that somebody's going to want in those circumstances as, as agent for power of attorney or as executor in the will is two things, clarity and simplicity. And I would say not even preparing somebody to be an executor, but more so, hey, somebody might be an agent or executor for your estate. How can we simplify some of your estate so that. I think just one example of this quickly is that sometimes in our industry we have this thing called what we call a complexity for the sake, complexity for the sake of job security, where we try to make things complex to say, look how much value I'm providing by making this complex. But sometimes simplicity and clarity is actually what people want the most. So thinking about investments, you might have one spouse who loves complex investments, direct indexing and all the bells and whistles and all the fun products and things, but their surviving spouse or dependents who might inherit those assets. That might be very overwhelming for them. Especially I call them the non spreadsheet spouse. Right. I used to say non financial spouse. But again, both spouses care. Partners care. They both care about the finances. But there's usually one who's more, you know, more interested in the spreadsheets. So I would say that just, I would, I would help provide clarity around. Hey, let's, let's talk with the whole family. Talk to this would be surviving spouse and partner. On what type of simplicity and clarity would you like so that we can simplify the estate planning in the future?

B (34:08)

The only good part is if they're not, they're obviously under the taxable threshold. Pretty easy to unwind the direct indexing and a lot of that stuff.

C (34:15)

That's true. Yeah. Step up in basis depending on which community and your property states and all those things.

A (34:20)

By using one of those financial powers of attorney, by the way, you can actually do the consolidation simplification before death and the basis planning while you're at it.

B (34:33)

Well, all right. This, this episode's been awesome. I think this is one that we've, like, needed to do. So really appreciate you coming on, Cody. Before we wrap up, let everybody know best places to kind of follow you. And I'm sure you know, but this is mostly an advisor podcast, so sure. Good people for your community and just for everybody listening, it is something I push a lot of people to. I had one of my advisors buy it when he started and like, anytime I have an advisor saying, like, where can I go learn about financial planning, cfp? Obviously all those things are good, but like, real life experience, real life financial plans from a, from a financial advisor is by far the best learning you can get.

C (35:08)

I appreciate that. Yeah. If you're an aspiring or practicing financial advisor, financial planner, my LinkedIn is a great place to start and learn more. Also, measure twiceplanners.com is where I'm the founder of an educational community. We actually have over 80 hours of educational video content available on demand, 750 experience hours for the standard pathway CFP board accepted hours. If you want to learn or whether you're new or whether you're a veteran, we have people who have 30 years of experience who are saying, I want to continue learning. These are the types of conversations we have regularly with live members. So yeah, just check us out on maybe LinkedIn's the best place to start. Love it.

B (35:46)

Love it. All right, everybody, 2 asks. Give us five stars. Subscribe and come tune back in in a couple weeks for our next episode. All right. Till next time.

D (36:11)

Sam.