‘Cape Fear’ Episode 8: Going Under

Summary

‘Cape Fear’ Episode 8: Going Under — The Prestige TV Podcast Recap

Episode Overview

This lively, detail-packed recap of ‘Cape Fear’ episode 8—led by Joanna Robinson and Rob Mahoney—dives deep into the show's latest shocks, character turns, and dark humor. Joined by listener emails and running gags, Joanna and Rob dissect the fallout from last week's revelations, dead bodies in pools, and a family in ever-increasing peril, all with their trademark blend of analytical sharpness and winking irreverence.

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Main Theme

The central focus: The Bowdoin family is unraveling after the discovery of Ray Rollins’s body, while Anna, Tom, and Natalie each face crisis points—jail, guilt, gunplay, and the chilling continued game-playing of Max Cady. The hosts dig into the show's depiction of trauma, shame, secrets as weapons, and the show's blend of melodrama and horror.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Aftermath of Ray's Death & The Pool Discovery

Timestamp: 13:29–18:00

• Natalie finds pieces of Ray’s body in the pool, triggering a horrifying and visually striking sequence praised for Steven Williams’s direction.
  • “This is the best use of the photo neg. Natalie, toss her out in the water and it's all black and she's screaming. I thought that was fantastic. Steven Williams, get the water guy. Looks great.” — Joanna [18:11]
• Discussion of the logistics and plausibility of disposing a body this way, with Rob referencing "The Americans" for body logistics.
• The pool, once a symbol of suburban safety, is now a site of trauma — “I think that swimming pool is done so for them.” — Joanna [16:59]

2. The Bowdoin Family in Crisis

Timestamp: 14:13–15:37; 46:11–48:24

• Zach is institution-bound, Natalie is arrested, Tom is imprisoned covering for Natalie, and Anna is left spiraling and (by episode’s end) arming herself for a final confrontation.
  • “By the end of this episode…it’s the Anna show, I would think. Everyone else is in an institution, and Anna’s on the road.” — Joanna [15:08]
• Tom’s incompetence with covering up the murder weapon and surveillance footage is mocked throughout.
  • “He is dialed in. He can't dial it down…this series wants me to think…he is the world's dumbest prosecutor.” — Rob [04:20]
• Anna’s decision to visit Max in the hospital is universally panned as a disastrous move, especially under camera surveillance.

3. Anna, Tom, and Past Trauma

Timestamp: 33:00–38:31

• Anna’s secret shame and the root of her concealment finally come to light: her possible assault by Max Cady, the implications of her blackouts, and how shame and trauma ripple through the family.
  • “If we lived in a better society, she should not feel shame around [the assault], and it has come to haunt her.” — Joanna [36:34]
  • “How do you confront the thing that you don't even know yourself to be like 100% factually true?...the fact that she can't even say confidently that an encounter happened.” — Rob [38:22]
• The show is contrasted with earlier versions of ‘Cape Fear,’ noting the evolution of the trauma and villain dynamic, now centralized on Anna’s inner life.

4. Natalie and Nevaeh's Prison Confrontation

Timestamp: 21:44–23:36

• Natalie provokes Nevaeh in prison. Nevaeh’s biting, jealousy-laced rant culminates in the memorable quote:
  • “I didn’t get you pregnant, did I?” — Nevaeh [22:35]
• This sets up lingering tension and hints at a possible "Shiv Fest" between the two.
• The themes of misplaced loyalty and provoked violence are revisited.

5. Max Cady’s Manipulations and the Nature of Evil

Timestamp: 43:07–44:43

• Max manipulates Natalie into shooting him “where there are no organs.”
• His attempt to hold Anna’s shame over Natalie is undercut by Anna’s earlier confession: “Anna already came clean to Natalie about this. And also, you don't—she does not look like the villain of that particular scenario.” — Joanna [43:45]
• Discussion on how Max uses secrets and shame as his weapons, and how open truth could neutralize him.

6. Listener Emails & Running Bits

Scattered Throughout (02:32–11:41, 54:07–55:00)

• Listener Emma’s haunted baby carrots photo sparks carrot-based horror jokes.
• Ongoing debate over Max Cady’s eye color (“green or blue?”) and the show’s use of green/blue theming.
• Car talk: Is Anna’s Hyundai a signal of humility for her legal clients?
• Discussions of prison religions, brain surgery facts, Mary Steenburgen's sudden music-writing ability, and real-world implications.
• The continued saga of the dog Romeo, the Bowdoin’s pet peanut butter (and “Money” language clarifications), and whether Anna’s family should ever get another pet: “These people suck, okay? They're bad pet owners.” — Rob [13:20]

7. Capsule Reviews of the Show’s Melodramatic Elements

Timestamp: 32:33–33:30

• The hosts draw parallels between ‘Cape Fear’ and ‘Glee’ style writing: “If we need something to happen, it has to happen in that exact same episode.”
• Joanna and Rob critique the show’s habit of undercutting its own dramatic setups with overwrought or rushed reveals.

8. The Conspiracy Corkboard Segment

Timestamp: 54:15–57:55

• The ever-growing “corkboard of chaos” is updated with new plot threads and notable quotes, such as:
  • “I didn’t get you pregnant, did I?” (Nevaeh)
  • “I missed.” (Natalie, after the shooting)
  • The storm—anticipation for a final rainy showdown
  • Zach’s possibly hidden meds
  • The family’s arsenal of seemingly endless guns

9. Notable Quotes & Outstanding Comedy

• "Rest in pieces?" — Rob, joking about Ray Rollins’s fate [17:19]

• “Charcuterie… Charcuterie Ray.” — Joanna’s groan-worthy, corpse-related pun [17:24–17:59]

• "You will start to feel like yourself again. Yeah. But what self. Oh, brother. Come on." — Rob, on heavy-handed dialogue [16:07]

• "She's a little all over the place this episode, but I think it's a little understandable considering she found a dismembered corpse in her swimming pool." — Rob [16:59]

• "Do you think when the cops were like, 'Don't leave town,' was that a soft suggestion, or was that a real suggestion?" — Rob [50:35]

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Notable Segments & Timestamps

| Segment / Quote | Time | |-------------------------------|-----------| | Pool horror scene praise | 18:11 | | Analysis of Anna hiding shame | 36:34 | | “I didn’t get you pregnant...” | 22:35 | | “I missed.” | 21:38 | | Tom’s disastrous gun cover-up | 26:22 | | Anna’s “sunshine problem” | 43:45 | | Corkboard conspiracy update | 54:15–56:07| | Finale anticipation & storm | 55:34+ |

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Tone and Dynamic

The pod preserves the smart-alecky, irreverent, yet passionate tone of the hosts, blending sharp TV criticism with running jokes and warm audience engagement.

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For Newcomers: What You Missed

• The Bowdoin family is in collapse: jail, trauma, addiction, and carrying secrets.
• Max Cady continues to manipulate, weaponizing shame and secrecy.
• Natalie tries—and fails dramatically—to kill Max, instead getting herself arrested.
• Anna, burdened by her past, takes up arms. All paths lead to Cape Fear River for a climactic showdown.
• The hosts’ detailed, humor-filled breakdowns help decode all the melodrama, trauma, and WTF plot developments, while keeping an eye on the corkboard of conspiracy and absurdity that is the show’s universe.

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Listeners are encouraged to weigh in on cat shirts, corkboards, and theories ([e-mail]), and to buckle up for Anna v. Max as the storm approaches—literally and figuratively—for the final showdown.

Transcript

[Sponsor/Ad Reader]

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[Joanna Robinson]

Hello. Welcome back to the Prestige TV podcast feed. I'm Joanna Robinson.

[Rob Mahoney]

I'm Rob Mahoney.

[Joanna Robinson]

Why are you shaking your head at me already?

[Rob Mahoney]

I didn't do anything.

[Joanna Robinson]

It's episode eight of Cape Fear.

[Rob Mahoney]

It is.

[Joanna Robinson]

Is that what you want to shake your head at?

[Rob Mahoney]

No, I'm very happy about this episode.

[Joanna Robinson]

El tiempo de Dios es perfecto.

[Rob Mahoney]

Wonderful.

[Joanna Robinson]

God's timing is perfect.

[Rob Mahoney]

Always, always.

[Joanna Robinson]

Written by Alan Paige Arriaga. Directed by my guy, Stephen Williams. He's a lost director and he also directed the incredible episode of Watchmen. This extraordinary being the Nostalgia Trip episode All Fucking Timer. Well, what Stephen Williams was. And I've talked to him a couple times about his work on Loss and he's like, you know, they always call me for the water episodes. So he directed a lot of episodes where people had to be quite wet and stuff like that. So the pool opener of this episode, they're like, let's get Stephen Williams in here. We got some cool stuff to do. So. Yeah. Did you like this episode of Television, Rob?

[Rob Mahoney]

I think so.

[Joanna Robinson]

Okay.

[Rob Mahoney]

Did you?

[Joanna Robinson]

I don't know where. Can folks email us their thoughts on this episode?

[Rob Mahoney]

I'm so glad you asked.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah, you're welcome.

[Rob Mahoney]

They can always email [e-mail] but really you'd be doing us a solid and you'd make me personally happy. If you are emailing us about Cape Fear, the series, email [e-mail] did you

[Joanna Robinson]

see the email we got from our listener, Emma?

[Rob Mahoney]

No, what did it say?

[Joanna Robinson]

So the text is this saw this haunted scene While listening to EP1 of coverage this morning and had to share. And it's a bag of. Of baby carrots that has been, like, ripped open and, like, strewn on the concrete.

