‘Cape Fear’ Episode 6: The Bowden Backrooms

Summary

The Prestige TV Podcast – ‘Cape Fear’ Episode 6: The Bowden Backrooms

Hosts: Joanna Robinson & Rob Mahoney
Date: July 3, 2026

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Episode Overview

In this lively, theory-packed episode, Joanna Robinson and Rob Mahoney break down the sixth episode (“Possum”) of the series Cape Fear. They deep dive into the show’s swerves into surreal horror, analyze the intricacies of family trauma, discuss standout direction choices, and update their conspiracy board with fresh fan theories. The hosts debate the show’s use of possession and mind control, consider who or what is obsessing the Bowden family, and revel in the episode’s wildest and funniest moments—like that infamous acid trip dinner.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Episode Context & Direction

• Director Match: The episode, written by Brian Evenson and directed by Trey Edward Shults, is recognized for its claustrophobic, dread-filled storytelling, reminiscent of Shults’s earlier films like It Comes at Night ([01:50]).
  • Joanna: “This is a really good match of episode to director.”
  • Rob: “That batten-down-the-hatches dread that looms over really this entire show, but definitely this episode.” ([02:18])

2. Listener Feedback & Theory Watch

• Possession Theory Takes Center Stage: Resounding support from listeners for Rob’s “possession” theory, suggesting supernatural or drug-induced body control is at play in the series.
  • Rob: “My position has shifted slightly, but I’m still firmly in the possession camp.” ([04:46])
  • Discussion of scopolamine (aka “Devil’s Breath”) as a “possession” drug factoring into theories ([05:01]).
  • Joanna on fan engagement: “I have never seen such a unanimous clamoring of Rob was right in my life.” ([04:10])
• AI/Ghost Son Possession Theory Emerges: Rob introduces the theory that Zack is possessed not by Nevaeh, but by Max Cady’s dead son, possibly manifested via the show's ominous “AI Slop.”
  • Rob: “What if Zack is not possessed by Nevaeh but is possessed by AI Slop Son?” ([16:53])
• Debate about product placement: The practicality of Anna driving a Hyundai is questioned relative to her social status ([07:02]).
• Sharp-eyed fan catches: Recognition of actor Paul Calderon’s cameo (the Padrino who dies), previously unnoticed by the hosts ([08:14]).

3. Flashbacks and Character Arcs

• Prison Flashback: The lengthy black-and-white opening flashback explores Max’s indoctrination into a mystical, death-obsessed faith during his incarceration, revealing his violent past and susceptibility to supernatural ideas ([09:01]).
  • Rob on thematic resonance: “Part of the appeal is that you are in touch with the dead… you can channel or access the energy or see your lost loved ones.” ([09:08])
• Max’s Complexity Unveiled: The journey from ambiguous, neighborly menace to outright sociopath, culminating in full-on threats and violence.
  • Rob: “We are past the point of neighborly pleasantries by the end of 6.” ([11:58])

4. The Dinner Acid Trip

• Showcase Sequence: The hosts rave about the centerpiece dinner where the Bowdens are unknowingly dosed with LSD, triggering chaos, comedy, and confession in the family ([37:33–44:10]).
  • Rob: “This whole sequence was spectacular… Who did you think were the real standouts here?” ([37:45])
  • Joanna on Amy Adams: “This is the best she’s been in the entire show.” ([38:27])
  • Discussion of changing aspect ratio as a visual cue for the trip ([39:34]).
    • Joanna: “I missed it. I feel like I was distracted by the wallpaper coming to life.” ([39:45])
  • Memorable Quotes:
    • Anna, drugged out: “Slut got your tongue?” ([40:15])
    • Patrick Wilson (Tom): “Should I show the world my guns?” ([38:57])

5. Family Dysfunction, Narrative Devices & Set Pieces

• Natalie’s Drinking & Teen Impulsivity: Natalie’s descent into alcoholism while tackling college applications is both tragic and darkly funny ([19:58]).
  • Joanna: “There’s nothing like the clink of a bottle to expose a drinking habit.” ([20:15])
• Too Dumb To Live Moments: Natalie getting in a car with Max Cady is flagged as an egregious failure of judgment—albeit understandable due to her age and circumstances ([34:16–35:45]).
  • Joanna: “She’s so dumb for getting in the car with him.”
• Weapons Chekhov’s Arsenal: Discussions about Chekhov’s pepper spray, nail gun, and ultimately featuring a shotgun vs. a drone as symbolic of the show’s flair for mixing menace and dark humor ([41:22]).

6. Symbolism, Backstory & New Mysteries

• Photos & Haunted Past: Max receives taunting photos tied to his trauma—including an abused white dog, mysterious locations, and troubling figures from his past—fomenting speculation about “C.” and connections to Juliet Lewis’s character ([23:12–24:29]).
• Cryptic Family Ties: The possibility that “C.” is Max’s (step/surrogate) sister, fueling further fan theories ([24:06]).
  • Joanna: “We’ll be changing her card on the board to at least C under Juliette Lewis.” ([24:24–24:29])
  • Phone call with an elderly man, possibly Max’s abusive preacher father (speculation on casting: Ron Perlman or Robert De Niro? – [24:44–25:15])
• Visual & Auditory Intrusions: Hidden rooms/tunnels (the “Bowden backrooms”), the ever-present toe, and the mysterious “AI slop” machine drive the gothic, off-kilter atmosphere ([55:35], [61:41]).

7. The Show’s Unique Tonal Range

• Comedy Amid Chaos: The hosts point out that — for all its darkness — this is “the funniest episode of the season to date” ([10:42]), with Javier Bardem’s over-the-top villainy (“vibrating at a frequency in this episode that I don’t think many people in our plane of existence can access” – [33:40]), and cat named Peanut Butter seduced to the dark side by pig ears ([46:27–46:48]).
• Meta Moments & Running Bits: Ongoing jokes about the show's product placement (no free ads!), pet traumas, lava lamps, regional dialects (“possum” vs. “opossum” – [60:03–61:07]), and “macro dosing” LSD.

8. Conspiracy Board Updates (Timestamps throughout from [61:41])

• The running list of suspects, objects, and mysteries is expanded live on-air:
  • RIP Jarto (the sacrificial toe)
  • Bowden Backrooms (secret wall spaces as a metaphor for family secrets)
  • Lila/C./Juliette Lewis card updated to reflect new clues
  • Broken AC, Dead Drone(s), and Macro Dosing all receive board status.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the show’s humor amid horror:
  Rob: “Despite its subject matter, the funniest episode of the season to date.” ([10:42])
• On the centerpiece dinner acid trip:
  Joanna (on Amy Adams): “This is the best she’s been in the entire show.” ([38:27])
  Anna (Amy Adams): “Slut got your tongue?” ([40:15])
  Tom (Patrick Wilson): “Should I show the world my guns?” ([38:57])
• On family dysfunction:
  Joanna: “They really only care about Zach—and even then they’re not good parents.” ([22:35])
• On Javier Bardem as Max:
  Rob: “He is vibrating at a frequency in this episode that I don’t think many people in our plane of existence can access.” ([33:40])
  Joanna: “Martyr in the streets, villain in the sheets.” ([39:13])
• On possession and AI/ghost son theory:
  Rob: “What if Zack is not possessed by Nevaeh but is possessed by AI Slop Son?” ([16:53])
• On practical matters:
  Joanna: “You can’t force a cat.” ([45:57])

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Important Timestamps

| Timestamp | Segment/Discussion | |-------------|--------------------------------------------------------------------------| | 01:25–02:18 | Introduction, director/writer background, and show’s evolving tone | | 04:01–06:19 | Listener mail, “possession” theory, Devil’s Breath | | 09:01–11:58 | Prison flashback, Max’s religious origins, shift from ambiguity to menace| | 16:00–18:33 | Rob’s alternate “AI ghost son” possession theory | | 19:58–22:43 | Natalie’s drinking, teen decision-making, family dysfunction | | 37:33–44:10 | Full breakdown of the acid trip dinner sequence | | 55:35–57:34 | Secret tunnels, “Bowden backrooms”, wall chase, horror set piece | | 61:41–66:33 | Live conspiracy board updates, new clues, and running jokes |

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Conclusion & Host Reflections

• The Vibe: The hosts agree that, whether intentionally campy or not, “Possum” is a bold, entertaining turning point for Cape Fear, fully leaning into its surreal, Southern Gothic madness.
• Engagement: Listener theories, pop culture references, and ongoing bits bring extra joy — the show is essentially a communal, chaotic puzzle box for the pod and fandom.
• Outlook: Excitement remains high for next week’s appropriately titled “Mongrel,” with the continuing unraveling of family secrets and supernatural mystery.

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For further clues, questions, or regional “opossum” debates: prestigetvpotify.com or [e-mail].

Transcript

[Joanna Robinson]

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[Rob Mahoney]

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[Joanna Robinson]

Rob, what's your ideal cookout scenario?

[Rob Mahoney]

First of all, I want you on the ox. I trust you with that sacred responsibility to pick our music. I'm going to have to man the grill and I'm going to need like a copious amount of condiments. I need every possible fix in imaginable.

[Joanna Robinson]

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[Rob Mahoney]

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[Joanna Robinson]

Hello. Welcome back to the prestigious TV podcast me and I'm Joanna Robinson.

[Rob Mahoney]

I'm Rob Mahoney.

[Joanna Robinson]

We're here to talk to you about Cape Fear. The episode is called Possum. This is episode six of the season. How are you feeling?

[Rob Mahoney]

I couldn't have been more excited to see the episode title and I was just waiting all throughout the episode, like, is this gonna be the actual possum or is it gonna be a metaphorical possum? Probably both, but definitely a literal possum.

[Joanna Robinson]

Definitely a literal possum. This episode was written by Brian Evenson and directed by Trey Edward Schultz, who has directed a number of films including it comes at night Waves, Kretia for the drug trip aspect of not that Krisha's about that but just sort of like his ability to do claustrophobic family. The walls are closing in kind of storytelling. This is a really good match of episode to director.

[Rob Mahoney]

And it comes at night for the batten down the hatches dread that looms over really this entire show. But definitely this episode.

[Joanna Robinson]

Absolutely. We are drinking something Special in this episode, no free ads at all. And Savannah Coffee Roasters did not send us this coffee. But our listener, Tim from Savannah did send us some, like, Savannah Coffee Roasters. Good and evil beans.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yes.

[Joanna Robinson]

And so we have brewed it up. He also sent us to go cups from the Savannah Coffee Roasters.

[Rob Mahoney]

They're really quite beautiful.

[Joanna Robinson]

They are beautiful. If you're watching this on video, you can see them. If not, just listen to us sip them, I guess. But we're going to try the co. We have not tried it yet. We brewed it. I brewed it.

[Rob Mahoney]

You did?

[Joanna Robinson]

I might have brewed it poorly. No, but we made some coffee and we're going to drink it on a microphone. Is this podcasting?

