‘Euphoria’ Season 3, Episode 5: Toe to Toe

Summary

The Prestige TV Podcast: ‘Euphoria’ Season 3, Episode 5, "Toe to Toe"

Hosts: Joanna Robinson, Rob Mahoney
Date: May 11, 2026
Episode Focus: An in-depth, immediate reactions discussion to ‘Euphoria’ Season 3, Episode 5, “Toe to Toe” (sometimes referred to as "This Little Piggy"), with a special emphasis on character arcs, pop culture references, and thematic motifs.

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Episode Overview

Joanna Robinson and Rob Mahoney dive into “Toe to Toe,” the fifth episode of Euphoria Season 3, dissecting its character-focused storytelling—especially the spotlight on Cassie and Maddy—as well as the episode’s bold stylistic swings, cultural homage, and ongoing exploration of fame, agency, and power dynamics. The conversation touches on standout moments, Euphoria’s shifting narrative perspectives, and meta-commentary on both the show’s production and pop culture history.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Immediate Reactions and Main Impressions

• Rob: “I really like this episode… it really felt like a happy Mother’s Day to Seuss, who I can only imagine is thriving, seeing Cassie's content.” [01:40]
• The hosts applaud the episode’s Cassie-centric storytelling, crediting Sydney Sweeney’s performance and recognizing the episode’s playful excess and meta-references.
• Joanna notes a split in her reaction: “I feel very mixed on the Cassie stuff… This is a stellar Maddy episode, and I’m really happy for Alexa Demie.” [05:07]

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2. Pop Culture, Insider Nods, and Listener Mailbag

Nepo Babies, Casting, and Callbacks

• Hosts update their “Nepo baby” roll call:
  • Alexa Demie is the step-granddaughter of Beach Boy Dennis Wilson. "That one is pretty crazy." (Rob, 06:40)
  • Sam Levinson is Hollywood royalty—son of Barry Levinson.
• Listener letters highlight Kadeem Hardison’s cameo (and his classic glasses flip, a recurring bit on several shows).
• Gen Z audience engagement: Listeners educate hosts about Zendaya’s previous work and Love Island USA’s influence on cast and storyline.

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3. Cassie’s Storyline: Humiliation, Fetish, and Feminist Subversion [09:20–17:40]

• The episode opens with an explicit Cassie montage: sex work content, dildos, and a “humiliation ritual.”
  • Rob brands it “Euphoria having its toes and sucking them too.” [09:28]
  • Joanna laments the absence of Kat’s perspective: “I was just missing the profundity of that moment for Kat… discovering her power and sexuality.” [11:01]
• Cassie’s tour of podcasts pokes fun at manosphere discourse and memeable talking points ("men are treated as second-class citizens in America"—Joanna, [12:21]).
• Guest appearance by Trisha Paytas as herself, reacting incredulously to Cassie’s shtick: “Huh. I thought that was perfect. Cassie.” (Joanna, [12:54])

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4. The Attack of the 50 Foot Woman Sequence [13:06–16:10]

• Surreal homage to "Attack of the 50 Foot Woman" and kaiju movies, juxtaposed with Cassie's feelings of largeness/emptiness.
• Rob: “This sort of extended homage that is at one point just ridiculous and funny… and yet it is also a giant Cassie literally praying to the Hollywood sign.” [13:06]
• Joanna: “To put [Attack of the 50 Foot Woman] with Cassie in her ‘I love men’ T-shirt is an interesting juxtaposition.” [15:30]
• Discussion of the pop-cultural resonance and feminist subtext behind the homage (Beyoncé, Lana Del Rey, and a planned Margot Robbie adaptation get referenced).

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5. OnlyFans, Hype Houses, and Contracts [16:58–20:46]

• The economics of Cassie’s content-creating:
  • “Subscription fees, obviously. She's on OnlyFans… 50,000 subscribers? …On top of that, the ASMR and panties in the mail and fart jars…” (Rob, [17:11–17:49])
• Concerns about Cassie’s vulnerability regarding influencer contracts—potential parallels to real-life influencer “cult” stories.
  • “Should we be worried about this contract that Cassie signed for Maddie, given especially that Maddie is now getting into business with Alamo? Absolutely.” (Joanna, [20:46])

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6. Maddy’s Ascendance, Religious Motifs, and the Equanimity Theme [41:03–43:44]

• Maddie shines as a boss and a philosopher: “He’s not a breadwinner, he’s a bread loser.” (Maddy, [41:08])
• Newfound depth in Maddie’s character, with repeated religious and self-help allusions—particularly around "equanimity":
  • Quote: “Maybe the quantity is keeping you from the quality. That’s real… that’s a very real concept.” (Rob, [41:12])
  • Joanna expands on “equanimity” as a theme in both spirituality and addiction recovery, especially relevant to Rue’s journey.
• Maddie’s agency: the hosts agree, “Maddie doesn’t really get dragged anywhere” (Joanna, [43:59]), even as she’s entering dangerous new territory with Alamo.

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7. Hollywood and the Sex Industry: Parallels, Symbolism, and Visual Choices

• The episode draws explicit parallels between Hollywood and the sex industry;
  • Cassie’s small acting break vs. being dragged deeper into the Silver Slipper world: “Here’s the fork in the road… what choice does she make? Or does she have a choice because she signed that contract?” (Joanna, [48:00])
• Euphoria further blurs lines between sex work, fame, and exploitation with visual allusions to classic cinema and actual Hollywood tragedies (Rita Hayworth, Pretty Woman).

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8. Smaller Character Arcs: Jules, Rue, Nate, and the “Stranded”

Jules:

• Her emotionally charged but isolated story is highlighted, particularly in her scene with Rue about passion and connection.
  • Joanna on Jules/Ellis: “Hunter Schafer’s face… was extremely heartbreaking.” [34:42] Nate:
• Reduced to a "bread loser," now dependent on Cassie’s sex work, the once-powerful jock is now portrayed as “a real loser” and “a shithead” (Rob, [52:27]). Kitty & Bishop:
• Bishop’s “curse monologue” stands out, and both new characters are reportedly being expanded mid-season due to standout performances.

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9. Shakespeare in Euphoria [38:36–40:25]

• Cassie delivers a surprising Shakespearean audition from Antony and Cleopatra.
  • “I think she was reasonably good at it… better than you’d expect Cassie to be.” (Rob, [40:11])
  • Host speculation: did they pick this monologue just so Sydney Sweeney could say “lamey stark naked and let the water flies blow me into a whoring”? (Joanna, [39:32])

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Notable & Memorable Quotes (with Timestamps)

• Rob: “Euphoria having its toes and sucking them too.” [09:28]
• Joanna: “What do you think the collective noun for dildos should be? I wrote down ‘plethora of dildos’… There’s a Reddit thread about this!” [10:16]
• Rob: “Maddie, I may not always love you, but as long as there are stars above you, et cetera, et cetera.” [06:49]
• Joanna: “To put [Attack of the 50 Foot Woman] with Cassie in her I love men T-shirt is just an interesting juxtaposition.” [15:30]
• Maddy (via Joanna): “He’s not a breadwinner, he’s a bread loser.” [41:08]
• Rob: “Nate, a bread loser. A Nate who peaked in high school.” [52:34]
• Joanna (on Maddie/Cassie): “The biggest laugh of the episode… ‘You’re my best friend.’ ‘Really?’” [49:20]
• Joanna: "Equanimity is particularly valuable in addiction recovery. It helps individuals navigate the ups and downs of the healing process..." [41:25]

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Pop Culture & Behind-the-Scenes Highlights

• BTS notes: Attack of the 50 Foot Woman sequence took a year to build miniatures.
• Alamo’s house modeled after Mike Tyson’s abandoned Ohio mansion.
• Show’s “objective” vs. “subjective” storytelling this season: “This season is meant to be much more objective [than Rue-centric subjective narration of prior seasons]” (Joanna, [30:48])
• The episode’s contracts and exploitation thematics mirrored in real-life Hollywood stories (e.g., Rita Hayworth).

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Timestamps for Major Segments

• [01:18] – Episode and panel intro, initial thoughts
• [06:15] – Listener Mailbag, Nepo babies, casting trivia
• [09:20] – Cassie humiliation montage (fetishes, OnlyFans, humor)
• [13:06] – Attack of the 50 Foot Woman sequence
• [16:58] – OnlyFans, business models, influencer houses and contracts
• [22:39] – Rue, Kitty, and film references (Gilda, Rita Hayworth)
• [27:18] – Bishop & Kitty: Expansion and Fargo-style monologues
• [41:03] – Maddie, philosophy, and religious/equanimity themes
• [43:59] – Maddie, agency, and the Silver Slipper
• [48:00] – Hollywood, agency, Cassie vs. Maddy, career crossroads
• [52:22] – Nate’s downfall, bread loser moment
• [54:14] – Finale preview: hopeful but not for all

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Final Thoughts & Predictions

• Finale just turned in: 93 minutes, “hopeful ending, but not for everyone.” [54:22-54:43]
• Who gets a hopeful ending? “Kitty, obviously… Lexi, I hope, but [she might] still [be] stuck in the purgatory that is her life in which she works really hard for something and her sister swoops in with a low-cut shirt and gets a better version of it.” (Rob, [55:09])
• Persistent unease for Maddy’s fate as she enters Alamo’s world.
• Robust anticipation for next week, more Euphoria discourse and classic teen TV retrospectives teased.

