The Prancing Pony Podcast

Episode 385 – I Saw Her Standing There (in Rómenna)

Date: October 12, 2025
Hosts: Alan Sisto & Sara Brown
Special Guest: Andrew Koons (documentary filmmaker, "The Muster at Marquette")

Overview

In this episode, Alan and Sara are joined by filmmaker Andrew Koons to discuss his new documentary The Muster at Marquette, which chronicles Dr. Bill Fliss's Tolkien Fandom Oral History Collection at Marquette University. After this rich interview, Alan and Sara continue their deep-dive read-through of "Aldarion and Erendis" from Unfinished Tales, focusing on the developing estrangement between Aldarion and his father, Meneldur, Aldarion’s growing bond with Erendis, the strains of duty versus personal desire, and how these personal dramas foreshadow the greater tragedy of Númenor. The hosts bring their trademark insight, banter, and pop-culture puns to bear on the legendarium’s most granular royal soap opera.

Segment Breakdown and Key Discussion Points

[04:06] – Interview: Andrew Koons and the Muster at Marquette

• Background & Inspiration:

  • Andrew shares how his love for Tolkien and early exposure to Peter Jackson's LOTR films led to his fascination with behind-the-scenes documentaries and, ultimately, a career in filmmaking.
    • “I was gone from the minute I started reading those books and so soon after the films came out. …I got the extended edition DVD box set and just watched all…behind the scenes content. And that’s really what inspired me to decide that filmmaking…was a career that I wanted to go into.” — Andrew Koons ([05:00])
  • It was his wife who introduced him to Tolkien manuscript exhibitions at Marquette, where he discovered Dr. Bill Fliss’s Fandom Oral History Project.
  • Andrew scheduled his own oral history recording and proposed the documentary — a "real big swing" that led to close collaboration with Dr. Fliss.

• Fandom as Community:

  • Andrew reflects on how fandom offers a vital “third space” for community in an isolating era.
    • “How is fandom helping to fill the gap of those third spaces that are disappearing for a lot [of people]? …That could be interesting.” — Andrew Koons ([09:18])
  • He discusses the importance of updating fandom documentaries (like “Ringers: Lord of the Fans,” 2005) to reflect how things have changed over the past 20 years.

• About The Muster at Marquette:

  • Documentary is available free and permanently at YouTube.com/villagepicturesco
  • Andrew hopes viewers are inspired to contribute their own oral history recordings, emphasizing the significance of preserving fan voices for future generations.
    • “There's a powerful moment in the film where Bill talks about people who have passed on, who now have their voices and their thoughts on Tolkien preserved. That's a really powerful thing.” — Andrew Koons ([11:42])
  • Alan and Sara discuss the historical value of the project, including the emotional power of capturing ordinary fans’ voices.

• Notable Quotes:

  • “Their voices are just as important as Tom Shippey’s and Verlyn Flieger’s and Corey Olsen’s. …And I’m so excited that that exists for the sake of history.” — Alan Sisto ([14:31])

[17:05] – Return to "Aldarion and Erendis" (Text Discussion)

Setting & Main Characters

• Context:
  • Númenor is in its early centuries; Aldarion, prince and Guild of Venturers captain, is increasingly estranged from his father, King Meneldur.
  • Aldarion’s mother, Queen Almarian, continues to support her headstrong son.

The Escalating Father-Son Rift

• Aldarion ceases confiding in his father, focusing instead on shipbuilding and maritime exploration, leading to personal and political estrangement.
  • “Tar Meneldur ever opposed his son, and he set a curb on the felling of trees in Númenor… It came therefore into Aldarion’s mind that he would find timber in Middle-earth…” ([17:50])
• Meneldur’s attempts at restraint (“perforce let matters go”) are characterized as ineffectual.
• Queen Almarian’s unchecked support further complicates the royal dynamic.

Analysis of Estrangement

• Both hosts see a pattern of poor boundary-setting and ineffective leadership from Meneldur.
  • “He puts small obstacles in the way of Aldarion, and all this teaches Aldarion is how to circumvent these small obstacles.” — Sara Brown ([20:43])
• The growing popularity of the Guild makes Aldarion hard to restrain: “They’re like the rock stars of Númenor, aren’t they?” — Sara ([21:49])

Technology, Progress, and Pride

• Aldarion innovates with bigger ships, spurring both technological advancement and resource depletion fears.
  • “He is pushing forward the boundaries of their technology. …He’s working at doing good for Númenor in many ways.” — Alan Sisto ([24:50])
• Meneldur’s environmental restrictions, intended to check his son, push Aldarion to source timber in Middle-earth.
  • The building of Vinyalondë (“New Haven”) at the mouth of the Gwathló sets the stage for later Númenórean colonization and eventual conflict ([27:44]).

