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- [00:01]
A
I sold my car in Carvana last night.
- [00:02]
B
Well, that's cool.
- [00:03]
A
No, you don't understand. It went perfectly. Real offer down to the penny. They're picking it up tomorrow. Nothing went wrong.
- [00:09]
B
So what's the problem?
- [00:11]
A
That is the problem. Nothing in my life goes as smoothly. I'm waiting for the catch.
- [00:14]
B
Maybe there's no catch.
- [00:16]
A
That's exactly what a catch would want me to think.
- [00:18]
B
Wow. You need to relax.
- [00:20]
A
I need to knock on wood. Do we have wood? Is this table wood?
- [00:22]
B
I think it's laminate.
- [00:23]
A
Okay. Yeah, that's good. That's close enough.
- [00:25]
B
Car selling without a catch.
- [00:26]
C
Sell your car today on Carvana.
- [00:29]
B
Pick up. Fees may apply.
- [00:31]
D
This episode is brought to you by Viori. When it comes to clothes that score high in both comfort and style, Viori is my MVP Sunday performance. Joggers. Oh, yeah. They have the perfect I could watch a game then go out to dinner vibe and the meta pant. That's my number one I need to look like I tried option. Get 20% off your first purchase at viori.com simmons and discover the versatility of Viori clothing exclusions apply. Visit the website for full terms and conditions.
- [01:16]
B
Hello. Welcome back to the Prestige TV podcast feed. I'm Joanna Robinson.
- [01:18]
A
I am Rob Mahoney.
- [01:19]
B
We're here with episode three of Euphoria season three. Baby. How you feeling, Rob? Mixed. Mixed.
- [01:26]
A
Yeah.
- [01:27]
B
All right, let's talk about it. It's a wedding episode. This episode is called Ballad of the Paladin which as they mentioned inside the episode is a reference to the have gone will travel.
- [01:38]
A
Right.
- [01:39]
B
Famed western TV show Paladin. How are you feeling? Like does the dog die?.com is some is a website you frequent a lot. How do you feel about does the parrot die dot com?
- [01:47]
A
I'm somehow better about it. I would rather a pair if I'm having to choose.
- [01:51]
B
You're anti bird.
- [01:53]
A
That's not what I said. Not what I said. But if I had to choose a parrot to die or a dog to die, I'm sorry, the parrot's got to go. Did even Having said that. Yeah, my heart twinge when poor Paladin fell off his perch and spasmed to death. Of course it did. I'm but a man.
- [02:08]
B
I left. I'm sorry.
- [02:11]
A
So you really do want birds to die.
- [02:13]
B
I don't love a bird. I am pretty anti. Birds in the wild are great but domestic birds, I don't think they're meant to be kept in cages.
- [02:21]
A
I think you're right about that. But we're gonna need to unpack this in greater detail at some point.
- [02:25]
B
First, let's do a quick mailbag. Can you remind the folks where they can reach us if they want to email us about Euphoria specifically?
- [02:31]
A
I would love to, Joe. They can reach us@prestigetvpotify.com all the time.
- [02:35]
B
Yeah.
- [02:35]
A
But in this case, Matty's number one, boymail.com. and if that's too much for you, you can find it in the show notes for this pot. So just scroll down, copy, paste, bing, bang, boom. Send us your euphoria takes at your leisure.
- [02:47]
B
Yeah. Bing, bang, boom. All right, so we got a lot of emails about Sydney Sweeney.
- [02:53]
A
As one does.
- [02:54]
B
I think she's swallowing a lot of the conversation around this show and definitely taking up a lot of air inside of this episode, which we can talk about, which I was sort of hoping would be more of a Jules episode. And it still feels like it's the Cassie and Nate show more than I would like it to be. On Euphoria, we can talk about all of that. But we got an email from our listener Andy, who wrote in to talk about, you know, we know that these actors shot these episodes between other projects. We know they were quite busy. How did schedules align? And Andy is wondering, were any of these people ever in the same room together? Andy was calling out a few different ways in which things were framed. That was like. It doesn't seem like even Sydney Sweeney and Jacob Elordi are in the room together sometimes. Or Hunter Schaeffer and Zendaya are in the same room together because.
- [03:44]
A
And these are in episodes one and two that he's talking about.
- [03:47]
B
Right, Right. And I don't know that I agree with every single one that Andy called out here, but I do think in this episode.
- [03:56]
A
Oh, my God, Joe.
- [03:59]
B
The complicated machinations of. Who's actually physically in the same space as someone else at the Cassie Nate wedding, who was pretty distracting and hilarious. Anything you want to outline here?
- [04:09]
A
I would argue it's not even one wedding. It's like four separate weddings. And shout out to Maud Apatow, the hardest working woman in show business, who I presume showed up on four completely different dates, probably on different continents, to shoot different wedding scenes with different people,
- [04:23]
B
to go back, get back into that hideous pink dress. And she's like, I'm here. I'm. I'm here to work.
- [04:27]
A
The only sense of continuity we have,
- [04:29]
B
the only person no one seems to have an issue with. Matt. What a. What a joy. Zendaya. Specifically for Rue to Be like, I'm going to this wedding. Just kidding. Bye. I'm leaving before I have to be in a reception hall near anyone else was. Was pretty incredible. But I think specifically having, like, Maddie, Jules, and Rue sort of, like, in these reaction shots by themselves, I thought
- [04:54]
A
was pretty funny, but never once, like, in the background, as, you know, Cassie is walking by or anything like that. The one that I would really need to be convinced of. They make a big show of this scene in which the three of them, Lexi. Are all up on the balcony as Nate and Cassie are taking wedding photos. And it's like, if that's not movie magic, I'm gonna need, like, triple confirmation. I know they're really trying to sell you that these people are in the same place, but I don't even think that they could be that close to each other.
- [05:20]
B
There have been, like, longtime rumors that, you know, the various animosities between cast members has influenced the way in which Euphoria can be written. Certain people allegedly will not film with other people. So it might not even be a scheduling thing. It might just be a personal history. I don't work with this person type of thing, which I get.
- [05:38]
A
Like, Kai and I can't be in the same room anymore. Absolutely.
- [05:41]
B
Kai just has to sit in that, like, the little booth next door. Sad.
- [05:45]
A
It's very sad.
- [05:45]
B
Really tough. Really tough. That was a messy breakup you guys had. All right. Olivia wrote in about Zendaya as Rue and said young Heath Ledger. I can't unsee it. The way she moves, the charm, the smirk. It reminds me so much of Heath Ledger's comportment in 10 Things I Hate about yout Lords of Dogtown and Candy. I love to see that similar spark again. It makes me want to rewatch some other Zenday and see if there's a thread there or if it's just Rue. And then I want you to react to that before we get to the other part of Olivia's email.
- [06:15]
A
I had never put this together, but I love it.
- [06:17]
B
I really saw, like, once she laid it out and you think about Heath Ledger sort of like dancing, you know, to cross, you're just too good to be true. Like, you can sort of see the combo there. I love that comp.
- [06:28]
A
And I think the grins in particular, yeah, there is something about, like, the mischievousness that they can play, but it's just, like, unendingly charismatic. And I think even with Heath early, it was so clear that, like, okay, how do you want to channel this? How do you want to capture it? What is the right volume for it. And that seems to be like the constant conversation with Zendaya too. As far as, like, this is a really special quality that you have on screen, but how can we deploy it without stretching it too far too thin and keep its like, magic?
- [06:56]
B
Somebody do a composite of Julia Stiles and Heath Ledger up on the balcony at the prom and do things I hate about you and that foursome that you mentioned up at the balcony at the wedding. And let's see if the comp stands.
- [07:07]
A
Well, honestly, especially, we know that Jules loves Romeo and Juliet at least enough to wear the costume.
- [07:11]
B
That's true.
- [07:12]
A
I would imagine they've also seen teen things I hate about you. No.
- [07:14]
B
Oh, these 90s obsessed kids, for some reason have definitely seen it. All right. And then Olivia goes on to say, on a more somber note, I fear angel turned that corner and got sex trafficked. This rehab could be a money laundering scheme for Alamo and simultaneously a way to profit on girls who have become otherwise unprofitable to him. If the double heist happens, I hope it somehow saves angel from this fate in the process. Perhaps in Sam Levinson's quest to copy paste Tarantino, we'll get a little unlikely hero overcoming true evil story a la and glorious basterds Dango unchanged and once upon time in Hollywood with a Rue versus sex trafficking plot. Rue always messes things up, but it'd be nice for once if. For once. And to end her story, she got to fail upwards. So I think this. And I've. I've seen it mentioned a couple. I think this idea that, like, it's not a place to just sort of bump off problematic strippers, but put them, you know, to work in a different industry, that's. That's a light. It's not to work in a different industry.
- [08:15]
A
That's sex trafficking. Sex trafficking as recruiting.
- [08:18]
B
That's. That's the next season of industry, essentially. But like, yeah, sex trafficking. Horrifying to contemplate, but it makes more business sense than the scenario that I was coming up with last week. What do you think about.
- [08:30]
A
I do think it checks out. I was also left wondering at the end of this episode, you know, we see Rue get pulled over by the cops and the DEA specifically, or if that's how they represent themselves, I assume it to be true. Unless we're told otherwise, led me to reconsider the mysterious person smoking a cigarette outside the rehab facility. I had thought and we had talked about, oh, is this maybe somebody who works for Alamo, who then is Going to go take care of Angel. Now I'm wondering is that a law enforcement official staking out this place and they're about to roll Ru into some kind of like CI wearing a wire.
