347 – Livin’ On a Prayer

Summary

The Prancing Pony Podcast - Episode 347: Livin’ On a Prayer

Release Date: November 3, 2024

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Introduction

In the twelfth minute of Episode 347, hosts Alan Sisto and Don Marshall kick off with their trademark humor, teasing a temporary division of the podcast into three separate entities due to "dissensions among the co-hosts." This light-hearted banter sets the tone for an engaging and informative episode dedicated to the intricate history of Arnor and its heirs within Tolkien’s Middle-earth.

Guest Segment: Sean Verender

[02:40]
Alan Sisto welcomes Sean Verender to the North Wing, a special segment exclusive to Patreon patrons. Sean, a mechanical engineer from Exton, Pennsylvania, shares his journey into the world of Tolkien, ignited by friendships and family influence. He credits the Prancing Pony Podcast for deepening his appreciation and understanding of Tolkien's lore during the early days of the pandemic.

Notable Quote:
Sean Verender: “I think the fact that it's kind of a self-renewing resource is really what keeps me coming back.” [05:03]

Sean highlights his passion for Arthedain, one of Arnor’s successor kingdoms, and discusses his enthusiasm for attending moots and collecting the History of Middle-earth series, despite the challenging paperback editions.

Main Discussion: Arnor and the Heirs of Isildur

Geography of Arnor

[00:50]
The hosts delve into Appendix A1 of The Lord of the Rings, focusing on the northern kingdom of Arnor. They outline the geographic boundaries of Eriador, distinguishing it from the political boundaries of Arnor. Key landmarks include the Gray Flood, Great Road, and notable regions like Rudaur and Cardolan.

Notable Quote:
Don Marshall: “If you look at a map of Middle Earth, either in your book or the LordOfTheWingsProject.com right now, the map.” [16:33]

The Split of Arnor

[21:31]
Alan and Don explore the enigmatic split of Arnor into three realms—Arthedain, Rhudaur, and Cardolan—following King Earendur's decision, which remains shrouded in mystery. Drawing parallels with historical events like the succession conflicts of William the Conqueror and Louis the Pious, they speculate on the possible internal strife that led to the division.

Notable Quote:
Alan Sisto: “What was the dissension? What was it that caused them? Who knows?” [21:08]

Rise of Angmar and the Witch King

[35:05]
The discussion pivots to the emergence of Angmar, a realm founded by the Witch King, who leads forces intent on destroying the fragmented Dunedain of Arnor. The hosts emphasize Tolkien's recurring theme of unity versus division, illustrating how Arnor's fragmentation made it vulnerable to external threats.

Notable Quote:
Don Marshall: “This is a huge theme of Tolkien. This is just like we're stronger together.” [35:30]

Fall of Arthedain

[45:07]
Arthedain, the largest and most resilient of the three kingdoms, faces relentless attacks from Angmar. The tale recounts pivotal battles, the valor of leaders like Arveleg and Arafor, and the eventual downfall of Fornost, the capital of Arthedain. The preservation and subsequent loss of significant artifacts like the Palantir are also discussed.

Notable Quote:
Alan Sisto: “Now, Aragorn I lived to be 210 years old... the dignity of the kings of old was renewed in him.” [70:07]

Artifacts of Arnor

[68:00]
The conversation shifts to the history of legendary artifacts such as the Ring of Barahir, the Elendilmir (White Star), and the Scepter of Annuminas. The hosts trace their lineage, significance, and eventual roles in the broader narrative of Middle-earth, highlighting their deep-rooted connections to the line of kings and the enduring legacy of the Dunedain.

Notable Quote:
Don Marshall: “Aragorn indeed lived to be 210 years old, longer than any of his line since King Arveleg.” [70:07]

Q&A: Listener Question

Impact of Arnor’s Unity on Middle-earth’s Fate

[89:07]
Listener Haley H. from Texas poses a thought-provoking question: “If Arnor had stayed a united kingdom, could they potentially pose a threat to Sauron and Angmar? And what do you believe made them split apart?” Alan and Don engage in an insightful discussion, contemplating the strengths Arnor might have wielded had it remained unified and speculating on the internal conflicts that led to its division.

Notable Quote:
Alan Sisto: “I think we can still get the Shire. But what are the other consequences?” [94:31]

The hosts agree that unity could have bolstered Arnor's defenses against malevolent forces, potentially altering key historical events. They reflect on Tolkien’s themes of friendship, unity, and the tragic consequences of internal discord.

Conclusion

As the episode winds down, Alan and Don recap the tumultuous history of Arnor, emphasizing the resilience and legacy of the Dunedain despite their near extinction. They tease future episodes that will explore the realms of Gondor and further unravel Middle-earth’s rich tapestry.

Notable Quote:
Alan Sisto: “To the 17th, 27th power or something. Yeah.” [78:44]
Don Marshall: “It's never going to happen. It's never going to happen. That's the whole book.” [74:10]

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Final Thoughts

Episode 347 of The Prancing Pony Podcast offers a deep dive into the lore of Arnor, blending thorough textual analysis with engaging discussions and humor. Whether you’re a seasoned Tolkien enthusiast or new to Middle-earth’s legends, this episode provides valuable insights into the rise and fall of one of its most pivotal kingdoms.

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Note: This summary excludes advertisements, intros, outros, and non-content segments to focus purely on the episode's substantive discussions and insights.

Transcript

[Alan Sisto]

Good evening, little masters, and welcome to episode 347 of the Prancing Pony podcast, where, owing to dissensions among the co hosts, the podcast is being divided into three.

[Don Marshall]

And I suppose you think you're gonna get to keep all three of those palantir you have in your basement?

[Alan Sisto]

Yeah, they are mine.

[Don Marshall]

All right.

[Alan Sisto]

Yeah, sue me.

[Don Marshall]

I'm watching you, Sisto. I'm watching you.

[Alan Sisto]

All right.

[Don Marshall]

Not with a palantir, though.

[Alan Sisto]

No, apparently not. Good luck with that.

[Don Marshall]

Pull up a bench in the common room and join us. I am Don Marshall, the obscure Lord of the Rings Facts guy. And I am here with the man of the west who is hoarding all of the Seeing Stones, Alan Sisto.

[Alan Sisto]

Might as well. I mean, you can have Rud hour. How's that sound? Good?

[Don Marshall]

Yeah. Okay, fine, fine.

[Alan Sisto]

All right, folks, join us as we watch Arnor disappear during our look at appendix A1, little three covering the north Kingdom of Arnor and the heirs of Isildur.

[Don Marshall]

The titles don't get any better, but the content sure does. We are fighting the long defeat here, it seems, folks, no matter how you got here, you are all welcome here in the common room at the Prancing Pony Podcast. We are reading and talking our way through Middle Earth, with plenty of speculation and bad jokes along the way, of.

[Alan Sisto]

Course, but we love our deep dives into the lore, discussing our favorite themes and a whole lot more.

[Don Marshall]

But we do try to keep it light and fun. The opposite of a palantir, like a couple of friends chatting at a pub. And we are very glad you've joined.

[Alan Sisto]

Us, and I'm sure you'll be glad you joined as well, just as soon as we're done with Don's bad jokes. But before we get to tonight's chapter discussion, oh, it is time to welcome a guest to the Common room in one of my favorite segments, the North Wing. And today, I'm pleased to bring you a new installment of the North Wing. Now, we know that Barlon Butterbur had a room or two in the North Wing at the Prancing Pony Inn that he made sports special for Hobbits. Well, this is the PPP's place made special for some of our listeners to give us all a chance to get to know them. Now, rooms at the North Wing are a little hard to come by these days, so only our patrons at the Bombadil's bequest and Kiradan's contribution tiers are eligible. So if you'd like to be one of the next patrons to join us, be sure to check out patreon.com prancingponypod There is still a bit of a waiting list for the North Wing right now, but I will get to them all soon and maybe some of them will even be with one of my co hosts. For now though, I'm running it solo. But please welcome tonight's guest to the North, Win, Sean Verender. Hi, Alan. Hi, Sean. Thanks for joining me. And I'll tell you what, the other folks don't know this yet, but I'm going to fill them in. You and I have had to schedule this probably a half a dozen times and then I turned up like half an hour late today. So thank you for your question.

[Sean Verender]

No worries at all.

[Alan Sisto]

Really appreciate it. So tell us a little bit about yourself. Where are you from? What do you do? And well, of course, do your loved ones merely tolerate your Tolkien nerdiness or do they share it with you to some degree, that sort of thing.

[Sean Verender]

So I live just outside of Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, in a town called Exton.

[Alan Sisto]

Okay.

[Sean Verender]

And I work as a mechanical engineer for the US Navy civilian, working primarily on additive manufacturing. So 3D printing and installation of additive manufacturing equipment on Navy ships.

[Alan Sisto]

Okay, so we're not going to be 3D printing any large caliber artillery guns on the next battleships or anything. Those aren't going to be printed out of resin or anything.

[Sean Verender]

Can't say.

[Alan Sisto]

Can't say. Best answer, actually. Best answer. I see the Penn State because of course I'm getting to do this on video. I see the Penn State logo on your shirt. I'm imagining that's then where you went to study mechanical engineering.

[Sean Verender]

Yep, indeed. Undergrad and grad school.

[Alan Sisto]

All right. On Nittany Lyons. All right. Now, of course we have to ask you the question that we ask everybody who comes here to the Prancing Ponies common room. When and how did you first discover Tolkien's works? And what was your experience like? And I think the most important part of the question that I tend to let people slide on. I'm not gonna let you slide on this one. Why is it that you keep coming back? What brings you back and back and back again to Middle Earth?

[Sean Verender]

So I was introduced to it through a friend in junior high, I guess back around the time when Fellowship was coming out. So I think a lot, like a lot of people my age kind of the movies introduced me to the, to the world. I kind of didn't really feel interested initially. But then I had my uncle when Two Towers was coming out. He's like, you have to go see this with me.

[Alan Sisto]

Oh, yeah.

[Sean Verender]

So I have a twin brother, so he and I went with my uncle and saw it and I was hooked. So of course I had to watch Fellowship first. So then started reading the books. Started with the Hobbit, then Lord of the Rings and just devoured them. And then in my freshman year of college, I took on the Silmarillion and I loved it. So. And after that I was, I would say that I was kind of a pretty in depth fan, but my fandom really expanded when I came across Pranks Pony podcast back in 2020. So very early days of the Pandemic, you and Sean kept me company.

[Alan Sisto]

We kept, it turns out we kept a lot of people company. I remember when that first happened, I think our fear was that. But people only listen to podcasts on their commute and at the gym, so we're toast. Like all the podcasts in the world are going to die. And it turned out to be the complete opposite. We got to help people sort of get through a very difficult time.

[Sean Verender]

So then getting back to your question about what keeps me coming back is that I think through the, the introduction to the wider fandom that I gathered from listening to Prince of Pony, I've just kind of gained like a deeper understanding and deeper appreciation for it and realized like, there are so many different readings you can have of the stories. So then it really reward somebody for coming back with your new perspective, even after a short amount of time to kind of read the stories again and apply the things that have happened outside of reading the books to your understanding of the themes and everything. So I think the fact that it's kind of a self renewing resource is really what keeps me coming back.

[Alan Sisto]

I like that viewpoint and I certainly share that. I mean, as you know, the last six years have shown me going through the Lord of the Rings, it doesn't matter how many times you read it, there's always something new. And it may be that, yeah, it's something else you read maybe in the letter or maybe an Unfinished Tales, but it also may be an experience you've had. Like you said, you bring your life to the text every time that you read it. And that experience is going to make the next reading experience a little bit different and a little bit richer. So what is your favorite book in the legendarium and why? And then if you have one, what's your favorite non legendarium work?

[Sean Verender]

Oh, man. So favorite book would have to be Lord of the Rings. Close second is Sicilmarillion. I just I like the. The kind of. The mythological scale of that was always kind of in elementary school and everything. Kind of fascinated by like the Greek and Roman myths and everything. But then having something that is kind of so tailored to my Anglo Saxon background is kind of tugs at my heartstrings a little bit.

[Alan Sisto]

I guess I can understand why that makes sense. Have you read any non legendarian works?

[Sean Verender]

I've started to. I would say probably the one that I relate to the most is Leaf by Nigel.

[Alan Sisto]

Oh.

[Sean Verender]

Just because I. A dyed in the wool perfectionist. So that really spoke to me on so many levels.

[Alan Sisto]

Gotta get that Leaf just right.

[Sean Verender]

Exactly.

[Alan Sisto]

And it's one of a thousand. I got to get the other 999just right as well. Yep. No, I can't go to that trip yet. No. Yeah, I hear that. I do. Any Tolkien goals that you'd like to share? Maybe tracking down a book for your collection if that's something you do or going to a moot. Something along those lines.

[Sean Verender]

So I've definitely started collecting not. Not any older editions or anything like that. Yeah.

[Alan Sisto]

Good luck with you if you do because.

[Sean Verender]

Yeah, I've kind of been stocking my shelf with especially the History of Middle Earth copies as they're being reposed here. I have the. The paperback editions. They're awful thick so. And I hate to crack a spine on it, but it's like so difficult with.