[Rob Mahoney]

I think you have to do the honors.

[Joanna Robinson]

Okay. Ooh. Actually, it's kind of good.

[Rob Mahoney]

It's quite nice.

[Joanna Robinson]

It's bitter in a way that I like. I like bitter coffee.

[Rob Mahoney]

I think you brewed this beautifully.

[Joanna Robinson]

Oh, thank you.

[Rob Mahoney]

I think this is exactly as strong as I like my coffee. I think the. I mean, it's probably, what, a medium roast. I would say this one right in my sweet spot, right in the zone.

[Joanna Robinson]

This is really good, Savannah.

[Rob Mahoney]

See? But is it so good?

[Joanna Robinson]

Yes.

[Rob Mahoney]

That if you bit off your toe

[Joanna Robinson]

and return from the hospital, that's all I would want. I only want one thing.

[Rob Mahoney]

No free ads. But that's a good ad.

[Joanna Robinson]

Savannah Coffee Roasters. So thank you to Tim. Thanks for the delicious coffee. No thanks to you, Savannah Coffee Roasters. No free ads.

[Ad/Promo Voice]

All right.

[Rob Mahoney]

I genuinely need it, too. Like, look, it's a big NBA time.

[Joanna Robinson]

What's going on in the NBA?

[Rob Mahoney]

I mean, not to date this podcast, but, you know, there's a lot of activity happening around the off season. A lot of trades, a lot of signings, a lot of hypothetical signings, a lot of legendary players being like, bye, bye.

[Joanna Robinson]

Oh.

[Rob Mahoney]

And so here I am in desperate need of exactly this kind of Savannah Coffee Roasters roast.

[Joanna Robinson]

Now, if that ain't good advertising, I don't know what is. All right, a couple emails before we get started. I should say resounding support for. For your possession theory. From the comments and the email, I appreciate it. I have never seen such a unanimous clamoring of Rob was right in my life. How do you feel about it?

[Rob Mahoney]

I feel great about it, but I'm waiting to hear the resounding support from the one voice that is important to me, which is yours. Do you now support the possession theory?

[Joanna Robinson]

Not really. But there's more evidence pro your theory in this episode.

[Rob Mahoney]

Certainly I think my.

[Joanna Robinson]

When he says fuck you, Anna.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yes.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah, I'm worried about my dad and it kind of seems like maybe he's not talking about Tom there.

[Rob Mahoney]

Like.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah, there's some stuff. Anything else you want to say on the possession front?

[Rob Mahoney]

Oh, many things.

[Joanna Robinson]

We'll get to it.

[Rob Mahoney]

My position has shifted slightly, but I'm still firmly in the possession camp.

[Joanna Robinson]

Okay. But slightly away from 100% certain to like 98% certain.

[Rob Mahoney]

More shifting away of who is doing the possessing.

[Joanna Robinson]

Oh. Oh, fun. Okay. Possession Watch continues. Our listener Matt on the possession beat wrote in to say, I know you guys haven't watched Brand New Cherry Flavor, which is a show by Nick Antusca, who. Who is the showrunner of this show that our listeners already recommended to us. And I promise I'll shut. Oh, I guess Matt recommended to us. I promise I'll shut up about it. But there was some freaky witch mind control stuff in that series that Kate Fear is giving notes of. While Brand New Cherry Flavor was more plant and cat based. Here it seems we have Santeria hoodoo inspired magic that apparently lets people control their bodies. I totally agree that Possession should now be on the board. This show is bonkers. A listener, Kathy or Kath, wrote in to talk about a certain drug that people have already emailed us about, Scopolamine. I'm just gonna reiterate this because it seems quite persuasive and we've got a lot of emails about it. I am assuming that you've not heard of this plant spirit medicine quote, Devil's Breath, a derivative of Datura, sometimes known as the world's scariest drug. It is actually used medically in small doses for motion sickness scopolamine, and has been used for possession type situations in which it could turn people into zombies and sort of make them highly suggestible, kind of dead in the heart. I don't know how you're thinking this possession theory work like plays out. But if it's. If it's this drug based sort of highly suggestible sort of thing, is that fulfill the prompt for you?

[Rob Mahoney]

I don't know. I mean, clearly you could be suggestible to the point where someone tells you you are a dog and you act like a dog. I wouldn't say that's being possessed by a dog though.

[Joanna Robinson]

Okay. Because in this episode, a point in your favor, I think that you made last night was like, have we ever seen Nevaeh and Zack in the same place?

[Rob Mahoney]

We now have, unfortunately, we now have

[Joanna Robinson]

briefly before we hightails it out of There. We've gotten a lot of emails about this, so I thought I would finally address it. Our listener Ben and many other people have pointed out the Hyundai product placement inside of this show, basically. Most specifically, that Amy Adams, her character Anna is driving a Hyundai that people think is like just way too practical.

[Rob Mahoney]

No, call it out.

[Joanna Robinson]

She. I think.

[Rob Mahoney]

I think you can do worse.

[Joanna Robinson]

What would you call it? I don't know.

[Rob Mahoney]

I don't know. I think the implication is this is like a low rent automobile for someone of her legal stature.

[Joanna Robinson]

If they belong to the country club and have this massive house with a pool and stuff like that, they're not driving Hyundai's is what they're saying.

[Rob Mahoney]

It's a very nice house. Did you.

[Joanna Robinson]

Hyundai is a fine car.

[Rob Mahoney]

A fine car. But did you see their sunroom? Like the greenery around their house, around their tile work? Come on.

[Joanna Robinson]

So good.

[Rob Mahoney]

That's not Hyundai tire tile work. I'm sorry to say.

[Joanna Robinson]

Ben says the double Hyundai meetup scene when the two cars are parked in the. In the rain. Are we to believe she really drives a Hyundai as part of the Savannah elite? Ll so no free ads for Hyundai from us either, I guess. And then for weeks now, our listeners have been writing in to let us know that in the scene where Max gets the shit kicked out of him in prison, they were like, I spotted actor Paul Calderon in the corner just watching him. Hey, guys, why didn't you note that Paul Calderon was there anyway? Paul Calderon was there. He plays the Padrino who dies in this episode. But a lot of people recognized him as a very prolific TV actor, of course.

[Rob Mahoney]

And there's clearly a guy lingering in the background of those shots. We were distracted, I would say slightly by the Nazis getting their head beaten in on various.

[Joanna Robinson]

Like, you love to see it.

[Rob Mahoney]

You simply do. We were cheering it and we were distracted from the reality of who was in the background.

[Joanna Robinson]

It's true. We also got another. You can corroborate this for me? We got a number of comments from listeners letting us know that a cigar locker is also called a humidor, which is something I had floated by you, but it got edited out of the podcast just because I think our beloved producers were trying to make me not look stupid by guessing the wrong thing. But apparently humidor is a cigar locker.

[Rob Mahoney]

That never happened.

[Joanna Robinson]

That happened.

[Rob Mahoney]

She didn't. She didn't say it. Okay, you actually did.

[Joanna Robinson]

I said you did say it.

[Rob Mahoney]

It got lost in the chop.

[Joanna Robinson]

It did. Lost in the chop. But it does happen. And I really appreciate our producers Always looking out for us. Okay, anything else before we get into the episode?

[Rob Mahoney]

Let's get into it.

[Joanna Robinson]

We start with the prison flashback. How do you feel about this? This black and white flashback to. It's a lengthy one.

[Rob Mahoney]

The purposes it serves in this episode for the season one show us how Max kind of found his way into this religious orbit, if not exactly the religion he ends up going into the depths of. And then also kind of introducing the idea of. Part of the appeal is like, that you are in touch with the dead. Right. That you can channel or access the energy or see your lost loved ones,

[Joanna Robinson]

which becomes a slop version or otherwise.

[Rob Mahoney]

Okay, that's my first question. Is, is the AI slop so creepily accurate?

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Rob Mahoney]

That it is the exact ghost channeling that Max has seen years and years ago.

[Joanna Robinson]

What if. What if the ghost is in the machine?

[Rob Mahoney]

Well, now my question is, did Max or Nevaeh create said AI slot? Oh, and. And funnel it to Zack, the algorithm.

[Joanna Robinson]

Oh, interesting.

[Rob Mahoney]

It seems as plausible to me as one of them being a great. Wow. Player.

[Joanna Robinson]

Literally. Anything else? You're something of a journalist yourself.

[Rob Mahoney]

Formerly, but, yeah, sure.

[Joanna Robinson]

What do you think of a headline that just says guilty in all accounts, which we see in the clippings on Max's prison wall?

[Rob Mahoney]

I think it's pretty grabby.

[Joanna Robinson]

Guilty. Would you do an exclamation mark? Or just guilty. Guilty, all caps.

[Rob Mahoney]

Well, I mean, I mean, as you and I both know, a crooked politician doesn't grab the headlines anymore. It's not selling papers, so it needs to be something immediate. Exclamative. Yeah, I think it would fly off the shelves.

[Joanna Robinson]

We need a good assassination. We need an earthquake. Or I'm saying. You're saying. Or a guilty verdict that just really cracked me up was like, guilty in all caps is the entire headline. And then, like, you know, we should say.

[Rob Mahoney]

I think this is sometimes, despite its subject matter, the funniest episode of this season to date.

[Joanna Robinson]

I really liked this episode.

[Rob Mahoney]

It was very good and very fun.

[Joanna Robinson]

I had a really, really good time with it. I understand what this show is. I feel like, fully now more than ever.

[Rob Mahoney]

You know who else does? Javier Bardem.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah, Javier Bardem definitely knows. But also just like the LSD drug trip. Who could ask for anything more? By the way, all the people who thought it was an lsd. How's that taste?

[Rob Mahoney]

You're just taking victory laughs today.

[Joanna Robinson]

Humidor and lsd. Anyway, he's also reading Nietzsche in prison, among other things. Did you freeze frame all of his books? I just thought Nietzsche I didn't stop.

[Rob Mahoney]

I mean, it's just various legal texts. Nothing interesting other than the Nietzsche.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah, yeah, Okay. I liked this a lot. As a sort of origin story for his foray into a religion that he will eventually bastardize into his own. I also think that after episode five, the midway point last week, this idea that, like, we know Max's bad news, like, we already suspected it, but the show's like, no, for real, he's bad news. And so when we watch him shift someone to death this episode, we're like, yep, that's Max. Sounds right.

[Rob Mahoney]

I appreciate our journey with that, though. Like, if you're gonna make this a 10 episode season. We come into episode one and he's basically Joss. Like, down to. You get like the Roy Scheider zoom onto Amy Adams at the gala. Like, they're just playing it that way. 2 through 5 is like driving the Bowdoins crazy with plausible deniability. And then here he's just like, it's Jaws 3, apparently. Jaws 3D this time. It is very personal. We're inviting, you know, you're over at our dinner table and I'm going to tell you, fuck you, and I'm going to threaten you outright. Like, we. We are past the point of neighborly pleasantries by the end of 6.