- [08:59]
B
That's how Rue got on the radar. I mean, I certainly think Rue is going to be rolled into a sort of like CIA wearing a wire scenario. I don't see a way in which she gets out of that, presuming they are indeed the DEA pulling her over. But that's a, that's a great shout. I would like to go back and look at that guy and definitely. Yeah, okay. And then we get a couple sort of Sydney Sweeney defender emails.
- [09:21]
A
Dominique, defending from what?
- [09:23]
B
From our harsh words.
- [09:26]
A
Were we harsh?
- [09:28]
B
Tough but fair.
- [09:29]
A
I don't even think we were particularly harsh. I didn't feel particularly harsh. I think she is giving a good performance on this show.
- [09:35]
B
Sydney Sweeney, what a piece of work could be considered harsh.
- [09:37]
A
Possibly some people on this podcast harsher than others, perhaps.
- [09:40]
B
So Dominique wrote about sort of Cassie. Don't get me wrong, what she did to her friends was awful. But deep down, Cassie still felt like just a girl with daddy issues, trust issues, and a lot of emotional baggage that led her to make bad decisions. Feels like they flattened her into something else entirely. I sound like a Cassie apologist, which I don't mean to be, but I think they really missed the mark with her character. I saw that. Did you see that? The like a semi viral tweet that went around where, where people were complaining about this. They're like, season one, Cassie would never be like this. And there was a quote tweet that said, you mean the girl who orgasm on affairs marrying around horse. So I don't know that Cassie, but we talked about, you know, some of the like, especially one of my favorite. I think one of the most artistically interesting choices they made in season one was when Cassie has the abortion and we see this ice skating sort of routine that goes along with it like that Cassie, that sort of emotional depth or fragility I would say is absent from the version we're getting here in season three.
- [10:38]
A
Agreed, Agreed. And frankly, in defense of the carousel orgasm, like there is a performativity and an agency to that version of Cassie where it's like I'm looking to get revenge. Right? Like I'm looking for something in a way that the current vacant form of Cassie I don't even think has that like she really is just kind of like floating in space, waiting to be told what to do. Absent reaching out for the nearest floral arrangement that happens to catch her eye. So I think it's been a two season process of season one. Cassie. Yes. Not the most like, intellectually stimulated character, but somebody who had actual definable traits and over two seasons I think has gotten sanded down into like performative sex object.
- [11:20]
B
Right.
- [11:21]
A
In this engaging of like ongoing humiliation ritual.
- [11:24]
B
And I think part of that has to do with like how they've dramatically changed Nate.
- [11:28]
A
Yep.
- [11:29]
B
Cassie's sort of toxic relationship with Nate in season two has. There's more there there than Cassie and the Nate that we get here who is, as we've said, unrecognizable. So, okay, this is what Paul said. The main criticism I have, the writing this season is that it really feels like Sam Levinson thinks that Rue should act like a straight man because she's attracted to women. The way she leers and ogles at women. She wants to work in a strip club because all the women are hot and that's cool. And thinks that working for a likely human trafficker is the best because she likes girls too. That sounds like shit. I would have thought in high school before I actually knew any women. Rue is in her early 20s, so yeah, having a libido is fine, but for someone who was depicted as at the very least having a complicated sexuality, it feels a little jarring having her being so horny that she ignores all the sex work and danger for the women around her. I'm sure that's something that will get explored and used in future episodes, but it feels weird in the first place. I think there's a lot of, well, five years happened you can do to explain that away logically. But I don't know if a logical explanation of something like this feels like enough for me. It can be logical and still feel out of place. Rue doesn't have to be the exact same character. The person she is now should hopefully feel connected to some of the characters core values. And something I considered a core value of hers was that despite how much her fuck ups hurt those around her, she was sensitive of others and that often made things worse for her. When her addict brain went over, I thought that was a critical aspect of the way she experienced her addiction. So this goes that that flag on the sexuality question I think is really important because in season two there was this whole issue with Jules not feeling like, you know, Rue was talking about the way in which her drugs impacted her libido.
- [13:06]
A
Yes.
- [13:06]
B
But not feeling like Rue was like a very sexual person. You know, that whole question with Elliott, with Jules, with Rue. And that is a clear aspect of her character that is absent from this season. And I've been enjoying like the spark and the charisma and the comedy of it, but it, but it dovetails into this other problem I have, which I raised last week, which is that Rue as addict and sort of like, if Rue is still using.
- [13:36]
A
Yeah.
- [13:38]
B
Which she is clearly. And she's just fine, you know, like, as far as her day to day operations in what we're seeing this season. I think that's really bizarre when the whole story was about how her addiction rendered her ability to live a life impossible.
- [13:58]
A
Yeah. I think there's a lot of muddling around Rue's addiction at this point, both in the sense of how it's manifesting in her day to day life. This is someone who we've seen just like really struggle having any sort of healthy balance to the extent that that's ever possible with drugs that are that hard when she is partaking. And at the same time, she's also like, still kind of going through the steps vis a vis accepting God in her life, or at least trying to accept God in her life. So it's like, how are you if you're constantly going back to the start?
- [14:26]
B
Right.
- [14:26]
A
I don't, I don't really understand that part of the story, to be honest with you right now. And I, I'm kind of assuming she's going to fall hard at some point this season. It just feels like the natural cycle of where that character would end up and maybe, maybe the tension or the anxiety of being a CI or even just like learning what happened to angel or whatever, you know, whatever course this, this story takes, you could see that kind of sending her down that sort of road. But I, I agree. It's. It's a weird part of her story right now, and the larger kind of metamorphosis of her sexuality is odd. And I'm okay with some of the oddity, as you said, because of the way it's played for comedy and because I think it's interesting even if it's not true to character. This episode strained it a little bit in the sense that it's one thing for Rue to get this new job and be kind of moving up in her new world, but she has escalated
- [15:13]
B
from she's a gun runner, now she's
- [15:15]
A
a fucking arms dealer. I mean, we've gone from taking care of the girls. And you could understand how Rue herself might talk herself into thinking, okay, I am to look out for people like angel and drive her to rehab. And therefore I'm still kind of living within myself there to selling drugs, at least participating in it to now selling guns. I just, I think even with the whole like, we're gonna do the RU slideshow thing and kind of like have her speaking to us via the vo, via camera, all that stuff is.
- [15:44]
B
It was fun, but also hard to track.
- [15:47]
A
But also what?
- [15:48]
B
Yeah. Last email from Brian just reads, I'm Maddie's number one boy. How dare you do you. Rob, would you like to respond? Would you like to fight Brian? Like, how do you feel?
- [15:58]
A
It's a big tent.
- [15:59]
B
Okay. You know, many number ones in the tent.
- [16:01]
A
There are many of us in here. We welcome everybody. Number one boys, number one girls. Anyone who wants to be a part.
- [16:06]
B
Okay.
- [16:07]
A
We are one in the church of Maddie.
- [16:09]
B
Our producer Dev flagged something which was a social post from Labyrinth. We've discussed that Labyrinth's music, which was so core to the first season, two seasons of Euphoria, is missing here. In the third season, we had discussed some sort of like, public posts from Labyrinth about a messy breakup with the show. My understanding is that Labyrinth had written some music for the show and was maybe supposed to be working with Hans Zimmer or. I don't know all of the details, but Labyrinth basically wrote a post a couple weeks ago saying I'm pulling all my music from Euphoria Season 3, and just recently posted something that they then deleted. But we have the evidence. The the Internet remembers. Labyrinth wrote I should release a song every Sunday at 6pm Right. And use the drama and the people who have supported me for years to generate more sales. Yeah, that's a great idea. And then some emojis. And then in the caption, Labyrinth wrote, reduce my music to online fodder. I wanted to continue so I can readjust my relationship with music, figure out how to be present and take in the joy of connecting with people who care about my work. But it comes with an exchange. Become a fame thirsty idiot.
- [17:11]
A
As people who are also trying to be present in their work, but also enjoy a sense of. This is what I'm wondering. Like, we want the community and the work. Are we fame thirsty idiots?
- [17:21]
B
We're fame thirsty. We're idiots. But I don't know if we're fame for fame Thursday.
- [17:25]
A
I'll take that side of it. If we're going to pick.
- [17:26]
B
Yeah.
- [17:27]
A
I would rather the idiots say yeah.
- [17:29]
B
Anything you want to say about Labyrinth's message here?
- [17:32]
A
It's hard to know. I mean, clearly this is Not a good situation for somebody who is so instrumental to the look and feel, specifically the feel of the show with its sound. Overall, the scoring this season is not bad, but it's kind of generic to me.
- [17:46]
B
Yeah, it's very flat. I mean, so something we should say about Hans Zimmer. The way that Hans Zimmer works is that he has sort of like a fleet of composers that work under him. So just say, just because something is quote unquote composed by Hans Zimmer, it does not mean that Hans himself was, like, pouring over every note.
- [18:00]
A
It's from his stable.
- [18:01]
B
Yeah, from. From the studio of Hans Zimmer. So I don't know if Hans himself actually worked on this show at all or if it was one of the comp. Many composers in his employ, but the music is fine.
- [18:15]
A
It's perfectly fine.