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Memorable Moments

• The running gag about the “collective noun” for dildos.
• Cassie’s accidental feminist kaiju narrative.
• Maddy’s “bread loser” burn.
• The Shakespearean monologue—“lamey stark naked and let the water flies blow me into a whoring.”
• Maddie and Cassie’s “best friend? Really?” exchange.
• Detailed speculation about character futures and finale tonal direction.

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Useful for New and Returning Listeners

This summary encapsulates the episode’s analysis, lively banter, meta-pop culture observations, and deep dive into Euphoria’s evolving themes—capturing the show’s unique blend of humor, scholarship, and reverence for television’s artistic craft.

Transcript

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[Joanna Robinson]

Hello. Welcome back to the Prestige TV podcast feed. I'm Joanna Robinson.

[Rob Mahoney]

I'm Rob Mahoney.

[Joanna Robinson]

It's Mother's Day Sunday.

[Rob Mahoney]

Happy Mother's Day, Rob.

[Joanna Robinson]

Happy Mother's Day, Rob. In a nearly empty, rather spooky office. Here we are to cover our sort of very instant reactions to Euphoria Episode five, Having a real normal one at work once again here on a Sunday. Rob, how are you feeling? Absolutely.

[Rob Mahoney]

I'm feeling great. Spoiler alert. I really like this episode and I guess in the spirit of Happy Mother's Day, I mean, it really felt like a happy Mother's Day to Seuss, who I can only imagine is thriving, seeing Cassie's content.

[Joanna Robinson]

Brimming with pride, I'm sure.

[Rob Mahoney]

How could you not?

[Joanna Robinson]

I'm sure. Wow. Okay. I didn't know that you really. That's so funny. Sat and watched the episode with you. We didn't talk about it. I didn't know that you really liked the episode.

[Rob Mahoney]

I mean, our watching style is a lot of muffled, like, I mean, we were basically magic's like recollection of the hehe haha ing that was us in a dark room watching this episode of Euphoria. So again, very normal stuff happening.

[Joanna Robinson]

Very normal stuff here at work. All right. Season three, Episode five, this Little Piggy. This is a spoiler alert for that. Before we get into our Euphoria cover today, we just wanted to give a quick shout out to the Austin Television Festival. They have an incredible lineup this year and we Are we were hoping to go, but we're like really jealous. We don't. We can't go.

[Rob Mahoney]

Loathe to miss it, but I just

[Joanna Robinson]

want to shout out a few highlights. House of the Dragon Season 3, they're doing like a big inside the Battle of the Gullet opening night thing for House of the Dragon. Incredible. The other Bennett sister, which is like a current TV obsession of mine. They're. They're doing a panel four and then they're doing a sweet Vicious reunion. Sweet Vicious was a show when we first covered the Pit. I was like, that's where I first saw Taylor Dearden. So like Taylor Dearden of the Pit fam about. Yeah, exactly. And they're doing a reunion of this great cancel to cancel too soon. MTV show. Ramoni. What's the other big thing happening there that we're really bummed to miss?

[Rob Mahoney]

Possibly a giant anniversary collection of talent and celebration of Friday Night Lights. One of our favorite shows.

[Joanna Robinson]

Connie Britton, Kyle Chandler in the flesh. Jesse Plemon, Scott Porter, Amy Teagarden, Adrian Pollack. Like the whole gang is going to be there in Austin.

[Rob Mahoney]

But not us.

[Joanna Robinson]

But not us. So it's May 28th through the 31st. You can still get tickets and badges and all that good [e-mail] attend. We wish we were going, but we're not. But a lot of like great people who cover television are going and I've been many years. This festival, it's really incredible because it's very small and intimate. You get to sort of meet a bunch of people who write about television that you love. You get, you can. And if you're interested in getting into television, it's one of the best places you can go. So no free ads except for our pals at the Austin Television Festival, which is a great place.

[Rob Mahoney]

Well, let me make you a pitch, Joe. In the spirit of atx.

[Joanna Robinson]

Sure.

[Rob Mahoney]

And their tentpole attraction being Friday Night Lights.

[Joanna Robinson]

Correct.

[Rob Mahoney]

You and I have discussed possibly, you know, euphoria has inspired us to look backwards at some other high school oriented or high school originated shows. I think we simply must podcast about one of the greats of all time, Friday Night Lights in the near future.

[Joanna Robinson]

Wait, are you telling me Texas forever?

[Rob Mahoney]

I mean, you already know that.

[Joanna Robinson]

Texas forever on this podcast, now more than ever. Okay. Yeah. We are planning to do check in with a couple classic teen TV shows that like euphoria, have generated a crop of talent. You know, like your Jesse Plemons is. We're also maybe look, can I say. Yeah, Skins UK probably The closest Euphoria

[Rob Mahoney]

analog, I would think.

[Joanna Robinson]

Absolutely. And an amazing crop of talent came out of that show. So we are planning to touch on those shows this month on the Prestige TV feed. But today, it's a Euphoria day. Okay, overall, all impressions. You like, you really liked this episode?

[Rob Mahoney]

I thought it was a really good Cassie episode and basically, like a whole entire really good backdoor pilot. Maddie subplot.

[Joanna Robinson]

I. I was actually, as I was typing in my notes, you and I, like, split up and typed up our notes, and I was like, I wonder if Maddy's number one boy enjoyed this. This is a great Maddy episode.

[Rob Mahoney]

What do you think? I think.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah. Well, I mean, like, I think the Cassie stuff, I feel very mixed on the Cassie stuff, and I feel like a lot of other characters are not being wholly served, you know, like, who was less served by this episode? Nate, Jules, or Lexi? I don't know. It's a toss up. But, Matt, this is a stellar Maddie episode, and I'm really happy for Alexa Demi. So I told you before we watched this episode, I got some hints about, like, what was happening in this episode, and it felt like Mad Libs. And it was attack of the 50 foot woman. So I did watch that movie earlier today. I don't think I needed to, but I. I did.

[Rob Mahoney]

We have the gist, regardless.

[Joanna Robinson]

Attack of 50 foot woman, I watched the original 1958 version, which is only like an hour long, and it's kind of a bop, so I recommend it. And then I knew there was going to be a Shakespearean monologue. I did not know it was going to be Antony and Cleopatra. We could talk about that. And equanimity as, like, a buzzword for this episode.

[Rob Mahoney]

Oh, that was in the word cloud, too.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah. So we got it all. That's perhaps when she said equanimity, and I was like, mmm. You might have heard me say, I

[Rob Mahoney]

thought you were fond of the concept. I thought you had found your own inner pie.

[Joanna Robinson]

Let's do quick mailbag.

[Rob Mahoney]

Okay.

[Joanna Robinson]

Shall we? Okay, so we. We did a little Nepo baby roll call. And I've got an update from our roll call. Last week, one of our listeners in the comments wrote something that I thought was so wild it could not be true. And I looked it up, and it is true.

[Rob Mahoney]

Okay.

[Joanna Robinson]

Which is that your girl Alexa Demi is the step granddaughter. Now we're getting in the weeds for a step grand. No, but a step granddaughter.

[Rob Mahoney]

All right. Like Rockefeller. Like, who is the guy?

[Joanna Robinson]

Dennis Wilson, one of the original Beach Boys.

[Rob Mahoney]

That one is Pretty crazy.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah. So Alexa Demi. I mean, I'm not saying Alexa Demi Nepo Baby, but related to the Beach Boys. Ish. In a way. So that's amazing.

[Rob Mahoney]

I mean, Maddie, I may not always love you, but as long as there are stars above you, et cetera, et cetera.

[Joanna Robinson]

Genuinely, I was like, which Beach Boys lyric is Rob going to quote to me when I said this?

[Rob Mahoney]

There's so many fucking bangers to pull from.

[Joanna Robinson]

It's true. I love the Beach Boys. And then we didn't mention. We didn't say it explicitly on the pod, but shout out our social media team who put it in the caption for the breakout. But of course, Sam Levinson himself comes from Hollywood royalty. Barry Levinson, his father directed Rain man, among a ton of other things.

[Rob Mahoney]

You may have heard of it.

