‘Cape Fear’ Series Premiere Recap: A New Terror

Summary

Prestige TV Podcast: ‘Cape Fear’ Series Premiere Recap

Episode Air Date: June 5, 2026
Hosts: Joanna Robinson & Rob Mahoney

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Overview: Revisiting ‘Cape Fear’ in a New Era

Joanna Robinson and Rob Mahoney dive into the chilling double-episode premiere of AMC’s new Cape Fear series, unpacking how the latest adaptation reinterprets a well-worn tale for modern anxieties. They chart the property’s evolution from John MacDonald's 1957 novel (The Executioners), through its celebrated ‘62 and ‘91 film versions, to a 2026 TV drama crafted by Nick Antosca. The hosts debate why we need to revisit Cape Fear now, how the show injects fresh relevance, and whether the expanded 10-episode form adds or dilutes the story’s menacing power.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

A. Adaptation Lineage & Justification ([01:36] - [05:19])

• History of Adaptations:
  • The 1957 John MacDonald novel, 1962 and 1991 films, The Simpsons’ classic “Cape Feare” episode — all foundational to this new series.
  • “Every era gets its own Cape Fear. And what does it say about the decade that it is sort of exploring?” — Joanna [03:53]
  • Nick Antosca (showrunner) is directly referencing anxieties contemporary to each era.
• On Bringing It Back:
  • The new show is self-aware, using visuals and the iconic musical score to signal its reverence for past versions.
  • “I think it gets the most important Cape Fear thing right, which is, like, the bone-chilling unsettledness of this kind of story.” — Rob [01:43]
  • Notably, this adaptation is credited to the novel AND both film versions, “which I don't think I've ever seen before.” — Rob

B. Moral Complexities and Modernization ([05:50] - [13:13])

• Blurring Moral Lines:
  • Earlier versions presented clear moral lines (Atticus Finch-esque protagonist vs. evil incarnate villain).
  • Scorsese’s ‘91 film started complicating the structure — the lawyer may have buried exonerating evidence, De Niro’s Cady exploits the legal system.
  • The 2026 show complicates things further: Max Cady (Javier Bardem) is exonerated, not just released; his original crime is in question.
  • “Maybe he has a point as far as being a little bit mad that the prosecutor and his defense attorney ended up married.” — Rob [06:21]
• Legal/Procedural Structure:
  • Now, both Anna and Tom Bowden (Amy Adams & Patrick Wilson) are lawyers—wife was Cady’s defense attorney; husband was prosecutor. Their union is a source of ethical murk and tension.
  • “It's messed up. It's bad. It is fucked up. The optics are bad.” — Rob [11:38]

C. Character and Performance Notes ([13:27] - [16:44])

• Javier Bardem’s Max Cady:
  • Bardem’s version is more "verbal" and charismatic than Mitchum’s or De Niro’s, “even smoother in terms of, like, who he is seducing and who he is fooling.” — Joanna [13:27]
  • His performance leverages modern empathy for the wrongfully accused, complicated further by his ability to blend and charm.
  • “He knows how to wear a linen suit, that’s for sure.” — Rob [14:17]
• Intersection of Social Justice:
  • Cady is being reframed as a possible social-justice cause célèbre post-exoneration, providing him plausible and protective access to the Bowden family and their world.

D. Technology, Surveillance & Modern Fear ([16:44] - [22:07])

• Contemporary Anxieties:
  • The show foregrounds modern vulnerabilities (catfishing, AI, surveillance, hacking) alongside Cady’s manipulation.
  • “It feels like Javier Bardem’s Max Cady went to prison to study tech.” Joanna [18:45]
  • The show asks, “Is a man you sent to prison catfishing your teenage son?”
  • Discussion of whether Cady’s tech skills are believable given his incarceration.
• Supernatural or Psychological Elements:
  • Possible “voodoo/witchcraft” angle — strange altars, hallucinations, toe-eating incident, and whether Cady is hypnotic, a manipulator, or something more.

E. Family & Character Mysteries (Character-by-Character Breakdown) ([28:42] - [47:26])

1. Max Cady (Javier Bardem)

• Blue contacts (“very unsettling” - Rob [28:50])
• Dog trainer father with potentially abusive influence
• Tech expertise, brain damage (“glitches”), possible connection to supernatural practices
• “Clearly he is established as someone who can get people to do all kinds of things.” — Rob [29:52]

2. Anna Bowden (Amy Adams)

• Former defense attorney for Cady; got sober after trial
• Strained relationship with her own father
• Hypothesis (Joanna): Had an affair with Cady during trial, possible that daughter Natalie is his (“That would be a hellscape of a show.” — Rob [32:59])

3. Tom Bowden (Patrick Wilson)

• Both lawyers; possible extramarital affair (possibly with daughter’s friend?)
• Microdosing, possibly for anxiety
• History of mental illness in family; ambiguous flashbacks

4. Zach Bowden (Joe Anders)

• Catfished by “Angel X" (presumably Cady)
• Leaked nudes, strained relationships, possible drug use, hallucinations
• Rooted in the show’s tech-anxiety themes

5. Natalie Bowden (Lily Coleus)

• Possibly queer, has affinity for women’s soccer star Megan Rapinoe
• Hypothesized to be Cady’s biological daughter
• More grounded and responsible than brother Zach

6. Supporting Characters & Mysteries

• CCH Pounder as Noah Toussaint
• Jamie Hector as Ray Rollins (private investigator)
• Anna Baryshnikov (reporter Tabitha, daughter of Mikhail Baryshnikov)
• Ted Levine as Anna’s father, delivering loaded lines about “country club liberals”
• Green-hooded mask lady: identity unknown, presumed to stem from one of the show's central mysteries

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• “All three movies and the TV show are using the exact same score … it slaps.” — Joanna [04:26]
• "He blends. Right. De Niro's wearing, like, loud shirts ... This is not the smoothie Max Cady that we're getting here." — Joanna [14:19]
• “The choice to kind of cloak Max Cady in the fight for social justice, I think is a really smart decision.” — Rob [14:59]
• “In this version, Max Cady is not released because he served a sentence. He's released because he is exonerated.” — Joanna [09:19]
• “Is Max Katie, in addition to like, hacking your security system, also casting spells? Is that what's happening?” — Joanna [23:40]
• “Nick Antosca has decided to stretch this story from a cinema Trash Trace into a ten episode television series. And this is the thing I'm most worried about … [Javier Bardem said he’s worried about] people getting bored.” — Joanna [13:27]
• “I think her daughter is [Max Cady’s] biological daughter. That's what I think.” — Joanna [32:44]
• “Yeah, we just put Euphoria to bed and here we are again with just, like, severed toes and Nazis.” — Joanna [24:28]
• “Everything is a symbol. Everything is literal. Everything's a storm. Everything's a wilted flower emoji.” — Joanna [53:28]

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Timestamps for Major Segments

• 01:16 — Joanna and Rob intro and set up adaptation history
• 03:53 — “Every era gets its own Cape Fear” and exploration of shifting themes
• 05:50 — Update of Max Cady’s crime; shifting moral terrain
• 09:00 — ‘91 film’s complications and the TV series’ new spin
• 13:27 — Javier Bardem’s Max Cady; series pacing concerns
• 14:59 — Cady and the social justice angle
• 18:45 — How tech anxiety reshapes the narrative
• 22:07 — Witchcraft, folklore, and the show’s atmosphere
• 28:42 — Detailed character-by-character questions and theories
• 41:09 — Zach and the various “forms of stalking” this version explores
• 44:03 — Deciphering the emoji-laden digital flirtations & tech motifs
• 47:59 — Masked lady and wife-murder mystery
• 51:38 — Animal peril: "Does the cat die?" thread
• 54:59 — Discussion: flashbacks, narrative style, overstuffing
• 59:06 — Should you watch it? Cast appreciation
• 62:27 — Provisional legal status of Max Cady and possible retrial
• 63:30 — More legal confusion & plea deal inconsistencies

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Memorable Discussions & Theory Highlights

• Joanna’s wild but plausible theory (see [32:44]): Anna’s daughter is actually Cady’s child, possibly the biggest subversion of the "creeps on the teen daughter" trope.
• The voodoo/witchcraft motif: Is Cady’s manipulation simply criminal psychology, or nearly supernatural?
• Tech-driven menace: catfishing, AI, hacked security—how the show updates psychological terror.
• Use of humor to cope (“Thinkofababycarrotmail.com” for feedback [28:12], dipped in handsome to describe Patrick Wilson).
• Emoji analysis ([44:03]): the show’s dive into how modern kids flirt, lie, and stalk.

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"Checkov's Everything" — Major Story Hooks

• Checkov’s tree: Forecasted to fall on the glitchy house; symbolic of storm metaphors running through the show. [45:03]
• Nail gun: Unexpected weapons always return. [56:11]
• Animals in peril: Cat, possums, skunks—no pet is safe. [51:53]

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Final Thoughts & Recommendations

• The hosts are intrigued and entertained by the performances, especially Bardem and Adams, and are cautiously optimistic about the show’s pacing and complexity.
• Humor, skepticism, and horror intertwine throughout the conversation.
• Cape Fear 2026 is explicitly for fans of “well-acted, morally ambiguous, tech-anxious, family-in-peril” TV, but may be tough on viewers sensitive to stalking, psychological peril, or animal harm.
• “I'd watch Javier Bardem do almost anything … He's fantastic.” — Joanna [59:06]
• “Are we all going to regret that around episode seven, possibly? … stringing out the story is going to be a challenge.” — Joanna [61:13]

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Contact & Feedback

• Listeners are invited to email at thinkofababycarrotmail.com with feedback and theories.
• The hosts will continue recapping Cape Fear if audience demand remains strong.

