The Prancing Pony Podcast – Episode 370: "Take Me With U, Legolas"

Release Date: May 4, 2025

1. Introduction

In Episode 370 of The Prancing Pony Podcast, hosts Alan Sisto and Sara Brown delve deep into J.R.R. Tolkien’s intricate legendarium, specifically focusing on the history and culture of Durin’s Folk—the Dwarves. This episode, titled "Take Me With U, Legolas," continues their exploration of Appendix A from The Lord of the Rings, offering listeners a comprehensive analysis filled with insightful discussions and the hosts' characteristic humor.

2. Tolkien Myths and Legends Box Set

[03:40 – 04:20]

Alan introduces the recent release of HarperCollins' Tolkien Myths and Legends box set. Celebrating Christopher Tolkien's 100th birthday, this collection includes translations of significant Middle English texts for the first time in hardcover. The set encompasses:

• Sir Gawain and the Green Knight
• Pearl
• Sir Orfeo
• An Index for the History of Middle Earth

Sara adds, “These are three Middle English texts written in the 14th century. I think a lot of people will know more about Sir Gawain and the Green Knight than Pearl and Sir Orfeo.”

3. Translations of Middle English Texts

[04:20 – 07:01]

The hosts discuss the complexity of translating Middle English poetry. Sara elaborates on Pearl’s intricate structure, noting its "absurdly complex in technical form" (05:29). Alan is impressed by Tolkien’s ability to maintain the original's elaborate rhyme schemes and alliteration in Modern English, remarking, “It's really, really hard, but he just doesn’t want to.”

Notable Quote:

Sara Brown [05:29]: “Pearl is absurdly complex in technical form... the poem is divided into fives, in other words, groups of five stanzas.”

4. Legend of Sigurd and Gudrun

[07:39 – 14:21]

Alan and Sara transition to discussing The Legend of Sigurd and Gudrun, part of the same box set. They highlight Tolkien’s alliterative verse and its inspiration from Norse mythology. Alan shares a sample stanza:

“Then they vowed fast and yielding there each to each in oaths binding bliss.
There was born when Brynhild woke.
Yet fate is strong to find its end.”

Sara reflects on Tolkien’s lecture about "writing into the gaps" of existing myths, appreciating how he expanded upon incomplete stories.

5. Translation of Beowulf

[14:21 – 18:44]

The episode covers Tolkien’s translation of Beowulf, emphasizing that while the translation itself is more literal compared to others, the accompanying commentary is invaluable. Alan praises Tolkien’s deep knowledge:

Alan Sisto [17:08]: “What makes Tolkien's Beowulf an absolute must-read in my mind is the accompanying commentary from Tolkien.”

Sara concurs, highlighting the historical insights Tolkien provides, such as the "feuds of Ingild and the Danes."

6. Durin's Folk and the Dwarven Rings

[20:47 – 35:20]

The core discussion revolves around Durin's Folk, focusing on the history of the Dwarven Rings of Power. They explore the belief that Durin's ring was the first of the seven, and that it was gifted by Elven smiths rather than Sauron. However, Sauron's malice still taints the ring, “since he had aided in the forging of all the seven” (07:01).

Notable Quote:

Sara Brown [07:01]: “It was believed by the dwarves of Durin's folk to be the first of the seven that was forged, and they say that it was given to the king of Khazad Dum Durin III, by the Elven smiths themselves, and not by Sauron.”

They discuss how the rings do not dominate the Dwarves as they do Men, but instead, fuel their greed for gold, leading to internal strife and increased vengeance against those who wrong them.

7. Thorin Oakenshield and the Quest for Erebor

[35:20 – 65:16]

Alan reads excerpts from Appendix A detailing Thorin Oakenshield’s lineage and his quest to reclaim Erebor. They analyze Thorin’s obsession with vengeance, contrasting it with the prosperity his people enjoy in the Iron Hills. Sara notes, “Thorin just longs for something that’s unnecessary. He’s got what he needs, but he’s haunted by a hope he can’t achieve.”

Notable Quote:

Alan Sisto [23:53]: “But then he asks Thrain, are you going to come back with me to work? Work? Basically, you know, as a smith. Or are you going to go begging?”

The conversation touches on Thorin’s meeting with Gandalf, emphasizing how this "chance meeting" indirectly shapes the events leading to The Hobbit and later, The Lord of the Rings.

[67:34 – 71:30]

They discuss the implications of Thorin’s actions on Middle-earth’s broader history, including the prevention of Sauron’s dominance in the North. Alan reflects on the delicate balance of fate and chance:

Sara Brown [68:21]: “He’s been left an heir without hope because he’s following the vengeance quest passed down from his granddad.”