[Joanna Robinson]

You know, it's a real, like for us Bias Nepo Baby production here. All right, and then we got an email. Emails from a couple people. I had mentioned that Kadeem, Kadeem Hardison, who plays the Alamo employee who got gut shot, but I guess is alive. He's in the hospital, apparently. Okay. Um, I mentioned that when he flipped his glasses, I felt like that was a reference to his iconic character on A Different World. What I didn't know because I'm too old is that he played Zendaya's dad on a Disney Channel show, Casey Undercover, and he did the same move on that show. So apparently it's.

[Rob Mahoney]

That's just his signature move.

[Joanna Robinson]

It's just like, in his contract that he has to do. But I did not know that he played Zendaya's dad in, like, one of her early projects. So, like, I hope this is. She's like, get my TV done in euphoria. It'll be really normal.

[Rob Mahoney]

Like, you know, it is a generational blind spot for us, though. Yeah. Because, yeah, the Gen Z people who emailed us were many. Yes, we're enthusiastic.

[Joanna Robinson]

Thanks for listening, Gen Z.

[Rob Mahoney]

Thanks for listening. I'm glad you have this particular touchstone. I'm also glad to know that that particular move transcends role. It's like an Isaiah Whitlock Jr. Like, she, like, it just can follow you anywhere you go.

[Joanna Robinson]

Just the move. And then Jaz wrote in to talk to us about Love island usa, which we, you know, we addressed last week that Jules was watching Love island usa. What I did not know is that Zendaya and Hunter Schaefer in real life are huge Love Island USA fans. Jazz, let us know. Apparently, recently, when Zendaya was on the Jennifer Hudson show to promote the drama. They, like, got a cameo from one of the, like, Love island contestants, and Zendaya lost her mind about it. That's how much of a Love Islander she is. But apparently Love Island USA is just. I mean, I knew Love island was a thing, but I guess Love Island USA the last couple seasons has just, like, really exploded in, I think in Gen Z, so. In Gen Z. That's a weird way to put it, but there you go. So that's the Love Island. Welcome to Sunday Night Euphoria. Anything else you want to mention that we got emails about or anything like that?

[Rob Mahoney]

No, I think we can keep it moving. What do you want to start with from this week?

[Joanna Robinson]

Great question. Um, I'll start with Cassie. Let's start with the Sydney Sweeney re humiliation ritual, which continues apace.

[Rob Mahoney]

It really does. I mean, look, this whole opening montage is Euphoria having its toes and sucking them too.

[Joanna Robinson]

I was really. I was really feeling for you as you. As you. As you continue to tally up your the kink list this season. You know, you and I both had a.

[Rob Mahoney]

It was quite something.

[Joanna Robinson]

It was. It was toe to toe because, like, we. We had a real issue with the toe sucking. And then when Nate's toe got re. Ripped off, that was a tough one for us. That was really tough.

[Rob Mahoney]

Hard to watch yet again. But yeah, I thought this opening montage is like. I mean, this euphoria's not a show that blanches at any of its fetish content, but it is a show that can do all this and indulge in it and comment on that content in a way that I do quite enjoy. And dare I say, for like a dildo oriented montage, I find to be quite artfully done.

[Joanna Robinson]

This is a question that I had for you, which is, what do you think the collective noun for dildos should be? I wrote down plethora of dildos. I did. Look it up. There is a Reddit thread about this.

[Rob Mahoney]

Really?

[Joanna Robinson]

I did ruin my own search history by typing in. What is the collective noun for dildos? Happy Mother's Day. Do you think it's what our moms dreamed we would be doing with our careers?

[Rob Mahoney]

God, I hope not.

[Joanna Robinson]

Gaggle of dildos is what? Yeah, gaggle.

[Rob Mahoney]

For some reason, the first word that came to mind for me was smattering.

[Joanna Robinson]

A smattering. I think it was too many dildos to be a mere smattering.

[Rob Mahoney]

That's true.

[Joanna Robinson]

You know, they were, like, heaped on the counter, so.

[Rob Mahoney]

Well, they weren't just on the Counter. They were on the dish rack.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah, they were everywhere. I will say this, especially during the very specific part of this section when we get like all the different things that Cassie's doing for her clientele, it made me miss Kat, like the humiliation aspect. I was thinking a lot about Kat. The way that this storyline was done for Kat in season one is among like some of my favorite stuff that that euphoria did. So it just like. And that felt this, this to your point, you're watching, you're like, oh my God. Euphoria. There's nothing like it, right? You're just like, it's, it's wildly indulgent. It's all these things, it's maximalist. But I was just missing the profundity of that moment for Kat and what that meant for a young woman just discovering her power and her sexuality and all of that. You know what I mean?

[Rob Mahoney]

Well, especially when that whole plotline was just kind of jettisoned into the sun midstream. Like there was not a lot of follow through on it to much controversy around the trajectory of the show. And that character, I mean, Kitten Queen did walk so that it's just me. Cassie can run. I'd miss it too. And I thought like, obviously there's more than enough room on the Internet for multiple women to tell men that they're nothing in order to get them off. Like, it's a very special.

[Joanna Robinson]

And how small their penis is.

[Rob Mahoney]

I mean it's a crucial part of the formula. But revisiting that specific ground, it's very hard not to think about a cat.

[Joanna Robinson]

Absolutely. This is the chaser to this particular shot is Cassie's tour of various podcasts. Want to come on the podcast Manosphere Esque. That's the whiff of what's going on here.

[Rob Mahoney]

What do you think of her talking points, Jo?

[Joanna Robinson]

Well, I mean, men are treated as second class citizens in America.

[Rob Mahoney]

I agree. I've just been waiting for you to say it. Thank you very much.

[Joanna Robinson]

I'm gonna put it on a T shirt. I thought what I loved about this sequence. So Trisha Paytas, you know, real life podcasting personality who is recently very funny on the TV on the HBO show Hacks shows up. And when Trisha Paytas, who is like a bit of a ridiculous person is reacting to Cassie, like, huh. I thought that was perfect. Cassie.

[Rob Mahoney]

Really?

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, really good. And this comes. This all dovetails into the attack of the 50 foot woman sequence. What did you think of that?

[Rob Mahoney]

I feel like if you can't enjoy the show when it does this, I fear you might be watching the wrong show. This is exactly, again, indulgent is the right word that you isolated as far as what euphoria can be. This sort of extended homage that is at one point just ridiculous and funny. And for me, it's all the little things. It's the helicopter telling her to get on her knees specifically. It's the way she swats the chopper with her ponytail. It's her stepping on this poor dude in his tent. There's so many just funny moments. And yet it is also a giant Cassie literally praying to the Hollywood sign in a way that like, this just is what the show is. And I quite enjoy that part of it.

[Joanna Robinson]

The Jesus save sign on top of the Ace Hotel, et cetera, et cetera. They did mention in the behind the scenes sequence that it took them a year to build these miniatures.

[Rob Mahoney]

Which, with all due respect to the artisans creating these miniatures.

[Joanna Robinson]

Well, my follow up question is how long did it take to make the giant breasts? The breasts that like burst through the window?

[Rob Mahoney]

I had the same thought of not even how long it took, but there is a craftsperson here in town who went home after a long day of work. And they're like, honey, how was your day? I was like, you know what? It was okay. I had to create giant replicas of Sydney Sweeney's boobs that could convincingly puncture glass and smother this man to his satisfaction. That is a real thing that somebody had to do.

[Joanna Robinson]

And perhaps their partner's like, give me a scale. And they're like, nipples like this. On the attack of the 50 foot woman front, what I think is interesting, you know, they're playing not just with that imagery, but also Godzilla, which they mentioned, you know, overtly, like, the helicopter is like, you know, very Godzilla.

[Rob Mahoney]

Kaiju, Cassie, straight up.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah, absolutely. I wasn't so aware before I did my mini research today about how pervasive attack of the 50 foot woman is in the culture. Like, I knew There was the 58 version. I knew there was a 90s remake with Daryl Hann. I did not know that both Beyonce and Lana Del Rey have. Have incorporated it into their. Lana Del Rey did a music video and Beyonce is part of her Cowboy Carter tour. Like made it part of the visuals or Cowboy Carter Tour. And Tim Burton and Gillian Flynn of Gone Girl fame as of 2024, were working on a version of it starring Margot Robbie. So it's interesting. What I think is kind of fascinating about using the attack of the 50 foot woman for Cassie is that it's kind of weirdly 1958, kind of a feminist bop. Like, this woman has this horrible husband who's cheating on her, and the whole town is, like, kind of gaslighting her. She's very rich, and so they're all. And she has a drinking problem. And they're all like, she's a. She's a rich lady with a drinking problem. We got to, like, bilk her for all the money she has. She has, like, one friend in the world, and it's her employee, her butler. And then she just gets really big and just kills. Everyone wronged her. And I was like, all right. Which I can understand. Understand why both Lana Del Rey and Beyonce were like, sounds great. Let's do it. To put that with Cassie in her I love men T shirt is just an interesting juxtaposition.

