‘Euphoria’ Season 3, Episode 6: Mama’s Got a Brand New Mule

Summary

The Prestige TV Podcast: ‘Euphoria’ Season 3, Episode 6 “Mama’s Got a Brand New Mule”

Air Date: May 18, 2026
Hosts: Joanna Robinson, Rob Mahoney

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Episode Overview

Joanna Robinson and Rob Mahoney reconvene for another "Euphoria Sunday" to dissect Season 3, Episode 6, “Mama’s Got a Brand New Mule.” This episode is shaped by the looming supersized finale, explorations of fandom expectations (and their absence), and wild developments in both narrative structure and character arcs. Key discussions include fan theories about Rue, frustrations and insights around character trajectories (with a focus on Rue, Jules, Cassie, Maddy, and Lexi), the biblical subtext, ongoing gang machinations, and the expanding list of unresolved or offbeat subplots (including Nazi love stories and Chekhov’s snake). The conversation blends earnest analysis, sharp humor, cultural references, and reactions to notable moments and listener mail.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Finale, Fandoms, and Euphoria’s Place Among TV Giants

• Expectations for Endings: (01:31–03:15)
  • Joanna draws a distinction between Euphoria and series like Outlander and The Boys regarding finale pressure and fandom tension.
  • Quote: “I feel like the Euphoria fandom is free from that [finale anxiety] because... it’s just another animal, another python altogether than the previous seasons and the specials.” — Joanna Robinson (03:10)
• Euphoria’s Amorphous Narrative:
  • Rob notes much of the audience has already self-selected, leaving hardcore viewers with less speculative tension about the show’s destination.

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2. Fan Theories: “Is Rue Already Dead?”

Timestamps: 05:11–07:35

• Joanna addresses an email theory that Rue died in the car crash and the rest of the show is a postmortem fugue.
  • Rob: “Hasn't this theory already caught fire for every show since the dawn of time?” (05:25)
• Discussion turns to narrative hints (burning Joshua Tree, Rue’s dialogue about children and home) and textual ambiguity.
  • Quote: “I never felt more certain that Rue was not gonna make it out of the season alive than... talking about wanting to have kids in the church scene.” — Joanna Robinson (07:11)
• Both ultimately doubt Rue is literally dead but appreciate the motif of death looming over the season.

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3. Rue & Jules: From Fantasy to Reality

Timestamps: 08:00–12:25

• Responding to a listener's email about objectivity vs. subjectivity in Season 3:
  • Joanna notes the show’s departure from Rue’s fantasy lens, especially in interactions with Jules. The slap from Jules is debated, with Joanna sympathetic to Jules’ frustration.
    • Quote: “I care about Rue. But in that moment, I didn’t think Jules slapping her was out of pocket.” — Joanna Robinson (09:53)
  • Rob critiques the narrative whiplash, especially in Rue and Jules's intimacy beat.
• Both lament the sidelining of Jules this season, though they appreciate the meta inclusion of Hunter Schafer’s live painting.

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4. Character Check-Ins: Maddy, Nate, Cassie, Lexi

Key Timestamps: 12:25–29:32

Maddy

• Joanna: Disappointed by an episode that teased a big Maddy moment but largely sidelined her.

Nate

• Rob: “All he has done this season is embarrass himself in front of the zoning council and lose a finger and a toe.” (13:16)
• They joke about his lack of a gun (“of course Nate would use a gun to intimidate a teenage girl, but just sort of crumple in the face of real criminals” — Joanna, 13:57).

Cassie & Contracts

• Listener feedback: Cassie signed contracts with different names (maiden vs. married), sparking speculation on future legal shenanigans.

Lexi

• Joanna highlights Lexi’s greater involvement this episode, especially in writer’s room scenes.
  • Physical acting and character disappointment are praised: “...the pure disappointment on Maud Apatow’s face when Cassie does strike the deal...” — Rob (27:44)

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5. Biblical, Literary, and Pop Culture Subtext

Timestamps: 17:20–20:49

• Episode title and church motifs are unpicked, with detailed analysis of:
  • Exodus quote (“Stand still and see...”) vs. the story of the burning bush.
  • Rue listening to Genesis—subtle nods to judgment and destruction leading into the show's endgame.
  • Amusing speculation: If Euphoria gets a biblical “Noah,” which character would reboot the show? Rob nominates Cassie, Joanna nominates Maddy.