8. Dwarf Women and Demographics

[75:06 – 96:16]

A significant portion of the episode addresses the rare presence of Dwarf women in Tolkien’s works. Sara reads from Appendix A, explaining that Dwarf women are seldom named and constitute about a third of the population. This demographic skew poses challenges for population growth, especially given the Dwarves' slow reproduction rate.

Notable Quote:

Sara Brown [89:56]: “They are the only Dwarf women named in these histories. It is said that their numbers are few, which affects the growth and sustainability of their population.”

Alan humorously attempts calculations to highlight the population crisis resulting from the low number of Dwarf women and their infrequent marriages. They ponder Tolkien’s possible intentions and the implications for Middle-earth’s lore, including the lack of Dwarf women in genealogies.

9. Gimli and Elvish Relations

[96:41 – 113:43]

The discussion shifts to Gimli’s unique relationship with Legolas, unveiling interracial friendships that transcend historical enmities. They explore Gimli’s title, “Elf Friend,” and his reverence for Galadriel. Sara expresses excitement about Gimli’s journey to the Undying Lands, emphasizing the breaking of traditional racial barriers:

Sara Brown [104:50]: “We have heard tell that Legolas took Gimli Gloin's son with him because of their great friendship, greater than any that has been between Elf and Dwarf.”

Alan and Sara appreciate how Gimli's friendship with Legolas symbolizes a new era of cooperation and mutual respect between Elves and Dwarves, a stark contrast to their ancient grudges.

10. Conclusion

In wrapping up, Alan and Sara reflect on the intricate web of relationships and historical events that define Durin's Folk and their place in Middle-earth. They emphasize the enduring impact of Thorin’s quest and Gimli’s diplomatic efforts in fostering Elvish-Dwarven alliances. The hosts tease future episodes, promising deeper dives into Dwarf society and their interactions with other Middle-earth races.

Notable Closing Quote:

Sara Brown [113:43]: “This is a lovely thought. It really is. It's a true reward for tasks well done, a life well lived, and all the sacrifices that are made.”

Key Takeaways

• Tolkien’s Mastery in Translation: The hosts commend Tolkien’s ability to translate complex Middle English texts while preserving their original structures and themes.

• Durin's Folk’s Struggles: The episode highlights the Dwarves’ enduring battle against Sauron’s influence, their internal greed fueled by their Rings, and the cultural challenges posed by their sparse female population.

• Thorin’s Vengeance vs. Prosperity: Thorin Oakenshield embodies the tension between pursuing vengeance and fostering prosperity, a central theme in Dwarven history.

• Breaking Down Racial Barriers: Gimli’s friendship with Legolas signifies a hopeful shift towards unity among Middle-earth’s diverse races.

• Demographic Realities: The discussion on Dwarf women sheds light on the complexities of population dynamics within Tolkien’s world, raising questions about cultural practices and their implications.

Notable Quotes

• Sara Brown [02:22]: “Oh, I wonder if pineapple goes on pizza in Middle Earth. I'm moving on before I have things thrown at me.”

• Sara Brown [07:01]: “It was believed by the dwarves of Durin's folk to be the first of the seven that was forged, and they say that it was given to the king of Khazad Dum Durin III, by the Elven smiths themselves, and not by Sauron.”

• Alan Sisto [17:08]: “What makes Tolkien's Beowulf an absolute must-read in my mind is the accompanying commentary from Tolkien.”

• Alan Sisto [23:53]: “But then he asks Thrain, are you going to come back with me to work? Work? Basically, you know, as a smith. Or are you going to go begging?”

• Sara Brown [89:56]: “They are the only Dwarf women named in these histories. It is said that their numbers are few, which affects the growth and sustainability of their population.”

• Sara Brown [104:50]: “We have heard tell that Legolas took Gimli Gloin's son with him because of their great friendship, greater than any that has been between Elf and Dwarf.”

• Sara Brown [113:43]: “This is a lovely thought. It really is. It's a true reward for tasks well done, a life well lived, and all the sacrifices that are made.”

Looking Forward

In future episodes, Alan and Sara promise to continue unraveling the rich tapestry of Middle-earth’s history, focusing on the Dwarves’ intricate society, their craftsmanship, and their evolving relationships with other races. Listeners can look forward to deep analyses, engaging discussions, and the ever-present humor that makes The Prancing Pony Podcast a beloved staple for Tolkien enthusiasts.

Whether you're a seasoned fan or new to Tolkien's world, Episode 370 offers a treasure trove of insights into the resilient and proud Durin’s Folk. Join Alan and Sara each week as they explore the depths of Middle-earth, one story at a time.