‘Cape Fear’ Episode 7: Family Matters

Summary

‘Cape Fear’ Episode 7, “Mongrel”: Family Matters

The Prestige TV Podcast | Hosts: Joanna Robinson & Rob Mahoney | July 10, 2026

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Episode Overview

In this episode, Joanna Robinson and Rob Mahoney dive deep into “Mongrel,” the seventh episode of the twist-heavy, fever-dream TV adaptation of Cape Fear. With only three more episodes in the season, they discuss the escalating stakes, family dysfunction, murder fallouts, and the ever-expanding mythology (and conspiracy board) of the show’s characters. They focus on the classic tropes at play, standout performances, evolving character dynamics, and the delightfully bewildering tone that defines this season.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Immediate Aftermath & Ongoing Chaos

• The action picks up right where episode six left off; no room to “forget” what happened last week ([02:47]).
• Three more episodes to go, but the hosts debate how many more twists and unresolved threads (murdered Faith’s body, Zach’s psychiatric hold, etc.) remain ([02:00]).

2. Death of Ray: Competence Is Fatal

• Jamie Hector’s Ray dies this episode, with Joanna expressing sorrow over losing the only truly competent character left on the show ([04:36]).
  • Quote: “This guy seemed actually kind of good at stuff… Too competent to live, that we couldn’t have anyone actually this good at anything on the show…” – Joanna ([04:59])
• Ray’s archetype—a helpful investigator/ally—never survives in Cape Fear stories, playing into the show’s tightening-noose atmosphere.

3. The Devil’s Breath: Scopolamine and the Undercutting of Mystique

• Listener theories about “Devil’s Breath” (scopolamine) influencing the storyline are confirmed ([07:01]).
  • How does knowing Max is drugging people with a mind-control drug affect his demonic mystique?
  • Quote: “Does that at all undermine Max Cady’s, like, decades-long mystique of, like, how does he do what he do? ...And then the answer is like… drugs?” – Joanna ([07:35])
  • Rob suggests it’s both supernatural charisma and pharmaceuticals: “Why can’t he have his demonic way… but also rely on some medicinal assistance?” ([08:30])
• Side discussion about scary prescription drugs and listener engagement with odd substances ([09:02], [09:07]).

4. Natalie & Max Road Trip: Lures, Manipulation, and Stupid Decisions

• Natalie, increasingly isolated and curious about her parentage, is easy prey for Max’s manipulation.
  • Joanna and Rob mock her “all-time stupid shit” for trusting Max and getting into his car ([24:10]), noting how little it takes to win her trust.
  • Max uses Don’t Fear the Reaper (Blue Öyster Cult) as cheeky roadtrip music ([23:53]), calling back to the character’s ominous, performative flavor.
    • Quote: “Don’t get in the car… Don’t follow Max Cady to a secondary state in the United States.” – Joanna ([24:13])
• Max tells Natalie he can’t swim; the hosts debate if this is genuine or just a manipulation ([24:56]).

5. Family Dysfunction: The Bowdoins and Devereauxs

• Tom Bowdoin’s endless rage is easily weaponized by Max, as seen in the public altercation/beatdown ([15:12]).

  • Quote: “It’s two words to Tom and you can make him punch somebody.” – Rob ([16:20])

• Anna, by contrast, is surprisingly the most resistant Bowdoin, despite her many bad decisions ([16:23], [16:26]).

• The code to the Bowdoin gun safe is Natalie’s birthday—discussed as both a sign of affection and a narrative Chekhov’s gun ([20:06]).

• Paul, Anna’s ex, is “the most incompetent person on the show” and is hilariously inept at protecting Natalie ([18:42]).

6. Max Cady’s Origins: Daddy Katie, Hester, and Creepy Luke

• Max returns (with Natalie) to his abusive father’s house—the “Katie compound.”
  • Ron Perlman plays Max’s father; Bardem’s performance shifts into a rare, vulnerable “cringe mode” when confronted by his abuser ([28:36]).
  • Hester, the maternal presence, is both haunting and fascinating—Joanna is most eager to know her story ([34:09]).
  • “Consent king” Creepy Luke provides excellent unsettling color ([33:05]).
    • Quote: “Casting call: guy who looks like he might ask to kiss you within 60 seconds.” – Rob ([33:02])
• They reflect on the show’s casting of great character actors (Ted Levine, Ron Perlman) in the “bad dad” roles, drawing on their iconic menace ([29:00]).

7. Baptism and Family Line Mysteries

• Natalie undergoes an on-screen “baptism” in the polluted waters of Bluffs Point, signifying her initiation into the Katie orbit ([41:41]).
  • Quote: “I feel the same.” “Because you are who you’ve always been. My daughter. My biological daughter.” ([42:09])
• Both hosts are skeptical that Max is actually Natalie’s father, speculating about narrative misdirection and the true parentage (is it Tom after all?) ([42:19]).

8. The Conspiracy Board Expands

• Updates include cards for:
  • Scopolamine/Devil’s Breath
  • Daddy Katie, Hester, Creepy Luke
  • Crystal Katie (Juliette Lewis), traitor cards, and “Glitch-scription”
  • Gun safe code (Natalie’s birthday: 0702)
  • The Galilee (houseboat, also a “no cell service” location)
  • The ever-absent possum ([54:45]–[59:40])
• The board continues to capture the show’s overstuffed, wild mythology—combining running jokes, plot threads, and visual gags.

9. Notable Memorable Moments & Quotes

• The “Chekhov’s pepper spray” is deployed immediately for dramatic effect ([11:34]).

• Javier Bardem’s performance as Max is often described as “a masterclass”—levitating the series with wordless, evil smiles and mask-dropping facial acting ([12:32], [27:48]).

  • Quote: “Frankly… this sequence alone… we get no fewer than six to seven distinct evil smiles from Javier Bardem.” – Rob ([12:32])

• The “quadruple take” Max gives Natalie when she asks if he's kidnapping her ([27:24]).

• Light, repeated bits about possums/opossums (“it was just a possum, just a little possum, it was just a possum pinning for the devil!” – Joanna & Rob, [60:21]) continue to be running in-jokes, reflecting the podcast’s playful tone.

10. The Show’s Tone and The Hosts’ Relationship to It

• Cape Fear is “objectively insane, but the things that work, really, really work and the rest… is stupid or confusing or just enjoyable enough” ([49:01]).
  • Bardem (Max Cady) is the anchor that makes the show compelling; Juliette Lewis and Lily Coleus (Natalie) are highlighted as standout performers ([49:20]–[50:48]).

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Segment Guide & Timestamps

• Opening & Previouslies: [01:26]–[02:27]
• Episode Setup, Listener Mail Banter: [03:11]
• Ray’s Death & Competence on the Show: [04:36]–[06:51]
• Scopolamine Revealed, Max’s Powers Debated: [07:01]–[10:10]
• Zach’s Brainwashing & Possession Debate: [10:10]–[11:16]
• Chekhov’s Pepper Spray, Max’s Taunting: [11:34]–[13:13]
• Red/Blue Police Lighting, Family Color Symbolism: [13:41]–[14:53]
• Max v. Tom: Public Theater Game: [15:06]–[16:35]
• Paul’s Uselessness & Gun Safe Easter Egg: [18:06]–[21:16]
• Natalie’s Manipulation, Car Ride with Max: [22:02]–[26:30]
• Max’s Real Glitch, Father’s House, and Origin Scene: [26:52]–[28:45]
• Daddy Katie, Hester & Creepy Luke: [28:45]–[34:02]
• Houseboat “The Galilee” & Moana Callbacks: [34:32]–[36:54]
• Where’s the Body? & Ray’s Fate: [36:54]–[39:38]
• Crystal Katie, Beer Bottles, and Future Dangers: [39:38]–[41:21]
• Baptism & DNA Plotline: [41:41]–[44:06]
• Family Photos, Evidence, and Ticket Stubs as Character Insight: [46:07]–[47:10]
• Is It Good TV? Performance Highlights: [48:57]–[50:55]
• Dream Sequence, Max’s True Paternity, Unanswered Questions: [51:08]–[54:06]
• Conspiracy Board Updates: [54:45]–[59:43]
• Final Possum Bit & Outro: [60:01]–[60:50]

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Final Thoughts

• Cape Fear remains gloriously chaotic, heavily layered with motifs, visual jokes, and unreliable narrators.
• The cast elevates the material, with Bardem (Max), Lewis (Crystal), Coleus (Natalie) and guest stars Perlman & Levine drawing special praise.
• Quote: “...the thing that will stick with me the most are the possums you met along the way.” – Rob ([60:14])
• The conspiracy board (scopolamine, traitors, the Galilee, guns, green shirts) gets as much attention as the plot, matching the show’s feverish, conspiratorial energy.
• Questions linger: Who is Natalie’s real father? Where’s Ray’s body? When will the possum return? Will Anna’s dad’s Gilmore Girls–inspired dinner ploy blow up? And can Max actually swim?

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Notable Quotes

• “How many twists and turns are left for us?” – Joanna ([01:46])
• “I feel like we have been dunked in its glory, bathed and baptized in the polluted waters of Bluffs Point.” – Rob ([01:39])
• “Too competent to live…” – Joanna ([04:59])
• “Tom is just so easy, though. ...it’s two words to Tom and you can make him punch somebody.” – Rob ([16:20])
• “She got in the fucking car.” – Rob ([27:44])
• “Frankly… we get no fewer than six to seven distinct evil smiles from Javier Bardem.” – Rob ([12:32])
• “The things that work, really, really work and the rest… is stupid or confusing or just enjoyable enough...” – Rob ([49:01])
• “...the thing that will stick with me the most are the possums you met along the way.” – Rob ([60:14])

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To participate in ongoing Cape Fear theories or offer board additions, contact the show at:
prestigetvpodify.com or [e-mail]

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Summary by The Prestige TV Podcast Summarizer—because we never forget an opossum, or a twist.

Transcript

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[Joanna Robinson]

This episode is brought to you by America's cookout classics, Hines, Kraft, and Oscar Meyer.

[Rob Mahoney]

This summer, we're celebrating 250 years of American cookouts with all the classics. Heinz, Kraft, and Oscar Meyer.

[Joanna Robinson]

Rob, what's your ideal cookout scenario?