- [18:16]
B
I have seen a couple people rescore scenes from this season with labyrinth music, and it. And it hits a lot harder, I would say. The one that I saw that I really enjoyed was Maddie's entrance into the pool club, the scene that we really liked. But imagine that with, like, some labyrinth
- [18:33]
A
music playing over or her walking into the wedding in this episode. I think there's just so many of
- [18:37]
B
those moments, and it just, like, it was such a core part of what made euphoria feel like euphoria. So I think the show is poorer for not having the music. But again, yeah, I agree with you. I think the music is fine. It's just not exceptional, which is what it used to be.
- [18:53]
A
I think the only reason they can really get away with it is because you have this significant period of time between seasons two and three, and the show's already doing kind of a larger reinvention. So it's like, okay, it's going to sound different. The characters are going to be different. This episode, though, is kind of where I really bumped up against how not euphoria this felt.
- [19:13]
B
Brings me to my next question. Rob, did you like this episode of television?
- [19:16]
A
I didn't dislike it, I think. I mean, ultimately I was fine with it. You got your Seuss.
- [19:21]
B
Your Seuss content.
- [19:22]
A
I have a lot to say about Sue's. I just thought there was something very clearly, discernibly off in this episode. And I say that because I could tell that the show wanted Cassie and Nate's wedding to feel like a big deal, and to me, it did not. And I could tell that it wants everything that happens on the wedding night to feel like this big, dramatic swerve. And, okay, like, it was surprising, but it didn't really mean anything to me. And so this is where I kind of come back to the stitching together of who was together when in the filming of this show. Cause I think that's more than just like a punchline and something we can kind of joke about. When you're asking these actors to be like, okay, have a conversation with a tennis ball and pretend that it's Hunter Schaeffer, and then you're wanting to capture the magic of what Euphoria is, I just think that's gonna be kind of impossible.
- [20:08]
B
I actually do think that Hunter was there for most of it.
- [20:12]
A
She did seem among the more present between the various groups.
- [20:15]
B
And, like, I think we can talk about the Jules intro. Like, we had a 10. Like a solid 10 minute intro with Jules inside this episode. Before we get the title of Euphoria, um, we get a Jules and Nate scene, a Jules and Cal scene. You know, there's like a lot going on there. But to your point about sort of like acting who's. Who's where and who's acting against whom, this is a. I mentioned that Jacob Elordi is not doing presser on the show, and that is true. But clever journalists in the world asked him plenty of Euphoria questions when he was doing Frankenstein Press. So there are some old quotes from the end of last year where Jacob Elordi is talking about the process of working on Euphoria. And here's what he said to Entertainment Weekly. Last year, I had no time to get ready for it, and I didn't have scripts in any kind of full sense. Usually I would like. And then he sort of tries to pin this as, like, frame. This as like, a good problem to have. He says, usually I would like to obsess over what I was doing and understand what was happening and have the time to go through every element and construct it and put it together. I was coming off a plane from somewhere, and later I had a small amount of time to fit in a lot of work. And so I hit a point where I could only go day by day. I could only do what was handed to me that day, and then try to invent something basic on what I know of the character based on what I see on the set live in front of me. Because I had no choice. I got to be free in the acting process because it was kind of just throwing shit at the wall and seeing what would stick. Less thinking about what feels real and more about, like, how does this work in the frame? Or is this funny? Or not funny. I had a more relaxed way of approaching playing a character, you know, what an actor. So that's Jacob Mullardy's description of working on Euphoria season three, if that gives us any insight into sort of what a someone with a busier schedule in the cast was forced to do. And I agree, like, I like, I really like a lot of the Jules stuff in the side of this episode, but I'll be curious to see how people react to it. But I actually really liked that 10 minute intro section. Rue's stuff remains incredibly compelling to me. It's just Cassie and Nate is not interesting to me. So Cassie and Nate's wedding is not going to be. Especially when I have to spend once again so much time watching Sydney Sweeney like cry hysterically.
- [22:17]
A
They were really playing the hits, you
- [22:18]
B
know, just like, like a histrionic sort of reaction. She's screaming, she's like firing a champagne cork at his, at his eyeball and no one's really paying that much attention. It's very odd. The whole dance sequence, which I think was supposed to be high comedy, would just really just at the end of the day annoyed me.
- [22:35]
A
Not just high comedy, but that felt like one of the moments where they're reaching for the meme, like specifically Sydney Sweeney, like cry, twerking. It's like they know what they're doing and they're trying to interact with the reputation of the show. And honestly, I find nothing more off putting in terms of modern television than when you can feel them reaching for like the quote card or the gif or whatever. That kind of like grabbable moment that's supposed to feel that way. And it just, it feels a little, a little gross.
- [23:02]
B
Only fame thirsty podcasters are allowed to do that. I thought Jacob Elordi's comedy blood gurgling performance was quite good.
- [23:11]
A
Everything.
- [23:11]
B
Sydney Smedy was actually quite annoying to me, really. But him in the background like gurgling blood. And I guess it's the contrast of course is like the source of the comedy. But him being like pulled down their incredibly tacky stairs onto their incredibly tacky carpet after their incredibly tacky, very expensive wedding. And I laughed at that. And when the bird died, I did
- [23:33]
A
think it was funny. I think the entire sequence. I want to give Sydney Sweeney some credit. Specifically Cassie, like wailing, I'm bleeding as Nate gets his face bashed in. I did enjoy. I also enjoyed her commiserating or really nasty commiserating.
- [23:46]
B
Never listens.
- [23:46]
A
That was good.
- [23:47]
B
That got a huge laugh for me. Yeah. He never listens. Was really, really good.
- [23:50]
A
He's bringing people together.
- [23:51]
B
More of Naz and Cassie sort of being like, Nate, what a piece of shit, you know? Yeah.
- [23:56]
A
I'm glad that he got his signature move turned on him. You know, we've seen Nate do the, like, lurk and wait in an armchair for somebody many, many times on Euphoria. Got his comeuppance. Couldn't have happened to a worse guy.
- [24:07]
B
Yeah. Hate that guy. Love to see him hang up. All right, let's go a bit more in order. But that's sort of like the big picture, you and I. This was. If they were aiming for a sort of like Red Wedding, Connors wedding esque, HBO event moment, that's not quite what
- [24:23]
A
we got here, I would say, especially because this is one of the few signature events I would imagine, in which it actually makes sense to have all
- [24:29]
B
these people in wedding. I mean, for that, you know, they accomplished. It doesn't make sense to me. It makes sense to me why Maddie was. Was invited. That was explained to us. Yeah, it doesn't really make sense to me why Rue was invited.
- [24:42]
A
Rue was invited so that Jules can be invited. So that Rue can then leave.
- [24:45]
B
Yeah. And then Jules can be there and talk to Nate and to Cal.
- [24:49]
A
It's really it.
- [24:49]
B
Okay, baby. Being there, just an extra joy for all of us. Okay.
- [24:53]
A
Plus Nate's dumb brother. I did enjoy all. We'll get into it, but I appreciated all the callbacks.
- [24:58]
B
I always. Whenever he's in an episode, I always write down Josh Meyers, you know, Seth Meyers brother. Like, that's. He's like. He's the real Josh Meyers to date. Seth Meyers. And I like Josh Meyers, but, like, yeah, he's a real. He's a real dummy. It's Aaron, right?
- [25:13]
A
Aaron. Yeah.
- [25:13]
B
Aaron. Yeah. Okay, let's go back to the Jules intro. So a lot of fans. You know, I was poking around the Reddit boards this week and a lot of fans have been worried about what they call the sort of catification of Jules this season, given that she was absent from episode one and barely, like, just barely an episode two. So here she gets 10 minutes dedicated to her entirely. We've talked about the visuals before on Euphoria, about them sourcing special Kodak film. I thought this was like. There was something particularly absolutely, exquisitely gorgeous about the way this sequence was shot. I think very, you know, all of it. A lot of, like, deep, dark, bluish blacks with, you know, the pops of, like, red lips on Hunter Schaeffer or I think very specifically when she meets her sugar daddy, Ellis, when they're in that red booth. And it's just the way they're shot from sort of above is just like, extremely artistically beautiful. And then we get this sort of cellophane boxing Helena, very creepy move here at the end of this section. I'm really curious how people are gonna react to that, especially in a season where people are having a lot of conversations about the commodification of women and bodies and stuff like that. Of course, you know, this is, of course, a very intentionally engaging with that. Ellis is supposed to be a kind of creepy dude. I mean, it's Sam from True Blood, and I'm a fan, but, like, me too.
- [26:37]
A
But he has a darkness to him that I don't even think on True Blood he ever really got to fully play.
- [26:40]
B
No, Sam was like a, like, pretty good guy on True Blood, relatively.
- [26:44]
A
I don't think he's age a day.
- [26:45]
B
No.
- [26:45]
A
He could break up a swampy bar fight right now.
- [26:48]
B
He looks great. We've never. Have we ever talked about True Blood?
- [26:52]
A
I think so.
- [26:52]
B
You should.
- [26:53]
A
We stay away from fairy related conversations
- [26:55]
B
generally, but the Ellis. The casting call that went out for this character, Ellis, it said a white or Asian man with some, quote, coldness to him. So this is like, we're supposed to be sort of chilled by this person. What do you make about. You know, we had already sort of established that Jules was. Was in this dynamic. We get the explanation of how that happened.
