‘Cape Fear’ Episode 9: Risk It for the Biscuit

Summary

The Prestige TV Podcast – ‘Cape Fear’ Episode 9: “Risk It for the Biscuit”

Date: July 24, 2026
Hosts: Joanna Robinson & Rob Mahoney

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Episode Overview

In this episode, Joanna Robinson and Rob Mahoney deliver a lively, joke-laden, and deeply invested breakdown of the penultimate episode of Cape Fear, titled “The Scar.” The conversation blends plot dissection with meta-commentary, theory-crafting, wardrobe analysis, and their signature corkboard theorizing. As the season barrels toward its finale, they dig into the mysteries, character motivations, and deliciously bonkers moments that make this adaptation so memorable.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Meaning and Symbolism of "The Scar"

• Physical and Emotional Scars: The hosts riff on the title, noting there are at least two major physical scars in the episode, but even more narrative and emotional scars after a season full of trauma.
  • “Which scar do you think?” – Rob Mahoney (02:00)
• Luke’s Identity and the AI Slop Son Theory: The big fan theory about Luke being the infamous “AI Slop Son” is examined, eventually landing with the hosts on the show’s suggestion that Luke is probably Max and Crystal’s son, not “Adam,” but perhaps Adam’s half-brother/cousin–because, as Rob puts it:
  • “It’s that kind of show.” (04:13)

2. Crystal’s Arc and Juliette Lewis Appreciation

• The episode is a showcase for Juliette Lewis’s Crystal, which both hosts rave about, with Rob repeatedly declaring his allegiance to Team Crystal.
  • “This season needed way more Crystal Katie. If you have the Lewis, you use the Lewis.” – Joanna (32:17)
• Crystal’s upbringing “in a crate” and presumed trauma at the hands of Max are discussed with both horror and dark humor.

3. Anna’s Detective Work & Drunken Master Energy

• Joanna proposes Anna is at her detective best when drunk, likening her to a “Drunken Master” for managing to sleuth out vital clues while off the wagon.
  • “She gets a lot of good detective work done, does she not?” – Joanna (08:29)
  • “Drunken Master is wild for off the wagon Anna, but maybe...” – Rob (08:39)
• Anna’s journey in the episode, from a sunrise drive to an early morning bar, culminates in her waking up on Crystal’s boat—evidence of her resourcefulness (and questionable habits).

4. The Biscuit Incident & Prison Dynamics (19:00)

• The titular “Risk It for the Biscuit” moment: Natalie and Nevaeh’s negotiation, betrayal, and the literal and metaphorical exchange of a biscuit in prison. The absurdity and importance of biscuits as emotional and transactional currency are explored.
  • “She refused to give up the biscuit, as it were.” – Joanna (20:46)
• Rob and Joanna riff on prison phone etiquette, burner phones stashed in “How to Win Friends and Influence People,” and the clumsy attempts at secrecy.

5. Fish-Based Crimes & Macabre Standouts

• A surprising number of fish-related horrors: Anna’s hand stabbed by a fish knife, piles of fish heads, beer on the dock with dead fish—culminating in a running joke about “fish-based crimes.”
  • “A lot of fish-based crimes in this episode.” – Rob (39:49)

6. The Board – Corkboard Theorizing and Hall-of-Fame Artifacts (44:48 onward)

• The hosts add their favorite plot points and absurdities to their virtual corkboard, including:
  • The Scar (45:04)
  • Amy Brancato’s homemade tomato soup
  • Baby doll Katie (“innovation in prestige TV” according to Rob, 14:39)
  • The waterproof (?) flash drive
  • “Prison post nut clarity” (Rob’s phrase, with much delight)
  • Melissa’s tacky heart necklace (“a clue in the swamplaw case” – Joanna, 46:03)
  • And “Swamp Law” – the rules are different out here.

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Notable Moments & Quotes with Timestamps

Tomato Soup Trauma

• “Should we slosh some, like, tomato soup on our board before it’s all said and done for the finale?” – Rob (02:38)
• Story of pea soup in a haunted house and the danger of “old soup.” – Joanna (02:57-03:24)

AI Slop Son Theory

• “Wouldn’t it be interesting for the AI Slop version of Adam to have been presented to us this whole time? Just so that we could meet a slightly different one. Kind of left in the oven too long.” – Joanna (04:22-04:43)
• “There is no justification for AI Slop...” – Rob (05:34)

On Crystal’s Methods

• “I have never seen one breastfeed a doll a single time. And so I think we have no choice but to salute Hester for innovation in this space and Cape Fear for innovating in the space of prestige television.” – Rob (14:39)

Meta-Writing Commentary

• “Best writing in this episode…he told me to break into your house and spike the tea with acid and to seduce your brother and make him bite off his own toe.” – Rob (27:46)

Character Power Rankings

• Team Crystal vs. Team Anna:
  • “If you want to get into the too dumb to live category, I think it’s Anna all the way down.” – Rob (07:33)
  • “She gets away. That was like a real biting fantasy layer of sarcasm from you. I didn’t enjoy it. She gets the USB. She gets away.” – Joanna (38:34)

Mayonnaise Philosophy & Culinary Crimes

• Ongoing riff about mayo, aioli, tuna salad, and “white crimes.”
  • “Mayonnaise. Never a condiment on its own... You’re sounding a lot like Nevaeh with her pouches of tuna right now. And I’m very concerned for you.” – Rob (19:44-20:09)

Swamp Law

• “Swamp law. How we've been... we've been barking up so many of the wrong trees.” – Rob (34:06)
• “It’s like Main Justice. The rules are all different. And I feel like maybe Anna is a little overmatched when it comes to swamp law.” (34:33)

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Episode Structure & Important Segment Timestamps

• [02:00] Opening banter & theme: The Scar—physical, emotional, and narrative
• [03:31] Listener theories: Who is Luke? AI Slop Son and familial twists
• [06:16] Prison plotlines: Zack’s escape, Nevaeh and Natalie’s dance, Justified comparisons
• [07:22] Defending Crystal vs. criticizing Anna
• [08:29] Anna’s “Drunken Master” detective work
• [10:37] Tom and the Nokia burner phone logic
• [13:04] Anna’s bar crawl and timeline humor
• [14:04] Hester breastfeeding a doll: highest innovation in odd TV side characters
• [19:00] “Risk It for the Biscuit”/The prison biscuit economy
• [20:46] Tuna salad, mayo, and culinary digressions
• [26:28] Crystal’s backstory, the mystery of Melissa, and Crystal’s “warnings”
• [27:46] Best and worst writing moments (from toe biting to weird sorority shade)
• [32:17] More praise for Juliette Lewis/Crystal and show complaint of “not enough Crystal”
• [33:08] Analysis of Amy Brancato’s murder wall/conspiracy board
• [34:06] Swamp Law—a whole different legal system
• [38:47] Anna’s escape with the USB, Max’s aquatic limitations
• [41:07] The mystery of Luke’s identity and narrative closure
• [44:48] The Board: hosts add their favorite absurdities/artifacts

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Final Thoughts & Hopes for the Finale

• The hosts hope for a climactic showdown, potentially back at the Bowdoin homestead (“tasteful greenery,” great wallpaper).
• They want more answers on Luke, a return of beloved side characters (Lexi!), and an end to “crate time” for any child.
• “If you have the Lewis, you use the Lewis”—a rallying call for more Juliette Lewis.
• Live show teased for Los Angeles in August.

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Closing Quote

“Simply nothing left. What can we say that the board has not already said for us?”
— Rob Mahoney (49:21)

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For listeners and newcomers alike, this episode delivers the perfect blend of plot analysis, theory-crafting, and off-kilter comedy, leaving fans more than ready for the finale and any future “swamp law” developments.

Transcript

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[Rob Mahoney]

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[Jorda Robinson]

Hello. Welcome back to Allegedly the Prestige TV podcast feed. I'm Jorda Robinson.

[Rob Mahoney]

I'm allegedly Rob Mahoney and we're here

[Jorda Robinson]

today to talk to you about the penultimate episode of Cape Fear titled the Scar.

[Rob Mahoney]

Which scar do you think?

[Jorda Robinson]

Two prominent scars inside of this episode.

[Rob Mahoney]

At least the physical ones.

[Jorda Robinson]

What about emotional scars?

[Rob Mahoney]

We have many psychological scars after this season.

[Jorda Robinson]

Narrative scars.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah, they're really trying to patch some things over and up and make it all work. And I don't know, man, but as usual, I'm having fun with it.