[Rob Mahoney]

You know, it's funny. I mean, like many things with Cassie, there is a hollowing out to this poor woman that just, like, takes. Yeah. The idea of, like, a. A kind of feminist text wrapped in its own kind of, like, fetish context. A tale as old as time. Cassie's applications of most of these things are not quite so nuanced or complicated. It's just like, yeah, she got really big and popular.

[Joanna Robinson]

That being said, when Maddie's, like, talking about Nate not being a breadwinner, but a bread loser. And bars. What a bar.

[Rob Mahoney]

Give me that shirt.

[Joanna Robinson]

Are you kidding me? I thought the way that Sydney Sweeney peeked up from behind the flowers as she's, like, admitting that she wired him money was really funny.

[Rob Mahoney]

I love that shot.

[Joanna Robinson]

But when Maddie's, like, cut him loose or else he'll get 50% of everything you make. That's like, literally a plot line From Attack the 50 Foot Woman, where her shitty husband's like, I'm going to get her committed and. Or kill her so I can get all of her money.

[Rob Mahoney]

While we're talking about what Cassie makes, please, let's walk through. As this episode explains them. Let's stomp through, please, like, the business model of what Cassie is working with here, which is subscription fees, obviously. She's on only Fans. You're paying 50.

[Joanna Robinson]

50,000 subscribers?

[Rob Mahoney]

I mean, a lot. That's. That's not nothing. Yeah, some nominal fee, I would think, for, like, the ASMR type content on top of the subscription.

[Joanna Robinson]

Oh, yeah. No, those. I mean, I'm unfamiliar with only fans modeling, but I have seen a lot of, like, the cam girl business modeling, and it's just sort of like all of those special, like, oh, for sure. Rack up money.

[Rob Mahoney]

But do you think the asmr, like whisper my name and what I would like you to do to me into this weird microphone, is that above in cost to the $50 used panties through FedEx or is that below, do you think?

[Joanna Robinson]

I thought it was less than $50.

[Rob Mahoney]

That was my assumption.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Rob Mahoney]

And certainly less than a fart in a jar.

[Joanna Robinson]

Who's to say, man? Who's to say? Maddy's number1boymail.com if you know what the sort of price scaling for OnlyFans is often. I'm curious and I would like to know. And here's where I got really pissed at Cassie. How easily she's led. In general, that's just her. Her cassiness. But both Brandon and Nate just swooping and trying to steal Maddie's shine. Like, Maddie's nothing. Maddie's not doing anything. Brandon being like, she's a Hollywood leech. She's done nothing. It's all because I tagged you. Well, we. Well, we have just watched a montage of Maddie grinding. Cassie grinding, literally. But also like Maddie on the grind. Like, you know, and I got very mad about it as I'm meant to. We did get an email from our listener Rio, who was wondering. So Brandon has a. An influencer house. Very hype house coded. It's called Durill House in the contract that Cassie signs. We're going to come back to that in a second. Um, but I didn't know this. Our listener Rio wrote in within the last hour. You can always email us the hour between when the episode airs and we start recording.

[Rob Mahoney]

We encourage it.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah, there's a Netflix docu series, Dancing for the devil. The $7 million TikTok cults.

[Rob Mahoney]

Okay. Yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

And it's about this like, church cult thing that, you know, lured influencers and. And sort of parted them from their money and their families and their friends and their lives.

[Rob Mahoney]

So do you think Brandon read that fine print?

[Joanna Robinson]

Do you think Drill House is like, are we going to see something culty here? Or is it just a standard hype? I mean, because the thing about hype House or any of these influencer houses, not that I'm an expert, but like, it. It would be a far worse deal for Cassie to sign away. Any of her like, to sign that contract to Drill House and they own all of what Cassie makes.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yes.

[Joanna Robinson]

I think the percentage is going to be way worse than the mere 15% that Maddie was taking, I would think.

[Rob Mahoney]

That said, we don't know what's in Maddy's contract and the whole, like, let me get a picture of you with this autograph did seem a little like you want to read the fine print, Willy Wonka, Ursula style, to make sure you know exactly what you're doing here.

[Joanna Robinson]

For both, lawyer. For both. Like. Okay, but should we. I'm not a lawyer.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah. No.

[Joanna Robinson]

Should we be concerned that she signed this other contract?

[Rob Mahoney]

Well, she didn't deliver it, did she?

[Joanna Robinson]

Do we know that?

[Rob Mahoney]

I guess we don't.

[Joanna Robinson]

We saw her sign. I'm just asking questions. We saw her sign it. If she delivered that and she signed it before she signed Maddie's contract. Like, is that something. She might have just signed it and left it in her apartment and then, like, you know, tossed it on the. On the dildo pile. Like, when. When she got back from Maddie's apartment. I don't know. But I was just. I was just wondering about that.

[Rob Mahoney]

I think it's a totally fair question to ask. Both contracts clearly could be problems for Cassie, but I'm with you. Anything that removes you from ownership of your own content, for whatever purposes that may be, even if your content is just. I want to be the ninth person in this group that's learning the apple dance.

[Joanna Robinson]

Right.

[Rob Mahoney]

Like, you just remove yourself from so much of the economic equation when you do that.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yes. And, like, should we be worried about this contract that Cassie signed for Maddie, given especially that Maddie is now getting into business with Alamo? Absolutely. We should be. Absolutely.

[Rob Mahoney]

Depends on your point of view.

[Joanna Robinson]

From a TV entertainment point.

[Rob Mahoney]

Am I concerned about it? I'm not terribly.

[Joanna Robinson]

Should Cassie be. Should Suze be worried?

[Rob Mahoney]

Probably.

[Joanna Robinson]

Okay. Alamo has a real, like, Joe Pesci, Goodfellas. Am I. Are you, like, am I a comedian to you? Is this funny, like, moment?

[Rob Mahoney]

What did you think of this, being five' nine?

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah. What did you think of this moment, and what did you think of it, like, as a size conversation in contrast to this sort of, like, Cassie is enormous, and then Alamo's feeling small. Like, what did you think of that?

[Rob Mahoney]

I found this to be more effective than some of the other Alamo rants and conversations throughout this season, most of which I felt like, were just sort of, like, transported to a totally different kind of show or just like, a poor imitation of another thing that we've seen before. This at least captured, I think, something about this character that felt a little more interesting and a little more original. Even if it is something like just being kind of metaphorically five' nine. I was down for that part of it, and we kind of move on fast. Enough that it's sort of setting us up that, yes, this is a fixation point of this moment. But more importantly, Alamo's just kind of on tilt right now. Yes.

[Joanna Robinson]

It will take very little to get him on the polo horse. Yes. Okay.

[Rob Mahoney]

Does he strike you as a polo

[Joanna Robinson]

gentleman as much as Nate strikes me

[Rob Mahoney]

as a vinyl guy or Mel Torme guy?

[Joanna Robinson]

Mel Torme guy.

[Rob Mahoney]

Now, we do pan across and see if sublime. 100%.

[Joanna Robinson]

100%. But, like, streaming on Spotify.

[Rob Mahoney]

Not a physical media fan.

[Joanna Robinson]

No, no, no. I don't think so. I got very excited about the Mel Torme, but I did not think that it was something that Nate would listen to. Um, speaking of what media people are consuming. So at one point, when Rue goes in to talk to Alamo, he's playing the trumpet.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yep.

[Joanna Robinson]

Kitty is sort of sprawled on the couch.

[Rob Mahoney]

It's a metaphor.

[Joanna Robinson]

They're watching Gilda, the Rita Hayworth movie, which people who maybe are not Rita Hayworth knowers might know from Shawshank Redemption. They. It's the very scene where Morgan Freeman is like, this is the part I really like when she does that shit with her hair. Like, she flips her hair up. Right. Um, I was curious, like, I don't think these things are in here by accident. Just for fun. Right. Do you have any thoughts about why Rita Hayworth and Gilda might be here?

[Rob Mahoney]

I have no idea.

[Joanna Robinson]

Okay.

[Rob Mahoney]

Do you have any.

[Joanna Robinson]

I have too many thoughts.

[Rob Mahoney]

I mean, hit me, please.