[Joanna Robinson]

Funny tummy from LSD or no. If you walk into someone's house and they're frying up some pig ears, are you partaking?

[Rob Mahoney]

Absolutely.

[Joanna Robinson]

You are a love. You're. You're an adventurous eater, are you not?

[Rob Mahoney]

A pig ear?

[Joanna Robinson]

I don't know that. I don't believe I've ever had. Got you a pig.

[Rob Mahoney]

This is the way to do it. Crispy. Yeah, it's like, I would say.

[Joanna Robinson]

Have you made it yourself?

[Rob Mahoney]

Never made them. Had them, certainly.

[Joanna Robinson]

Okay.

[Rob Mahoney]

It's like, you know, like a crispy cartilage kind of like appetizer for the most part. Or in this case, like, throw it on a salad as your crunchy element.

[Joanna Robinson]

Cartilage is. Is not like a big sell for some people.

[Rob Mahoney]

For some people, it's all of the appeal.

[Joanna Robinson]

What else would you call cartilage? Like calamari?

[Rob Mahoney]

No, it's like if you like eating chicken off the bone, like, if you like that kind of gnawing sensation that's like. It's a little crunchy, but also a little chewy. It's kind of splitting the difference.

[Joanna Robinson]

Oh, like literally eating. Okay. All right, I'm open to it.

[Rob Mahoney]

Next week, Chase our Savannah coffee roasters. We're going to have Some pig ears here on the pod.

[Joanna Robinson]

I was going to say if I said that, like, I feel like I'd be responsible for flying frying figures, and I don't want to do that.

[Rob Mahoney]

I'm happy to, honestly.

[Joanna Robinson]

You'll take. You'll take out the slack? Listen, I have a favor to ask. When I inevitably died a really fun and tragic death, somehow when you hallucinate me, will you hallucinate me with my bangs as perfectly quaffed as dead? Melissa's bangs are in Max's hallucination.

[Rob Mahoney]

You already know. I will.

[Joanna Robinson]

You and I know the struggle of a bang, and it is not easy to keep every single piece in place. And I was just really impressed with how glossy and straight her bangs were in his vision.

[Rob Mahoney]

It giveth and it taketh away the bang. You know, it really is. It's a difficult balance to walk. Yeah, but, Joe, you do it all the time. Come on. How could I remember you but with a perfect bang?

[Joanna Robinson]

They're highly imperfect. Question for you. Natalie's pepper spray. Would you call this a Chekhov pepper spray moment?

[Rob Mahoney]

It's a good question. Yeah, I. I don't think so. I wouldn't be surprised if we see the pepper spray again. Okay, but even if we do, is it going to be that interesting? It's. She'll use it on Max or Nevaeh or somebody and run away. Like, the consequences don't seem dire.

[Joanna Robinson]

And I guess, like, it was just like the shot of it in her. There was like an ISO cam on the pepper spray in her hand, and I was like, noted. But, yeah, to your point, I guess I would rather someone use the nail gun than use the pepper spray. You know what I mean?

[Rob Mahoney]

On you, not on me. Like, I would rather be pepper sprayed the nail gun.

[Joanna Robinson]

Past the part where I die. Creative.

[Rob Mahoney]

Okay, you.

[Joanna Robinson]

I'm sorry we moved on. I'm just saying in the show, narratively, as like, a fun. I'm grappling for something. Yeah, I would rather someone's grappling for the nail gun that we saw in episode.

[Rob Mahoney]

It just feels more exciting to have a nail gun involved. Also, I did love how it's like, okay, Nat, here's your pepper spray. Zack. I guess throw your toe at him. I don't know. You get absolutely nothing.

[Joanna Robinson]

If you could just stand creepily with one arm sort of out at an angle, I think that'll be enough to scare off whoever's stuck.

[Rob Mahoney]

It is his signature move.

[Joanna Robinson]

Zach, in this episode. What did you think?

[Rob Mahoney]

Just creeping it up.

[Joanna Robinson]

Downtown usa. Yeah.

[Rob Mahoney]

Where do we want to start with him? Because he's saying a lot of stuff. He's doing a lot of stuff I really like.

[Joanna Robinson]

So in this. In the scene where Natalie gets her pepper spray.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

There's a thing they're doing with, like, when Zach's hair is, like, parted like, it's a very sort of like, Eddie Haskell. Like, I'm a good boy, and I'm just, like, giving you the smiles, and I'm just worried about my dad.

[Rob Mahoney]

It's good to be safe.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah. All this sort of stuff. I thought that was really great. And all of his stuff is super creepy, but I thought his little good boy routine was really good.

[Rob Mahoney]

It's really terrific. Can I float to you now my alternate possession theory, please? So I would say in this episode, we build up.

[Joanna Robinson]

I can't believe we waited this long.

[Rob Mahoney]

Honestly, it's been tough. This episode is building up to the big confrontation between the Bowdens and Max at Max's house, right? He's making dinner. They sit down. They're like, we're gonna bring the fight to him for the first time, not

[Joanna Robinson]

pulling a literal girl out of the wall.

[Rob Mahoney]

It's dinner party. It does build up to that, too. But look again. I got distracted by the pig ears.

[Joanna Robinson]

Sure, sure.

[Rob Mahoney]

I would say my main takeaway from Max in that conversation, when they finally ask him, like, what is it that you want? Is it money to restart your restaurant? Is it money for surrogacy? Or we can joke about, you know, egging on Anna, if you will, about the whole surrogacy situation. But, like, really what he wants is a chance to put his family back together again. And I would float to you. What if Zack is not possessed by Nevaeh but is possessed by AI Slop Son?

[Joanna Robinson]

Okay, okay.

[Rob Mahoney]

That this is Ghost Son in Congress and inhabiting Zack's body.

[Joanna Robinson]

So it's like a Russian nesting doll. And inside of Zack, there is AI Sloth Adam, who we saw sort of, like, spookily walk into his room at the beginning of the season.

[Rob Mahoney]

I think he is as familiar with AI Slapp. He was drawing him, Right? He was appearing to him in dreams.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah. Okay, follow up question.

[Rob Mahoney]

Okay.

[Joanna Robinson]

Do you think he's taken on the personality of AI Slop Adam?

[Rob Mahoney]

We don't know, because he died in the womb.

[Joanna Robinson]

That's what I was gonna say. Like, what is. What is AI Slap Adam's, like, whole thing?

[Rob Mahoney]

I don't know. But. But when you think about all the pieces of evidence and context of this episode, the creepy, like, I'm just worried about my dad. Yeah. I mean, he's obviously not talking about Tom in that moment, right? Is he talking about Max in that moment?

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Rob Mahoney]

All the creepy, like, humming into a fan, and then they wake him up and it's like, who's Zach? You're not my family. Calling her Anna. It's like all of. All of these little pieces of anecdotal evidence.

[Joanna Robinson]

What? Son?

[Ad/Promo Voice]

Interesting.

[Rob Mahoney]

I'm just saying.

[Joanna Robinson]

Okay. Hey, folks at home, email us. Where should they email us?

[Rob Mahoney]

Prestigetvpotify.com for sure.

[Joanna Robinson]

Or.

[Rob Mahoney]

But also think of a baby carrot. Gmail.com. and I have to say I'm really glad with our decision because the toe keeps toeing.

[Joanna Robinson]

Oh, it does.

[Rob Mahoney]

It's been in almost, I think, every episode.

[Joanna Robinson]

You've picked the star of the show for the email this time.

[Rob Mahoney]

Thank you.

[Joanna Robinson]

Please email us if you cosign Rob's. Because we were all in on Rob's possession theory.

[Rob Mahoney]

We.

[Joanna Robinson]

One.

[Rob Mahoney]

Okay.

[Joanna Robinson]

They. They were all in on Rob's possession theory. Will they be all in on AI Slapsta and possession theory?

[Rob Mahoney]

I'm just thinking there's a lot of neon arrows pointed in his direction.

[Joanna Robinson]

Okay. It's a great question. A couple new characters in this episode. One of them is, we met him before, but I don't think I knew his name. Henry. Which is Patrick. Well, Tom's lawyer friend with the mustache. His Mustachio lawyer friend who has this excellent legal advice. Let him make a mistake. Don't seem right to me. I'm not a lawyer, nor have I been in prison and studied legal texts. But let him make a mistake about the dangerous killer who's moved in across the street. Doesn't seem. Doesn't seem like great advice to me.

[Rob Mahoney]

It's really not good. I mean, look, what can a lawyer advise you to do other than what is legally allowed in this case? I guess So I understand maybe where he's coming from. It's a bad plan, though.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah. Mustachio Henry isn't like, hey, find a criminal and rough him up. Which seems to be Tom's suggestion later on in the episode. Yeah. Let him make a mistake. Tough. Really tough.

[Rob Mahoney]

That whole exchange was very funny, though, I think in particular for when Tom is explaining his circumstances and says he pulled this AI on me to sexually harass my co worker. I mean, when you put it that way, it doesn't sound very believable.

[Joanna Robinson]

Nor does Anna really believe it. Nope. She's like, what did happen, Tom?

[Rob Mahoney]

What's on those messages? It's funny. He didn't talk about the rubbing.

[Joanna Robinson]

You know, rub it up against me. All right, again, me. Natalie's drinking while doing college applications.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah. I owe you an apology about the. About the drinking problem situation.

[Joanna Robinson]

We are all on board with that now.

[Rob Mahoney]

Well, I think before we saw her take a little swig.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah, sure.

[Rob Mahoney]

Here she's.

[Joanna Robinson]

Now she's working on her night sweats.

[Rob Mahoney]

I mean, her. She's like three swell bottles deep into. Into vodka at this point. Things have escalated.

[Joanna Robinson]

Okay. I love the, like, clink of the bottle, like, after she's vomited on Tom. And then it's like the telltale clink of the bottle of just sort of like. There's nothing like a clink of a bottle to expose a drinking habit. I do think that Natalie drinking while doing her college applications is, like, a pretty relatable content. I was not a drinker at that time in my life, but I. I wish I had had a flask of vodka while I was doing my college applications.

[Rob Mahoney]

I think the essays go down more smoothly.

[Joanna Robinson]

I think.

[Rob Mahoney]

Little shot here and there.

[Joanna Robinson]

Oh, my gosh. My. Like, my joie de vivre. That would have come through in my personal statement.

[Rob Mahoney]

Just the right amount of, like. I care about this, but not too much.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah. Let me casually work in all of my community service as one does. Yeah, absolutely. Zack creeps into the room.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yep.

[Joanna Robinson]

Do you think he was actually there?

[Rob Mahoney]

I. Well, this is so kind of revealed to be a sort of dream, maybe.

[Joanna Robinson]

Well, but later, she's like, I dreamt you were there, but now I really think you were. And, like, Nevaeh appears, and we think that's a dream. But now knowing that Nevaeh was in

[Rob Mahoney]

the wall, that could have been her. I. I think maybe Zach was there and did stick his tongue in her mouth.