[32:29] — The Naming of the King’s Heir and the Arrival of Erendis

• Upon Aldarion’s 100th birthday (~Second Age 800), he is reconciled with Meneldur as he’s proclaimed heir; receives the title "Lord of the Ships and Havens."
• At the celebration Beregar and his daughter Erendis, of the ancient House of Bëor, attend.
  • Erendis: “dark haired and of slender grace, with the clear grey eyes of her kin.” ([38:26])
  • Noted ancestry: descendant of Morwen (mother of Túrin) and Rían (mother of Tuor).

The First Glance

• Erendis is smitten immediately; “for his beauty and splendour of bearing, she had eyes for little else.” ([44:41])
• Aldarion is largely oblivious, focused on the sea, not romance — leading to a discussion of new scholarship suggesting Aldarion’s apparent asexuality/asociality ([47:13]).

Age Gap and Númenórean Aging

• Age differences seem large (Aldarion is 100+, Erendis ~30s), but Númenórean extended youth makes the emotional gap less concerning.

Erendis Dedicates Herself (Without Hope)

• After a fleeting and ambiguous interaction, Erendis’s “heart is turned wholly to Aldarion, though not in hope.” — tragic foreshadowing.
  • She dismisses all other suitors, beginning a pattern of self-denial.

[58:14] — The Disastrous Pattern Deepens

• Each time marriage is urged, Aldarion responds with increasing resistance and retreat to his ships and Guild.
• Meneldur, seeing his gifts (ore, a diamond) and open disinterest in women/family, criticizes his son’s pride and warns against neglecting the famously fickle favor of the Valar.
  • “Our ships are guarded, and other hands guide them than ours… Be not overproud, or the grace may wane.” — Meneldur ([70:00])
• Sara observes: “It is about showing restraint too. In other words, don’t assume that the same protection is going to apply if you do dumb things.” ([71:29])
• The episode repeatedly foreshadows Númenor’s eventual overreach and downfall.
  • “What is the point of our longer lives if we can’t also be like the Elves? What is the point of living here if we can’t go over there? …This is not accepting your place, the limitations that you have on you.” — Alan Sisto ([72:37])

[80:27] — Ceremony, Custom, and Breaking of Traditions

The Bow of Return

• Custom: Women of the captain’s kin set the green bough from the elven tree Oiolairë on the ship’s prow before departure — a tradition symbolizing blessing and Valar favor.
• When Meneldur withholds the blessing and decrees no bough (to signal royal disapproval), Arendis volunteers:
  • “If you will cut the bough from the elven tree, I will bear it to the haven by your leave, for the King has not forbidden it to me.”
• Aldarion is surprised and touched — for the first time, “looked on Erendis with love.”
  • “For the first time, we’re told Aeldarion looked on Arendys with love. Now, talk about a bit of a slow burn. It took him a little while, while. It’s only been 16 years since they met. Yes. This is what we call a slow burn.” — Sara ([92:41])
• Powerful symbolism as Aldarion looks back at Númenor while sailing away — the first crack in his single-minded obsession.

[94:00] — Cold Hearts, Defiance, and Open Rebellion

• Aldarion returns early, bestows gifts (a diamond to Erendis). Meneldur rebukes him for “stringing her along.”
• Father-son relationship fully breaks down: Aldarion openly rebels, leaving with a fleet “in defiance of the king.”
  • Notable: Majority of the Guild follows Aldarion, further destabilizing royal authority.
• Arendis (possibly in secret, or via a surrogate) again provides the green bough — custom persists even as relationships fracture (“this comes from the lady of the Westlands, for so they called Arendis and went away in the dark”).