[Rob Mahoney]

So just like, it's upsetting.

[Joanna Robinson]

Just like pavement carrot. And she's like, look, a horror movie has happened. And she texted us about it. So she emailed us about it. Thank you so much. Before I get into some other emails, it has been several episodes since Faith was bludgeoned to death. And yet no mention. Everyone's in jail.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yet no one cares. The cops are quite busy in this episode, but nobody cares that Faith is dead.

[Rob Mahoney]

I thought for sure this was going to be the week we got the update that as all the walls are closing in, they're going to find Anna's prince because she handles stinky bloody prince everything at the murder scene. But no, did not happen.

[Joanna Robinson]

No, no, no.

[Rob Mahoney]

Will it happen.

[Joanna Robinson]

Zach institutionalized, Tom in jail, Natalie in jail, but Anna free to marinate in the consequences. So even if Max Katie knew that her, like, fingerprints, her sticky, bloody fingerprints were all over the crime scene.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

He doesn't want her in jail. He wants her out. And just sort of like, it's true, you know, getting pickled in the misery that is, you know, the brine that

[Rob Mahoney]

he has created, I don't like that at all. But even if he does want her out pickling, if her fingerprints are all over the place and the cops just show up and do the bare minimum of their job, won't they find her?

[Joanna Robinson]

I don't know that I think much of the cops that we get to spend time with this episode.

[Rob Mahoney]

I feel mixed. On the one hand, the cops are not always great. I would argue way too glib about the whole we just found a dismembered body in a pool situation.

[Joanna Robinson]

Like the glibest. But this is the thing about Paul Schneider. He's the king of glib.

[Rob Mahoney]

He really is. So he is dialed in. He can't dial it down.

[Joanna Robinson]

Glibbing out with, you know, very much so.

[Rob Mahoney]

But counterpoint. I would say to this, to this point, this series wants me to think one thing about Tom, and it is that he is the world's dumbest prosecutor. Like, all of his maneuvers in attempting to hide the gun are among the stupidest things that have happened from any character on this show.

[Joanna Robinson]

I. I guess possibly, but I actually thought his, like, quick thinking lie when he was in there and he's like, where's the other gun, Tom? He's like, that pin's Been misfiring since day one. I had sawed it off a while

[Rob Mahoney]

ago after he fondled the gunpowder residue, like.

[Joanna Robinson]

All right, why? We just love to touch murder weapons here at the Bowdoin household. All right, so we got a bunch of emails from people, as you mentioned, we're sort of, like, a few episodes behind in our emails just because of the way we're recording these episodes.

[Rob Mahoney]

How do you feel about that being untethered in time?

[Joanna Robinson]

I'm supportive of you. I appreciate it, and your work life balance, and that's why we're here.

[Rob Mahoney]

I can. I can feel the anxiety that we are not responding to emails promptly, and I just want to know. I appreciate you.

[Sponsor/Ad Reader]

All right.

[Joanna Robinson]

Donna wrote in to say the Hyundai debate. My two cents is that Anna drives it to demonstrate that she works for a nonprofit poor form to drive up to visit a client in a. In prison in a flashy car.

[Rob Mahoney]

That's a fair point.

[Joanna Robinson]

Okay. But also, you know, if you're like, I've. I. I want the best lawyer in the world. Don't like. And that lawyer shows up in, like, a Jag. You're like, yeah, my lawyer is a JAG lawyer.

[Rob Mahoney]

You know, see, here's the thing. My lawyer showed up in a Jag.

[Joanna Robinson]

No, Jag as in the TV show about.

[Rob Mahoney]

I would support that. If they show up in a Jaguar car, I would think this lawyer is very impractical. They don't understand the maintenance costs that go into a Jag. Jaguar, specifically Jaguar.

[Joanna Robinson]

What's the most practical yet flashy, spendy car? Would you be like, that person's sensible, yet also has a lot of cash.

[Rob Mahoney]

I feel like it's gotta be a Toyota. No free ads.

[Joanna Robinson]

Wow.

[Rob Mahoney]

I feel like it definitely is.

[Joanna Robinson]

I don't think you're understanding the prompt at all. All right. Haley wrote in to. To do some eye color debate. Haley's like, I think Max. Katie's eyes are decidedly green rather than blue. In an interview, Bardem said they were meant to look predatory, like a panther. But I think their greenness and the green that they are all engulfed in throughout the whole show with the surrounding foliage represents Katie's imposing presence. The green blue contrast was especially noticeable in the most recent episode. Two episodes ago. As Katie starts to infiltrate their family, we see more apparent green with the kids. Natalie totes a green bag. Zach wears a green shirt, while Tom and Anna both wear bright blue shirts that match their own piercing blue eyes while they walk over to Katie's house to confront him. We have been tracking this sort of like green. Color coding and. And what exactly it means, but I don't know that I'm willing to conclusively say what color. Yeah. His eyes are blue.

[Rob Mahoney]

Green, for one. It's hard to tell depending on how each scene is lit.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah. The color grading on this show.

[Rob Mahoney]

All over the place.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Rob Mahoney]

And I. I will say from my eye, I don't know that the con. That the coloring around the Bowdens has been super consistent. I think it's edged from blue to green back and forth, kind of all over the place. In this episode, we get a lot of green. For example, Natalie, very green. Their house is obviously very green. I want to say there's, like, the blanket that Anna curls up with on the couch is like extremely. Almost like lime green.

[Joanna Robinson]

Well, maybe that means, like, Max, Katie's just taken over.

[Rob Mahoney]

It's true.

[Joanna Robinson]

You know, what's the decor like at Melissa Ampersand Adam, the restaurant that he's trying to get off the ground?

[Rob Mahoney]

I thought it was tasteful.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah. Elegant.

[Rob Mahoney]

Elegant. Not overly showy, but also kind of generic. Hospital lobby.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah, I thought it was great. Quite generic, like, looking. Max, Katie, I don't like your restaurant. Okay. Brandon says, pertaining to the acid trip scene, I too agree this is the best Amy Adams has been all season. I think the whole cast a great job, but Amy Adams has definitely tripped in her lifetime more than once. Probably. She absolutely nailed it. Don't ask me how I know. I thought Amy Adams was really good in this episode.

[Rob Mahoney]

Agreed.

[Joanna Robinson]

The. The sort of, like, drunk. Well, maybe it's just like, you know, under the influence of some sort of substance acting for maybe Adams. Because I think the drunken, tearful scene with Natalie was really, really good. Genu. Like, actually good. Like from a better show good.

[Rob Mahoney]

Some of the best Anna and Nat stuff we've gotten all season, for sure.

[Joanna Robinson]

Absolutely. A number of our listeners wrote in to let us know if we didn't already, that money means peanuts in Spanish.

[Rob Mahoney]

I do love this.

[Joanna Robinson]

Okay, so did you know that already?

[Rob Mahoney]

I did not.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah, I. I forgot.

[Rob Mahoney]

Despite your impeccable pronunciation.

[Joanna Robinson]

That's. That's a grade school Spanish. And those. And like, little things like peanuts don't stay with you. Also probably not impeccable. All right. Emily, who's worked as a nurse in the ER for the last 15 years, says, yes, they do do some brain surgeries with the person awake. Conscience. The purpose is that the neurosurgeon can ensure that certain parts of the brain responsible for speech, language processing, etc remain intact while they do surgery. In fact, they have done brain surgery on people, having them play a musical instrument to make sure that they don't do any damage to specific parts of their brain that control, quote, coordinated movement or other important neurological functions. What if you can't play a musical instrument?

[Rob Mahoney]

I think you just gotta plunk it out.

[Joanna Robinson]

Okay.

[Rob Mahoney]

They'll give you a little keyboard. You play chopsticks and you keep it moving.

[Joanna Robinson]

I can do heart and soul.

[Rob Mahoney]

That's the thing.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Rob Mahoney]

That's all you have to do.

[Joanna Robinson]

But if it's like a five hour surgery, do I have to play heart and soul? Five hours.

[Rob Mahoney]

Hey, can you bust out fear, Elise, real quick? Like Moonlight Sonata? You can handle. You can handle the melody.

[Joanna Robinson]

I love Moonlight Sonata.

[Rob Mahoney]

Who doesn't?

[Joanna Robinson]

Well, probably quite a bit.

[Rob Mahoney]

I just. I do find this very distressing, though. I understand. The human brain is endlessly complex. There are, by my estimation, countless neurons and dendrites and things like firing off up there.

[Joanna Robinson]

Dendrites.

[Rob Mahoney]

I mean, I think it's a part of a neuron, so I think that might be redundant. But still, there's a lot happening. I would still like to believe.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Rob Mahoney]

If somebody's going to be cutting up up there.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Rob Mahoney]

They know.

[Joanna Robinson]

Snip and dendrites.

[Rob Mahoney]

Where to. Not snip.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Rob Mahoney]

To let me continue to play the piano, which I don't do. But the viola, I did once upon a time. Did you hear about the Mary Steenburgen musical story? Do you know what I'm talking about?

[Sponsor/Ad Reader]

No.

[Rob Mahoney]

She underwent some kind of. Mary Steenburgen, the legendary actor, underwent some kind of surgery.

[Joanna Robinson]

Oscar winning.

[Rob Mahoney]

Acting. Oscar winning. Oscar winning, in part because of the original song she wrote, had no musical capability, underwent some kind of surgery, woke up with, like, what? The music in her head, the ability to play music and write music.

[Joanna Robinson]

What?

