PDB Situation Report | July 26th, 2025: China Kidnaps American Citizens & Slaughter in Syria

Summary

PDB Situation Report | July 26th, 2025: China Kidnaps American Citizens & Slaughter in Syria

Hosted by Mike Baker, Former CIA Operations Officer at The First TV

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Introduction

In today's episode of The President's Daily Brief (PDB) Situation Report, host Mike Baker delves into two pressing international crises: China's recent escalation of tensions with the United States through the detainment of American citizens, and a brutal campaign against the Druze community in Syria. With expert insights from Stephen Yates of the Heritage Foundation and Gadir Marie, a journalist and former Israeli Knesset member, the episode provides a comprehensive analysis of these complex geopolitical issues.

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1. China's Escalation: Detainment of American Citizens

Overview of the Situation

Mike Baker opens the discussion by highlighting China's provocative actions in detaining two American citizens—a U.S. Commerce Department employee and a Wells Fargo executive. These individuals have been barred from leaving China since mid-April, raising significant concerns about China's intentions and the broader implications for U.S.-China relations.

Key Details:

• Detained Individuals:
  • Commerce Department Employee: Working for the Patent and Trademark Office, detained since mid-April in Chengdu. Chinese authorities seized his passport, cell phone, and personal belongings.
  • Wells Fargo Executive: Position undisclosed, also prevented from exiting China.

Government Response:

• The U.S. State Department is actively monitoring the situation and engaging with Beijing in hopes of a swift resolution. However, skepticism remains regarding China's true motivations.

Expert Analysis with Stephen Yates:

Stephen Yates provides a critical perspective on China's actions, arguing that the detentions are more about exerting pressure or showcasing power rather than any concrete demands.

Notable Quotes:

• Mike Baker [02:57]: "China is escalating its pressure on Washington, imposing exit bans on two Americans... preventing both from leaving the country."
• Stephen Yates [03:08]: "It really doesn't go a long way to good rational sense, and I don't even know what Beijing thinks they get out of it other than the flex."

Discussion Points:

• China’s National Security Law: Passed a few years prior, this law has facilitated increased control over foreign nationals and corporate executives, often leading to unfair detentions.
• Rule of Law in China: Yates underscores the lack of an independent judiciary in China, stating, "The CCP controls every element of government. They make the laws. Those are the rules."
• Impact on Western Businesses: The dual compliance required by Chinese and American laws creates a challenging environment for Western companies operating in China.

Implications for U.S.-China Relations:

• Negotiation Challenges: The current administration's attempt to balance between negotiation and recognizing the need for decoupling with China is tested by such aggressive moves.
• Strategic Misinformation: Yates warns against believing overly positive portrayals by some U.S. allies, emphasizing that many world leaders may misinterpret or underestimate China's true stance.

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2. Massacre of Druze Civilians in Syria

Overview of the Crisis

Shifting focus to the Middle East, Mike Baker reports on a heinous campaign against the Druze community in southern Syria. Over 1,120 civilians have been killed in recent months, with Islamist militias loyal to Syria's interim president, Al Jelani (also known as Al Sharah), spearheading the atrocities.

Key Details:

• Victims: The Druze community, a religious minority, with reports including the death of Hosam Sa, a 35-year-old American citizen from Oklahoma.
• Government Accusations: Islamist government forces are accused of orchestrating mass murders targeting the Druze, marked by dehumanization and desecration.

Israel's Intervention:

• Airstrikes by Israel: On July 16th, Israel conducted airstrikes in response to the massacres, citing a moral obligation to defend the Druze. While these actions received international criticism, they temporarily halted the violence.

Insights with Gadir Marie:

Gadir Marie provides an in-depth perspective on the Druze community and the broader implications of the conflict in Syria.

Notable Quotes:

• Gadir Marie [31:16]: "We are talking about a tiny minority... 1.5 million Druze members. The religion originated 1,000 years ago in Egypt, and we have succeeded in surviving persecutions and massacres."
• Gadir Marie [37:21]: "We have to ... deal with extremism, Islamism, fundamental radical leadership that is trying or seeking to lead."

Discussion Points:

• Druze Community Background: The Druze are a loyalist minority in countries like Israel, Jordan, Lebanon, and Syria, with no territorial or national aspirations, emphasizing their commitment to the countries they reside in.
• Nature of the Conflict: The attacks against the Druze are not merely domestic issues but represent a systematic policy to alter Syria's identity, targeting various non-Muslim minorities.
• Global Implications: The atrocities highlight the failure of international communities to adequately address or prevent such human rights violations, raising alarms for potential spillover effects into nearby regions and beyond.

Israel's Strategic Response:

• Zero Trust Doctrine: Following the October 7th attacks, Israel has adopted a doctrine of zero trust, refusing to rely on international guarantees and taking decisive military actions to protect its interests and allies.
• Public Perception in Israel: While some argue that additional military fronts may complicate peace talks, there is strong support within Israel for proactive measures to prevent the rise of extremist factions.

Future Outlook:

• Potential U.S. Involvement: With over 1,100 Druze civilians killed, including an American citizen, there's a pressing need for the U.S. to reassess its foreign policy towards Syria and collaborate with allies to ensure the protection of vulnerable communities.
• Continued Instability: Both experts agree that the Middle East remains a region fraught with instability, and without significant policy shifts, further conflicts are likely.

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Conclusion

Today's episode of the PDB Situation Report sheds light on two critical international issues: China's aggressive tactics against American citizens and the devastating impact of extremist militias on the Druze community in Syria. With expert analyses from Stephen Yates and Gadir Marie, the episode underscores the complexities of U.S.-China relations and the ongoing challenges in the Middle East. As these situations evolve, the importance of informed policy decisions and international cooperation becomes increasingly evident to address and mitigate these global threats effectively.