[Joanna Robinson]

I thought it was his.

[Rob Mahoney]

Sorry. His tongue. Yeah.

[Ad/Promo Voice]

Sorry.

[Rob Mahoney]

No, no, no, no. Let's rewind that. His thumb in her mouth.

[Joanna Robinson]

Do you think that was Zach, or do you think that was AI Slob Adam, who's.

[Rob Mahoney]

I think that was AI Slop Adam as Zach. His thumb in her mouth. The second thumb in her. I guess. Or is it the third? How many thumbs have been in Nat's mouth this season? Just the two. That's already. That's too many already.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah, absolutely. I do love Tom's reaction when she vomits on him, which is just like, even if you're a really good dad, you can vomit. It's the best you could do when someone vomits on you.

[Rob Mahoney]

But on the Nat and Zach front, why does every character in the show have the memory of a goldfish. Like last week she had him in a headlock because he was antagonizing her. And like, maybe doing witchy stuff with her would be girlfriend.

[Joanna Robinson]

Right.

[Rob Mahoney]

And now she's just like, oh, I'm so. I'm so relieved to see you. I was so scared it was gonna be somebody else.

[Joanna Robinson]

Also, like, can I. One of the most annoying parts of this episode. And I liked this episode. But I think the moment I was most annoyed by someone. Which is weird cause it's not the same as the too dumb to live move. Which I think is very clear in this episode. But like, when Anna was just like, be nice to your brother to Natalie over and over again. I mean, I. She was drugged at the time, but I was just like, shut the fuck up, Anna. Zach.

[Rob Mahoney]

Well, it continues the theme of they really only care about Zach. And even then they're not good parents.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah. Not be nice to your brother who stalks into your room at night and shoves his thumb in your mouth while you're just simply trying to drunkenly do your college applications. Really tough. Max. Katie. I have some notes for his behavior in general, in life.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah. Where do you want to start?

[Joanna Robinson]

No notes on his fits though. He's wearing like cream linen slacks with like a striped linen shirt and then like a cream hat. Like this whole outfit is incredible, you know. And he gets these photos. Tell us about the photos he gets.

[Rob Mahoney]

I mean, where do we want to start? We got the cross at Cape Fear Lake, I assume is what we're calling it. Sorry, River. Cape Fear River. A snarling dog.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Rob Mahoney]

Distressing Max.

[Joanna Robinson]

Is it Romeo himself?

[Rob Mahoney]

No, it's a white dog that looks like it has been through some fights or some pain or some torture of some kind. A photo of Max and Anna. The dog cage itself. And also a photo of Max and Wendy Wilson, who you'll remember is the Max Katie superfan who desperately wanted to be an ice cream cone.

[Joanna Robinson]

How could I forget Wendy Wilson? And then we get this message in the most disturbing handwriting I've seen in a long time on tv. You play the martyr. What if I tell the world what you did to me? Signed C. Yeah, so. And amongst these photos, we also get a rerun of some of the flashbacks we've gotten before. Much emphasis on this dark haired girl who seems to be part of his childhood growing up.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yep.

[Joanna Robinson]

So where are you on the Juliet Lewis?

[Rob Mahoney]

It's gotta be.

[Joanna Robinson]

Is his stepsister who was there when he was abused growing up.

[Rob Mahoney]

May. I mean, maybe Adopted, maybe. Stepsister, who knows the relations. Exactly. And here signs off her note as just C, C, the letter C. So

[Joanna Robinson]

we will be changing her card on the board to at least C under Juliette Lewis.

[Rob Mahoney]

That feels like a safe assumption for us.

[Joanna Robinson]

Then he calls someone and talks him on the phone, an old man, and is like, she. You know. What happened? She was institutionalized. I'm gonna come down there if you don't take care of this. What's going on? What's your read on all of this?

[Rob Mahoney]

Gotta be his dad.

[Joanna Robinson]

Okay.

[Rob Mahoney]

Is there any other plausible explanation?

[Joanna Robinson]

That's. I mean, that's what I would think.

[Rob Mahoney]

Preacher dad.

[Joanna Robinson]

Preacher dad. Shitty preacher dad, certainly. Abusive preacher dad.

[Rob Mahoney]

Doesn't even seem like a good preacher.

[Joanna Robinson]

Whose voice is that?

[Rob Mahoney]

Oh, I don't know.

[Joanna Robinson]

Okay. I have two theories. Okay. And I listened a couple times.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

Either that's Robert De Niro, which I don't. I don't know. I don't think it is.

[Rob Mahoney]

It would be great.

[Joanna Robinson]

Or we have yet to see Ron Perlman, who is in the cast. It didn't sound like Ron Perlman to me, though.

[Rob Mahoney]

Maybe he degruffed.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah. Maybe he's, like, unhellboyed his mouth.

[Rob Mahoney]

Maybe it's like there's that episode of the Nanny where Fran, like, drinks hot coffee or something and then all of a sudden loses her accent completely. Maybe it's like that.

[Joanna Robinson]

Your pop culture references are on point. Thank you. They're like, very 1993, but they're on point.

[Rob Mahoney]

I can only be who I am.

[Joanna Robinson]

You can only be yourself. Okay, so Ron Perlman having drunk the magical Nanny T. Yes. Now, sounds like this could be okay. Do you buy Ron Perlman as Javier Bardem's father?

[Rob Mahoney]

Kind of think about the age discrepancy. I guess it would kind of check out. Okay, also, just in terms of character actors you would love to see in this kind of role, Ron Perlman would be near the top of the list.

[Joanna Robinson]

Just, like, haven't seen him yet. And we're on episode six. If Ron Perlman is playing Ron Perlman of Sons of Anarchy and Hellboy fame, et cetera, et cetera.

[Rob Mahoney]

Alien Resurrection.

[Joanna Robinson]

Alien Resurrection. If Ron Perlman is playing Javier Bodem's father and Ted Levine is playing Amy Adams, we have two gruff legends in these father roles. That's fun.

[Rob Mahoney]

We salute our gruff kings.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah, we do. Okay, great. Would you say Ron Perlman is, like, of that horror universe? I mean, Hellboy is, I guess, in the horror space for sure. And probably he's been in other Horror movies that I'm not aware of.

[Rob Mahoney]

I think he's definitely is on. On Hellboy grounds alone.

[Joanna Robinson]

Okay. All right, great. I love Hellboy. Okay. Yeah. You know, it seems to me pretty clear, especially also if we're back on the green theory. The girl in the. The brown haired girl in the flashback was wearing exclusively shades of green, which is once again Juliet Lewis's signature color in this show. So. That's disturbing and interesting. Are you disturbed and interested?

[Rob Mahoney]

Well, I'm looking up Ron Perlman's IMDb, right.

[Joanna Robinson]

Okay.

[Rob Mahoney]

To. To fact check and double check our horror references. And I'm realizing I've his appearance in the TV version of Beauty and the Beast. And maybe I need to.

[Joanna Robinson]

Oh, my God. Where he plays the titular Beast. That's where I first met him.

[Rob Mahoney]

I mean, that's a horror story of a kind.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Rob Mahoney]

A monster kidnapping Linda Hamilton. Wow.

[Joanna Robinson]

As. As the Beauty. Just. I believe she plays a journalist. He like, lives in the sewer of like modern day New York, I believe. And she plays a journalist. Very like April and Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles coded, I believe. And then she like, goes. And she's like, who is this man? And. And then he like, looks like Ron Perlman, but hot and cat like at the same time.

[Rob Mahoney]

Sounds good to me. Also, when are we doing our full rewatch on that?

[Joanna Robinson]

I believe that has to be only one season.

[Rob Mahoney]

It's like, oh, we could do the Sopranos or. Or Beauty and the Beast is really good.

[Joanna Robinson]

I was like, should we do the Sopranos this fall? And you're like, should we do Beauty and the Beast Song counter. Something to think about equally, you know, legendary, influential in tv. Canyon. I agree. I said canyon instead of canon. All right, the toe is by Anna's sink. That's not where it will stay. Eventually it will make its way into a sacrificial fire burnt offering situation. You're Tom and Anna. You got the toe. You're just keeping it sink side right by the toothbrushes. Where are you putting it?

[Rob Mahoney]

Anywhere else in a drawer? I don't know. Out of plain view.

[Joanna Robinson]

It's trash.

[Rob Mahoney]

I don't want to recycling bin. Why would you want to be like brushing your teeth looking at the toe?

[Joanna Robinson]

Why are we keeping the toe? I understand why Zach's keeping the toe because he's possessed by an AI slobber Adam or something like that, you know, but like. Or a possum or something like that.

[Rob Mahoney]

If you are Anna and you found it in Nevaeh's possum bone maggot magic call It. What it is if you find it in the maggot tomb. Yeah, Yeah, I think you keep it for evidentiary reasons.

[Joanna Robinson]

Right. Okay, well, she didn't, like, put it in a baggie and, like, you know, not smudge her fingerprints all over it.

[Rob Mahoney]

I mean, she's not good at any of her jobs.

[Joanna Robinson]

No follow up on the Faith murder crime scene this episode.

[Rob Mahoney]

I guess the cops haven't found her yet. Again, no. Nobody remembers ever what happened last week.

[Joanna Robinson]

The AC is not working, and Zach does not have a new therapist. Which of this feels more calamitous to you?

[Rob Mahoney]

Apparently, the ac.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah. Really tough. I'm glad that they have oscillating fans going. But like this? Where's the sense of urgency? It's Savannah in the summer, and it's. It's August, right? Because they're talking about school starting dog days of summer. The AC isn't working. I feel like Tom. Let's get on. Tom's really not good at the to do list when it comes to fixing the tech in the house, I guess,

[Rob Mahoney]

so he seems a little overwhelmed.

[Joanna Robinson]

Do you think the AC is simply not working because there's a literal woman living in the walls? Or is it something else?

[Rob Mahoney]

Or the possum? Okay, One of the two shook the connections loose. I'm not sure which. Or maybe it was both.

[Joanna Robinson]

Or do you think the AC was, like, intentionally scuppered so that they would all want iced tea so that Zach could put LSD in the iced tea?

[Rob Mahoney]

I actually do think this is the case. I think it was sabotaged.

[Joanna Robinson]

Okay.

[Rob Mahoney]

I mean, why else would you get a gratuitous shot of literally every member of the family drinking a tall glass of iced tea at exactly the same time?

[Joanna Robinson]

What's tea o'? Clock? I don't know what the Savannah customs are. Maybe everyone has iced tea in the afternoon. Sweet tea in the afternoon. Sounds like something that could happen.

[Rob Mahoney]

I mean, my experience living in even the Texas version of the south is that people are just drinking sweet tea all the time.

[Joanna Robinson]

I can't do.

[Rob Mahoney]

It's a lot. I mean, it's like. And I'm talking full Kool Aid, levels of sugar, like, really, really rev you up.