[Jorda Robinson]

Okay, so we are gonna talk about episode nine and then we are gonna go to the board and do our usual corkboard madness. Gotta say, getting to see Amy's sort of like full murder wall. Did you feel intimidated?

[Rob Mahoney]

It was a real hard look in the mirror. I'm not gonna lie. Just like, what have we become?

[Jorda Robinson]

Should we slosh some, like, tomato soup on our board before it's all said

[Rob Mahoney]

and done for the finale? We really should. It's gonna stink to high heaven in here. We're gonna leave that tomato soup board in here way too long. But I have many thoughts about Amy's board. I wanna reserve them when we get to that section. But it was harrowing, I think, just confronting the fact that we are. But, Amy, have I ever told you

[Jorda Robinson]

about the time that I was in a haunted house in college?

[Rob Mahoney]

No.

[Jorda Robinson]

Okay. And they had me do. I was. I did Reagan from the Exorcist.

[Rob Mahoney]

Oh, you were participating in the haunted house.

[Jorda Robinson]

And it was all, like, horror. Like, tableaus from horror movies or whatever. So there were, like, people under the bed, like, shaking the bed, and I was just, like, on the bed screaming, obscenity, people. Great time. But they did put pea soup on me. And it. And it was on me for, like, hours. And that's one of the worst things that's ever happened to me. So I'm just gonna say, like, old soup should not sit around. That's a. That's a truism.

[Rob Mahoney]

I think that's a bold claim, but very accurate. I can't disagree.

[Jorda Robinson]

Should not sit around Now.

[Rob Mahoney]

New soup. I found a new soup.

[Jorda Robinson]

Yeah. Old soup on your person. Very bad. Okay. This is Cape beer. We didn't get a ton of emails, I should say, just because we've been, like, recording a little bit out of the loop. So people are not quite keeping pace with this, I think. But we did get a lot of emails before this episode aired. Obviously, it actually hasn't even aired yet of our listeners saying, hey, we think Consent King himself, Creepy Luke is AI Slop Son.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah.

[Jorda Robinson]

Now, inside this episode, we learn some things about Luke. But where are you on who Luke actually is?

[Rob Mahoney]

I think we got it laid out pretty clearly. I kind of am inclined to believe on face that he is Max and Crystal's son.

[Jorda Robinson]

Okay.

[Rob Mahoney]

Which would make him not AI Slop Son Adam, but AI Slop Son Adam's half brother slash cousin special. It's that kind of show.

[Jorda Robinson]

It's very House of the Dragon. But my question, I guess, is, I guess, is there any way in which he is AI Slop Son? Because we got some interesting emails of people being like, wouldn't it be interesting for the AI Slop version of Adam to have been presented to us this whole time?

[Rob Mahoney]

Yes.

[Jorda Robinson]

Just so that we could meet a slightly different one. Kind of left in the oven too long.

[Rob Mahoney]

Wow. It's a little melty.

[Jorda Robinson]

Yeah.

[Rob Mahoney]

I mean, he has a similar kind of wavy hair. There's no doubt. But that could just be half brotherly, cousinly, wavy hair.

[Jorda Robinson]

True, true, true.

[Rob Mahoney]

I do have that Question, though, about the scar.

[Jorda Robinson]

Right?

[Rob Mahoney]

It's the tell of this episode that, oh, you know, Anna saw this baby with the scar, then sees Luke with the scar. One to one, this is the baby. But also, we don't really get any explanation as the meaning of that scar or where it came from. Could it have been that he was pulled out of his dying mother's womb,

[Jorda Robinson]

ripped untimely from the womb as the spear might say. Wow.

[Rob Mahoney]

And maybe that scar came from the procedure that was required to save his life. I don't know.

[Jorda Robinson]

Okay, so would it be interesting if he is AI Slop son?

[Rob Mahoney]

Everything is interesting on this show.

[Jorda Robinson]

Would it, like, sort of justify the existence of AI Slop's son if, like, the whole reason AI Slop's son has been there is to sort of. So that they could spring this other sun on us?

[Rob Mahoney]

It's a trick question. There is no justification for AI Slop. I see what you're doing, and you're trying to paint me into a corner here as being pro AI on this podcast, and I won't fall for it.

[Jorda Robinson]

Okay, fair enough. Someday I'll get you.

[Rob Mahoney]

I am pro Luke, though, who is pro consent. So, you know, by the transitive property,

[Jorda Robinson]

he pistol whips the shit out of Ron Perlman in this episode.

[Rob Mahoney]

I thought he was very sweet. And don't pretend Ron Perlman didn't have it coming.

[Jorda Robinson]

Okay. Did you like this episode of television, Ron Poney?

[Rob Mahoney]

I really don't know.

[Jorda Robinson]

Huh.

[Rob Mahoney]

This felt messier than most, despite the fact that in some ways it was more focused than most. You know, we're kind of on very straight plot lines for these respective characters. Some of them are kind of boxed in in prison. Some of are boxed in until they escape from psychiatric care.

[Jorda Robinson]

Oh, you got exactly what you wanted.

[Rob Mahoney]

I kind of did, but kind of

[Jorda Robinson]

didn't wish Zack's escaped.

[Rob Mahoney]

Zack escape. I did want. Yeah, I just was hoping Nevaeh and Natalie would have a little bit more of a dance. And they didn't.

[Jorda Robinson]

They danced.

[Rob Mahoney]

They danced, but then they quickly separated. You know, the hall monitor came in, or the chaperone. The chaperone came and was like, no, please, please separate. Go to your respective walls. And you, by the way, you're out on bail.

[Jorda Robinson]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Rob Mahoney]

I just wanted. Why couldn't we get two episodes of them kind of figuring each other out, manipulating each other?

[Jorda Robinson]

Remember that season of Justified where Ava was just in prison the whole time? Yes, it was bad. So maybe we don't want that.

[Rob Mahoney]

I didn't ask for a Season I asked for two episodes.

[Jorda Robinson]

Okay, fair enough.

[Rob Mahoney]

And instead of five minutes in prison,

[Jorda Robinson]

I really liked this episode because it was a huge Juliet Lewis showcase.

[Rob Mahoney]

That part is.

[Jorda Robinson]

She's just like, fantastic. She's really great episode.

[Rob Mahoney]

And in the show in general, she's really wonderful. To the point where I found myself coming to Crystal's defense a lot. Oh, yeah, Anna's whole energy here. TeamKrystal, what is going on with Anna? Just coming out of the gate, insulting her later, calling her trash. Like, calling her crazy to her face.

[Jorda Robinson]

Well, she's trying to provoke her when she calls her trash. She's trying to provoke information out of her. No, definitely. It's an interrogation tactic. And also, Crystal took her gun from her.

[Rob Mahoney]

They just like, I was thrown off from the very beginning with the whole, like, I am team Crystal. There's really no doubt about it. Team Ana is a tough team to be on at this stage. If you want to get into the, like, too dumb to live category, I think it's Ana all the way down. Every decision she makes in this episode is, as usual, pretty baffling.

[Jorda Robinson]

I don't know.

[Rob Mahoney]

No.

[Jorda Robinson]

I'm on the opposite side of this where, like, oh, and by the way, we heard from our boss, Bill Simmons. Guess what? He's in on Amy Adams on the show.

[Rob Mahoney]

This is the one that got him.

[Jorda Robinson]

This is what brought him back around.

[Rob Mahoney]

Famous Amy Adams skeptic.

[Jorda Robinson]

He's like, she's really settled into something here in the back half of Cape Fear.

[Rob Mahoney]

And here I think this is not my favorite Amy Adams performance overall.

[Jorda Robinson]

No, no, no. You love Nocturnal animals.

[Rob Mahoney]

Okay, first of all, if you show me Amy Adams in any context and then a dark highway road as we do to open this episode, and you expect me not to think of nocturnal animals. I don't know who you're talking to.

[Jorda Robinson]

I was kind of thinking about Anna in this episode as almost like a Drunken Master esque. She needed to be trashed in order to like. She gets a lot of good detective work done, does she not?

[Rob Mahoney]

First of all, Drunken Master is wild for off the wagon Ana, but maybe

[Jorda Robinson]

she should be drunk and she's better at it when she's drunk.

[Rob Mahoney]

She's definitely a little looser. I just, again, the whole idea, she's innovative of Let the devil in the Door Anna, I am trying to reconcile and trying to understand. I don't know how I feel about it.