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Transcript

[Stephen Yates]

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[Mike Baker]

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[Mike Baker]

Welcome to the PDB Situation report. I'm Mike Baker, your eyes and ears on the world stage. All right, let's get briefed. First up, China is escalating tensions with Washington. Oh, really? By slapping travel bans on a U.S. commerce Department employee and a Wells Fargo executive, both of them US Citizens. Barring them from leaving China. We'll break down what's happening and what's behind these provocative moves with Stephen Yates from the Heritage Foundation. Later in the show, there's a slaughter in Syria. Government forces under the nation's interim president, Al Jelani, or AKA Al Sharah, as he likes to call himself these days, have been accused of carrying out mass murder targeting that nation's Druze population. Israeli Druze politician and journalist Ghadir Marie joins us with her insights on the atrocities. But first, today's PDB Spotlight. China is escalating its pressure on Washington, imposing exit bans on Two Americans, a U.S. commerce Department employee and a Wells Fargo banker, preventing both from leaving the country, According to a State Department spokesperson. The Commerce employee, a US Citizen working for the Patent and Trademark Office, has been detained since mid April. Chinese authorities seized his passport, his cell phone and personal belongings during a visit to the city of Chengdu. US Officials say they're closely monitoring the situation. Well, that's nice. And have engaged with Beijing in hopes of a swift resolution while he's been detained since mid April. Okay, but is this a warning shot from China or a sign of something bigger? Joining me now is friend of the show Stephen Yates, senior research fellow for China and national security policy at the Heritage Foundation. He served in the White House as deputy assistant to the vice president for national security, and he's a very good friend of the show. Steve, thanks very much for coming back on THE SITUATION report.

[Stephen Yates]

Always a pleasure. Thank you.

[Mike Baker]

Well, all right. Look at that. Always a pleasure. That's a very nice thing to say I appreciate that you may think differently after I ask a few questions. So let's start with the exit bans on the US Citizens. Talk to me about that, what it means, Are they sending a message? What's going on here?

[Stephen Yates]

Well, this is something that's happened repeatedly over the years. It has been a more prominent feature since China a few years ago passed a national security law. And that national security law hit on things like their Chinese sovereignty over data that was in their country, which might include international firms, corporate information. It also held out the question whether corporate executives would be free to leave if there were, say, some government questions about who they were talking to or what they were up to that the Beijing decided they needed answers to before they went. So we've had a few different executives who've been held up. In this case recently, though we had a US Government official that was among those that was held up for a time. And really, it doesn't make good rational sense. And I don't even know what Beijing thinks they get out of it, other than the flex, because the Trump administration has made very clear from the President onward that they're trying to negotiate with China, that while there's been a lot of talk about decoupling, some of which coming from people like me, the Trump administration is looking for a balanced position in between. And the president goes on at length about how he's good friends with Xi Jinping and that things are going great with China, some of which I think is sort of trying to shape mood music. I don't believe the President can possibly think things are excellent. And. But at the same time, if you got all of that in your Beijing, why peeing the Cheerios over something like this? And that's. That's all this is. This is 100% negative.

[Mike Baker]

The Chinese Foreign Ministry is right now trying to translate pee in the Cheerios. Does anybody, I mean, any, you know, are there any world leaders that actually have a good relationship with Xi Jinping? Is that, is that a possibility?

[Stephen Yates]

Well, I think there are several leaders who think they do. And that is a problem when they think that, but it's not real. Some of them are supposed to be US Allies. I mean, I remember the leader of France saying really tough things about how the US doesn't take the threat from Russia seriously enough and then went and did a really white glove dance with Xi Jinping in China. And so the French leaders seem to be misguided and imagining he had a great relationship. Some of them are our adversaries, are not our friends. I Mean, Putin thinks he's got a great relationship with Xi Jinping. I doubt deeply, based on history and decades of development, that that is actually something that will pay off in a time of crisis. That's transactional right now with Russia's invasion of Ukraine. But over time, Xi Jinping and the leadership he's got will take advantage of anybody. And so I just think that it's, it's delusional for people to think they have that. I don't think it's delusional to talk that way if what you're trying to do is to talk someone into negotiations or come to a table for a meeting. And that's sort of tactical versus do you really believe it?

[Mike Baker]

Yeah, there's always a sort of that window dressing that goes on around any, you know, foreign relationship or diplomatic effort. So I, I, I take your point there. The, the, the Chinese regime has said that, you know, the Wells Fargo banker, a US Citizen that they're holding, have, have issued the travel ban on is part of, without giving details, part of a criminal investigation. They haven't given a reason for the U.S. commerce employee being being held. Talk to me about, from a Western perspective, how would you describe the rule of law in China? Yeah, well, it is.

[Stephen Yates]

The CCP controls every element of government. They make the laws. Those are the rules.

[Mike Baker]

You must follow them.

[Stephen Yates]

It is not really open to interpretation by anyone but them. So it can mean whatever they want it to mean. Whenever they decide they want to exercise some influence or coercion, what is often very conspicuous in These cases, not 100%, but too often they do this to people who are ethnically Chinese, so they're a US Citizen, but the message they convey is you owe an allegiance to your ethnic motherland more than anywhere else. You may claim to be a citizen and you will follow our rules. And then, oddly, they try to put a European ideology, communism and socialism as the ultimate power on top of this ethnostate that they're trying to define and control. So there's more than a little bit of racism in this that doesn't really get much of the focus of the world that wants to find every sin in Western civilization. And here's a giant mote in the eye of Beijing as they do this. But that's one of the things that's in there. But it really also goes back to this National Security law where they'll accuse people who in the financial industry are doing normal due diligence as trying to access information that is air quotes, a state secret, and that is fundamentally the clash of our economic civilizations right now.