[Joanna Robinson]

I support their culture, but I can't do it.

[Rob Mahoney]

All new Sundays at 9, exclusively on AMC and AMC. I am the Vampire Lestat. I'm a rock star now.

[Joanna Robinson]

I'm a little killer.

[Rob Mahoney]

I'm a little run. From Anne Rice's immortal universe comes what Vulture calls the most momentous event in fictional rock history.

[Joanna Robinson]

Thousands of fans love you. I want millions.

[Rob Mahoney]

It's my era. Anne Rice is the Vampireless Dot. All new Sundays at 9, exclusively on AMC and AMC Stream Now.

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[Rob Mahoney]

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[Joanna Robinson]

Natalie goes to get more boost and Max finds her. The. The podcaster who's essentially the paparazzi finds her. This guy, this podcaster, you know, And Max gives him a talking to. Gives him like a kind of gentle, comical little kick in the butt. Like a nice little gentle kick in the rear.

[Rob Mahoney]

I wrote it as a go on git.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah, very Texas of you. Go on git. I have a potential choice for a line read of the episode.

[Rob Mahoney]

Please.

[Joanna Robinson]

That's not water. That's not water.

[Rob Mahoney]

That was mine. Yeah, I think the only options are that's not water or whatever like thing he does when he's pretending not to be a villain.

[Joanna Robinson]

Also, when Tom says you took peanut butter, I just think Patrick Wilson delivered that really well.

[Rob Mahoney]

Actually, these are all great nominees. I do have a definitive pick that is none of the above and I'm going to save it until we get a little later in the episode.

[Joanna Robinson]

Is it Honey, honey, honey.

[Rob Mahoney]

It's not that. That is also great. Well, I guess here's the question with this category. Is it strictly the line read, or is it also the stupidity of the character involved sometimes and just the ridiculous thing that they say?

[Joanna Robinson]

Okay. I had always thought of it as delivery, but I'm open to other options. And I also just don't want to pick Javier Bardem every single week. And he sings half of his lines, and so it's hard not to pick

[Rob Mahoney]

him, but he is vibrating at a frequency in this episode that I don't think many people in our plane of existence can access.

[Joanna Robinson]

I genuinely thought that dinner scene was, like, fantastic, Wonderful. Really good.

[Rob Mahoney]

Also, whoever made the decision to give him the red heart sunglasses. Amazing. Immaculate. And he has, like, the De Niro style, like, almost aviators for part of this episode. But I think anytime we get the red heart glasses just kicks it up another level.

[Joanna Robinson]

And then the whole thing went red and it was quite scary. Okay. Zack is the first Bowden we see

[Rob Mahoney]

sipping tea with a creepy smile.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah, I didn't write this down. Natalie gets in the car with Max.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yes.

[Joanna Robinson]

Drives her back. He sobers her up. He buys her coffee. This is my too dumb to live.

[Rob Mahoney]

Really?

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah. Not, like, getting it knowing that he moved across, you know, and she, like, mentions it. She's like, stalker. He moved across the street. But, like, everything she's heard about Max. Katie, I understand that we've set up from the beginning that she's, like, doubting what Anna and Tom did and stuff like that, but I just feel like there's just so much evidence at this point that, like, she's so dumb for getting in the car with him.

[Rob Mahoney]

I'm not gonna pretend it's a smart decision. I think I have a lot of latitude for teenage characters in shows making dumb decisions.

[Joanna Robinson]

In part, like, she is drunk.

[Rob Mahoney]

She is a drunk teenager. I would not say, like, well considered thought is really in her wheelhouse right now. But also, like, she is inclined because of her age and her circumstances and frankly, the fact that her parents are lying about everything through their teeth all the time to think, oh, you're blowing this out of proportion. Like, this is a guy who, yes, is a little weird and a little offbeat, but is he really so bad as he seems? I think that would be a pretty normal teenage response.

[Joanna Robinson]

I'm not getting in that car, Rob.

[Rob Mahoney]

Well, nor am I.

[Joanna Robinson]

It sounds like you might get in that car.

[Rob Mahoney]

I'm not getting in the car. But also, we should just note, I think, really, the Value of having her in the car is showing that beyond just being willing to get into the first place and have this conversation, even after all the warnings, like, Natalie's clearly charmed by him in a way, in a different way than the other movies, but, like, there is a connection and, like, a warmth, a fascination, for sure.

[Joanna Robinson]

I also thought that the shot was really good of like, them with in the Rain. Sitting in the rain, as one does at the end of August, I guess, in Savannah. Like, you could just see the green through the, like, sunroof and the windshield and, like, the camera sort of tilted up. I thought that was, like, a really cool framing of it. Back to Zack sipping the tea. He's got a lava lamp and a jellyfish lamp.

[Rob Mahoney]

It's too many lamps.

[Joanna Robinson]

I had a lava lamp as a high schooler, and I feel like it's a great thing for a high schooler to have. If I'm Anna and Tom, we're cutting it at one novelty lamp.

[Rob Mahoney]

That's fair.

[Joanna Robinson]

Jellyfish lamp.

[Rob Mahoney]

You can't get rid of those things too. They're with you for life.

[Joanna Robinson]

You know, I actually don't know what happened to my.

[Rob Mahoney]

Well, the chemicals they're in. I mean, you have to take to, like, a waste disposal site.

[Joanna Robinson]

The absolute, like, scales falling from your eyes moment when. When first you take the cap off of a lava lamp and it's just like, bottle cap. And you're just like, oh, the magic

[Rob Mahoney]

in the universe is gone.

[Joanna Robinson]

Absolutely. Oh, it's just some goo that you heated up. I see. And it's just like a light bulb at the bottom of it. And you're just like, wow, where's the magic in the universe?

[Rob Mahoney]

It's so sad.

[Joanna Robinson]

Did you have a lala loop?

[Rob Mahoney]

No, but I had the same moment when a friend's revealed themselves in the same way. I was like, really?

[Joanna Robinson]

It's tough to see this, is it? It's tough to see. Anna's taking your anger management class. We didn't get a lot of lead up to this, but I don't feel like we need to. Like, Anna's been sent home from work. She has to take anger management classes.

[Rob Mahoney]

Mandated training.

[Joanna Robinson]

Right.

[Rob Mahoney]

And also yet another, like, we're not so different, you and I, with her. And, you know, we get this runner with Max in this episode in the flashbacks of, like, what do you do with this rage? Right. Clearly, Anna has some of the same problem.

[Joanna Robinson]

Kill Nazis.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah. And I'm like, I think that's a pretty healthy use.

[Joanna Robinson]

Pretty good macro dozen.

[Rob Mahoney]

The macro dosin Is unreal.

[Joanna Robinson]

We're macrodosin lsd. How do you feel about it?

[Rob Mahoney]

First of all, we get a microdosin line repeat. Although this time from Patrick Wilson. Yeah, Very much appreciated it.

[Joanna Robinson]

G is definitely dropped when he says it.

[Rob Mahoney]

Oh. I mean, this whole sequence was spectacular. I would like to take us through a tour very quickly though of like whose acid trip acting did you appreciate the most?

[Joanna Robinson]

Oh, okay.

[Rob Mahoney]

Like, who did you think were the real standouts here? I mean, I would say this might be my favorite bit of acting from Amy Adams all season.

[Joanna Robinson]

Hard agree. Really. Having not spent a lot of time around people tripping on acid nor having tripped on acid myself, I might be very wrong that this is accurate.

[Rob Mahoney]

Oh, I have no. I have no interest in authenticity.

[Joanna Robinson]

I do not. But it was entertaining.

[Rob Mahoney]

I want whatever brew of like kind of sinister, kind of checked out, kind of like floating in a different galaxy that Amy Adams is bringing in the sequence.

[Joanna Robinson]

This is the best she's been in the entire show. Yeah.

[Rob Mahoney]

I mean, Lily Coleus has to be during this episode, both drunk acting, I think to like varying effect at various points. It's a little spotty. And then here like tripping acting.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Rob Mahoney]

I don't know that she was necessarily a stand up, but I did love Patrick Wilson. Just smelling a kitchen towel.

[Joanna Robinson]

Patrick Wilson. Also the fact that Tom, when he is macrodosin is like, should I show the world my guns? Should I roll my sleeves on my already short sleeve shirt so that you can see my muscles? I would like to.

[Rob Mahoney]

He tried, but he got outsold. Javier Bardem is jacked when he's lifting up peanut butter.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah. I mean, because the outdoor fit is cream, the indoor fit is black.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yes.

[Joanna Robinson]

Villain on the inside playing good and evil.

[Rob Mahoney]

Just like Savannah Coffee Roast playing martyr

[Joanna Robinson]

on the outside, martyr in the streets, villain in the sheets. But yeah, he's got the black tank top on and the guns are blazing.

[Rob Mahoney]

And Tom came over with like skin tight polo shirt and it just wasn't enough.

[Joanna Robinson]

And he's like, oh, no.

[Rob Mahoney]

It was, it was a knife to a gunfight.

[Joanna Robinson]

Really tough. All right, so the drug trip happens. Did you notice the aspect ratio shift?

[Rob Mahoney]

I mean, I love an aspect ratio shift.

[Joanna Robinson]

Okay, I missed it. Kai is the one who's like, hey, I missed the aspect. I know. And I usually. I feel like I'm usually on top of it, but I missed it. Do you want to explain to the aspect?

[Rob Mahoney]

I mean, there's not, there's not a lot to walk through in the same way that your pupils might dilate the aspect ratio of the show shifts as they start noticing that, hey, the walls are moving.

[Joanna Robinson]

It's when Ann, like, starts to see the wallpaper moving. And in my defense, I feel like I was distracted by the wallpaper coming to life and me being like, oh, they've been macro dosed. The asset ratio shifts up as every single other person in the world notices except for me, and stays that way through the trip.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

Like the. The letterbox bars go away.

[Rob Mahoney]

Slut got your tongue?

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah. Slut got your tongue. Maybe that's the line reading of the episode.

[Rob Mahoney]

That was quite good.

[Joanna Robinson]

Slut got your tongue.

[Rob Mahoney]

It's quite good.

[Joanna Robinson]

Really good. Um, is that the moment when you realized something was wrong when she said, slut got your toy?

[Rob Mahoney]

Well, yeah. I mean, it's. It's clearly an escalation. You know, Anna's been so, like, hemmed in.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Rob Mahoney]

But intentionally all season. Like, this is. This is someone who clearly, maybe by her own admission during her trip about, like, how her whole life has been an overcorrection. Like, feels so bottled.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Rob Mahoney]

Doesn't seem like she would necessarily pop out the slut got your tongue.

[Joanna Robinson]

But here we are, you know, here

[Rob Mahoney]

we are, an aggrieved Amy Adams.