[Joanna Robinson]

Well, something. So, Kitty, in last week's episode, danced to an Ann Margret track. And Sam Levinson. I went to this event last week with the Euphoria heads of department, and Sam Levinson was there, and he was talking about how much this actress reminded him of Aunt Margaret. Just like. And the exact sort of ginger shade of her hair is like, very Ann. Margaret's sex kitten, Rita Hayworth. Other famous redhead. We get a Julia Roberts scene also. So we've got a bunch of famous, like, Hollywood redheads. But Rita Hayworth is quite famous for a few things. Horrible marriages, a horrific makeover. Like, you know, they. Years of, like, electrolysis to, like, like, heighten her hairline, you know, just to make her look whiter, you know, she is. She's a Latina woman, and they, like, dyed her hair red and did all this, like, cosmetic makeover to turn her into this, like, Hollywood ideal. So thinking of, like, the Cassie makeover and stuff like that. But I. Perhaps most importantly, the third thing that Rita Hayworth is known for is terrible contracts inside of the Studio system of Hollywood, right? And this is an interview she gave in 1968, talking about her contract. She said, quote, I used to have to punch a time clock at Columbia every day of my life. That's what it was like. I was under exclusive contract. Like, they own me, I think. And she's talking about Harry Cohn, the head of Columbia at the time. I think he had my dressing room bugged. He was very possessive of me as a person. He didn't want me to go out with anybody, have any friends. No one can live that way. So I fought him. You want to know what I think of Harry Cohn? He was a monster. So she sued to get out of her. It's like all. All part of the legacy. But like, I don't know, I'm probably overthinking it, but thinking about, like, Rita Hayworth as this sort of very famous, like, she's from the outside, has been made synonymous with Hollywood glamour. You think of Rita Hayworth, you're like, that is, you know, golden age Hollywood glamour. And the reality is horrifically painful makeover died in an actually quite tragic way. And this, like, horrible, like, she did not think her life was a fairy tale, you know. And so this idea of, like, especially if the other clip we see in this episode is from Pretty Woman, which famously starts with sort of like, what's your dream? You know, city of dreams. Right. And it's sort of like the blend we're getting of the Hollywood studio system, the sex working industry. What's the difference between the two? I'm sure Euphoria would like us all to ask that question. I don't know. I think It's. I'm curious. Mattysnumber1boymail.com, if you guys have different reasons why you think this is here. But I always like to overthink why various film clips are being used.

[Rob Mahoney]

I really don't think it's overthinking at all. Especially to have that scene be in an Alamo oriented setting where so much of his involvement in this episode and he lays it out kind of explicitly when he meets up with Rue and Maddie later is like, just like. Equanimity was probably on the mood board for this episode, I think deals with the devil 100% on the mood board for this episode. And so that whole idea of a really corrupted contract that is like sucking all the life out of you before it casts you aside, I mean, that's all throughout this week's episode.

[Joanna Robinson]

Absolutely. What did you think of Bishop's cursed Monologue that he had here.

[Rob Mahoney]

I quite, like, gave me the revelation that. That I haven't had before at Bishop, which is he feels like the most Fargo character on this show.

[Joanna Robinson]

Absolutely.

[Rob Mahoney]

You could just drop him straight into any season of that show.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah. And I agree. Like Fargo, the TV show. The TV show, specifically. Yeah, I agree. I agree. Like a season. A real season two.

[Rob Mahoney]

A real season two. I don't agree that Rue is cursed, but she does have, like, a certain chaos that sort of follows her everywhere, that if you are as ordered as Bishop is, you could see as a curse.

[Joanna Robinson]

We love Daryl Burt Gibson. We think he's so good as Bishop. Something that Sam Levinson told me last week is that both Daryl and Anna Van Patten, who plays Kitty, he was so enamored and impressed by their performances that he expanded their roles for them. We really enjoyed Kitty's debut last week.

[Rob Mahoney]

Definitely.

[Joanna Robinson]

He told me that he, at the last minute wrote Darryl Britt Gibson, like, a huge speech for next week, episode six. So, like, you know, like, I kind of like knowing that about Euphoria, that it is almost instantaneously reactive to the. The elements that are working, you know, like, in the. In the behind the scenes that we get for. For this week's episode. When they are talking about the Mattie Alamo chemistry, like, I agree. I think the two of those, Adewale and Alexa is like, they were incredible together. So I don't know if they wrote even more for them in this season, but I wouldn't be by them. I mean, the lone writer, Sam Levinson, but I wouldn't be surprised if that was the case.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah, I think that's all you really want out of tv. And it's the unique opportunity that it has relative to a movie. Right. Is you can really capture the lightning in the bottle and then you can chase it for much, much longer.

[Joanna Robinson]

Well, I think what's interesting is, like, with something like Euphoria, where you have a lone creator and a very long process of making the seasons, you have more, I would say, freedom to do that, because for most other short season shows, like you're Locked, you've written your scripts, and by the time you're shooting, that's what, like, the 22 episode seasons were for, because you would, like, write seven episodes at a time and you would react. And so, like, Euphoria is sort of distinctive in that way.

[Rob Mahoney]

Sure is, Joe.

[Joanna Robinson]

Another thing I learned, and I hope these tidbits are interesting, but another thing I learned is that Alamo's House is based on this, like, abandoned Mike Tyson Ohio mansion. And if you Google Mike Tyson abandoned

[Rob Mahoney]

Ohio Mansion, I simply am gonna do it right now.

[Joanna Robinson]

You will see some familiar visuals, and it's quite interesting.

[Rob Mahoney]

Oh, wow. Yeah. You can see a pretty striking similarity in terms of some of the vistas, some of the architecture. Also. I would live here.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Rob Mahoney]

I would investigate.

[Joanna Robinson]

Is it just sitting abandoned in Ohio? Should we go there?

[Rob Mahoney]

I think we should. That's the Prestige Mansion now. That's the Prestige, like, Drill House.

[Joanna Robinson]

Drill House.

[Rob Mahoney]

This will be our content factory.

[Joanna Robinson]

And you have to work on Sunday. Oh, you have to work on Sunday nights, man.

[Rob Mahoney]

That's the hell we've created for our.

[Joanna Robinson]

The Nate and Cassie house, which gets even more blood on the carpet in this episode, was based off of. They wanted something that felt like Casino, like Sharon Stone, who's in this show, but like a hot mess express in Casino. So that's what they wanted, is like, proximate to a golf course. The shag carpet, all of that. They're trying to a sliding glass door

[Rob Mahoney]

that somebody could, like, terminate her their way through. Perhaps.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Zepbound Advertiser]

Yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

Perhaps the really most fascinating thing I learned from this. This lunch that I went to, though, is that a couple people talked to me about the differences between season. I'm curious what your thoughts are on this. The difference between season one and season, Season one and two and season three is that they. Their view is that the perspective in season one and season two is subjective. It is ruse, sort of. We're inside her head fantasy, subjective. This season is meant to be much more objective. And I'm still wrapping my head around

[Rob Mahoney]

that because, like, a man was literally smothered by giant Sydney Sweeney's breasts.

[Joanna Robinson]

Well, between the Rue voiceover, which is still here, so we're still less so.

[Rob Mahoney]

Less so.

[Joanna Robinson]

And then, yeah, we're still getting, like, fantasy sequences. So I think it's meant to be sort of a wider view and less rue centric, which is definitely true. You know, perhaps due to Zendaya's schedule. I don't know. But, like, I don't know. I'm curious to keep tracking that idea of objective versus subjective. I'm not sure I fully have the sense of it yet.

[Rob Mahoney]

I'm not gonna lie to you. It never occurred to me that Euphoria could be an objective show.

[Joanna Robinson]

Right.

[Rob Mahoney]

It's so impressionistic. Regardless of if you're going into the weird kind of imaginative sequences or not. That, yeah, we're maybe not anchored so much to rue, but I'm with you. We've broadened out the scope, it still feels tonally kind of similar to where

[Joanna Robinson]

we've been checking in on the. And obviously this is just a small sampling of the people who are watching Euphoria. But checking in on the Reddit, like, which I like to do right after the episode aired, there's a lot of frustration from people that they feel like Sydney Sweeney is sort of overwhelming this season, which was one of my complaints earlier this season. I did really like Cassie last week, and I liked a lot of what's going on with Cassie, especially now that she is, like, in Maddie's storyline, in Lexi's storyline. Like, all of that works much better for me. But if you come to Euphoria for Jules or for maybe even, I would argue inside of this episode, Ru, you might, you know, feel like you're not getting the show that you want to get.

[Rob Mahoney]

Well, yeah. Do you want to talk about some of those characters? Because I think Nate's in that category too. It feels.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah, but who comes to Euphoria for Nate?

[Rob Mahoney]

I mean, I hope nobody. True sickos, Real toe enthusiasts of a kind. I guess not finger enthusiast. Just digit fanatics of all sorts.

[Joanna Robinson]

The Velvet Fogheads themselves.

[Rob Mahoney]

But I would say now that Maddy has been sort of pulled into the Alamo. Rue part of things. Nate and Jules feel like the most stranded on, like, the outskirts of the story. And there are different ways that they could get pulled in at various times. But Jules especially is just, like, in her little, like, condo, ivory tower, not really interacting with anyone. I actually did quite like the scene she has with Rue here. It's maybe, like, a little direct in terms of Isol, what it is about those two characters, whole deals, but this concept that Jules is somebody who has always kind of aspired for things and dreamed of things, and Rue is kind of comfortably numb even when she's at her best. That tension, I do think, is an interesting thing to highlight.