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6. The Alamo Cold Open & Backstory

Timestamps: 20:17–24:42

• Initial excitement tempered by disappointment: Danielle Deadwyler’s character is reduced to a tropic “one note temptress.”
  • The arc borrows heavily from Pimp by Iceberg Slim, but fails to bring new psychological depth to Alamo.
  • “Did you feel like this deepened the character?” — Joanna (21:36)
• Jokes about nominative determinism (naming a kid Alamo).

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7. Symbolism & Chekhov’s Snake

Timestamps: 30:23–32:31

• Snake motif is more practical than planned, but fans and hosts wonder if it’ll have major metaphorical or literal payoff.
  • “So we've been calling it Chekhov's snake, expecting that it’s going to strangle or eat somebody.” — Joanna (31:19)
• Snake-as-metaphor for duplicity and looming threats across plotlines.

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8. Faye & Wayne: Swastikas, Pepto-Bismol, and a Nazi Love Story

Timestamps: 34:12–38:25

• Second-biggest laugh of the night: SS hat plopped on Faye's head.
• Deep-dive into Wayne’s bedside reading material (Helter Skelter, "Gun **** Manifesto"); jokes about white elephant Nazi parties.
• Debate on whether Faye’s GI distress from fake drugs will have narrative stakes.
• “Some people fall in love harder than others... Like wear an SS hat, get a swastika tramp stamp...” — Rob (34:35)

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9. Rue’s Emotional Arc: The Church Scene

Timestamps: 38:33–44:52

• Consensus: Zendaya delivers the episode’s richest material.
  • “Ru kind of like crying and smiling, leaning on the pew will be one of the visuals that I remember from this season.” — Rob (40:09)
• Camera techniques highlighted: Menacing approach behind Rue evokes doom.
• Oddity: Rue’s largely unseen phone conversation with her mom—which is later explained by production quirks.
• Thematic depth: Rue’s longing for redemption and a future; her inability to think beyond her old relationships (e.g., Jules).

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10. Drug Lord Gangland Drama: Laurie vs. Alamo

Timestamps: 44:52–49:20

• Standoff scene evokes The Searchers, but both hosts find the Laurie-Alamo dynamic underdeveloped.
  • “All I felt was like, there's a lot of Rue in this episode, and... I am wildly uninterested in watching her be the passenger of somebody else's [plot].” — Joanna (48:00)
• Rob: The season is weak when it leans too hard on new antagonists at the expense of its more compelling leads.

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11. Structure, Pacing, and General Critique

Timestamps: 49:21–55:00

• Joanna: "Maybe my least favorite episode of the season so far.” (49:21)
• Rob: Feels the episode is sprawling and unfocused, only elevated by Zendaya’s performance.
• Both want more streamlined, character-forward storytelling, less time spent on meandering or backburner storylines.
• Rob’s final shout-out: Alexander the Locksmith and the comedic value of eccentric services.

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Notable Quotes

• “Let’s all just walk into the burning Joshua Tree together.” — Rob Mahoney (03:40)
• “I would have loved to see more of that... internality from [Danielle Deadwyler’s] character. Instead, she’s just kind of a one note temptress...” — Rob (23:14)
• “If you name your kid Alamo, he’s gonna wear a raccoon skin hat at some point. That’s just a given.” — Rob (24:45)
• “Workers unite moment for Maddy... What are the, you know, the labor laws inside of Circle?” — Joanna (25:19)
• “I just think they both need therapy, but it can also be art.” — Rob (27:09)
• “I think really the show still relies on having one... crucial counterpoint in every scene... Rue is one of them and Maddie is one of them.” — Rob (49:04)

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Memorable Moments & Segments (with Timestamps)

• Rue Dead Fan Theory: 05:11–07:35
• Jules’s Painting & Absence: 11:51–12:27
• Cassie’s Contract Shenanigans: 15:17–16:55
• “Chekhov’s Snake” Analysis: 31:18–32:31
• SS Hat on Faye: 34:16–34:53
• Zendaya’s Rue at Church: 39:06–41:33

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Listener Mail & Pop Culture Shoutouts

• Religious professor corrects Maddy’s misquoted scripture (14:45–15:16).
• Long-running callback: Listeners clamor for new Widow’s Bay coverage, with Joanna providing updates on spinoff episodes (04:19–04:58).
• “Vince Lombardi” quote in LA Knights writer’s room (28:53).