[Jorda Robinson]

It doesn't seem like a great idea. But does she get away? Yes. Did she find a USB in a haystack? She Does.

[Rob Mahoney]

But then she took it into the water.

[Jorda Robinson]

Well, I soaked that drive.

[Rob Mahoney]

Don't soak your drives unless you intend to destroy them.

[Jorda Robinson]

Okay. I don't know about the structural integrity of that particular USB drive, you know, but I just think it was so funny that she's like, huh, I'm looking in this sea of boxes. I'm, oh, there it is, a USB drive. I found it.

[Rob Mahoney]

See, I think she took this, and

[Jorda Robinson]

it's definitely the only USB drive that's down there. And it definitely has exactly what I

[Rob Mahoney]

want on it again. Yet a missed opportunity, though. Like, show us some other weird stuff in that box. You know, I want to know what's in there other than, like, some dusty old folders and a USB drive. There's gotta be something strange in there.

[Jorda Robinson]

I just think that, like, when she and Krystal go to Amy's house where Amy died, and Crystal's like, um, should we go in there? I don't know. And then Crystal's looking at a very squirrely fashion at the box, and Anna's like, oh, that's the box. Like, I actually think Anna's doing a lot of great work in this episode. And when Chris is like, go down into the hold. That's where you find what you're looking for. And she's like, you go down there. Like, I actually think Anna is smarter than usual in this episode.

[Rob Mahoney]

That point I can't argue. She does not go into the hold unprovoked.

[Jorda Robinson]

Yeah.

[Rob Mahoney]

I think her whole plan, as I understand it, is she also escapes with

[Jorda Robinson]

just, like, some cleaning spray.

[Rob Mahoney]

Is that what that is?

[Jorda Robinson]

I think so.

[Rob Mahoney]

Some kind of aerosol. I think it's gotta be more intense than cleaning spray, like roach killer, like rust remover from the boat engine or something like that. Look, she gets out of the pickle that she finds herself in. I just think maybe you don't get in the pickle if your plan is more elaborate than show up with gun, talk to Crystal, yada, yada, yada, save your family.

[Jorda Robinson]

I think she got a lot of good information. And what good did Tom do in this episode from his jail zone?

[Rob Mahoney]

Not a lot.

[Jorda Robinson]

He burnt that Nokia burner phone all the way down to 0% battery, making a lot of money.

[Rob Mahoney]

He didn't have a lot.

[Jorda Robinson]

Here's my question. Yeah. Rob, if you were to find yourself in a prison cell and the demonic presence that's been haunting you and your family smuggles in a burner phone to taunt you, a Nokia, and then you then were like, oh, I'm gonna use this to make a bunch of phone calls.

[Rob Mahoney]

Right.

[Jorda Robinson]

Who would you be able to call? Your what? Who's numbered?

[Rob Mahoney]

Whose number would I know? I would only know like four relevant numbers. My parents numbers, my wife's number, my brother's number. That is it.

[Jorda Robinson]

That's it.

[Rob Mahoney]

So I would spend the last 5% just playing Snake.

[Jorda Robinson]

Yeah.

[Rob Mahoney]

Let's use our time wisely.

[Jorda Robinson]

How do you think Nokia feels about being sort of like the official burner phone at this point?

[Rob Mahoney]

The official burner phone, they went from the top.

[Jorda Robinson]

They were like, everyone has Nokia to now it's only smuggled into jail cells.

[Rob Mahoney]

But in this case of the wrongfully accused, true, but also committing. Also considering suicide, at least on some level.

[Jorda Robinson]

I was just watching him call, like the psychiatric clinic.

[Rob Mahoney]

How did he know?

[Jorda Robinson]

He's just calling everyone. I was like, you know everyone's number?

[Rob Mahoney]

Can you call the operator and they could connect you?

[Jorda Robinson]

What, did 411 work in prison? Probably.

[Rob Mahoney]

Does it still work, period? I genuinely don't know.

[Jorda Robinson]

Can't get Internet on that phone.

[Rob Mahoney]

What a world we live in.

[Jorda Robinson]

It's true. Okay, let's go back to where I liked this episode.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah.

[Jorda Robinson]

Anna shows up at Bluff's Point. The boat's not there. She's wearing a great suede jacket.

[Rob Mahoney]

It's true.

[Jorda Robinson]

I'm considering putting the suede jacket on the board. It is incredibly good piece of wardrobe.

[Rob Mahoney]

What plot relevance do you think it'll have? Will it come back?

[Jorda Robinson]

Well, here's what I'll say. She's wearing the blue. And we love to track blue on the show. She's wearing the blue and then like the whole Katy family is wearing a lot of blue, but she's got this sort of like brown on top of it. What does that mean? I don't know, but it's. It means something. Cause it's Cape Fear. I have a question for you on the timeline, please. She leaves dead of night, she arrives there. Seems like sunrise to me when she gets there. Right.

[Rob Mahoney]

I think we established that it was taking like roughly four hours drive time from Savannah to Cape Town.

[Jorda Robinson]

It was either sunrise or sunset. So it's sunrise, right? Gotta be Rosy fingered Dawn as it's known as Homer would say.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah.

[Jorda Robinson]

Then she goes to the Katie household. We'll talk about that in a second. And then she goes to a bar. What time did she go to that bar?

[Rob Mahoney]

Oh, that bar's like 10:00am Yeah, I

[Jorda Robinson]

actually think it's like 9:00am Nine. You know, it did say open seven days a week. It did I was hoping to see the hours posted. Cause I'm like, is this a 24.7bar? Cause she went. That was an early morning bar stop.

[Rob Mahoney]

Well, it was clearly like kind of a biker bar situation.

[Jorda Robinson]

Sure.

[Rob Mahoney]

So open at 7am open 24 hours. I would believe it.

[Jorda Robinson]

She drinks there all day because she wakes up the next morning. I believe on Crystal's boat. It's morning when she wakes up on Crystal's boat.

[Rob Mahoney]

Well, she drinks for an amount of time that would then knock her out for however much time would require to wake up the next morning.

[Jorda Robinson]

Just impressive.

[Rob Mahoney]

So 24 hours. Yeah, 24 hours. Combination drinking, blacking out, being hauled to Crystal's boat, or walking there and stumbling there for own volition. Ish. And then waking up there. That's a busy day.

[Jorda Robinson]

She goes to the. The Katie household. She sees consent King Luke.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yep.

[Jorda Robinson]

Bobby Katie, and good old Hester.

[Rob Mahoney]

How do you feel about Hester in this episode?

[Jorda Robinson]

How do you feel about her little Crystal baby doll that she seems like she breastfeeds? How do you feel about that?

[Rob Mahoney]

She sure does. I feel like I've seen a lot from kooky side characters in these sorts of stories.

[Jorda Robinson]

Sure.

[Rob Mahoney]

You meet the relative, the friend, the, like, source of information. They speak in riddles. They're talking backwards. They're maybe revealing a little too much at times where they would or other people would prefer they not. I've seen a lot from those characters in many different texts. I have never seen one breastfeed a doll a single time. And so I think we have no choice but to salute Hester for innovation

[Jorda Robinson]

in this space and Cape Fear for innovating in the space of prestige television.

[Rob Mahoney]

Have you ever seen that before?

[Jorda Robinson]

Not on television. Not at all.

[Rob Mahoney]

Okay.

[Jorda Robinson]

Not at all. Baby dolls in general.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah.

[Jorda Robinson]

Creepy. A baby doll that you think is your daughter. Creepier.

[Rob Mahoney]

Charming.

[Jorda Robinson]

Oh. Goes to charming and then back around to creepy once you start breastfeeding it.

[Rob Mahoney]

I think so.

[Jorda Robinson]

Okay. That's the trajectory.

[Rob Mahoney]

Were you never a doll child?

[Jorda Robinson]

I had like an army of Barbies. Okay. But not like a baby. Baby dolls. The baby dolls are forever haunted to me.

[Rob Mahoney]

And they, like. Speaking of innovation, they're always creating very strange baby dolls that, like, will burn or pee or consume food. It's like we don't need them that true to life, you know?

[Jorda Robinson]

Absolutely not.

[Rob Mahoney]

I think that makes them only creepy. We're really entering into an uncanny valley of baby dolling, and I'm here to put a stop to it.

[Jorda Robinson]

I actually don't know what the recent innovation in Baby dolling has been because.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yes, you do.

[Jorda Robinson]

No, because they were like wedding themselves in the 90s. So what are they doing now?