[Rob Mahoney]

This is a real thing.

[Joanna Robinson]

I mean, okay, at least she.

[Rob Mahoney]

That's by her telling, it's a reality. I mean.

[Joanna Robinson]

But she has an acting Oscar.

[Rob Mahoney]

She does, but she also for best original song, I believe, or at least was nominated, I think.

[Joanna Robinson]

Nominated? Nominated. Okay.

[Sponsor/Ad Reader]

Wow.

[Joanna Robinson]

Okay. Wild. And then Ben wrote in to let us know about the popularity of Santeria, paganism and Wicca in prison populations. Ben has worked at the books to prisons program and mentioned, like, because, you know, I knew that like Christianity or Islam or a number of other faiths, like people are in prison, they're looking for, you know, they have questions, they need answers. They turn to faith and stuff like that. But this listener was saying that, like, of the books that he has been asked to give in this in books to prison program that he's part of. Dictionary, Thesaurus, Atlas, Legal Primer, followed by books on Wicca. So the witches are thriving in prison, and I love to hear it. But then also a lot of these practices of Satanism or Wicca or century or whatever the case may be are not standard. So, you know, if we're like, hey, what is this jailhouse Santeria that he's practicing here? Like, that's sort of the point.

[Rob Mahoney]

That one's interesting to me because, granted, my understanding of witchcraft and Wicca are pretty limited, but I always think of it as more.

[Joanna Robinson]

But you know about dendrites.

[Rob Mahoney]

I know all about them. I think of it as more of, like, a spiritual connection than a moral framework. Is that misguided? Like, part of the appeal, as I understand it for someone in prison is understanding their place in the universe is maybe looking for redemption through religion, things like that.

[Joanna Robinson]

But place of the universe. That's absolutely Wicca. It's more like naturalistic.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yes.

[Joanna Robinson]

But it is absolutely sort of like. And there are divine powers inside of. I'm not a witch, but I.

[Rob Mahoney]

You're witch adjacent.

[Joanna Robinson]

I know many witches and they have. They have, like, you know, depending on what kind of wiki you practice, there are, like, gods that they believe in.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

So I think that sort of like divine order and sort of like, certainly the cycles of nature, all of that sort of stuff. I think that makes sense is part of all of that. A lot of our listeners wrote in to make sure that we knew that when Max and. And we were perhaps both blinded by the guns on Max. Katie. When he was cooking up pig's ears. But that the soundtrack to this cooking experiment was Steely Dan's song 19.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

So Steely Dan, very much in our hearts and souls this year between euphoria and this. And also 19. What a. What a track to pick. You called it. You were right. Romeo did attack someone, and it was Anna's shitty dad. Brandon.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

Is that who you wanted him to attack?

[Rob Mahoney]

I don't know that I wanted him to attack. I want better things for Romeo, period. I want him to frolic in the wilderness somewhere and live a peaceful life away from Max.

[Joanna Robinson]

If the Bowdoins are successful in eradicating Max, Katie from their life. Yes. Do you want them to adopt Romeo? No.

[Rob Mahoney]

These people suck, okay? They're bad pet owners. See many slash peanut butter. Like, even. Even peanut butter's like, get me up out of here.

[Joanna Robinson]

All right, we open with the therapy hour with Zach and Dr. Patrick Fishler, M. D. Yeah.

[Rob Mahoney]

How to go?

[Joanna Robinson]

You stabbed your dad with a pair of gardening shears. So this is a nice confirmation for you. Not as, like, not that you were worried, but like, it was not the aforementioned big ass knife. It was gardening shears. But that was Checkoff's gardening equipment that we saw outside of Max Katie's house. When the Bowdens walked up, there was like, that wheelbarrow, and. And I was like, what's that doing there? Is he bearing bodies? I don't know. But the gardening shears are right there for Zach to use to stab Tom

[Rob Mahoney]

in the back, so very effective for stabbing.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah. Therapy doesn't seem like it's going great. No, we. We on this podcast are very pro therapy. Of course, Zach doesn't seem to be taken to it very well.

[Rob Mahoney]

The good news is he's in it. The bad news is, yes, he's only kind of in it because maybe AI Slop Son is in it instead.

[Joanna Robinson]

Okay, you're back on possession theory.

[Rob Mahoney]

I don't know. I really. I really don't know what to believe anymore.

[Joanna Robinson]

There's a final shot in this episode is him taking his meds, but he's seeing AI Slops on.

[Rob Mahoney]

Well, let me ask you that before we even get that far. Did he take those meds?

[Joanna Robinson]

Well, I don't know.

[Rob Mahoney]

There's a bit like, did he take him out of the cup and, like, hide them under something on the table?

[Joanna Robinson]

I feel like having seen many films and television shows set in mental institutions, we have to come up with a better system than the paper Dixie cup that we just walk away and leave the meds there and assume that the patient's gonna take them.

[Rob Mahoney]

There are too many pillows and crevices on that couch, and there's too much stuff on the coffee T. Yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

Frankly, to just be giving them secret a pill into.

[Rob Mahoney]

You got to at least wait and see if you took the pills or not. That orderly or whatnot. Did not seem terribly concerned.

[Joanna Robinson]

It's a very Zack light episode. I'm kind of okay with that. Yeah, I like Joe Anders, but, like, I'm kind of like, his storyline isn't going anywhere interesting right now for me. And by the end of this episode, like, we've got two more episodes to go, if I'm counting correctly. And by the end of this episode, it's the Anna show, I would think everyone else is in an institution or another, and Anna's on the road.

[Rob Mahoney]

Well, I think we're going to see some inside those institutions, and I'm looking forward to that. Too. But I agree. Zach feels the most deprioritized at this point.

[Joanna Robinson]

Oh, you want the Nevaeh Natalie Shivfest badly. Okay.

[Rob Mahoney]

So Shiv Fest 2020. I'm very much looking forward to that. Like full on cage fight whenever it comes.

[Joanna Robinson]

Okay.

[Rob Mahoney]

But yeah, I think Joe Anders has been pretty good all season. He's being asked to do a lot here and I. He's going for it. I will say it is tough to swerve with the dual personality type acting and still stay on the road.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Rob Mahoney]

And there are points at which the car is about to careen into the past.

[Joanna Robinson]

Okay.

[Rob Mahoney]

And the writing is not helping. Like the. You will start to feel like yourself again. Yeah. But what self. Oh, brother.

[Joanna Robinson]

Boy.

[Rob Mahoney]

Come on.

[Joanna Robinson]

All right, what about. What about dialogue? Less sequences. Like Natalie finding something in the pool.

[Rob Mahoney]

Pretty good.

[Joanna Robinson]

Pretty great.

[Rob Mahoney]

The. The Leary, like looking through the window as she's getting into the pool made me very uncomfortable. Mission accomplished.

[Joanna Robinson]

But at least she's wearing a swimsuit. One of our listeners or someone pointed out like that earlier when she. That's not water. When she goes to get liquor. Liquor store. She is. She is laying out in the sun in denim overalls.

[Rob Mahoney]

Overalls. Yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

Which is just not. But at least now she's in a swimsuit. But maybe she's never gonna go back in the water. Just. We thought it was safe to go back in the water.

[Rob Mahoney]

I can't imagine she would.

[Joanna Robinson]

No. I think that swimming pool is done. So for them. She's.

[Rob Mahoney]

She's a little all over the place this episode, but I think it's a little understandable considering she found a dismembered corpse in her swimming pool.

[Joanna Robinson]

Can I. With full respect for Ray Rollins, a character we. We really enjoyed and wanted to see more of.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yep.

[Joanna Robinson]

Can I offer up a suggestion for what? The card should be on the board for this.

[Rob Mahoney]

Is it rest in pieces?

[Joanna Robinson]

No.

[Rob Mahoney]

What is it?

[Joanna Robinson]

Charcuterie. You hate it.

[Rob Mahoney]

Joe. What? Where is the shark?

[Joanna Robinson]

No, like charcuterie, but it's Ray.

[Rob Mahoney]

Oh, Charcuterie Ray. I thought you were making a double shark ray pun. I was like, where's the shark in this?

[Joanna Robinson]

No.

[Rob Mahoney]

Well, it's charcuterie.

[Joanna Robinson]

It's Charcuterie. Charcuterie board. It's Charcuterie board.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah. You might be. It's kind of splitting the difference on the continent. Honestly, I never thought about it this much, but you may be right.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Rob Mahoney]

Charcuterie board. Charcuterie. Yeah. It is Char. It is more Char.

[Joanna Robinson]

Charcuterie.

[Rob Mahoney]

I'm coming around.

[Joanna Robinson]

But okay, let's just.

[Rob Mahoney]

I'm pun skeptical.

[Joanna Robinson]

I know you hate a pun. Let's just let it pickle for the rest of the.

[Rob Mahoney]

Just let it float in the water and see where things come up.

[Joanna Robinson]

This is the best use of the photo neg is Natalie. Toss her out in the water and it's all black and she's screaming. I thought that was fantastic. Steven Williams, get the water guy. Looks great.

[Rob Mahoney]

It really pays off.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Rob Mahoney]

This whole sequence is horrifying. I do have logistical questions.

[Joanna Robinson]

Okay. When did the carving happen?

[Rob Mahoney]

Don't know.

[Joanna Robinson]

Right.

[Rob Mahoney]

I mean, clearly Max had the body close enough or went back for it at some point. Maybe this is more evidence it was in the trunk.

[Joanna Robinson]

I think. I think I'm pro. It was in the trunk.