[Joanna Robinson]

Were you surprised to find out that they have not been kissing?

[Rob Mahoney]

No.

[Joanna Robinson]

Okay.

[Rob Mahoney]

Only because Rue is such a chill on the couch kind of character.

[Joanna Robinson]

Well, so this is a follow up to a previous conversation we had where one of our listeners was like, hey, this hypersexual Rue that we see in the strip club, this angel Rue sexual dynamic, doesn't feel like the Rue we've known before. And almost as if the show heard them. We get this scene with Jules right, where Jules is bringing up the same issue they had in season two, which is just like, are you passionate about me? I would like passion. The heartbreaking cut from, like, Grab Me by The face and kiss me and make me yours to, like, loud sex sounds, but, like, it's euphoria. And we're like, I know it's gonna be the fucker Ellis, you know, and then this like. But what's interesting is the contrast between Jules desire to be, like, wholly possessed, wholly passionately wanted. But then when. When she's treated like a possession by Ellis. I thought. I thought the moment where Ellis is like, I love my. I like you, but I love my family. Yeah, right. Like, here. Here's where you are on the ranking. Hunter Schaeffer's face, Jules face in that moment was extremely heartbreaking. And so, like, am I getting all the Jules content I want? No, but Hunter Schaefer is like, as always, deliverer, delivering. But what's interesting about Jules is like, unlike a lot of. Well, no, I mean, I would say rude too, but, like, what's always been so interesting about the Jules storyline is that her dad, much more, you know, we saw much more of him in season one, but has always been depicted as like, a really supportive, loving parent.

[Rob Mahoney]

And so a little oblivious, sure. Generally supportive.

[Joanna Robinson]

But, you know, I was thinking not as basic as daddy issues, but thinking about, like, what. What hole inside of her heart is Jules trying to desperately chase and fill here? I mean, the trauma of what her mom did to her is certainly there, but she does. She does have this. This other loving parent, which is, you know, not. Does not. He'll heal all wounds. But I don't know, I'm just, like, thinking a lot about Jules, and I want more. Jules is what I want.

[Rob Mahoney]

I do, too. I think that's what makes it hard to see these sorts of scenes, because you're right, it makes you want more and more Jules in the story. And I don't know what the inroads for that are, other than a continued exploration of everything going on with Alice, which I agree with you. Like, to me, one of the standout moments in terms of just Hunter Schaeffer's reactions as Jules there. And specifically the idea that it's not even that she's being treated like a possession, it's that she's almost like less than that. It's like if he had come in and been upset because he was feeling possessive of her, that would have been one sort of feeling. But it's not even that he's feeling possessive. It's just like, I don't want to catch anything.

[Joanna Robinson]

Right.

[Rob Mahoney]

And therefore, you can't be out there in the streets like that.

[Joanna Robinson]

You can't endanger my family that's part of it. But also he literally wrapped her in plastic. So like you know, also a possession.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yes.

[Joanna Robinson]

And she like loved it. Question mark I don't know.

[Rob Mahoney]

Was game for it at the very least.

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[Joanna Robinson]

All right, let's see. What else do I wanna talk about? Oh, obviously I wanna talk about Shakespeare.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah. As the foremost scholar here at the Ringer, Joe.

[Joanna Robinson]

Oh, that's not true.

[Rob Mahoney]

How did you feel about Cassie's representation of the.

[Joanna Robinson]

Okay, again, I was told there was a Shakespeare monologue in this episode. I happened Sunday. Yesterday morning I had breakfast with my high school English teacher. A really normal thing to do.

[Rob Mahoney]

We respect English teachers. But that's just like the most Joanna Robinson shit I can imagine you saying.

[Joanna Robinson]

Shout out. Phil Goodyear is the best. I had breakfast with him and this other woman who's an English teacher. And so I was telling him. I was like, there's a Shakespeare monologue I've been told in euphoria. What? Which Shakespeare monologue do we think it is? We were sort of like all placing bets on what we thought it would be. None of us got it right. And I did text him while we were watching. Holy fuck, it's Anthony and Cleopatra. For some reason.

[Rob Mahoney]

Guess what? She's Cleopatra.

[Joanna Robinson]

I will say Mr. Gutierrez was the closest because he guessed the Lady Macbeth unsex me here. And I'm kind of tempted to believe that they picked this particular monologue from Anti and Cleopatra so they could have Sydney Sweeney say lamey stark naked and let the waterflies blow me into a whoring. I'm pretty sure that that's why sometimes this particular monologue was picked.

[Rob Mahoney]

You reverse engineer from there?

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah. What did you make of the. Of the Shakespeare?

[Rob Mahoney]

I just. I thought it was funny mostly in the. Like, if she can do Shakespeare, she could do LA Knights part.

[Joanna Robinson]

I think the way it was shot.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

We're meant to think she was good. Good at it.

[Rob Mahoney]

I think she was reasonably good at it.

[Joanna Robinson]

I think she's better than you would expect Cassie to be at it.

[Rob Mahoney]

Better than somebody who was just negotiating whether she should fart in a jar and send it to somebody.

[Joanna Robinson]

It's a fact. Better than someone in like a butterfly halter you would expect with her 100%. She contains butterfly.

[Rob Mahoney]

I thought she did pretty well.

[Joanna Robinson]

Pretty well.

[Rob Mahoney]

Do you think the casting video itself had the same sort of like tasteful intensifying slow zoom. That guy was just locked in on that zoom.

[Joanna Robinson]

That's one of my favorite tricks that whenever shows and movies are trying to depict someone acting in a way that everyone's impressed by, you can work with reaction shots of people being like, oh, my God. But often it's the camera is doing a slow zoom in or a pan around. It's a really good visual shortcut for.

[Rob Mahoney]

Can I tell you something?

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Rob Mahoney]

It works on me every time. I am susceptible to that sort of manipulation.

[Joanna Robinson]

Maddy Rue and Equanimity. What did you think of this?

[Rob Mahoney]

I mean, she's a philosopher.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Rob Mahoney]

You know, I did love. You know, he's not a breadwinner. He's a bread loser. I mean, that's phenomenal stuff. Maybe the quantity is keeping you from the quality. That's real, you know, that's a very real concept. And her whole spiel out Equanimity. I mean, genuinely unbelievable stuff for Maddie this week.

[Joanna Robinson]

When you're thinking about Maddie as a religious person.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah, that was news to me.

[Joanna Robinson]

Well, I was gonna ask you. I mean, look, we saw the crucifix dangling tastefully right above the butt crack at the wedding. That's not where she dangles it. You know what I mean? Like real Jenny Callender shit for Maddie. But, yeah, this. The way in which the religious themes are and are not being either seamlessly integrated or sort of like hit you over the head with it this season is something that we're tracking. Equanimity is interesting because it is a. It's a. It's a religious. It's a philosophical idea. It's a Buddhist idea. It's a whatever. But it is an idea that comes up a lot in addiction and recovery. This is. This is from a specific. A website that's devoted to, like, women and recovery. Equanimity is the ability to remain calm and balanced regardless of external circumstances. This state of mind allows us to approach challenges with clarity, resilience, and compassion. Equanimity is particularly valuable in addiction recovery. It helps individuals navigate the ups and downs of the healing process, reducing the risk. Risk of relapse. So as Rue is on her journey for of recovery is equanimity and this idea of something bigger than yourself. I think that, you know, not just giant Sydney Sweeney boobs, but also just sort of like the. The religious idea of there's something bigger than me. This is how small I am in the. In the grand scheme of things. And that can make all of my problems feel smaller and. And achievable because again. And it doesn't. You don't even have to. I have a friend of mine who's an astrophysicist who talks about how when she think about how massive the galaxy is, it makes her problems feel absolutely tiny in a way that makes her feel great, actually. So I think that's interesting.

[Rob Mahoney]

This is the narrow ledge we walk as human beings. Right. Because there is that. Do you stare out into the infinite abyss and feel like your problems are small? Or do you stare out into the infinite abyss. Infinite abyss. And feel like you are small and you are insignificant?

[Joanna Robinson]

What kind of abyss gazer are you?

[Rob Mahoney]

I mean, it depends. Really depends on the day.

[Joanna Robinson]

Okay.

[Rob Mahoney]

Do you have a strong leaning?

[Joanna Robinson]

I think I take comfort in how small we are and how. What a brief time we're here in the grand scheme of things.