[Joanna Robinson]

It's possible that Dr. Anita at the anger management course has witnessed a lot of these drug shenanigans. They're talking about taking the kids right in front of the web camera. I want to shout out Patrick Wilson's, like, approach to the laptop. Smile, wave, close the laptop moment. I thought it was quite good.

[Rob Mahoney]

Do you think they were on mute?

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah, I do.

[Rob Mahoney]

Okay, so.

[Joanna Robinson]

Just seemed pretty chill. She's like, I just check to make sure everything's okay. Not, like, currently dialing 911 sort of situation. And then it's Natalie with the shotgun versus the drone.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

Who won this time? It's personal. How'd that feel?

[Rob Mahoney]

It was really great.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Rob Mahoney]

For some reason, I laughed a lot when Natalie said, fuck, I hate drones. Every line read during the trip sequence. I think we could single out here the. It's from my supply. Your acid supply. It's for microdosing.

[Joanna Robinson]

It's for microdosing.

[Rob Mahoney]

Don't have any disturbing thoughts. That had to me had real, like, don't think of elephants energy.

[Joanna Robinson]

When she says, I'm 17 years sober in this, like, devastating, heartbreaking moment. Yeah. Yeah.

[Rob Mahoney]

And she's terrified, like, that someone's gonna take the kids away.

[Joanna Robinson]

But, like, what have you done to me? Like, because of your. I mean, it was Zach who did it to a Certain degree. But it. But by having that in the house. Right. Tom opened her up to this. And this is what she said to him earlier when he was like, Max did this to me. And she's like, you did this by giving him ammunition. Right. Now I would argue that taking Max to that snake house, not to mention letting him lay. What? Not letting him, but like he smooched her in the park and stuff like that. She's given Max, Katie plenty of ammunition to work with.

[Rob Mahoney]

So, you know, don't take Max Katie to a snakehouse.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah. A second location or a snakehouse. Or get in his car.

[Rob Mahoney]

Can we just walk through? I guess like the fallout overall of the acid trip.

[Joanna Robinson]

I would love to.

[Rob Mahoney]

This is a classic everyone's on drugs, people start revealing things kind of sequence to each other. So for one, just the idea the

[Joanna Robinson]

stairs are too large for Natalie.

[Rob Mahoney]

First reveal the stairs are too large. That's a problem. We gotta downsize these stairs immediately.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah, yeah.

[Rob Mahoney]

The whole Tom has been microdosing this whole season reveal to Anna. Clearly important. She was not aware of this information.

[Joanna Robinson]

Do you think she would have felt better if he was like lexing it?

[Rob Mahoney]

I don't think under the circumstances that would have helped.

[Joanna Robinson]

Okay.

[Rob Mahoney]

We now have potentially new drone footage that could have been uploaded to the cloud right before the shotgun shot.

[Joanna Robinson]

You gotta be worried about the cloud. Always.

[Rob Mahoney]

Always. And I would say get a flicker on the newly installed security solutions at the Bowdoin house.

[Joanna Robinson]

Oh my God.

[Rob Mahoney]

That Natalie has now shot with a shotgun. And so I'm wondering, is it even functional anymore? Who knows?

[Joanna Robinson]

Great question.

[Rob Mahoney]

Nat revealing that she heard Anna say earlier this season, what if he knows what we did?

[Joanna Robinson]

Correct.

[Rob Mahoney]

Regarding Max, Katie, Zach obviously is just going to like eventually just walk out of the house as a result. I guess that's more of the. The fight after effects.

[Joanna Robinson]

That's just long term effects of being possessed by AI slob Adam.

[Rob Mahoney]

He's going to be with his dad.

[Joanna Robinson]

Okay.

[Rob Mahoney]

Is there anything else from the sequence that is worth flagging as far as like lingering in the air after all these people have been tripping out of their minds?

[Joanna Robinson]

I don't think so. I think we really got there. Which takes. So Tom's like, let's hire someone to rough him up. And I do think Anna being like, all the criminals I know are innocent was really funny and really good.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

And then the Bowdoins in their matching blue head over to Max's house. They do across the street. Does this feel like a good plan to you?

[Rob Mahoney]

So plan A is what do you want to be in five years? Plan B is, let's see if we can buy you off. Will you accept a large stack of money?

[Joanna Robinson]

Right.

[Rob Mahoney]

Plan C. Threats. Is that the extent of what they got to work with here?

[Joanna Robinson]

I really think they thought money would do.

[Rob Mahoney]

It did not work.

[Joanna Robinson]

It did not work. Didn't. Go for it. The pig ears. Oh, also something I noted. I don't know if this is anything, but when they're walking up right by the shrubbery at the front of the building, there's, like, a shovel and a wheelbarrow and some, like, disturbed dirt. So, like, I don't know if he's

[Rob Mahoney]

like, what, a guy can't garden if he's performing.

[Joanna Robinson]

I'm just a good neighbor to the neighbors, being, like, I'm out here in my hedges making, like, you know, green things grow. Or if he's actively burying something.

[Rob Mahoney]

I don't know. Well, he has been sewing discord in the Bowdoin house. And I would say now, propagating, fertilizing.

[Joanna Robinson]

Oh, it's a metaphor.

[Rob Mahoney]

I don't know. My plants are all dying. I'm not the source on this, are they?

[Joanna Robinson]

Well, like, how's your basil?

[Rob Mahoney]

Oh, look, the basil you can't kill. You know, the prayer plant. That one's thriving.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah, yeah.

[Rob Mahoney]

Some of the others, they're not long for this world. I'm sorry.

[Joanna Robinson]

Do you want some gardening tips from our listeners?

[Rob Mahoney]

I don't know that they'll help. I've read all the gardening tips. I gotta say, of all of the hobbies, gardening information on the Internet, conflicts aplenty.

[Joanna Robinson]

Well, it's really funny. You say you can't kill basil, and I'm actually like, I feel like my basil is really thriving. But, like, I've heard some people are like, I can't keep basil alive. And I'm like, but basil just tells you when it's upset, it just, like, wilts right away, and then you just give it water, and then it's fine.

[Rob Mahoney]

Also, it just strangles any plant that's nearby.

[Joanna Robinson]

That's mint. That's really good.

[Rob Mahoney]

Well, mint also, too. It's true.

[Joanna Robinson]

Okay. This has been Gardening Corner with Robin show.

[Rob Mahoney]

Well, while we're talking about acts of betrayal, do you take peanut butter's presence here to be any kind of betrayal to peanut butter?

[Joanna Robinson]

You can't force a cat.

[Rob Mahoney]

Is that true? Yeah, I've never. I never had a cat. Is that true?

[Joanna Robinson]

You know that.

[Rob Mahoney]

But what they couldn't. You know, that you couldn't pick up Peanut butter and take him home.

[Joanna Robinson]

I feel like it depends how many pig ears peanut butter has been fed at this point, but, like, you know, we saw it start. I don't know. It has to be a couple weeks ago.

[Rob Mahoney]

Well, turkey's the gateway drug.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah, absolutely. Every time. Turkey to pig's ear every time. But, like, how long has he been feeding peanut butter? Little snacks. Yeah. Loved Max's performance here. Oh, this is your cat. How weird. Came to my door starving. You know what I mean?

[Rob Mahoney]

He must not have been feeding it.

[Joanna Robinson]

Oh, my God.

[Ad/Promo Voice]

Starving.

[Joanna Robinson]

Look at him. Peanut butter. Really?

[Rob Mahoney]

The face that Javier Verdev pulling out the cat.

[Joanna Robinson]

Just peanut butter.

[Rob Mahoney]

Really? It's money now.

[Joanna Robinson]

Genuine high comedy. Like, really, really good. You can't force a cat. If it were me, I would take the cat home, but I would know that I would get scratched and bit by my cat doing that.

[Rob Mahoney]

Wow.

[Joanna Robinson]

It depends how long I've been neglecting my cat. And given that we've seen Tom and Anna just, like, not pay attention to their children, I can't imagine it was only Natalie who was really, like, taking care of peanut butter, and now she's been drunk for, like, a week, so. Also a fair point, you know, I don'. I think cats can be seduced by food quite easily, and I love cats, but they're not dogs, and you can't.

[Rob Mahoney]

Well, let's be real. Dogs can be seduced, too. If you gave my dog enough treats, she would eat my face.

[Joanna Robinson]

True. Dogs are loyal.

[Rob Mahoney]

They're loyal, but they're also loyal to the food, you know? Have you. Have you ever tried to force your cat to do something that is take

[Joanna Robinson]

it to the vet?

[Rob Mahoney]

Oh, just. You're trying to take the head to the vet and it won't go.

[Joanna Robinson]

Are you kidding me?

[Rob Mahoney]

I mean, my dog just walks to the vet, so it's not a problem. I don't know. You could have a dog that's real.

[Joanna Robinson]

Max. Katie. I was just taking my dog to the vet down the street. No, you try to put a cat in the carrier to go to the vet. The cat knows exactly what's happening. The cat will, like, hide in recesses you've never knew existed in your house. You have to, like, tear apart the whole house. I've been like, I've gone into the vet just, like, completely scratched. Also at the vet, my cat is, like, a problem. They have to put on, like, thick.

[Rob Mahoney]

Your cat's on a list.

[Joanna Robinson]

Thick rubber gloves to handle my cat. And they're like, we suggest drugging her next time. So I have to drug my cat to take her to the vet.

[Rob Mahoney]

So yeah, if you are a vet or a vet tech who has access to Joe's cats records, I would love to see what's on the chart. I would love to see the notes on there. I'm sure they've written prestigetvote.com

[Joanna Robinson]

gabapentin is the answer for getting the cat to the vet. Anyway, this has been pet owner and gardening corner with Robin Joe. I, I, I feel like this is a true cat behavior. You can't force a cat. Absolutely. What did you make of this story of Lila? Yeah, what like is this a real thing that happened? Is this code for Anna or is this code for his sister?

[Rob Mahoney]

I thought it was code for his sister.

[Joanna Robinson]

Okay.

[Rob Mahoney]

Where the names have been changed to protect the people involved and also any resemblance to real life circumstances are merely coincidence. So the story, if you may not recall from this episode, is there's a girl who thought she was better than everyone who basically tortures this young boy or I mean, could be a boy of any age, I guess, until she eventually like falls in love with him.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Rob Mahoney]

And then the boy like enacts his

[Joanna Robinson]

revenge disdain into desire. Right.

[Rob Mahoney]

And then uses that because he wants to extract his revenge in pain over time and like becomes horror torture in a way. And so he says when someone really wrongs you, you find your way and you take your time to make that someone feel the way you felt. Which is a total loss of control.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Rob Mahoney]

This to me feels like it's probably more Juliet Lewis, AKA C as we think we know her now coded than it would be Anna.

[Joanna Robinson]

But I could see it with Anna being like someone who, you know.