[Rob Mahoney]

They are like weird AI sentient machines

[Jorda Robinson]

like Furbies, but babies.

[Rob Mahoney]

Worse.

[Jorda Robinson]

Tough. Really tough. Luke, you know, intercedes so that Anakin leaves.

[Rob Mahoney]

It's true again.

[Jorda Robinson]

Once again, consent King Luke. Just being like you. Go your way, we'll be fine.

[Rob Mahoney]

How do you feel about it? Yes. Escalating.

[Jorda Robinson]

Yeah, I think he's feels like a hero to you.

[Rob Mahoney]

He is the coolest head in this story up until the moment he starts pistol whipping people.

[Jorda Robinson]

And as you said, I might puzzle with Ron Perlman as well. Max is in the hospital. He's on a drip. Yeah, we still have questions about whether or not Zack's taking his meds. But Max is on his meds in this moment and he sees the AI slob son and his ghost wife and says, I have just a few things

[Rob Mahoney]

to do, Our lady of Banks, and

[Jorda Robinson]

then I can join you. Is that what he says? So like, does he plan to die? Is that the idea?

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah. He needs to torment the bowdoins a

[Jorda Robinson]

little more and then he wants to die.

[Rob Mahoney]

Agitate Tom, maybe kill one of Anna's kids, make her feel the pain that he felt. At this point it's just an either or.

[Jorda Robinson]

Both of those cases taunt Tom into killing himself, murder both the children, then kill Anna once she has registered all of that, and then die. That's the to do list.

[Rob Mahoney]

No, no, he doesn't. I don't think he wants to kill Anna.

[Jorda Robinson]

Oh, live with the suffering.

[Rob Mahoney]

Live with the guilt, the suffering, the responsibility, the torment of not being able to do anything to improve her circumstances. I think that's all part of the plan. Meanwhile, he's peacing out to hang out with AI Slop son and his b banged wife.

[Jorda Robinson]

Speaking of AI Slop son, Zach is still seeing him. How do you feel about this? Is Zach on his meds? Off his meds? What is he doing?

[Rob Mahoney]

Everything with Zach is very confusing. I think he is off his meds. Or at least they're not working. It's not the right prescription. It's not the right dosage. Right.

[Jorda Robinson]

Crystal's fine.

[Rob Mahoney]

She's clearly quite adjusted.

[Jorda Robinson]

Doing fine.

[Rob Mahoney]

She's doing better than she's ever done before.

[Jorda Robinson]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Rob Mahoney]

She grew up in a crate. She was then abused, presumably by Max.

[Jorda Robinson]

Uh huh.

[Rob Mahoney]

And now she's at least independent. She's on her own. She's trying to live a life on her little houseboat groom in a crate. I Mean, didn't she?

[Jorda Robinson]

I think had some crate time.

[Rob Mahoney]

Sometimes I think that's too much. I would argue. You may disagree, Joe. Any crate time is too much crate time for a child.

[Jorda Robinson]

That depends on the child. I think probably does. All right. Do you think Zack himself broke himself out, or do you think Max brought him out?

[Rob Mahoney]

I do think he broke himself out. How are you feeling about that?

[Jorda Robinson]

Where is he going?

[Rob Mahoney]

Fuck if I know on that.

[Jorda Robinson]

But he wants to go fishing.

[Rob Mahoney]

He does want to go fishing. Maybe he'll just go to Cape Fear on his own. Honestly, an end of this season in which all the characters independently decide to go to Cape Fear River, I would support it.

[Jorda Robinson]

Okay.

[Rob Mahoney]

But I just think Max is way too busy. Like, he's trying to track down Anna. That's his prime pit strike.

[Jorda Robinson]

Well, he's sitting outside of the hospital. Is it at one point when. When he's talking to Tom and he's like, and where's Zach? He's three windows over on the third floor of the.

[Rob Mahoney]

Up the second stair. The finger scampering up the stairs. Tremendous work.

[Jorda Robinson]

So he knows exactly where he's. I think. I thought he was, like, sitting outside of the institution when he was talking to Tom on the phone.

[Rob Mahoney]

He absolutely knows where Zach is supposed to be. I don't know if that was outside the building or not. I kind of took it as. He's taking it as a given that Natalie's over here locked up. Zach is over here kind of locked up. Let me track down Anna with singular focus while I can. And Tom, we're just going to taunt him, basically.

[Jorda Robinson]

In the meantime, speaking of Natalie and Nevaeh in prison, do you want to talk about the biscuit incident?

[Rob Mahoney]

I mean, they are the currency in prison, are they not?

[Jorda Robinson]

I don't know. But the soy sauce, the Kikoman soy sauce.

[Rob Mahoney]

Okay. That's real. I think a lot.

[Jorda Robinson]

Tell me more. You got so excited about that.

[Rob Mahoney]

Not in prison. I just think a lot of people out there would be very surprised to learn that the secret sauce of their favorite restaurant or the like is Kikkoman Choice. Proprietary aioli is really just Kikkoman soy sauce and mayo mixed together with, like, lemon juice.

[Jorda Robinson]

Um, aioli often has soy sauce in it.

[Rob Mahoney]

It can.

[Jorda Robinson]

Oh, okay.

[Rob Mahoney]

I mean, aioli is just any variation of mayonnaise.

[Jorda Robinson]

Well, I know. Yes. Okay. I just think when I think of, like, aioli.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yes.

[Jorda Robinson]

I think of just, like, lemon plus mayo. Is that an incredibly white of me? How Caucasian of me?

[Rob Mahoney]

It is a little bit. Here's the Thing White. White mayonnaise. Never a condiment on its own. Right. Like, it needs help. It needs a lot of help to become aioli, to become a proper. Like something you would actually use or dip. What?

[Jorda Robinson]

Like a tuna salad? You wouldn't just put mayo in a tuna salad, Joe.

[Commercial Narrator]

What?

[Jorda Robinson]

Okay.

[Rob Mahoney]

You're just putting just tuna and mayo and calling it good.

[Jorda Robinson]

Yeah.

[Rob Mahoney]

No, yeah, no.

[Jorda Robinson]

Yeah.

[Rob Mahoney]

You're sounding a lot like Nevaeh with her pouches of tuna right now. And I'm very concerned for you.

[Jorda Robinson]

You think that's a fish based crime? If I just put tuna and mayo together, I think I just don't like relish. So, like, a lot of people put like, relish or celery or whatever. And I just don't like that in tuna salad. So I do just enjoy tuna and mayo together.

[Rob Mahoney]

I think the first fish based crime is tuna salad and the second fish based crime is whatever you're doing with tuna salad.

[Jorda Robinson]

So you're just like, not worth talking. What about egg salad?

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah, but it has mustard in it, it has dill in it. It has other things.

[Jorda Robinson]

You're right. You're right. I was proud of Natalie in this episode for sure. Okay. She refused to give up the biscuit, as it were.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah. Well, literally, but not metaphorically.

[Jorda Robinson]

Yeah. Then gave up the biscuit. Strategically gave up the biscuit when she needed to with a plan. And this is all we've been asking for from the bones is like a fucking plan.

[Rob Mahoney]

A little foresight.

[Jorda Robinson]

Yeah. And she. She knew about the burner.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah.

[Jorda Robinson]

I have some tips for Nevaeh. If you wanna secretly have a burner cell phone conversation. Just standing facing the corner of the open yard is not how I would do it personally. What do you think?

[Rob Mahoney]

With your hand to the phone to your ear.

[Jorda Robinson]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Rob Mahoney]

Not the most subtle.

[Jorda Robinson]

No, no, no.

[Rob Mahoney]

It doesn't surprise me that the guards are asleep at the wheel at this particular facility, but some other inmate is gonna see you, even if it's not Natalie.

[Commercial Narrator]

Right.

[Jorda Robinson]

And then Natalie. So gets into the room first, finds the burner in the, like, red book that it's sitting there in.

[Rob Mahoney]

Do you know what it was?

[Jorda Robinson]

Not the Bible. But what was it?

[Rob Mahoney]

It's not the Bible.

[Jorda Robinson]

Fish based crimes.

[Rob Mahoney]

Hilariously. It is a copy of how to Win Friends and Influence People.

[Jorda Robinson]

Chef's kiss. Come on the show.

[Rob Mahoney]

That's what I'm saying. Every time I'm like, mildly annoyed by something, I'm like.

[Jorda Robinson]

They pull you back in.

[Rob Mahoney]

They really do.