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Overall tone: Wry, analytic, playful, and deeply invested in TV craft and genre history — perfect for fans seeking both in-depth analysis and lively speculation.

Transcript

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[Joanna Robinson]

Hello. Welcome back to the Prestige TV podcast. I'm Joanna Robinson.

[Rob Mahoney]

I am Rob Mahoney.

[Joanna Robinson]

We're here to talk about kids. Cape Fear Spooky. The first two episodes of Cape Fear did a double premiere drop. So if you missed that and only watch the first episode, we're gonna be talking about both episodes. So you might wanna go watch them and then come back and listen to us talk about it.

[Rob Mahoney]

I would advise it.

[Joanna Robinson]

Ramahoney. Big picture. Did you like these episodes of television?

[Rob Mahoney]

You know, I did. I am intrigued.

[Joanna Robinson]

Okay, tell me.

[Rob Mahoney]

I think, look on a line by line level, sometimes it can be a little blunt. Sometimes the dialogue can be a little on the nose. I think it gets the most important Cape Fear thing right, which is like the bone chilling unsettledness of this kind of story. I'm unsettled. I'm sufficiently unsettled.

[Joanna Robinson]

Okay, so the source material that we're working with here is there's a 1957 novel by John MacDonald called the Executioners which I have procured but not cracked yet. I did rewatch the 1962 film with Gregory Peck and Robert Mitchum. And I did rewatch the 1999, 1991 film from Martin Scorsese with Robert De Niro. Have you heard of him? Nick Nolte, Jessica Lange, Juliet Lewis. Both Juliet Lewis and Robert De Niro got Oscar nominations for that.

[Rob Mahoney]

Both phenomenal in it.

[Joanna Robinson]

Extraordinary. And then of course, the 1993 episodes of the Simpsons. Kate Fear.

[Rob Mahoney]

Well, we should. We should. The first three are all credited as being the basis for this show. I don't think I've ever seen that before. The base, like based on this novel and these two movies.

[Joanna Robinson]

But if Nick. Nick Antosca, who's the showrunner of this version, I think if he's being honest with himself, he should credit the Simpsons as well, because that is a phenomenal episode of the Simpsons.

[Rob Mahoney]

Let's add it to the list.

[Joanna Robinson]

I think it was. My first exposure to Cape Fear was that episode of the Simpsons with Sideshow Bob, Amazing stalking. Have you seen it?

[Rob Mahoney]

I have seen it. It's been a minute. I'm going to be honest with you.

[Joanna Robinson]

I think it's maybe my favorite episode of the Simpsons. He sings Gilbert and Sullivan. He steps on a bunch of rakes.

[Rob Mahoney]

Wow, it really is hitting all of your touchdowns.

[Joanna Robinson]

All right, so this is what. So the question is why? Why do we need a 10 episode show based on a book and two movies and perhaps an episode of the Simpsons that were already quite well regarded and phenomenal? Do we need to tell this story again? And I think it is interesting to track this 1950s novel, this 1960s movie, this 1990s movie, and the way in which the story is slightly mutated over those many adaptations to reflect. And this is what Nick Antosca has said in several interviews, sort of to reflect the anxieties of the era. Every era gets its own Cape Fear.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

And what does it say about the decade that it is sort of exploring and even know Martin Scorsese talked about that as well, where he was just sort of like, I am remaking a movie that I regard very highly. It's sort of a kind of a B movie. And his version, his Cape Fear is not really like any other Martin Scorsese movie. It's what, years ago, my. My pal David Ehrlich in. In regards to the film Gone Girl. I don't know if he coined this phrase, but the phrase he used was trasher piece. Like something that is like, yeah, great, but also schlocky at the same time. And like Martin Scorsese's Cape Fear is a absolute stone cold trasher piece. And all three movies are. The two movies in the TV show are using the exact same score so that they're like, bum, bum, bum. Like that is the kingdom score still hits. It slaps. And then this show, right away when we get the sort of photo negative imagery that opens episode one of this show, you know, or the. The pool is colored red instead of Blue. That's a direct visual connection to the Scorsese film.

[Rob Mahoney]

Also, we get the, the shot in episode two of Max's eyes through the slats of the closet. That's like basically ripped from the poster.

[Joanna Robinson]

Absolutely. So do you want to talk about sort of what our plan is? To talk about this really well known story, Cape Fear, in a way that people are watching the show, maybe haven't seen any of these movies or read the book or watched that Simpsons episode. Like, you know, what is a spoiler inside of this context?

[Rob Mahoney]

I genuinely don't know. That wasn't a conversation I was expecting to have about Cape Fear based on the idea of it. If you're not familiar with the movies, I would not describe them as promised. Particularly twisty, like it's, it's a somewhat straightforward story.

[Joanna Robinson]

Right.

[Rob Mahoney]

But within this adaptation, I think we're introducing all sorts of uncertainty as far as what actually happened with the inciting incident, which I believe in both movies and the novel, it's a rape that Max Katie has committed. And specifically, I think in some adaptations of an underage girl that's been now changed to his wife. His pregnant wife has been murdered, presumably by him, but then also exonerated and released from prison. So there's some uncertainty around what happened. There's some uncertainty around the actual trial that led him and the plea bargain that apparently sent him to prison in the first place. And I gotta say, maybe he has a point as far as being a little bit mad that the prosecutor and his defense attorney ended up married. I'm, I'm not saying he's a great guy, but I, I too would be a little fussed.

[Joanna Robinson]

Rob Hoane. Max Katie had some good points. Not saying that Max Katie is one of the most iconic like on screen psychopaths. Yes. You know, played incredibly by both Robert Mitchum and Robert De Niro. And to get Javier Bardem, who has already played one of our most iconic on screen psychopaths, several, I would say. What's your list?

[Rob Mahoney]

I mean, I think Skyfall might be included too.

[Joanna Robinson]

You're okay.

[Rob Mahoney]

Not quite as iconic as Anton Sugar. No. But I do think this version, in its deviations from the De Niro one especially, which is like a functionally illiterate man who is like malicious and evil. And this version is more verbal in the way that Javier Bardem characters tend to be.

[Joanna Robinson]

That's interesting because like Anton Chigurh is pretty nonverbal.

[Rob Mahoney]

That's true, I guess. I guess he goes both ways.

[Joanna Robinson]

So here's what's Interesting. We're not going to talk about sort of like the ending of Cape Fear, I guess, is what we're going to stay away from.

[Rob Mahoney]

And for the record, we don't know the ending of this series.

[Joanna Robinson]

Right. And we talked about this a lot with Protein Presumed Innocent, where Rob didn't know the story. Presumed Innocent. I did. We were so careful about that. And then that version of that story was completely different at the end. So how far off the map are they going to go with this version? There's already so many differences. But I do want to talk about this core difference across all the adaptations, which is as we go forward in time and as our world gets more complex, perhaps this blurring of the lines, morality lines, you know, is. Increases. So in the. In the 1962 film, we have cast Gregory Peck as Sam Bowden, the. The attorney Atticus Finch himself. Like, just the most upstanding citizen possible. And it is Sam Bowden, family man and his lovely family. And what happens when this elemental evil, as represented by Robert Mitchum, comes to town and destroys your family? I just recorded an episode of the Rewatchables that's part of this From Hell month that Bill is doing. And this is sort of his overreaching concept of From Hell, which is like, this element has entered your home and is here to destroy it and is

[Rob Mahoney]

distinctly uncomplicated in some ways, like a Night of the Hunter style. This is evil incarnate.

[Joanna Robinson]

This is why you get Robert Mitchum to do this. Right? Okay, so in 91, Scorsese's like, let's complicate it a little bit. Okay? So in his version, Nick Nolte's character of Sam Bowden has buried some evidence in the case. He believes Max Kitty did the crime. We believe Max Kitty did the crime. We believe that ultimately justice was served in sending Max Katie to prison.

[Rob Mahoney]

Right.

[Joanna Robinson]

But is De Niro's version of that character right when he's like, hey, did you bury some evidence in my case attorney?

[Rob Mahoney]

So saying Max Katie has some points

[Joanna Robinson]

now, I'm saying Scorsese was like, wouldn't it be interesting if Max Katie studied the law? And he is actually the one who's like, here's the letter of the law. And Nick Nolte's attorney character is like, I'm bending the law slightly to serve this greater idea of justice. Also, Nick Nolte's character in that version of the film is a philanderer. You know what I mean? Like, has these various flaws. He is not a Gregory Peck type. He is like a. You know, he's a husband and a dad, but they had to leave town because he fucked too many women. And, like, you know, he's got a relationship of a sort with Ileanna Douglas and all this sort of stuff going on. So that's the slightly different thing. Now we get to this version of Cape Fear where, as you pointed out, Max Katie is not released because he served a sentence. He's released because he is exonerated. There is some question. I don't have any questions about this, but the TV show is asking some questions about whether or not Max Katie actually did the crime.

[Rob Mahoney]

Right.

[Joanna Robinson]

I think he did. I think there's evidence inside of these episodes that he did.

[Rob Mahoney]

I suspect he did. But I think the thing that plays, whether you're Talking about the 50s or the 60s or the 90s or today even, you know, you're updating, you're modernizing, you're changing the framing. But that, like, core idea of the plausible deniability of, like, I'm just. I'm just around. I just happen to be in the neighborhood. I'm just like, I'm an innocent bystander. I have this airtight alibi, and it turns the core attorney characters into this, like, position of what if I can see the thing that no one else can see?

[Joanna Robinson]

Right.

[Rob Mahoney]

And no one believes me?

[Joanna Robinson]

And the law. There's a limit to what the law can do for me.

[Rob Mahoney]

Absolutely.