[Rob Mahoney]

But why would Anna have like tortured him? Why would she have like, well, in

[Joanna Robinson]

his mind tortured but like if she came in with an attitude of I'm better than you could see that, you know, and then he's like, oh, she doesn't think too highly of me. She's taking this case but she doesn't think well of me. I'm going to make her desire me and then I'm going to use that against her somehow. I don't know. I could see it going either way.

[Rob Mahoney]

Well, there's certainly enough allusion to desire or connection as far as Max and Anna's past. Like Max is really needling them both during these sequences.

[Joanna Robinson]

Oh, absolutely. I mean, because Tom's like, did you fuck him? Yes, like absolutely. The surrogate thing was so funny. It was really good because like him being like, oh, there's like an age limit, Right?

[Rob Mahoney]

Like, fucked up.

[Joanna Robinson]

Fucked up. Especially after he's just, like, shoved his tongue down the throat of Honey, who is much younger, obviously.

[Rob Mahoney]

His tongue. I mean, he's devouring that woman.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah. Did you get the sense when he. I was trying to parse. When he's like, who else? Who else?

[Rob Mahoney]

Oh, I think the implication is pretty clear.

[Joanna Robinson]

What. What is your.

[Rob Mahoney]

I think the implication is, Natalie.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Rob Mahoney]

He's just like, I'm just gonna throw this out there and let it hang in the air.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah, yeah. That was my read as well.

[Rob Mahoney]

Let you two squirm for a minute before I say this is a joke.

[Joanna Robinson]

Kidding. Yeah, absolutely. Okay.

[Rob Mahoney]

But, yeah, the precursor to that is what do I want? I want to be reunited with my family.

[Joanna Robinson]

Help me recreate my family.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah, you could help me recreate my family, perhaps by letting me borrow the vessel that is Zach's body.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah. All kinds of vessels available, I guess. Wow. And then, you know, he kicks them out. He's like, get the fuck out of my house. Like, let's do it again. I loved all of this. Like, what do neighbors talk about? Let's do it again. You guys can host. Get the fuck out of my house.

[Rob Mahoney]

A very Cape Fear cigar.

[Joanna Robinson]

The De Niro cigar shot is straight out of Cape Fear. Absolutely. I loved this. I thought this was fantastic. And then we get the Padrino secondary Padrino flashback where we get the fact that he killed the Padrino who had, I guess, offered him up to the

[Rob Mahoney]

Nazis, thrown him to the wolves.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Anything else you want to extract out of that?

[Rob Mahoney]

I think it's just kind of a continuation of the same.

[Joanna Robinson]

Did it feel like, betray me, I will kill you sort of thing, or the erosion of more trust? I put my trust in this Padrino to, like, carry me through this thing, and then I found out that he's the one who offered me up.

[Rob Mahoney]

And I think you can see the. The seedlings here of this idea of, like, this.

[Joanna Robinson]

You're really in your garden metaphor.

[Rob Mahoney]

Really. I really am. I'm sorry, but this, like, religious figure

[Joanna Robinson]

taking root on him,

[Rob Mahoney]

just wrapping, like, a vine, you know, bringing him in, like, selling him this vision of his religion.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Rob Mahoney]

That is, like, based on the idea of, like. Like, suppress your anger, and then to find out that that person has been manipulating you the whole time. I think you can see how Max might get to this, like, twisted version of, like, I'm gonna take these core teachings, but I'm gonna channel them the way I want. Very dark side kind of stuff.

[Joanna Robinson]

So you're like, reasonable Max is a reasonable reaction.

[Rob Mahoney]

I think some of the things he asks for in this episode, like, hey, two lawyers who are now married. One of them was my prosecutor, one of them my defense attorney. Could you issue a public apology and maybe not practice law again? That actually seems like a very reasonable request.

[Joanna Robinson]

I don't disagree. Okay, so the promise that Padrino gives him is like, you're gonna see your dead loved ones. And we see glossy banged Melissa and AI slob Adam.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

But in last week's episode, when Juliette Lewis character C says, like, I reached out for you, and he says, that was you, do you feel like. I mean, I don't think she was, but do you feel like in that moment, he's like, oh, I thought I was seeing my wife and my son, but maybe I was actually seeing this woman. You know what I mean? Like, just sort of like if he's. If he's like, I had these visions, and she's like, it was me. Do you know what I mean? Like, in that, like, really weird state that they're, like, trance that they're both in in the cigar locker, AKA the humidor.

[Rob Mahoney]

I don't know.

[Joanna Robinson]

I was just thinking about that moment.

[Rob Mahoney]

That would definitely check out to me. So the first time we see him really interact with this idea of seeing his dead wife and unborn son, who is now a teenager.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Rob Mahoney]

Is while he's getting, like, brain surgery performed on him with local anesthetic, which is some truly wild shit.

[Joanna Robinson]

We got to keep you awake during brain surgery.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah. While I do my cartoonishly, like, Dr. Frankenstein drill rev into the shadow, and then I'm.

[Joanna Robinson]

And then I'm going to put you into a coma.

[Rob Mahoney]

All makes sense to me. Okay, so supposedly he sees his wife and son. Then. Then he sees them again, as you alluded to.

[Joanna Robinson]

If you're a brain surgeon who is somehow watching Cape Fear and listening to this podcast, it might be thinkobabycarrymail.com is this how brain surgery is done?

[Rob Mahoney]

Do you ask them to recite a nursery rhyme and then also clarify that it needs to be in English so you can understand? And then secondarily, when he is kind of first converting and at the altar and they're all reciting these chants, that's when he sees the immaculate banks. Right. The sacred banks. And then, yeah, I guess, supposedly, again, in his dreams, maybe many times since then. And I just think this checks out where if a random kid gave you a drawing that is suspiciously like the version of your son you have seen in Your head. Some. Some, like, dots are connecting here.

[Joanna Robinson]

Do you? So when he was talking to Tom at the country club or gentleman's club, whatever you prefer. And he's like, the thing I really want more than anything, like, if I could have a moment to connect with my son again, like, I would. I would do it. And then this through line in, to recreate it. Like, do we believe that that's true, or is this just a cover for his vengeance? Like, is there an earnest desire to recreate his family? Not necessarily by impregnating Natalie or anything like that, but just sort of, like, in general?

[Rob Mahoney]

I think so.

[Joanna Robinson]

I think stealing their son.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yes. Also, why not both.

[Joanna Robinson]

Right.

[Rob Mahoney]

It's like you could hurt them by also getting the thing you want.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Rob Mahoney]

And turning that against the Bowdoins might be the sweetest form of revenge.

[Joanna Robinson]

Again, the bodinnah again, Zack, I presume, started the fire here.

[Rob Mahoney]

Well, I mean, Nevaeh could have done it, too.

[Joanna Robinson]

Together, maybe.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah. Also, who stole the toe back? Could have been either one.

[Joanna Robinson]

This is. These are general sentences that we're. Who stole the tow back?

[Ad/Promo Voice]

All right.

[Joanna Robinson]

Secret tunnels in the wall.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah. The boat and backrooms.

[Joanna Robinson]

Oh, Bowden backrooms. That's really good.

[Rob Mahoney]

Thank you.

[Joanna Robinson]

You're welcome. Go fuck yourself, Anna. I loved the red paint, like, spatter. When she took the paint can and hit Nevaeh in the head, and I, for a second, did think that was blood. And then I was like, oh, it's way too much blood. It's pain.

[Rob Mahoney]

It was a lot of blood. That, to me, was the trashiest soap opera est moment.

[Joanna Robinson]

Oh, yeah. Of just, like, the paint splatter.

[Rob Mahoney]

The paint can smack over the head with the paint with splatter. Like, really wonderful stuff.

[Joanna Robinson]

Stay away from my son. What son? All right, so what else do you want to say about this episode of television? Oh, and then we get the bloody footprints going across the street.

[Rob Mahoney]

Well, first we get Tom going into the walls.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Rob Mahoney]

And then collapsing. Fighting for his. Absolutely fighting for his life with somebody back there.

[Joanna Robinson]

You know what I have to say. Yeah. You know, for the actress who plays Nevaeh, whose name is not in front of me right now. Excellent. Screeching and screaming. Yes, Excellent. Excellent job. Malia Pyles. Incredible. Just, like, hellcat energy from her in

[Rob Mahoney]

this sequence, I mean, comes through the wall and, like, tries to strangle him, basically, as the rest of the family just kind of watches.

[Joanna Robinson]

I did think that moment when she grabs Anna's arm from the wall was really good. I mean, like, when they were like, oh, it was just a possum. I was like, I don't know. I heard some screaming that didn't sound like possum to me.

[Rob Mahoney]

That was the moment of the episode for me. It's like you hear two people screaming bloody murder, repeated bludgeoning and fighting.

[Joanna Robinson]

Oh, it's just a possum.

[Rob Mahoney]

And Anna's like, oh, it's just a possum, silly.

[Joanna Robinson]

Is that your too dumb to live moment?

[Rob Mahoney]

I think my too dumb to live moment is Anna going into the wall after Tom has literally come out of the wall, being like, there's somebody back there.

[Joanna Robinson]

I thought Tom might die in this episode if he went into the wall and, like, fell down through the floors and stuff like that. I was like, if Nevaeh's in the wall and Nevaeh kills him, I would not be surprised. She's so eager. Her knife is ready. Yeah. The horror movie moment of her, like, grabbing out for Anna's arm, I thought was really good.

[Rob Mahoney]

Really terrific.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah. And then just, like, pulling her, literally pulling her out of the wall, I thought was fantastic.

[Rob Mahoney]

Although in that two seconds after. Oh, it was just the possum. And we see the possum.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Rob Mahoney]

I was like, can Nevaeh animorph into opossum? Is that where this is going?

[Joanna Robinson]

This is very House of the Dragon. Is Alice Rivers a goat? Is she a possum?

[Rob Mahoney]

Could she turn it into a possum?

[Joanna Robinson]

Turns out no possum transmogrification is what you're saying.

[Rob Mahoney]

I can. We can now confirm we have seen Nevaeh and the possum in the same place.

[Joanna Robinson]

Is Animorph like, is another, like, 1993 reference, would you say?

[Rob Mahoney]

I guess so. Maybe it's a little later. Maybe that's more like 97, 98.

[Joanna Robinson]

Okay, great. I loved this. I thought this episode was great. I really feel like the show has hit its stride with me in my heart, and I had a great time watching this episode.

[Rob Mahoney]

It's wonderful. Again, I don't know if it's good, but it's wonderful.

[Joanna Robinson]

I know that when I watch it, I get to come in and talk to you about it.

[Rob Mahoney]

It's probably cool.

[Joanna Robinson]

And hear from our listeners about it. So it's great.

[Rob Mahoney]

We're all in the muck together. It's really what makes it so enjoyable. And we're all just. I mean, this episode was the sweatiest yet.

[Joanna Robinson]

Oh, well, the AC is not working.

[Rob Mahoney]

That's what I'm saying. And nobody is inclined to fix it.