[Mike Baker]

Yeah, it's, it's really interesting. I, look, I mean I've got a company that does, you know, a variety of information gathering exercises around the world. Due diligence in particular investigations, strategic intelligence gathering. But on the due diligence side, you're absolutely right. China is a, is a fascinating environment. It's a very difficult environment for Western companies to do just basic due diligence. Right. Because the Chinese regime, as you pointed out, considers everything to be a state secret. So just trying to understand the fundamentals of a company that a Western business may be interested in investing in is, is an extremely difficult process and, and also a potentially dangerous one from, from, from a Western perspective when you're trying to just gather basic background information on the performance of a company. So it is fascinating the, the point you make about the, you know, going after the, the Chinese Americans and not considering that there's they, they always go with the primacy of the Chinese ethnic background. Right. So they, they don't consider the U.S. citizenship or the other, you know, secondary citizenship. That is also a, a hallmark of their espionage efforts. Right. They, they have a long history of targeting first or second or third generation Chinese and trying to, to play off of that, you know, supposed loyalty to the, to the homeland. But what's the. Yeah, I, I suppose what's the, I guess the question is what's the business environment like? You know, if you're a Western company, talk to me about, about that. Because you would imagine that the Chinese regime interested in growth, you would think, right, this would be a normal Western perspective, interested in growth would be more welcoming, would be more encouraging to Western investment. But talk to me about where we stand with that so far.

[Stephen Yates]

Well, systematically, there is a lot in China economically that is more grassroots. It's not central government led, the placement of a party official inside of companies that is national and comprehensive, but a lot of decisions about what to manufacture, who to partner with and all of that that could be really locally or provincially driven in the provinces that are equivalents of US States and wouldn't be comprehensive, but doing business, say as an American. But otherwise in China, you're in the.

[Mike Baker]

Middle of a vice grip.

[Stephen Yates]

One side of it is this national security law and everything's a state secret and sort of protected. And the other is you have to maintain compliance with American law too. So say you're in the fabric business and you want to know who you're hiring for labor, you want to know who your suppliers are you want to know if there are maybe potentially corrupt officials, local or otherwise, in that mix. You need that information. But you also have to answer to US Authorities, too, whether you're violating American law on sourcing of your material from slave labor in Xinjiang. And a lot of fabric that has gone into a lot of American consumer goods and global consumer goods is alleged to be tied to that genocide and that slave labor supply chain. So if you're, if you're just trying to do normal business and you're out there in the world, you've got to be compliant with both of these systems at once. And frankly, I think the Chinese make that harder than the Americans do. But Americans could be good at regulation, too.

[Mike Baker]

Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Particularly if you're in California. Steve, we've got a lot more to talk about, but if you could stick around, we've got to take a quick break and then we'll be back with Steve Yates from the Heritage foundation right here on the Situation report. Stick around. Hey, Mike Baker here. I want to take just a few moments of your time to talk about your online security because that is critically important. Look right now, and you probably noticed the headlines are chock full of stories about data breaches and also regulatory rollbacks. Now, frankly, all those things can make us more vulnerable. But here's the thing. There is something you can do about it. Let me tell you about a great business. It's called DeleteMe. Delete Me is here to make it easy, quick and safe to remove your personal data online. DeleteMe constantly monitors and removes your personal information from data broker sites. They send you regular reports so you know exactly what they found and what's been deleted. Take control of your data and keep your private life private by signing up for Delete me. And now, PDB listeners can get a special discount. You can get 20% off your Delete Me plan when you go to JoinDeleteMe.combrief and use the promo code brief at checkout. Now, the only way again to get that 20% discount is to go to join deleteme.combrief and enter code brief at checkout again. One more time, join deleteme.combrief code brief. Living with schizophrenia isn't easy, especially when.

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[Mike Baker]

Welcome back to the PDB Situation report. Joining me once again is Steve Yates of the Heritage Foundation. Steve, thanks very much for sticking around. We've been talking China, all things China. I want to shift gears slightly and look across the water to Taiwan. What's the current situation with Taiwan? It seems to come and go. Right. There's a usually when there's a massive military exercise being conducted by the Chinese military. But where are we right now with Taiwan?

[Stephen Yates]

Well, right now I think the central focus is on some domestic developments in Taiwan. They're in the midst of a recall process. So people from the U.S. state of California are familiar with recalls, but in Taiwan, their legislature is closely divided, another familiar situation to us. But it's controlled by the opposition to the president's party. And there are, there are efforts to pull back, I think about a dozen of the Nationalist Party candidates. Now when recalled, they would be vacating their seats temporarily. That would change the balance of power. The president's party would be in the majority, but there would be supplemental elections that would determine whether that majority for the Democratic Progressive Party of the president endures or whether the kmt, the Nationalist Party, claws back enough of those seats to hold onto their their majority. That's a little bit down in the weeds to a lot of people, but a lot's at stake. We're negotiating a major, big, beautiful trade deal. I assume something is going to get concluded with Taiwan at some point before too long. They invest a huge amount in America and announced a lot in the AI supply chain. Now they also offer to purchase an enormous amount of defense articles. But if the president's executive branch offers to make those agreements, if the KMT or opposition controls the legislature, that's hard for him to deliver. And so the outcome of this recall election season that should go about a month, has a lot hanging in the balance. China has been relatively quiet during this period of uncertainty that will not last. And a lot is hinging on Does President Trump go to China in October before going to the Apex summit in Korea? And as you know, Mike, when presidents kick into gear about they're going to go to China, a lot of people say, oh, please, keep everything else quiet while we try to spin the China for a month or two. So that's kind of the rumbling that's going on now. We have a temporary pause in the focus on the military exercises and coercion that hasn't stopped. But this other drama is playing out more now.