[Rob Mahoney]

First of all, I want you on the ox. I trust you with that sacred responsibility to pick our music. I'm gonna have to man the grill, and I'm gonna need, like, a copious amount of condiments. I need every possible fixin imaginable.

[Joanna Robinson]

Well, make sure to top your burger with only the best Heinz ketchup and Kraft singles. And you know it's not a cookout without Heinz ketchup and mustard.

[Rob Mahoney]

Different vibes, same ingredients. We all know it's not a cookout without Heinz Kraft and Oscar Mayer. Shop at your local retailer.

[Joanna Robinson]

Hello. Welcome back to the Prestige TV podcast feed. I'm Joanna Robinson.

[Rob Mahoney]

I'm Rob Mahoney.

[Joanna Robinson]

We're here, unbelievably, to continue to cover the television show Cape Fear.

[Rob Mahoney]

How's that make you feel?

[Joanna Robinson]

Oh, proud of my life choices.

[Rob Mahoney]

I feel like we have been dunked in its glory, bathed and baptized in

[Joanna Robinson]

the polluted waters of Bluffs Point.

[Rob Mahoney]

What better way?

[Joanna Robinson]

Okay. Mongrel is the name of the episode. Episode 7. Somehow, there are three more episodes of this season of television, and I cannot possibly conceive of what's going to happen. Yeah. How many twists and turns are left for us? And three more episodes, I think.

[Rob Mahoney]

So many.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah. Endless.

[Rob Mahoney]

There is at least one child in a psychiatric hold that will be broken somehow. There are murders that need to be resolved. Faith's body is still just sitting in that house, rotting. Gross.

[Joanna Robinson]

Its own maggot tomb.

[Rob Mahoney]

Ugh.

[Joanna Robinson]

How long can they go without being like, oh, hey, a lady died.

[Rob Mahoney]

I guess at this point, would it just get pinned on Nevaeh? I don't even know what would happen if it did come up.

[Joanna Robinson]

Do you think Anna ever thinks about, hey, should I tell the cops about what I saw?

[Rob Mahoney]

Two things I have found to be universally true about this show. One, the Bowdoins will never tell the cops what is going on. They will always omit crucial information. The second one, though, that I held true was broken this week. Previously, every character on the show would forget what happened the week before in the previous episode. This one, though, we pick up.

[Joanna Robinson]

Well, we pick up right where we left off.

[Rob Mahoney]

There's no room for forgetting, right? We are still straddling and pointing guns and running over to like beat people's faces.

[Joanna Robinson]

I love an episode of television that starts mid straddle. I think it's a great place to start. Okay, this episode's called Mongrel. Directed by John S. Baird. Three credited writers on this episode. Andre Jacques Maton, Maria Jacques Maton. Married or siblings. Who's to say?

[Rob Mahoney]

Okay, don't want to presume.

[Joanna Robinson]

Who's to say? And Greg Goetz is the third accredited writer on this episode. I want to start with something we don't, we don't have any listener emails this week because as we mentioned last week, we're sort of pre taping this one. So we have not forgotten about you. We're just letting Rob have a summer. That's.

[Rob Mahoney]

I appreciate it.

[Joanna Robinson]

That's a nice thing too.

[Rob Mahoney]

But keep the emails coming. We will be reviewing them for future episodes.

[Joanna Robinson]

Correct. Where can they reach us?

[Rob Mahoney]

Prestigetvpotify.com or thinkofabycarrotmail.com Will someone think of the carrots?

[Joanna Robinson]

I cannot wait. We still haven't released the last episode recorded, so I still don't, I don't yet have the evidence I need to prove to you that sometimes people say opossum instead of possum. But I was Googling it yesterday, results inconclusive. So I'm gonna need some, some the listeners to back me up on this.

[Rob Mahoney]

I'm very concerned. Nobody is out here saying opossum.

[Joanna Robinson]

I was. I don't think they say opossum like, oh, opossum, possum. I think they say opossum. Opossum.

[Rob Mahoney]

Nah, it's just disturbing.

[Joanna Robinson]

I found some Reddit threads where some people claimed where they grew up, but mostly I would have thought it would be the south for some reason, but it appears to be like a hoity toity New England.

[Rob Mahoney]

Oh yeah, the people who have never experienced opossum where it's just a possum. Where it's just a. It's a. It's a Concept.

[Joanna Robinson]

Right. And they're like, what an opossum to break into our abode.

[Rob Mahoney]

What a twer opossum.

[Joanna Robinson]

Would it twer. So opossum. All right, I want to start with a character we lost this episode.

[Rob Mahoney]

Okay.

[Joanna Robinson]

Jamie Hector's character, Ray and our producer Kai and I were discussing this before you got here today. I was devastated to lose Ray. Not just because I enjoy Jamie Hector as a performer always, but like this guy seemed actually kind of good at stuff. He was following leads. He put gloves. I mean, he was breaking glass, but he put gloves on before he entered. Broke and entered into a place.

[Rob Mahoney]

Well, to be clear, the breaking of the glass is his job.

[Joanna Robinson]

Correct. But I'm just saying, like also, he's not leaving fingerprints behind. No, Anna, he's taking photos. He notices the condensation on a beer bottle. You know, like he's just alert and aware and competent. And Kai posited too competent to live, that we couldn't have anyone actually this good at anything on the show or else the Bowdoins might actually like, get ahead of something.

[Rob Mahoney]

It's a great point. I mean, the whole little meeting that they have with him and Noah and the Bowdoins.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Rob Mahoney]

Of please don't fuck this up anymore. Like, yes, we are late to the game, but sit tight. We're going to try to fix this. We're going to keep the ball rolling. We're going to go through like vaguely legal, but also somewhat shady, but line walking means of resolving this.

[Joanna Robinson]

Breaking and entering.

[Rob Mahoney]

Light breaking. Breaking and entering, though recreational breaking and entering.

[Joanna Robinson]

What are the rules for houseboats? I actually don't know if they're different.

[Rob Mahoney]

Oh, it's maritime law. Okay, so that's all. That's a whole different ball game. Don't even get me started.

[Joanna Robinson]

Do you think Max Cady had maritime legal books in his jail cell?

[Rob Mahoney]

We're granting them back to the tape.

[Joanna Robinson]

Okay.

[Rob Mahoney]

He does seem exhaustive in his research. So on the competence rankings now that Rey is dead, I mean, Max Katie is quite competent at whatever it is he's doing. Other than that, is anyone else good at their stuff?

[Joanna Robinson]

We'll see if Zach's new psychiatrist played by great character actor Patrick Fishler. It's a good point, actually. Good at psychiatry.

[Rob Mahoney]

Well, not surprising that he appears in the show as. As a Mad Men alum in an episode that is written and directed by two Mad Men alum.

[Joanna Robinson]

There you go. Anyway, Ray, I'm bummed he's dead.

[Rob Mahoney]

Truly.

[Joanna Robinson]

It didn't seem like he was going to make it out of that encounter alive. And then also we should say, you know, the archetype of this character usually dies in this story. Yeah, this, like, investigator, friend of the family sort of person has not made it out of a Cape Fear story alive, I'm pretty sure. So tough.

[Rob Mahoney]

It's part of the tightening news feeling where you find the competent person who you think might be able to help you and bail you out of this. Guess what? They're just more, you know, fish food. I don't know where his body's gonna end up.

[Joanna Robinson]

And then the bones just, like, bumble and fumble their way into victory. It's tough. You hate to see it. Anyway, on that competency ranking, I did want to ask you, though. So with this confirmation that our listeners have been right since, like, week two about the scopolamine devil's breath drug situation they were locked in, I. I've literally never heard of this, but our listeners were all over this. But given the scopolamine of it all, I guess, does that at all undermine Max Katie's like, decades long mystique of, like, how does he do what he do? Or how does he get under your skin? Or how does he do all this? And then the answer is, like, drugs, A drug you've never heard of, that mind controls and brainwashes and zombifies you. Like, does that, you know, he injects a peach and gives it. Very, very goblin king of him, honestly.

[Rob Mahoney]

Is that what he's injecting?

[Joanna Robinson]

I don't know, because that just, like, knocked her out.

[Rob Mahoney]

That was like horse tranquilizer or something. Like, who knows what it could have been?

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah, but, like, you know, the mean has been in. In effect. And is it just Nevaeh using it or is it Max using it as well? And if it's, if it's for either of them, it explains how they can, like, get away with a lot of stuff. It explains how you could convince and Amy to shoot herself in the head twice over the phone or whatever the case may be. But I don't know. I think it kind of like, undercuts Max Cady's like, ineffable demonic sort of ability to move through the world. What do you think?

[Rob Mahoney]

Well, why can't it be a little of both? Why can't he have his demonic way moving through the world, but also rely on some medicinal assistance?

[Joanna Robinson]

Pharmaceutical, first of all, shout out to

[Rob Mahoney]

big pharma delivering a drug that'll help you not get sick on a boat, but if you take too much, will erase your Entire personality. Oops. How is this a side effect?

[Joanna Robinson]

How is. How is this allowed to exist?

[Rob Mahoney]

What happened to the fda? Like, who. Who agreed to this?

[Joanna Robinson]

I. I'll tell you this much right now. And I did not get any money from big Dramamine. But Dramamine doesn't do this.

[Rob Mahoney]

No.

[Joanna Robinson]

So if I'm.

[Rob Mahoney]

What, untether you from reality?

[Joanna Robinson]

No, it does not, as far as I know.

[Rob Mahoney]

But the fact that that side effect does exist makes me a little nervous about the many people who did email in. Like, what have they been using scopolamine for?

[Joanna Robinson]

Well, I'm not sure that they said they were users of scopolamine, just that they were like, you know, they know

[Rob Mahoney]

a lot about it.

[Joanna Robinson]

Curious.

[Rob Mahoney]

Too curious, if you asked me.

[Joanna Robinson]

I'm just like. I understand that this drug has existed long before. It's sort of like, clinical use as a C. Sickness drug that has, like, maybe ceremonial. Ceremonial usages or all these other things, but I cannot believe that that potent of a drug. It's like if someone was like, oh, you know what's good for tension headaches? Ayahuasca. You know what I mean? It's just sort of like, I don't think that drug belongs in our medicine cabinet ever.