- [27:16]
A
Yes.
- [27:17]
B
And an introduction of this character. Ellis, what did you think of all of this?
- [27:20]
A
I think as far as Jules goes, like, the part of this that I really enjoyed was seeing her kind of enter into this world and understand how it works. And specifically, the idea that rings true for me is that this would be easy for someone like Jules, who just, like, does have a power over a lot of other people, men and women alike.
- [27:38]
B
Power over me.
- [27:39]
A
I mean, all of us, frankly. And the fact that once she gets going, she, like, knows how easy it is for her.
- [27:45]
B
She's like, oh, I'm a clean house.
- [27:47]
A
I'm going to absolutely clean house. And you can see how a person like that would go from art student trying to subsidize their education to, like, this is just kind of my job now, and I'm gonna kind of buy art supplies with it and maybe still be an artist. But, like, this is a way of life.
- [28:00]
B
Are you worried about. I was like, all in. I was like, yeah, take these dumb fucks money and Then she's, like, calling
- [28:07]
A
her when it was just the finance Bros and the movie producers and the candlestick makers and the stocking lickers.
- [28:14]
B
But when she's, like, when she's dropping out of art school and then there's a line, it's like that she didn't really worry about making it as an artist anymore. And so then that just makes me worried that the easy money of this arrangement or becoming an artistic object rather than an artist creator, that seems, you know, I'm pro sex work, and I'm pro, you know, Jules taking money, like, separating idiots from their money. But if it means she's losing sight of this thing, this passion of hers, yeah, that worries me, of course.
- [28:48]
A
And specifically with this man who not only has a coldness to him, I do think there's something interesting and fertile potentially, about pairing Jules with a plastic surgeon. A lot of interesting conversations about identity that can be explored through something like that. But really, for me, it's about that coldness. And it's about this idea that you get into with him of, like, the combination of the anything can be improved plastic surgeon mentality plus the, like, I might just keep you forever sentiment that he expresses in this episode. That is. It's just on a different level than the nylon licking, right? Like, there's an indulgence of fetish that's happening all throughout this sequence. But for him, it is something that is more possessive, that is more controlling, that is more cellophane wrapped. Like, you are a prize that I'm going to put here like a statue.
- [29:33]
B
When we see you are an object.
- [29:35]
A
Exactly right.
- [29:35]
B
And when we see Jules come home from the wedding, and it's clear, I think, right? It's clear that he's there. And so she sort of gets herself ready, you know, she just, like, sort of slips into, like, always on the clock, right? Like, whenever he decides to leave his family for his proclivities, she's ready to go. I don't love that for Jules, personally,
- [29:54]
A
I don't love it either. Especially because of, like, if it is that kind of possessiveness and that kind of controlling what comes with it. What are the costs of these things if he's trying to get what he's paying for, so to speak?
- [30:05]
B
I do want to call it a bit of writing that, you know, sometimes there's writing on the show and you're like, what?
- [30:11]
A
I think I know exactly what it is. Is it a conversation with Vivian?
- [30:14]
B
No.
- [30:14]
A
Okay, I have one too. Then.
- [30:15]
B
Please tell me your name.
- [30:17]
A
I want to hear Yours first, Joe.
- [30:18]
B
The trick with Zendaya. Zendaya is Ru can say almost anything in a voiceover, and you're like, sounds great.
- [30:23]
A
Yep.
- [30:24]
B
Window's a time when anyone could strike it rich. Gold rush, Prohibition, cryptocurrency. It's all about timing. What does that mean, Sam Levinson.
- [30:34]
A
It means it's all about timing. She said it.
- [30:37]
B
Okay, but sex work is, like, till as old as time. So what is like. What is selling pickaxes in the gold rush about? Being a sugar baby.
- [30:46]
A
Aren't we told our oldest profession?
- [30:48]
B
Yeah, exactly.
- [30:49]
A
It's a great call. I don't know. What about this moment especially, you know, we get this larger conversation with Alamo about how, like, processes become so big that they get legalized. I mean, sugar. Sugar babying and daddying is certainly a gray area for all this, but I can't say this is the gold rush time for being a sugar baby. This kind of thing's been happening for a long time.
- [31:10]
B
That's just an evergreen profession.
- [31:12]
A
Well, let me try to try to match, if not one up you with some writing, as Jules and her roommate Vivian are talking about sugar babing and all that entails. This is a line from Vivian. The good thing about rich people is they actually have something to lose. All right, we're there. No, can't stop. The answer money. Just in case you didn't know what they have to lose, Vivian and Jules are here to tell you, thanks to
- [31:35]
B
Sam Levinson, one more piece of writing I want to call out. When Ellis says, I slice women open for a living, there's very little that makes me uncomfortable. Felt a little author insert to me. A little Sam moment, I think.
- [31:51]
A
Touche.
- [31:52]
B
All right. Anything else you want to say about this Jules intro?
- [31:54]
A
Let's keep it moving other than. I mean, we just need so much more. Jules, even still, and I share your frustration that for all of the buildup over the first two episodes, this was not so much more Jules than even what we got.
- [32:05]
B
I was glad for those 10 minutes. I thought the calcine was good. I thought the Nate scene was also good, but, you know, this episode is
- [32:12]
D
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- [34:10]
A
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- [34:40]
B
Thoughts RU is now arms dealing. As you mentioned, we I don't think we mentioned it last week, but I want to make sure of course to mention that Rosalia is here stripping in a neck brace, a bejeweled neck brace, jeweled neck brace. How do you feel about this?
- [34:56]
A
I also want to know. You know you read the casting call for Ellis earlier. I would love to hear the casting call for like mouth breathing dude who's gawking during her dance.
- [35:04]
B
Okay, I don't have that one. I have them for a few people, but I don't have them for the mouth breathing.
- [35:08]
A
I just want to know what they were looking for.
- [35:09]
B
Yeah, yeah, exactly. Okay. And then we get as you. As you mentioned, this is as close to sort of the slideshow charismatic Ru business that we get under a trench hose. Or maybe for the missus's sundress, the mention of. If it's any consolation, the majority of weapons I was selling were headed to Mexico, et cetera, et cetera. And then we get the. At least Alamo appreciated me. And then into this sort of legitimacy conversation. Anything you want to say about this you haven't already?
- [35:35]
A
Just that, I mean, Ru as a character. If we're saying that that character is taking jumps in some ways that we don't necessarily recognize. One of the things I deeply do recognize is like the devil may care part of Ru that's just kind of like floating through life. Fuck it. This is. I guess it'll work out. Or maybe it won't and we're just gonna kind of keep moving. That version of Rue I completely, completely believe would go to her boss and say, I know you are a drug selling, club operating, brothel running, drug, arms dealing, sex trafficking guy feeding people to pigs.
- [36:06]
B
Possibly.
- [36:07]
A
Who's to say? Yeah, but I'm looking to get legit at some point. I do believe that she would think that that's an okay and smart thing to say.
- [36:15]
B
In this sequence post Rosalia pre arms dealing, we do get a shot, and maybe we've seen it before, of a fairly sizable snake. And I would just like to add
- [36:26]
A
it to the checkoffs list.
- [36:27]
B
Come on, check it off the checkoffs list.
- [36:29]
A
Don't show me a yellow boa. If it's for at minimum going to be draped around somebody's shoulders. It doesn't have to commit any violent acts.
- [36:35]
B
So you want like a spears of occasion of this boa, right? You want it in a dance. I want it to choke someone during the chaos of a heist. That's what I would like to see from this boa.
- [36:46]
A
I mean, history tells us the aquarium tank gets busted open, the snake gets loosed. Just when you forget about it, it crawls up and strangles somebody to death.
- [36:55]
B
So who's dying by boa?
- [36:57]
A
Marshawn lynch, unfortunately, I think is going
- [37:00]
B
to get boa'd really tough outside of Cassie being like, he never listens. Here's one of my favorite lines in the episode when Nalima goes, you know, history, and Ru says, not particular. I want to start doing that. When people are like, do you know mathematics? I'll be like, not particularly. Not really. Uh, again, this reads this very Tarantino light. This sort of idea of light, light, light. Racketeering. Turning into legitimacy of the lotto system.
- [37:22]
A
Yeah.
- [37:22]
B
People say it funds the educational system. From Bishop. B. A stealth.
- [37:26]
A
Really, like Bishop killer in this show.
- [37:28]
B
Just, like, great stuff. And then here we get a pig busting. The pig is back busting into the club. A lot of pissing. Just, like, more pig piss than I care for on a Sunday evening personally, which is no.
- [37:42]
A
Say, what's the normal amount?
- [37:43]
B
It's zero.
- [37:44]
A
Okay. I'm glad you clarified. On this show, you have to clarify. Okay, good.
- [37:49]
B
Okay. That's my preference. Um, so then Alamo asks Rue what Laurie cares about the most.
- [37:55]
A
Yeah.
- [37:56]
B
And then we get this cut to Laurie with her parrot, Paladin, and she said, who's my perfect little baby guy? And here's my question, Ru. If you were a character on Euphoria and the camera were to rudely cut to you.
- [38:10]
A
Oh, wow.
- [38:11]
B
To reveal you caught, you know, like, babying your dog, like, what would be the most embarrassing thing that the. That the camera could catch you sort of like showing a vulnerability about. Just say it into a microphone and
- [38:23]
A
in front of some guy. I mean, not to no butt you, but I don't baby my dog that much. I like to have adult conversations with my dog, as if she was a human being who could understand completely.