[Rob Mahoney]

I mean, it really just depends on what you're trying to talk yourself into. I'm not gonna lie to you. But I did love Maddie's place in this and her as a counterbalance to Rue. Like, as we talked about earlier, Rue is such a chaotic character, or at least at the center of a lot of chaos. Having someone like Maddy, who, within this scene, feels like she's being dragged into this incredibly dangerous world that Rue and Alamo inhabit. And then you realize Maddie doesn't really get dragged anywhere.

[Joanna Robinson]

No. Rue's like, didn't you have to be somewhere, Maddie? And Maddie's like, nope, I'm good.

[Rob Mahoney]

I got a milkshake to drink.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah. So is Maddie driving the Mercedes here? To a certain degree, yes. But there is obviously a sense of. Sense of doom in the way that it's shot. When she enters the Silver Slip, she

[Rob Mahoney]

doesn't know everything she's getting into.

[Joanna Robinson]

Certainly she thinks she understood. She's like, I'm walking in with my eyes open. This is a sex industry. And I understand the sex industry. And she's like, oops, I'm in the feeding corpses to pigs industry. I didn't know. I didn't know.

[Rob Mahoney]

Turns out they overlap.

[Joanna Robinson]

Oh, what did you make of. Oh, we both really enjoyed Zendaya's performance when Rue is nervously laughing when Alamo shows up.

[Rob Mahoney]

It's just a one of one, like, anxiety bomb, actually.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Rob Mahoney]

I mean, also, watch the drama for, like, increasingly effective versions of that.

[Joanna Robinson]

Alexa Demi is an incredibly tiny woman and Adewale is, like, a large man. He's not five' nine, I'll tell you that much right now. But the way that they shot him, sort of like the heaviness of his boots as he walked in. The way that he's looming over them, we get sort of feels like a callback to that shot of Kitty and, like, the silhouette of his hat and Kitty's legs that you called out last week as he's just sort of, like, looming over them. Matty's taken in, like, all of the accessories, which was it Alexa Demi said in the behind the Scenes. But I think this, like, Maddie is so impressive. And I. I believe in her so much. And yet watching this tiny woman and this massive. And we know that he is very dangerous.

[Rob Mahoney]

Incredibly so. More than she could imagine.

[Joanna Robinson]

Watching them crammed together, like, in the Mercedes even, is just like. And then, like, the two of them almost like, I don't know, wizard of Oz esque, like, going into the silver slipper here, you know, I'm nervous for your girl.

[Rob Mahoney]

I am nervous, but I'm less so as just a general TV watcher. Because this illuminated something that's just true about Euphoria. And the reason why I feel like Maddie is the best character on the show. She works with everybody, like, any actor, any character on Euphoria. This is the most I've been interested in Alamo since he's been on the show. Is seeing him with Maddy.

[Joanna Robinson]

Hard, sad.

[Rob Mahoney]

I think Maddie's stuff with Ru is often electric. Maddie's stuff with Lexi can be really fun. Maddie's stuff with Cassie has obviously been horrific. Cassie's best moments, even with Jules at

[Joanna Robinson]

the wedding, completely good stuff. Yeah.

[Rob Mahoney]

And so it's like getting to see different sides of Alamo is what's exciting to me about that prospect. And I think what makes Maddy effective is, like, she's not. It's not that she's a plain character that lets other characters pop. Like, she's just operating on a frequency that I think brings the best out of these other constructions of who these other people are. And so if we get to see other sides of Alamo, even if there are very dangerous sides, that's a show I'm interested in watching.

[Joanna Robinson]

It's a show I'm interested and scared to watch.

[Rob Mahoney]

Well, yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

Well, yeah. Anything you want to say about the way the sort of meat market moment was shot? The girls, like, where we see, like, first the legs and then the breasts and then finally the faces. As Maddie is sort of prowling around, sizing everybody up?

[Rob Mahoney]

I mean, I enjoy kind of the articulation. It's almost like a test from Alamo. Right. Of, like, a matter of taste a little bit. Like, who will you pick out of this lineup. His satisfaction when she picks the two right girls. But you're right, it's gross. It's weird. It is understandably reducing all of these women into what are their most marketable characteristics. And I love the inversion of Maddy's story as the show lays out of. She's been taking people like Cassie and turning them into onlyfans models. But the idea of kind of reverse engineering based on the willingness of how far someone is willing to go and that person starting out being a stripper or sex worker, all of a sudden, the world is very wide.

[Joanna Robinson]

I think it's also interesting to think about Cassie at this juncture where she has this LA Knights opportunity, which is like, yes, a small role. Lexi's pissed. I don't. I don't blame Lexi for being pissed,

[Rob Mahoney]

but, like, brutal turn for Lexi.

[Joanna Robinson]

Really tough. But, like, Cassie's got a small role that I could definitely see a Cassie turning into something bigger, you know, job applicant.

[Rob Mahoney]

I mean, that's a juicy part.

[Joanna Robinson]

So there's that and then there's whatever Maddie's about to drag her into the silver slipper. Like, here's. Here's the fork in the road. And, you know, like, where does her career go from here? What is her future? What choice does she make? Or does she have a choice because she signed that contract with Maddie? I don't know.

[Rob Mahoney]

It's a great question. I think one of the more successful aspects of the season overall is like, the. It's a very Los Angeles show all of a sudden. Whereas I would say the early Hollywood specifically. But, you know, the earlier seasons were kind of like suburbs. Yes, it's California, but it could kind of be a lot of different places anywhere in California. But where we're getting to with Maddy and Cassie in particular, these are like two very particular kinds of Hollywood people, right? In Maddy, someone who's like, willing to completely fake it until they make it.

[Joanna Robinson]

I really. When Maddie to Lexi is like, do you want to make an enemy of me on the Warner Brothers lot, I was like, I know that person. I've talked to that person.

[Rob Mahoney]

I know that person also. I don't. Don't want to make an enemy of them. But so, like, Maddy is faking it in every possible respect, pumping herself up, pretending she's something she's not, even if she's cleaning up like Chihuahua shit in her job time. And then Cassie is someone who's willing to do anything for a slice of attention. And so this is taking the Cassie idea, I think, to an even deeper and potentially darker, extreme in terms of who Maddie's gonna be working with now.

[Joanna Robinson]

Something I think that's interesting is. I mean, I think the biggest laugh of the episode, of course, is when Cassie's like, you're my best friend. And Maddie's like, really?

[Rob Mahoney]

It's both maybe the funniest and saddest moment in eu. And that's really saying something.

[Joanna Robinson]

But what I liked about it is we heard Cassie, like, whine that throughout season two. Yeah, Maddie's my best friend. Like, that's 80% of Cassie's lines in season two. So she's hidden it pretty hard in this episode to, like, Nate to Brandon for. For Maddie just to be like, really?

[Rob Mahoney]

What are you talking about?

[Joanna Robinson]

So good. I thought it was really, really.

[Rob Mahoney]

All of their exchanges are so good. Like, when Cassie's talking about, like, what have I lied to you about recently?

[Joanna Robinson]

Recently,

[Rob Mahoney]

again, I just thought. I thought both of them were kind of on fire in this episode.

[Joanna Robinson]

And the point, too, you know, the much promised.

[Rob Mahoney]

Please, please let it continue.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah, Maddie just being completely unbothered and getting on the fake phone call is just, like, incredibly good. But, I mean, maybe that's her equanimity. It's sort of like, let's roll on to the next thing. I found my piece.

[Rob Mahoney]

I mean, it just feels so of that character, too, for Cassie to, like, not even beat around the bush, but, like, beat around the garden that contains the bush. She's, like, so scared to step on anyone's toe.

[Joanna Robinson]

She's circling the perimeter of the room, literally barely. When she. When she signs that contract, when Cassie signs that contract and holds it up for Matty and she breathes just Dylan, like, his name. I thought that was really, really funny. Shout out, Homer Gear. I hope that your dad enjoyed being in this episode of Euphoria.

[Rob Mahoney]

I also thought that was a great bit of kind of, like, plot magic, as far as. You know, you're right that you're kind of meant to be angry about the way Brandon is presenting Maddy and all these different things. But this idea that Maddy, on some level, kind of, like, knows Cassie well enough to know, like, the exact thing that she wants, even if she doesn't have it yet. It's like, this is a.

[Joanna Robinson]

What man can I dangle in front of her?

[Rob Mahoney]

That's kind of all you need.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Rob Mahoney]

And it's like, Brandon is, like, talking to generalities and, like, go stand on this balcony. And, like, isn't this lifestyle great? And Maddy's like, here's this, like, very real guy.

[Joanna Robinson]

And you can get his attention.

[Rob Mahoney]

I'm gonna put you in as job applicants.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Rob Mahoney]

And who knows what happens from there.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah. Yeah. Anything else you want to say about Nate? Oh, okay. So something I learned about this house is that they were told they could not. I was. I was asking, like, did you pick that house because you thought blood would look especially good on that carpet? And they were told they couldn't. The only thing they couldn't mess up was the carpet. So they had to source matching carpet swatches to, like, put Jacob Elordi on so he could burble blood and not ruin the original yellow shag that was in the house.