[Alan Sisto]

Yeah, they're thick and then you sort of have. Yeah, the paperback ones. I think I know which ones you're talking about. They're. They're tough to do.

[Sean Verender]

Yeah.

[Alan Sisto]

I'm hopeful that these. It does look like the new editions. The new box set editions of History Middle Earth are going to be really nice and readable.

[Sean Verender]

Yep.

[Alan Sisto]

Because I've. Prior to that, the only version I had was the three volume one, which is on the very thin paper. Yeah. And I just. Ooh. You know, it's. It easily tears. It's hard to. And you can't even open it up because it's. Each volume is like 1500 pages.

[Sean Verender]

Exactly. Yeah.

[Alan Sisto]

All right, cool.

[Sean Verender]

And then so I've actually been turned on to attending moots too. So this past June was actually my first myth moot.

[Alan Sisto]

Well, you're in the right part of the country to make it relatively easy.

[Sean Verender]

Yeah, exactly. So incidentally, I actually sat in the road behind you while we were watching the. That Born of Hope fan film.

[Alan Sisto]

That was hilarious.

[Sean Verender]

Yeah, I think I remember that. That was a good time.

[Alan Sisto]

That was a good time. I wonder what hilarious thing they're going to show this time around. I mean, not that Born of Hope was hilarious, but the way we did it. Sort of a mystery science theater 3000 approach.

[Sean Verender]

Yeah.

[Alan Sisto]

The one thing that it sounds like you missed, because it was, I want to say, two or three years ago, was the Soviet Fellowship of the Ring.

[Sean Verender]

I've heard so many things about that.

[Alan Sisto]

Watching that with 50 people late at night is. Is an experience not to be missed. It'll be good, whatever it is. Yeah, I'm looking forward to it as well this year. Now for our Lightning round, or at least presumed or intended to be. Lightning round of quick questions and answers. What's the one place in time in Middle Earth you wish you could live? Not just visit, but live time would.

[Sean Verender]

Be soon after the founding. And Rohan, it just. Rohan has always fascinated me.

[Alan Sisto]

Oh, yeah.

[Sean Verender]

Just kind of like. I know we get a little bit in Unfinished Tales and everything, but there's just so much of that that's unexplored and just. I. I don't know, something about it speaks to me.

[Alan Sisto]

So Aoral would be your lord and you would have been part of that transition from the Aotheod up north in the Vales of Anduin to Calenardhon and Rohan. That's a nice choice. I like that. Who is your favorite elf from the First Age? Completely shifting gears here. And why is it Finrod?

[Sean Verender]

So everybody answers. Finrod. I was trying to think of something different.

[Alan Sisto]

You totally can. I would recommend maybe not Maeglin, but really, anybody's. Fine.

[Sean Verender]

Very true.

[Alan Sisto]

Even Feodor. I won't give you a hard time.

[Sean Verender]

So I would say Fingolfin, because he went one on one with Morgoth.

[Alan Sisto]

Yeah.

[Sean Verender]

Though he didn't Live to Tell the tale. Certainly made a showing of it.

[Alan Sisto]

And Morgoth went halt ever after. Yeah, indeed. Absolutely. Oh, that's definitely right up there with Finrod in my book. This one's really a cheat. I mean, I suppose you could answer it incorrectly, but. Balrog wings. Actual or metaphorical?

[Sean Verender]

Metaphorical.

[Alan Sisto]

Yeah. There we go. So we're just doing a stop earlier on this show. I'm sure our audience isn't biased at all on that one. All right, well, maybe I'll change this question then. One does not simply walk into Mordor. But if you could, who would you rather have at your side, Turgon or Finrod? See, I decided not to include Fingolfin because he was your favorite First Age elf and you would have obviously chosen him. I cannot choose the first stage elf in front of you. Okay, Vizzini Turgon or Finrod?

[Sean Verender]

I would say Turgon, because he did so well holding out against Morgoth.

[Alan Sisto]

Oh, he sure did.

[Sean Verender]

Until the very end. So I would say I think Finrod would be a good companion, but I would say Turgon.

[Alan Sisto]

Yeah, I mean, Finrod will throw himself into the first werewolf that you run into, but then he'll be gone.

[Sean Verender]

Yep.

[Alan Sisto]

Yeah, Turgon. Not a bad call. Favorite author or book other than Tolkien?

[Sean Verender]

I would have to say Terry Pratchett. The Discworld series. Yeah, it's always good for a laugh. And good omens, too. Writing with Neil Gaiman.

[Alan Sisto]

Fantastic choice. Can't disagree with you on that. Well, thank you, Sean. I really have enjoyed having you here in the North Wing after all that wait. Thank you so much.

[Sean Verender]

I greatly appreciate it, Alan. Thank you.

[Alan Sisto]

You got it, Sean. Well, folks, it's time for all of us to head back to the common room and join the rest of the listeners. But, Sean, I hope I will see you back here in the Common room at our next questions after nightfall. Or something along those lines. And for now, folks, we return you to the podcast in progress.

[Don Marshall]

Always a huge fan of the North Wing. Would love to be on it myself, Allan.

[Alan Sisto]

Few times.

[Don Marshall]

Nudge, nudge, wink, wink, hint, hint.

[Alan Sisto]

Well, you'll definitely be on it. Not as a guest, but you're going to be hopefully sitting with me and quizzing some of our Northwing guests in the very near future.

[Don Marshall]

I mean, I could do the trivia as well. I am the obscure Lord of the Rings fact. You are?

[Alan Sisto]

I might have to defer to you on that. That'll be a lot of fun.

[Don Marshall]

Oh, or can I write all of the questions and I'll just make sure?

[Alan Sisto]

Why not? Hey, less work for me. I'm not going to say no.

[Don Marshall]

All right, well, I am going to put you to work now. Would you mind bringing us our first reading for the day?

[Alan Sisto]

I would not mind at all, Don. At its greatest, Arnor included all Eriador, except the regions beyond the Lune and the lands east of Greyflood and Loudwater, in which lay Rivendell and Holland. Beyond the loon was Elvish country, green and quiet, where no men went but Dwarves dwelt and still dwell in the east side of the Blue Mountains, especially in those parts south of the Gulf of Lune, where they have mines that are still in use. For this reason, they were accustomed to pass east along the Great Road, as they had done for long years before we came to the Shire at the Grey Havens dwelt Cirdan the Shipwright, and some say he dwells there still until the last ship set sail into the west. In the days of the kings, most of the High Elves that still lingered in Middle Earth dwelt with Cirdan, or in the seaward lands of Lindon. If any now remain, they are few. The North Kingdom and the Dunedain After Elendil and Isildur, there were eight High Kings of Arnor. After Earendur, owing to dissensions among his sons, their realm was divided into Arthedain, Rhudaur and Cardolan. Arthedain was in the northwest and included the land between Brandywine and Lune, and also the land north of the Great Road as far as the Weather Hills. Rhudaur was in the northeast and lay between the Ettenmoors, the Weather Hills, and the Misty Mountains, but included also the Angle between the Hoarwell and the Loudwater. Cardolan was in the south, its bounds being the Brandywine, the Grey Flood, and the Great Road. In Arthedain, the line of Isildur was maintained and endured, but the line soon perished. In Cardalan and Rhudaur, there was often strife between the kingdoms which hastened the waning of the Dunedain. The chief matter of debate was the possession of the Weather Hills and the land westward towards Bree. Both Rhudaur and Cardolan desired to possess Aman Sul Weathertop, which stood on the borders of their realms, for the tower of Amon Sul held the chief Palantir of the north, and the other two were both in the keeping of Arthedain. Here we go.

[Don Marshall]

Well, it's not a list of a bunch of kings. We are.

[Alan Sisto]

That's true. We better start than that, huh? Yeah, yeah.

[Don Marshall]

We are skipping the lines of kings of Arnor and Arthadine, the line of chieftains for the remaining Dunedine, as well as I believe it's the line of kings and ruling stewards of Gondor which Tolkien lists. Riveting fiction stuff. Guys really got to hand it to him.

[Alan Sisto]

It's nothing personal. Except for you, Castamir. It's definitely personal for you. It's just that the ones who are ruling when historical events are taking place will be talked about in the context of those events. In other words, we'll get to a Rendur, Arvedui, Romendakil, Eldar, Arur, Kyrion, and all the rest as we get to their stories and instead over these next several episodes.

[Don Marshall]

However, with all of that said, we start tonight's reading at a section on Eriador, Arnor and the heirs of Isildur. And it leads by giving us a little bit of a geography lesson on the sort of region of Eriador. Keep in mind Ariador is a geographical region, while Arnor is the northern kingdom. However, there's a lot of overlap. We'll see, but not entirely.

[Alan Sisto]

Right, so let's start with the bigger picture. Okay. Literally, that's Eriador. It's described as the land between the Eded Luin to the west and the Misty Mountains to the east. The southern border of it is the Gray Flood and its tributary, the Glandoine.

[Don Marshall]

So if you look at a map of Middle Earth, either in your book or the LordOfTheWingsProject.com right now, the map.

[Alan Sisto]

In Karen Wynn Fonstad's excellent atlas of Middle Earth is sadly cut short at the south end. And so it doesn't really help for this particular illustration. Her map on the kingdoms, which we'll get to, it's on page 55, at least in the first edition. That one's very helpful.

[Don Marshall]

It is, yeah. You'll see the big mountain ranges to the east and west. We're going to start there. Since Eriador is only the land between those two ranges, that means that Lindon both for Lindon in the north and Har Lindon in the south are not part of Eriador.

[Alan Sisto]

Right. And then that southern border, if you look at the map, you'll see it's really a southeastern border for the most part. You'll see where the Gray Flood runs southwest, reaching the sea just beyond the Haven of Lawn Dire. It splits Min, Hiriath and Ened, White.

[Don Marshall]

And White being in the south of the Gray Flood. This is not part of Eriador, but Menhiriath to the north of the river. That is part of the region.

[Alan Sisto]

Correct. Now, if you look at that map, you follow the Gray Flood up to Tharbad. That's where the North South Road crosses the river. You'll see that it is fed by the Bruin, and that's the loud water, and that continues almost in a straight line to the northeast. It's also fed, though, by the Glanduin, which goes due east. And it's that river, the Glanduin, that marks the rest of the southern border of Eriador. That means that Eregion, which is to the north of Glanduin, is in the region, but Dunlin to the south, is not.

[Don Marshall]

And just like last week, there will be a test. However, this one, you have to recreate the map based Entirely on our verbal descriptions. Correct. So now that you have a very.

[Alan Sisto]

Clear picture, a crayon, while blindfolded.

[Don Marshall]

Oh, God, no. Alan, please pump the brakes. All right, so now that we have a much clearer picture and a much safer car of the geographical region of Eriador, we move to the Kingdom of Arnor's borders. And you'll see that they overlap a lot, but not completely. So we are told that the regions beyond the loon were not part of Arnort. The Loon is the river that runs mostly north to south between the hills of Evendim and the arid Lewin until it empties out into the Gulf of Lune near Mithlond. It's the Grey Havens. That's the Gulf. It's an east west gulf.

[Alan Sisto]

Right. So the river runs north, south, and the Gulf cuts to the west. But that means that the land between the Ettard Luin and the River Lune was not part of Arnor. Okay, so that's part of Eriador, but not part of Arnor. For the other part of Eriador, that's not Arnor. The lands east of Grey Flood and Loudwater. So go back to that map where we were looking at the Grey Flood and the Glanduin and describe the Glanduin as the southern border of Eriador.

[Don Marshall]

That little wedge of land from Swan Fleet at the sort of southwest corner to Moria at the southeast corner and then Rivendell at the north end. That is all part of Eriador, but not Arnor.

[Alan Sisto]

That's right. Now, that area includes Rivendell as well as the land of Eregion or Holland, where the elves had a huge presence in the Second Age under Celebrimbor in Ost Neville.

[Don Marshall]

Yeah, we are given a brief description of what one of these sort of non Arnor parts of Eriador is like. The land on the west of Lune is said to be Elvish country, but Dwarves live in the eastern portion of the Ered Luin, especially in the southern portion.

[Alan Sisto]

Right. Now, if you remember, in the First Age, Dwarves had two mighty dwellings in these same blue mountains, Belagost and Nod. Now, we're also told a little bit about Kiran and the Grey Havens. Now, of course, we spent a ton of time here praising Kiran in the last episode of season eight. So we'll resist the temptation to spend another 30 minutes telling you just how awesome he is.

[Don Marshall]

We could probably make an entire podcast about it. But we move on to the star of tonight's show. It's the North Kingdom.

[Alan Sisto]

That's right.

[Don Marshall]

After just a mere mention of the eight High Kings of Arnor following Isildur, we jump straight into the split of that kingdom.