- [38:33]
B
Okay. What sort of topics are part of the discourse that you have with your dog? Who. You. Who wears sweaters sometimes.
- [38:39]
A
No sweaters. Bandanas. Crucial distinction. I mean, we're just talking about current events, you know, like, you know, the state of the Iran negotiations. Absolutely. Is it open? Is it rising gas prices? You know, like, the implications for a dog, you know, like, sorry, we just can't go to the dog park. It's literally too expensive.
- [38:54]
B
Now, what does Margo think about the straight.
- [38:57]
A
You don't even want to know. Very controversial stances.
- [39:03]
B
Jules ends up at the wedding because Rue invites her.
- [39:05]
A
Right.
- [39:05]
B
That all makes sense to me. That part makes sense to me.
- [39:08]
A
Yes.
- [39:09]
B
Jules's reluctance to go makes sense to me. Saying, I haven't seen any of these people since high school makes sense to me. That should be true for more of the people on the show than it is. What I did, like, is the Pan across the bathtub. I don't know if you did. Freeze phrase, freeze frame, Mahoney. I don't know if you took.
- [39:22]
A
I did not.
- [39:23]
B
So Jules is one of those, like, incredibly great wooden sort of plank things on the bath as you do, I believe What I saw was ashtray, cigarette. Okay. Lines of Coke.
- [39:36]
A
Yep.
- [39:36]
B
Okay. Waterproof sex toy on the. On the wooden thing. And then one just like, sort of lingering in the bottom of the bathtub as well. So, like multiple toys, lines of Coke, which either they were doing together or Jules has decided she has no problem doing in front of Ru. Someone who. She is concerned whether or not is clean. And then the cigarette. I mean, this is the. The trifecta. This is. This is your living your best life.
- [40:02]
A
This is modern. This is modern life.
- [40:04]
B
Are you disappointed that we pulled the trigger on the email already? So we can't do, like, water resistant dildo, a demo?
- [40:10]
A
Like, a lot of the possibilities are really endless once you incorporate water resistance. I think there were a lot of options. A lot of options in this episode. Email W. But Maddie came first.
- [40:24]
B
Anything else you want to say about this, Jules? This like, I'm your sugar daddy now dress sexy line from Ru or anything like that.
- [40:31]
A
I just continued to want Rue to be at the wedding with the other characters. And the most generous interpretation I can give the show is that Alamo's plan, if it needed to be executed at all, and it really didn't. I don't know why we're still doing the pig thing. I don't know why the pig thing now involves a parrot thing. It's all very convoluted.
- [40:49]
B
We are escalating.
- [40:50]
A
We are escalating. I don't really need that part of the show, but if you're gonna do it, Lori does have a certain soft spot for Rue. And so the idea of bringing Rue along on this run, basically to distract Lori so you can drop a pill into Paladins. I don't know that she misses her that much.
- [41:05]
B
Should we kidnap her?
- [41:06]
A
Should we kid? They go from should we kidnap her? To should we profit share Very quickly. My understanding and grasp of capitalism is loose at best. But I don't think that the jump happens quite so efficiently in my experience,
- [41:19]
B
you know, capitalism, not particularly.
- [41:20]
A
Not definitely. Not particularly. Genuinely. Of all the frustrations in this episode,
- [41:24]
B
Rue leaving, exiting the wedding.
- [41:26]
A
Rue getting a call basically from Zendaya's agent being like, you don't have to be at this wedding anymore.
- [41:31]
B
You don't have to pose a Sam Levinson on the Red carpet and you don't have to do it.
- [41:33]
A
You don't have to do it.
- [41:34]
B
Yeah.
- [41:34]
A
Yeah. Very frustrating.
- [41:35]
B
Okay. Maddie at the wedding, was she.
- [41:38]
A
Was she even there?
- [41:40]
B
Maddie talking to Bibi and was glare and like, still takes up complete possession of Nate's mom's brain all the time.
- [41:51]
A
Uncalled for, Marcia in the speech.
- [41:54]
B
Calm down. Like, it's been five years since Maddie's been in your house. Calm the fuck down. All right. Maddie wearing scraps of green fabric. Not. Not quite much. Looking incredible.
- [42:07]
A
Jules, not much more.
- [42:08]
B
Not much. Jules is in like a sort of artistic confection, right? Yeah.
- [42:11]
A
Yeah. Maddie is more dressed to kill y.
- [42:13]
B
There was this idea, you know, a lot of fans based on. On the trailers that they, that they put together for this week's episode, etc. Were like, oh, Maddie's gonna show up at the wedding and just ruin it or do something that's really going to, you know, like, enact her revenge on Cassie. Instead. She gets, like, quite emotional.
- [42:31]
A
Yeah.
- [42:31]
B
Shares sort of like an emotional look with Cassie and then goes home in an uber kind of sad. Maddie's number one boy. And I don't know if I want to claim number one, but I'm like, right up there, girl. I just want to say to Maddie, do not be upset about these losers. Why are you upset about these absolute losers? Nate and Cassie. Who gives a shit? Their wedding is so ugly and tacky. All that money for those flowers.
- [42:54]
A
Wow.
- [42:54]
B
In the. In the, like, CNN letter flower arrangement. Tacky, ugly.
- [43:01]
A
At least it was volume. You know, if you're going to pay 50 grand for florals, you're getting arches, you're getting the installation, you're getting the lined aisle. You're getting flower petals also lining the aisle. You're getting flower girls to then put petals on the petals.
- [43:13]
B
Petals on petals. It's a hat on a ha. The only thing I did like was the four piece string quartet that is,
- [43:18]
A
like, much more tasteful than the rest of the way.
- [43:20]
B
Very classy. Everything else seemed like it sucked.
- [43:23]
A
I thought so it fit.
- [43:25]
B
I mean, shout out the Langham Hotel, which is where this was, said, I love the Langham Hotel, but they tacky it up, I think.
- [43:31]
A
I think it fit Cassie's esthetic pretty perfectly. Yeah, I. I know I just said I was most frustrated about Ru leaving this wedding. I got to up it and just rewind and erase that because I think I'm most frustrated by bringing Maddy to the wedding and not having her have literally any conversation with Cassie or Nate individually or Together. The meaningful glance is nice. I'm actually very open to the idea that she would come there and be oddly emotional, more than she expected. That's an interesting character beat. The whole point of having her at the wedding is so that these people can be in a room and have a conversation after they have not in years. And there's so much unreconciled and there's so much history between them. And she never even talks to Nate. I kind of believe from a person standpoint that you wouldn't want to run into your ex boyfriend who cheated on you at their wedding. The whole situation's very uncomfortable. But this is not real life and Maddie is not a real person. And maybe it's just me wanting. I don't even need the histrionics. I don't need a big fight. I don't need a rehash. But I need to know where these people are all these years later in relation to each other.
- [44:33]
B
You would rather that than Nate talk about an endangered flower for like five minutes of Fuck the flower, Joe.
- [44:39]
A
Fuck the flower. Say it with me. Fuck the flower.
- [44:41]
B
Did you see that when Jacob Elordi was on the Tonight show last year for Frankenstein, was asked to sort of explain Euphoria season three in a couple words, and he said the name of the flower, the white. Whatever it's called, he's like, it's all about that. And then there's just like, wait, hold on, I need to find it. There are these great Reddit posts that people wrote about what that means. White Fertility, right?
- [45:04]
A
Is the name of White Fertility. Yeah.
- [45:06]
B
Here's a Reddit post I found of people reacting at that time on the Euphoria subreddit about what the meaning of this flower could be. Quote, these flowers can represent fragility, regret, and confronting what you've done. That fits Nate perfectly. His story seems like it will focus on him dealing with the consequences of
- [45:22]
A
his actions, sort of, in a way,
- [45:25]
B
and facing parts of himself he's avoided instead of relying on control and aggression. I wouldn't hold your breath for that. But I just like. I mean, as someone who has just. Just run wild with theories myself, I just love when people overanalyze incorrectly. And this person wrote a very beautiful post about the meaning of this particular flower, when in fact it's just an impediment to building his scammy little retirement community thing that he wants to build.
- [45:48]
A
Scamming does seem exhausting, though. The amount of management that Nate has to do. Like he's managing this Neighbor who's invested with him. He's clearly managing Naz poorly. He's managing Cassie's feelings and vulnerabilities. He's just constantly having to put out fires in a way where I can see why he's dry heaving into a stall at the beginning of this episode.
- [46:06]
B
Um, pre ceremony jitters. We've got Nate, but we've got Cassie.
- [46:11]
A
Yeah.
- [46:11]
B
Definitely wearing another Sydney Sweeney corset as part of her wedding dress. And then her. Her team around her, which is her shitty neighbor Heather, who does not seem to like Cassie at all. And, like, tattles on Cassie at every single opportunity. So that's one of her bridesmaids. And then her literal sister Lexi, who, like, has to do it and that. And then there's, like, a couple other,
- [46:33]
A
like, I think there's one other.
- [46:35]
B
There's, like, a blonde girl. But, like, sad state of Cassie's, you know, friend group. Yeah. At this point. But don't worry, he picked you, Cassie, so it's fine.
- [46:44]
A
Good. Your life is justified.