[Mike Baker]

To what degree does the Chinese Communist Party influence or metal, however you want to refer to it, in the, in the Taiwanese politics, like what's happening right now is with the legislature. How much influence does the CCP have inside Taiwan?

[Stephen Yates]

They have significant influence by way of, in some cases, an ownership stake in some of the media platforms. And there are a lot of people that come and go. There are people from China that will marry Taiwanese and be and live in Taiwan. And so there's a substantial, a number of options that the CCP has to try to influence things. Taiwan has a lot of experience with this, so they have among the most sophisticated systems in the world to inoculate against it. It's imperfect, but it's way better than a lot of others. And the CCP doesn't want to be seen doing it too obviously. That's blown back against them. In several election cycles. The Democratic Progressive Party will accuse their opposition of parroting CCP talking points. And so the question of China's influence will be center in this. So the recalled legislators are going to be branded as pro China by their opposition. But it's just a big thick stew that's stirring right now on this. The CCP is definitely an ingredient, but when it comes down to it, this is bare knuckles local politics.

[Mike Baker]

Okay. Do you think Trump will end up visiting in China in October?

[Stephen Yates]

I do. Number one, I think he wants to. I think he has wanted to for some time. I think he's got a policy agenda he wants to talk in person about would command Xi Jinping's time if he's there. And whereas trying to catch him on the phone to have these conversations has proven more difficult than people might have wanted or thought. And when the president goes as far as Asia, they tend to want to knock out a couple of different targets of opportunity. So in a normal world, which we don't live in, he would go to Japan first, then Go to Seoul for the APEC summit and then after having touched down in both of those allied countries, go to Beijing, have the consultations and come back to the US that would be a normal full schedule. But with, with President Trump, we don't get to know the order just yet, but I pretty high confidence he is going to try to go in that time frame.

[Mike Baker]

Okay, and to what degree would that, from the, from a Chinese Communist Party's perspective, to what degree would they play up a Trump visit? I mean, is this the sort of thing that, that would make big news in inside China or the general population? Or, you know, what, what would that dynamic look like?

[Stephen Yates]

Well, as we know, I mean, President Trump is pretty good about powering through news cycles to push the questions he wants asked, push the issues he wants to say. But that's in an adversarial news environment in the West. In China, it's completely controlled by the state and the Communist Party of China. Barack Obama thought that he was going to go to China and the power of his Persona would be overwhelming. And by having a public speech at a university, he would be able to kind of move the arc of history on human rights in China and fundamental freedoms. That was delusional in a deep, deep way.

[Mike Baker]

Are you saying that didn't happen, Steve?

[Stephen Yates]

Unfortunately, now I wish it did, but. But I'm pretty sure if we put our analytical lenses on, there's no evidence that moves the needle, and the needle has sadly moved in the wrong direction since. And so, so Trump will go and he'll be able to push conversation. But the Chinese, number one, will make the point. This is the president coming to them, and that matters in their system and their culture. They, the Chinese culture and the communist culture. And they will control the consensus as they define it, as what was agreed to. And so they can take the President's polite words and basically say, this is America agreeing with us and cooperating with us, and will mysteriously delete the things that are, you need to pay for Covid and you got to stop Fentanyl and whatever else he may say. So that's the risk. I trust the president knows it. I hope that he can play hardball on it, but that's. I would much rather have Xi Jinping have to come to America than our president go there. But I don't think she's gonna do that.

[Mike Baker]

Yeah, there hasn't been any indication that that would be in the works at this point. Look, it's an interesting dynamic, right, because the US President going to China in the current Time, right. With obviously concerns about their, their aggressive buildup in the, in the South China Sea, their attitude towards Taiwan. And then just some recent news, right, over the past 48 hours even of Chinese, you know, further Chinese espionage, right. Efforts to steal valuable proprietary information, their economic espionage that they engage in. Just the release of information related to a, a Chinese American in California, right. Who was downloading and providing information to the CCP about very highly sensitive sensor developments, right. For detecting missile launches and tracking missiles. And so, you know, there is that then the, you know, the breach of Microsoft SharePoint software and targeting the US national nuclear security Administration. So these things are happening, I guess. You know, I am getting to a question, Steve. Don't worry.

[Stephen Yates]

Do you believe.

[Mike Baker]

You know, are you confident that Trump, you know, when he visits, if he visits, you know, will bring something like that up? Look, it's been, the cost is incalculable over the years in terms of their theft of, of intellectual property and research and development. But do you think that's something that he's going to do or do you get the impression that he'll be so focused on trying to get some trade deal finished that we're not going to have those difficult conversations with Xi?

[Stephen Yates]

Yeah, well, I'll put the hopeful Yates on for this one. Just because you'll be better for the United States and the world if these things work. I hope Trump is his normal self, which is a guy that is most, the most comfortable human in the most uncomfortable positions. I mean, just look at when he was with Fed Chair Powell walking through that mega construction complex and, and, and arguing about what are the cost overruns. And he would fire somebody if they had engaged in that kind of behavior. Fire who? Fire the guy that's standing next to him. He was comfortable as a pig in mud talking through that right then. And if, if that kind of Trump goes and talks with Xi about, and by the way, don't mess with Taiwan. We're not going to do anything to be provocative on this, but don't mess with this. If you, if you say, you know, stop screwing around with the, with poisoning our people and trying to steal our stuff, let's, you know, let's make beautiful business together and talk as long as he is his normal self in doing these things. I like having Trump go to China and push the envelope on it. What I, what I fear, not specifically about him, but about every American I've ever seen go to China, is that the Chinese always keep doing all the stuff you mentioned before, during and after any visit. They don't edit. They keep it going. But Westerners think, oh, well, we shouldn't sell arms to Taiwan right now, or we shouldn't allow Taiwan leaders to be able to visit anywhere right now, or we shouldn't be criticizing them on human rights right now. Or we shouldn't be pushing too hard on trade negotiations right now. And maybe we shouldn't press for a conclusion of a big, beautiful trade deal. Maybe it should wait until the president goes and visits. And that basically gives the Chinese two months of oxygen to delay, delay, delay. So that's what I hope doesn't happen. Optimistic Yates says normal Trump goes, but the pessimist who's watched this stuff too long says if they start putting too much on pause, that doesn't set the table the way they think it does.