[Alan Sisto]

That's right. Now, before we dive in, it is worth reading a quick note from Christopher Tolkien on this entire section from here to the end of tonight's episode. And this is found in the Peoples of Middle Earth. That's volume 12 of History of Middle Earth, in part one of that book, section nine on the making of Appendix A. There, Christopher writes, there is scarcely any rejected preliminary material before the final typescript, from which section one little three, that is what we're covering tonight of Appendix A was printed. Eriador, Arnor and the Heirs of Isildur. On the evidence of the extant texts, this final typescript was the very one in which my father first set down the history of the North Kingdom in continuous narrative form. The story of Arvedui and the Lossoth, the Snowmen of Forgel, wrote itself in precisely the form in which it was presented.

[Don Marshall]

So, in other words, don't expect us to find some hidden gems in the drafts on this kind of stuff.

[Alan Sisto]

Yeah, no, I mean, that's the thing. The draft was the final on this. It's pretty amazing.

[Don Marshall]

This is it. Yeah. Now, this split is mentioned as being caused by dissension among his sons, and there is no suggestion anywhere as to what that dissension was or where or why Earendor, the last High King of arnor, chose, after 800 years of unified rule, to just split the kingdom between them.

[Alan Sisto]

Seriously. I guess he just didn't want to decide. Or maybe he did give it to his eldest and his other brother's like, oh, no, no, no, you're not doing that. Who knows what it looked like? That would be a very interesting story. Like, what was the dissension? What was it that caused them? Who knows?

[Don Marshall]

We've done enough. I've written enough fan fiction. Yeah, on this podcast.

[Alan Sisto]

Yes, you have, Don. Yes, you have. Now, Hammond and Skull take us on a very interesting digression here into the primary world. They talk about how this is exception to the general rule in Tolkien's legendarium that the eldest son, or in Numenor in some cases, the eldest child, inherited the entirety of the kingdom. And that's where we look at the primary world. They look at similar instances in medieval Europe, and they cite a couple. William the Conqueror, having done all the William the Conquering bit, gave his original inheritance of Normandy to his oldest son, Robert, but he gave England his newfound conquest to his second son, William ii, known as William Rufus or William the Red.

[Don Marshall]

Then there's Louis the Pious, King of the Franks and son of Charlemagne, who created different succession plans while he was alive, with the result that his sons not only fought each other, but also attacked their father, each vying to secure a larger share of patrimony. So, yeah, like those kingdoms, Arnor was split into three realms. Yep, Arthedine, Rudauer and Cardalan.

[Alan Sisto]

Right, now, Arthedain was the largest and longest surviving of the three, so of course, we'll get to that in a little bit. Instead, we're going to start with Rudar.

[Don Marshall]

Rhudar was in the northeast and was between the Ettenmoors, the Weather Hills and the Misty Mountains, but also included the Angle between the Harwell and the Loudwater.

[Alan Sisto]

Now, to help you picture this, remember that the Weather Hills are a range that runs north to south, ending at the south end with the peak of Amansul. Those hills form the border of Rhudauer, but they belonged to Arthedain. Now, the Ettenmoors are hills that run west to east. They end at the Misty Mountains at the east end, and they are to the north of Rivendell. So that sort of the southwest and northeast corners of the realm.

[Don Marshall]

Yeah, the East Road kind of forms the southern boundary. So until you get to the Horwell, at which point Rudar also includes the Angle, an area of land that is south of the road between the rivers Methaythal and Bruinen.

[Alan Sisto]

Right. Now, a little bit of word nerdery on Rudaur, it is Sindarin, and it contains the lenited form dower of Tower, meaning forest. You might remember Tauren Fuin, forest under night.

[Don Marshall]

That rue element is interesting. Before Parma El Dalambaron 17 was published, both Hammond and Skull and David Salah suggested that this initial element was a prefix form of rune, meaning east. Thus east Forest, which in this case.

[Alan Sisto]

Certainly fits, and that does make a lot of sense. But Interestingly, in Parma Eldamran 17, the words and phrases in the Lord of the Rings, Tolkien actually tells us that the element ru here means evil. Now, I have to admit, part of me thinks that seems like an unlikely name for the Dunedain to give to their own land. So maybe it's a later name. I mean, like we talked about Akalabeth. You know, the Numenoreans didn't call the island of Numenor Akalabeth until after it had fallen, because it literally means she that has fallen. So maybe here this was only the Evil Forest after it fell to Angmar, I don't know, but this feels like.

[Don Marshall]

Sort of a Mirkwood Greenwood kind of thing. Like, oh, when did it happen? Why did it happen? Is okay, well, you know, the change, it's all the same. Only the names have changed.

[Alan Sisto]

There you go.

[Don Marshall]

Cardalon was to the south of Rudauer. Its western boundary was the Brandywine, from the bridge down to the sea. Similarly, its eastern boundary was the Harwell, from the last bridge to the sea.

[Alan Sisto]

That's right. Now, the northern border was just the East Road. And if you look at a map, you'll figure out why no southern border is mentioned. That's because it's simply the ocean. Right? I mean, it's a wedge of land that runs down to the southwest as those two rivers sort of parallel each other once the Brandywine turns to the southwest. Now, a little word nerdery on Cardalan. It is also Sindarin. Not a surprise. The name is not actually glossed anywhere. But Hammond and Skull, David Salo and Paul Strack have all suggested that it means Red hill country or Red hill land, from the elements karan, meaning red, which we see in Karadhras, or Red Horn, as well as Carcharoth, the red maw, the element dol, meaning head or hill, like Dol, Amroth, dol, Guldur, Mindaluan, etc. And then the Ian suffix, which means land or country. We see variants of that in Ithilian, Valerian, Lorian and others.

[Don Marshall]

You just love your word nerdery.

[Alan Sisto]

I'm even digging into it more. Yeah, absolutely.

[Don Marshall]

This is wild.

[Alan Sisto]

I totally used to defer to Sean on that because he's so much better. He's still better than I am, but I'm having to sort of step him in his absence and sort of fill that role. And I've been trying to embrace it a lot.

[Don Marshall]

Yeah, you've picked up the mantle quite well. So just to kind of provide some context, the reason we started with these two and their geography was because of what is not in either of them. That is a Numinas, the Tower of Elostirion and Amon Sul. What did those three places have in common?

[Alan Sisto]

Well, they had two things in common, Don. One, they were all in the realm of Arnor, and second, they each had a palantir. So. Yeah, so Elesturion and Annuminus were never going to be in dispute. They're deeply in the realm of Arthedain. But the Weather hills were the western border of Rhudar and just across the road from the northern border of Cardalan. Remember, the northern border of Cardalan is that East Road. So it's right there in the southeast corner of Arthedine, right next to both Rudaur and Cardolan. And neither realm was thrilled with this arrangement.

[Don Marshall]

Not happy at all. We said we'd get to Arthedyne, so let's do that.

[Alan Sisto]

All right.

[Don Marshall]

Western border is the Loon, which was the western edge of the Kingdom of Arnor, and its eastern border is the Brandywine River. The next line can be a little bit confusing. The land north of the Great Road, as far as the Weather Hills. But I hear you ask. The Weather Hills are barely north of the road.

[Alan Sisto]

Now, here is where we have to go back to the idea of the eastern border being the Brandywine. If you look at the Brandywine south of the bridge and then south of the Shire, it turns to the southwest and flows to the sea. It is that portion west of the Brandywine that belongs to Arthedine, like the Shire east of the Brandywine, though their region extends north again. So no east of the Brandywine, but south of the Great Road, that's Cartalan. But if you go north of the Great Road, then east of the river is theirs, with the eastern part of that boundary being the Weather Hill. So you've got a kind of a. An extension to the north, but that extension, and it's a big extension because it runs all the way up to the Bay of Forichelle. That extension only goes so far east as the Weather Hills. So it's a. It is a little confusing, but that's how we're able to include, like, Evandim and Anuminous Fornost and the North Downs. That is all part of Arthedain, all the way up, like I said earlier, to the Bay of Forachel. And I know I said for a shell, and that's because it's a lot easier on everybody's ears. It is Foreochel, but we're going to say foreshell just because it's easier.

[Don Marshall]

We're lazy, but we've got some more word nerdery. Alan. Arthedine. Pretty straightforward Sindarin for Realm of the Edain, the elemental Arth, meaning region or realm. And then Edain. Well, for the Edain, the best visual representation that I've sort of seen in these three kingdoms and sort of the extent of the original Kingdom of Arnor is the map on page 55 of the first edition of Fonstad's Atlas.

[Alan Sisto]

Yes, that really is a good illustration of all three of the sort of subsidiary kingdoms or, or successor kingdoms. And as such you can see the large picture of what Arnor originally was. And we'll talk a little bit more about Arnor after the break. It's the new year, so it's time to start turning your resolutions into reality. I know for me that means getting back to the gym after a rough year, fitness wise and well, without getting too blunt. That also means trying to smell better. And there's a resolution we could all use. I've been using Mando. It's a whole body deodorant. I've been using it for a few weeks now and I've really been happy with, well, with smelling better. Mando is a whole body deodorant. So you don't just use it on your armpits. Any place on your body that could use a bit of odor control. You can use Mando there. Yes, there too. It's proven to block and control odors all day, even in this tiny podcast booth. And it's available in solid stick spray or even cream. Now, personally, I like the pro sport scent, but bourbon leather is pretty nice too. Now, as a special offer for our listeners, new customers get $5 off a starter pack with our exclusive code. Now that equates to over 40% off your starter pack. Use code [e-mail] S H O P M A N D O.COM Please support our show and tell them we sent you smell fresher, stay drier and boost your confidence with Mando. Now soon we're going to get back to the arrival of evil in Arnor. I don't know what they ordered, but UPS is here and they're delivering a box of evil. Hello, Is this your evil? Apparently so. So evil arrives in Arnor. But before we do, we want to remind you there's a lot more talk going on at the Prancing Pony Podcast, thankfully, than just us.

[Don Marshall]

And none of it is evil. The Prancing Phony podcast has an amazing lawful, good listening community, or at least chaotic good.

[Alan Sisto]

I mean, nobody in the evil realm.

[Don Marshall]

Definitely on the good side, but they are always coming up with great questions and discussion across all of our social media spaces. You can check out our common room on Facebook, our dedicated subreddit, Twitter and.

[Alan Sisto]

More now on Facebook. Just look for the Prancing Pony podcast. Follow the page yes, but you're going to want to join the group to get in some great discussions.

[Don Marshall]

Or if you prefer Reddit, you can find us there@r prancingponypod on Twitter and Instagram. We are simply prancingponypod.

[Alan Sisto]

And if you want daily Tolkien content, please please consider checking out today's Tolkien times on YouTube and all your favorite podcast apps. It's a short format daily show I've been working on now for a year and a half. It's everything from Mailbag Mondays to Word Nerd Wednesdays and Silmarillion Saturdays. Be sure to check it [e-mail] Tolkien Times and follow TolkienTimes on all your social media Dawn Evil's gonna come to Arnor. Can you read about it for us?

[Don Marshall]

I think I can, Alan in my evil voice.

[Alan Sisto]

Oh yes, he must do the evil voice.

[Don Marshall]

It was the beginning of the reign of Malvagil of Arthedyne.

[Alan Sisto]

That evil. Okay, I can't do the evil.

[Don Marshall]

Yeah, sorry. Too much. We can't keep going it was the beginning of the reign of Malvigil of Arthedain that evil came to Arnor, for at that time the realm of Angmar arose in the north beyond the Edinmoors. Its lands lay on both sides of the mountains, and there were gathered many evil men, and orcs and other fell creatures. The lord of that land was known as the Witch King, but it was not known until later that he was indeed the chief of the Ringwraiths, who came north with the purpose of destroying the Dunedain in Arnor, seeing hope in their disunion while Gondor was strong in the days of Argeleb, son of Malvigil, since no descendant of Isildur remained in the other kingdoms, the kings of Arthedain again claimed the lordship of all Arnor. The claim was resisted by Rhudaur. There the Dunedain were few, and power had been seized by an evil lord of the hillmen, who was in secret league with Angmar. Argeleb therefore fortified the Weather Hills, but he was slain in battle with Rhudar and Angmar. Arveleg, son of Argeleb, with the help of Cardalon and Lindon, drove back his enemies from the hills, and for many years Arthedain and Cardolan held in force a frontier along the Weather Hills, the Great Road, and the Lower Horwell. It is said that at this time Rivendell was besieged. A great host came out of Angmar in 1409, and crossing the river, entered Cardalan and surrounded Weathertop. The Dunedain were defeated, and Arvelek was slain. The tower of Amon Sul was burned and razed, but the Palantir was saved and carried Back in retreat to Fornost, Rhudaur was occupied by evil men subject to Angmar, and the Dunedain that remained there were slain or fled. West Cardolan was ravaged. Araphor, son of Arveleg, was not yet full grown, but he was valiant, and with aid from Cirdan he repelled the enemy from Fornost and the North Downs. A remnant of the faithful among the Dunedain of Cardolan also held out in Tir Ngorthad the Barrow Downs, or took refuge in the forest behind. It is said that Angmar was for a time subdued by the Elven folk coming from Lindon and from Rivendell, for Elrond brought help over the mountains out of Lorien.

[Alan Sisto]

Yay, Elrond. All right, the text says that evil came to Arnor in the time of the reign of Malavigil. Now he was the sixth ruler of Arthedain after that three way split in third age 861. His reign began a little more than 400 years after that split in third age 1272. This incident, evil coming to Arnor in the text happened around the year third age 1300.