- [46:45]
B
And then we have Suze. You think diarrhea is bad? Try getting into Alana Eubuck. I don't know if she's gonna be in any other episodes this season, but she made a meal out of her opportunities here. And I just, like, Suz is wearing a dynamite dress. This, like, red sequin number is, like, dancing with the James Brown impersonator.
- [47:08]
A
That's a deep dip.
- [47:09]
B
I just. I had a great. Suza's having a great time at the wedding. I'm having a great time with Suze at the wedding.
- [47:14]
A
Thank God for her. Yeah, thank God for her in all of these sequences. I mean. Yeah, the dancing, the drinking, the telling Cassie about her own doomed marriage, and the naivety of even thinking you can ever fully understand another human being as they are literally walking down the aisle. I also did love the some dreams do come true line as Cassie is getting into the stretch Hummer limo with the man who definitely hates her and also has set her up for, like, a miserable wedding night in, like, presumably few years.
- [47:40]
B
And Lexi's like, okay on Lexi for a second.
- [47:44]
A
Yeah.
- [47:45]
B
I'm not here to, like, virgin shame. You lose your virginity whenever you want
- [47:48]
A
to, but you're pro herpes.
- [47:50]
B
Did Lexi not go to college?
- [47:52]
A
She must have.
- [47:53]
B
Lexi would have cleaned up in college,
- [47:55]
A
but what kind of I could, like,
- [47:57]
B
Lexi would have cleaned up in college if you told me Maude Apatow. Lexi would have cleaned a smart girl who looks like Maud Apatow in college with all of those college Boys and. Or girls, whatever she prefers, but I think it's boys.
- [48:10]
A
I think it's boys.
- [48:11]
B
Then you're telling me she got through college a virgin? I don't think so.
- [48:14]
A
If you told me she went to an all girls, very liberal, liberal arts school, I could see that.
- [48:20]
B
Oh, just a sea of lesbians. And Lexi straight all alone.
- [48:24]
A
I don't know what happened, but it seems more elective for her. She seems, she's exercising some restraint in a way that basically no one else on this show is.
- [48:31]
B
Okay. I mean, yeah, I'm anti herpes, but I'm just saying this a lot strains credulity on you for you. And you telling me that Lexi Howard, out of the shadow of her sister in college, didn't clean up. I think she did.
- [48:44]
A
So I'm just very glad we're finally getting you on the record. Jo. You, I find you to be like a little squirrely in your opinions on certain things, but Joanna Robinson, anti pig urine, anti herpes.
- [48:54]
B
You know, I stand firm. I'm happy to talk to your dog about this if your dog would like my opinions on this. Yeah. Susie's little lecture to Cassie down the aisle, never realizing it was the last happy moment I would share with your father. I look so beautiful before I started looking like an anorexic witch.
- [49:13]
A
She's so fucking good.
- [49:14]
B
She's so good. I want to know how much Alana Eubuck is improvising on this show. I think it's a lot.
- [49:19]
A
You know, she needs a co writing credit.
- [49:21]
B
She's so good.
- [49:22]
A
Because even if she didn't write it, she is selling this in a way that basically no one else on the show is. Can I, can I list for you, Joe, some of the things I did like about the wedding because I know I've been a little harsh. Yes, the sue stuff. Absolutely.
- [49:32]
B
You love an ice sculpture.
- [49:34]
A
Well, I do love that bit of Cassie, like fretting about the proportions of the ice sculpture. I do think Jacob Elordi's performance in the encounter with Nas, specifically there is like a quivering to him physically as he's trying to hold it all together and present this like very strong composed front that I think is really, really good stuff. I do think the return of some of the BBs and the Nate's brother is a nice touch. The perspective shot at the, like, altar from Cassie's pov looking up at Nate is very like. You understand the appeal of even this psycho guy, or I guess formerly psycho guy, now sometimes psycho, but just getting his face beaten in mostly as a hunk of meat. If nothing else, you know, like, you could. You're really selling me on that moment. Also, Nate in full cult leader mode. Like, really, really whipping votes as far as the fuck the flowers go. I think that sequence is very good and very funny. And overall, like, there's good stuff here. It just all felt kind of disjointed and uncanny in terms of how it all fit together.
- [50:31]
B
Tell me about your. Seems like you had a negative reaction to the Cal and Jules conversations. Conversation.
- [50:37]
A
It felt a little bit like, can you remind me what happened with us in season one and also what are you doing here in season three?
- [50:44]
B
And why are you talking to your son? Better than being alone.
- [50:48]
A
Yeah. You know, it's not every day you one of your son's high school classmates and record it.
- [50:52]
B
Yeah.
- [50:53]
A
It's like, I don't. I don't need this. I don't think these people need this. That was one of the worst things that ever happened to either of them. So I don't know what else they have to talk about.
- [51:01]
B
I don't know that that that's true, though. I think Euphoria is a very messy show.
- [51:05]
A
I mean, that's fair.
- [51:06]
B
And I think Jules. I don't think Jules left that encounter saying, that's the worst thing that's ever happened to me.
- [51:13]
A
To clarify, I don't mean the encounter with Cal so much as the whole issue of the tape and the blackmail and everything that Nate made it about.
- [51:19]
B
And so then there's the follow up of like, okay, somehow Jules's tape did not make it in with the rest. There must have been someone looking out for me, looking over at Nate. And then the show decided to feed the I'm sorry, unhinged Nate and Jules shippers that exist out there. I. I alerted you are not aware that this was a vibrant and vocal member. A portion of the Euphoria fandom are the people who are hoping that Nate and Jules, those two crazy kids, will just work it out.
- [51:48]
A
On what grounds?
- [51:49]
B
You're asking me to defend a ship.
- [51:51]
A
I'm just trying to understand, like, what is your understanding of, like, what is it just based off of the connection they seem to have when he was impersonating this guy on the app that
- [51:59]
B
they were talking about and when he says, I. Every word I said was true. You know that there, there. I mean, the show has definitely fetted. There have been moments of if Nate allowed himself to be his true self, perhaps Jules would be the person that he would be attracted to. The echoes between Nate and Cal of like, sort of a person who is repressed inside their sexuality and has to choose the most obvious cassies of the world to have Cal say, you're a success. Just look at your wife. You know, this sort of like, picture perfect, blonde, buxom, like, whatever. And Jules is too different and interesting and compelling and queer and all these
- [52:40]
A
other things outside the lines of that.
- [52:41]
B
Nate can't allow himself to be like his dad, to be like that. But there is a part of him that wants a Jules. And I think all of that is there. And I think all of that is interesting. Nate is just such a piece of shit that I don't want him anywhere near Jules. Like, I want him, I want everyone to be their true, authentic selves. But part of his true, authentic self might be more queer than he allows himself to be, but part of it is also being an absolute psychopath. And I don't want a psychopath near Jules. So that's how I feel about that.
- [53:11]
A
Nor do I. I think the portrait you've drawn helps me understand the case a little bit better. Just because from various fandoms and ships across all of fiction, the idea of, like, this guy is a piece of shit, but he's not a piece of shit to me. Like, I could be the one who he's not a piece of shit to, obviously is very compelling. I'm not tagging you in this particular picture, but I'm just. I'm not saying. I'm just saying. But if you are one of these people, if you are one of these people who's a part of this particular ship, I am worried about you. I am very concerned about you engaging in that kind of thinking with, like, this is not a normal store brand dangerous dude. Like, he is not, like, high school level bad. He is a sociopath.
- [53:52]
B
I say there's no wrong way to be a fan. But your neighborhood fame thirsty idiot podcasters are here to tell you. And we think this is a bad one and we don't like it.
- [54:00]
A
We're here for you. And if. Look, if there's an argument to the contrary, if you have seen the light in Nate Jacobs and you would like to tell us about it, Maddie's number
- [54:08]
B
one boy at gmail dot com.
- [54:09]
A
I want to hear the case. Genuinely.
- [54:11]
B
The show's definitely feeding it. In this encounter that they have outside of the wedding here. They share a cigarette.
- [54:16]
A
They do.
- [54:17]
B
They pass a cigarette back and forth. Now, Michael B. Jordan and Michael B. Jordan pass a cigarette back and forth in sinners so this isn't 100% guarantee that they were in the same.
- [54:24]
A
You know, that that ship exists out there too. People are wanting everything.
- [54:28]
B
Smoke X stack.
- [54:29]
A
Smoke X Stack. I guarantee you it's a thing.
- [54:32]
B
I just want to promise you that. I'm pretty sure that Hunter Schaeffer and Jacob Elordi were in the same space inside of this scene as we play
- [54:40]
A
that it could have been Hunter Schaeffer and Andy Serkis. Like, we don't know.
- [54:43]
B
That's what I'm saying. But they're passing a cigarette back and forth and we get a sort of like, you love who you love. I mean, this is definitely feeding that. Do you think we get any other Jules and Nate interaction the rest of the season? Or was that the. The crumb for the Nate and Jules shippers? And go with God, that's the last you'll get.
- [55:01]
A
I'm sorry to say to those shippers. I think this is the crumb.
- [55:04]
B
I agree.
- [55:04]
A
I don't know how these two people would end up in the same room again.
- [55:08]
B
I don't know how, frankly. Nate is making it out of the season alive, honestly.