[Mike Baker]

Yeah, yeah. We do have a track record, I would argue, of, of seemingly not understanding the nature of the Chinese Communist Party and, and their mindset, the way they perceive and, and react and act on, on things. I mean, you know, a case in point. I've cited it before. President Obama going out there and standing next to Xi Jinping and saying, well, he's promised not to engage in any, you know, further cyber shenanigans. And you think, really, you actually believe this? I mean, is that what you think? And then, of course, she doubled today. Yeah. So. Well, listen, Steve, as always, very insightful, always appreciate you coming on to THE SITUATION report. We will definitely be ringing your phone number again. I hope you pick up when we do. All right. Coming up after the break, over 1100 drew civilians killed in a brutal campaign by Islamist forces loyal to Syria's interim president. And this is not just an internal domestic issue. A US Citizen is among the debt. Journalist and former Israeli lawmaker Gadir Marie joins us to break it down. Stay with us. Hey, Mike Baker here. Look, I want to take just a moment of your time to talk about your, your personal finances. I know it's not everybody's favorite talk, but it is critically important to your financial health. Let me ask you a question. What if you could delay your next two mortgage payments? It's an intriguing question, right? Imagine putting those two payments in your pocket and finally getting a little bit of breathing room. Well, it's possible when you call American financing today. Look, if you're feeling stretched by everyday expenses, I'm talking about grocery bills, gas bills, other bills piling up. Well, you're not alone. And many Americans are putting those expenses on credit cards. And for many, there doesn't seem to be a way out. Now American Financing can show you how to use your home's equity to pay off that debt. So call American Financing today before all those payments get what seem to be too unmanageable. Their salary based mortgage consultants are helping homeowners just like you, restructure their loans and consolidate debt, all without upfront fees. And that's very important. And their customers are saving an average of $800 a month. And now I'm not a rocket scientist, but that's something like a $10,000 raise. It's fast, it's simple, and it could save your budget. Call now the number 866-885-1881. Again, that number is 866-885-1881 or just visit American financing.net PDB this episode is.

[Stephen Yates]

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[Mike Baker]

Mama, Papa, mi cuypo crece a un.

[Gadir Marie]

Ridmo alarmte y la ropa que comprena me quedara muy pe quy pronto.

[Mike Baker]

Welcome back to the PDB situation report. Since 13 July, more than 1,120 Druze civilians have been killed in southern Syria in what observers are calling a campaign of extermination. Islamist militias loyal to Syria's interim president Al Zulani or Al Shira, just depending on what name you want to use for him, are accused of carrying out the massacres marked by dehumanization, desecration and the deliberate targeting of a religious minority. Among the dead was 35 year old Hosam Sa, an American citizen from Oklahoma who had returned to care for his ailing father. Now Israel intervened with airstrikes on 16 July, citing a moral obligation to defend the Druze. But of course, Israel drew international criticism, as they tend to do. While a ceasefire brought the violence to an end late last week, it wasn't until the dust settled that the scale of the slaughter really came into focus. Joining us now is Gadir Marie. She's a journalist, a former Knesset member and herself a member of the Druze community. Goodyear, thank you very much for taking the time to join us here on the Situation report.

[Gadir Marie]

Thank you, Mike, for having me.

[Mike Baker]

For the benefit of our viewers, if you could take just a bit of time and give us sort of a top line, a 30,000 foot look at the Druze community. Because I'm not sure that the majority of our viewers are aware of the background here. So if you could just talk about the, the, the nature of the Druze community to some degree, that would be very helpful, I think.

[Gadir Marie]

So we are talking about a tiny minority. The majority are living in the Middle East, 1.5 million Drew's members. The religion was originated 1,000 years ago in Egypt and we experienced persecutions and massacres, but we succeeded to survive. Now the Jewish people are living in four countries in the Middle East. In Israel, Jordan, Lebanon and in Syria. There are so many unique facts that the religion was originated from the Islam. But we separated ourselves. The most important value to know about the Jewish people, that we have no territorial, no national aspiration. It's not written in our religion, Mike, that one day we will have our own country, that we will form our own entity. That is why we are loyal to the country that we were born in. That is why Israeli Ruth are loyal to Israel, Syrian to Syria, Lebanese to Lebanon, and Jordanian to Jordan. Specifically in Israel. We are the loyalist minority living in Israel. We are a successful model of an integration. As a minority. We draft into army, into the IDF in the highest percentage in Israel, which is 82%. It is higher than the number among the Jewish sector. So we are talking about a peaceful minority with no territorial or national aspirations.

[Mike Baker]

Is there cohesion though between the communities that are located in the various countries, in other words? What I mean is. I understand what you're saying here. The loyalties are to the country you were born in. But overall, is there something that binds the Druze community together, whether they're in Syria, whether they're in Jordan, Israel, Lebanon?