[Rob Mahoney]

First of all, is it ayahuasca good for tension headaches?

[Joanna Robinson]

I don't think so. Probably not.

[Rob Mahoney]

I guess I have to find out.

[Joanna Robinson]

You will never take Iowa. I'll tell you something right now.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

You are never letting ayahuasca enter your body.

[Rob Mahoney]

Probably not, no. But for the sake of science, maybe I would.

[Joanna Robinson]

You wouldn't. All right.

[Rob Mahoney]

If the headaches are bad enough, we'll have to consider it.

[Joanna Robinson]

Because of the scopolamine and other things, we find out that Zach has, like, decided that Max is his father now that he's no longer Zach Bowden that he is.

[Rob Mahoney]

Where are you?

[Joanna Robinson]

In possession watch.

[Rob Mahoney]

I think this kind of stifles it pretty strongly, unfortunately. Right. He's been convinced through scopolamine and otherwise suggestion. The power of suggestion and hypnosis and drugs.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Rob Mahoney]

Then Max is perhaps his holy trinity.

[Joanna Robinson]

Right?

[Rob Mahoney]

The big three, as we know. So, yeah. I find it a little hard to believe at this point that there would be honest to goodness possession happening.

[Joanna Robinson]

Bummer.

[Rob Mahoney]

It does just seem like he is still Zach, but he believes Max is his father.

[Joanna Robinson]

I don't. You know, I. I haven't had many complaints or any really complaints about Joe Anders, who, once again, is a. Is a British individual playing Zack Bowden. But I did think, can we go fishing again? I just want to spend time with you was like, one of the most, like, folksiest things.

[Rob Mahoney]

He's quite fy so far, but also kind of sweet.

[Joanna Robinson]

Sure.

[Rob Mahoney]

Well, he. I assume he and Max have not actually been fishing.

[Joanna Robinson]

I don't know.

[Ad Voice]

Have.

[Joanna Robinson]

Has Max been smuggling man out. Out of the house? Or is he just misremembering how, like, because Tom is the person who took him fishing.

[Rob Mahoney]

And we saw this, like, flashback to this very fond memory he had fishing with Tom.

[Joanna Robinson]

So has he just, like, rewritten that memory with Javier Bardem's face instead?

[Rob Mahoney]

I think so.

[Joanna Robinson]

Tough.

[Rob Mahoney]

Very tough.

[Joanna Robinson]

Oh, no. Chekhov's pepper spray gets used immediately. Immediately. Is this the last we see? Is it like a one and done sort of situation?

[Rob Mahoney]

I mean, it is a very small pepper spray.

[Joanna Robinson]

It is.

[Rob Mahoney]

I mean, you can restock that bad boy.

[Joanna Robinson]

It's heat and it's pink.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah, yeah, it did its job.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Rob Mahoney]

Nevaeh got it right to the face immediately after. I think she rightly kind of challenged whether Anna would actually shoot her or not. But, yeah, it didn't work out well in the end.

[Joanna Robinson]

Got pepper sprayed then when. When Tongo's stalking across the street, really want to shout out this delivery. What does this guy want? Really good. And then. He's not your son anymore, Tom. He's my son. Like, you know, the sing song. Taunting voices back. But this whole movement, because, like, at first, first Max is like. He was scared out of his mind, you know, like, still playing the innocent. Quickly switches to this taunting. He's not your son anymore. And then into the public street performance of like, he's only a boy.

[Rob Mahoney]

He's only a boy. The cop. The very delicious combination of close range being a total piece of shit, medium range playing for the cameras and being a good citizen. Javier Bardem is so good. And frankly, in this sequence alone, this, like, open, navigating all parts of this and the eventual arrest and all that, I would say we get no fewer than six to seven distinct evil smiles from Javier Bardem, tapping at the one

[Joanna Robinson]

he shoots at Anna as the credit sort of goes over his face.

[Rob Mahoney]

And that, I mean, Cape Fear score. No other sound.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Rob Mahoney]

Javier Bardem as a silent film actor. The show is just levitating whatever it wants to do that. It can do that.

[Joanna Robinson]

Absolutely. Tom gets stabbed in the back of the Nevaeh's big ass knife.

[Rob Mahoney]

Was that Nevaeh's big ass knife?

[Joanna Robinson]

I think so.

[Rob Mahoney]

I thought that was like a fishing knife.

[Joanna Robinson]

I think that, like the, like, hooked blade of it. I think that's Nevaeh's.

[Rob Mahoney]

Oh. I thought Nevaeh's knife was much bigger. This looks like more of a utility knife that a teenage boy might own.

[Joanna Robinson]

Are you really?

[Rob Mahoney]

Not me. But other teenagers.

[Joanna Robinson]

It looks like a Raptor Talon.

[Rob Mahoney]

That's. That's what I'm saying.

[Joanna Robinson]

Okay. Are you a fishing guy? Like, have you got a fish before?

[Rob Mahoney]

I mean, I've got a fish, but I'm not a fishing guy.

[Joanna Robinson]

I've also got a fish.

[Rob Mahoney]

Fish.

[Joanna Robinson]

All right. As you mentioned, Noah is finally on board.

[Rob Mahoney]

Actually, before we do that. Yeah, yeah, of course. Can we do a little. A little color call out here for when the police show up? And you get the police lights.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Rob Mahoney]

The Bowden somehow only get the blue sides of the lights. And of course, Max and Nevaeh both only get the red sides of the lights. But then you get Natalie and Anna kind of coming into the four getting

[Joanna Robinson]

splashed with both bisexual lighting.

[Rob Mahoney]

Well, maybe bisexual lighting. Maybe caught between two families.

[Joanna Robinson]

I got. Okay.

[Rob Mahoney]

You know, they are looped into this in a different way than Aggro Tom

[Joanna Robinson]

would be, I would say. Also, what's interesting is that when we go to Cape Fear River, Bluffs Point, we meet Ron Perlman, who is. Max is playing Max, Katie's father.

[Rob Mahoney]

Katie, Daddy.

[Joanna Robinson]

Katie. Daddy Katie. He's wearing a green shirt. And after Nat has her baptism in the polluted waters of Bluffs Point, she changes into a green shirt. So this, like, green coat. We've already talked about this with, like, Crystal Katie. We have the full name now. Crystal Katie, Juliette Lewis's character. But the. The green that's associated with this poisoned branch of the family tree out here by Cape Fear River.

[Rob Mahoney]

So everything's going great for all these families. I think they're perfectly well functioning. How did you feel, though, about Operation Wait for Max, Katie, to make a mistake? Did you feel like it went well for. For Tom and Anna?

[Joanna Robinson]

No. He's winning the Public Theater game, like, big time. Yeah, big time.

[Rob Mahoney]

He's on Citizen. Just like, beating the absolute tar out of this man.

[Joanna Robinson]

He. You know, he did. That is exactly what he did. He beat the tar out of him. But this is all Tom ever wants to do, and Max knows that. The Foley sound on Patrick Wilson's fist colliding with Javier Bardem's face was so good.

[Rob Mahoney]

What do you think?

[Joanna Robinson]

It was like raw meat somewhere.

[Rob Mahoney]

Oh, yeah. Just like a pork chop.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, no, I think they go for something, like, even bigger than a pork. Oh, like a side of beef gets, like, pummeled in the Foley. Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. With like a little bit of cartilage crunching sort of layered in. I don't know how you achieve the cartilage crunch if you are a foliar.

[Rob Mahoney]

That's the trick.

[Joanna Robinson]

I would like to know. But yeah, it sounded like his face is breaking.

[Rob Mahoney]

You know, Tom is just so easy, though. Like, of. Of all of the Bowdens to manipulate. Anna is at least guarded enough. She looks. They're all very stupid, Zach.

[Joanna Robinson]

Zack is the zombie.

[Rob Mahoney]

I mean. Yeah, but I give teenagers a little bit more latitude here.

[Joanna Robinson]

Okay, that's fine. But I just think if we're doing a pure ranking, Zach has to be number one with a bullet. Zach, I'm your son now. Bowdoin. Yeah, I don't know.

[Rob Mahoney]

It's two words to Tom, and you can make him punch somebody.

[Joanna Robinson]

I think somehow Anna is the most.

[Rob Mahoney]

That's what I'm saying. And that's against all odds. And this is the woman who went once more under the breach of the drywall last week. Like, that is the level we're talking about.

[Joanna Robinson]

This is a woman who went to a murder scene, fondled the murder weapon.

[Rob Mahoney]

She went into the snakehouse with the convicted murderer and was like, let me record this guy. It's going to be fine.

[Joanna Robinson]

Wow. I would like to do an. I mean, I've already shared a few of the line readings that I particularly loved. But this delivery as we're speaking about Anna, this comes from Hester Devereaux. This one ran down to Anna Devereaux. You still pinning for the devil? I mean, oh, my God.

[Rob Mahoney]

It's really just the elongation of Dev Ro.

[Joanna Robinson]

You still pining for the devil?

[Rob Mahoney]

Really? I think the only competition for Lyra, All of the best stuff happening on the line read front. Happens once we get to. To Daddy Katie's house.

[Joanna Robinson]

Absolutely, Absolutely. Okay. Noah's finally on board, I should mention. Okay, so. So Anna's back in the blue linen shirt that we mentioned that she and Max Katie have in common. Tom is now wearing this sort of like lavender linen shirt that we've actually seen Anna wear before. So Anna's, like, wearing these, like, putting on these linen shirts of the various men in her life. But also, I just.

[Rob Mahoney]

Or vice versa.

[Joanna Robinson]

I just think it's.

[Rob Mahoney]

They share a closet, it seems.

[Joanna Robinson]

I think it's very sweet that the Bowdoin's just like swapping linen button downs. So it's an economical way to approach your wardrobe.

[Rob Mahoney]

It honestly is the most beautiful thing about their relationship, which is otherwise quite Corrupted?

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah. Very messy. Paul. We're gonna have to add Paul to the board, I guess. But he's, like, very unmemorable. Um, there's a hilarious line in this episode where Tom, in trying to convince Anna that they should send her, you know, felon father across the street to plant drugs, et cetera, et cetera.

[Rob Mahoney]

Good point.