[Rob Mahoney]

What if he had the cooler in the trunk and then it suppressed the

[Joanna Robinson]

smell, but that he would have had to have chopped it up on site.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

I don't feel like he had enough time to. Well, I don't know how long that drug nap lasted, but like, it does take a while. If it were me having injected a peach, I would not feel confident about the dosage levels. Right. And so, like, I would want to get that body in the trunk as soon as possible so I would not take the time to chop it up. But yes, the cooler might have helped with the smell.

[Rob Mahoney]

I. I don't know that I needed to see this, but I do. I do find myself thinking of the Americans and specifically, how do you compress a body to fit into a suitcase that you can roll out the front door?

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah. It requires a lot of cracking of bones.

[Rob Mahoney]

A lot of cracking.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Rob Mahoney]

But in this case it was more chop.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Rob Mahoney]

So I can see how it all fits. But a cooler is famously like a flotational device. So you have to really weigh that thing down to get it to all the way to the bottom of a pool.

[Joanna Robinson]

Well, how about a whole body and inside of it? Do you want.

[Rob Mahoney]

I don't even think that's enough.

[Joanna Robinson]

Do you wish we got the outtakes of Max just like wading into the pool?

[Rob Mahoney]

I kind of do.

[Joanna Robinson]

And it's just like bobbing back up to the surface.

[Rob Mahoney]

I mean, he's a full time schemer and I would love to see like him all the times he has injected peaches waiting for Natalie to get into his car. Like, God damn it. It's another.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah, yeah.

[Rob Mahoney]

Fruit is not cheap right now, you know, to.

[Joanna Robinson]

To zoom ahead. And it's so true. And it's stone fruit season, so we are very mindful of this. To Zuma had to. The shooting incident that happens at the end of the season episode.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

I'm not a doctor, clearly. If anyone spent time with us covering the pit, do you feel like, where Max. Katie was like, right here. Right here. Right here is, like, a specific part of the abdomen where there are no organs. Like, shoot me right here.

[Rob Mahoney]

He did seem aware.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Rob Mahoney]

I mean, he pointed it, and then the nurse was like, thank God you got shot at exactly this spot, because it dodged all your organs.

[Joanna Robinson]

At the minimum. Natalie is so dumb that he's like. I mean, obviously he's goading her into shooting him and he's like, do it right here. If it were me, I would do it anywhere else than the place that this guy. Because I was. I was trying to give Natalie some points in this episode.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

Right. When she's on the phone with him and he's like. He's like, I don't know. Your parents would do anything to get me back. And she's like, I don't believe you. And I was like, yes, thank you.

[Rob Mahoney]

Finally.

[Joanna Robinson]

Like, thank you. And then, you know, she hears what Anna has to say about her experience with Max, and she goes over there with the gun. Like, none of his spells, you know, his charm spells are working on her. But then, like, he gets her to shoot him, and I'm just like, natalie, come the fuck off.

[Rob Mahoney]

She's a scared teenager. I'm not trying to give her points. I'm just saying of all the people doing ridiculous things on the show, the scared teenager, to me, is the most believable. This whole situation, though, did result into me what might be in the running for one of the funniest lines of the season, which is when, after the shooting, when Natalie is getting arrested, Anna's like, what happened, baby? What happened? I missed.

[Joanna Robinson]

I really wish this episode was just called I Missed.

[Rob Mahoney]

Incredible.

[Joanna Robinson]

So good.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yes.

[Joanna Robinson]

I almost wish that was the button. I wish it had been. I missed. Cut.

[Rob Mahoney]

Friends. Yeah. Let's get out of there. Like, I don't need anything else.

[Joanna Robinson]

10 out of 10. I really agree. So good. Let's go back to earlier this episode. Why go in chronological order. Natalie visiting Nevaeh in prison. They have this conversation. This is a very confusing conversation to me because, like, at the end, Natalie is definitely provoking Nevaeh. And then Nevaeh sort of loses her shit on Natalie. Yeah. And then Natalie looks, like, wounded, and I was like, did you not just goad her into that response? I'm. I'm so confused. But Nevaeh is Jealous that Max took Natalie to Cape Fear river also.

[Rob Mahoney]

And the card earlier this season that was like, I will take you here someday was to her, right?

[Joanna Robinson]

Correct. To Nevaeh.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah. So she.

[Joanna Robinson]

I mean, it was found at the maggot tomb, so I can only assume that it was for her. Natalie and Nevaeh, incest. Here's Nevaeh's read on this. I didn't get you pregnant, did I?

[Rob Mahoney]

I think that's got to go on the board adjoined her to the incest card. I didn't get you pregnant.

[Joanna Robinson]

I didn't get you pregnant, did I?

[Rob Mahoney]

Also, am I crazy, or does prison really suit Nevaeh? She is glowing.

[Joanna Robinson]

I agree. The bangs are looking fresh.

[Rob Mahoney]

There's something about it.

[Joanna Robinson]

Maybe it's because she's not being actively dosed by, like, a psychotropic drug that probably helps in prison, you know, I

[Rob Mahoney]

don't know what it is. There's just something about the lighting or the, like, whatever makeup she's able to procure.

[Joanna Robinson]

Less unhinged.

[Rob Mahoney]

She looks alive.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah. She looks proper hinged. Well, not entirely.

[Rob Mahoney]

Until the hinges come off.

[Sponsor/Ad Reader]

Yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah, Absolutely.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

Do you think he cares about you? You're just a baby rat for him to play with before he kills it. I really wish she. Natalie, had gotten, like, if she's gonna provoke Nevaeh, I wish she had gotten, like, some actual useful information. Yeah, one little item of, like, oh, she said this. This will help us understand what his plan is. But, no, it's just. Well, maybe it's just sort of more like fuel on the fire for eventual Shiv Fest 20, 26. That is their meeting in prison.

[Rob Mahoney]

So. And I do think it's fuel on the fire in terms of coming forward to her parents about the gun, like, coming clean about the whole situation. Right. So many characters in the show. Anna's guilty of this. Tom is guilty of this. Like, they'll go barking up certain trees and they'll be rebuffed, and then they come and come back and do the thing they should have done in the first place.

[Joanna Robinson]

And they're like, oh, now's the time.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yes.

[Joanna Robinson]

To share.

[Rob Mahoney]

Oh, the cops are here. Let me tell you, what's going on

[Joanna Robinson]

right now is the moment.

[Rob Mahoney]

It's always the moment.

[Joanna Robinson]

The scene with Noah and Anna when they're talking about Ray. And then Anna, like, you brought up the cloud the other day. Anna remembers the cloud, and she's like, let's find it. And not only that. Later, Anna geolocates the Galilee based on the iPhone. Data. Apple must be loving this commercial.

[Rob Mahoney]

The real hero is the cloud. That's the real afterlife, if you think about it. Oh, yeah, your recent photos album.

[Joanna Robinson]

Ray lives on in the cloud.

[Rob Mahoney]

It transcends all of us.

[Joanna Robinson]

Do you think they thought about calling it I Heaven, but they said icloud instead.

[Rob Mahoney]

I really hope they did.

[Joanna Robinson]

Okay, great. Anything else you want to say about this Noah scene? Do you feel like Noah was properly contrite for her involvement in all of this?

[Rob Mahoney]

No.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah. No.

[Rob Mahoney]

No, I do not.

[Joanna Robinson]

No, I also.

[Rob Mahoney]

Many characters have fucked up, but, boy, did she up.

[Joanna Robinson]

Absolutely. We get the Detective Grayson. Tom and Anna going to see Detective Grayson. Ollie reporting on Tom. We get the footage of Tom beating up Ollie in the bar, et cetera, et cetera. Anything you want to say about this

[Rob Mahoney]

before this Detective Grayson interaction? Can we rewind a little bit to the initial? The body has been found in the pool. The police show up to the house. Sure. First of all, the pod. The Bowdens did get that second security camera and it did jack shit. They got alternate footage.

[Joanna Robinson]

They got fleeced.

[Rob Mahoney]

Serious. The off charge on that thing. Unbelievable. So, first of all, it did zero good.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Rob Mahoney]

Then I would say this is the police doing their jobs. When Detective Grayson is like, do you have any guns in the house? In the house where we found the murder victim in the backyard of the pool. And Anna gets real snippy about the whole situation. And from her perspective, I get it.

[Joanna Robinson]

The police have been so incurious about anything, and now they're finally asking questions.

[Rob Mahoney]

They found the body in your backyard. They're gonna ask if possibly you have the murder weapon. That feels like a reasonable thing to do, I guess.

[Joanna Robinson]

But, like, walk me, you know, to Tom's outrage point later. Walk me through the thought process of I'm gonna kill someone, chop him up, put him in a cooler, Put that cooler in my pool so that someone can find it and then report it to the cops.

[Rob Mahoney]

I don't think it would happen. I don't think it would happen, but maybe that would be the perfect cover, is hiding it where they least expect.

[Joanna Robinson]

Okay.

[Rob Mahoney]

I just think. Look, police work is all about, as they say, repeatedly ruling things out. This is worth.

[Joanna Robinson]

Grayson's just asking questions.

[Rob Mahoney]

He's just doing his job.

[Joanna Robinson]

He's just asking questions.

[Rob Mahoney]

He's doing his job very poorly, but he is doing it.

[Sponsor/Ad Reader]

Okay.

[Joanna Robinson]

Anything else you want to say about Tom and Anna and Detective Grayson at the police station?