[Don Marshall]

Now what incident is that? Oh, just the arising of the kingdom of Angmar, led by some guy calling himself the Witch King. Was it?

[Alan Sisto]

Witch King. The Witch King, but Witch King, who's on first?

[Don Marshall]

Yes, exactly.

[Alan Sisto]

Yeah. I love this bracketed statement here, by the way, that says in essence, hey, we didn't know that this Witch King fella here was the Lord of the Nazgul. We also didn't know that he came up here with the goal of wiping out the Dunedin, because we're just low hanging fruit up here in the north, thanks to our little petty squabbles leading Arnor to be split up.

[Don Marshall]

Another example of how this division in Middle Earth creates weakness and unity creates strength. This is a huge theme of Tolkien. This is just like we're stronger together. The literal power of friendship, but in this case it's politics.

[Alan Sisto]

Same thing happens even in the south when you end up with the Civil War and Castamere, as we'll end up talking about, I think next week, you know, we see that's when they become, you know, more vulnerable to attacks from the Wain Riders and things along those lines. It's. It's always better to be united, to face that enemy as one. And here, Arnor, in three little kingdoms, the Witch Kings like, well, Gondor is strong. Arnor not so much. Let's go get the easy win.

[Don Marshall]

I always liken it to A bag of tea. If you take all of the individual leaves and you put them in one by one, they're sort of floating around, not really doing much. But if you. You put the tea in the bag and they're all together.

[Alan Sisto]

Right.

[Don Marshall]

They all start seeping. And you leave them all together long enough, they form a much stronger cup of tea. Okay, so metaphor might need a little.

[Alan Sisto]

Okay, all right, all right.

[Don Marshall]

Kind of the same thing. Ish.

[Alan Sisto]

So Angmar, by the way, since we've talked about the geography, all these other areas, we need to kind of provide a little more description about Angmar here as well. The text says both sides of the mountains. It's referring here to the Misty Mountains. Angmar ran from Karn Doom at the very western end of the Ered Mithrim. Those are the Gray Mountains, all the way past Mount Gundabad, which is sort of at the junction of the Ered Mithran and the Misty Mountains, and then east to above the sources of the Anduin. So it's sort of an east west range through the mountains, both on the west side of the Misty Mountains and primarily on the west, but also on the east side.

[Don Marshall]

Yeah. And keep in mind, this wasn't just a bunch of orcs in a mountain. There were also evil men, other fell creatures, whatever that means. Tolkien. I'm sure he's got an imagination like that.

[Alan Sisto]

He does.

[Don Marshall]

That were also under the rule of the Witch King.

[Alan Sisto]

That's right. So now that we've talked about Angmar briefly, let's go back to Arthedain. All of this began quietly during the reign of Malvigil. But after he died in 1349, it was his son, Argelab I, that became the king of Arthedain. But his reign lasted only seven years.

[Don Marshall]

Fairly short lived reign, all things considered. He claimed lordship over the lands of Arnor, basically trying to reunify the three realms into a kingdom one more time, since there was no more descendants of Isildur remaining in Cardalan. Or Rudaur.

[Alan Sisto]

Right.

[Don Marshall]

Rudaur, if you look at a map, was clearly the realm most threatened by Angmar just because of its location. Yeah. Rudaur opposed this, having been taken over by who the text says was an evil lord of the Hillman in secret league with Angmar.

[Alan Sisto]

That's right. Now Argelab strengthens his border with Rudaur, the Weather Hills, but is killed in battle against them. Now, on another note, I want to talk about this. We know nothing about these hillmen beyond the fact that they're men. And at some point live near or in Rudar. That's literally all we know. We do get a clue or two in peoples of Middle Earth. In the Heirs of Elendil. We read in the entry for Arvel that in Rudaur, an evil folk, workers of sorcery, subjects of Angmar, slay the remnants of the Dunedain and build dark forts in the hills.

[Don Marshall]

And in the Tale of Years of the Third Age, which is drafts of the Tale of Years, we read something fairly similar. But in Rhudaur, for long there dwelt an evil people out of the north, much given to sorcery. In a note to the section of Dwarves and Men, we are told when Hobbits entered eriador shortly after third age year, 100 men were still numerous there. Both Numenoreans and other men related to the Etani, beside remnants of men of evil kind hostile to the king. So maybe that's who's there, just sort of the remnants of these evil humans.

[Alan Sisto]

Maybe. So with Argelab dead, his son Arveleg, who began his rule then in third age 1356, allies himself with Cardalan and the elves of Lindon. And that's a big deal that enables him to drive Angmar back. Remember we talked about being stronger together. This is a great example of that. Now he ends up holding a frontier along the border with Rhudaur. So that's the Weatherhills, north, south and then east, west along the road to where it met with Cardalan's border with Rhudaur, the Horwell. And then that went south to where it met with the loud water to form the Gray flood. So that's the frontier of Cardalan and Arthedain against Rhudaur at that point.

[Don Marshall]

Yeah. And so we have this sort of long standing, more than 50 years go by, this tension. It's now third age 1409, when a large army comes out of Angmar and just absolutely wrecks the place. They come through Cardalon over the river. So that would be the Horwell. They work their way west and a little bit more north to surround Weathertop.

[Alan Sisto]

That's right. Now the Dunedain are beaten. Arveleg himself is killed. The tower of Amon Sul is destroyed, but fortunately the Palantir in it was carried away in time and taken back to Fornost, which was at the time the capital of Arthedine.

[Don Marshall]

We're reminded here that Rudaur is now fully evil. Evil. Any remaining Dunedain have left the places now occupied by Evil men subject to Angmar. And that's when we get to an underrated hero of that day. Arafor, the new king of Arthedain, after the death of his father, Arveleg.

[Alan Sisto]

That's right. Now, Arafor is just a kid. He's 18 years old when he becomes king. But the text describes him as valiant, and we see him being exactly that now. Ciridan, the most amazing elf still remaining in the Third Age. I'm going to keep banging that drum. Sorry, Galadriel. Kieran, not surprisingly, helps young Arafor out. And together they are able to drive these evil men from the capital of Arthurdyne. That's fornost. And from the surrounding region of the North Downs.

[Don Marshall]

I respect you for really liking Kirdon, but I just gotta say, if you don't really have too many written lines, all things considered, that's fair. It's a tough pull, but I respect the hustle.

[Alan Sisto]

I just, you know, when, you know, all the things that he did and all the things he gave up, and you see how much he wanted to go to Valinor, and yet he stayed and did what the Valor told him to do. I mean, the. The guy just is.

[Don Marshall]

Yeah.

[Alan Sisto]

Amazing. And then he comes to everybody's rescue. Everybody.

[Don Marshall]

Yeah.

[Alan Sisto]

Kieran Saves the Day is like the theme of half a dozen moments in the Second and Third Ages.

[Don Marshall]

Yeah, he's kind of awesome.

[Alan Sisto]

He pretty much is. Yeah.

[Don Marshall]

We also get a mention of where the last of the Dunedain from Cardalon are hanging around. This is Tiran Gorthad, which is the Barrow Downs, or in what the text says is the forest behind. So that would be the Old Forest for those of you that are keeping track at home.

[Alan Sisto]

Now, I'm trying to remember if I talked about this on this show or on Rings of Power Wrap up or the ttt. I can't always remember and keep it all straight. I think it was on Rings of Power Wrap up when they were in the Barrow Downs. I want to talk about the pronunciation of Tyrn Gorthad real quick. That Y in Sindarin is actually always a vowel. So, you know, it's. It's. It's never a constant. Like, it can be in Quenya, and it actually isn't pronounced like the E that we're pronouncing it as. Not in Sindarin proper. Now, that is the Gondorian pronunciation. So I'm going to stick with it because Tirungorthad sounds right to me, and I'm more Gondorian than I am Sindarin but the Y in Sindarin, Tolkien actually makes this very clear. Is pronounced like the. The German U with the umlaut. So it's. You make an U shape with your lips, so oo. But then you say E. So you make the shape with your lips and then go.

[Don Marshall]

Go.

[Alan Sisto]

Right. So yes, it's even. I can't even do it because it's so hard to go from a consonant to that sound and then come back out to a rolled R, but more like a Turangorthat rather than Tiringorthat.

[Don Marshall]

Our mouths kind of look like fish right now as we attempt to.

[Alan Sisto]

I remember not being able to make that sound very well when I took three years of high school German and a year or two of college German. I still couldn't do it. It's sort of thing. Anyway, more on the Bear Downs in the next section. So let's keep going. Angmar gets put down for a little bit now. We'll see it again in around 500 years. But that's all thanks to Kiran and to Elrond. Elves to the left of me, elves to the right. Here I am stuck in the middle with you, Don.

[Don Marshall]

And thanks to this temporary suppression of evil, being stuck in the middle in the part we didn't read, we learned that the stores were living in the Angle that is the triangle of land with the Horwell on the west, Loudwater in the east and the Troll Shawls in the north. They peace out of here.

[Alan Sisto]

Yeah.

[Don Marshall]

The text says they fled west and south thanks to Angmar and a change in the weather in part in that part of Eriador.

[Alan Sisto]

That's right. Now, most of those stores went west and south, but a few went back over the Misty Mountains, the text tells us, and live next to the Gladden. Now, that's the river that runs east from the Misty Mountains down to the Anduin, passing through the Gladden fields. Clearly a direct reference to Smeagol and the kin that he was descended from.

[Don Marshall]

This is a nice little nod to the fact that there are lots of Hobbits just sort of strolling around and definitely not in any danger whatsoever.

[Alan Sisto]

That's right.

[Don Marshall]

All right, Alyn, I think we've got our next portion of the reading. You ready to go?

[Alan Sisto]

All right. In the days of Argelab ii, the plague came into Eriador from the southeast. And most of the people of Cardalan perished, especially in Menhiriath. The Hobbits and all other peoples suffered greatly. But the plague lessened as it passed northwards and the northern Parts of Arthedain were little affected. It was at this time that an end came of the Dunedain of Cardolan, and evil spirits out of Angmar and Rhudaur entered into the deserted mounds and dwelt there. It is said that the mounds of Tirn Korthad, as the Barrow Downs were called, of old, are very ancient, and that many were built in the days of the Old World of the First Age by the forefathers of the Edain, before they crossed the Blue Mountains into Beleriand, of which Lindon is all that now remains. Those hills were therefore revered by the Dunedain after their return, and there many of their lords and kings were buried. Some say that the mound in which the ring bearer was imprisoned had been the grave of the last prince of Cardalan, who fell in the War of 1409. In 1974, the power of Angmar rose again, and the Witch King came down upon Arthedain. Before winter was ended, he captured Fornost and drove most of the remaining Dunedain over the Lune. Among them were the sons of the king. But King Arvedwy held out upon the North Downs until the last, and then fled north with some of his guard, and they escaped by the swiftness of their horses. For a while Arvedui hid in the tunnels of the old dwarf mines near the far end of the mountains, but he was driven at last by hunger to seek the help of the Lossoth, the snowmen of Forroshel. Some of these he found encamped by the seashore, but they did not help the king willingly, for he had nothing to offer them save a few jewels which they did not value, and they were afraid of the Witch King, who they said could make frost or thaw at his will. But partly out of pity for the gaunt king and his men, and partly out of fear of their weapons, they gave them a little food and built for them snow huts. There Arvedui was forced to wait, hoping for help from the south, for his horses had perished. When Cirdan heard from Aranarth, son of Arvedwi, of the king's flight to the north, he at once sent a ship to Foreschel to seek for him. The ship came there at last, after many days, because of contrary winds, and the mariners saw from afar the little fire of driftwood which the lost men contrived to keep alight. But the winter was long in loosing its grip that year, and though it was then March, the ice was only beginning to break and lay far out.

[Don Marshall]

From the Shore before Angmar rises again. Spoilers. It does. Yeah, the plague does a little softening up. First, the text here doesn't tell us a year. It just mentions in the days of Argeleb II, but his reign was from 1589 to 1670. We do know, though, that the great plague that devastated Gondor hit there in 1636. So it was likely the same year or the year after.

[Alan Sisto]

Right now, the plague wiped out most of Cardalan, especially those living in Minhiriath. That's the southern portion of Cardalan. It's the part that's between the rivers Brandywine and Grey Flood that sort of runs towards the sea. And in fact, by the way, that's what Menhiriath means, between the rivers in Sindarin, from Min, meaning between, and the Leonid form hir, from sir river. And the class plural ending.

[Don Marshall]

You are just working in all of these word nerdery things without even trying. I love it.

[Alan Sisto]

Gave some of it to you here.

[Don Marshall]

Yeah, yeah, I appreciate that. Because we've got another fun fact In a letter in 1969 that Tolkien wrote referenced in A Nature of Middle Earth, which was edited by Karl Hofstadter. This is chapter 22, the rivers and Beacon Hills of Gondor. He was explaining that Edenweith was a region between the realm of Gondor and the slowly receding realm of Arnor. It originally included Minhiriath, Mesopotamia.