[Joanna Robinson]

He's like, what are we going to do? Move, look over our shoulder, worry about our kids every single time they're not in our eyesight. And I was like, what do you mean, worry about your kids every time they're not in your eyesight? What are you talking about?

[Rob Mahoney]

You would simply never.

[Joanna Robinson]

So they ship Natalie off to Paul's for safekeeping. Paul, the most incompetent person seemingly on the show. And again, the bars in hell and he limbo's right under it. Like, who is this guy? Anna was Anna. Anna Devereaux was ever engaged to this guy Paul? Well, this guy sucks.

[Rob Mahoney]

He might have been a different guy at that point in time.

[Joanna Robinson]

Maybe.

[Rob Mahoney]

You know, maybe his life has really taken a turn since Anna Devereaux left him. But. Yeah, not a good dad. If you need me to say with 100% certainty that I am your biological father, I will do it. No, don't. Don't do that. Don't just make shit up.

[Joanna Robinson]

How often has Natalie been at Paul? You know what I mean? Like, what's the vibe there?

[Rob Mahoney]

They have a very strange relationship.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah. And she's like, mom's here. He's like, really? She's like, yeah. You know, call her if you don't. You know, like, Paul just, like, lets her go. It's just. What, a piece of wet tissue paper?

[Rob Mahoney]

Paul is completely. I. At least, say what you will about the Bowdoins. I believe from, like, an acting performance perspective, this is like, a weird broken house. And, like, I get how these people interact with each other in this heightened world of Cape Fear. I don't really get what Paul's doing here. Like, this character, who he is to Natalie. Like, they don't really make sense in

[Joanna Robinson]

terms of, like, tracking. You know, Tom has two kids, and one of them is his biological kid, and then the other one is Natalie.

[Rob Mahoney]

Maybe, maybe.

[Joanna Robinson]

Oh, maybe Natalie's also his daughter.

[Rob Mahoney]

Who knows at this point?

[Joanna Robinson]

Sure. In terms of, like, does he care about them in the same degree? Is he more invested in. In his son who is his biological kid or something like that? How. Like, how much of a love language do you think it is to make Natalie's birthday the code to the Gun safe is that show like that, he really cares? Could have been Zach's birthday, but it's Natalie's. Nat's birthday is the code to the gun safe.

[Rob Mahoney]

I mean, we should say at the time this is published, this publishes Nat's birthday will have already come and gone. July 2nd. Happy birthday to Natalie. But I guess it is, like, I didn't. I didn't put it together that way, but you're right. It is. It is a sign of affection, I would say. If you're going to do it, maybe don't just yell it out loud.

[Joanna Robinson]

Right.

[Rob Mahoney]

Maybe don't just tell everybody what the combination to the gun safe is, including your teenage daughter.

[Joanna Robinson]

Well, that was a tough. That was a tough thing that got an early payoff. So she's a cancer on the zodiac sign. Are you. You're a cancer.

[Rob Mahoney]

I am a cancer, yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

How do. Do you feel an affinity to Natalie?

[Rob Mahoney]

Honestly, I think we do have a lot in common, unfortunately.

[Joanna Robinson]

Where's your overlap with Natalie Bowden?

[Rob Mahoney]

We're both emotionally reactive people. It's just. It's just I can. I can see some of her follies in me.

[Joanna Robinson]

All right. All right. Cancer to unite. I don't know. I thought it was kind of sweet that Natalie's birthday was the code to the gun safe.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah. What if it was like the day that Zach leaked the nudes, you know,

[Joanna Robinson]

Sophia Gate Day.

[Rob Mahoney]

There are bad. There are bad answers to what is the. What if it's Lexi's birthday? You know, like, there are things that cannot be on the board.

[Joanna Robinson]

He's like, anna, go get the gun. It's Lexi's birthday.

[Rob Mahoney]

You know the one.

[Joanna Robinson]

You know, she's a Sagittarius. All right. Max brings peanut butter money back to the house as his sort of, like, lure.

[Rob Mahoney]

Many nay.

[Joanna Robinson]

Peanut butter, Right, Exactly. That's a maiden name thing. You can't do it for name changes.

[Rob Mahoney]

I think you can.

[Joanna Robinson]

I don't think you can. Anyway, he. He uses peanut butter to get sort of Natalie to open the door. I mean, this is an excellent use of cat lore.

[Rob Mahoney]

Basically, a skeleton key could open any door in the Bowdoin house.

[Joanna Robinson]

And then he does, like, a very. I mean, again, this is. This is where I, like, really admire Max. Because he doesn't tell her to get in the car. No, he just drops the bait. Drops a little trail of pig's ears or turkey or whatever, you know, and she. She trots after him. She goes get the gun.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

She comes up to the car. She's like, I've shared my location with my friend. And if I were Max Katie, I'd be like, what.

[Rob Mahoney]

What friend this is. Does she not have a single friend in the world?

[Joanna Robinson]

I don't think so. It's just Cali who sucks, and then, like, Nevaeh, who was a honeypot. So, no, I don't think she has a single friend.

[Rob Mahoney]

Maybe this is me inferring from the start of the show, but it felt like Natalie had a richer social life. Maybe that was just me kind of coloring in the space around C at that stage.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah. Cie. And then, like, Zach's friend who she goes to, like, see with her open container at the. The beginning of the episode, she just

[Rob Mahoney]

didn't seem like the kind of outcast that Zach is, but apparently she just doesn't have a friend in the world.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah. Yeah. When she's like, I shared my location, he's like, sure you did, but. Sure you did.

[Rob Mahoney]

But that's what it is. I mean, it's like she is clearly feeling isolated in a bunch of different ways, betrayed by her parents, like, doesn't have a good sense of what the truth is about who she is, why she's asking that. Now, I do agree with Paul. Like, we went all these years and you never brought this up is a little weird, right? But here you are now. And I think what Max does, no drugs required, is, like, give her enough encouragement and confidence and mystery. Where I. I think the greatest manipulations in. In movies and TV usually come from when the detective. The would be detective, feels like they're picking up the scent.

[Joanna Robinson]

Right.

[Rob Mahoney]

It's like, oh, I'm putting things together on my own. Where in reality, Max is just dropping stuff left and right for her to pick up.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah, absolutely. And later, of course. I mean, I don't want to skip past what's on the ox. When. When you're on a road trip with Max Getty, we can talk about that. Blue Oyster. Colton, a second.

[Rob Mahoney]

But, like, it's a little cheeky.

[Joanna Robinson]

Really.

[Rob Mahoney]

Don't Fear the Reaper.

[Joanna Robinson]

Oh, for this man. I just felt like I really liked the vibe. Of what? Of what's playing in Max Katie's car.

[Rob Mahoney]

Oh, yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

This, like,'70s dad.

[Rob Mahoney]

That part fit.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah. But. Yeah.

[Rob Mahoney]

Don't get in the car.

[Joanna Robinson]

Well, I said this last week. Don't get in the car.

[Rob Mahoney]

This is so much worse than the first time.

[Joanna Robinson]

Don't follow Max Katie to a secondary state in the United States. Is that. Is that the.

[Rob Mahoney]

The escalation from. Let me take you to get a coffee already. You probably shouldn't do it, but she did it to. I don't even know where you're going. Right, But I'm going to get in this car with a gun I don't know how to use in a drawstring bag. After everything we've just experienced together, Natalie simply not. And all it took was seeing some very obviously staged text messages and her being like, wow, you really changed my mind on this.

[Joanna Robinson]

I'm sorry she hurt you, but I have no more information for you, Natalie. Yeah, this is all time stupid shit from Natalie. Very bad facts we learn in the car. Max Katie can't swim.

[Rob Mahoney]

So he says. Oh, I. I just interpret everything he says in the car to be a means to pull her closer. Right. It's like little ways for her to feel sorry for him. Little ways for him for her to feel like he is trusting her to drive the car. Even his like mental episode. Do we think that actually happened?

[Joanna Robinson]

Oh, I kind of do.

[Rob Mahoney]

I believe that those things do happen to him. But it feels like the kind of thing he could stage to give her the chance to drive. Which if he's bugging their house, he knows she wants to do.

[Joanna Robinson]

Right. Lerner's permanent is on our conspiracy board for a reason. Like, this is a vulnerability of hers that she, she wants. But I really felt like he was actually going through something. And also the sound design was like giving us that sort of like high wine sound you get when someone's having like a headache.

[Rob Mahoney]

But is that just the Natalie level panic of having to grab the wheel in that moment?

[Joanna Robinson]

I think his glitch prescription, his glitch scription needs to go on the conspiracy board.

[Rob Mahoney]

Glitch scription is a card. There's really no doubt. I just think the I'm going to have this very conveniently timed, inconveniently timed for driving purposes, but conveniently timed for manipulation purposes. Head glitch. And afterwards I'm be like, oh, my head hurts so much because your dad hit me in the head many times.

[Joanna Robinson]

That was obviously like a World Club, World cup esque, like flop, you know. But like, I just think that, I think that was a real glitch. I. I don't know. You don't think Max Katie not being able to swim would be like an interesting thing to be on the show. Like especially a story that has at least in the 90s, culminated with a houseboat on, on Rocky Shores sort of situation.

[Rob Mahoney]

The solution with Max Katie, not unlike the solution in 28 years later, is just like go live on an island and he can't get to you.

[Joanna Robinson]

Ooh. With the causeway.

[Rob Mahoney]

Hope there's not a causeway, or else you really have to mind the tides. But this is the Max Cady question. Is, like, is he the most Machiavellian planner that the world has ever seen, or is he just great at improv?

[Joanna Robinson]

I think both. I think he. Like, we've talked about this before. It's like, how much is planned and how much is just sort of like, making the most of a given opportunity. You know what I mean? And, like, when Nevaeh gets caught. She's not planning to get caught, but, like, she's, you know, she's like, taunting Anna, like, bet you can't shoot me. She doesn't account for the pepper spray, but there are, like, moments when you have to pivot and figure things out. He is obviously has plans within plans. He injected that peach before they even got in the car.

[Rob Mahoney]

He knew she was getting in the car.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah, tough.

[Rob Mahoney]

Here's one area where he did just

[Joanna Robinson]

make it read so clearly.