[Rob Mahoney]

I just think Tom is really embarrassing himself with the whole gun situation and the attempt to hide it. Rob not owned the gun that could be used as a murder weapon in the first place. But it is, Georgia, given the fact

[Joanna Robinson]

that you and I probably would not have guns in our house in the first place.

[Rob Mahoney]

Probably not.

[Joanna Robinson]

Okay. But if we did.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yep.

[Joanna Robinson]

And if, you know, if you had guns and if your teenage daughter were to use the gun.

[Rob Mahoney]

You don't know that she did that though. You know somebody did it.

[Joanna Robinson]

If you find the used murder weapon and the cops are already curious about why this body's in your pool.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yep.

[Joanna Robinson]

What are you doing, Rob? What's your next move?

[Rob Mahoney]

Not sticking my finger on the barrel of the gun.

[Joanna Robinson]

Okay.

[Rob Mahoney]

That's. That's step one.

[Joanna Robinson]

Okay.

[Rob Mahoney]

And if I were a prosecutor of some renowned.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Rob Mahoney]

Who would understand that there's going to be a record of me buying this exact gun. I probably would do better than like hiding it in the hamper and then trying to subtly discard it in a house that is wired for constant surveillance. Like that security company is turning over that surveillance instantly.

[Joanna Robinson]

Glitchy surveillance.

[Rob Mahoney]

But no, they installed the new system. They're upgraded now and they got upcharged.

[Joanna Robinson]

Okay.

[Rob Mahoney]

I'm just saying there's crystal clear, high definition footage of Tom going into his gun safe, getting the gun and trying and clumsily disposing it. Like that's just. That's on tape somewhere.

[Joanna Robinson]

Tough, tough. Speaking of stuff that's on tape. Okay, so we get multiple scenes with Anna's shitty dad who reveals his true colors. Both her dad. Well, I guess Anna fell off the wagon, was shoved off the wagon when she had lsd, was dosed with lsd.

[Rob Mahoney]

It's true. Not outside her control.

[Joanna Robinson]

But in this episode, both she and her dad are just like hard earned sobriety out the window. What's your read on this? Like, do you believe that he, her dad, ever had those, like, genuine intentions of like, wanting to make good with the family or was it always this bid for money from them?

[Rob Mahoney]

I actually kind of thought it was trying to get closer to the family, maybe. That's naive of me. Did you think he just wanted to

[Joanna Robinson]

watch a Pixar movie with.

[Rob Mahoney]

He just wants to watch Cars 2.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah. You know. Yeah, he probably is a Cars you guys.

[Rob Mahoney]

Probably Monsters Inc. Maybe. Are we the Monsters.

[Joanna Robinson]

Monsters University?

[Rob Mahoney]

He is a big Monsters University. Look.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Rob Mahoney]

He's a simple man.

[Joanna Robinson]

Okay?

[Rob Mahoney]

He wants two things. He wants to watch Cars 3/ monsters University with his grandkids.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Rob Mahoney]

And he also wants $100,000.

[Joanna Robinson]

I too want those things.

[Rob Mahoney]

It could be either one. And today he decides to Switch the lever to the other track, and then

[Joanna Robinson]

he shows up on the news with Max. And, you know, there are many ways in which Max has been exploiting the media. You. You clocked it sort of from the beginning, this idea of, like the celebrity of murder or something like that. But the way in which Max is using, you know, media perception, all of this against the Bowdens. Will there be a time that the Bowdoins figure out how to weaponize it back in his direction? I should hope so. But they're fumble bumbling their way through everything, so. I don't know.

[Rob Mahoney]

They're not very good at it.

[Joanna Robinson]

No, they're really bad.

[Rob Mahoney]

He's great at it.

[Joanna Robinson]

So good at it.

[Rob Mahoney]

Well, here's a question about Anna's dad, Brandon Devereaux.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Rob Mahoney]

Did he get money from Max? Was he threatened by Max? Because I would assume money. Well, but part of the other side of getting your leg ripped up by Romeo is his DNA is all over the crime scene.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yes.

[Rob Mahoney]

Right. Like all over Max's house. And he could threaten to turn Brandon over to the police if he does not help him.

[Joanna Robinson]

I think it's both. Right. It's like we've got a significant amount of your flesh in Romeo's job.

[Rob Mahoney]

There's a whole chunk over there.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah, absolutely. But also, like, they were so chummy. Chummy, buddy, buddy.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah, that.

[Joanna Robinson]

It feels like there was also some money past hands there, actually.

[Rob Mahoney]

What if it was many? No, it's Anna's assumption this was Romeo's doing. We told you.

[Joanna Robinson]

He's trying to blame a cat for a dog crying.

[Rob Mahoney]

I'm not trying to blame a thing. I'm just saying there's a lot of. There's a lot of claw happening in that. In that wound.

[Joanna Robinson]

That's some real Rob Mahoney behavior.

[Rob Mahoney]

And we're live on match day as Doug reaches for a buffalo wing. He's got it. Oh, and he's gone for a can of Pepsi, too. What a finish. There's no doubt about it. It just tastes better. Match Days deserve Pepsi.

[Joanna Robinson]

All right. Tom looks at the photos that Ray took.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

Sees the photo of Anna and Max kissing. And we get this, like, very strange, sort of like telenovela esque, like. Like he's looking at the phone and we see the photo that he's looking at. I already knew which photo he was looking at, but the show wanted to make sure I understood what he was looking at.

[Rob Mahoney]

Well, not only that, we get the very dramatic zoom in to make sure. I. I felt a little attacked, like. Like freeze Frame Bowden is here on the case. I might be out of a job.

[Joanna Robinson]

Oh, no.

[Rob Mahoney]

What am I to do if I can't be the only person zooming in on random shit in the background of photos and TV shows?

[Joanna Robinson]

I can't believe you just spent, like, 15 minutes besmirching Tom as the dumbest guy alive. And then you're like, also, he's on my beat.

[Rob Mahoney]

I'm not going to lie. Anyone could do my job. It's really not that complicated.

[Joanna Robinson]

All right, so he's really stuck on this. So, I mean, earlier we had had this, like, we had had them holding hands. We'd had sort of this, like, lovey dovey, like, fond memory moment of them.

[Rob Mahoney]

Nothing rekindles a relationship like cleaning up a crime scene, planting evidence. I think Dear Abby said that.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah, she did. Remind me what you were saying before about, like, nobody remembers from one episode to another on this show. It's real sort of Glee behavior for. And by the way, I read an article the other day. Cause I was looking up because Anna was talking about meeting Javier Bardem, and he was just like, a handsome restaurateur. And I was like, 2009 Javier Bardem, let's go look at him. That's what she was dealing with, right?

[Rob Mahoney]

Absolutely.

[Joanna Robinson]

Vicky Christina Barcelona. Javier Bardem.

[Rob Mahoney]

She is not the only one, the

[Joanna Robinson]

Javier Bardem that pulled Penelope Cruz. That's what she was doing canonically, she was grappling with at the time. But I found an article from him that he gave an interview that he gave recently that said in 2009, he really tried to get Ryan Murphy. He wanted Ryan Murphy to put him ugly. He wanted to be ugly, but, like, he couldn't sing, so he wasn't ugly. Anyway, Glee storytelling.

[Rob Mahoney]

Thank God that sliding door slammed shut.

[Joanna Robinson]

Glee storytelling is. If we need something to happen, it has to happen in that exact same episode. So at the beginning of the episode, we need to establish that Anna and Tom actually care about each other.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yes.

[Joanna Robinson]

So that by the end, actually the middle of the episode, when Tom's like, you did this to me.

[Rob Mahoney]

Wow.

[Joanna Robinson]

We are just sort of like. You know what I mean? We can be, like, reminded of what was lost.

[Rob Mahoney]

You're absolutely right.

[Joanna Robinson]

But I'm just sort of like this. You had a lot of time for them to have this scene or these handholding moments or whatever, and they're just sort of like hastily cramming into this episode so that they could be wrenched apart a few scenes later, I guess.

[Rob Mahoney]

And they do the same thing with her sobriety too. There's the whole scene about the apple juice, which is actually, like, kind of sweet.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah, it is.

[Rob Mahoney]

But it serves there to set up the fact that when she falls off later, you understand the stakes and the impact and all that.

[Joanna Robinson]

It's like, here's what you missed on Glee. Nothing. Because we're going to establish it again in this very episode, just in case you forgot it.

[Rob Mahoney]

There just haven't been that many episodes of Cape Fear. And there really are. There's, there's a lot, lot going on in terms of thoughts and twists.

[Joanna Robinson]

Everyone has, like, one thing about them. Anna's sobriety. So, you know, what is Zach eating? Toast. Fishing. Fish.

[Rob Mahoney]

Everyone has a talent.

[Joanna Robinson]

Fishing and eating toast. All right, Tom and Anna in prison. What did you think of this scene?

[Rob Mahoney]

I mean, I, I, I kind of get why it's over. Or at least it seems to be over for now. They certainly don't seem to trust each other. All the bottom has completely fallen out on their relationship.

[Joanna Robinson]

I wish. So I. The thing I really liked about this episode, I will say, is in the Anna and Natalie scene, we get a better explanation for why Anna has kept it a secret, not only her whole life, but in this whole Max Katie confrontation that Natalie could be his daughter. Right. It's her buried shame that she thought she buried deep enough that it would not come back to her. And I felt so much sympathy for her because, like, knowing what we know about Max Katie and his, like, drugging tendencies and manipulative ways, this is sort of like he could have injected any given peach that she ate. And she had, she had these blackouts before, before she met him. But, like, he seemingly, to me, took advantage of that.