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Final Thoughts & Predictions

• Both hosts are eager, yet apprehensive, about how Euphoria will wrap its various plotlines and character arcs, especially given the set-up for “big moves” in the supersized finale.
• Ongoing questions include: Will Rue survive (literally and metaphorically)? What is the endgame for the Laurie-Alamo feud? Will the snake mean something after all?
• Joanna and Rob end with signature tongue-in-cheek banter, teasing a possible live finale recording and developing a new “Dexter, but with locksmiths” pitch.

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For deeper, week-by-week analysis and the full force of Joanna and Rob’s pop culture chemistry, catch The Prestige TV Podcast on your platform of choice.

Transcript

[Rob Mahoney]

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[Podcast Guest or Host]

Hello.

[Joanna Robinson]

Welcome back to Prestige TV Podcast Feed. I'm Joanna Robinson.

[Rob Mahoney]

I am Rob Mahoney.

[Joanna Robinson]

It's another Euphoria Sunday here at Sycamore Studios. Rob, how are you feeling?

[Rob Mahoney]

Loopier than ever, I guess. Loopier is regular. As is now our custom on Sundays,

[Joanna Robinson]

we only have two more of these to go and one of them is the finale. A super sized finale.

[Rob Mahoney]

Kind of bizarre to think about, I would say, especially given where some of the characters are right now. But with the super sized finale, there's probably a lot of ground we can cover.

[Joanna Robinson]

I was thinking about that a lot because I just, as you know, I was at a Starz event for the Outlander finale on Friday and then the boys finale is hitting this upcoming week and so there's just like a lot of conversation right now about finales of long running, huge fandom, contentious fandom shows, stuff like that.

[Rob Mahoney]

How's it going on the boys?

[Joanna Robinson]

It's hotly contested.

[Rob Mahoney]

I would say that seems generous based on what I've seen.

[Joanna Robinson]

I'm interested to see how it all wraps up. Outlander has the sort of burden of expectation of like books hanging around it, but I actually think a lot of the fandom was pretty happy with how Outlander wrapped up. But I was thinking about that and I was thinking about euphoria and I'm like, I don't think euphoria. Euphoria is sort of like blissfully free of some of those expectations, right? Because I don't think there's. I don't know when I've been covering a show for a long time and we're coming up on the finale. I get really sort of tense and agitated thinking about not just how am I gonna enjoy it, but like, what is the fandom backlash gonna be? Because there's usually this era of sort of like mourning of like, I've been with this show for so many years. I've been invested in these characters. It's never gonna end in a way that I'm gonna be satisfied with. But I feel like the euphoria fandom is free from that because there's been so many stret. And even though the show has been on for, I don't know, six or seven years or whatever, it's not like people have been tuning in every year and spending time with these characters. And then also there is just the fact that season three is just another animal, another python altogether than the previous seasons and the specials. And so I'm not getting that sense of there's no winning here at the end of euphoria, as there is often the case with some of these other shows.

[Rob Mahoney]

I mean, there's just not as much guessing at like, how does it all end, period.

[Joanna Robinson]

Right.

[Rob Mahoney]

I think because it's such a loose, amorphous thing, especially in this season, as you mentioned. But I mean, fans of this show do feel very strongly about it.

[Joanna Robinson]

Absolutely.

[Rob Mahoney]

I do think that we have filtered to a point where if you're down for this, you're still here. And if you're not, you've already ejected like many episodes, if not seasons ago. So, you know, let's all just walk into the burning Joshua tree together.

[Joanna Robinson]

Though I do know a couple people, and not just our colleague Andy Greenwald who are like tuning in this season who had not watched it previously. Just cause the conversation is so loud around it. It's sort of like Survivor 50. You can't avoid it. Rob has to hear us talk about it a lot at the end.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yet I avoid it in every other respect of my life.

[Joanna Robinson]

But you know the name of some players.

[Rob Mahoney]

I gotta say I don't.

[Joanna Robinson]

I think you do.

[Rob Mahoney]

I zone out. Or maybe just like tap into my Cassie style PTSD during those moments and just check out.