[Rob Mahoney]

One area where he did make the most of it. When Natalie says, are you kidnapping me? And he hits her with the rare quadruple take as a bit.

[Joanna Robinson]

Give it. Give it to me.

[Rob Mahoney]

I simply can't. I don't go past double take. My neck doesn't work that way.

[Joanna Robinson]

You've never done a triple take. But when he's like, that's hilarious. That's hilarious.

[Rob Mahoney]

And you know what? He's right.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Rob Mahoney]

She got in the fucking car.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Rob Mahoney]

She want. She wants to.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah. Masterclass in acting. It really is from our guy, Max, Katie, not my guy.

[Rob Mahoney]

And so much more kind of mask dropping from him at this stage in the season. Like, anytime someone can't see him, Natalie gets in the car and he's above it. Complete facial change.

[Joanna Robinson]

Absolutely. When he walks away from her and he's, like, smirking and sneering because he's know. He knows he's hooked her.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yep.

[Joanna Robinson]

So we go back to the family home, and this is another moment where we get to appreciate what Javier Bardem is capable of. Because Max, Katie, who has been, like, in control of every situation he's been in, shows up to. To interrogate his abusive father. And his abusive father, who used his dog training skills to abuse his son, can make him sort of cower and cringe. And, like, does Max get what he wants at the end of the day? Yes, from Hester. But his father puts him on the back foot.

[Rob Mahoney]

Oh, yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

Just sort of like. It was. It was really impressive to See Javier Bardem flip into this sort of cringe, cringe mode sort of thing.

[Rob Mahoney]

We saw it activated a little bit when he met with Crystal in the humidor earlier this season.

[Joanna Robinson]

Right.

[Rob Mahoney]

Like a little bit of that. Mixed it with some just casual sibling make out, spitting stuff. But this is different. I mean, your fave, not me.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Rob Mahoney]

I mean, Rob Perlman is just playing like an absolute piece of shit here in, In a really wonderful storytelling kind of way. The whole, like, if you train a dog well, they'll always remember who their master is. Kind of like that kind of psychosis.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Rob Mahoney]

Incredibly effective.

[Joanna Robinson]

A very, like, we're not so different, you and I, when we have Ron Perlman showing up as Max, Katie's father, daddy Katie in this episode, and then Ted Levine showing back up as Anna's shitty father. Right? So the two shitty, shitty father played by these great, you know, actors that we've known for so long who are capable of such menace, who have this inherent menace to them. I was, like, going back and watching some Ted Levine, like, yeah, sounds the lamb stuff. And it's just like, it's incredible what he does in that movie. And. And so he's got these, like, beautiful eyes, as do, like, most of the people on this show, but he's just like, you know, and he's doing this whole, like, I'm reformed. I was certainly hoping you would give me a second chance. You know, like, he's in his, like, tidy little polo with his, like, name tag from work, just like this whole reformed thing. And, you know, like, we're supposed to believe in, in, in reform for people and, and second chances. But there's just something about Ted Levine where I'm just sort of like, I wouldn't.

[Rob Mahoney]

Oh, yeah. Nor would I. But also, I think it's just as Anna straight in the crosshairs where, yeah, theoretically, her entire professional life is about giving people second chances.

[Joanna Robinson]

Oh, yeah.

[Rob Mahoney]

And here she is with her own dad being like, you're not having fucking dinner with my kids. Are you kidding me?

[Joanna Robinson]

It's her. It's her. Like, she. The confrontation that she is encountering these last few weeks has been really tough for her.

[Rob Mahoney]

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[Joanna Robinson]

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[Rob Mahoney]

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[Joanna Robinson]

Sorry, I think there's been a mistake. I bought it from Carvana.

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[Joanna Robinson]

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[Rob Mahoney]

So there's no.

[Joanna Robinson]

No, no Buyer's remorse. More like buyers rejoice.

[Rob Mahoney]

I guess I'll let myself out. Congratulations. I mean it.

[Joanna Robinson]

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[Joanna Robinson]

Did I ever tell you about the time I saw Ted Levine in a bookstore that I worked in?

[Rob Mahoney]

No.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah. Well, of the bookshops that I worked in, he came in and one of my co workers walked up to me and they're like, buffalo Bill is in. And I was like, where? And they were like the gardening section. And I was like, incredible. And he bought some gardening books.

[Rob Mahoney]

So I mean, there were worse sections for him to be in.

[Joanna Robinson]

Absolutely.

[Rob Mahoney]

Like the lotions, meat preparation, many things,

[Joanna Robinson]

sewing, you know, bug maintenance and care of bugs. I don't know. I really liked this Max Katie goes home session. Do you want to talk about creepy Luke?

[Rob Mahoney]

I would love to talk about creepy Luke. I mean, first of all, casting call guy who looks like he might ask to kiss you within 60 seconds. And while we're saluting our Foley artist, I would also like to salute whatever boom mic operator sufficiently captured his like mouth breathing, close range mouth breathing as he really makes the moves on that.

[Joanna Robinson]

He likes the shy dogs, you know,

[Rob Mahoney]

consent that made me, Max style, like fold up into a little colonel like I did not like it.

[Joanna Robinson]

You know, consent is key. And he did ask, wow, can I kiss you?

[Rob Mahoney]

Our consent king.

[Joanna Robinson]

Our consent king. Creepy Luke.

[Rob Mahoney]

Wow.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah. I think all he contains multitudes. Consent king, Creepy Luke. He just feeds the dogs.

[Rob Mahoney]

He just feeds the dogs. He Looks after him. He feels protective of them.

[Joanna Robinson]

You have any thoughts about this guy?

[Rob Mahoney]

Do we see him again?

[Joanna Robinson]

Can't be nothing. He's just there for, like, creepy, like, color to send Natalie, like, running towards the porch.

[Rob Mahoney]

Just an unsettling bit of drapery.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Rob Mahoney]

I think this is the question with

[Joanna Robinson]

overall, is he, like, a Boo Radley type figure, like, misunderstood in his time?

[Rob Mahoney]

Of all of the characters at the Katy. At Daddy Katie's house.

[Joanna Robinson]

Katy compound.

[Rob Mahoney]

The Katy compound. Thank you. I mean, I think we see Ron Perlman again. We've gotten one phone call and one appearance.

[Joanna Robinson]

Simply must.

[Rob Mahoney]

We're going to get one more Ron Perlman show. Hester. That might be the end of Hester.

[Joanna Robinson]

Can I just say, though, between Daddy Katie, Creepy Luke, and Hester, Hester's the person I'm most interested in seeing.

[Rob Mahoney]

You want to know her story?

[Joanna Robinson]

Oh, my God. Yeah.

[Rob Mahoney]

What's Hester's whole deal?

[Joanna Robinson]

Anna, Deborah. Like, my God, I love her.

[Rob Mahoney]

So your perspective, generally speaking. Daddy Katie, good. Daddy Luke, Consent King Hester, the woman who could have saved Max from a life of abuse but chose not to.

[Joanna Robinson]

An icon.

[Rob Mahoney]

I just want to know what she's up to.

[Joanna Robinson]

And I got. All right, so we get the boat. It's called the Galilee. Do you remember? Did I talk to you about the name of the boat in the 90s?

[Rob Mahoney]

No. What was it?

[Joanna Robinson]

It's Moana.

[Ad Voice]

What?

[Joanna Robinson]

I'm not. I'm not kidding. It's called Moana.

[Rob Mahoney]

Just want to know how far it goes.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah. Nick Nolte's been standing at the edge of the water as long as he can remember.

[Rob Mahoney]

I haven't even seen the animated Moana, but that song goes. Are you kidding me?

[Joanna Robinson]

You should watch that movie. It's actually great.

[Rob Mahoney]

I am. Look, I'm just a sucker for the very specific Disney. Like, I am at the threshold about to embark on the journey, and I want song. Yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

You love Go the Distance from Hercules.

[Rob Mahoney]

Oh, my God. Do I love Go the distance?

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Rob Mahoney]

I've often dreamed, Joe, of a far off place.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Rob Mahoney]

Let's go.

[Joanna Robinson]

And I want song. That's like Santa Fe and Newsies.

[Rob Mahoney]

It's very true.

[Joanna Robinson]

Is an I want song.

[Rob Mahoney]

Very much so.

[Joanna Robinson]

All right. So creepy. Lou, Crystal, Katie. The. This boat is called the Galilee. Very biblical. How do you feel about seeing a houseboat in a Cape Fear story? Are we. Is this the. Where everything's going to go down at the end of the day?

[Rob Mahoney]

Always welcome. I kind of think it might be a little bait and switch, though.

[Joanna Robinson]

We're Going to zag.

[Rob Mahoney]

I think we're going to zag a little bit.

[Joanna Robinson]

Okay.

[Rob Mahoney]

This felt like maybe a one time location, although it might come up and be relevant. Clearly Rey was murdered here, so there's a lot happening.

[Joanna Robinson]

Where's the body?

[Rob Mahoney]

It's in the trunk. Oh, I think.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah, we did get that. That sort of Edgar Wright sort of like smash cut to closing the trunk.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah, that wakes up Natalie.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah. You think he's in the trunk?

[Rob Mahoney]

I would assume. Or maybe he took a shovel or something out of the trunk.

[Joanna Robinson]

I guess, yeah.

[Rob Mahoney]

Here's my question about the decomposition of a dead body. Something that maybe all of our friends who know so much about scopolamine may have more experience with.

[Joanna Robinson]

I think those brain surgeons are still thinking about emailing us about brain surgery.

[Rob Mahoney]

They certainly might. If you were taking a four to five hour road trip as this seems to be, would that thing start to smell in the trunk?

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah, in the summer, southern heat.

[Rob Mahoney]

What's AC though, in the trunk? Well, kind of.

[Joanna Robinson]

Does the trunk get ac?

[Rob Mahoney]

Well, not directly, but I think it's in there. I don't think in that model of car. It does seem like an older car.

[Joanna Robinson]

You're right. I don't think so.

[Rob Mahoney]

So it's just bacon back there.

[Joanna Robinson]

Is there ice back there?

[Rob Mahoney]

Maybe that's what he was putting in the trunk.