Moral & Psychological Analysis

• Hosts track Aldarion’s deep deficiencies as a leader: self-absorbed, intolerant of opposition, hungry for adulation, unprepared for kingship.
• Meneldur’s failures mirror those of his son: lack of decisiveness, conflict-avoidance, and ignoring the necessity of clear boundaries.
• Both foreshadow future Númenórean troubles: technological advancement mixed with pride, failure to accept limits, disregard of tradition and duty.
  • “His duty is always higher and never gets less. Her [Erendis’] starts out lower but then has to increase much more dramatically when Ancalimë is born.” — Alan Sisto ([114:43])

Notable Quotes and Moments

• “Cold hearts may not kindle others to give them warmth at their goings and comings.” — Meneldur rebuking Aldarion ([100:30])
• “Life on land was irksome to him, for aboard his ship he was subject to no other will. And the Venturers who accompanied him knew only love and admiration for the great captain.” — on Aldarion’s avoidance of real relationships and duty ([105:21])
• "I love this line in particular. 'Our ships are guarded and other hands guide them than ours.' This isn’t just some sort of passive shield. This is an active protection."
• “I think we’re coming close to an answer to your question about why this story. …There’s so much foreshadowing here for all the things that will eventually bring Númenor down. …Here…I think we really do have the beginnings of the downfall of Númenor. They are…the little seeds of that are right here.” — Sara ([73:22])
• “He wants full autonomy with zero authority or responsibility, and only hero worship from beneath. That’s what he wants.” — Alan ([105:57])
• “We rightly bash Aldarion now…now it’s going to be a while before we bash Erendis. …Her choices are only gonna hurt herself [for now].” — ([115:40])

Timestamps for Important Segments

• [04:06] — Intro and interview with Andrew Koons
• [11:11] — Where to see THE MUSTER AT MARQUETTE and its purpose
• [17:05] — Start of "Aldarion and Erendis" chapter discussion
• [38:26] — Introduction of Erendis and her family
• [47:13] — Analysis of Aldarion’s sexual/aromantic disposition
• [58:14] — Aldarion retreats further, duty vs. desire tension mounts
• [80:27] — The Bow of Return, ceremony and symbolism in Númenor
• [92:41] — Aldarion’s “slow burn” realization of love for Erendis
• [94:00] — Open defiance of the king, the breaking of family and custom
• [111:15] — Mailbag question: “To what extent should personal fulfillment be sacrificed for duty to family, kingdom, or greater good?”
• [114:00+] — Final reflections: Themes of choice, duty, and foreshadowing Númenor’s fate

Tone and Language

The episode is smart but accessible, peppered with Tolkien-lore deep cuts, snark, self-deprecating banter, and “pub chat” informality. The hosts reference everything from K-pop to Hitchhikers Guide, punctuating heady analysis with pop-culture humor and affectionate digs at each other.

E.g.
Sara: “Can you imagine his dating profile? Oh dear.” ([57:20])
Alan: “But he’s ready to mirth. I still want somebody to put that in their dating profile… Tell me how that works out for you.” ([57:24])

Summary: For Listeners Who Missed the Episode

This episode — part documentary interview, part in-depth Tolkien study, and part bantering book club — explores how fandom preserves the history and heart that make Middle-earth meaningful. The central discussion digs into the tragic flaws of Aldarion, his consist refusal of responsibility, and the emotional toll on those who (misguidedly) love him. Meneldur’s parental and royal dilemma echoes down the centuries as a seed of Númenor’s doom, reflected (with some pop-cultural winks) in all too relatable family drama.

Memorable moments include:

• Andrew Koons on Tolkien fandom as enduring community.
• The gradual collapse of tradition and duty in Númenor through small and large acts of selfishness.
• The “slow burn” tragedy of Erendis, letting her life be defined by a fleeting moment and an unworthy prince.
• Host Sara’s insightful parallel between Erendis’ House of Bëor—serious, grave, “moved sooner to pity than to laughter”—and Morwen, mother of Túrin (with all the warning that implies).

Whether you’re seeking Tolkien analysis, gentle humor, or fan community inspiration, this episode weaves them all together, shining a (Quenya-)bright light on the ways Middle-earth’s lore mirrors our own struggles with pride, love, and duty.

For Further Engagement

• Watch The Muster at Marquette on YouTube [villagepicturesco]
• Learn about (or contribute your voice to) the Tolkien Fandom Oral History Collection at Marquette University

Next week: The rift between father and son becomes open rebellion—both in Númenor and “just between the two of us,” as Sara quips. The tale continues!