[Rob Mahoney]

It did look like. Like it had been completely cleaned out somehow.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Rob Mahoney]

I assume that's where some of, like, the $30,000.

[Joanna Robinson]

Any else you want to send Nate's. I love you. I love you. I love you. Send me that money. Like, anything. I mean, his. His.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

I guess their housekeeper no longer works there because he can't afford it. The entire place is an absolute pig sty. Anything else you want to say about Nate Jacobs?

[Rob Mahoney]

I at least prefer this version of Nate to the early season, decent version of Nate.

[Joanna Robinson]

He at least seems like an asshole.

[Rob Mahoney]

She's a shithead.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah. You know, like, and a loser.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yes. Like, Nate, a bread loser.

[Joanna Robinson]

A Nate who peaked in high school.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yes.

[Joanna Robinson]

And is now just, like, a real loser who, I don't know, gender norm cannot provide for his family or whatever, but is just sort of like, sitting around, not even cleaning the house, not even doing anything. Is like, go whore yourself out.

[Rob Mahoney]

Straight up. Pipping out his wife. Yeah, yeah. Like, I think the turn from now that there are no illusions out there. They've all been shattered. Everyone knows he's a broke boy. Everyone knows he's a fraud. It's like, I guess now just, like, go ahead and make those videos, you know, like, let's just get that money.

[Joanna Robinson]

Create a story with Brandon.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yes.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Rob Mahoney]

Just a little tension, a little flirtation, the suggestion of a relationship online. But then he's also, like, so lost in, like, drinks and day dancing in his living room that he, like, forgets to send the money for the payment and thus loses his finger. Anyway.

[Joanna Robinson]

No. Can I just tell you that. That Nate getting completely bankrolled by Cassie working her ass off, literally, like, in this industry, and him not making the payment. Even still, Chef's kiss you for it again.

[Rob Mahoney]

This is. That's very funny stuff.

[Joanna Robinson]

The breadiest loser that ever was.

[Rob Mahoney]

The henchman coming through the sliding door and him running upstairs walking all the

[Joanna Robinson]

way across the golf course to get

[Rob Mahoney]

there, but just naked, running upstairs and, like, hiding in a bathroom.

[Joanna Robinson]

Oh, like a. Like a dumb blonde in a horror movie, perhaps. Yeah.

[Rob Mahoney]

But also, you know what? If that's how you hide, I'm just gonna say it. You deserve to get your finger cut off. You didn't even try.

[Joanna Robinson]

All right, here's the last thing else. Is there anything else you want to say before I wrap us up?

[Rob Mahoney]

About Nate in particular?

[Joanna Robinson]

No, about Euphoria.

[Rob Mahoney]

Where do you want to go? How do you want to wrap this up?

[Joanna Robinson]

Just some information that I learned about the finale? No, no spoilers. Just some information.

[Rob Mahoney]

How is it going to be information about the finale that's not a spoiler.

[Joanna Robinson]

They just turned it in last Monday. Okay, that's interesting information.

[Rob Mahoney]

That's info.

[Joanna Robinson]

It's 93 minutes long.

[Rob Mahoney]

Sure is. That Sunday is going to be great for us.

[Joanna Robinson]

That's interesting info. They gave me, like, a tone note for the ending, which I don't think is a spoiler. Would you like me to share it with you?

[Rob Mahoney]

I'm interested in a tone note.

[Joanna Robinson]

Okay. They said it's a hopeful ending, but not for everyone. Euphoria.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah, I would expect nothing less, frankly.

[Joanna Robinson]

But, like, okay, thinking about that hopeful ending, but not for everyone. Who do you. Maddy's number one boy most want to have or think will have a hopeful ending to this series.

[Rob Mahoney]

I mean, Kitty, obviously. She's gonna ride off into the sunset. Nothing bad is gonna happen to Kitty.

[Joanna Robinson]

She's gonna be fine.

[Rob Mahoney]

They all seem kind of screwed in their own ways, don't they?

[Joanna Robinson]

Lexi, I hope.

[Rob Mahoney]

Lexi. But I think Lexi's just gonna be still stuck in the purgatory that is her life in which she works really hard for something and her sister swoops in with a low cut shirt and gets a better version of it.

[Joanna Robinson]

Can't believe that she learned nothing from the plethora of Dick's moment with Jules where she, like, once again brought in someone from her real life into her job.

[Rob Mahoney]

You just can't do it.

[Joanna Robinson]

Uh, it's tough. It's tough. Lexi. I'm hopeful.

[Rob Mahoney]

I mean, the tone of the season and the religious through lines would tell

[Joanna Robinson]

us maybe it ends with Lexi having sex with someone she's really excited to have sex for.

[Rob Mahoney]

With Dylan Reed.

[Joanna Robinson]

Dylan.

[Rob Mahoney]

I don't know. He doesn't seem great.

[Joanna Robinson]

She hooks up with Dylan Reed and Cassie does not.

[Rob Mahoney]

Finally gets her win. That would be interesting. I'd be game for that.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Rob Mahoney]

I don't. I'm trying to Parse, like, if any of the religious undertones and themes of the season would tell us, like, who. Who is. Who is graced by God, you know, who. Who is through with the apple on, like, I mean, but also, she survives everything.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Rob Mahoney]

Including.

[Joanna Robinson]

I mean, we definitely think she's surviving this episode.

[Rob Mahoney]

There's no question, right?

[Joanna Robinson]

Like, zero question. They're coily. In the. In the preview for next week, you do not see Rue.

[Rob Mahoney]

Very clever.

[Joanna Robinson]

You do see the two DEA guys, like, rolling up to the spot where she was buried alive. So, like, I think she's gonna be fine. I know she's gonna be fine. Like Zendaya, they did not kill her.

[Rob Mahoney]

Off screen.

[Joanna Robinson]

Off screen.

[Rob Mahoney]

Did not happen. So why are we ending an episode this way? I don't know.

[Joanna Robinson]

It's a great question. I was a little irritated by that. Anything else you want to say?

[Rob Mahoney]

I want to circle back. You mentioned the Julia Roberts brief appearance in this episode via the tv Pretty Woman, baby. I mean, Pretty Woman. Incredible moment. Incredible scene. Is this relationship goals or relationship hell? What we see from Faye, and I'm going to be straight up a Nazi dude just sitting around lounging, watching Pretty Woman. Can you pull the redeeming quality of that?

[Joanna Robinson]

Can we rewind that? Can we remove Nazi from the equation?

[Rob Mahoney]

I don't know that you can. He's got a Confederate flag phone case.

[Joanna Robinson]

I think Faye being like, please don't answer the phone during this scene from Pretty Woman. It's my favorite. Is the best part.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

Relationship goals. Nazi confederate flag phone case.

[Rob Mahoney]

Who does in fact answer the phone during that scene anyway Way.

[Joanna Robinson]

That's not great. Yeah, it's not great. But they seem to be in love.

[Rob Mahoney]

They sure do.

[Joanna Robinson]

And I don't think it's going to go well for them.

[Rob Mahoney]

So you don't think they're going to have the happy ending? Sorry. The hopeful ending. Slightly different.

[Joanna Robinson]

Slightly different. No. I don't think it's going to go well for Fay to have been involved in the robbery of Alamo's nightclub.

[Rob Mahoney]

But the Nazi guy. Maybe this is a show where the Nazis win. I don't know.

[Joanna Robinson]

It's the anti inglorious bastards. We're crossing our fingers for the Nazis. Please pull that for social. We'd love to have it on the gram. All right. Anything else you want to say?

[Rob Mahoney]

Let's get out of here, Joe.

[Joanna Robinson]

Okay. Happy Mother's Day. Thank you to Jamie, who is here with us and thank you to Rob Mahoney.

[Rob Mahoney]

Thank you, Joe.

[Joanna Robinson]

Thank you to HBO for this unique Sunday night experience. And we'll be back with perhaps a teen show flashback. Probably another widow's bay check in later this month.

[Rob Mahoney]

Absolutely.

[Joanna Robinson]

And definitely more euphoria.

[Rob Mahoney]

Bank on it. Maybe 50 foot woman, like included. Do you think we'll get a return?

[Joanna Robinson]

The return of the 50 foot woman?

[Rob Mahoney]

I don't know. I don't know how the season ends. Maybe that's hopeful for somebody.

[Joanna Robinson]

You're like, they didn't spend a year building that model.

[Rob Mahoney]

Certainly this businessman is hoping for it. You know, like he had different dreams.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah. Yeah. Well, here's hoping for Frank. And we'll see you soon. Bye.

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[Joanna Robinson]

So good you'll want to leave a voicemail about it. Sell your car today.

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