[Joanna Robinson]

I don't, I don't think that. I don't think we're making it back to Savannah without some sort of suspicious odor coming out.

[Rob Mahoney]

In that case, the body cannot be in the trunk.

[Joanna Robinson]

I don't know.

[Rob Mahoney]

Did he feed it to the gators?

[Joanna Robinson]

Oh, just like tossed it in the river.

[Rob Mahoney]

That seems sloppy for Max KD though. He did. He didn't have time. Okay, so we do know he comes back. His shirt is off now. So maybe he did dig a hole or maybe it was covered in blood. I don't know exactly what happened.

[Joanna Robinson]

He doesn't seem smeared enough with dirt to have dug a grave of some kind.

[Rob Mahoney]

He doesn't have the Zendaya and euphoria like I've been digging this ditch and am now a walking dirt clod vibe.

[Joanna Robinson]

Not even that like sort of fetching cheekbonesque stripe of dirt that people often get in these situations.

[Rob Mahoney]

That's what the actor's request.

[Joanna Robinson]

Can you give me some contour? Yeah. Where is the body? Thinkofabykaratgmail.com if you think you. If it's just in the trunk, that's interesting.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yes.

[Joanna Robinson]

Then where's it going to land?

[Rob Mahoney]

Well, here's the Other question that I had is who could possibly connect the dots of what happened here? Natalie has been passed out in the front seat. The murder weapon is one of the Bowden's guns that is in their gun safe. That theoretically no one else has access to. Bad decisions. Very bad. There's one person, though, who could have seen it, and it's Crystal. Crystal Katie, who was warned by her. By her dad to run away or hide or whatever. Yeah, clearly it was close enough that the beer was still cold and still condensating, as you said.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah, she's.

[Rob Mahoney]

I think she's around here somewhere and

[Joanna Robinson]

she's just like in. In the. In the underbrush.

[Rob Mahoney]

In the underbrush. Like maybe a compartment of the boat. I don't know exactly, but I feel like this show would not be able to resist the metatextual payoff of Juliet Lewis getting her revenge on Max Katie.

[Joanna Robinson]

I'm excited. I miss her. I'm excited for more Juliet Lewis. I. I was bummed that she was not at the boat.

[Rob Mahoney]

Did not appear in this episode.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah, I really wanted to.

[Rob Mahoney]

Well, other than when Ray shows up to the woman who owned the station wagon previously and poses as an insurance salesman or adjuster or whatever, he could be entitled. Clearly that works pretty well, cuz Ray's

[Joanna Robinson]

competent at his job.

[Rob Mahoney]

He is competent. That said, I know she gets the hundred, so she's not asking a lot of questions at this point, but this guy's like, I'm an insurance salesman. And also, do you know this woman who. I just said I don't know who she is before, but I have a photo.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah, she's like, let's see, mask, rain slicker, hood up, a bit of hair. Sure, that's her.

[Rob Mahoney]

That's the fruit loop. I know.

[Joanna Robinson]

That's definitely her. I love that woman. I. I'm really bummed that Rey is dead. I would watch a Rey prequel where we get to see him like, driving around the south and like breaking and

[Rob Mahoney]

entering for good, you know, what are we calling it?

[Joanna Robinson]

Oh, gosh.

[Rob Mahoney]

Nope, Rollins, in order. What's the pun here? There's something. There's something here. We just gotta workshop.

[Joanna Robinson]

Ray of Justice. I don't know.

[Rob Mahoney]

Ray of justice is pretty good.

[Joanna Robinson]

I think it's pretty bad.

[Rob Mahoney]

Prestigetv, thinkofabycarrot. Sorry. Prestigetvpify.com or think of a baby carrot.

[Joanna Robinson]

Gmail if you're listening, we're available to write the Ray Rollins prequel.

[Rob Mahoney]

This is free ip, Absolutely, actually. But the prequel is about him getting out of prison.

[Joanna Robinson]

No. Well, it's both there's like. Because that can be involved in it.

[Rob Mahoney]

There's.

[Joanna Robinson]

There's him being competent at his job, doing all the things that he does that are. That skates the edge of right and wrong. But there's flashback to when he was in prison and got him there.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yes.

[Joanna Robinson]

And perhaps he has, like, a guy he knew and they dug coal together. Just something to think about.

[Rob Mahoney]

I mean, full justified reboot with Jamie Hector.

[Joanna Robinson]

Why not?

[Rob Mahoney]

I'm in for that when you watch it. Plus, I. Look, I'm always in for a backstory as the sum of all the influences that make a person. I do kind of like that we're getting that with Max Katie, where it's like we've seen who he was in prison and kind of like this religious aspect of his personality that has sort of taken over. We. We're seeing now with his dad, like, the whole everything. You know, I knew first that his dad drops on him. I mean, incredible line.

[Joanna Robinson]

Really good.

[Rob Mahoney]

So, yeah, like, I like that we're seeing all of his tricks kind of turned against him and seeing their origin story, too.

[Joanna Robinson]

It's pronounced again,

[Rob Mahoney]

you know, I deeply apologize.

[Joanna Robinson]

Okay. Before I. I'm. I. I missed this part when he gives her the peach to eat. And something we've celebrated is that there isn't, like, creepy sexual vibes between Max and Natalie. It's like. But they couldn't help themselves. When he's like, is that good? And she's like, georgia peach. I'm like, what. What was the tagine you put on that particular library? Like, what the fuck was that?

[Rob Mahoney]

First of all, I don't like the spice you put on that in particular.

[Joanna Robinson]

But Tajin, like, anyway, Georgia peach. What the fuck are we talking about? Natalie? That was so weird and flirty inside of the episode. It might be your dad inside the episode where she's just like, are you my dad? You know, like, very curious to me.

[Rob Mahoney]

All of the lines are getting crossed here, as it seems they do in the Katie household.

[Joanna Robinson]

What did you make of the baptism scene?

[Rob Mahoney]

It did make me think about last week's episode and the ending a little bit different. You. You asked me about that shot we got at the end of episode six, Possum of the Red Eye.

[Joanna Robinson]

Right.

[Rob Mahoney]

Like, oh, right, right. And you. You asked me, like, who do you think this is? What is it now? I think it's definitely Zach. Where it feels like that is Zach's eye kind of turning red.

[Joanna Robinson]

Right.

[Rob Mahoney]

Like coming over to the Max Katie side. And this is sort of the same thing. Like a Dunk and a baptism. And now Natalie is. Her situation is more complicated.

[Joanna Robinson]

Well, she's like, I feel the same. And he's like, because you are who you've always been.

[Rob Mahoney]

My daughter. My biological daughter. Here's. Here's question number one. Do we think that's actually true?

[Joanna Robinson]

I think it being revealed. Revealed in episode seven makes me think maybe it's not true. Right.

[Rob Mahoney]

I don't even know what Max knows too. Like, he could believe it to be true. He could also be giving her the hair just as like a. Go chase this down and see how it makes things messy.

[Joanna Robinson]

Do you know how to, like, get a DNA testing? Do you know how to, like, Never done it. Who do you mail your. The beard hair to?

[Rob Mahoney]

Apparently not 23andMe. That doesn't seem like the answer.

[Joanna Robinson]

I. I don't know. I kind of think it's not, though. Yeah. To your point, like, if he wasn't sure it was him, would he give her the beard hair?

[Rob Mahoney]

I think he might do it anyway. But yeah, I mean, to answer your question, Joe, you know, I'm not even like, putting my fingerprint on my phone.

[Joanna Robinson]

I do know that the idea of

[Rob Mahoney]

I'm sending my and someone else's DNA into a corporation. Simply not happening.

[Joanna Robinson]

One more thing. I want to circle back to this Ted Levine who's also. He's also wearing a green polo. Green polo's on both the bad dads of this episode. He's going for the. The Gilmore Girl. I need dinner with you once, once a month.

[Rob Mahoney]

I didn't realize that. Who proposes it in Gilmore Girls?

[Joanna Robinson]

Oh, Emily Gilmore. It's the whole start of the Gilmore Girls is that Lorelei Gilmore is estranged from her parents, but she needs money to send Rory to a good school. So she asks her very rich parents for monies, and they're like, in exchange, you have to come and have family dinner with us every Sunday.

[Rob Mahoney]

But only her. Not Rory.

[Joanna Robinson]

No, Rory has to come too.

[Rob Mahoney]

Rory has to come too.

[Joanna Robinson]

They want to know their granddaughter.

[Rob Mahoney]

Mandating a granddaughter's appearance.

[Joanna Robinson]

Absolutely.

[Rob Mahoney]

That's a big ask.

[Joanna Robinson]

And so the friction between the generation of Gilmores is. Is really the meat and potatoes of what Gilmore Girls is. But. But I. I feel like Anna's shitty dad has been watching Gilmore Girls. He's like, you know what I'll do? Do a full Emily Gilmore and I'll demand a. A regular dinner in exchange.

[Rob Mahoney]

I think there's a lot we can learn in terms of plotting and scheming from the Gilmore Girls.

[Joanna Robinson]

Absolutely. Emily Gilmore is like Hester, an icon. Do you think this is going to go well with Anna's dad planting these drugs across the street?

[Rob Mahoney]

No. This is such a bad plan.

[Joanna Robinson]

This is a garbage plan. The whole wait for Rey to get back. He won't be coming back. But if. If you were, like, waiting for someone to break and enter and plant something, wouldn't you ask for Rey, the guy, you know, who does this for you and is trustworthy?

[Rob Mahoney]

Oh, you mean as opposed to the untraceable alternative of having your own biological father do it?

[Joanna Robinson]

Speaking of DNA reports, no one could

[Rob Mahoney]

possibly connect this to us. I think. Look, I think it's a good instinct to stop Tom from just running over there and planting himself. That's a bad idea.

[Joanna Robinson]

I actually think Tom would have done a better, better job than what I assume is going to happen.

[Rob Mahoney]

He's going to be on his own. Security cameras walking out with drugs in hand and probably on Max. Katie, Security cameras planting the drugs.

[Joanna Robinson]

But they have the WI fi jammer. It's probably evidence now, but now that they know that the WI Fi jammer exists, I would go out and get my own WI Fi jammer.

[Rob Mahoney]

What did you.

[Joanna Robinson]

The jammer.