[Alan Sisto]

Now, why the reference Tolkien to Mesopotamia? Well, because the name Mesopotamia carries the literal meaning between rivers, in this case the Tigris and Euphrates. But it literally is the same thing linguistically as Menhirioth.

[Don Marshall]

It hit everyone else, but the impact of the plague lessened as it moved north. So the northern parts of Arthedyne think like Lake Evendim, and north was apparently little affected by this.

[Alan Sisto]

Right. But this was also the time that something else happened. Evil spirits entered into the Barrow Downs and took up residence in the old graves.

[Don Marshall]

And they didn't just arrive on their own. The text here doesn't say. But if we go to unfinished tales, the Hunt for the Ring, we read that the Witch King had known something of the country long ago and his wars with the Dunedain, and especially of Tir Ngorthad of Cardalan, now the Barrow Downs, whose evil wights had been sent there by himself.

[Alan Sisto]

And then of course, we get the Sindarin name Tirangerthad. And that's what we were talking about earlier, the pronunciation of that. If you watched Rings of Power, you might have heard it pronounced turngorthard and that is correct. Like I said, the Y in Sindarin is a vowel, and it's pronounced like the German umlaut u. But in Gondor, it is pronounced e. So Tirngorthat is also correct. The phrase itself is a compound of the plural tiern, from the singular torn, meaning burial mound, and gorthad, meaning wraith or spirit of the dead. And that is also from parma El Dalabaron. 17 words and phrases in the Lord of the Rings. In case you're wondering, it's a great resource.

[Don Marshall]

The Downs themselves have been around for ages. They are just rolling hills, but the Barrows have been around a long time as well. The Old World of the First Age, before men crossed the Blue Mountains into Valerian.

[Alan Sisto]

That is a long, long, long time ago, folks. I mean, that's sometime between years of the Sun, 1, when men first arose, and Year of the Sun 310, when men were first encountered in Beleriand by Finrod. That's exceedingly long time.

[Don Marshall]

It's a long time. This explains why they were held basically in reverence by the Dunedain and why they buried their lords and kings there.

[Alan Sisto]

That's right. Including the last Prince of Cardalan, whose memories Mary experienced in the Barrow. Of course. I remember. He said, the men of Karndum came on us at night and we were worsted. Ah, the spear in my heart, he clutched at his breast. No, no, he said, opening his eyes. What am I saying? I have been dreaming. That was quite a moment in the text, I gotta say. That was. I mean, for him to be sort of. To experience that directly, you know, firsthand, to sort of feel like he is the Prince of Cardalan being slain right there, that's some power. Yeah.

[Don Marshall]

Some very powerful evil magic, too, to be able to affect people all those years later. So remember when I said that the power of Angmar would rise again, Alan?

[Alan Sisto]

Yeah, yeah, I do remember that.

[Don Marshall]

That is what's happening now.

[Alan Sisto]

Oh, no. I am surprised. I am utterly shocked.

[Don Marshall]

Get ready, because it gets worse. The plague comes around in 1636, so it's another 300 years after that, the Witch King came down again. Out of Angmar, he took Arthedain's capital of Fornos and then forced most of the remaining men across the loon, that is out of Arthedain and into Elvish country.

[Alan Sisto]

Right now, two of those men that fled into Elvish country are the sons of King Arvedui. We only know the name of one of them, as we find out later. And it's the eldest son, Aronara North. Yeah.

[Don Marshall]

We should add that even though this was a very sudden attack, it's not entirely unexpected. As we'll read in two weeks, Arvedui had been in touch with Gondor first when he claimed the crown of Gondor after the death of Andaher and his sons. His claim, though, was rejected, and we'll get to that in two weeks. But after that, Ar Neil, who had become the king of Gondor, sent messages basically promising to aid our Vedui if needed.

[Alan Sisto]

Right. And that's when we read. It was, however, long before Earnil felt himself sufficiently secure to do as he promised. King Arafant, Arved's father, continued with dwindling strength to hold off the assaults of Angmar, and Arvedui, when he succeeded, did likewise. But at last, in the autumn of 1973, messages came to Gondor that Arthedain was in great straits and that the Witch King was preparing a last stroke against it. Then Earnil sent his son Earnur north with a fleet as swiftly as he could and with as great strength as he could spare. Too late, before Earnur reached the havens of Lindon, the Witch King had conquered Arthedain. And by the way, it's also in a couple of weeks when we'll do a breakdown on Arvedui's name. This is all connected, I promise.

[Don Marshall]

This is just Tolkien sort of working his magic as things become connected and interweaved. And this is part of the reason why I love Tolkien so much.

[Alan Sisto]

I mean, what's wild is here we are talking about the split of Arnor into these kingdoms, and the last of those kingdoms, Arthedain, surviving but almost being gone. And one of the reasons that it doesn't survive is because Arvedui, who had the legitimate claim to the throne, had his claim rejected in the South. It's wild. It's wild.

[Don Marshall]

It really is. It feels like just a giant miscommunication or being too stubborn to actually see the danger right here, because Arvedui basically holds out as best as he can in the North Downs, then flees to the north, first hiding in some dwarven mining tunnels before eventually driven by, of all things, hunger, tries to get some help from Lossoth.

[Alan Sisto]

Now, the footnote to this tells us that the Lossoth were a strange, unfriendly people, remnant of the Forodwaith Men of far off days, accustomed to the bitter colds of the realm of Morgoth. Indeed, those colds linger still in that region, though they lie hardly more than a hundred leagues north of the Shire. The Lossoth house in the snow. And it is said that they can run on the ice with. With bones on their feet and have carts without wheels. Yeah.

[Don Marshall]

The name Lossoth is Sindarin and contains the element of loss, Snow, as in Thanuilos. Snow White, one of the names of Varda and Uilos, which is ever White, one of the names the elves give the flower symbol, Moon.

[Alan Sisto]

Right. But it also contains the element Hoth, not related to the ice planet Hoth, despite the similar cold temperatures and snow. Though now I want to see the loss of running around on Tauntauns and Arved, we cutting one open. To get himself wrapped up in the guts of it, to keep himself warm.

[Don Marshall]

Yeah, I don't know if Tolkien would probably approve of that. No, we might need to pump the brakes again on that one. It's a little. It's a little graphic, Alan, can I tell you?

[Alan Sisto]

Speaking of graphic. And nobody's ever going to eat a funnel cake again. My son, when he was 6, no, we ordered a funnel cake at Disneyland. He goes, look, Tauntaun guts. Oh.

[Don Marshall]

Oh, my. No, thank you. No, thank you.

[Alan Sisto]

There's the shape, the little curvy that I'm like, oh, man, dude, now I don't want this. I mean. But, yes, I do, anyway.

[Don Marshall]

Yeah, no, I still do. Sorry, that didn't change anything.

[Alan Sisto]

No, absolutely. Now I'm craving one. So it does contain the element Hoth. And like I said, sorry, all the Empire Strikes Back jokes aside, Hoth is Sindarin for host or horde. But here's the thing. It's almost always in a bad or evil or negative sense, right? You think of Balcoth, the people of the Easterlings that were related to the Wainwright, or the most obvious word, the Sindarin word for Orcs, Glamhoth. That's the din or yelling horde. We even get Gowerhoth, which is the plural for werewolves. So I don't think, mostly because they also didn't speak Sindarin, that this was their own name for themselves. This is very much an outsider name for them. And honestly, it's a bit derogatory. Right. The Lossoth, I mean, you can think of. What about the Rim Element, like Rohirrim or the Galadhrim? I mean, we could have called them the Lostrim and they'd be the Snow People, but we've called them the Lost Soth. And that Hoth element, host or Horde, definitely has a negative connotation. It's very interesting. But we're never told what they call themselves. It's very interesting. I want to know more about them.

[Don Marshall]

This definitely seems to be the case of history and names being given by the winners or the people in power. For sure.

[Alan Sisto]

That's a fair point. Now, I will say totally not canonically speaking, but lotro, Lord of the Rings online, which I really do enjoy as sort of a. An extension of canon, if you will. They model a lot of the language of the Lossoth and their culture after the Finnish and Sami people. And there they call themselves the Lumivaki. I don't know what they call themselves in the real world, you know, in Tolkien's Middle Earth, but I sort of like to think of them as the Lumivaki.

[Don Marshall]

The way Tolkien's lore works, there's layers on layers. It feels like a group project at this point.

[Alan Sisto]

It kind of does, yeah.

[Don Marshall]

One person did all of the work.

[Alan Sisto]

Work, especially on these. These borders. You know, the things where we don't get anything on them. There's nothing else about them. The Hillmen. There's nothing about the Hillman. I want to know more about them too. Right.

[Don Marshall]

I bet you they lived in hills.

[Alan Sisto]

I bet you they did. And we do know that they were into sorcery and they came from the north. That's all we know. And maybe they used to be related to the loss off and there's a split between them.

[Don Marshall]

So another divided kingdom. We've had one divided kingdom, yes. What about second? Divided.

[Alan Sisto]

We do know that the. The. The Lossoth were a remnant of the Fora. Dwight were accustomed to the bitter colds, the realm of Morgoth. So maybe. Anyway, continue.

[Don Marshall]

So whatever they called themselves, and however unfriendly they might have been, they did show him pity and gave them food and shelter. He didn't have anything that they wanted to trade for, but they were a bit afraid of the weapons too, so.

[Alan Sisto]

Yeah, I can imagine that.

[Don Marshall]

Yeah. So he waited there and with no choice, basically, since his horses were all dead.

[Alan Sisto]

Yeah. I mean, where are you going to go? You got to wait here for help. So now back to the best third Age elf. I will brook no dissent. Kieran sends us to look for him. Right. Kiran to the rescue. Sends a ship when he hears word that he's headed north.

[Don Marshall]

Yeah. This is something that Alan and I are going to fight about, but it does take a long time for the ships to get there, so maybe it wasn't that good of an elf. But eventually they do spot just a little fire that Arvedui and his men have made.

[Alan Sisto]

I don't see Galadriel sending a ship.

[Don Marshall]

Sorry. She does everything by wireless Bluetooth connections.

[Alan Sisto]

Yeah, yeah, sorry.

[Don Marshall]

But because it is still March and that it's been a cold winter, the ice went pretty far out from the shore, meaning the boat could not approach closely.

[Alan Sisto]

Yeah, the Lossoth. And they were going to check with Punxsutawney Phil to see when the winner was going to end. I can see it now.

[Don Marshall]

Your. Your European viewers listening to this right now are just like, who have we explained? Have we explained Punxsutaw?

[Alan Sisto]

I've never explained Punxsutaw Phil. Let's give us give folks the 32nd TLDR version.

[Don Marshall]

A large squirrel predicting the weather. Just watch the movie Groundhog Day. You'll get everything you need from that.

[Alan Sisto]

All right, well, we'll be right back, folks. Now, folks, if you enjoy the show, please consider supporting the PPP by joining the Fellowship of the podcast. It's what gives me the ability to work on making this show better every year, despite co hosts like Don. I'm just kidding. Wow. Wow.

[Don Marshall]

No, I respect the joke. Well done.

[Alan Sisto]

It's perfect. I mean, no, now, when you join, folks, and you really should, you get the best Discord community around. I know Don can testify to that. It includes live episode recordings and hangouts every month. You also get episode postscripts, which are a lot of fun. You can get ad free episodes, free merch, and more.

[Don Marshall]

You can also become part of our Questions After Nightfall episodes, which I'm much better at than Alan. Sorry, I had to defend myself.

[Alan Sisto]

No, it's true. I do not deny I'm.

[Don Marshall]

I'm a millennial. I have more Discord knowledge and I speak the lingo. But anyway, you can join us there, or you can even join us as a guest in the north wing. So Please go to patreon.72. Just kidding. Prancing Pony. See what I did there? You see what I did there?

[Alan Sisto]

I do. I do.

[Don Marshall]

Patreon.com Prancing Pony pod to show your support and join the Fellowship of the Podcast.

[Alan Sisto]

Now, of course, you can always help us out by giving us a rating and review on Apple podcasts as well. Or a rating on Spotify. And please recommend us to your friends. In the meantime, Don, would you please continue reading about our last king?

[Don Marshall]

Get ready, Rudolph. We've got some snow related things coming in. When the snowmen saw the ship, they were amazed and afraid, for they had seen no such ship on the sea within their memories. But they had become now more friendly. And they drew the king and those that survived of his company out over the ice in their sliding carts as far as they dared. In this way a boat from the ship was able to reach them. But the snowmen were uneasy, for they said that they smelled danger in the wind. And the chief of the Lossoth said to Arvedwi, do not mount on this sea monster if they have them. Let the seamen bring us food and other things that we need. And you may stay here till the Witch King goes home. For in summer his power wanes, but now his breath is deadly and his cold arm is long. Barvedwi did not take his counsel. He thanked him and at parting gave him his ring, saying, this is a thing of worth beyond your reckoning. For its ancientry alone it has no power save the esteem in which those hold it who love my house. It will not help you. But if ever you are in need, my kin will ransom it with great stores of all that you desire. Yet the counsel of the Lossoth was good by chance or by foresight. For the ship had not reached the open sea when a great storm of wind arose and came with blinding snow out of the north. And it drove the ship back upon the ice and piled ice up against it. Even the mariners of Cirdan were helpless. And in the night the ice crushed the hull and the ship foundered. So perished Arvedui, last king and with him the Palantiri were buried in the sea. It was long afterwards that news of the shipwreck of Foreshell. Foreshell for Rochell. It was long afterwards that the news of the shipwreck of Foreshell was learned from the snowmen. The Shire Folk survived, though war swept over them and most of them fled into hiding. To the help of the king they sent some archers who never returned. And others went also to the battles in which Angmar was overthrown, of which more is said in the annals of the South. Afterwards, in the peace that followed, the Shire Folk ruled themselves and prospered. They chose a Thane to take the place of the king and were content. Though for a long time many still looked for the return of the king.