- [55:12]
A
He's not in a good space. I want to talk about that. But before we get out of all the wedding stuff to rewind to Cal for a second. I did. Maybe my biggest laugh of the episode is Cal talking about being a registered sex offender as the modern day Scarlet Letter. You literally had sex with a bunch of minors and you're like, oh, man, poor pitiful me. My guy has not read the Scarlet Letter. Even. Even I know that this is not the right comparison to make.
- [55:35]
B
Famed non reader of fiction.
- [55:36]
A
Famed. You know, I'm not a fan.
- [55:38]
B
No.
- [55:38]
A
But I'm fluent enough to know.
- [55:40]
B
Not on Nathaniel Hawthorne, actually, You know, and on the Demi Moore film.
- [55:45]
A
Not what I said. I could be convinced of the larger merits of Nathaniel Hawthorne, but I'm pretty sure he was not writing about being a sex offender.
- [55:53]
B
Yeah, I'm pretty sure that that's true.
- [55:54]
A
I'm pretty sure a little casual adultery is a little bit different than statutory rape.
- [56:00]
B
I have some questions about how they decided to use Eric Dane in this. And by they, I just mean written, directed, produced, executive produced by Sam Levinson, decided to use Eric Dane this season because Eric Dane, who has since passed away, had pretty advanced ALS at the time. And so the decision to have Calby in the show anyway, but show up everywhere drunk so that the slurring nature of his speech, you know, which was just a, you know, a function of the Als is written into the plot as Cal has, you know, only feels loved by his whiskey or whatever. I don't know. What do you think of that?
- [56:36]
A
I think if he's gonna be in the show, I mean, these are the two paths, right? Either you don't talk about it or you make it part of the plot. I don't really.
- [56:42]
B
Or you don't use him at all.
- [56:43]
A
Yes. Or you don't use him at all. Given that he's going to be on screen and they made that conscious narrative decision. Cal being pretty deep in his cups feels consistent with that character to me. So it's not like this came out of nowhere. I buy it. I'm on board for like this kind of speech he would make at a wedding like this and how he might be feeling and trying to get through the night. That part checked out to me and
- [57:04]
B
Nate telling his brother to go grab the mic and then his brother doesn't seem to do that.
- [57:07]
A
Well, I don't think he wanted him to grab. I think it was like be on the ready, you know, I'm just, I'm going to give you the collar and you do the hook.
- [57:13]
B
That's what he's wanting. I'm calling out the Nate's because when Naz is there, I would say pretty loudly threatening quite Nate. Lexi at least is somewhat paying attention a little bit, but not as much as I would, you know, because Heather hears it. Lexi is closer. Lexi is just sort of like, are you okay? Not, hey, it sounds like someone's threatening your husband with bodily harm because of his exorbitant debts or something like that.
- [57:41]
A
But I watched season two. Lexi is the watcher of the show. Isn't that the whole bit?
- [57:44]
B
She's a writer.
- [57:45]
A
She's a writer, she's an observer. She's constantly eavesdropping in on conversations.
- [57:49]
B
Like it's true.
- [57:50]
A
Not my Lexi.
- [57:51]
B
Nate's brother is right there just staring off into the middle of distance the entire time.
- [57:55]
A
That tracks. That man has like a little dog jumping over a fence in his head just on root.
- [58:03]
B
Before we leave the wedding, I just need to shout out that Jules ordered my drink, which is a tequila soda. And that is just, you know, a very classy drink for a very classy lady. I just want to say.
- [58:13]
A
Can't disagree. Do you have any particular accoutrement? Are you doing like a little lime squeeze in that or just straight tequila soda?
- [58:20]
B
Tequila soda, rocks, limes. Yeah.
- [58:22]
A
Can't go wrong. Especially at a wedding. Open bar. Oh yeah, that's the Time. That's the place.
- [58:25]
B
Absolutely. Anything else you want to say about the flower? About Fred and Heather, about anything else?
- [58:31]
A
Just that a full wedding make out. I would expect nothing less from Cassie and Nate. This I do think they really did nails.
- [58:39]
B
No, no, no.
- [58:40]
A
They nailed a lot of the particulars of what it feels like these two people might do at their wedding.
- [58:44]
B
The last tacky detail is the white stretch hummer that they take back to their house where he says she makes him want to be a better man, a better husband one day a father. And then he calls her Cassie Jacobs. If this is his, like, I agree, like, if they had leaned even further into Nate Jacobs, cult leader, as you call out. That flower scene is really good. Just the way in which. And we talked about this in season one and two, the sort of like, psychological games that he can play with people, the emotional and literal blackmailing and all that sort of stuff like that. And so like, like, Nate is a more successful weaver of stories, but they're opting instead to make him look bumbling and idiotic more often than not, it seems like. Or nicer more often than not than he was. But like him talking Cassie down in the stretch hummer with one day a father and then calling her Cassie Jacobs, I thought was like, pretty diabolical and good.
- [59:38]
A
So, you know, agreed on that. I do think as far as a lot of his interactions at the wedding, that's where you could see a little bit of the, like, compulsive liar Nate Jacobs popping through. And not just the manipulations, but just like the way he puts out those fires, the way he's trying to constantly deflect and buy himself time. I agree that I don't even read him as necessarily more bumbling this season, just fundamentally nicer and kinder.
- [60:01]
B
And the bumbling, I just mean in like, the whole NAS situation, like, I don't think he would just ignore that. I don't think he would get that far into debt to someone that dangerous. I think that's probably true. This'll be fine.
- [60:11]
A
Well, you know, just to make the devil's advocate argument, what if there is something to say in this show about like, a person who grew up with a, like, all of my mistakes get wiped away kind of privilege than Nate Jacobs does and just thinking that, like, I'm just gonna keep saying I'm gonna bring him the hundred grand next week and I'm gonna buy myself time and it's gonna be fine because I am starting quarterback Nate Jacobs, for whom all. All is good effectively is There a part of just like that obliviousness to consequence that could make sense.
- [60:41]
B
And it's one thing to sort of manipulate high school girls and another thing to get into. Yes, this with. With Nassim here. That's good. It's a great question. Anything else you want to say about the wedding night?
- [60:51]
A
I mean, many things. I think. For one, I think we have confirmation that the only reason there is yellow carpet in this house is to be blood splattered. Right. It's just for the contrast. Right. Is there any other design choice that would lead to a person to do such a thing?
- [61:04]
B
Tackiness? I don't know.
- [61:05]
A
Maybe. So maybe it is that simple.
- [61:07]
B
You can have a yellow carpet and it'd be nice. I would just say not that carpet
- [61:11]
A
and not in that house and not comprehensively yellow. It's like yellow wall and yellow carpet. I mean, the very like monochrome thing I can be sold on in certain contexts, but maybe not that particular shade.
- [61:21]
B
Anything else you want to say about it other than your interior design?
- [61:25]
A
No, that's what people come here for, Joe. I mean, rest in peace to Nate's toe.
- [61:29]
B
There had been some chatter online about is Jacob Elordi only in three episodes this season. Like, is. Does Nate die at the beginning of the season? I don't think you cut off his toe just for him to die. So I think he's. I mean, obviously he's not dead by the end of the episode, but, like, I don't think Nate's going anywhere. I don't know how much Jacob Elordi is in the rest. Like, I can. I could see the beginning of the season being kind of Nate heavy and then a handoff, like a little lighter later on. But, like, I don't. There have been a lot of theories that he was only in the first three episodes. I don't think that's the case at all.
- [61:59]
A
Clearly not. I mean, the investment in his and Cassie's story has been so significant that even if you do kind of shift balance, you're gonna have to show what happens to them.
- [62:07]
B
Well, I have some, you know, literally we have not watched beyond episode three. We do not know what's coming. I have watched the like this season on trailer and there is a lot of like Maddie Cassie content. And so I'm curious if. If this idea of some women inherit fortunes, others inherit debt. If Cassie is on the hook for Nate's debt, if Maddie and Cassie just get to generating those bucks, you think
- [62:35]
A
the Onlyfans is back open for business?
- [62:37]
B
Oh, I definitely do.
- [62:38]
A
You think baby play is in season?
- [62:42]
B
I think we have not seen the last of incredible getups on Sydney Sweeney this season.
- [62:46]
A
I mean, that was always going to be the case, regardless of it's any professional capacity for her or not. But. But overall, I mean, this toe included, I've already had my fill of foot stuff. I think we're okay if we just want to. If we just want to skirt. I know we're getting into nylons, and
- [63:01]
B
this is the Tarantino light season, though. We can't. We can't. No foot left behind.
- [63:05]
A
There are just a lot of fetishes if you want to indulge them out there. And so maybe let's. Let's diversify.
- [63:10]
B
Okay. So every week, Rob comes down on another fetish.
- [63:13]
A
I'm not planning to, but that's just what the show's going to do.
- [63:15]
B
Okay, great. Before we get to all of that, we have Rue talking on the phone to Fez. And so this is another in the vein of me asking about the use of Cal this season. We had an opportunity here. So, like, Angus Cloud passed away. Fez cannot be physically in this season. So they made a decision not to kill that character off screen, but to put him away in jail so that we cannot physically visit him. Yeah, but that. To take it a step farther and have Rue have a phone conversation with him where we don't hear the other side, obviously. But, like, I found this kind of ghoulish. How did you feel about it?