[Rob Mahoney]

Can you jam a jammer?

[Joanna Robinson]

I would think so.

[Rob Mahoney]

I feel like if you could do that, then in the Matrix, the sentinels would have emped the mp, you know? I'm saying, like, you can't jam the jammer.

[Joanna Robinson]

There's still time for another Matrix sequel in which that happens.

[Rob Mahoney]

I'm. I'm available for the writers room for that. What did you feel about the WI Fi chamber being covered in, like, tasteful teen stickers?

[Joanna Robinson]

Honestly, I loved it.

[Rob Mahoney]

I couldn't make out what they were.

[Joanna Robinson]

She's just a girl.

[Rob Mahoney]

She is just a girl.

[Joanna Robinson]

Oh, did you freeze Ray Mahoney? Zach's bedroom? We got, like, more shots of posters and, I mean, what an incredible bedroom Zack has. Oh, my God, the exposed brick. He's got a whole, like, city over in the corner. Like, what are we. What are we complaining about?

[Rob Mahoney]

Zach, I would kill for that bedroom right now. I would. Very nice. I did not. Because, honestly, we had seen a lot of his bedroom already. What I did, freeze frame, was when Natalie returns from Paul's house and gives Anna an ominous call about, like, her parentage and trying to press Anna for the.

[Joanna Robinson]

Oh, she's like another flask of booze deep into her afternoon drinking.

[Rob Mahoney]

She's in her cups.

[Joanna Robinson]

Natalie, that's not water.

[Rob Mahoney]

It's not water. She has, like, a bunch of stuff splayed out over the table. Oh.

[Joanna Robinson]

Oh, yeah. Family photos.

[Rob Mahoney]

Family photos, mostly. So photos of, like, young. I would say, like, Enchanted Era, Amy Adams among that myth.

[Joanna Robinson]

Some even earlier, I think.

[Rob Mahoney]

You think so? And then obviously some that they staged for the purpose.

[Joanna Robinson]

They're like, hey, is there a photo of you drinking in a bar? We're going to need that.

[Rob Mahoney]

Let's just. Let's just pull that up for the archival.

[Joanna Robinson]

You in your 20s drinking in a bar. Find us that photo.

[Rob Mahoney]

Let's find it. But two things that I think if this season ends up as Anna fears and dreads with her kids trying to. Like, someone trying to take her kids away from her in a legal sense, because she is abusing substances, because she has this history of alcoholism, whatever. Two pieces of evidence on this table I think are really going to work against her. One, a ticket stub to a Duke football game, which I think is abusive parenting. Would not recommend it to a ticket stub to an Alabama Shakes concert. That will not help your case in court.

[Joanna Robinson]

Tell me about. I. I saw that, and I was like, I feel like Rob's gonna have an opinion on this. You're anti Alabama Shakes.

[Rob Mahoney]

I just. I'm a little baffled at who brought who to that.

[Joanna Robinson]

I think Tom brought Anna to the Alabama Shakes concert.

[Rob Mahoney]

Oh, I thought this. I thought this might be Natalie's stuff.

[Joanna Robinson]

We don't know that because it's like, family photos.

[Rob Mahoney]

Okay. Actually, it does check out that Tom and Anna would go. Okay. I was just worried that they had taken the kids.

[Joanna Robinson]

No, I don't think so.

[Rob Mahoney]

They better not have.

[Joanna Robinson]

What's, like, an absolute deal breaker? Ticket, concert. Ticket stub. If you find it among, like, people's

[Rob Mahoney]

possessions, it's a great question. The problem is, like, look, there are ethical answers to this, but I'm gonna be honest. People are going to those shows. I get a lot of, like, Kanye Instagram stories in my life being shared with me. So clearly, you can't cut everyone out for the people that they enjoy listening to.

[Ad Voice]

Yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

You're like Chris Brown fans. I'm a fan of you, but on.

[Rob Mahoney]

I did not say that. That's you into a microphone. Clip it, ship it, put on social feed. Who. Yeah. What taste would be so offensive that it would be an actual deal breaker?

[Joanna Robinson]

Is it like Jimmy Buffett? Are you, like, anti Margaritaville? I'm. I'm pro Margaritaville, personally.

[Rob Mahoney]

How are you pro Margaritaville but anti Randy Newman?

[Joanna Robinson]

Oh, that's like a.

[Rob Mahoney]

That's an overlapping vendor.

[Joanna Robinson]

Why have Mike. Randy Newman takes onto the microphone? I don't think I've because I find them offensive. Randy Newman is horrible. Jimmy Buffett is a king.

[Rob Mahoney]

I have nothing against Jimmy Buffett, but they're of a piece, are they not?

[Joanna Robinson]

If Randy Newman had a chain of restaurants based off of his, you know, most popular hit, I would be supportive of.

[Rob Mahoney]

So your problem is that he's not capitalistic enough.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah, I love capitalism.

[Rob Mahoney]

You do love us. A small to medium sized business owner.

[Joanna Robinson]

I'm just, like, looking for my lost shaker of salt. Yeah. What else we got to say about this episode?

[Rob Mahoney]

It's a great question.

[Joanna Robinson]

Is this good television? Rob, how are you feeling?

[Rob Mahoney]

I often wonder. Yeah, is this good podcasting that I'm certain it's not. The show is just objectively insane, but the things that work, really, really work and the rest of it is stupid or confusing or just enjoyable enough to keep me tethered along at every single step.

[Joanna Robinson]

What performance did you enjoy most in this episode?

[Rob Mahoney]

Bardem.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Rob Mahoney]

Is it.

[Joanna Robinson]

Is the answer any ever? Anything other than Bardem?

[Rob Mahoney]

I think it can. It can waver into other things. Like whenever Juliette Lewis is coming on screen, she has such a weird, nervy energy that's super fun.

[Joanna Robinson]

She's so good.

[Rob Mahoney]

I think you're right to isolate Jamie Hector and how much we're going to miss him from a performance aspect in this episode. Not just the character, but he has, like. It's such a weird thing coming from where he started on the Wire, where it was, yes, a calm character and a controlling character, but of such a different energy, totally different menace from, like, the reassurance he has eased into later in his career.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah, I will definitely miss him. Other than that, like, I would say the only other person who can steal a scene from me off and on is Lily Coleus, who plays Natalie.

[Joanna Robinson]

I agree.

[Rob Mahoney]

I think she's been really, really great. And their road trip sequence, the, like, she's feeling herself, she's feeling liberated and honestly, very true to life of like, the first road trip you get to drive for yourself is such a formative experience and him dangling that carrot in a way that he knows Natalie won't be able to resist. I just think she plays the full range of skepticism and, like, wanting to see the good in Max in a way that is really compelling.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah, I think she's fantastic, but it's like, it's Bardem's show and I think without him here, there's no point in doing it. To be honest with you, like, I can't think of another performer I would want to see in this role and the show doesn't work if you don't have, like, a sort of elemental force playing Max Cady.

[Rob Mahoney]

To be fair, the same is true of all the movies like that. That is a role you have to nail in a very specific magnetic way.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Rob Mahoney]

And they did that. Regardless of what you may think of the rest of the show or whether it works for you or not, or whether there's too many tow jars involved. Like, I think they got the casting right on. Max just absolutely nailed it.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Rob Mahoney]

One quick thing.

[Joanna Robinson]

Sure.

[Rob Mahoney]

Because they threw it out there and I didn't know what to make of it. Is after they leave the hospital to talk to the doctor about Zach's involuntary psychold and the scopolamine and all that.

[Joanna Robinson]

And the zombification.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yes.

[Joanna Robinson]

Of Zach Bowden.

[Rob Mahoney]

He's been brainwashed. Not clinically, but technically. Tom tells Anna this dream he had.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah. Yeah. Where they're on the roof of, like, the parking garage and the sky is very blue, and maybe they're in the volume. It looked a little weird, but it looked very odd. Yeah.

[Rob Mahoney]

But you got, like, a weird drone shot, too. So I think it was on location. I think it just was captured strangely, maybe purposely. Maybe.

[Joanna Robinson]

So it was color that way. Yeah. Yeah.

[Rob Mahoney]

So the dream he reveals is that in his dream, he's 14 years old. His dad tells him his brother's going to die over Thanksgiving break in a car crash. His mom agrees. He's, like, panicking that they're not doing anything about it. He looks to his brother, and his brother, he cuts off, is my son.

[Joanna Robinson]

Right. So there's three options here, because he almost. Like, I watched that multiple times because I wasn't certain. And Anna seemed to know, like, what his answer would be, or she, at least was, in classic Anna fashion, deeply incurious about what the. Where he cut himself off.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

Was my son. Was myself.

[Rob Mahoney]

Would you say myself? I think you would say it was me. But he says my. It was my.

[Joanna Robinson]

Oh, it was my.

[Rob Mahoney]

So I think it wouldn't.

[Joanna Robinson]

Not my. Myself.

[Rob Mahoney]

I think it wouldn't be myself.

[Joanna Robinson]

Okay. So we're taking that off the board. So either my son or my fa. He started to say, like, f. I think his father. He almost says, but his father. I know. Yeah. But it's dream logic.

[Rob Mahoney]

It is dream logic.

[Joanna Robinson]

I was very baffled by that cutoff because I did not feel like it was clear what he was going to say.

[Rob Mahoney]

Nor did I.

[Joanna Robinson]

And I'm like, it'll be a weird thing to come back and clarify this. It can only be. But, like, why would he say my. Why wouldn't he just say it was Zach or our son?

[Rob Mahoney]

That would make sense, you know?

[Joanna Robinson]

And why wouldn't he just say it was Zach? Because I'm worried about Zach's mental health the way that I worried about my brother's mental health. Don't worry about it. He didn't hang himself. He died in a car accident. It's not the same. But, like, when's that information coming out? I don't know. Yeah, I thought that was a really weird scene.

[Rob Mahoney]

Very odd. Anytime a show makes a point to explain a dream, I'm like, okay, you're telling us something, but I have no idea what this was about.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah, very interesting.

[Rob Mahoney]

I would say. The only other thing of note from this sequence is this is also when Natalie calls Anna asking about who her real father is. And as soon as Natalie asks it, Anna gives the quick, like, look to see if Tom is already in the car. Before I start answering this question, do

[Joanna Robinson]

you know how insulting that is to ask your mother? She took a DNA test.