[Joanna Robinson]

And so what. What do I do when the. When the structures that I believe in fail me? And that's what's so fun about De Niro's Max Katie especially, is because he has studied the law, he's like, oh, I'm not on your property. Yeah. Oh, I'm. You know, like, he's using the law to get away with all the shit that he gets away with. Right. Okay, so in this version, we have no Sam Bowden. It's Anna and Tom Bowden, two attorneys. And as you alluded to, she was his defense attorney. He was the prosecutor.

[Rob Mahoney]

It's messed up. It's bad. It is fucked up. The optics are bad.

[Joanna Robinson]

Very bad. So we've got. You know, I was talking to you a bit about this last week where I was wondering if. Because I could tell that they had made Amy Adams into sort of like, she was the defense attorney, which is the role that these other Sam Bowdens have played. But I was like, so is Patrick Wilson just gonna be the, like, the Jessica Lange interior designer husband or whatever it is that she's an artist. I don't know whatever it is she does. No, they're both attorneys, so they sort of split the role across these two characters. Patrick Wilson and Amy Adams are here, but they have this, like, you know, they look around. Do you ever think, we don't deserve this? They have this like, picture perfect home. They've got a fucked up kid or two. They've got a lot of. They've got so many secrets.

[Rob Mahoney]

I mean, it's almost like the glitching picture frame is a metaphor for the mirage of their suburban existence.

[Joanna Robinson]

What is a metaphor? What is the storm a metaphor?

[Rob Mahoney]

Clunky writing, unfortunately. That one was tough.

[Joanna Robinson]

Okay, so we've got lawyers who have, you know, at least had, like each other during the case, probably got married afterwards. What was the deal? They. They say this very ominous thing in. In episode two that their daughter overhears, which is like, we had to do the thing that we did. What was it? We don't know yet because there's so many mysterious questions. And we're gonna run down all of the open questions because they have stretched, you know, Nick Antosca has decided to stretch this story from a two hour cinema masterpiece Trash Trace into a ten episode television series. And this is the thing I'm most worried about. And honestly, Javier Bardem sounded a little bit worried about it because in an interview with Entertainment Weekly, they're like, what's the thing you were sort of like most anxious about? He was like, people getting bored.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

This is 10 episodes with Max Cady. It's not a two hour jaunt around, you know, the south with Max. Katie, you are spending 10 hours with him. So how can I add shading and nuance and whatever to him? Is he still this sort of elemental evil character that Robert Mitchum and Robert De Niro have played? Yes, but like, does he have, you know, the De Niro version has a charm to him, certainly, but this version is even smoother and even in terms of like, who he is seducing and who he is fooling, it's a much wider swath. I really loved the scene in episode two when he's touring the house and he's talking to the real estate, the realtor, whoever he's talking to.

[Rob Mahoney]

Well, he knows how to wear a linen suit, that's for sure.

[Joanna Robinson]

Absolutely. But he's like. And that's the thing is like, unlike, well, I would say Mitchum's Max Katie blends, but unlike De Niro, he blends. Right. De Niro's wearing like loud shirts and has like a bikini girl Lighter and is as, like, crass as crass can be. And this is not the smoothie Max Katie that we're getting here, but the way that he, like, goes off on his rant about whatever, and he's like, oh, but that's not the world you live in, my dear. Like, I will get you the information you want. And it just sort of, like, he's unsettling. But, like, you understand why these various characters, perhaps most frustratingly, CCH Pounder's character, are taken in and sort of enamored by him.

[Rob Mahoney]

I think this is the smartest of the adaptive choices we've seen so far. Some of it we're going to see how it pays off, like, where it goes, what the secrets are within. You know, the two lawyers and their marriage and all that. The choice to kind of cloak Max Cady in the fight for social justice, I think is a really smart decision. And just the idea of, like, what does it mean when someone is released from prison in 2026 because they were seemingly wrongfully imprisoned? And, like, how do. How do people treat him? What does he get pulled into? And I think, structurally, if you're trying to make a TV show, you need ways that he and Anna can be in the same spaces.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yes.

[Rob Mahoney]

Logically, without her wanting to call the police at all times. And so him becoming, like, whether by accident or by crook, like, almost the face of her organization. I think it's just, like, a really smart way to integrate this really menacing element into her world.

[Joanna Robinson]

And I think, to start with, in episode one at the gala, when she is talking about the flaws inside the justice system, so she's already starting from a place of the justice. Like, my whole life's work is to talk about how flawed the justice system is. And so. But where does the rubber meet the road in terms of those values when it comes to someone like Max Cady? And she's like, no, but I know that he is, you know, evil. I know this to be true. And that's different from your Gregory Pecks, who's like, I believe in the law. I believe in law and order. And when, like, various people are like, we could do this shady thing, he's like, no, we have to go buy the letter of the law. In. In episode one, we meet this sort of investigator character who works for Anna's organization is played by the wires, Jamie, Hector, Ray Rollins. And she introduces him. She's like, here's Ray Rollins. He does what the cops can or won't do. You know, we are. We already work outside they got to

[Rob Mahoney]

go around the boundaries for sure.

[Joanna Robinson]

I think all of that is interesting. I do.

[Rob Mahoney]

And even, like, when the two interns meet, at that point, they're introducing. I believe his name's Byron, the other guy who they've recently helped get released from prison, who ends up mysteriously killed or dead.

[Joanna Robinson]

Mysteriously.

[Rob Mahoney]

Well, I mean, there were gunshots. There was fighting. I think we have an inkling as to what goes on, but again, plausible deniability all around.

[Joanna Robinson]

He has an airtight elevator, but the

[Rob Mahoney]

two interns who come to meet him are like. Like. Oh. Talking about his lived experience. And like, the broken system. It's like all of this language that we use today to try to understand those broken systems is like being weaponized against, presumably Anna and Tom as they try to protect their family and understand what kind of risk they're really in.

[Joanna Robinson]

I think another needle here is when Ted Levine, as. As Anna's father, shows up. And Brandon Devereaux. Oh, by the way, we're in Savannah.

[Rob Mahoney]

Gotta be Devereaux involved.

[Joanna Robinson]

And Tucson. That's CCH Pounders, is Noah Toussaint. So you've got Tucson's and Devereaux. Like, we're living. We're thriving.

[Rob Mahoney]

Where was Blanche Devereaux from? Was she. Was she from Savannah?

[Joanna Robinson]

She's from Georgia. Yeah.

[Rob Mahoney]

It's gotta be. We have to do some deeper Golden Girls research, try to tie the narrative. Oh, my God. Is one of these characters Big Daddy?

[Joanna Robinson]

Great question, but I think that. I think having her father show up and call Tom and Anna country club liberals is another sort of like, brick in the building we're. We're creating here. Also, in terms of the anxieties that Nick Antosca is like, okay, here. What are the specific anxieties of the 1960s, of the 1990s and the nows and what he's clearly latched onto, for better or for worse, is this tech anxiety right now? Right. So, you know, are there predators in your schools? Is a 1990s question that Martin Scorsese is asking. Right. Is someone catfishing your teenage. You know, is a man you sent to prison catfishing your teenage son? Is your security system. Has it already been hacked?

[Rob Mahoney]

Yes.

[Joanna Robinson]

You know, all of these tech ways that, you know, the idea that, like, De Niro's Max Katie went to prison and studied the law, and it feels like Javier Bardem's Max Katie went to prison to study tech.

[Rob Mahoney]

I mean, I have many questions. If. If he is in. In fact, responsible for everything we've seen so far. I kind of wonder if the answer might be he is in some things and other ones are coincidental circumstances.

[Joanna Robinson]

I would say some.

[Rob Mahoney]

The one that I like is almost the biggest logical jump for me is like, how did this man who's been in prison for 17 years become a very good, like, World of Warcraft player to the point where he would bond with a teenager? Or do you even have to be. If you're smooth talking, don't you get

[Joanna Robinson]

to play video games in prison?

[Rob Mahoney]

They have wow in there. They have subscription based MMO RPGs. I don't know, man. Maybe they do, maybe they don't. Maybe prison has really changed.

[Joanna Robinson]

I don't. I don't know. I actually don't know the answer to that. But I feel like you have Internet access.

[Rob Mahoney]

Sure.

[Joanna Robinson]

In prison.

[Rob Mahoney]

So maybe that's all it takes.

[Joanna Robinson]

Great questions. Do you want to do a mini Nepo baby? Check in for this?

[Rob Mahoney]

I think we simply have to for every show now.

[Joanna Robinson]

Okay. Joe Anders, who plays Zach Bowden, their son. That is the son of Kate Winslet and.

[Rob Mahoney]

Wow.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah. And Sam Mendes.

[Rob Mahoney]

Okay.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah, so that's one.

[Rob Mahoney]

That's one. Who else is that?

[Joanna Robinson]

And then Anna Baryshnikov, who plays the reporter who is integral in the first two episodes. Tabitha is Mikhail Baryshnikov's daughter.

[Rob Mahoney]

Let's talk about this reporter for a second. If I were reporting a story as I often have. Yeah. And the person I was interviewing wound up with a family of dead skunks in their pool.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Rob Mahoney]

That's the lead. Like, I'm sure it was making the story. There was no like. This was off the record photo. Come on. The dead skunk.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Rob Mahoney]

You got a cameraman. This is a dream assignment all of a sudden.

[Joanna Robinson]

Absolutely.

[Rob Mahoney]

Especially now that all this evidence is coming out like, this man's released from prison. You're just sitting on the dead skunk lead.

[Joanna Robinson]

I do really appreciate that Anna Bowden is so media trained that she's like, so, so careful about what's on the record. What's off the record. She's like, you didn't say it. So let's be clear. This is off the record.

[Rob Mahoney]

Pretty well done by her.

[Joanna Robinson]

This was not in the brief. We said we were not talking about this. We're not. And she was like. She's like, I'm sure you didn't see it.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah, I'm sure you did.