[Alan Sisto]

It's right there on the shelf, next to the two towers. Yeah, so we're reminded once again that this was written by the Hobbits. You know, we didn't mention this in the very first reading, but back when the very first paragraph I read something about. For this reason they talking about the Dwarves were accustomed to pass east along the Great Road as they'd done for long years before we came to the Shire. So here we have yet another reminder that this is written by the Hobbit survivors. And, of course, it's also why they mentioned the little, you know, platoon of archers that were set. But we'll get to that.

[Don Marshall]

Love those.

[Alan Sisto]

In the meantime, let's call them the Lost Rim. At least people like the Rohirrim, the Los Rim, had never seen a ship. Like, I guess that would be the Lothrim, then. I think that would actually Linnite.

[Don Marshall]

Change the pronunciation.

[Alan Sisto]

Loss the Lothrim. I think if I remember, I may be wrong, but let's call them that for fun. For kicks and giggles. They had never seen a ship like the one Kieran sent. And that makes a lot of sense. Not only are they in a very cold region, one very inhospitable for maritime travel, as we see. So really, really, really remote.

[Don Marshall]

Yeah. And, you know, no doubt they had small canoes, maybe like some fishing vessels. But this, this was beyond their comprehension. And it led to something that Tolkien uses a lot, both amazement and fear. And so in overcoming their fear, they have become now more friendly. So they help by bringing the King, his remaining men out onto the boats via sled, where the ship's boat could reach them.

[Alan Sisto]

That's very kind of them, but now they have some wisdom to offer. And, yes, Arvad, we. You should have listened. They smell danger. Smells like Teen Spirit. And the Chief, who's, you know, clearly they're more than just friendly now because it's the Chief himself who's giving this advice. Right. So, I mean, the entire, you know, the tribe has officially welcomed them. He's the one who tells our Ved, we do not get on this ship. And I love the way phrase it, do not mount on this sea monster.

[Don Marshall]

Yeah, I love that he calls it a sea monster, too. That's so great.

[Alan Sisto]

And, yeah, isn't that cool?

[Don Marshall]

Yeah, he sees it in the wind, but instead have them give you food and you should basically stay until summer, until the Witch King is less powerful. Also recall in the last section, we read that they were afraid of the Witch King, who they said could make frost or thaw at his will. So if they believe that he could do this, then, of course, they could see summer as a time of the waning of his power.

[Alan Sisto]

Right. But here's the question. Could the Witch King actually do this? Now, here's the. I actually don't see why not. Right.

[Don Marshall]

We're.

[Alan Sisto]

Yeah, we're told twice that he was a sorcerer even before he was Given one of the Nine by Sauron. Back in the Council of Elrond Gandalf's telling about his conversation with Radagast who's the one who brought him the news that the Nine are seeking for the Shire. Gandalf explains. For even the wise might fear to withstand the Nine when they are gathered together under their fell chieftain. A great king and sorcerer he was of old and now he wields a deadly fear.

[Don Marshall]

Yeah, this is definitely. I'm getting some, like, warlock intimidation vibes where there's some sort of magical power. But it's mostly a brain sort of thing because remember later in the siege of Gondor Gandalf is debating Denethor and saying. Yet now under the Lord of Barad Dur the most fell of all his captains is already master of your outer walls. King of Angmar, long ago sorcerer. Ringwraith, Lord of the Nazgul. A Spear of Terror in the hand of Sauron. Shadow of despair. So definitely a lot there about powers and abilities that are sort of, to me read as a much more mental thing. Striking fear into the hearts of things. Making you feel cold. Making you feel that terror, that fear, that despair.

[Alan Sisto]

Well, and of course, you know, he does have the ring by now. He's been, you know, wielding one of the Nine for. For some time now. Combine that with the fact that he was a powerful king and sorcerer even before. It doesn't shock me that he'd have the ability maybe to enhance winter like, I think summer probably is a period of his waning strength in the sense that, you know, he'd have to exert a lot more energy, a lot more power, a lot more force in order to make something cold. Whereas in the winter, he doesn't have to do as much to make it a little colder or to keep the cold from thawing early. Right.

[Don Marshall]

So, like, you might want to. Might want to invest in a thermos. Maybe something.

[Alan Sisto]

Could we get a sponsorship, maybe to talk about that? We could. We could, you know, no joke.

[Don Marshall]

No joke. I have had a thermos company reach out to have you see what we can do.

[Alan Sisto]

There you go. Well, talk about that. Yeah.

[Don Marshall]

All right. So did our veg. We listen? No, of course not. Why would he do that?

[Alan Sisto]

Nobody ever listens.

[Don Marshall]

No, no. Instead, he gives him the most valuable heirloom. Not anything, you know, practical or useful like a thermos, but especially here, in for a shell, but of immense and immeasurable worth to the Dunedin.

[Alan Sisto]

That's right. And I want to do a quick sidebar here on this. If it's not clear what ring he's talking about, this is the Ring of Barahir. And, yep, I don't think we've ever done a sidebar on just how well traveled shall we say this ring is. It was made in Valinor by the Noldor in the years of the Trees. So it is ancient. It belonged to Finrod Felegon, who took it with him into exile and wore it in Nargothrond. So that means it's at least 6,000 years old at the time. Arvedwi gives it to the Chief of the Snowmen, which makes it actually a little over 7,000. At least 7,100 years old by the time of the War of the Ring, when Aragorn is wearing it.

[Don Marshall]

At his coronation, when Barahir saved his life at the Dagor Bragalok, Finrod gave the ring to him as a token of friendship between Finrod and the House of Barahir. Barahir wore it for the rest of his life. And then when he died, his hand was still wearing the ring. Read the tale of Baron and Luthien. It'll explain a lot more. The hand had been taken by an Orc leader. And then Baron, his son, avenged his father and retrieved the hand, taking the ring and burying the hand with his father.

[Alan Sisto]

Yeah, so he didn't bury the ring, he kept the ring. And that's a good thing because later on he would show the ring to Thingol as sort of an indication of his standing, of his friendship with the elves. And then he used it again, holding it up high above his head to keep him safe when entering Finrod's realm. That is when Finrod then chose to honor his oath and ended up, long story short, giving his life to save Beren. It eventually threw Dior, the son of Baron and Luthien, his daughter Elwing, and then her son Elros. The ring of Barahir made it to Numenor.

[Don Marshall]

It was an heirloom of the kings until Tar Elendil gave it, not to his son, Tarman Eldor, but to his daughter Silmarian, who was not able to succeed him.

[Alan Sisto]

That's right.

[Don Marshall]

And then she gave it to her son Valandil, who was the first Lord of the Andunie. And it stayed in that line of the Lords of Andunie all the way to Elendil, who took it with him when the faithful escaped the downfall in Numenor, like we talked about last week.

[Alan Sisto]

That's right. And it then went to each of the kings of Arnor, then the kings of Arthedain, until this moment in the text. Now, later, it gets ransomed by the Rangers and it ends up being kept at Rivendell, where it remains until Elrond gives it to Aragorn in a little more than a thousand years from now when he tells him his real name and his lineage. Now, Aragorn gave the ring to Arwen as a token of their betrothal, and that is the last we hear of it. I know I mentioned when he was wearing it at his, you know, at his coronation. There's nothing that says that he did. He actually might not have. He gave it to her as a token of their betrothal. That literally is the last time it appears in the text. Presumably, she either took it with her to her grave at Karan Amroth, or, I like to think more likely gave it to her son Eldarion, where it remained an heirloom of the reunited kingdom.

[Don Marshall]

I really like that. Okay, the brief sidebar page and a half of notes is done. We get back into the text and why Arvedui definitely should have listened to the loss of. We're not told whether it was, you know, happenstance or whether their foresight was accurate, but the weather turned bad as soon as they tried to head out.

[Alan Sisto]

That's right before the ship could even exit the bay and reach the open ocean. A strong north wind comes, driving heavy snow, driving the ship back onto the ice and then piling ice on top of it. So we're talking like a freezing rain. You know, the kind of, you know, it's. It's just the right temperature to turn the snow into ice, and now it's just crushing the ship.

[Don Marshall]

Yeah, definitely feels like a heavy weight kind of snow. No matter how good the ship is or how good Cirdan and the mariners are, no one's surviving this. The hull breaks, the ship sinks, taking Arvedui and his men along with Cirdan's mariners, to their death.

[Alan Sisto]

Now, the text tells us that this is how Arved we last king perished. And, well, that really makes me want to do some more nerdery. We're going to save that for two weeks from now when we also see Malbeth's prophecy about our Vedwe.

[Don Marshall]

Oh, good old Malbeth. It's also mentioned here that the Palantiri were lost as well. Those would be the stones of Annuminas and Amon Sul, the latter the one that was taken from Aman Sul to Fornost before Aman Sul was captured. And Destroyed by the witch King in 1409.

[Alan Sisto]

Right, we talked about that one earlier. Now, the Annumitous stone would have been brought to Fornost whenever it was that the capital of Arnor relocated to to Fornost. That was actually before the split, but we don't know precisely when the capital was moved. Now, with both of those Palantiri in Fornost, Arvedwi took them with him when he fled at the Witch King's advance.

[Don Marshall]

That leaves only the stone of the tower at Emen Baraid, the tower hills that looks out over the Gulf of Lune. The footnote to this text tells us that though we never knew it, it remained there until Kirdan put it aboard Elrond's ship ship when he left.

[Alan Sisto]

Now we're also told that it wouldn't have been useful in Middle Earth anyway. We read that it was unlike the others and not in accord with them. It looked only to the sea. Elendil set it there so that he could look back with straight sight and see Eressea in the vanished West. But the bent seas below covered Numenor forever. And then we get the last statement about this incident, explaining that the news of this was learned from the Snowman of Foreshell much later. I have to say that probably happened around the time that the Ring of Barahir was ransomed from them. Yeah.

[Don Marshall]

And finally we get to the paragraph about our dear old Hobbit friends of the Shire. They managed to survive this whole conflict even though many of them basically had to hide.

[Alan Sisto]

Yeah.

[Don Marshall]

This is also where we get the dubious claim that they sent a unit of archers to help out Arvedui. We read more in the prologue to the last battle at Fornost with the Witch Lord of Angmar, they sent some bowmen to the aid of the king King, or so they maintained. Though no tales of men record it, so they probably just didn't see them.

[Alan Sisto]

But where are the archers? Down here? Yeah. Or they didn't make it. Or the archers are like, you know, I'm not going back. Are you going back? Because I don't want to. I don't want to go die. What about you? No, let's go like farm someplace. Yeah, Yeah.

[Don Marshall]

I love it.

[Alan Sisto]

Yeah. So after that, since the hobbits didn't have a king anymore, they throve under self rule with a Thane to take that nominal leadership role. But many still looked for the return of the king. And I've got a dozen copies on my shelf. Just ask.

[Don Marshall]

Thank you so much, Alan. I'll take Four, eventually, even that passed into nothing more than saying, when the king comes back. So.

[Alan Sisto]

That's right. When the king comes back is, you know, when pigs fly, right? I mean, it took on that sort of proverbial never going to happen sort of moment. Moment, you know? Well, when the king comes back, we'll take care of that. That means it'll probably never get done. And it does remind me a bit of the stewards of Gondor and their oath to hold rod and rule in the name of the king until he shall return and how that just became pro forma. Just meaningless words after a while, you know, there was no expectation that the king would ever come back.

[Don Marshall]

It's never going to happen. It's never going to happen. Spoilers.

[Alan Sisto]

It does.

[Don Marshall]

It does. It does. That's. That's the whole book. In the last line that we did not read, we are told that the first Thane of the Shire was Bucca and that he became Thane in 1979. That is five years after the fall of Arthedain.

[Alan Sisto]

That's right.

[Don Marshall]

And with that, Alan, do we have one final section to read today?