[Jorda Robinson]

Okay. Gives it the biscuit and then gets like, just clumsily leads Nevaeh into some confession time. Really. I felt really disappointed in Nevaeh.

[Rob Mahoney]

Wow. For wanting human connection in her level

[Jorda Robinson]

of intelligence in this episode. Do you think she's more easily accessible? Because she's, like. Doesn't have access to the scopolamine, so she's less under the thrall. What do you think?

[Rob Mahoney]

I think she's probably hit a bit of a end point in terms of Max's natural influence. Like, what he can convince her out of the love of his fatherly heart. I'm starting to think he's maybe not a good dad.

[Jorda Robinson]

Oh, okay.

[Rob Mahoney]

And I think she may be onto that.

[Jorda Robinson]

But he said, I love you so much. And he sounded like he meant it.

[Rob Mahoney]

You know, it has to be his. Like, I say this out of Javier Bardem, but Max Cady's least convincing performance on record. What he is saying to Nevaeh over the phone and the sleepy, unimpressed way in which he does it, like, doesn't even think he needs to work at it anymore. I mean, deeply into Tommy Wiseau territory on that phone call. And so I think it is just like she was hoping to have some kind of actual connection with her father by now. It has not come to pass. He clearly does not give a shit.

[Jorda Robinson]

I guess I'll fuck my sister instead. Kayfir rules.

[Rob Mahoney]

Well, she doesn't know, does she?

[Jorda Robinson]

They had a conversation about it. I didn't get you pregnant, did I?

[Rob Mahoney]

Oh, you're right. They actually did. Yeah. They put the incest right out on the table and neither one of them was deterred by it whatsoever.

[Jorda Robinson]

Well, I think Natalie at least had, like, an end game here.

[Rob Mahoney]

She had endgame.

[Jorda Robinson]

I gave my sister to get this recording.

[Rob Mahoney]

She didn't stop for a second. There was no moment of hesitation.

[Jorda Robinson]

Like, I barreled straight into incest.

[Rob Mahoney]

Even if you are going to manipulate sexually your sibling, I would think a lot of people would have just, like, a little gag reflex moment. Natalie is built different.

[Jorda Robinson]

Prison changes you.

[Rob Mahoney]

It changes you. But they both found a prison girlfriend real fast. Like, just. Just stumbling into cliches, these two.

[Jorda Robinson]

Did you feel for Nevaeh when Natalie got out and Noah was there to pick her up?

[Rob Mahoney]

I actually. I would say I felt for Nevaeh on the call. And some of it is, like, the performance and where this character is. Are just, like, so, like, for lack of. Like I say, it's empathetic. Like, pitiful. Like, it's just a sad moment for this character who has gone to these incredible lengths. And she clearly wants to stop short of actual murder, but is being like egged on ever so lightly by her dad who does not care about her.

[Jorda Robinson]

I think what's interesting is earlier in the season, you and I thought Nevaeh was someone who was quite eager to murder. She just like had that knife out, just like seemed like she really wanted to murder. So is it that she objects to murder in general or is that she objects to murdering Natalie, her sister, who she's come to care for in a biscuit way?

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah, see, at first I was kind of wondering, is Nevaeh reverse playing Natalie in this kind of encounter moment? Like, are they both trying to get closer to each other? Spy versus Spy style.

[Jorda Robinson]

A deadly tango.

[Rob Mahoney]

This is what I was thinking, but I think everything we see after the fact in the, you know, post prison nut clarity is Nevaeh at her most vulnerable that she's been all season. Is that not a thing you heard

[Jorda Robinson]

me say in a biscuit way? And you were like, I got a one over with post prison nut. Clary, you're very special.

[Rob Mahoney]

Thank you.

[Jorda Robinson]

All right, that refresh you've been putting off until the right deal came along.

[Commercial Narrator]

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[Jorda Robinson]

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[Jorda Robinson]

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[Rob Mahoney]

Hey, it's Ryan Reynolds here from Mint Mobile. Now I was looking for fun ways to tell you that Mint's offer of unlimited Premium Wireless for $15 a month is back. So I thought it would be fun if we made $15 bills. But it turns out that's very illegal. So there goes my big idea for the commercial. Give it a [e-mail] Switch upfront payment

[Commercial Narrator]

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[Rob Mahoney]

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[Jorda Robinson]

Let's go back to Crystal and Anna. I love this dynamic. Crystal fucking hates Anna. Okay, so what we learn about Crystal, which I. I don't think it was incredibly clear before this episode or entirely clear, is that, well, she killed Melissa. That's interesting information. Yeah. What role did she have in all of the Amy stuff? I actually don't feel like we know that full story. But she was friends with Amy. Did she serve Amy up in some way to Max?

[Rob Mahoney]

Could have been, or at least been his kind of boots on the ground there.

[Jorda Robinson]

But no matter what between Amy and Melissa. Cause earlier in the season, we heard her say, I warned them about him. And I took that to mean, like, he fucked me up. So I don't. As a girl's girl, I don't want any other woman to go through that. That does not seem to be what's going on with Crystal here. Crystal is like, he's mine.

[Rob Mahoney]

By warning you.

[Jorda Robinson]

Back off, ladies.

[Rob Mahoney]

They didn't seem to take the advice called Anna Princess.

[Jorda Robinson]

Okay, here's one of the worst writing in this episode, I think, which is like, do you learn that from your sorority sisters? And then Anna goes, maybe I taught their boyfriends and their boyfriends taught them.

[Rob Mahoney]

This is the weird energy I was talking about. I was like, what is this?

[Jorda Robinson]

What is that? Can I blame on writing more than anything else?

[Rob Mahoney]

Can I single out some of the best writing in this episode?

[Jorda Robinson]

Oh, please.

[Rob Mahoney]

I mean, we moved on maybe too quickly from Nevaeh and Natalie, but he told me to break into your house and spike the tea with acid and to seduce your brother and make him bite off his own toe. I just sometimes have to sit back and appreciate that this is a line from an actual show we are watching and covering in great detail. And that's just a factual statement that they have made.

[Jorda Robinson]

Sometimes when someone's recording you, you need to get very explicit and plain spoken about the crimes that you committed.

[Rob Mahoney]

But also, why the toe? Like, what was the point of specifically, this kid needs to bite off his own toe.

[Jorda Robinson]

We've been talking about that toe all season. It was such, like, a horrifying thing to have happen.

[Rob Mahoney]

Oh, for sure.

[Jorda Robinson]

I think it's a great idea that Max had.

[Rob Mahoney]

I just thought maybe it was more incidental.

[Jorda Robinson]

Let's maim them. Let's maim the child, I guess.

[Rob Mahoney]

But just like specifically, he Needs to think of a baby carrot and bite off his own toe. Thinkofabycarrotmail.com for all of your Cape Fear questions, concerns, theories.

[Jorda Robinson]

Also, if you're with me on the tuna salad front, it really doesn't need much more than tuna and mayo. Honestly, I just. And like a really nice piece of toasted, like wheaty oaty bread. That's it?

[Rob Mahoney]

No, thank you.

[Jorda Robinson]

That's the energy.

[Rob Mahoney]

I would say there's a third confirmation in this episode. It's one, that Crystal is Luke's mom at minimum, and that probably Max is his dad.

[Jorda Robinson]

Two, I think Max is his dad, definitely.

[Rob Mahoney]

But you don't think. You think Crystal might not be his mom.

[Jorda Robinson]

Again, what about this Melissa theory?

[Rob Mahoney]

Maybe that's a half confirmation, but that Crystal did kill Melissa. Yeah, we feel confident about that.

[Jorda Robinson]

She seemed like she confessed to it.

[Rob Mahoney]

It seemed to be everything, but at

[Jorda Robinson]

least she didn't deserve that kind of life.

[Rob Mahoney]

And third, that Crystal, as we suggested in previous episodes, is the Lila from the story that Max has been telling. Earlier.

[Jorda Robinson]

Max got really inventive and was like, instead of Delilah. Lila, good sleuthing work from Anna.

[Rob Mahoney]

I don't know about that.

[Jorda Robinson]

She's rifling around like, once again, Crystal loves to keep all of her stuff in just like a little slop pile on on a surface. Right.

[Rob Mahoney]

We have auto. We have our stuff on a slot board. Are we any better?

[Jorda Robinson]

Absolutely. There are categories. There are pushpins and there's string. This is just merely slopped onto the table. And Anna sort of rifles through. She does and finds exactly the piece of information she needs. Ah, Delilah. She must be Lila.