- [63:47]
A
I had ghoulish written down that it didn't quite get that level for me. Like, if it had stayed on speakerphone and were, like, Paul Walker style, like, reconstructing sentences. If it was either previous footage reused or AI Driven, I think I would feel that way. This just felt unnecessary. It's like, why do we need this? We already had the mention to kind of COVID our basis of, like, what Fez is up to. He's not going to be in the story. He's not.
- [64:12]
B
Heather Collins is in Portland and Fez is in prison.
- [64:15]
A
Important things happen off screen. And in this case, you can at least understand why I did not need this conversation. I think it was just to give Rue one more thing to do on her way to the errand she doesn't need to be on. It's just kind of. It's kind of a bummer for a bunch of different reasons. But I just think it's pretty unnecessary from a narrative standpoint.
- [64:34]
B
In Laurie's camp, we're setting up this, you know, with Faye as this Object that her foot soldiers are sort of arguing over.
- [64:45]
A
Yes, but here's the most Nazi one, Nazi two. Do we know the other guy is a Nazi or not? I mean, let's assume. Birds of a feather.
- [64:52]
B
Yeah, let's assume. Here's the most important safe watch 2026. Faye is allowed in the basement unsupervised. Just something to know, something to put away. She has basement privileges. Just thought that was interesting.
- [65:10]
A
The Thomas Crown affair outcome for this season is in play.
- [65:14]
B
Joe with the snake, I hope. Lori says the grass is always greener by the septic tank, which I think was a great line. I want to shout that out. And then Rue is on the job. Bishop poisons the bird. Bishop asked Laurie if Laurie named the parrot after Richard Boone. And she says she didn't know. Quote blacks, like Western. And then we get the whole cowboys versus Indians. Which one are you? And Bishop says he's a motherfucking cowboy. Again, I think this performance is better than the writing, but Bishop is really working for me as a character.
- [65:43]
A
I like Bishop. I did like that line. I wouldn't say that I needed the dramatic money toss onto the table, finger guns routine.
- [65:52]
B
I kind of liked it.
- [65:53]
A
I don't dislike it. I think it gets at overall with this whole sequence. Like, there is an attempt at intensity in this whole, like, standoff. What are we doing here? What is this run all about? Kind of dynamic in the room and also of style. With shots like that and the construction of those scenes, I'm just kind of like, all right, again, something about the way we got here felt so contrived that putting all these people into an intense situation just didn't really, like, deliver for me necessarily.
- [66:20]
B
I don't. There's some. So Daryl Britt Gibson, who's playing Bishop, who I think I know best from. You're the worst. But has been. And a million things, including the Wire or Californication, et cetera, et cetera, Barry, et cetera. Like, just a great. A great face, a great energy. I find him just, like, compulsively watchable. And so I think if it were, like, with love and respect, Marshawn lynch in this sequence, it would have fallen really flat for me. But there's something so off kilter about him, definitely. And this character in this performance that I. I was kind of bought all into it also, he's poisoning a bird and then, like, covering it with all of this other nonsense in order to get away with the poisoning.
- [67:02]
A
And you have been wandering around these office halls yelling, death to all Birds.
- [67:05]
B
When will we kill?
- [67:08]
A
I do think the idea of.
- [67:10]
B
Do you know the. Okay, please, quick story about.
- [67:12]
A
Wow. Okay.
- [67:13]
B
Death to birds.
- [67:13]
A
Let's hear it.
- [67:14]
B
I've never killed a bird, but I'm
- [67:16]
A
glad you also clarified that. Go on in.
- [67:17]
B
A friend of mine. A friend of mine was a teacher in one of their classroom, Pennsylvania were these doves. And occasionally she would have to take the doves home, as you do with a classroom pet. And it turns out that when you cover the bird cage at night, they sort of think the world is over. There's something about bird brains where they just get addled and confused easily by a darkened space.
- [67:41]
A
Can I ask you a question? Does this not happen to you?
- [67:43]
B
Oh, when the lights go on,
- [67:47]
A
that's just where I'm living. But maybe me and the doves.
- [67:51]
B
And so her husband, every night, when he threw the COVID of the cage, he just went, death to doves. And it made me laugh every single time.
- [68:00]
A
It's a fantastic bit. Those poor doves.
- [68:03]
B
Death to doves. I think about it all the time. The doves are fine. Well, I mean, I'm sure they died eventually, but they were not because of that.
- [68:09]
A
The world object permanence. Just having your whole world blink out of existence. Extremely rough.
- [68:14]
B
And then we get the DEA showing up on the scene. Rue's still listening to the Bible, so still committed to this bit. In the many critiques that people had about euphoria this season, one thing that we noted in episode one certainly was they were like, this is so Breaking Bad. The opening felt very Breaking Bad to us. I saw an article that was essentially the same gist, but the headline they used was, rue is now inside of a Netflix crime show. And I would just wanna say, excuse you, it was an AMC crime show before it was on Netflix. Breaking Bad is amc. That's all. I just wanted to.
- [68:48]
A
Narco's coded.
- [68:49]
B
No, no, no, no. This is Breaking Bad. But this, it did feel very like. I. I always think about, like, FX in this era, and I bring it up all the time, but like, Sons of. This feels like very much like a Sons of Anarchy turn of the plot or something like that. Like where someone who's been involved in crime, all of a sudden, here comes the dea, and this is where the story is turned now.
- [69:08]
A
So, yeah, especially like a somewhat unwitting person who does have a conscience who isn't of this world.
- [69:13]
B
Happened to Pinkman quite easily.
- [69:15]
A
I mean, you know, easy to flip.
- [69:16]
B
Yeah. Any. Anything else you want to say?
- [69:19]
A
I. I just don't Know any other reason other than being flipped why Rue would be being pulled over in this capacity unless, like, Laurie's place was already being staked out. But it doesn't make sense to me that Laurie or anyone in her gang would call anyone on Rue, or that anyone in Alamo's game would turn her in.
- [69:35]
B
At first I thought it was Laurie, you know, even though you saw the red and blue lights, at first I thought, you know, when they were talking about kidnapping Rue.
- [69:42]
A
Yes.
- [69:43]
B
I was like, you know, is this a fake out and she's about to be kidnapped? But now I don't think it's that. I think it is genuinely the dea.
- [69:49]
A
I think probably so.
- [69:50]
B
Okay, we were mixed pause on the first two episode. Do you think you're, like, mixed negative on this episode?
- [69:56]
A
No, I wouldn't go that far.
- [69:57]
B
Yeah.
- [69:58]
A
Some of it's just, like, I had such high hopes for the moments in which they.
- [70:01]
B
The Nate and Cassie wedding.
- [70:02]
A
I mean, the Nate and Cassie wedding, Maddie's presence there, what it was gonna feel like to get all these people in the same room. And it was just a little dispiriting to find out that that many people involved are just not gonna let that happen. For perfectly understandable reasons. But it's just, like, not what Euphoria is gonna be. And so I'm just, like, missing. I'm missing the magic of, like, all of these performers have such unique and sometimes conflicting energies. And you don't get that, like, very particular Euphoria blend of having, like, three of them having one conversation or a gaggle of girls in the bathroom, like, all bouncing off each other. And I would love to get some of that back, but I just don't think it's what Euphoria is gonna be.
- [70:37]
B
I do. Yeah. I'm thinking about the plot lines going forward, and if, like, Cassie and Maddie are sort of in the same plot line, does. Does that intersect with anyone else? How does Jules story possibly intersect with anyone else? How does, like, you know, we got a little bit of a bait and switch with Sharon Stone. We haven't seen Sharon Stone in, like, two seasons, but, like, Lexi's whole, you know, soap opera, how does that intersect? And then the Rue crime story, like, are these separate stories never the twain chill meet, or are they all gonna blend together somehow? I'll be interested if I. I think
- [71:07]
A
they're all gonna be a very exciting crossover episode of LA Knights.
- [71:11]
B
Tune in.
- [71:13]
A
Can't wait. I do have one more wedding related question for you, Joe. Get Low plays at Cassian Nate's wedding millennial anthem. It is played at. I'm not joking. Every single millennial wedding I've ever been to.
- [71:24]
B
Really?
- [71:24]
A
Completely. Is Gen Z rocking with it like that? Do you think this is a Cassian Nate era song or. I'm granted songs of all requested. I mean, maybe songs of all times play at a bunch of at weddings of all styles, so it's not like it has to be so beholden.
- [71:39]
B
But. But you're like, is this the new Electric Slide or not? Is this the Cupid Shuffle or not?
- [71:43]
A
Frankly, I would be honored if this is the contribution from our generation, is that we are getting Low. I. I think it's a great. It's a great signifier of everything we're about.
- [71:52]
B
If you're Gen Z and you want to email us maddie's number1boymail.com and let us know if you would play Get Low at your wedding, we would love like to know, please, anything else you want to say? One more message for the Jewels and Nate shippers out there.
- [72:03]
A
I think I've done my bit.
- [72:04]
B
Okay. You'll be okay. Let it go. All right. We will be back with more euphoria. That's all we're on right now, actually, is just euphoria for the foreseeable. We'll see if anything else crops up,
- [72:15]
A
but if you're late coming around to Beef. We've done now three episodes covering the entire season of Beef, which is a binge drop on Netflix, so you can go check those out as well.
- [72:24]
B
Sounds great. Great. Thanks to everyone who worked on this episode. That would be Kai Grady, Dev Ronaldo, Jacob Cornette, the whole crew here at Sycamore. And we'll see you soon. Bye.