[Alan Sisto]

We do. We do. After our Vedwi, the North Kingdom ended for the Dunedain were now few and all the peoples of Eriador diminished. Yet the line of the kings was continued by the chieftains of the Dunedain of whom Aronarth, son of Arvedui, was the first. Arahael. His son was fostered in Rivendell and so were all the sons of the chieftains after him. And there also were kept the heirlooms of their house, the Ring of Barahir, the shards of Narsil, the Star of Elendil and the Scepter of Annuminas. When the kingdom ended, the Dunedain passed into the shadows and became a secret and wandering people. And their deeds and labors were seldom sung or recorded. Little now is remembered of them since Elrond departed. Although even before the watchful peace ended evil things again began to attack Eriador or to invade it secretly. The chieftains, for the most part, lived out their long lives. Aragorn I, it is said, was slain by wolves which ever after remained a peril in Eriador and are not yet ended. In the days of Arahad I, the orcs who had as later appeared, long been secretly occupying strongholds in the misty Mountains so as to bar all the passes into Eriador suddenly revealed themselves. In 2509, Celebrian, wife of Elrond, was journeying to Lorien when she was waylaid in the Redhorn Pass and her escort being scattered by the sudden assault of the orcs, she was seized and carried off. She was pursued and rescued by Elladan and Elrohir, but not before she had suffered torment and had received a poisoned wound. She was brought back to Imladris, and though healed in body by Elrond, lost all delight in Middle Earth. And the next year went to the havens and passed over sea. And later, in the days of Arasuil, orcs multiplying again in the Misty Mountains began to ravage the lands. And the Dunedain and the sons of Elrond fought with them. It was at this time that a large band came so far west as to enter the Shire and were driven off by Bandobras church. There were 15 chieftains before the 16th and last was born Aragorn II, who became again king of both Gondor and Arnor. Our king we call him. And when he comes north to his house in Annumanus restored and stays for a while by Lake Evendim, then everyone in the Shire is glad. But he does not enter this land and binds himself by the law that he has made that none of the big people shall pass its borders. But he rides often with many fair people to the great bridge and there he welcomes his friends and any others who wish to see him. And some ride away with him and stay in his house as long as they have a mind. Thane Peregrine has been there many times. And so has Master Samwise the mayor. His daughter, Eleanor the Fair is one of the maids of Queen Evenstar. It was the pride and wonder of the northern line that though their power departed and their people people dwindled through all the many generations. The succession was unbroken from father to son. Also, though the length of lives of the Dunedain grew ever less in Middle Earth after the ending of their kings. The waning was swifter in Gondor and many of the chieftains of the north still lived to twice the age of Men and far beyond the days of even the oldest amongst us. Aragorn indeed lived to be 210 years old, longer than any of his line since King Arvagil. But in Aragorn Alessar, the dignity of the kings of old was renewed.

[Don Marshall]

And with the death of Arvedui, the remnants of the kingdom of Arnor end. Remember Last king.

[Alan Sisto]

Kind of what it means. Yep. Yep.

[Don Marshall]

The Dunedain. These are the Men of the West. The people that escaped the downfall of Numenor are very few that's right.

[Alan Sisto]

Now, we just read earlier that the Dunedain that remained in Rudaur were slain or fled west in 1409. That was when those remaining in Cardalan held out in the Barrow Downs or Old Forest. A little over 200 years later, around 1636, when the plague hit, we read at this time an end came of the Dunedain of Cardalan. So the ones in Arthedain were almost all that remained.

[Don Marshall]

But not quite all of them died after all. The line was continued in the line of chieftains starting with Aranarth, the son of Arvedui, and starting with his son Arahael. All of the chieftains were fostered in Rivendell by Elrond. I love that kind of love this part.

[Alan Sisto]

Yeah, this.

[Don Marshall]

Daddy, Elrond's taking care of his. His brother's great, great, great, great, great, great, great. Yeah, great.

[Alan Sisto]

To the 17th, 27th power or something. Yeah.

[Don Marshall]

Grandkids.

[Alan Sisto]

Uncle Elrond. Good old Uncle Elrond watching his nephews also in Rivendell with those foster chieftains, the heirlooms. Now, we've talked about the Ring of Bara here earlier, but let's chat a bit about these others. There's the shards of Narsa, now in the Council of Elrond. The Lord of Rivendell is telling about when he was the herald of Gil Galad and marched with his host. I was at the Battle of Dagorlad before the Black Gate of Mordor where we had the mastery for the Spear of Gil Galad and the sword of Elendil. Aeglos and Narsil none could withstand. I beheld the last combat on the slopes of Orodruin where Gil Galad died and Elendil fell and Narsil broke beneath him. But Sauron himself was overthrown own. And Isildur cut the ring from his hand with the hilt shard of his father's sword and took it for his own.

[Don Marshall]

Now later he mentions that it's really no surprise the news of the destiny of the One Ring was lost to Gondor. After all, only three men survived the Gladden fields. And also Elrond adds, one of these was Octar, the Esquire of Isildur, who bore the shards of the sword of Elendil. And he brought them to Valandil, the heir of Isildur who being but a child, had remained here in Rivendell. But Narsil was broken and its light extinguished. And it has not yet been forged again.

[Alan Sisto]

Spoilers. It will be. Now we also read besides the shards of Narsil that the star of Elendil is kept in Rivendell. Well, that is another name for the Elendilmir and boy, is there a backstory there. And we're really still just gonna kind of go over it fairly quickly. This was of course, the second Elendil Mir. So let's talk about the first one first. It's a star shaped white gem set on a fillet of mithril. We're going to name somebody again that we've already mentioned. It dated back to the very early years of Numenor and belonged first to Silmarion, who we mentioned earlier as being a holder of the Ring of Barahir. She passed it along with the other heirlooms of the house down the line.

[Don Marshall]

Yeah, and because the scepter was a symbol of royalty in Numenor, the same was true in Arnor, which meant they didn't wear a crown per se, but instead wore the Elendilmir. This original Elendilmir was being worn by Isildur when he died. In fact, though he at first was invisible because of the ring, the bright light of the Elendilmir is said to have blazed forth red and wrathful as a burning star. And since Elendilmir was lost with Isildur, the second version was made by Elrond Smiths and it became the royal symbol of the North Kingdom along with the Scepter of Annuminas, which is next on our list.

[Alan Sisto]

That's right. Now the Elendil Mir stayed in this line. It was worn by Aragorn on the Battle of the Pelennor Fields and at his coronation. And think about it. This is the one made by Elrond Smiths after Isildur's death. So it's already 3,000 years old. So it's already, you know, a piece of incredible ancientry. But do you want to know what they found in Orthanc when Aragorn ordered its restoration? Let's read. At last. Behind a hidden door that they could not have found or opened, had not Elessar had the aid of Gimli the Dwarf, a steel closet was revealed. Maybe it had been intended to receive the ring, but it was almost bare. In a casket on a high shelf, two things were laid. One was a small case of gold attached to a fine chain. It was empty and bore no letter or token. But beyond all doubt, it had once borne the ring about Isildur's neck. Next to it lay a treasure without price, long mourned as lost forever. The Elendilmir itself, the White Star of Elvish crystal upon a fillet of mithril that had descended from Silmarien to Elendil and had been taken by him as the token of royalty in the North Kingdom.

[Don Marshall]

And for an even longer sidebar on the Elendilmir, you can go to episode 324 from last season. And that is where Alan and Sarah covered that part of the chapter, the Steward and the King, and spent quite a bit of time on it, if I remember correctly.

[Alan Sisto]

Indeed. Now, the scepter of a Numinous was like the Scepter of Numenor, the symbol of royalty rather than a crown. Now, the scepter of Numenor would have gone with our Pharazon and is still stuck in the caves of the forgotten. Spoilers, I guess.

[Don Marshall]

Yeah, a little bit of spoilers. The Scepter of Annuminas is, according to the footnotes for this passage, the silver rod of the Lords of Andunie and is now perhaps the most ancient work of men's hands preserved in Middle Earth. It was already more than 5,000 years old when Elrond surrendered it to Aragorn.

[Alan Sisto]

My goodness, it's almost as old as the Ring of Barahir. Yeah, it's pretty impressive stuff, actually. Not really. I just realized it's like 7,000 years old is the Ring of Bara here, but still pretty impressive for something made by men. Now, even with the chieftains raised in Rivendell and the retention of the heirlooms of their house, the Dunedain are said to have become a secret and wandering people. The Rangers doing good, but nearly invisibly not having their deeds sung. I thought that was very interesting.

[Don Marshall]

Yeah, it's a little bit of a meta story. The narrator here is explaining that Elrond's passing into the West. Little is remembered of them.

[Alan Sisto]

So, yeah, so I mean, in other words, Elrond is the only one who really can talk about these chieftains and talk about the Rangers and what they've done because their stories aren't sung right. There's no other source of information. Elrond knew them, of course, because he. He'd fostered all of them in Rivendell. But now that he's gone, who's going to tell their story?

[Don Marshall]

I. Who knows? Who knows? Probably Frodo in the Red Book and Samwise Gamgee and all of these people.

[Alan Sisto]

Well, that's why we're. That's why we're reading the appendices, so we can read their story.

[Don Marshall]

Yes, that's why we are here. All right, then we learn that typically they lived out their long life. Remember Numenorean blood and all that, Right, Exactly.

[Alan Sisto]

So they mostly, you know, they didn't die in battle all the time. I mean, some of them did, but for the most part, they lived out their lives. But in the middle of this paragraph about the chieftains and the Rangers, we get a glimpse of a story we don't really get details of anywhere else. And that's Celebrian's story. The wife of Elrond.

[Don Marshall]

Yeah. Orcs have been building up their numbers and building strongholds all over the Misty Mountains in order to block passage into Eriador from the east. The text tells us they suddenly revealed themselves, so that when Celebrian, the daughter of Celeborn and Galadriel, was on her way to visit her folks in Lorien, she was attacked.

[Alan Sisto]

That's right. So her escort was scattered and she was taken away by the Orcs. Her sons Elladan and Elrohir pursued and did eventually rescue her, but not. Not until after she'd been tortured and poisoned.

[Don Marshall]

And we get a brief mention of this in many meetings when Frodo sees Arwen, who'd just come back from Lorien while her brothers were away. But her brothers Elladan and Elrohir were out upon Errantree, for they rode often far afield with the Rangers of the north, forgetting never their mother's torment in the dens of Orcs.

[Alan Sisto]

That's right. And even though she is brought back to Rivendell and physically healed, of course, because Elrond is skilled in that, she loses all delight in Middle Earth and ends up sailing back to Valinor the very next year.

[Don Marshall]

Yeah, we also get reference to the. The Orcs going so far west that they entered the Shire having been driven off by Bando Tuke while he was off inventing golf.

[Alan Sisto]

Golf fimble. I love that. How Tolkien sort of makes a little philological joke about the name of a sport that, you know. Yeah, that's cute.

[Don Marshall]

Love it.

[Alan Sisto]

And then, of course, the text brings us to aragorn. Right. The 16th chieftain in this line. I mean, you think about what this line has been through. This was the line that you would trace all the way back to Elros. Yes. It split off the kings of Numenor when Silmarion could not inherit the throne and instead begin the line of the Lords of Andunie. That line went all the way down through Elendil. Who escapes, comes to Middle Earth. You have Isildur, you have eight. What is it? Eight high Kings of Arnor. But then Arnor is split and you have the kings of Arthedain. Then Arthedain is destroyed, and now you have the chieftains of the dunedain. And the 16th chieftain is Aragorn, who eventually becomes king of the reunited realms of Gondor and Arnor, which really were only together kingdoms for what, a year of the Third Age, before Isildur went to the north and left the rule of Gondor to his nephew in the south, to the son of Anarion. Yeah, so, yeah, big, big stuff here. The mention of a restored Annuminus where he and Arwen stay frequently comes up. We talked about that a little bit in the epilogue. And speaking of also things we talked about in the epilogue, the reminder that Aragorn abides by his own law. He follows his own rule on this big people are not to enter the Shire.

[Don Marshall]

Love that. And as we discussed in the two episodes on the epilogue how some of the hobbits have been up to that. Restored Anuminas to stay with King Elessar. This is Pippin, who is Thane at this point, as well as Sam the mayor and his daughter Eleanor.

[Alan Sisto]

That's right. And then we get a part here that isn't in quotes. It's very interesting because, you know, at the beginning of the appendices, we're told that, you know, larger quotes are from these annals. And then there's these. These bits that are clearly by whoever's assembling this in the Red Book of Westmarch. So this is the compiler of the annals and not a quote from one of the original sources. We get the summation. That the northern line takes pride in the fact that the line of Isildur was maintained unbroken for so many generations. That is pretty amazing.

[Don Marshall]

Definitely seems to be a talking point. Yeah. And while their lives were shorter than the lives of the Numenoreans originally, the chieftains were of the line of a Seal Door. And they did have longer lives. Twice the age of men.

[Alan Sisto]

That's right. Twice the age of men. And interestingly, and I don't think I noticed this until I was reading it out loud, the commenter obviously is a Hobbit because he says, live to twice the age of men and far beyond the days of even the oldest among us. So clearly the us is the hobbits and not the men. I just thought it was very interesting. Again, a little sort of digression into the authorship of these.

[Don Marshall]

I like it.

[Alan Sisto]

These pieces.

[Don Marshall]

I like it.

[Alan Sisto]

And I love how Tolkie maintains that fiction all the way through. It's fantastic. Yeah. And then, of course, Aragorn specifically is mentioned as having lived for 210 years. But that was long even for a chieftain or even a king of Arthedime. But the reason for that is simple. The dignity of the kings of old was renewed in him, see? Yep, yep.