[Rob Mahoney]

I have this written down. Tell me if this is anything.

[Jorda Robinson]

I think you're really underestimating Anna in this episode. Am I? Yeah.

[Rob Mahoney]

This is what I have written down. Hey there, Delilah. What's it like in Cape Fear City? Anna's snooping in your boat and now she knows you're Crystal.

[Jorda Robinson]

Katie.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yes, it's true. Is that anything? Is that a thing? Joe, you gotta give me something. What you got? Are you gonna finish it out?

[Jorda Robinson]

Can I just say that, like, that came on when I was in the sprouts the other day. Then it's such like, grocery store music now. Hey there, Delilah. And I was just like, like Pavlovian, like, muttering the lyrics to myself as I was in the produce section. Like, I couldn't help myself. I was mesmerized. But I was like, oh, this is what it' to like. When we were younger, walked around a grocery store and it was just Muzak playing. And our parents would be like, that's the power of love, you know? But it's playing YT's now.

[Rob Mahoney]

So did you feel, like, lulled into a state of, like, capitalistic coercion? Like, because you're muttering these words?

[Jorda Robinson]

Did you just see the Pussycat style?

[Rob Mahoney]

I think, like, a little bit of hypnosis so that you'll, you know, grab

[Jorda Robinson]

the thing you don't need off the shelf. I did, I did.

[Rob Mahoney]

Alfonso, you gotta get the good mangoes. I'm telling you.

[Jorda Robinson]

That was incredible work from you.

[Rob Mahoney]

Thank you.

[Jorda Robinson]

You're welcome. Amy's stepmom, Brenda, had a pet raccoon. And I just think that's an important piece of information that we learned in this episode.

[Rob Mahoney]

Rest in peace, too.

[Jorda Robinson]

Yeah, yeah. And then just everything we learn about Crystal doing donuts in the Piggly Wiggly, the guard that she dated. Cause she's hot and crazy. Like, I got in a fight with a window. That's how I got this scar. Is that how she got that scar? I don't know.

[Rob Mahoney]

Unclear.

[Jorda Robinson]

I mean, I just think Juliette Lewis is, like, every single line delivery is really, really fun and exciting.

[Rob Mahoney]

This is my problem with Anna, as a counterpoint, who I think we've had frustrations with throughout the season for various reasons.

[Jorda Robinson]

She's a bit mayonnaise for you.

[Rob Mahoney]

She's a little bit mayonnaise.

[Jorda Robinson]

I mean, and you want a spicy aioli. You want to mix that Kikkoman in.

[Rob Mahoney]

I want. I want an entirely different condiment. I'm not sure that whatever condiment Crystal Katie is makes sense with whatever you're trying to make happen, but if you had a whole Crystal breakout episode, if half of this season was just following Crystal around, I would have loved it.

[Jorda Robinson]

This season needed way more Crystal. Katy, Like, I understand the, like, fun surprise of holding Juliette Lewis back and then just, like, surprising and delighting us, but once we had her, like, we should have held onto her because she's gold. And this is what happens with. This is what happened with Yellowjackets. Juliette Lewis was, like, the lifeblood of Yellowjack. One of. There's a few others. But, like, she left. That show just went all the way downhill after Juliette Lewis left. If you have the Lewis, you use the Lewis. That's what I'm saying.

[Rob Mahoney]

Self explanatory.

[Jorda Robinson]

Yeah.

[Rob Mahoney]

Everything about the weirdness of that character, what she's bringing to the performance, even the physical parts of it where when she walks around, she has a weird, like, wispy thing she's doing with her arms. I'm just like, I just want to know everything about this woman.

[Jorda Robinson]

And I also just don't know how much of that is crystal and how much of that is just Juliet Lewis. Juliette Lewis ing around.

[Rob Mahoney]

Can we talk about Amy Brancato's conspiracy board?

[Jorda Robinson]

I would love to.

[Rob Mahoney]

Which? Tomato sauce? Or not aspirational. There's just a lot there. I know.

[Jorda Robinson]

Oh, freeze free. Mahoney. Were you on the case?

[Rob Mahoney]

Of course I was on the case. Well, we've seen glimpses of it earlier in the season when Amy shoots herself in the head twice.

[Jorda Robinson]

It's how the tomato soup got there in the first place.

[Rob Mahoney]

We needed to see the origin story of the tomato soup. At that time, we criticized some of the headlines, which are like, guilty with an exclamation point. Or my least favorite that we see here, Prosecution lays out Katie murder case. No. Speaking of mayonnaise, I have a new favorite, though.

[Jorda Robinson]

Has anyone ever told you your writing was mayonnaise? Did an editor ever be like, you gotta kikuman up that headline. It's a little mayonnaise.

[Rob Mahoney]

First of all, I'm insulted.

[Jorda Robinson]

We've all written a single mayonnaise headline in our lifetime.

[Rob Mahoney]

I mean, I'm sure it's happened, but I would hope that the editors I'm working with are kind enough to not say that to my face.

[Jorda Robinson]

Editor's not notoriously kind.

[Rob Mahoney]

Would you like to hear a headline that is not mayonnaise?

[Jorda Robinson]

Please.

[Rob Mahoney]

My absolute favorite on this collage. I really love it. I think it's gonna need to go on the board at the end of this episode. It simply says, swamp law. How we've been. We've been barking up so many of the wrong trees.

[Jorda Robinson]

We're like swamplawmail.com.

[Rob Mahoney]

well, first of all, how do we get Max Cady a restraining order? How do we keep him away from the Bowdoin kids? Like, what has he tried for in a conventional legal system? But this is swamp law.

[Jorda Robinson]

Yeah, it's like Main Justice.

[Rob Mahoney]

The rules are all different. And I feel like maybe Anna is a little overmatched when it comes to swamplaw.

[Jorda Robinson]

Okay, how does the gator bong play into swamplaw?

[Rob Mahoney]

Do you think they're legal? First of all, that's not an accessory.

[Jorda Robinson]

Okay, I've already asked you this burner phone question. If you're leaving a noose in the cell of your enemy, is it a nice, fluffy bedsheet noose? What are we doing? I guess we're doing. We're working with what we have.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah, what's the alternative.

[Jorda Robinson]

I just found that. And I'm sorry to critique the fine work of the inmates of this particular establishment, but I found that noose to be quite like, sort of like fluffy and cozy looking. I think we needed to shred the sheets a bit more and get something that looked a bit more menacing than that particular noose.

[Rob Mahoney]

Well, I would say this one.

[Jorda Robinson]

Cause you're not looking to cradle your neck in comfort, find Egyptian cotton when you're, you know, being driven to suicide.

[Rob Mahoney]

But you are looking for plausibility, right? And so it's like, if this man did kill himself, wouldn't he. Like, he's not gonna do it with something he doesn't already have in his room. So, yeah, the only options.

[Jorda Robinson]

Shred up the sheets.

[Rob Mahoney]

Does that actually change anything?

[Jorda Robinson]

Yeah, you get like a sort of like a ropier, naughtier sort of situation.

[Rob Mahoney]

Maybe. But does Tom Bowden know how to do that?

[Jorda Robinson]

Tom Bowden doesn't know how to do anything.

[Rob Mahoney]

He really doesn't. Although I would argue this whole ploy from Max. Do you think he actually thinks it might work, nudging Tom to the point of hanging himself?

[Jorda Robinson]

Yes, because I think he thinks Tom is a beta cuck that can be talked into killing himself. He talked Amy Brancato into killing himself. Also, what's possible right now is that Max is just overplaying his hand across the board.

[Rob Mahoney]

I think that may be true. You know, and I wondered, based off of his reactions, if he actually cared if Tom did it or not or if it was just to kind of antagonize him a bit. Just kind of like.

[Jorda Robinson]

Yeah, just a bit of fun.

[Rob Mahoney]

I'm bored. I'm looking for Anna. Let me do this. But if it was intended to work, I know Tom idolized his brother. Clearly he is playing into this idea that was explored earlier in the season of, like, Tom needs control, right? He wants, like, something he can do to save his family. And Max is kind of pushing him in that direction. I just think, given his relationship with his brother and his brother's suicide, why would he visit that trauma on his own family by then killing himself? It just doesn't really add up as something that might actually work.

[Jorda Robinson]

Here's what I'll say about Max Cady. He cares enough to find out about the brother when I don't even think Anna knows about what happened with the brother. Wow.

[Rob Mahoney]

You're saying Max is the truest partner that Tom has ever had.