[Rob Mahoney]

Turns out it's quite insulting.

[Joanna Robinson]

Where are you on the question of is Max Cady Natalie's father?

[Rob Mahoney]

I'm with you. That narratively, this early in the season feels too early to introduce it if it's true.

[Joanna Robinson]

Right.

[Rob Mahoney]

There is one twist yet to come, and maybe the twist is just that it's Tom. That it is actually Tom and not Paul, as they suspected initially.

[Joanna Robinson]

How nice is that? Nice. I don't want it to be Paul for sure, and I don't want it to be Max. So of those options, yeah, Tom is nicest.

[Rob Mahoney]

He is nicest. But that also makes it extra messy because that would mean that the whole trial was corrupted from the beginning.

[Joanna Robinson]

Buddy. It's already quite legally messy. We don't even know what they did yet. You don't really know how they legally colluded to put Max Katie away.

[Rob Mahoney]

But what else could it be other than that's what.

[Joanna Robinson]

That's what Hester was saying. Right. Like, I know what you did because you were ashamed of wanting him. Right?

[Rob Mahoney]

Right.

[Joanna Robinson]

That's what she said. And Hester is, if nothing else, if not a truth teller. So, you know something I think about. Do you want to go to the board?

[Rob Mahoney]

I would love to.

[Joanna Robinson]

All right. As per usual, we have come up with some cars that we want to add to our extremely legible, completely normal looking conspiracy board that we've put together for Cape Fear.

[Rob Mahoney]

I've genuinely never been more proud of any piece of work I've ever been a part of. So thank you for. I mean, really. You're the driving force of this project.

[Joanna Robinson]

Do you want to. We updated a few cards that are already up here.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yes.

[Joanna Robinson]

Juliet Lewis's card now has a character name. Crystal Katy, of course.

[Rob Mahoney]

What else do we update this like? Ray, obviously. Rest in peace.

[Joanna Robinson]

Oh, rest in peace Ray. Ray got the red X treatment. The gun safe.

[Rob Mahoney]

0702702.

[Joanna Robinson]

That's the. Do you think it's just 0702 or her or the year as well?

[Rob Mahoney]

Oh, it was just 0702. I saw her.

[Joanna Robinson]

Oh, you saw her do it. Okay. 0702. That's the combination of the gun safe. So now we can all access the gun safe anytime you want.

[Rob Mahoney]

There were several handguns in there.

[Joanna Robinson]

Wow. All right. Anything else?

[Rob Mahoney]

I think those are the only ones we updated this week.

[Joanna Robinson]

Let's talk about things we're going to add. Well, we took a few down that we're going to replace with something else. So we're starting with scopolamine, AKA Devil's Breath, the very specific mind control drug that is driving a lot of the machinations on this show.

[Rob Mahoney]

Makes me very uncomfortable that it exists, that people know so much about it. But not as uncomfortable as Daddy Katie himself. Just a real. A real gem of a man. Ron Perlman.

[Joanna Robinson]

And you know what makes me believe in love? The icon. Hester and Daddy Katie. They're still in love. And you love to see it.

[Rob Mahoney]

They are in love. I wish I could say this has anything to do with love, but it doesn't. The Bowden handgun.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Rob Mahoney]

Was in the safe. Taken out of the safe by Natalie. Used to murder Rey in cold blood.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Rob Mahoney]

And presumably put right back in the safe.

[Joanna Robinson]

Right back in the safe. Gunpowder residue. I don't know how well that would

[Rob Mahoney]

be on Max's hands, I would think, but the ballistics would match that exact gun.

[Joanna Robinson]

But, like, I don't understand how ballistics. Like, you know the exact gun, but do you know, like, the exact gun, but you just know the make and model of the gun?

[Rob Mahoney]

I think you would know the make and model.

[Joanna Robinson]

But if also it's like, doesn't that look like a. And he's got, like, three of them

[Rob Mahoney]

in there, but no one knows that it's missing one bullet. One bullet.

[Joanna Robinson]

Right. Maybe one bullet.

[Rob Mahoney]

Actually, no. He shot him like, three times. Three bullets.

[Joanna Robinson]

Let go, let go. So now we've. So we've got the handgun. We put the shotgun up last week.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yes.

[Joanna Robinson]

Camera. Where it Is. And then the gun safe is up there. So we just got guns aplenty, guns a blazing.

[Rob Mahoney]

It's that kind of show.

[Joanna Robinson]

Okay, great. Oh, there's the shotgun. Okay, Bluff's Point, location wise, this is where the baptism happens. Is where the giant cross is on Bluff's Point.

[Rob Mahoney]

Do we return to Bluff's Point, do you think?

[Joanna Robinson]

I think we have to.

[Rob Mahoney]

I hope we do. Because I would love more metaphorical baptism in addition to the very literal baptisms that occur on this show. But we're baptizing. Baptizing ourselves literally every week, frankly, around here.

[Joanna Robinson]

Speaking of stuff with water, Max Katie can't swim. Or can he? But maybe he can't swim. It's a very like, beefy arm, but like, he's got the guns. So he does, like representing.

[Rob Mahoney]

And he's flexing him yet again.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah, he really is. Can Max Katie swim? We don't know. But for right now, I'm gonna take him as word.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah. Joja Peach. It's stone fruit season, baby.

[Joanna Robinson]

We both bought peaches this week.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah, get familiar.

[Joanna Robinson]

What's your favorite? Oh, you like to bake with peaches.

[Rob Mahoney]

I mean, I just love a peach by itself. No drugs.

[Joanna Robinson]

Added peach in a salad. Like a. Like a savory salad, but like some peaches in there.

[Rob Mahoney]

Peach and goat cheese.

[Joanna Robinson]

Oh, Elite buddy character actor Patrick Fishler.

[Rob Mahoney]

That's Dr. Patrick Fisher to you.

[Joanna Robinson]

I will change it. Dr. Patrick Fisher MD well, while we're introducing new characters.

[Rob Mahoney]

Your consent. King Creepy Luke.

[Joanna Robinson]

I can't believe you. You wanted to do that card. He doesn't get a full size card, Paul. He just gets a little one because that's what he deserves.

[Rob Mahoney]

He's sad. He's down bad. I don't want to spend any more time with Paul than we have to. We have another addition card in the vein of we added traitor to peanut butter now many last week.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Rob Mahoney]

To add to Crystal Katie Juliet Lewis. Fruit loop.

[Joanna Robinson]

Should we put a trader card on Zach?

[Rob Mahoney]

We might need to just like walked

[Joanna Robinson]

his ass across the street and said, this is my dad now.

[Rob Mahoney]

And it wasn't even very hard. Little scopolamine goes a long way.

[Joanna Robinson]

Glitch scription. You know what I was thinking of the Buffy Vampire Slayer episode Helpless. Because that vampire in that episode is like, my pills, my pills he needs. And it comes back. So like, will Max, you know, be like, my pills, my pills and Anna's like these little things.

[Rob Mahoney]

So you think the final boss boss is Max in a dungeon and meanwhile,

[Joanna Robinson]

with a very long spoon.

[Rob Mahoney]

No One has any guns nor any magic to protect them. It's tough, honestly. A horrifying episode of Buffy the Aggro Tom footage. Yeah, we didn't really talk about this much during the episode, but there are now two different pieces of video evidence that Tom is just beating the out

[Joanna Robinson]

of people that he's like, I don't lift these weights for nothing.

[Rob Mahoney]

No, this is not cosmetic. These are functional muscles. And I suggest. I. I think they will be used against him at some point.

[Joanna Robinson]

Again, last but not least, the Galilee. The boat. No cell service at the Galilee. We did not point that out, but that is very important. Rhae's phone call came through garbled, so they didn't get all the information. But if someone else goes out to the Galilee, they're also not going to have cell service. So I think that's just something important to establish.

[Rob Mahoney]

Absolutely. It is not least, it's also not exactly last because, I mean, your beautiful artwork has featured all over the board, including the gallery itself. But we have our first photo card to put on, if you can even call it a card. It is a giant, grainy photograph of a possum who did not appear this week, but I am always wondering about its whereabouts.

[Joanna Robinson]

Where is the possum?

[Rob Mahoney]

Will someone account for it?

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah. Grainy footage of the possum. Thanks to our producer, Kai Grady.

[Rob Mahoney]

Just tremendous stuff.

[Joanna Robinson]

Really great work.

[Rob Mahoney]

I think when all is said and done, when we put Cape Fear to bed and we decided what we really think of it, the thing that will stick with me the most are the

[Joanna Robinson]

possums you met along the way.

[Rob Mahoney]

It's Tom either getting thrown through the drywall or bursting through the drywall. And then Anna being like, it was

[Joanna Robinson]

just a possum, just a little possum. It was just a possum pinning for the devil. All right, that has been Cape Fear, episode seven. Devereaux Devrou. We'll be back with episode eight. Once again, send us your emails. Even if we don't get to them, we will eventually catch back up and get to address all of your emails. Thanks to Kai Grady. Thanks to Jacob Cornette. Thanks to Dev Ronaldo. Thanks to this batshit show. Yeah. Having a great summer.

[Rob Mahoney]

Thanks to polluted rivers.

[Joanna Robinson]

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Rob Mahoney]

Thanks to scopolamine, obviously.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah, yeah. No, thank you. Thanks to you, Max, Katie, for killing Ray Rollins. We don't like it. We don't know, where's the bot? Where's the possum? Where's the body? These are the questions we're asking Stay tuned next week. Bye.

[Rob Mahoney]

Hey, it's Ryan Reynolds here for Mint Mobile. Now, I was looking for fun ways to tell you that Mint's offer of unlimited Premium Wireless for $15 a month is back. So I thought it would be fun if we made $15 bills, but it turns out that's very illegal. So there goes my big idea for the commercial. Give it a [e-mail] Switch upfront payment

[Joanna Robinson]

$45 for three months, $90 for six months or $180 for a 12 month plan. Required $15 per month equivalent taxes and fees. Extra initial plan term only greater than 50 gigabytes. Me slow when network is busy.

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[Rob Mahoney]

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[Rob Mahoney]

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