[Joanna Robinson]

Bitch.

[Rob Mahoney]

Again, plausible deniability all around.

[Joanna Robinson]

So, yeah. How does that tech anxiety play for you?

[Rob Mahoney]

It's a little of both. I will say, of all the characters we've had so far. Zach feels the shakiest as far as like his place within the story. I think the part of it that is the online gaming catfishing, that part I'm along the ride for the idea that he has leaked these like presumably nudes of this girl to his group chat. That feels like something a show like this could explore and get into it's treatment we can dissect. It's the like TikTok AI slop version of Max Katie's unborn son that he is now, I believe, hallucinating, walking about.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Rob Mahoney]

When it was just the AI slop video, I was like, okay. It's just like ghoulish but honestly believable. Now that he's become a sentient walking hallucination. I don't know.

[Joanna Robinson]

So that leads into something else I want to talk about for sure. But I will say I watched episode one, then I watched episode two much later and I had forgotten about the AI Slap part. So when he hallucinated Max Cady's son, I was like, are we doing real ghosts here? Is that what's happening? And then I rewatched episode one. I was like, oh no. He saw the AI Slap version of him. But Adam Katie, what Adam Katie would look like had he lived.

[Rob Mahoney]

Right.

[Joanna Robinson]

I want to talk about. So we've got this, this tech paranoia, right. What if you're, you know, and Max Katie, the tattoos are interesting to me because De Niro, very consciously made, wanted, you know, and he's talked about this, wanted to make sure all the tattoos on his body were, you know, specific biblical references. So the iconography and you know, he's got like passages, long passages on his arms and stuff like that. With, with this version of Max Katie, he's got the, the Grim Reaper, which is same, same as quite well done. Whoever did the ink, but the eyes everywhere.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

And so in terms of this like tech surveillance, like. Or is there another spiritual meaning to that? And that brings me into what I want to say, which is like alongside this, this Max Katie tech genius aspect is like Max Katie, like voodoo practitioner.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

Okay. Because in both the mistress who shoots herself in the head twice while listening to the Cranberries in the opener.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yes.

[Joanna Robinson]

And in the possum infested den where Zack ingested his own toe at one point or was force fed his own toe.

[Rob Mahoney]

I mean, maybe the possum was doing the witchcraft.

[Joanna Robinson]

There's like bowls and seeds and candles, nuts and stuff like that. And it's just like it's meant to invoke some sort of.

[Rob Mahoney]

It could just be an acai bowl.

[Joanna Robinson]

Absolutely not.

[Rob Mahoney]

You don't think so?

[Joanna Robinson]

It's meant to invoke, like, witchcraft.

[Rob Mahoney]

Add some yogurt and you got something going.

[Joanna Robinson]

So, like, is Max, Katie, in addition to, like, hacking your security system, also casting spells. Is that what's happening?

[Rob Mahoney]

I don't know. I would say we get two very distinct impressions of him over the course these episodes. One, particularly with the cold open of episode two, the physical threat of who he is is made very clear. Right. This is not a man who you're just gonna see looming in the shadows. Like, he fucks up these Nazis who try to jump him and we love it. Look, we do love to see that part. And honestly, I do think escalating both what we see Max being capable of in terms of his physical strength and like, ability to hurt someone, but also what the show is willing to show us.

[Joanna Robinson]

Right?

[Rob Mahoney]

Like a Nazi gets his head impaled on a bench press bar. Another one gets a kettlebell to the knee. And. And then we see Zach, like, with the.

[Joanna Robinson]

I mean, his toe.

[Rob Mahoney]

We. We just put euphoria to bed and here we are again with just like severed toes and Nazis.

[Joanna Robinson]

Can we not escape, however, Rob, Nick Antaska. Do you look at his credits?

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

So he did the act and Candy. Like the two big things he's done is the act and Candy, both true crime adaptations for Hulu, I believe.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yes.

[Joanna Robinson]

Well received. Whatever. He was a writer on Hannibal.

[Rob Mahoney]

He was.

[Joanna Robinson]

So most notably for season three, People are eating toast. Is this not back in your Hannibal pocket?

[Rob Mahoney]

It's not a prime cut. It's not your. It's not your first choice. I wouldn't think. If you have a doctor.

[Joanna Robinson]

Never.

[Rob Mahoney]

That's what, you know, that's for. Like the sausaging, you know.

[Joanna Robinson]

Think of it as a baby carrot.

[Rob Mahoney]

Okay. I'm glad you brought the baby carrot. We're trying to figure out how we want to cover this show. If it's going to be something we do week to week. We don't really know. Email us, comment wherever you're watching this. Let us know if this is something you want to keep up with. Week to week. Prestige TV, Spotify.com. regardless.

[Joanna Robinson]

Regardless.

[Rob Mahoney]

I would like for us to create an email for this show as we return to it. Think of a baby [e-mail] is right there for us. What are your other options from Baby Bird, the spliff. Gmail.com.

[Joanna Robinson]

okay.

[Rob Mahoney]

Possum witch. Gmail.com or possum based witchcraft gmail.com Backyard cougar fishing for skunks the system of fuck you or dipped in handsome. How do you feel about any of those?

[Joanna Robinson]

Dipped in handsome was such a good phrase.

[Rob Mahoney]

Incredibly descriptive of Patrick Wilson in particular.

[Joanna Robinson]

Very very key I wrote that down both times I watched the episode. I think it's gotta be think of a baby carrot.

[Rob Mahoney]

Let's do a quick double check, okay

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[Rob Mahoney]

Exclusively on AMC and AMC. I am the Vampire Lestat. I'm a rock star now I'm a little killer. I'm a moon. From Anne Rice's immortal universe comes what Vulture calls the most momentous event in fictional rock history.

[Joanna Robinson]

Thousands of fans love you. I want millions.

[Rob Mahoney]

It's my era. AM Rice's the Vampire Lestat debuts Sunday at 9 exclusively on AMC and AMC

[Joanna Robinson]

okay, so through the magic of editing, and perhaps Cameron, who's editing this podcast, can put it down here at the bottom. Thinkofabycarrotmail.com is how you can reach us.

[Rob Mahoney]

I'm very happy about it and also was very upset at that line of dialogue.

[Joanna Robinson]

I love a baby carrot.

[Rob Mahoney]

Do you still?

[Joanna Robinson]

It's the jar for me. Zach. I'm not a fan of. I should say this is. There is a sun character in the book. There has been no sun character in the two movies.

[Rob Mahoney]

There has not.

[Joanna Robinson]

So we're adding back in people. Let's. Let's go through character by character and talk about all the mysteries and questions we have around these characters.

[Rob Mahoney]

There are so many.

[Joanna Robinson]

Let's start with Max Cady himself, Javier Bardem, Blue contacts. Why?

[Rob Mahoney]

They're very unsettling. I honestly think this is part of it. Like, this character needs to have kind of an uncanny thing to him, and if he's going to be a little smoother in terms of his working with people. Our familiarity with Javier Bardem being, like, turned against us, but, like, there's just something off. Looking at him, I honestly think is part of the package.

[Joanna Robinson]

I also wonder if it's meant to match Amy Adams's eyes, which are the way the. The color grading is working on the show. They're, like, ultramarine. They're, like, really popping. And so if. If, you know, I think the promo image is, like, their two faces sort of blurring into each other. So if the point is to be, like, two sides of the same coin, we're not so different, you and I. Like having these matching eyeballs might be part of that, too.

[Rob Mahoney]

Speaking of we afield with the baby carrot of all this. The physical presence of Max Katie is part of it, but you asked about, like, the. Whether he's actually invoking some kind of witchcraft or magic or, like, y. What is making him such a good manipulator? I don't know the cause, but, like, clearly he is established as someone who can get people to do all kinds of things.

[Joanna Robinson]

Well, his father was a dog trainer. Y. And so I'm wondering how much of this is like, the dog train, you know, because we got in the flashback, we see that his father put him in a cage, among other things, and trained him, you know, so through, like, behavioral cues or whatever. Like, in terms of, like, how did he get Zach to eat his own toe or whatever when he wasn't even there? Like, you know, are there. You know, can he call someone, as it seems like he does with his mistress? And say certain things and get you do something because he's trained you. He's.

[Rob Mahoney]

Hypnotic suggestion. Is it. Is it some kind of witchcraft? Is it just like a more conventional kind of humanistic manipulation? I don't know.

[Joanna Robinson]

I don't know. But those bulls are.

[Rob Mahoney]

He's doing stuff. I don't know what it is leading to.

[Joanna Robinson]

When Anna. And we'll get to all of our questions about Anna, but when Anna saw those bowls, at first I was wondering if she would recognize them from like stuff that Max Katie had done before. But she seemed, when she asked her daughter, she's like, do you know what all this is? Why aren't they making a bigger deal out of like the witchcraft that's in there? I don't know.

[Rob Mahoney]

I feel like if somebody. If I found evidence of random hexes in my unfinished room, I'd be a little freaked out also.

[Joanna Robinson]

Finish that room. It feels like it's like exposed to the outdoors apparently very confusing.

[Rob Mahoney]

The possums just living in there. And we're firing contractors left and right.

[Joanna Robinson]

Blue contacts on Javier Bardem.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yep.

[Joanna Robinson]

Dog trainer, father. Some weird around Christianity. And his father as well, clearly. Eyeball tattoos, facility with tech, brain damage, glitches, sees his dead wife and son.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah. And the glitches seem to, I mean, sometimes coincide with like flashes of light or things like that, as all happens for a lot of people with a lot of different conditions. I don't know what the spazzing out is going to ultimately lead to, but it does make it particularly terrifying when you. When you've seen what he can do.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Rob Mahoney]

The idea that he would be out of control for even a second. And this is, to me, what's the most terrifying thing about him? With all of this plausible deniability. Right. Like you have this revelation in episode two where Amy Adams, this character is like connecting the dots between the text from Angel X and like something that Max Katie has said.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Rob Mahoney]

And it's like if all of these things that she believes are true, then he's like so far ahead. He's laying the seeds in like the conversations and the speeches. And it's like he's like, catch up completely. It's like, it's so terrifying to think that you could be that far behind. And yet I feel like Javier Burdem kind of sells that sort of intelligence.