[Jorda Robinson]

You know, bars in hell. But here we are. The Max and Noah scene. Yeah, I Was worried for a second that Max was going to kill every black character on this show. And I was like, please don't. But Noah survives. She's just sort of like, fuck you.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah.

[Jorda Robinson]

And she survives the encounter.

[Rob Mahoney]

She gets stood to.

[Jorda Robinson]

Did you think she was gonna make it out of that room alive? I thought she was really okay. I was worried the door was closed.

[Rob Mahoney]

I just don't think Max is feeling the need to act less and less. Right. Like, he's more just menacing here than lying. But I don't think he's to the point of killing people in offices with lots of witnesses around.

[Jorda Robinson]

I don't know. I just. Like, we're in the end game now. I feel like anything goes, but it might. She made it out. She was not intimidated.

[Rob Mahoney]

No, not a bit.

[Jorda Robinson]

He got the information he needed anyway. He did leave her with a you look beautiful kissy face moment, which I thought was peak. Bardem.

[Rob Mahoney]

Bardem is just bringing it week to week, moment to moment, scene to scene. But yeah, I think Max as a character, just the fact that he is here in the first place, he's getting desperate, Right. Like he is trying to figure out how to track down Anna. Nevaeh was supposed to squeeze Natalie, I guess. Did squeeze Natalie. Did not work as far as the information gathering goes.

[Jorda Robinson]

Right. Cause Natalie squeezed Nevaeh.

[Rob Mahoney]

I think they kind of squeezed each other.

[Jorda Robinson]

They sure did.

[Rob Mahoney]

He tried going at Noah here. He gets nowhere. Fortunately, Anna's in a very convenient place with lots of other people to tell him where to go. So all's well.

[Jorda Robinson]

The moment where Anna says to Crystal, you don't have anything he wants. And then Crystal's like, uh, oh, I got you, though, girly. You know what I mean?

[Rob Mahoney]

This is your sleuth, Anna.

[Jorda Robinson]

She does a really good job of

[Rob Mahoney]

sleep, your crack detective.

[Jorda Robinson]

She gets away. That was like a real biting fantasy layer of sarcasm from you. I didn't enjoy it. She gets the usb. She gets away.

[Rob Mahoney]

She does. Well, she knows Max's weakness. Water.

[Jorda Robinson]

He can't swim.

[Rob Mahoney]

Jump in the water.

[Jorda Robinson]

I don't know if he even sees her.

[Rob Mahoney]

I don't think so. Yeah.

[Jorda Robinson]

Cause she's off the back of the boat, right? And he's too distracted by the chucklefuck members of his family and what they're doing at the front of the boat.

[Rob Mahoney]

Well, one of them is blind and angry and waving around a gun and pistol whipping his father.

[Jorda Robinson]

Yeah.

[Rob Mahoney]

So there's a lot happening.

[Jorda Robinson]

Yeah, there's a lot going on. But yeah, Anna swims away. I don't Know, she gets a lot of information, she finds out who the real killer was and she gets away. I think Anna did a great job in this episode. I don't think River Cartwright on slow horses could do any better, I'll tell you that much right now.

[Rob Mahoney]

Well, famous fuck up River Cartwright, if the point is that Anna could be a slow horse or beat a slow

[Jorda Robinson]

horse, I think she could definitely beat a slow horse. And the bar's where the bar is.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah.

[Jorda Robinson]

She does get a knife through her hand, though.

[Rob Mahoney]

A fish knife.

[Jorda Robinson]

Okay. Why a fish knife more than anything else is tough for you to see.

[Rob Mahoney]

Well, they just took it off the table with the fish guts.

[Jorda Robinson]

Oh, with the fish guts.

[Rob Mahoney]

That's guts straight into your hand.

[Jorda Robinson]

Like not just a fish knife, but a fishy knife.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yes.

[Jorda Robinson]

A lot of fish based crimes in this episode.

[Rob Mahoney]

A lot. I mean, well, we get the very menacing pile of fish heads when Anna rolls up and it's like nothing good is gonna happen. Once you see the pile of fish heads.

[Jorda Robinson]

Correct.

[Rob Mahoney]

Then she offers Anna a beer from the cooler. That also just has a bunch of dead fish in there. As you would. Gotta keep in mind a nice crisp morning beer and morning fish.

[Jorda Robinson]

Yeah. I just love that the opening credits, when Anna wakes up in the boat and the Cape Fear sort of logo goes out or whatever. It's just like Crystal's just unbothered. Having a beer and catching some fish on the side of the dock.

[Rob Mahoney]

It's true.

[Jorda Robinson]

Just living her life.

[Rob Mahoney]

Can I give one note on that scene, though?

[Jorda Robinson]

Oh, please.

[Rob Mahoney]

Why can't the boat be adrift? Why can't we be on the lap?

[Jorda Robinson]

I was sort of hoping it would be on when we did, like the pull out. I was hoping we would be at sea.

[Rob Mahoney]

I know it's not Nomad by Etsy.

[Jorda Robinson]

I mean a river.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah. Cause clearly it's a river. So you could just jump out and swim to the shore. But I feel like just it's on the dock.

[Jorda Robinson]

Yeah.

[Rob Mahoney]

It maybe gives it takes away some of the charge that you're getting in that moment.

[Jorda Robinson]

That's true. Settle down, son. You're gonna get some crate time. As you mentioned, you think zero crate time is what Luke should have received in his lifetime? It doesn't seem to be the case.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah.

[Jorda Robinson]

A secret son. I don't know. How do you like. This is a really interesting development, especially since, like earlier in the episode, he was introduced as like just a kid we have watching the dogs.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yes.

[Jorda Robinson]

So why if he's just. They're hiding him because he's Max's son.

[Rob Mahoney]

That, presumably.

[Jorda Robinson]

And if Max knows that he has a son, he'll get weird about it.

[Rob Mahoney]

But does he know?

[Jorda Robinson]

No, I'm just saying that's the reason to hide and lie about his identity.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah. I'm just not so certain that Max doesn't already know. And frankly, I think it's a little unclear when Anna does call him to say, I figured it out. I know who did the murder. Also, you have a secret son you supposedly given up for adoption. Never happened. He's right here at your father's house the whole time. I mean, Bardem gives this, like, kind of sly smile that's either Anna, you're wildly off base, or, like, just, like, finding another way to toy with her with this particular story. Oh, I already knew that. Yeah. Like, maybe kind of amused that she's putting things together. So I really don't know what's true or what's not from that perspective at this point. But I agree with you. It probably does make the most sense in terms of narrative closure for Luke to be Adam. I just. I don't know if that's where we're headed. Is this a show for narrative closure? It doesn't seem like it.

[Jorda Robinson]

Only one more episode by now. Anything we haven't talked about that you want to make sure we hid?

[Rob Mahoney]

I do want to circle back to Zach for a second.

[Jorda Robinson]

Your favorite.

[Rob Mahoney]

Well, I mean, always. I would like to put it to you. You know, you asked me, like, do I think he escaped from the facility? Did someone come and get him? Did Max come and get him? Like, what is there for him to do at this point? Like, we can put out the apb. Weird kid, four toes, strange vibe, you

[Jorda Robinson]

know, nine toes, to be fair.

[Rob Mahoney]

Well, fair enough. Thinks he's AI slob, you know, responds to Adam. But what is he up to? What would he be trying to do?

[Jorda Robinson]

Find Max? I guess I just can't. When Tom calls him on the burner. Nokia.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah.

[Jorda Robinson]

And is like, is it you? Right. That's a sort of like, have you broken the spell? Is it you? And he's like, it is me.

[Rob Mahoney]

For the record, it's been, like, 24

[Jorda Robinson]

hours, and I kind of believe that it is him. Yeah. But then he sees the AI slop, son, and so that's maybe shakes it loose, settling. I don't know.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah. It's also clear we should say that Zack does not know that his father has been accused of murder in his current.

[Jorda Robinson]

No, he's like, we're doing fine, y'.

[Rob Mahoney]

All. We're missing you at home.

[Jorda Robinson]

Don't. Don't worry about the prison sounds you hear in the background.

[Rob Mahoney]

Made a new picture.

[Jorda Robinson]

A storm's still a brewin.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah.

[Jorda Robinson]

What else do you want for the finale?

[Rob Mahoney]

I need that tree to fall in the bone backyard.

[Jorda Robinson]

Oh, okay.

[Rob Mahoney]

I don't know if we're going back there, though. Is everything gonna be pointing to Cape Fear river, or is all the action gonna be there?