[Gadir Marie]

Yes, but it is complicated since we are living in the most complex geopolitical arena. Think about it. Israel does have peace with Jordan. But till December 2024, we had a dictator in Syria called Bashar Al Assad, in which physically, technically you couldn't meet them, you couldn't contact them or talk to them. So we find ourselves as Israeli Druze, as the most influential strong minority, although we are tiny minority, 150,000, less than 2% of the population. But because we live under a democratic state. So we succeed to bring our voices to reach top national position and to influence both domestic policy and also regional policy.

[Mike Baker]

Okay, and how large is the community in Syria.

[Gadir Marie]

So here is the point that what happened in Syria was very symbolic because we are talking about Sueda, which is historically the major location, the symbol of the existence of the Druze in the Middle east. We have there 700,000 Druze people, as we mentioned, peaceful minority, not a threat that is targeted in this unprecedented terror attack. Again and again since December, as we had since we thought we are talking about instability, transition, more that rapidly became a terror attack against or a campaign of terror against every minority. We saw these attacks happening the Alawites in March, we saw the Druze community being attacked in April. We saw that happening against the Christian community last month and now again in July against the Druze. So I understand that you are living under a state that is changing its identity and that we are dealing with extremists. This is the most important lesson that we are learning. I don't see here liberal, sophisticated, educated, open minded leadership. What I see is extremism, Islamism, fundamental radical leadership that is trying or seeking to lead. And for me after seeing this, I don't want to describe or two graphics but I'm sure you saw the barbarism, the brutality like October 7th, as I had as an Israeli Jews. But now it is Julian style with 5 years old children being raped, beheaded, sniped, people burned alive with 1,100 casualties.

[Mike Baker]

How large is that community in Syria, the Jewish community in Syria? You know it's 150,000. You say in Israel. What is the size of the community in Syria?

[Gadir Marie]

700,000. The main majority, the biggest community in the Middle East. And you know it is a community of Sultan Bash Al Atrash, the iconic Syrian ruled leader who led the Syrian Revolution in 1925 against the French. So we are talking about loyal citizens, peaceful minority. And when you see these organized, very well equipped, trained, hundreds of vehicles and fighters heading to Sweden, operating freely, committing this massacre, killing everyone, shaving the beer of the religious Druze leaders and attacking every symbol of heritage of religion. You understand that there is a huge dissonance of what we are hearing from Al Julani. You know, when he's wearing his western suit, when he went to the west, that embraced him very quickly, had him very rapidly. He's buying legitimacy and he see that there is a huge dissonance because what I see is totally different. So we are calling the west first, you know, to believe that this is happening, to hold their horses, to rethink about the foreign policy. How are we going to deal with Syria? How can you trust a person without understanding if he is reliable. If he does have the capability, the ability, the willingness to build a real, pluralistic, equal Syria that would, you know, accept and respect all minorities and not to think that the majority, the Sunni majority, will force other minorities to adopt Islam.

[Mike Baker]

And if not, if I could, I'm sorry for interrupting for this, for the benefit of the, of the viewers. Again, this may sound like a simplistic question, I know, but what is the, what's the primary reason for this, for this conflict? What, what is the, you know, is, is it a religious conflict between the Islamist government now of Val Julani, who now goes by Al Sharah? And you're absolutely correct, the west has embraced him very quickly, I think, out of this sort of this traditional Western hope, right, that things will be different after Assad. And so if they just hope for it enough, maybe it will happen. And, and you're right, he went from, you know, an Al Qaeda member and, and wearing his uniform during the, the overthrow of the government to suddenly he's in a suit and an expensive watch. And, and you know, look at this. We can drop the sanctions. And, and so there, there is this sense of, oh, if we just push this forward quick enough, maybe we can change the trajectory of Syria. But if I get back to that other question. What is the primary reason for the conflict? Why the attacks on the Druze community from this new Islamist government?

[Gadir Marie]

Wow. It's excellent question, Mike, because, you know, I agree with you. Everyone was so enthusiastic after these deadly, bloody years of civil war to see like flourishing Syria's Swiss style. And if, you know, I don't expect an ISIS remnant now in the phase one to build a democracy. But, you know, everyone embraced him very quickly, rapidly and unprecedented, like, let us remove sanctions, like, hey, hold your horses. We are talking about an ISIS remnant and you know, we are in modern era that you can open up and see what he was saying, what he believed in as a man living in a cave fighting every value. I believe me and you and all of our audience cherish. So, yes, hold your horses. And for your question, we are. We are. Our main challenge is to reframe the terminology because the regime immediately said, we don't agree. They don't represent us. They don't symbolize the new regime. We don't control them. We didn't send them. Guess what, for me, regardless, if you do control or not, if you did send them from Damascus or not, if you seek leadership, you must understand that you are responsible if you seek to be the new president. So they are trying to frame it as a minor clashes between Bedouins and Jews. But what we are witnessing, if it happened again and again for Alawites, for Kurds, for Christians, for Druze, for any minority who is not a Muslim. So you understand that you are dealing with a dangerous, systematic policy to change the identity of Syria. And we are trying to convince and to explain to the world that we are not dealing with a domestic issue between Syrians. I really encourage our audience to study the case of Syria, to open maps and simply to hear the authentic voices that we are hearing of fighters who came from Chechnyamar, Mike, from Afghanistan. They are not native, they don't speak Arabic. And what they are chanting Jerusalem is next. And as an israeli post October 7, I do believe my enemies and this is yes, there is a religious factor. There is there is terrible leadership with terrible priorities. And it is much more beyond minor clashes that happened one time since December 24th. And the west and the Middle east and the region must reframe it in that way that we are talking about factions, regardless if Jilani is controlling or not, that are destabilizing the whole arena and reminding ourselves Israel post October 7th is not the same Israel before October 7th.