[Joanna Robinson]

Mr. Policeman, I gave you all the clues. Okay.

[Rob Mahoney]

Fingers and toes. It was right there.

[Joanna Robinson]

Anna Bowden got sober at one point.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

After the trial.

[Rob Mahoney]

That was kind of a like a throwaway line, I think.

[Joanna Robinson]

Very important.

[Rob Mahoney]

Almost like ADR in it. Felt like

[Joanna Robinson]

loose cannon. Potentially bipolar father has a bad relationship with him.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yes.

[Joanna Robinson]

And here's a seed I'm going to plant again, I have not watched past episode two. I believe she fucked Max Gady and I think her daughter is his biological daughter. That's what I think.

[Rob Mahoney]

That would be a hellscape of a show.

[Joanna Robinson]

Well, here's my thought. Okay, so one of the creepiest, the creepiest things, I think. Well, it's a long list, but Max Cady in the various versions creeps around the teenage daughter. This is like his thing. This is why De Niro and Juliette Lewis were nominated for Oscars. Right. By the way, 1991. I saw an interview that Scorsese gave in 92 or 93 perhaps where he was talking about the scene between De Niro and Juliette Lewis in the school in the original where he comes and he's seducing her and he sticks his finger in her mouth and then he kisses her. First of all. So Julia Lewis was 17 playing younger. She's wearing a retainer. It's very upsetting. She was 17. De Niro improvised the finger in the mouth thing and he told Scorsese he was going to do it. Scorsese was like, great, let's not tell the girl that you're going to do it.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yep.

[Joanna Robinson]

So that like fear and uncertainty you see on Juliette Lewis, that's her being like, why is Robert de Niro a 50 something year old man? 40 something year old man sticking his finger in my mouth. Last but not least,

[Rob Mahoney]

Juliette Lewis has lived a life, man.

[Joanna Robinson]

She's. That was the first year the MTV Movie Awards did and they nominated that kiss from Cape Fear.

[Rob Mahoney]

Are you kidding me?

[Joanna Robinson]

I'm not kidding you.

[Rob Mahoney]

First of all, what teens out there were like, let's go watch Cape Fear. And even if they did everyone watch Cape Fear, I guess that's fair. It's just, oh my God. That is a horrendous decision.

[Joanna Robinson]

So I think they're hard swerving away from Max. Katy creeps around the teenage daughter in this version.

[Rob Mahoney]

And you think the hardest swerve is what if he is her dad?

[Joanna Robinson]

I think he's her dad. They're not going to do that. And here's all the swerves they're doing.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

She seems like she might be gay.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yes.

[Joanna Robinson]

So I don't think she's going to be seduced by Joe.

[Rob Mahoney]

I got news for you. She. She is gay.

[Joanna Robinson]

She's gay, but she might could be bi, but she could Be bi. But, like, she wants to kiss her friend. She likes Megan Rapinoe.

[Rob Mahoney]

Shoes Fan of Megan Rapinoe is the new friend of Dorothy, as far as I'm concerned.

[Joanna Robinson]

So we'll make her queer. Her his biological daughter.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yep.

[Joanna Robinson]

And the person he's seducing and catfishing is the son, actually.

[Rob Mahoney]

Oh, boy. I mean, it does seem like that is what has been set up.

[Joanna Robinson]

So, like, in terms of what secret could Anna be keeping from Tom? Because there are moments where she has opportunities to tell Tom things and she's not telling him.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yes.

[Joanna Robinson]

The fact that she fudged Max Katie and got pregnant by him. And he's like, I never told anyone what happened. And I'm. Why would I start now? And all that sort of stuff like that.

[Rob Mahoney]

Like, I think there's a watch on this show where you gloss past that as like, something about hiding the evidence or some way she messed up the case or like, did file a thing on time or whatever. But now that you're laying it out, I think you're absolutely right that there's. There is clearly a secret between them that is distinct from whatever conspiracy to commit thing she has going on with Tom.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Rob Mahoney]

And the way that those secrets intersect and what kids may be involved as a result. I mean, my skin is crawling just thinking about it.

[Joanna Robinson]

Because I like this idea. I mean, I hate this idea, but I like this idea of. Of. Of Natalie being seduced. Not sexually, but sort of like this bleeding heart, you know, when. When she overhears her parents say, like, we had to do it.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

You know, and she asks her mom something about that. Like. Right. You. He had to plead. Right. So this idea that she's just sort of like, believes Max Katie wasn't guilty.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yes.

[Joanna Robinson]

And then maybe finds out he's her real dad and all of these sort of things. Like, you know, because there is an actor, you know, she's talking to her real dad, Paul on the phone who seems deeply checked out of everything. And there is an actor playing him, but he's not like an actor who is, like, known for anything. So I don't think that her biological dad, Paul is going to play a huge role in this show. So that's where. That's where my mind went.

[Rob Mahoney]

Straight into the gutter, it turns out.

[Joanna Robinson]

I guess so. Okay, let's talk about Tom Bowden. Captain America himself.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

Patrick Wilson. I love Patrick Wilson. I'm so glad he's here.

[Rob Mahoney]

A joy every time.

[Joanna Robinson]

And do you think it was his idea to be like, should they see my Arms, do you think?

[Rob Mahoney]

Should I put my sleeves up a little bit?

[Joanna Robinson]

Sleeveless. What do you think for breakfast, do you think? Do you think Tom Bowden would do that? As one does mental health issues in his family. He was very squirrely when the doctor was asking. He wasn't history of mental health issues in his family. Flashback to something in his teen years. It seems like his flash when he's with Zach in the hospital. There's a flash of something and it looks like a teenage boy, like walking into a room.

[Rob Mahoney]

It does. And maybe this is just me being masters of the universe pill having just seen it, but it sure looks like a He man poster on the wall, which would suggest like frame wise it would be him and not somebody else.

[Joanna Robinson]

I was trying to. So that not the one on the door, but like inside the room. I was trying to timestamp the one on the door and I couldn't really.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah, that's what it looked like to me. But look, it could be another half naked man in a loin cloth type

[Joanna Robinson]

get up, you know, Beastmaster, let's hope. Okay. Extramarital affair. Perhaps this is a, you know, a Cape Fear classic or a bait and switch. That's a very ambiguous. That's like sort of what we're meant to think. There's a woman on the phone and she's like, I don't want to be weird, but you want to hear about

[Rob Mahoney]

this, we got to talk about it, we need to meet, etc. Etc.

[Joanna Robinson]

Follow question. If he is having an ex marital affair, is there any possibility that it is Cali, his daughter's friend in a very American beauty kind of way?

[Rob Mahoney]

I hope not.

[Joanna Robinson]

Cali, who's like, your dad's hot.

[Rob Mahoney]

She's interested.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Rob Mahoney]

And look, I think a lot of people would be interested. I hope for. I hope for Tom's sake, Patrick Wilson that's not what's happening. You know, the man is dripped and handsome.

[Joanna Robinson]

Okay. Microdosing mushrooms.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah. What's going on exactly?

[Joanna Robinson]

I think for anxiety, he's microdosing mushrooms.

[Rob Mahoney]

So we think ghb. What do we think?

[Joanna Robinson]

I don't know. I don't microdose mushrooms, but what else do you microdose them with a dropper like that?

[Rob Mahoney]

Like GHB is the only thing I could think of. Like something sedative.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Rob Mahoney]

It's like a take the edge off kind of drug. Clearly.

[Joanna Robinson]

So. And he's doing in a way, slightly surreptitiously, so whatever. He's micro dosing to take the edge off a Could be a secret that he's keeping or baby, something that could be laced at any point. We've seen him put that dropper on his tongue twice. And Max, Katie could put anything in that bottle. And what could happen to Patrick Wilson?

[Rob Mahoney]

Just the vulnerabilities we welcome into our lives. It's crazy.

[Joanna Robinson]

Okay, so that's my Tom Bowden rundown. Zach Bowden. The Sophia thing.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

No friends.

[Rob Mahoney]

It seems like he had the few that maybe stuck with him after the Sophia thing, he seems to have abandoned for the sake of Angel X. Angel X.

[Joanna Robinson]

Who among us. All right. Drugs.

[Rob Mahoney]

She is. What was. What was. Dirty hot.

[Joanna Robinson]

Dirty hot.

[Rob Mahoney]

She is dirty hot.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah. Drugs,

[Rob Mahoney]

willingly or not. Like smoking weed, we're told. But also, this seems deeper than that.

[Joanna Robinson]

In love, lust with Angel X. Yeah. Has a secret cell phone.

[Rob Mahoney]

The whole burner situation.

[Joanna Robinson]

Listen, I'm rooting for you, Anna Bowden, but the fact, like. And first of all, I loved the whole what's this picture? And used his face to unlock the phone. Great move.

[Rob Mahoney]

It's a good move.

[Joanna Robinson]

Great move. But also, if your son's going through all this stuff, I think you need a backdoor into his phone, no matter

[Rob Mahoney]

what that feels like.

[Joanna Robinson]

Why are we giving this kid a locked phone? And also, they just, like, leave. Like, the fact that he can, like, wander out into the night and his sister has to go bring him back home. Like, why isn't this kid under more watchful eye at any given moment?

[Rob Mahoney]

Well, I think this is another way in which the story has been modernized, right? Like, if this is a 90s movie, he's under lock and key, right? Like, he is not let out of the house. Or it's at least a bigger ordeal, maybe.