[Don Marshall]

All you had to do was have some dignity, Farazan. That's all.

[Alan Sisto]

That's all.

[Don Marshall]

That's all. You'd live longer. Just be.

[Alan Sisto]

Be. Just be dignified. Yeah, be dignified. That's right. In Barlam and Butterbur, the dignity of the barkeeps of old was renewed. Dawn, what does Barwin have for us tonight?

[Don Marshall]

Yes, we've got a question from Haley H. From Texas. She asks, if Arnor had stayed a united kingdom, could they potentially pose a threat to Sauron and Angmar? And what do you believe made them split apart?

[Alan Sisto]

Wow. Okay.

[Don Marshall]

Lots to think about there.

[Alan Sisto]

Lots to think about. Well, we sort of almost dove into it in the discussion. Like, what did cause him to split apart? I've got to imagine that the sons that weren't going to inherit the kingship. Do I have speculation, Don? I struggle with this because I have a real hard time filling in the blanks. I mean, the only thing I can think of is just pure jealousy and the fact that really, because the capital of Arnor was at Fornost, that was where all the power was. Which, though, to me, that then doesn't explain why you'd want to split up the kingdom. Because unless you're going to get Fornost, why bother, right? I'm thinking I'd rather be second in command of a big kingdom than first in command of a shell that doesn't have the Palantiri, that doesn't have the ring of Bar here, that doesn't have the capital of Fornost. But somehow there was something going on, some sort of split between these sons, and it was enough that his father, that their father, I should say, could not resolve it before he died. What do you think it might have been?

[Don Marshall]

Yeah, I. I'm. I'm feeling like the. The jealousy or like the worry from the father is probably the thing that is the most impactful here. I'm definitely feeling like there is a way to sort of look at this and say, oh, well, they split up the kingdom because it got too big, or they were worried about something like that. That's very, you know, know, Tolkien sees the power and knows it needs to be disseminated. But, no, he always goes with, you know, the unification sort of ideal.

[Alan Sisto]

Well, it makes it very clear that this wasn't a decision that was like, oh, here's a good policy decision. It was owing to. Right, right, right. And then that's what triggered the Witch King coming up here is because this is low hanging fruit. So it was a bad idea.

[Don Marshall]

This. This kind of feels like one of those, well, if you like it so much, why don't you just go rule the other place? And then he does, and then it's horrible and everything falls apart after, like a dare after a night at a bar.

[Alan Sisto]

Well, I'd like to think it was something a little more serious than that, but you're right.

[Don Marshall]

Probably a little more serious than that. Sure, sure, sure.

[Alan Sisto]

I'm sure they just had a difference of opinion as to how they should rule, as to what perhaps the threats were. It is possible that they were already geographically divided, that perhaps those areas of Rhudaur and Cardalan that would later become those. Those might have been regions of Arnor that, you know, we're under the. The leadership of these princes to begin with. Right.

[Don Marshall]

Yeah. There, there, there. Feels as though there is some bad blood simmering. Oh, yeah, sort of. Definitely something underneath the surface. Something.

[Alan Sisto]

Why would you usurp your brother and split off the kingdom? Yeah, really, it's a very little advantage, especially those splinter kingdoms. I mean, Rudau and Cardalan don't have any of the power that Arthedain has. Yeah, as can be witnessed by the fact that they fall so much earlier. Even Cardalan, who remains mostly faithful. I mean, Rhudaur obviously is taken over by the evil men from the mountains, from the hill men. Okay, that's bad enough. I kind of wish we knew how that happened. But Cardalan stayed sort of faithful. I mean, even when he goes to say, hey, I'm the last descendant of Isildur and I need to reunify the kingdom. Cardalan doesn't say no. Right. Rudauer opposes that claim. We don't hear what Cardalan says specifically, but they allied with him enough to form that frontier that would protect them against Rudaur. So they're either on board with it, or at least not totally opposed to it. And that's not that many generations after the original split.

[Don Marshall]

Yeah, I'm getting the sense that there's probably a world that exists where if they are united, they can stop Sauron or at the very least hold him back longer.

[Alan Sisto]

Well, that's the thing. Would they be facing off against Sauron, though? I mean, it's a good question. Oh, they're in the North, King Sauron's in Mordor. So let's maybe think about it from that perspective. Of course, the Witch King comes up there because he sees them as weak. So does he go up there if he doesn't see them as weak? Maybe let's assume he does. Because they've got to have some sort of foe, right? Yeah. I mean, united, certainly they're going to be stronger. I think they still need the help of the elves from Lindon and from Rivendell.

[Don Marshall]

I agree.

[Alan Sisto]

From Cirdan. In order to survive against the Witch King's supernatural power. I mean, he's powered by a ring, so he's got more than, you know, any typical evil leader would have. Yeah, I definitely think they could have held out more, held out longer.

[Don Marshall]

Yeah. And then what are the consequences of that? Do we get the Shire? Do we get the Hobbits? If you think we do, I think.

[Alan Sisto]

We still get the Shire. I still think we get the Shire. I mean, it was the king of Arthedain who gave it to them in the first place. And so therefore he would have been the King of Arnor if the realm had stayed united. Right. Because that kingship descended through that line. Right. Cardalan and Rudau were the break off ones. Arthedain is where the line of kings continued. So, yeah, I think we can still get the Shire. But what are the other consequences? What happens when you have, instead of a king of Arthedain saying, I should be King of Gondor, what if he's the King of Arnor? Does Arvedwi's claim carry more weight if he is the King of Arnor and not just the king of a successor realm?

[Don Marshall]

I feel like probably yes, but.

[Alan Sisto]

But also probably no. Yeah.

[Don Marshall]

With Tolkien, there's also a probably no aspect.

[Alan Sisto]

You know, the steward, I can't remember off the top of my head which steward it was, who basically advised them not to accept this claim, to reject this claim. I don't think he's going to change his mind. And I have a feeling, you know, the idea of some king that is all the way up there that you've never met versus the guy who just saved your bacon. Right. The guy who just won the war. You take the guy who's just won the war because he is still descended from kings, he's not in that direct bloodline, but he's related enough that they could accept him on the throne. So I don't think it changes it, even if it does give his claim more weight, more legitimacy. Yeah. I Think they hold off against Angmar? I think they are more successful. The question is, are they ever able to reunite with Gondor? But for Aragorn, right? I mean, the whole idea of the split with Arnor and Gondor wasn't really an official. Like, we don't like you anymore.

[Don Marshall]

You go, yeah, no, it was very much.

[Alan Sisto]

Remember, Gondor was founded separately by Isildur and Anarion because that's where they landed, you know. And Lendil landed in the north and so he formed Arnor. But they were united under Elendil until the Battle of the Last alliance the War of the Last alliance, when he died. And now they're united under Isildur, he's the High King. But he does leave the Kingship of Gondor the leadership of Gondor to his nephew to Aenarion's son when he leaves to take the Ring. And because of all the stuff that happened after that it just never came back together.

[Don Marshall]

It feels like almost a relationship that sort of fizzled out and nobody wants to actually do the breakup.

[Alan Sisto]

And they're like, somebody in Gondor thinks Isildur ghosted them. And he's like, man, I got shot. I just. I died. I'm not ghosting you. I'm dead.

[Don Marshall]

Sorry, I was busy.

[Alan Sisto]

Being shot in the throat? Yeah, yeah, yeah, pretty much. Well, that's exactly what the text tells us happened. The poor guy.

[Don Marshall]

Yeah. I mean, yeah, it's.

[Alan Sisto]

The beacon on his forehead, you know, was a big, giant shining spotlight for the Orcs because the Elendilmir that he was wearing.

[Don Marshall]

Gotta figure that out. Gotta figure that part out.

[Alan Sisto]

Fantastic stuff. I love that whole story. We didn't even touch on this, but can I just tell you, I don't even know if you know this. Yeah, yeah. The creepy part of that, that was that the. The author of the text of that part of the story is saying, you know, they only could have found the Elendilmir. Saruman, that is, could have only found the Elendilmir if he found Isildur's body. Right. If he found the bones. Which leads to the question, what did he do with the bones? And the text suggests that he burned them. That he committed this great evil in desecrating the bones of Isildur because there's nothing. There's no remnant of him. There's. There's no indication he was buried anywhere with honor and that this would have been a really dark evil for Saruman to have committed.

[Don Marshall]

That's so funny you say that because about six months ago I introduced the idea of Isildur's bones playing a part in my Middle Earth.

[Alan Sisto]

Oh, did you? In the role of first ttrpg.

[Don Marshall]

Yeah. So, long story short, my players might have removed Saruman from life.

[Alan Sisto]

Good.

[Don Marshall]

In one way or another. Something else.

[Alan Sisto]

How in the world do they manage that? That's a. That's a milestone.

[Don Marshall]

A lot of critical. A lot of. Of critical successes and a lot of failures. A lot of failures here.

[Alan Sisto]

Yeah.

[Don Marshall]

But Orthanc was theirs to explore, so I basically gave them free reign. And one of the things that they discovered on a critical success search was. Is Seal Door's bones and the chain, because there is that sort of backstory.

[Alan Sisto]

Well, the chain, yeah. They find the chain. Right. Aragorn finds the chain and finds the Elendil mirror. Little hidden doorway. But yeah, the bones were nowhere to be found. And that's, you know. Sorry.

[Don Marshall]

Shame.

[Alan Sisto]

It just makes me think of all those terrible moments, like at the end of Scouring of the Shire, when he suggests that, you know, Wormtongue was awfully hungry.

[Don Marshall]

Oh, I hate that part. Hate that part. No, no, no. Don't want it. Don't want it. Don't think about it.

[Alan Sisto]

Anyway, terrible, disappointing note. That wraps it up for another episode of the Prancing Pony Podcast. But please be sure to come back next week when we look south to Gondor and the heirs of Anarion.

[Don Marshall]

Yeah. Nothing like a little civil war to brighten up this episode as we end on a wonderful note.

[Alan Sisto]

Yeah.

[Don Marshall]

However, we will end on this lovely note because we do want to thank the members of Team ppp, that is Editor Jordan Reynolds, who I don't have to apologize too much this episode because my mispronunciations were few and far between. We've also got Barleyman, Becca Davis, social media manager Casey Hilsey, Event and patreon coordinator Katie McKenna, graphic artist Megan Collins, and website guru Phil Dean.

[Alan Sisto]

Now, please take a minute to check out the Prancing Pony podcast document.com. it's where you're going to find our show notes, outtakes, Prancing Pony ponderings, and our online storefront where you can get PPP merch, including all the really cool episode artwork that Megan's been doing for the last two, almost three seasons now.

[Don Marshall]

You'll also want to visit our library page. The Prancing Pony Podcast is, after all, a podcast about the books. So if you're interested in any of the books that we have mentioned in the show, you will find a link for it in our library. We get a small amount of compensation when you make the purchase and we do thank you for that.

[Alan Sisto]

And we also want to thank our patrons at the Curedance contribution tier. I'll start with Demay in Alaska, Chad in Texas, Lance in New Jersey, Paul in Colorado, Joseph in Michigan, Kathy from North Carolina, Carlos in California, Brian in the uk, Jerry from Washington, Joe in Washington, Irwin from the Netherlands, Ben in Minnesota, Anthony in Texas, Karen in the uk, June in Ireland, Zaksu in Illinois, Sarah in New Jersey, Joshua in Massachusetts, Lucy in Texas, and Keith in Alabama.

[Don Marshall]

There's also Erica in Texas, Carson in Oklahoma, Vivian in California, James in Massachusetts, Ann in Kentucky, Sean in New Jersey, Mason in California, Maureen in Massachusetts, Olivia in London, Robert in Arizona, Nick in Wisconsin, Lewis in South Carolina, Thomas in Germany, Craig in California, Bailey in Texas, Kevin in Massachusetts, Julie in Washington, Bruce in California, and Joe in Maryland. Thank you all very much for your support indeed.

[Alan Sisto]

Thank you.

[Don Marshall]

Also, make sure you do not miss any episodes of the Prancing Pony Podcast. You can subscribe now through Spotify, Apple Podcasts, Amazon Music, or your favorite podcasting app.

[Alan Sisto]

And one last thing. As always, don't forget to send your thoughts, comments, and most of all, your artifacts dating back to the beginning of the line of the Lords of Andunier. I mean, if you're gonna ask, ask big [e-mail] and if you want your.

[Don Marshall]

Voice literally heard, you can send us audio of your questions, visit podinbox.com prancingponypod and record your questions for us. Please be sure though, to still email the questions to Barleyman.

[Alan Sisto]

That's right. Now, even though Barleyman's been a lot more reliable lately, there is still a lot of mail to sort through and we'll try to get to you just as soon as we're able. As always though, this has been far too short a time to spend among such excellent and admirable listeners. Listeners. But until next time, I have been.

[Don Marshall]

Don Marshall, the obscure Lord of the Rings Facts guy. And this has been the man that is going to divide his podcast up into three the man of the West, Alan Sisto how to have fun anytime, anywhere.

[Alan Sisto]

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[Don Marshall]

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[Don Marshall]

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