[Mike Baker]

We're talking about two separate time frames and certainly a different mindset, I believe, when it comes to Israel before and after the 7th of October. And and I want to explore this more after the the break because I think you you've made a really important point, which is they've been trying at least the Islamist government in in Syria, it's been trying to frame this as the actions of criminals and and just militias and the Bedouins against the the Druze. They're trying to frame it in that sense. Reporting came out that the Islamist government sent their forces up there and then and those government forces were supporting the Bedouin militias in this in this action against the Druze community there. And then of course, to your point, it's not just a domestic issue because now Israel has been involved with air strikes and efforts to protect the Druze community. I want to touch on that, Gadir, but if you could stay right where you are. We have to take a quick break and then we'll be back with more from good deer Maria, a former Knesset member, member of the Drew community herself and a journalist here on THE Situation report. Hey, Mike Baker here. Now here's an important fact that you might have missed in your busy day. July, and we are in July is national grilling month, it's true. And tritails beef a Terrific company is here to help you celebrate it the American way. I'm talking about over a fire with real beef raised by real ranchers. Tritails is a fifth generation family run ranch in Texas and they deliver pasture raised grain finished beef with zero shortcuts straight from their ranch to your home. It couldn't be simpler. There is no middlemen. It just goes straight from their ranch to your doorstep. And right now you can get $10 off their 20 pound ground beef bundle plus two free flat iron steaks. 1. All you gotta do is head to tribe.com PDB stock up and fill your freezer. In celebration of National Grilling Month again go to tribe.com PDB today.

[Gadir Marie]

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[Mike Baker]

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[Stephen Yates]

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[Gadir Marie]

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[Mike Baker]

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[Mike Baker]

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[Gadir Marie]

So Israel Post October 7th is implementing the doctrine of zero trust in the way, Mike, we were so disappointed and we don't rely on international guarantees. Do you remember what happened in 2000? We withdrew completely from Lebanon. And what we saw was Hezbollah, a terror militia that became to a terror organization, became to terror enemy and army holding the 8th biggest missile arsenal in the world that were equipped, funded, heavily funded and trained for 23 years till October 23. So we don't want to create another model and simply to wait. Same model we had with Hamas in Gaza. Do you remember we withdrew completely in 2005 from Gaza. What we saw, we saw terrible leadership with terrible priorities who were building Gaza underground instead of investing in human capital. They were growing for 18 years. And I don't have to explain to you that political movements can do much better in Gaza instead of Sinwar and this terrible leadership. So Israel now cannot wait. We understand post October 7th, we do believe our enemies when we hear them chanting Jerusalem is next. And now we need the buffer zone to implement the demilitarization policy. We wouldn't allow them to grow. And then, okay, let us wait and see and deal with them after five or 10 years. We understand first that this is not a domestic issue between Syrians. And it is correct and right from the strategic point of view as the state of Israel not to allow them to threaten our northern border. And it is right from the basic humanitarian moral level as a continuation of the special unique, strong, brave relationship between the Druze and the Jews in Israel to protect also the Druze in the Middle East. So we are talking about strategic motive and the humanitarian motive.

[Mike Baker]

Now the IDF has conducted airstrikes in and around Sweda and also over Damascus. How has that been received inside of Israel by the population?

[Gadir Marie]

So, you know, we are intellectually mature enough to understand that this is the last thing that we need reminding ourselves that we are still in a war. Two days ago our IDF chief Eyal Zamir said that 2025, the war is not ended. Even 2026, probably we will have another round with Iran. We are dealing, Mike, with seven active fronts in the west bank, in Gaza, in Lebanon, in Syria, in Iraq, in Iran, and some would add even the domestic polarization. So the last thing that we need now another front in Syria. But again, through the doctrine of zero trust, we understand that we need to finish the job. Israel is watching. Israel is back as the rising lion. Israel back as this, as the regional superpower that we will not allow any head of octopus slash Iran or any proxy to grow to reach these abilities. And you know, we are not naive. You cannot fight terrorism. You are fighting with brains, with perceptions. And this is the hardest thing to do. But we see that if you, if you invest enough attention, energy and time, you can achieve great damage to these radical fundamental, I even put them leadership. I don't know if there are audience that are listening in quotes because Jelani study in Jelani background. How can you believe him? And you know, Syria is in a crucial point, in a crucial momentum. We need liberal leadership. We don't see, we don't seek to see another destabilizer and having this tantra now playing in a different direction, in the opposite direction that we need it to be.

[Mike Baker]

So when, when Jelani, or as he refers to himself now Al Shira, when he talks about, yes, our new Islamist government in Syria is going to be an inclusive one. We're going to, you know, consider and protect the, all the various groups and minorities that make up the Syrian population. Clearly you're not buying that. But again, I go back to, you know, there's, there's been this sense of, of, of hope. Whether it's misguided, you know, whether it's warranted, you know, that's definitely up for argument. But there's a sense of hope from the west and particularly the US So they've dropped sanctions, they've removed them from, you know, sort of this terrorist organization list and there's talk of cooperation and perhaps a signing of an agreement between the Syrian government and Israel. Where do you think that may be going? I mean, I suspect, I know based on our, our conversation to this point, but I guess I'm, I'm, I'm trying to get a sense of, from your perspective, you know, how do you pragmatically deal with Syria at this point? Because you do. There is that sense. We would like to, to see stability obviously, but you know, are you saying, look, you've got to trust but verify. So as you pointed out earlier, hold your horses. Let's see if there's actual, you know, proof and action that they will follow through on these grand ideas that they've spouted.