[Sponsor/Ad Reader]

Oh, yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

And, like, that's, you know, sexual assault. And that's what she's describing here. That's why Natalie's so perturbed here. And so for to go. Then zoom back to that scene with Tom, because when Tom's like, what do you mean, you don't know? Yeah. And I'm with you. I'm like, yeah, Anna, what do you mean, you don't know? And then later she tells us. I'm like, I'm sorry, Anna. I'm sorry that I was, like, on Tom's side in that scene because, like, I understand Tom's frustration for sure, and I understand why Anna is, like, not ready to talk about it until she is, like, fully fallen off the wagon and she talks to Natalie about it. But, like, so I, like, this is like the one time I feel like the show has Given us expl. Like a proper human explanation for why someone would be so, like, withholding. Yes.

[Rob Mahoney]

And cagey for more than just plot convenience.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly.

[Rob Mahoney]

I mean, we're getting there. I still feel like we only know some of the story and maybe still not the entire picture. Like, does. Does what Anna says about her shame and wanting to suppress it and wanting. And part of that is wanting to bury all of that shame and Max with it somewhere where it'll never resurface again. Does that sufficiently explain the Max line? You put me away for what she did. Which is the thing that Tom returns

[Joanna Robinson]

to really latches onto in this episode.

[Rob Mahoney]

I mean, it just comes right on back up, word for word, letter for letter. I think it could. And some of it'll depend on what the extent of, like, burying Max really means.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah. To your point, we don't know the full story of the way in which Tom and Anna colluded. Like, we don't know all of that information. Absolutely. But the why of Anna being willing to not wanting Max to be exonerated, but rather wanting him locked away and hidden is because it is associated with something that she feels ashamed of.

[Rob Mahoney]

Exactly.

[Joanna Robinson]

Though she should not feel ashamed of it. And then I think that, like, what the larger ripples of that is what it makes this show about, because, let's say 90s CAPE, like, what is Max Katie? What does Max Katie represent? This, like, elemental evil in the, like, 60s version. It's like, you're. You're nice, you know, kind, honorable family, and this, like, demonic presence has come to bedevil you or whatever. And then in the 90s, as we've mentioned, Nick Nolte has, like, a sin, something that he did for sure, that isn't nearly on. On this level or whatever, but, like, something that he did has come back to haunt him. And so for this to now be sort of like Anna's hidden shame about something that I don't know all the details of, but I'm inclined to be on her side, given everything that we've seen Max Katie do. Like that she's hidden this thing that. That if we lived in a better society, she should not feel shame around, and it has come to haunt her. I think that's a potentially very interesting story to watch.

[Rob Mahoney]

Well, especially because there's the overlaying dynamics there. There's whatever her relationship was with Max that's, like, awkwardly footed and they're figuring out. It's like she just met this man and clearly they're swept up in something Right. But so she's sort of trying to figure him out. And then there's everything going on with her just like addiction in general that I think is facilitating these blackouts. And so it's like she's feeling shame in a probably several different directions at once in a way that she is trying to make sense of. And the fact that she can't even say confidently that, like an encounter happened or at least doesn't with Natalie, like, I completely understand how she would have, like, buried this within herself to this point.

[Joanna Robinson]

Absolutely.

[Rob Mahoney]

How do you confront the thing that you don't even know yourself to be, like 100% factually true? Because you're living in this sort of constant haze of days on weeks of blackouts.

[Joanna Robinson]

Right. So like blackouts due to drinking and then blackouts potentially also due to being drugged. And like, if. But my point, I guess, not that you contradicted anything I said, but my point is, like, if it's due to the drinking, like alcoholism is a disease. And so, like, that is something I have a lot of empathy around. And then if it is, if it is due to being drugged, that's assault. And so or some combination of the two. These are all things that I like, would like the world to have empathy for the people who have, like, struggled through this. And oftentimes it doesn't. And especially in a world, in a world, in a world where, like, Anna has dedicated herself to this idea of, like, redemption and second chances but cannot offer that quarter to herself, is, I think, potentially good. I'm not sure that that's the show we're watching.

[Rob Mahoney]

Probably not, but the DNA is there.

[Joanna Robinson]

Sure.

[Rob Mahoney]

And I'll say too, as far as this kind of gray area we're talking about, as far as, like, what even happened between these two characters, this is kind of an adaptive sidestep too, of the Max Katies of iterations past are like, clearly sexual predators, like, have often overtly raped usually underage girls.

[Joanna Robinson]

Right.

[Rob Mahoney]

We haven't had any allusion to that kind of backstory here. But if there is like a weird line crossing sexual assault that happened with Anna while she was under the influence or he was drugging her, that's like a twist on that kind of story.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Rob Mahoney]

Spun out in a different sort of direction.

[Joanna Robinson]

I will say whatever has happened between him and Crystal, I do not feel great about that either.

[Rob Mahoney]

Nope. Well, can we talk about that front? Because in episode I believe it was episode six, we get Max's story about Lila where he is talking. And you may remember this is like the big speech about the girl named Lila, the boy she was like, tormenting, who exacts his revenge. And we got some emails and we talked about in the episode, like, wondering who he's referring to. And he gives Anna a very like, you know what I'm talking about mid speech. I the details don't really line up to me to be about his relationship with Anna. They still feel like they would be more about his relationship with Crystal potentially. But the fallout, the punishment is like word for word, note for note what he is doing to the Bowden now. Right about like, I want to make you feel the way I felt.

[Joanna Robinson]

Right.

[Rob Mahoney]

When like, real or real or imagined.

[Joanna Robinson]

Right.

[Rob Mahoney]

The injustices that he thinks they have visited on him.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Rob Mahoney]

And he is trying to make Anna feel as powerless as he felt.

[Joanna Robinson]

Absolutely, absolutely.

[Rob Mahoney]

And so I, I, I did think it was interesting to get repeated allusions again in this episode to like, people playing with mice or people playing like cats playing with rats and mice as like this gigantic metaphor that won't go away regarding Max. But I do feel like we kind of closed the loop on the Lila story, maybe.

[Joanna Robinson]

So you think it is Anna.

[Rob Mahoney]

I think it has come to be about Anna. But the beginning of that story about, like, the boy, like, this is just his M.O.

[Joanna Robinson]

then this is just like that.

[Rob Mahoney]

This is a process he perfected with Crystal and is now using against him

[Joanna Robinson]

his sort of like, idea of cosmic justice if he feels wronged by something.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yes.

[Joanna Robinson]

When Natalee finds her mom drunk and Natalie's like, I know a drunk lady when I see her and she says she'll make her some coffee. Do you think that was Savannah Coffee

[Rob Mahoney]

Roasters, except no substitutes.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah, absolutely.

[Rob Mahoney]

I had her in town. She just, she just took cup out of one hand, swapped it some Savannah Coffee Roasters.

[Joanna Robinson]

I mean, no free ads, but got a sober up in a quickness.

[Rob Mahoney]

It honestly worked.

[Joanna Robinson]

Did it? She took a nap and her daughter went across the street to shoot someone.

[Rob Mahoney]

Well, but then she had the mother's intuition to jolt up as all mothers do when your teenage daughter has shot someone.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah, yeah. Absolutely. To recap, 2009, Javier Bardem, this is Vicky Christina Barcelona. Javier Bardem, this is Night at the Museum Battle of the Smithsonian.

[Rob Mahoney]

Amy Adams, Amelia Earhart.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah. Okay. Wow.

[Joanna Robinson]

Okay. Before Natalie shows up and does the really dumb with a gun.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

Max, head injury without any observation. This is a question we had previously. Was like, when he's like, oh, my head in the car. And you're like, is he just faking it for Natalie? Well, but we get this incident without anyone observing.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yes, but I feel like the times where it does happen without anybody are all strobing lights. Like, in this case, he looks directly into the police sirens, and then his head starts splitting, and then he sees the vision. Max. Son. Holy bangs. Everyone is here. I. I thought the one in the car, and I still do believe that one is immaculate. Do they not look even more immaculate every time we see them?

[Joanna Robinson]

Glossy perfection, honestly. Really good.

[Rob Mahoney]

But, yeah, to your point, this one is clearly not fake. He's alone in his own home until Natalie stumbles in with a gun.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah. All right. What he says to her before he goads her into shooting him. Precisely where it will not hit any organs. You're about to learn things about the people you love. Hard things. You need time to really understand. You will always have time. Me? Like, so part of his, like, seduction tactic of, like, I'm your dad. I'll take care of you, et cetera, et cetera. But, like, I kind of had this moment of. Of triumph when he says, you're about to learn things about the people you love. Hard things. Like, to your point, we still don't know exactly what Tom and Anna did, but if he's trying to, like, hold Anna's shame over Natalie in some way or something like that, like, Anna already told Natalie, like, you have no power here.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yes.

[Joanna Robinson]

Because Anna already came clean to Natalie about this. And also, you don't. She does not look like the villain of that particular scenario.

[Rob Mahoney]

No.

[Joanna Robinson]

So, like, that's like, we got a sunshine problem here. Like, we need to air everything out so that Max cannot have this ability to manipulate and, you know, use secrets as weapons, et cetera, et cetera.