[Jorda Robinson]

That's a lot of characters to get up to Cape Fear River.

[Rob Mahoney]

That's true. I feel like the action has to split up a little bit or maybe everyone needs to come back to Savannah. And also, we should say just in Cape Fear terms, based on the previous movies. I feel like there always is. Maybe this is a mild spoiler. So if you don't wanna hear anything about the movies, jump ahead like 30 seconds. But there's always kind of a big showdown around the house, and I feel like we haven't gotten that.

[Jorda Robinson]

Okay, so you want everyone back at the Bowdoin.

[Rob Mahoney]

I would like it.

[Jorda Robinson]

Homestead plus.

[Rob Mahoney]

I mean, very tasteful greenery around there. Some great wallpapering.

[Jorda Robinson]

Also, you were telling me before we started recording that if you don't get to see Lexi in the finale, you're gonna riot.

[Rob Mahoney]

I'm a little upset that she just has been kicked to the curb.

[Jorda Robinson]

Yeah.

[Rob Mahoney]

Or maybe she's partnered by now. Maybe it's all good for. Honestly, if you're not appearing on Cape Fear and you live in Savannah, I think your life is going pretty good.

[Jorda Robinson]

Everything's going well for you. Do we need the detectives to come back and be involved in some way?

[Rob Mahoney]

Just glib it up.

[Jorda Robinson]

They gotta die, I would think.

[Rob Mahoney]

You think they need to die.

[Jorda Robinson]

They've been really bad at their jobs, I think. And really, like, snide while being bad at their job.

[Rob Mahoney]

So the cops need to die. The kids need to go in the crate. Yep. Anyone else you want to point in any particular direction?

[Jorda Robinson]

Mayo and tuna on a sandwich is great.

[Rob Mahoney]

Good lord. First Randy Newman, and now this.

[Jorda Robinson]

Should we go to the board?

[Rob Mahoney]

Let's go to the board. All right.

[Jorda Robinson]

This is our second to last opportunity to put stuff on the board.

[Rob Mahoney]

I'm honestly sad about it.

[Jorda Robinson]

I know.

[Rob Mahoney]

Not that we have room.

[Jorda Robinson]

It's looking great. Honestly, I think it's some of the

[Rob Mahoney]

best work we've ever done.

[Jorda Robinson]

I really agree. I'm gonna start us off strong. It's the title of the episode. Big Old Scar.

[Rob Mahoney]

It's a big one.

[Jorda Robinson]

It's a big old scar.

[Rob Mahoney]

Not a lot of explanation on said Scar.

[Jorda Robinson]

I don't think a fish knife made it.

[Rob Mahoney]

I really hope not. How about Amy Brancado's homemade tomato soup? It's all over her board. It's not on ours yet. I hope it never will be.

[Jorda Robinson]

Probably should have said tomato bisque. Bisque is just inherently funnier than soup.

[Rob Mahoney]

So much grosser though somehow.

[Jorda Robinson]

Baby doll Katie. Did I misspell it? Don't worry about it. Baby doll Katie.

[Rob Mahoney]

One other relic from the Katie family. The flash drive that is now river soaked and in no way should be functional.

[Jorda Robinson]

Waterproof. Question mark.

[Rob Mahoney]

I do not know of one.

[Jorda Robinson]

I don't know why you gave me this card because this is your beautiful turn of phrase. Thank you. Prison post nut clarity.

[Rob Mahoney]

Well, I gave it to you because I took one of yours in turn. Which is Natalie's biscuit. A phrase we used more on this episode than I frankly feel comfortable with.

[Jorda Robinson]

Here's something we forgot to talk about, but Melissa's tacky heart necklace.

[Rob Mahoney]

Gotta talk about it.

[Jorda Robinson]

It's important. It seems to be a clue in the swamplaw case.

[Rob Mahoney]

Why do you think it's important? Was it the initial holding camera shot of it in the photograph? Or the residual like the returns to it periodically, every so often?

[Jorda Robinson]

I just think if the story is this. If the story is that Max treated Crystal like trash, but treated Melissa like gold. And this is this fucking Claire's boutique necklace is what he's giving her.

[Rob Mahoney]

Costume jewelry.

[Jorda Robinson]

Yeah.

[Rob Mahoney]

Aspire to better, you know, if you're out there courting your Max, Katie, I promise you, you can do better, do differently. How about the many burner phones that are happening on this show? But I would say most importantly, the one that was Nevaeh's is now in Natalie's possession. Yeah, I would think it would have a lot of texts and. Or messages from Max on it.

[Jorda Robinson]

Cause this has to be just what's transpired between them in prison, right?

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah. Oh yeah. It would only be. I guess it would only be from this visit. You're right. Not the earlier messages. Which they might already have access to anyway.

[Jorda Robinson]

Right. Because she couldn't have brought that cell phone in with her.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah. We should also note on the flash drive that maybe water soaked, supposedly Crystal has proof of Max doing crimes.

[Jorda Robinson]

Luring Amy into killing herself.

[Rob Mahoney]

Could be. I don't know exactly. But she said she has photo. Oh no, she has voice memos that were in Amy's possession.

[Jorda Robinson]

But that's what I thought it was like him nightly being like, kill yourself, kill yourself.

[Rob Mahoney]

Does that work?

[Jorda Robinson]

Kill yourself. You do it long enough and you put caviar bar down.

[Rob Mahoney]

You've already taught people to use guns on this pod. It's been a very educational experience. Be careful with your power.

[Jorda Robinson]

Consider it for your children.

[Rob Mahoney]

Or don't, because you will be subject to swamp lock. The arm of the. I was gonna say of the gator, but their arms are quite short.

[Jorda Robinson]

Okay.

[Rob Mahoney]

The snout of the gator is long.

[Jorda Robinson]

Are there any long armed critters in the swamp?

[Rob Mahoney]

I mean, there's long bodies, you know, a lot of snakes out there.

[Jorda Robinson]

Oh, yeah.

[Rob Mahoney]

Clearly the gators and the crocs will get you. Okay, maybe a catfish.

[Jorda Robinson]

The gators and the crocs. I thought those were in two different, like, geographical locations.

[Rob Mahoney]

Well, Florida. We got gators for sure.

[Jorda Robinson]

Yeah.

[Rob Mahoney]

Where do the crocs live?

[Jorda Robinson]

I think like South America.

[Rob Mahoney]

Wow. Maybe they got imported. Maybe they're an invasive species. Like, maybe someone brought a croc. Now they're co mingling with the owl.

[Jorda Robinson]

We've gotten a lot of possum versus opossum emails from people. Yeah.

[Rob Mahoney]

How would you sum them up?

[Jorda Robinson]

I would say this, and this is something I did already know that opossum. A possum and opossum are two different animals.

[Rob Mahoney]

Sure.

[Jorda Robinson]

And I did know that opossum is like, I think Australian or New Zealand animal. Completely different animal. And that opossum, or opossum is the American critter. Do I agree with you that most people call the American critter just simply opossum? I do, but some people call it opossum, and that is what I have learned from.

[Rob Mahoney]

So you're saying they're correct?

[Jorda Robinson]

I'm saying I'm right. Drunken master Anna Bowden. Put her on the case. She seems to be doing a better job than sober Anna.

[Rob Mahoney]

I'm just not sure about that. But hey there, Delilah. Don't you worry about the distance, okay?

[Jorda Robinson]

That's the end of this podcast. We'll be back with the finale. We might have something special cooking up for the finale. I'm unsure, but we will see. Anything else you want to say, Rob, before we go?

[Rob Mahoney]

Simply nothing left. What can we say that the board has not already said for us?

[Jorda Robinson]

We do have post Cape Fear plans. We've got some great plans. A cook in we also. I don't think I can officially announce it yet, but I will just say if you're in la, keep your eyes out. We'll be doing a live show in August in la. We can't quite announce what it is yet, but that's our first live show,

[Rob Mahoney]

our first ever live prestige TV podcast.

[Jorda Robinson]

So if you're in LA and you want to come out, hang out with us and hear us talk about television, perhaps with some other folks, then keep your eyes peeled, because we should be doing that next month. So hopefully we can announce that officially soon. And thank you to Jacob Cornette, Dev Reynaldo, who, you know, zoomed in from across the country, and to Kai Grady and to Justin Sales, who's here in the office today, and to Cape Fear for keeping it absolutely batshit all the time. We'll see you soon. Bye. It.