[Gadir Marie]

More than that, you don't have to be a political expert. You are a smart journalist. Mike, allow me to ask you, real polity, common sense. When you see this terrorist shaving of the beards of religious man, do you think that this is the positive, promising signal that we have an emergent democracy in the Middle East? When you see them raping 5 years old child, when you see them sniping children, burning hospitals, people who are sick and filming that and then being guided by Damascus, please don't film. You know, what is the terrible challenge we are dealing with smart, charismatic leadership in Damascus. But I understand the Middle East. I was born and raised in the Middle East. I understand the language, the vibe, the nuances. And this is here the challenge that sometimes we see things we believe things we deal with things that the west would deal with it in a delay of couple of years. What we as Druze, what we as Israelis. So I trust my instinct, I trust what I see. You know, we have been taught at Harvard. You see, believe. I do believe my enemies. So now I know that there are maps. We have serious discussions in Jerusalem and also in D.C. i am based in D.C. and when we understand we are putting huge pressure on the new administration to rethink, to reshape its own policy toward the Middle east and towards Syria. Specifically, I see the enthusiasm of the envoy, Tom Barrack of Bring us Peace. We are grateful for that. But we need to study carefully the case. When you see these signs, you cannot say I didn't see as an Israeli last century. We said never again. When we had the Holocaust on October 7th, we were amazed that they succeeded to do that again. And do you know what I learned, Mike? When I saw Sweda, I was amazed to see how they implement the essence of terror. Same anecdotes, same incidents, same barbarism of teenagers who were playing violin, who be killed of a child, that they just killed his father, father in Israel. We had them opening his phone, opening Google Translate to negotiate with the. With the terrorists, not to kill him. So we had same same incident in Syria or women being kidnapped on a motorcycle. We had same visual.

[Mike Baker]

Good. How confident are you in the reporting that ties the Islamist government with the Bedouin militias? That that again the reporting being that that the Syrian government claimed, Islamist government claimed that they were sending forces up there to stop the violence. But then the reporting became no, they're actually on the side of the Bedouin militias that have been engaged in the targeting of the Druze community. How confident are you in that reporting that ties the Islamist government forces to the militias and being involved in these attacks against the Druze community?

[Gadir Marie]

So first of all, we are not dealing with storytelling. I am not here to tell the story. We have the whole accurate reports with data, numbers, facts, all detailed. And you know, we live in the modern era. There are cameras everywhere to document. There are devices with, as you know, I'm an Israeli that can penetrate every place, anytime, anywhere. So we are talking about reports it's not a story that someone told me. And I encourage our audience to study about Hay at Tahrir Sham, which is HTF. These 40,000 fighters who fought with Al Julani to rebuild Syria, who are they? Where they came from, what they believe in? What's the regional aspiration? What is the final destination? You should listen to them. You should understand that we all must care about what's happening in Syria, because tomorrow, maybe the new front would be Israel, maybe it would be Jordan, maybe a direct clashes with Turkey. We are not naive, and we understand that there are regional players invested with superpowers leading the project of Syria. But we are finding ourselves as a tiny minority. You know, this is my main challenge to say, hey, I exist. I am a Jew. I was amazed that it was not an opening item in the main news in the US when you talk about 1100 people who were killed and you need to say, hey, I am a Jews, and you know, I live in D.C. in the American accent, I are a Jew. I am not a Jew. I am a Jew. D R U Z E Please educate yourself, Care about what's happening in the Middle east, because tomorrow morning it may be in your door, in the US in the west or in Europe.

[Mike Baker]

The complexity here, I think it doesn't lend itself there to, you know, a typical news report that you might get on an outlet, a network, you know, where it's two and a half minutes. Oh, there's, because there is so many, there's so many layers here, right? And I think, I, I, I, I'd love to continue this conversation. We're, we're running out of time. But with you based in D.C. obviously, one of the complexities here is this, the, the White House's desire to try to push forward the, the idea of a normalizing relations between Syria and Israel, between the new government in Syria and Israel. And so I think their reaction to the airstrikes that were conducted by the IDF to protect the Druze community in Syria, their reaction was, well, how, how could you do that? Look, you're jeopardizing our peace talks, right? So it's, you've got that complexity, then you've got the complexity of, of the Iranian influence, right? They've lost an ally when Assad, you know, fell, and the current Islamist government in Syria is saying, well, we're no friend of, of Iran. And, and, and so there's, there's a lot of layers here that I think need to be talked about. I will say this, though. We are out of time. Gooder And I very much just remember the sentence, Mike.

[Gadir Marie]

That's the most stable thing in the Middle east is the instability.

[Mike Baker]

Yeah.

[Stephen Yates]

Yes.

[Mike Baker]

Well, well said. Absolutely well said. Listen, good. Dear Marie, journalist, former member of the Knesset, member of the Druze community, thank you very much for taking the time here. I hope when we call you, you'll. You'll agree to come back on.

[Gadir Marie]

Thank you, Mike, for having me.

[Mike Baker]

Well, yeah, there are many layers to this story, and unfortunately, the time that we have doesn't do it justice. So we will indeed have Gadir back on to talk more about this and in particular, where the White House may be trying to take that relationship between Syria and Israel and then the realities on the ground. Well, that's all the time we have for this week's PDB situation report. If you have any questions or comments, maybe you've got a humorous anecdote, maybe you've got a limerick. I don't know, just reach out to me at pdb@thefirst tv.com. you know what we do, right? Every month we take that mail bag that Carl the Mailman drops off at our underground layer, and we choose the best questions and comments, most interesting things, and we smash them all together into what we call an ask me anything episode, where we answer a lot of your questions and address your. Your thoughts and comments, and we produce one of those every month. We've got another one in the hopper, as they say, getting ready to be launched, finally, to listen to the podcast of the show ad free. You can do that, and it's very simple. Just become a premium member of the President's Daily brief by visiting PDP premium.com See? I told you it was simple. I'm Mike Baker, and until next time, you know the drill. Stay informed, stay safe, stay cool.