[Rob Mahoney]

This is the closest that Natalie has come all season to like, actually understanding what is happening.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Rob Mahoney]

And operating with that knowledge in a way that is not dumbfounding. Even earlier in this episode, I miss. She just keeps. Like earlier in this episode, when Max calls her.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Rob Mahoney]

She just keeps divulging information you should not divulge to someone you were even remotely skeptical of. And here, in the end, she shows up with the gun. She's like, I don't believe what you're saying. I'm here to kill you to save my family. And even then, he manages to, like, twist her fear into something that he can manipulate and use for his purposes.

[Joanna Robinson]

Where would you have shot back, Katie?

[Rob Mahoney]

I mean, if you're gonna shoot, I feel like you gotta shoot to kill.

[Joanna Robinson]

No, but where. Where do you feel like that is?

[Rob Mahoney]

I feel like that's in the head or the heart.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah, I would do.

[Rob Mahoney]

Not my area. Not a gunman.

[Joanna Robinson]

I think it's a headshot.

[Rob Mahoney]

I mean, you gotta be three in the head. You better not. You better not miss.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Rob Mahoney]

Not in the side, regardless if you are going to shoot him. Here's the thing. Don't raise a gun at anyone you don't intend to shoot. That's like gun 101.

[Joanna Robinson]

Don't have guns.

[Rob Mahoney]

That's real good. 101.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Rob Mahoney]

If you do have the gun and you raise it at somebody, be prepared to shoot them.

[Joanna Robinson]

Okay.

[Rob Mahoney]

Don't let Max.

[Joanna Robinson]

Don't tremble.

[Rob Mahoney]

Close the space and nearly take it out of your hands and then position it conveniently into his gut where it will hit no vital organs.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah, yeah.

[Rob Mahoney]

If your intent is to kill someone. Again, not our area.

[Joanna Robinson]

Where do you get that information? Oh, the Prestige TV podcast. They told me exactly how to kill someone. Someone. All right. Anna goes into Max's hospital room.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

Oh, I should say so. So she. I missed. Natalie gets taken away. Anna goes to the hospital room to say, like, I'll say I did it. I want to go back, though, when Tom gets arrested, like, covering for Natalie, essentially. Right? Kind of. She calls him Dad. I think it's the first time she's called him dad. She calls him Tom the whole season, I think. And so she calls him dad, like right before he goes out the door.

[Rob Mahoney]

So that's going to keep him warm at night. You think he's doing all right in prison? Oh, man. She finally called me dad.

[Joanna Robinson]

Step really stepped up this.

[Rob Mahoney]

He really did step up. But Natalie really stepped out. She. She really blew it.

[Joanna Robinson]

I just thought. I, like, I've been sort of tracking, like, does Tom treat Natalie, who's not his biological kid, the same way he treats his toe eating son? And there are some differences, but, like, he went to jail for her to a certain degree.

[Rob Mahoney]

Well, I think he also went to jail because there was evidence pointed specifically at him.

[Joanna Robinson]

Not too. But he's just sort of like, you know, I'll go like, you know, here's the thing.

[Rob Mahoney]

If he goes in there and says, my daughter took that gun and hung out with Max. Katie. On a road trip to North Carolina in which he used it to kill Ray, someone who doesn't really go to North Carolina very often, it seems over there, I just don't think it's going to help his case. I don't think anyone's going to believe him, even if he said it.

[Joanna Robinson]

But he's like, I Have more information. And it's this. This is how we can perhaps connect Max, Katie to this particular crime.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

If we know that Ray Rollins was at the Galilee, which is information that Anna has that's confirmable, you know, and,

[Rob Mahoney]

like, the metadata speaks to it.

[Joanna Robinson]

Everyone's sharing all the information we have. I think we can. Could have a case here.

[Rob Mahoney]

I think.

[Joanna Robinson]

Not a lawyer.

[Rob Mahoney]

I think we can have the inklings of a case. But counterpoint, the murder weapon is in the Bowdoin's closet, locked in a safe. The fingerprints are on it.

[Joanna Robinson]

I thought he got rid of it somewhere else. Did he? Well, he's like, we got it before they went in to see Detective Grayson. Yeah, after the laundry basket, which was just a temporary resting place.

[Rob Mahoney]

It's true. It's true.

[Joanna Robinson]

Before they went, he's like, we got to get rid of. We got to dump this weapon.

[Rob Mahoney]

But where did he dump it?

[Joanna Robinson]

I don't know.

[Rob Mahoney]

We've already established these two don't know how to do crime. Like, his whole plan was like, I'm gonna go over to Max's house.

[Joanna Robinson]

I was trying to give Tom some credit, and I think, like, Natalie saying, hey, it was I. It was. Twas me with the gun. And he's like, I'll just go to jail right now. Like, that seemed very dad like.

[Rob Mahoney]

I don't think that's what dads usually do.

[Joanna Robinson]

Tough. Tough for me to learn that here on this podcast. Anna's in Max's hospital room. How do you feel about this?

[Rob Mahoney]

This is a terrible plan.

[Joanna Robinson]

Awful.

[Rob Mahoney]

One of the worst plans.

[Joanna Robinson]

Genuinely terrible.

[Rob Mahoney]

Show up in the one place your family cannot be seen near this man. He has manipulated your husband into prison. He hates you now.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Rob Mahoney]

Your daughter into prison. She may never come out because she did shoot this guy. She missed your son into thinking he is AI Slop. And your plan is to go into a place with lots of security cameras first try to bargain, and then assault this man.

[Joanna Robinson]

Fondle him like he's a murder weapon.

[Rob Mahoney]

There's. There are just so many witnesses. We see so many doctors and nurses acknowledging her presence. It's a terrible plan.

[Joanna Robinson]

We end up with Tom in prison, Zach taking drugs or not. Nevaeh looking on as Natalie walks in.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah. And can we just to pick up with where. Where did they leave off? I'm gonna fucking kill you. Oh, my God. It's gonna be beautiful. He's gonna tear you fucking people up piece by fucking piece. Fucking bitch. That was Nevaeh's last words to Natalie.

[Joanna Robinson]

Shiv fest. Shiv Fest.

[Rob Mahoney]

How do you think Natalie's like shiv? Whittling is like, can she successfully create a shiv?

[Joanna Robinson]

I think Nevaeh was born Whitlin, so I don't think Natalie can outwittle her at any time.

[Rob Mahoney]

You think it's more of a nature than a nurture?

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah, I really do. I really do. I'm just curious if, like, one of the future episodes is called Shiv Fest. It's not unfortunate.

[Rob Mahoney]

That's a bummer.

[Joanna Robinson]

But the Scarlet is next week's episode.

[Rob Mahoney]

That could be shift related.

[Joanna Robinson]

I don't know what that is about. Okay. Tom's in prison. Zach's maybe taking his medication, or not the right dosage. Who's to say? Nevaeh looking on as Natalie walks in. Anna's got a gun.

[Rob Mahoney]

How many guns does this family own? This one wasn't even in the safe.

[Joanna Robinson]

This wasn't one of the ones from the safe.

[Rob Mahoney]

It's like a revolver. It's a totally different gun.

[Joanna Robinson]

There were like four or five handguns in the safe and then the shotgun.

[Rob Mahoney]

But the handles all look similar to the Glock, which I think is a different.

[Joanna Robinson]

I thought there was a revolver in there.

[Rob Mahoney]

I mean, you.

[Joanna Robinson]

I did not.

[Rob Mahoney]

You are a gun guy.

[Joanna Robinson]

I did not. Freeze frame. Mahoney it. Anyway. Okay. Perhaps this is Anna's girl.

[Rob Mahoney]

Bonus gun.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah, bonus gun. She's got a gun. She's going to Cape Fear river to the Galilee, which I hope means Juliet Lewis is in next week's episode.

[Rob Mahoney]

One can only hope and dream.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Rob Mahoney]

Do you think when the cops were like, don't leave town, was that like a soft suggestion or was that a real suggestion?

[Joanna Robinson]

Why should she listen to anything these fucking cops say?

[Rob Mahoney]

Just doing their jobs, ma'.

[Sponsor/Ad Reader]

Am.

[Joanna Robinson]

She's just going to take. She's going to take matters into her own hands. And when has that gone wrong for the Bowdoins on this show?

[Rob Mahoney]

Never a single time. Yeah, but let me tell you, the storms are coming.

[Joanna Robinson]

Storm is a coming.

[Rob Mahoney]

The car's on the road. We're hurtling toward Cape Fear, and that storm is not stopping for anybody. And I cannot wait for a climactic rainy showdown. Thunder cracking in the back on the Galilee, I would hope.

[Joanna Robinson]

Okay.

[Rob Mahoney]

Nearby, at least.

[Joanna Robinson]

So is it just Anna v Max on the Galilee with the historical storm?

[Rob Mahoney]

And Crystal's the wild card who Anna believes she is co opted to her side through some force of plot and magic.

[Joanna Robinson]

Oh, but she wasn't in the humidor, so she doesn't know.

[Rob Mahoney]

She doesn't know. All About.

[Joanna Robinson]

About the Spit relationship?

[Rob Mahoney]

No, that's. That bonds people for life. Yeah, so I've been told.

[Joanna Robinson]

Did we discuss this episode? We came here.

[Rob Mahoney]

I think we did.

[Joanna Robinson]

Is there anything else you want to say, Joe?

[Rob Mahoney]

I do have one last thing to bring up Natalie's shirt in the open of this episode. The first time we see Natalie on screen, she's wearing, like, a off the shoulder cat shirt. Cats and flowers.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Rob Mahoney]

This is the first time all season I'm like, that is Max's daughter. That's a style icon if I've ever seen one.

[Joanna Robinson]

You know, I don't know. You think.