[Joanna Robinson]

But Natalie is sort of, like, vulnerable in the 90s version.

[Rob Mahoney]

But I think. I think the way that they're treating Zach in general, like, one of the things I really do like about these first two episodes is the source of some of the marital tension between Anna and Tom is, like, their parenting styles, right? Like, Tom is like, we need to be present with our son to help him get through everything he's getting through. And Anna's like, but I need to solve all his problems by snooping through his phone. And, like, being a detective, basically, I need to know what I'm dealing with so I can fix whatever is happening with him. And, like, that difference of opinion is starting to wedge them apart. It's also clearly, like, part of what drives that crazy in the first place. And I know a lot of teenagers hate their parents this kid hates his parents.

[Joanna Robinson]

Fuck my parents.

[Rob Mahoney]

The scene that he has with Max Katie in the hospital bathroom is terrifying the way it's shot. Like, yeah, I think they're doing a great job of.

[Joanna Robinson]

And we don't see all of it.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yes. But like, the cinematic claustrophobia of, like, Max Cady's reflections all around him. The idea that this is a man who's very good at manipulating people. Witchcraft or not, it has moments alone.

[Joanna Robinson]

It's not witchcraft. I have to say, at the end

[Rob Mahoney]

of the day, I'm fine if he thinks it's witchcraft, but I. I doubt very much, given this story, that it's actual effect.

[Joanna Robinson]

I hope it's just like a whistle, a dog whistle, you know, clicker, something.

[Rob Mahoney]

Even hypnosis, like, might be. Fit the story better than Witchcraft. But, yeah, I. Zach is in a bad way for a bunch of different reasons. We get some hints as to, like, the fact that he. He has a heart. He's had a hard time dealing with the fallout of his own actions as far as what he did with Sophia. Blames himself, hits himself. Like, clearly there's a lot of shame. Will not leave this poor girl alone. Like, wants to. And I think this is another thing. These first two episodes do really well, set up all of the kind of different forms of stalking that are happening. Right. Sometimes it's Natalie walking down the street and a podcaster is hounding her. Sometimes it is Max Katie out in the yard.

[Joanna Robinson]

Don't do that. Podcasters.

[Rob Mahoney]

We would never. Sometimes there's a cougar in the backyard. Sometimes it's Zach, who I think genuinely means well, but wants to go to this girl's house in the middle of the night to apologize. It's like, absolutely not.

[Joanna Robinson]

And she's like, no, thank you.

[Rob Mahoney]

She is not interested.

[Joanna Robinson]

I think, in addition, I love that connective tissue you drew between the stalking. I think also there's this idea of, like, are there mistakes you can fix?

[Rob Mahoney]

Yes.

[Joanna Robinson]

You know, and this is when Natalie's like, there's some things you just can't fix. Right. Last but not least, and this. This might be in the drugs and. Or witchcraft thing. The seeing. Seeing Adam Katie. Seeing the ghost of the AI Slop of the teenage version of Max, Katie's dead son.

[Rob Mahoney]

I really hope this pays off in a way that we will find satisfying, but I kind of doubt it. I'm. I am suspicious of this plot line.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Rob Mahoney]

Can I ask you a question, though, on the. The catfishing front?

[Joanna Robinson]

Please.

[Rob Mahoney]

I need your help. I am not a woman, nor Am I a murderer pretending to be a woman on the Internet yet? I need you. Life is long. I can't say I understand the series of emojis that exist in some of these flirtatious messages. And I would like for you to help me decipher them.

[Joanna Robinson]

This is like adolescence all over again. When there was like, all this code in adolescence, you're gonna ask me as if I like.

[Rob Mahoney]

We're just trying.

[Joanna Robinson]

A woman of an advanced age is going to be able to decipher these emojis.

[Rob Mahoney]

We're tilting at windmills. And sometimes they exist over text. This is the text. This is the text that Zach was sent by Angel X, whoever he or she may be. Not a game, not a trick, just a girl who wants how your voice sounds like and wants it closer. The series of emojis is Wilting Flower, Black Heart Flame. I didn't even know there was a wilting flower emoji. What does that mean?

[Joanna Robinson]

What does wilting flower emoji mean? Heartbreak, emotional pain, or death of romance.

[Rob Mahoney]

Maybe love really is dead.

[Joanna Robinson]

Black heart, Wilting flower. Very like, I'm sad.

[Rob Mahoney]

Sure.

[Joanna Robinson]

You know, Won't you talk to me? I'm so sad. I get that.

[Rob Mahoney]

That part makes sense. Look, I mean, they're just kids in love. Or a kid and an adult man in love I did laugh at.

[Joanna Robinson]

Or a kid, an adult man trying to seduce him just to get back at his mother, who he might have fucked at one point and sent him to jail. Taylor's oldest time tale is old.

[Rob Mahoney]

His time. The text that Zack sent back at one point of, you're not just a girl anymore, you're a storm system.

[Joanna Robinson]

Then let me flood you.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah, exactly. Let me flood you. That's wave. Blackheart wave.

[Joanna Robinson]

We get wave. Blackheart Wave.

[Rob Mahoney]

That's self. Yeah, self explanatory.

[Joanna Robinson]

It was wilted flower that really, you know. Well, think of a baby carrot at gmail dot com.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

If you have some other more advanced analysis. The emoji breakdown in adolescence. Just really.

[Rob Mahoney]

Okay, well, on the storm front, we've got so much store meta storm metaphoring happening in these episodes, I have to think that one of the trees that is being complained about in episode one will fall. Right.

[Joanna Robinson]

I've got a few Chekhovs on the list, but that's definitely one of them.

[Rob Mahoney]

It's gotta be.

[Joanna Robinson]

You know what I mean? Tom Bowden's inability to get chores done around the house. Seems like they're gonna come. I mean, is that. Yeah. Is it just gonna crash into the entire house or Maybe just into the den. That's half outside anyway.

[Rob Mahoney]

I don't know if you want to tag yourself anywhere in these episodes, but that one is me, unfortunately. The like, I mean to do this chore, but it goes undone.

[Joanna Robinson]

Did you call the people? Sure. Yeah. I'll get.

[Rob Mahoney]

I'm definitely going to do that tomorrow. When I don't have five podcasts, I

[Joanna Robinson]

feel like I'm more of the like. In terms of the differing styles between Tom and Anna Bowden.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yes.

[Joanna Robinson]

Storms of Bruin. She's like, let's move this party onto the sun porch. And Tom's like, it'll be fine. I'm Anna. I'm like, why? Why wait to find out?

[Rob Mahoney]

Why risk it when we can move

[Joanna Robinson]

the Everything you've grilled onto the sun?

[Rob Mahoney]

Better safe than soaked.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah. Okay. Natalie voted queer question mark.

[Rob Mahoney]

Seems to be.

[Joanna Robinson]

Do her parents know?

[Rob Mahoney]

It seems like her friend doesn't know.

[Joanna Robinson]

Seems like her granddad knows.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah. At least he has an inkling whether he's her friend.

[Joanna Robinson]

Does know.

[Rob Mahoney]

You think so?

[Joanna Robinson]

It'd be weird if we kissed because I don't think of you that way.

[Rob Mahoney]

I think I believe that part is true.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Rob Mahoney]

But does the friend know that Natalie does think of her friend that way?

[Joanna Robinson]

I mean, Natalie's not very subtle, I think.

[Rob Mahoney]

I mean, in the, like, down bad encyclopedia.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Rob Mahoney]

Can you blow smoke into my mouth? Point blank is like, pretty far. It's pretty far up the list in terms of examples.

[Joanna Robinson]

It's a real flood me sort of moment. All right. Max. Katie's biological daughter. Question mark. Maybe Megan Rapinoe shoes. I don't have much else for her.

[Rob Mahoney]

I actually really like. Lily Coleus is the actor who's playing Natalie. I really like what she's bringing to this part so far. I think there is a, like, there is a warmth, there's a curiosity. There's, like, big older sister energy. And I think the, like, combination of, like, son you don't understand and daughter you take for granted can set us up to do a lot with this family structure.

[Joanna Robinson]

Sure. Anna being like, so great. We never have to worry about you.

[Rob Mahoney]

Exactly.

[Joanna Robinson]

Perfect. It's like, all right, somebody's got to

[Rob Mahoney]

fish the skunks out of the pool, unfortunately. And she is the one who does it.

[Joanna Robinson]

I will say, in terms of, like, check off something. One of the inelegant things in these episodes, her taking a full open container to walk down the street. I was like, that's unhinged behavior. Why is she doing that? And it's simply so that she can throw it at a scummy podcaster.

[Rob Mahoney]

As you should.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah, maybe. She'd always walk around with an open container just in case. A scummy podcaster.

[Rob Mahoney]

Why not?

[Joanna Robinson]

Comes calling. Other mysteries. Green hood, mask lady seen by both Anna and Max.

[Rob Mahoney]

What's going on with her?

[Joanna Robinson]

She could be anyone.

[Rob Mahoney]

I don't think we have any grounds to even guess who she might be yet. Do you. Do you feel any inkling as far as what that character might represent or where they might intersect with these people's lives?

[Joanna Robinson]

I mean, she's a real person. Since both Anna and Max saw her. Right.

[Rob Mahoney]

She was in the hospital bumping into Anna, and then I was like on the street or something where she ran into Max or was kind of like lurking around him.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah, that hair could be a wig.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yes.

[Joanna Robinson]

And then the mask. Mask covers the face, hood covering a lot of things.

[Rob Mahoney]

The green hooded jacket, I think is quite tasteful.

[Joanna Robinson]

It.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah, I like.

[Joanna Robinson]

Nice look.

[Rob Mahoney]

I like. I like the look.