[Joanna Robinson]

Absolutely. If you're just Once again, on the drinking alcohol. As a sweaty, banged teenager in Savannah, Georgia, I feel like Natalie wants a mixer. She's not mixing it with anything. She's just straight chugging alcohol.

[Rob Mahoney]

That's a lot of straight vodka, even for an aggressive teen who doesn't really know what they're doing. Like, it's just a lot.

[Joanna Robinson]

We're not doing, like, a. A Smirnoff Ice, whatever the kids version of that these days is, or, like, mixing it into the sweet tea or anything like that. We're just chugging it from the bottom.

[Rob Mahoney]

That's the thing. You got the tea on hand.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Rob Mahoney]

There's probably, like, some cranberry juice in there somewhere. Like, make something happen.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah. Tough. Really tough. All right. Did we do it?

[Rob Mahoney]

I think we did it. Okay, one last note, just for our lawyer friends who have been emailing in about Max Cady's sudden release from prison.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Rob Mahoney]

Earlier in this episode, when Tom is meeting with his attorney friend, they do give some flimsy explanation as to, like, oh, political reasons. The governor was embarrassed by this other case, and they, like, fast tracked Max's way out of prison.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yada, yada, yada.

[Rob Mahoney]

They yada yada. A little bit corners were cut, but, you know, a kind of plausibility in the world of Cape Fear.

[Joanna Robinson]

Next week's episode is called Mongrel and has three credited writers. Okay, I just have some questions about that.

[Rob Mahoney]

Is a possum a mongrel?

[Joanna Robinson]

I bet some possums are mongrels, but not every mongrel is a possum. You know what I mean?

[Rob Mahoney]

Now, I want to speak to the possums that are not mongrels.

[Joanna Robinson]

Did you grow up calling them possums or opossums?

[Rob Mahoney]

Nobody, Joe. No one says opossum.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yes, people. It's a regional thing. People say opossum. Yeah.

[Rob Mahoney]

No one says opossum.

[Joanna Robinson]

Okay. Mama calls.

[Rob Mahoney]

That is silent.

[Joanna Robinson]

O, no, I grew up calling. I didn't even know that they were, like, known as opossums, but some places in the country, they call them opossums.

[Rob Mahoney]

This with great love and affection. I could see you calling them opossums because, look, look, you're a very bookish sort. I could see you reading the word opossum thousands of times.

[Joanna Robinson]

My sister thought the word misled was mizzles because she had only read it.

[Rob Mahoney]

It's just in your head and in your head, I could have seen it as being opossum.

[Joanna Robinson]

No. Thanks so much for loving me and calling me scholarly.

[Rob Mahoney]

No, on the contrary, I'm saying I'm saying you're a learned sort of.

[Joanna Robinson]

I believe I'm right about this regional opossum thing, but I would like to hear from our listeners.

[Rob Mahoney]

I would, too.

[Joanna Robinson]

Rather than Google it and don't give us an AI answer, give us your real regional answer. How sweet is your tea? Like, what's the correlation between the sweetness of the tea and whether or not you say opossum versus possum?

[Rob Mahoney]

I like something. I'm thinking, do you remember that New York Times, like, regional dialect quiz some years ago? I feel like there's an equivalent of, like, how sweet is your tea? And we can regionally make a very precise guess where you put it.

[Joanna Robinson]

I kind of feel like Savannah, Georgia is, like, the hot center of it, you know? All right, um, we'll be back in a second with the conspiracy board and the new cards we're adding to it. We'll see you in a sec. All right, we are back with some more cards to put on the board here at episode six of Cape Fear. Having a great time. We're going to start off strong with Rip Jarto. Rip Little Homie.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Rob Mahoney]

We barely knew you.

[Joanna Robinson]

Charcoal briquette.

[Rob Mahoney]

Now, let's keep it going along the same thematic lines. We wouldn't even know about the jar to if not for the Bowden backrooms, the sacred liminal space inside the Bowden home. Who knows what lurks there beyond our own traumas?

[Joanna Robinson]

Do you think now backrooms is mandatory viewing to understanding this season of Cape Fear?

[Rob Mahoney]

I think it might be mandatory viewing to understanding the human experience.

[Joanna Robinson]

Great. All right. We're not sure she exists. She might be a metaphor. Lila, question mark. And Taro Bang.

[Rob Mahoney]

Maybe C. Maybe Anna. Maybe just some other lady.

[Joanna Robinson]

We have added C to the Juliette Lewis card on the.

[Rob Mahoney]

Absolutely. Checks out to me. Another C. The ac. The broken ac, in fact. Maybe it's a coolant leak. Maybe it's not.

[Joanna Robinson]

Rip the yoga drone. We're just, like, looking to get more. Some more red X on the board. So we're not 100% certain this is the same drone.

[Rob Mahoney]

Could be drone 2.0.

[Joanna Robinson]

We love to kill a drone.

[Rob Mahoney]

We do love to kill a drone. Already dead, though.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Rob Mahoney]

Melissa and Adam. Although maybe resurrected as a restaurant concept with a tasteful refreshed menu.

[Joanna Robinson]

Well, so that's why I made that card. Because the Ampersand is. Is a real restaurant name.

[Rob Mahoney]

I will say, as Ampersand restaurants go, I'm a little Melissa and Adam oriented than, like, flower and water oriented.

[Joanna Robinson]

This is why I did this. My Friend. My best friend and I have a game where when we're out in the world and you see a sign. That is a proper noun, ampersand. Proper noun. We take a photo and send it to each other.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah. It's one of the worst things that we as millennials ever do.

[Joanna Robinson]

Is it our fault?

[Rob Mahoney]

I think it's our fault.

[Joanna Robinson]

Oh, God. All right. Old man on phone. We don't know who it is. Is it his dad? Is it Ron Perlman? Is it Robert De Niro? We don't know. But there's an old man on the phone, so he gets a.

[Rob Mahoney]

We do know this man, Henry. Because we would know that mustache anywhere. Tom's lawyer friend.

[Joanna Robinson]

What do we. I'm just questioning my own artistic skills.

[Rob Mahoney]

I'm not.

[Joanna Robinson]

Okay, great.

[Rob Mahoney]

This is beautiful.

[Joanna Robinson]

Thank you.

[Rob Mahoney]

The nostrils are really what does it for me.

[Joanna Robinson]

Shotgun. Check off shotgun. You know, forget the nail gun. Forget the pepper spray. But we will remember all those things. But also, there's a shotgun on the loose, and Natalie knows how to. I mean, good job, Natalie.

[Rob Mahoney]

Oh, my God.

[Joanna Robinson]

Crack. Aim.

[Rob Mahoney]

I mean, anyone would know, too, if they listen to our widow's bay pots. How I feel about someone triumphantly cocking a shotgun. I mean, it's just one of the great things you can do. So shout out to Natalie.

[Joanna Robinson]

We support Natalie, but Patricia is our queen. It's hard to talk.

[Rob Mahoney]

It's very true.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Rob Mahoney]

The aspect ratio shift.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Rob Mahoney]

Do not adjust your television sets. We are zooming in and out of focus. We are changing the resolution. We're doing a lot of things because we're on drugs.

[Joanna Robinson]

Absolutely. Pepper spray. It's there. We're not sure if it'll come back, but we just want to note that it is there.

[Rob Mahoney]

We have a new tradition. We're starting a new subcategory of the board. Obviously, peanut butter has been renamed many.

[Joanna Robinson]

Many.

[Rob Mahoney]

It's just a better name.

[Joanna Robinson]

Absolutely.

[Rob Mahoney]

Subcard.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Rob Mahoney]

He's a fucking traitor. He is. You can't force a cat to do anything. But guess what? That cat doesn't love you.

[Joanna Robinson]

If Romeo winds up going across the street to the Bowdoin's, are you ready to slap a trader card on a dog?

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah, but it would never happen.

[Joanna Robinson]

Okay. We are retiring microdosing, and we're moving it on to macro dosing. We're macro dosing. Lsd.

[Rob Mahoney]

How much of the vial do you think went into that? That like the pitcher of iced tea.

[Joanna Robinson]

I bet Zach has a heavy pour.

[Rob Mahoney]

Just dump that.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Rob Mahoney]

Absolutely Immaculate Banks. This is the podcast for them. Yeah, whether they're in a vision of your dead loved ones or just watching the prestige TV.

[Joanna Robinson]

Dr. Anita's anger management course.

[Rob Mahoney]

Incomplete.

[Joanna Robinson]

Incomplete. And it has an incomplete.

[Rob Mahoney]

But along the same new media lines somehow. Podcast guy returns. I believe his name is Lewis something.

[Joanna Robinson]

Wow.

[Rob Mahoney]

You bothered to know how maybe, perhaps.

[Joanna Robinson]

Guys, this is not how podcasters behave. I promise you. No, this is some shitty paparazzi stuff.

[Rob Mahoney]

Other than the many times you have harangued people on the street.

[Joanna Robinson]

Well, then, no, that's just you. All right. Honey, honey, honey, the bartender, she's here. She's in her underwear. She seems like she's having a great time.

[Rob Mahoney]

Oh, just the ride of her life. You're hanging out with Max El Padrino. Not having the right of his life. At least not anymore. Shiv to death in prison, you know? I mean, you throw the wrong guy to the Aryan Brotherhood, and I guess this is just what happens.

[Joanna Robinson]

I mean, tough. All right, last but not least, the bloody footprints that lead from the Bowdoin home to. Across the street to Mexico.

[Rob Mahoney]

So, I mean, the toasts.

[Joanna Robinson]

Oh, yeah, there's four toasts on this one. Because it's Zack. Are you worried about Zack?

[Rob Mahoney]

Why would I be worried? He's being inhabited by a ghost son.

[Joanna Robinson]

Is that his eye at the end of the episode?

[Rob Mahoney]

Great question. So, I mean, clearly a mirror shot of the one we get of Max earlier in his, like, maybe third eye opening experience in prison, but now red. Feels like it's just the same shot, though.

[Joanna Robinson]

Okay. It's just still Max's eyes upon you, but now angry. Okay, honey, honey, honey. It's time to end the podcast. We will be back with episode seven. We're pre recording that one, so if you've emailed us. I'm so sorry, those emails will not join us. Rob is taking some sensible time off, so we're banking some Cape Fear episodes. But we will see you for the madness soon. Thanks to Kai Grady, thanks to Ev Ronaldo, thanks to Jacob Cornett, thanks to Tim. And not you, Savannah Coffee Roasters. Because no free ads.

[Rob Mahoney]

But also, it's kind of good, the

[Joanna Robinson]

coffee kind of rules. All right, bye.

[Rob Mahoney]

Hey, it's Ryan Reynolds here for Mint Mobile. Now, I was looking for fun ways to tell you that Mint's offer of unlimited Premium Wireless for $15 a month is back. So I thought it would be fun if we made $15 bills, but it turns out that's very illegal, so there goes my big idea for the commercial. Give it a [e-mail].

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[Rob Mahoney]

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