[Rob Mahoney]

You think Anna. Anna and Tom are coming up with that?

[Joanna Robinson]

You think that you're pro that cat shirt?

[Rob Mahoney]

Look, I kind of liked it. I liked it as, you know, Natalie following her heart. These are. These are the two things she apparently cares about. Well, I guess three. It's like these two. And, like, would you wear an off

[Joanna Robinson]

the shoulder number with. With a cat with a dog on it?

[Rob Mahoney]

Not me personally, but if you can pull it off, I support anyone who can.

[Joanna Robinson]

Okay, great. I can't believe I had that cat shirt down as, like, bad idea. But you're like, great.

[Rob Mahoney]

I think that was a. You think in the realm of cape fear, bad ideas. That was a bad idea.

[Joanna Robinson]

Think of a [e-mail] if you'd like to weigh in on the cat shirt. And whether or not you think that was the look for Natalie.

[Rob Mahoney]

What's the problem? Is it. That's a little too 2009.

[Joanna Robinson]

Okay.

[Rob Mahoney]

Like wolves howling at the moon or. What's your objection?

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah. Three wolf. I hate to besmirch my fellow cat people. I don't think cats. I don't think pets on apparel is a good look.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah. You think you should be ashamed of your pets and never take them in public or be proud of them.

[Joanna Robinson]

I don't think you should, like, infantilize them in that way.

[Rob Mahoney]

Infantilize them?

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Rob Mahoney]

Couldn't it be celebrating them?

[Joanna Robinson]

I don't know. I just. I'm just. I support you. If you're at home and you're wearing a cat shirt right now, I support you.

[Rob Mahoney]

It doesn't sound like she is. She is not supporting you.

[Joanna Robinson]

I don't like it. I don't like it. Cats on things. I don't. I don't like it.

[Rob Mahoney]

I just think people should celebrate their pets. And I think Natalie's bond to peanut butter is beautiful. Money, money. Well, to her, it's still peanut butter. I don't think she even Knows about the many situation. Nobody. No. Here's the problem for Natalie. No one tells her anything. She's just sitting at home hanging out in the backyard and overalls. Nobody bothers to tell her what's going on.

[Joanna Robinson]

Why did I think peanut was a completely different word in Spanish?

[Rob Mahoney]

What did you think it was?

[Joanna Robinson]

I'm going to say a word that's not a word. Okay.

[Rob Mahoney]

This is podcasting, baby.

[Joanna Robinson]

Like cacahuate is what I thought peanut was. Okay. And manteca de cacahuate is peanut butter, and that's butter of cacao. I thought cacahuate was peanut. So maybe money is just like a cute way of saying peanut.

[Rob Mahoney]

Could be. Maybe it's like an affectionate. Like Lil Peanut.

[Joanna Robinson]

Oh, lil peanut. Yeah. You know, you just put cacahuate in Google. It just says peanut.

[Rob Mahoney]

Think of a little peanut. Thank you, mail.com.

[Joanna Robinson]

all right, RIP little homie. Anything else you want to say about this?

[Rob Mahoney]

Let's go to the board.

[Joanna Robinson]

Okay, great. All right, now is the time on this very normal podcast. We are going to introduce the new cars that we are adding to our conspiracy board.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yes.

[Joanna Robinson]

For Cape Fear. Only two more episodes to go after this. Do you feel like we're going to be able to cover all the cork by. By the time we're done here?

[Rob Mahoney]

I have the opposite concern, which is there's a lot going on here. It's quite busy. We've already had to take some things off just because they've left. Relevance. Characters have been replaced completely.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah, absolutely.

[Rob Mahoney]

We have increasing clarity and I. This thing is messy, and it's only going to get messy.

[Joanna Robinson]

Your third eye is open always. All right. You want to start?

[Rob Mahoney]

I would love to. The security system upcharges. They didn't do jack. Didn't do a single thing.

[Joanna Robinson]

You really wanted that car to say useless security systems of charges. But I was. My hand was cramped.

[Rob Mahoney]

That was probably redundant.

[Joanna Robinson]

I didn't get you pregnant, did I? We decided to add some quotes this week. They're in pink for some.

[Rob Mahoney]

Well, then let me add the corresponding quote from the recipient of this one. I missed.

[Joanna Robinson]

I missed.

[Rob Mahoney]

Nothing else need be said.

[Joanna Robinson]

The cloud is here. Don't worry about it. Give a corresponding card somehow.

[Rob Mahoney]

Not the same thing, but adjacent to metadata.

[Joanna Robinson]

Absolutely.

[Rob Mahoney]

Very important in any virtual detective work. Digital detective work.

[Joanna Robinson]

You have another corresponding card over there. Do you want to play it right now?

[Rob Mahoney]

Wait. To the cloud.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah, it's the one on top.

[Rob Mahoney]

Is it the storm?

[Joanna Robinson]

It's the storm.

[Rob Mahoney]

You know a thing or two about Storms. You know, you've been in this line of work for a long time.

[Joanna Robinson]

Is that a storm spoilers joke?

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

Great.

[Rob Mahoney]

Are we allowed? It's allowed, but the storms are coming. I hope people batten down the hatches. Oh, my God, I hope they get in their storm cellars.

[Joanna Robinson]

What if their hatches are not battened? What if their hinges are all un.

[Rob Mahoney]

The show is already un and unbattened. My only hope when the storm does come. Yeah, it's Max and it's Anna, and they're in a little ditch under a road, holding onto a pipe ever so tightly.

[Joanna Robinson]

Oh, you want that twister action?

[Rob Mahoney]

I really do.

[Joanna Robinson]

Okay, listen, do we remember how to podcast normally?

[Rob Mahoney]

No.

[Joanna Robinson]

That's my question.

[Rob Mahoney]

No, we do not.

[Joanna Robinson]

Are we gonna be able to, like, re hinge and re batten this podcast by the time that Slow Horses comes back?

[Rob Mahoney]

The thing is, that's already a pretty unhinged show.

[Joanna Robinson]

It's true.

[Rob Mahoney]

It could probably use a corkboard.

[Joanna Robinson]

I really miss normal podcasting. All right, the revolver, gun number three that we're adding to the board, the revolver.

[Rob Mahoney]

It's an important one. Also important. I mean, potentially a weapon of a different kind. Zach's hidden meds. They're being smuggled. At least I think. Do you think?

[Joanna Robinson]

I think it's more likely than not.

[Rob Mahoney]

I don't think you're seeing AI slop, son if you're on your meds. Okay, so maybe this is the last time Zach sees them, but it sure looked to me like he was smuggling them under something on the table.

[Joanna Robinson]

Okay. A very specific region of the abdomen where your organs will not be injured by being shot by possibly your biological daughter, who likes cat shirts.

[Rob Mahoney]

All very normal maternal instinct. Alarm clock. For one occasion and one occasion only. And it's when your teenage daughter shoots an adult man in that specified reason of the Abdomen.

[Joanna Robinson]

All right. 2009. Javier Bardem. This is what Anna was working with. Tough. Tough for all of us. And then crystal scrapbook. This is Rob's suggestion. It's really more of, like, a. A smear of photos on the table.

[Rob Mahoney]

I guess it's a collage, now that I think about it.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah. Her vision board of stocking.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yes. I do think it's aspirational scrapbooking, though. She's bought all the supplies, she's laid out all the photos, and like many people, she has become overwhelmed with possibilities.

[Joanna Robinson]

Is she gonna scrapbook it or is she gonna corkboard it?

[Rob Mahoney]

If she comes up with a corkboard

[Joanna Robinson]

in the finale, I dare not compete with the Juliet Lewis level corkboard.

[Rob Mahoney]

We are going to ascend into heaven directly. If she has the corkboard in the finale.

[Joanna Robinson]

All right.

[Rob Mahoney]

As a happy grandfather would be if he finally got the opportunity to watch Monsters University with his grandkids. It's all he wants. Let this man watch a Pixar movie. Brandon Devereaux.

[Joanna Robinson]

Brandon Devereaux. Last but not least, Rob did. Let me have it, Charcuterie.

[Rob Mahoney]

I think I finally am wrapping my head around this pun. I can't support it, but I do support you.

[Joanna Robinson]

Thank you. And that's our podcast. Thanks so much to Jacob Cornette, who's here with us today. Dev Ronaldo, Kai Grady. I don't know. Who else are we thinking?

[Rob Mahoney]

Gun number five. Okay.

[Joanna Robinson]

Time will only tell.

[Rob Mahoney]

Drug injected Peaches.

[Joanna Robinson]

Oh, yeah, absolutely.

[Rob Mahoney]

And many always.

[Joanna Robinson]

You've seen the movie. You haven't seen the movie Labyrinth. You have seen the Labyrinth.

[Rob Mahoney]

I have, yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

Okay.

[Rob Mahoney]

You remind me of the babe.

[Joanna Robinson]

Well, remember how he gives her that poison peach that causes her to hallucinate?

[Rob Mahoney]

Of course.

[Joanna Robinson]

Do you think this is where Max Cady got the idea to inject the peach again?

[Rob Mahoney]

I just want to see the ideation

[Joanna Robinson]

stages of all of his watching Labyrinth as one does. And he's like, that's a great idea. I gotta get me some peaches.

[Rob Mahoney]

Zach is like, my brain is now jumbled into a series of movie scenes. And meanwhile, Max, Katie's like, actually, these movie scenes are pretty instructive.

[Joanna Robinson]

Labyrinth is great. Okay, thanks to everyone. We'll see you soon. Bye.