[Joanna Robinson]

His dead wife.

[Rob Mahoney]

You think his. So who. Who was found in the swamp?

[Joanna Robinson]

I don't know.

[Rob Mahoney]

Well, so we do get acknowledgment that the wife's body was, like, on stolen land. Well, maybe. So the wife's body was left in, like, a bog or a swamp. It was like, chewed up by gators, basically. Perhaps beyond recognition. But then how would they even know that it was supposed to be Max, Katie's wife in the first place?

[Joanna Robinson]

I don't know. Dental records, something like that.

[Rob Mahoney]

So they swapped out the teeth.

[Joanna Robinson]

Who's they?

[Rob Mahoney]

I don't know. This must go all the way to the top. Yeah, but I don't know what. The top of what?

[Joanna Robinson]

Here's an idea. What if Max, Katie's wife, pregnant, and maybe Adam, like, actually exists somewhere because, like, maybe she's like, I don't want to raise my kid with this dude.

[Rob Mahoney]

You think she faked her own death

[Joanna Robinson]

and frames him or something? Wow. Yeah.

[Rob Mahoney]

So we potentially have a man who went to prison for killing his wife, who he did not kill.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Rob Mahoney]

And a mistress who's claiming credit for that kill, even though she also did not kill her. That woman escapes, gave birth to an actual child who may or may not be on TikTok posting AI slot videos of himself. They're now infiltrating the psyche of a whole other family, the sister of which may actually be Max Cady's biological daughter.

[Joanna Robinson]

We have 10 episodes to film.

[Rob Mahoney]

Oh, my God.

[Joanna Robinson]

Don't take anything for granted. It's in a 10 episode limited series.

[Rob Mahoney]

I really don't this is ultimately going to be the struggle of the show,

[Joanna Robinson]

I think is who else could she be?

[Rob Mahoney]

I don't know.

[Joanna Robinson]

There's no other like woman around. You know what I mean? Like there's no one else. The mistress I thought about.

[Ad Read / Sponsor Voice]

Couldn't.

[Rob Mahoney]

Couldn't she be the like Tom's potential mistress?

[Joanna Robinson]

Maybe. But why is she masking her face like that?

[Rob Mahoney]

I don't know.

[Joanna Robinson]

She's a mask her face because the two people who have bumped into her would recognize her.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yes.

[Joanna Robinson]

That's why she has to be masked.

[Rob Mahoney]

Well, it makes sense that the person

[Joanna Robinson]

that blonde hair is like a real throw off for like someone with like, you know, dark hair. That is what his wife looks like.

[Rob Mahoney]

I really have no clue. I am terrified now that all of these threads are linking together potentially this way. This is a dizzying amount of potential mystery.

[Joanna Robinson]

It's so much and I really think maybe they should have done six episodes. But we'll see what happens.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah. 100 free events 6,000 kids one mission clinic kids is using sports and evidence based wellness coaching to help kids build confidence, resilience and the tools they need for life's challenges and opportunities. Up through August 2026, they're running 100 free sessions for school and community based organizations near you. Learn [e-mail] 100kk that's clinic with a K. Clinic kids is registered 501c3 nonprofit.

[Joanna Robinson]

One other thing and you know, we can talk about plenty of other things, but one other sort of logistical thing I want to talk about if you go to does the dog die dot com. Cape Fear is, is a real does the dog die dot com? Yeah, this family doesn't have a dog. No, it is a cat. And Max, Katie is a dog lover.

[Rob Mahoney]

He's got a dog.

[Joanna Robinson]

He's got a dog.

[Rob Mahoney]

He's just out here like having a good time adopting dogs. Oh yeah, making bilingual dick jokes.

[Joanna Robinson]

I loved that scene where he's just like screwing this guy over and taking his dog as his own. I thought that was great. And then I was like, oh, he's not gonna kill a dog. But then I rewatched episode one. I was like, oh, there's a cat.

[Rob Mahoney]

There is a cat.

[Joanna Robinson]

Mr. Peanut Butter, I believe is his name.

[Rob Mahoney]

Mr. Peanut Butter Joe is cooked. There's no way that cat, given that

[Joanna Robinson]

this guy wrote on Hannibal perhaps literally.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

Who's to say? So I'm. I'm on Peanut butter. Watch. Honestly, does the cat die.com? i'm worried about it. All right. Anything else that we haven't talked about that that we need to get into.

[Rob Mahoney]

Honestly, there's. There's still somehow a lot of stuff in this show.

[Joanna Robinson]

There is.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah. We don't have certainty on what happened exactly with Byron and his mom, but

[Joanna Robinson]

I feel for sure.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

That Max Katie got him, like, drugged or, you know, on, like, which drugs or something like that. Like, I think it's possible that his mom did kill him and then died.

[Rob Mahoney]

Sure.

[Joanna Robinson]

But, like, in terms of he went out and got drunk and. And took a lot of drugs.

[Rob Mahoney]

You think he. You think Max Katie nudged the situation along?

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah, he's a nudger.

[Rob Mahoney]

And. And that's, I think, one area where all of this gray area that Max Katie is living in, like, really potentially works because we get this information. Like, Byron is, like, kind of skittish around crowds, and so the idea that he wouldn't want to go to this big gala or that it might spark some, like, real angst for him or strain with his relationship with his mom. Plausible. But, yeah, the fact that he is kind of, like, nudging things along, and I think this exists, too, in just his language and the way this character is written right now where it is, it is so much. Oh, I didn't mean that literally about seeing my dead wife and child, but also I did mean that other part literally about the fingers and toes. Yeah. It's like he's. He's having it both ways.

[Joanna Robinson]

Did mean that about his wife and his child, apparently. Yeah.

[Rob Mahoney]

Everything is a symbol. Everything is literal.

[Joanna Robinson]

Everything's a storm.

[Rob Mahoney]

It really is.

[Joanna Robinson]

Everything's a wilted flower emoji. Anything else? You know, how many flashbacks do you have tolerance for? Because, listen, we get this, like, black and white opener, which is a first prison flashback, and inside the prison flashback, there's a colored flashback to Max Katie's dead wife, who's maybe not dead.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

And the ultrasound.

[Rob Mahoney]

Can I ask you a question about the prison flashback?

[Joanna Robinson]

Oh, please.

[Rob Mahoney]

Is there any thought in your mind that Anna and Tom would be so ghoulish as to be, like, behind a hit on Max Katie in prison?

[Joanna Robinson]

I don't think so.

[Rob Mahoney]

Seems beyond what they're capable of, though.

[Joanna Robinson]

If Anna's like, let's tie these loose ends. I don't want anyone to ever know that I had sex with him or that he's the biological father of my child. You know, that's possible.

[Rob Mahoney]

What a web we weave.

[Joanna Robinson]

But if, you know, if she had sex with Max Katie, like, when she was representing him and she was not sober, at the time, which drugs or otherwise. Like, that's, that's, you know. Are we gonna get a flashback to 17 years ago max and Anna and their affair?

[Rob Mahoney]

Yes.

[Joanna Robinson]

Okay. We're doing like a cgi.

[Rob Mahoney]

No, I, I don't. No, no, sorry. I'm walking that back. I don't think we're getting the actual flashback. I think we'll just get expository scenes where they talk about it.

[Joanna Robinson]

Okay. We're going to get Tom childhood flashbacks. I think we'll get more poster sort

[Rob Mahoney]

of situation, whatever is in that room.

[Joanna Robinson]

Anna and her dad flashbacks.

[Rob Mahoney]

I don't know if we'll get that one literally.

[Joanna Robinson]

Okay.

[Rob Mahoney]

But clearly he's going to be back around at some point.

[Joanna Robinson]

I feel like we're just getting as many flashbacks as we can to fill the 10 episodes of this show.

[Rob Mahoney]

Do you think we will get more flashbacks or in Cape Fear tradition, one of Anna or Tom walking out onto their porch and looking out into the darkness holding a weapon of some kind?

[Joanna Robinson]

They have to do that.

[Rob Mahoney]

I mean, they've already done it like five times.

[Joanna Robinson]

It is. It is Cape Fear required.

[Rob Mahoney]

But how many times is the question

[Joanna Robinson]

to shoot it into the. Just shoot the gun into the. Empty the clip into the darkness.

[Rob Mahoney]

It's the only way to be safe.

[Joanna Robinson]

All right. Anything else you want to talk about, Joe?

[Rob Mahoney]

I have a couple quick hitting things before we get out of here. Tom has this line. At the very beginning of episode one, she split herself into two different people. It's a 14 hour procedure, but if you survive it, you get a lot done. Is that a severance joke?

[Joanna Robinson]

I hope so.

[Rob Mahoney]

On apple, it's like it feels too coincidental.

[Joanna Robinson]

I hope so.

[Rob Mahoney]

Feels like it has to be. He also says that skunks are dumb.

[Joanna Robinson]

Is that true?

[Rob Mahoney]

Tough for the skunk community.

[Joanna Robinson]

Is that true?

[Rob Mahoney]

I did a lot of research on this. It does not seem to be true.

[Joanna Robinson]

Pigeon hater Rob Mahoney Skunk lover.

[Rob Mahoney]

Skunks seem like a better. Like better members of the community.

[Joanna Robinson]

To be honest, I'd take a skunk over a possum, I'll tell you that much right now.

[Rob Mahoney]

I don't have a problem with that. Possum, I think. Don't fire. You know what? Don't fire nail guns at the possums. They didn't do anything to you.

[Joanna Robinson]

Don't. For the nail gun in general Kelly. That's a Chekhov's nail gun that you

[Rob Mahoney]

think that's going to be wielded.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah, that nail is coming back.

[Rob Mahoney]

I hope. I hope against the Right person. I don't know who that is.

[Joanna Robinson]

Stray nail gun in the house.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah, it's pretty gnarly already. I did find a lot of skunk materials out there, insisting that they are quite intelligent and quite smart. That said, most of the sources seem like pet skunk propaganda, so I don't know if that's true or not, but a quick shout out before we get out of here. Paul Schneider of Paul Parks and Rec fame. Notorious Mark Brandanowitz, I want to say, written off the show. The problem with all of season one appears very briefly as a cop. I hope we see him again.

[Joanna Robinson]

Really?

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah, that's him in the hospital. One of the guys who's interrogating Max. Katie.

[Joanna Robinson]

I love Paul Schneider. I completely missed it.

[Rob Mahoney]

I think you're beard blind right now. I guess a little facial hair and just, like, can't even see these guys anymore.

[Joanna Robinson]

Schneider entirely. Well, he'll come back, I'm sure. And he'll probably die would be my guess.

[Rob Mahoney]

If you are a law enforcement official or anyone just around around this family, watch out. I fear your life is in danger.

[Joanna Robinson]

Watch out. Follow up question. Last question. Do you think Savannah Coffee Roasters got some money for the product placement inside of this episode?

[Rob Mahoney]

They should have paid some money for the product placement this episode. I've just had my toe cut off.

[Joanna Robinson]

But you I want to is a fresh, hot cup, black. Savannah Coffee Roasters.

[Rob Mahoney]

It was way too specific. I mean, here's the question. Do you want that kind of publicity if you're Savannah Coffee Roasters?

[Joanna Robinson]

I don't want Zach as my spokesman.

[Rob Mahoney]

No tolus Zach.

[Joanna Robinson]

Also, I think. I think Tom's wearing, like, a local ice cream shop shirt at one point. So I think they're trying to be like, we're really in Savannah. But I just thought that was a really weird line.

[Rob Mahoney]

I did look up the reviews for Savannah Coffee Roasters. I gotta say, the service didn't seem great.

[Joanna Robinson]

Oh, no.

[Rob Mahoney]

But it was consistently like, you know what? The coffee's pretty good. But these people did not pay attention to me. What is wrong with coffee shops today?

[Joanna Robinson]

Like, Tom's brewing at home. They're not going. I thought he was. When he said, I would like a. A black hot cup of Savannah, I was like, are they doordashing this? What are they doing? You know?

[Rob Mahoney]

God, one of them was going to pop out and go get it.

[Joanna Robinson]

No, the service is bad. You got to brew at home.

[Rob Mahoney]

Got to buy the beans.

[Joanna Robinson]

Savannah Coffee Roasters. All right, Savannah Coffee Roasters, you want to send us some beans?

[Rob Mahoney]

Can I take a sample? Sure, why not?

[Joanna Robinson]

You want to hit them with that email one more time?

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah, that email is thinkofabycarrotmail.com or if you prefer prestigetvpotify.com.

[Joanna Robinson]

yeah, the inbox is always open. Yes, we are wrapping up Widow's Bay. There's a couple more episodes of Widow's Bay left, and we're, you know, sort of figuring it out as we go.

[Rob Mahoney]

We're looking around, we're eyeing the landscape,

[Joanna Robinson]

but we really would like to hear from you whether or not you're all in on Cape Fear and you. You would like us to cover Cape Fear in. In the way that we cover shows.

[Rob Mahoney]

Just straight up. Are you watching it? Like, we have no idea what the imprint of this show will be. Presumed Innocent feels like a bellwether. But, you know, these things can be lightning in a bottle or savannah storms in a. Whatever.

[Joanna Robinson]

I will say, if people ask me, should I watch Cape Fear? Here's what I will say. I'd watch Javier Bardem do almost anything.

[Rob Mahoney]

He's so good in this.

[Joanna Robinson]

He's incredibly good at this. We haven't. So stupid. We haven't talked about that yet. Like, guess what? He's fantastic.

[Rob Mahoney]

He's really.

[Joanna Robinson]

I also love Amy Adams in like, a very southern murdery limited series. I'm a big fan of that. Patrick Wilson I'm always a huge fan of. I think he has, like, he's got such, like, Captain America dripped in handsome, dipped in handsome good looks that, like, I think he gets underestimated. And I just think he's incredibly good. And I'm really excited. I love his, like, you know, dad making inappropriate jokes when he's like, I could pop it on ice. Pop that toe back on for. You know what I mean? Like, I just love what he's doing with Tom so far.

[Rob Mahoney]

I love Tom's balance of, like, we're told he's like the head of his class in law school, like, top of his class, but also he has that kind of like, dad low eq. Like, I'm gonna blurt out all of my son's psychological problems in the middle of this hospital and just tell everyone all about it. Like, poor situational.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah, his dad is like, did you see adolescence

[Rob Mahoney]

also? Look, we are, I would say we are of the people of the ring, are maybe co counselors in the defense of Amy Adams. We have been on the forefront.

[Joanna Robinson]

It's true.

[Rob Mahoney]

I'm not going to pretend that everything she's in that she's like, I can't miss or like, never misses sort of actor. But her highs are exceptional. They're so good. Remains to be seen if this is gonna be that like, I, I do, I do love the premise of her in this story. I will say both of their Southern accents are like real spotty in these first two episodes. Sometimes they're using them, sometimes they're not. To be honest, I don't even care. I'm having a fun time.

[Joanna Robinson]

Here's what kind of love Javier Bardem is doing a. Like, I was raised in Spain until I was 13 and then I learned English traumatically in North Carolina. Right. That's his accent. He's got like, there's something sort of dialed in, something countryside about the way that he's speaking English. We should say dodgy accents are a proud tradition at Cape Fear because what the fuck is De Niro doing?

[Rob Mahoney]

It's very true.

[Joanna Robinson]

In his Oscar nominated role.

[Rob Mahoney]

I'm going to call it homage.

[Joanna Robinson]

Okay. That's prestige of something. Yeah. So I would say if people were like, should I watch this show? I would say, yeah, yeah, watch this show. Are we all going to regret that? Around episode seven, possibly stringing at the

[Rob Mahoney]

story is going to be a challenge. I look forward to seeing how they handle it. I would say this is one though, where if you are very skittish about being followed, stalking, like, I think this would be a really hard watch if you. There are a lot of people just like creeping up on each other for absolutely no reason in this show.

[Joanna Robinson]

Sure.

[Rob Mahoney]

Other than that, I think it's well enough made and I am intrigued.

[Joanna Robinson]

Okay. What's a normal amount to be worried about stalking versus an abnormal amount to be worried about?

[Rob Mahoney]

I don't know where to draw those lines. Is that for me to say?

[Joanna Robinson]

Thanks, everyone who worked on this show. Jacob Cornett is here, as always, holding it down. Cameron Dinwiddie is, you know, doing the edit on this podcast. Shout out to our team who are in Sweden as we speak, living it up, and we'll be back with Widow's Bay and perhaps more of the show. Oh, and last, last but not least, Ron Perlman's in the show. We don't know who he's playing yet. Patrick Fishler, who's always really fun, is in this show. We don't know who he's playing yet. I hope, like, an even scummier podcaster would be a fun role for a whole podcaster ecosystem. Are we, Are we doing okay? We keep saying goodbye and coming back, but are we doing a retrial of Max Cady. Because he's been. He's real provisionally released.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yes.

[Joanna Robinson]

And they haven't. They're gonna. There's some sort of trial that he has to do.

[Rob Mahoney]

Oh, is there?

[Joanna Robinson]

That's. That's sort of what I got from CCH Pounder's character Noah, when. When. When Anna's like, but we're not even taking his case. And she's like, but she's saying, like,

[Rob Mahoney]

the case is done. He's already out.

[Joanna Robinson]

Well, she's like, I thought she was saying, he's provisionally released. I believe she. I believe that really said provisionally released. So I think there is, like, something that has to come. Is it a court case? Is it a something else? You know, just paperwork has to be filed. I don't know what that case, you

[Rob Mahoney]

know, is, but here's one other loose end we didn't talk about too.

[Joanna Robinson]

This is actually what Presumed Innocent season two is.

[Rob Mahoney]

Wow. A full time. Honestly, they would kind of fit of a world. I don't know how, like Rachel Brosnahan defending Javier Bardem, especially season two, is in Chicago. I don't know how we get to Savannah or vice versa. But one thing I'm still wondering about is, like, we are told that Max, Katie is basically urged by Anna to take this plea deal, right. For what he believes is like a 20 year sentence to save his life. A 20 year sentence?

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Rob Mahoney]

Then something happens and it sounds like the judge, based on his telling, unilaterally decides that this is a life sentence. I didn't like. I don't know if that's an exaggeration or maybe I'm misconstruing what he's saying.

[Joanna Robinson]

Missed a detail there.

[Rob Mahoney]

What we know for a fact is he was given a life sentence. You don't plea for a life sentence in the vast majority of cases, I guess. Unless the death penalty is on the line. So what even happened with the plea deal? I don't know.

[Joanna Robinson]

Doesn't seem great. Legally, no. Okay. I think we did it.

[Rob Mahoney]

I think so too.

[Joanna Robinson]

I think we made a podcast.

[Rob Mahoney]

Thank you, Joe.

[Joanna Robinson]

Thank you, Rob. We'll see you soon. Bye.

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[Rob Mahoney]

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The sun is relentless, but so is our gear.

[Rob Mahoney]

Level up your [e-mail] to spend more time outside and less time slathering on aloe lotion. You're welcome, Columbia. Engineered for Whatever

[Joanna Robinson]

have no fear. Chosen Foods is here to defend your favorite foods from the forces of seedy oils and sketchy ingredients. With cooking oils, salad dressings and mayo, all powered by the good fats from 100% pure avocado oil and simple, delicious ingredients. Chosen Foods.