[Joanna Robinson]

It's like me to recall the names of basketball players sometimes. But you're not gonna remember the name of Saree Survivor legend Siree Joe.

[Rob Mahoney]

I never put those expectations on you. That is you putting those expectations on yourself.

[Joanna Robinson]

Anyway, here's the point. You can reach [e-mail] always Maddie's number one boymail.com. we got a handful of emails in the interim between when the episode ended and when we started this recording. A lot of the emails we're getting recently are, dear God, where's your next Widow's Bay episode? We got great news for you. We already recorded it. It's coming out next week. This week?

[Rob Mahoney]

In several days.

[Joanna Robinson]

In a few days. Covering two episodes, episodes four and five. We did an episode of Skins UK coverage last week, and in two weeks, we're doing a Friday Night Lights episode retrospective. Retrospective, yes. So that's what's going on. There's a lot going on.

[Rob Mahoney]

That's a, you know, a wide swath of content for the people.

[Joanna Robinson]

It really is. But Widow's Bay will be coming back from us, I promise you. You do not have to worry. You do not have to hex anyone. It is happening. Don't worry.

[Rob Mahoney]

Should they still hex somebody?

[Joanna Robinson]

Probably. Mailbag. Let's do it. Katherine emailed us right after the episode ended with a theory that I'm already seeing catching fire across the Internet.

[Rob Mahoney]

Okay.

[Joanna Robinson]

Is Rue already dead?

[Rob Mahoney]

I mean, to be fair, hasn't this theory already caught fire for every show since the dawn of time?

[Joanna Robinson]

But let's engage.

[Rob Mahoney]

So when is it purported that Rue died?

[Joanna Robinson]

Car crash.

[Rob Mahoney]

Oh, here?

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Rob Mahoney]

Oh. So not previously car crash, Not Polo mallet, Not any of her previous potential overdoses? No, this was when she died.

[Joanna Robinson]

Did she die swerving off the road? And is the burning Joshua Tree a sort of signal of her death? We do see her, obviously, in the trailer for next week's episode. But, like, is she dead?

[Rob Mahoney]

I'm gonna say.

[Joanna Robinson]

Would that be interesting?

[Rob Mahoney]

I think it could be interesting. It depends on what you do with it. Right. And how you choose to manifest all of the plotlines that would result. I think that's where you get into trouble with something like Rue dying. You would still have to show us all the other characters, either in her head or afterlife fugue state or not. And so what are you going to do with those sequences? And how true to the actual events of life would those be?

[Joanna Robinson]

I don't think she's dead, but I was just trying to figure out if I thought it was interesting if she would be dead. And certainly inside of this episode, when you get Lexi and Gideon Adlin, who probably has a character name, but.

[Rob Mahoney]

Gilly.

[Joanna Robinson]

Gilly. There you go. Lexi and Gilly sitting down with some, like, two old pals, budget sangria in the courtyard there and talking about killing off characters. You have to kill off characters or else it's just talking, talking, talking, Right. So that's sort of hanging over everything. And then there's just like. I never felt more certain that Rue was not gonna make it out of the season alive than talking about wanting to have kids in the church scene, talking about wanting to come home, even though it does appear some spoilers for the episode 7 trailer if you care that she is home in next week's episode. But is she home or is she dead? I don't know. These are just questions I'm asking of a Sunday evening. But the question I was asking myself as I was thinking, like, are they really gonna kill Rue? Are they gonna kill Rue? Is that what's gonna happen? They can't do it too early because as much as this has kind of become like the Sydney Sweeney Cassie show to a certain degree. Can you have two more episodes of Euphoria without Rue's story?

[Rob Mahoney]

It's one of the most repulsive things happening this season. So, you know, safe robberies and all. Like, it's just setting up a lot of narrative juice where I think it'd be hard to separate from that even if you want to explore it in a post death state. But I mean, how would you feel about these last two episodes culminating in all of these perhaps disparate characters following their own narrative arcs to fulfillment at like a mystical church like location and congregating together in a controversial finale?

[Joanna Robinson]

Is Michael Giacchino available to make me cry with some piano? It's a good question. Lost a finale. I defend you always. Daniella wrote in before this episode aired. But I was actually thinking about this a lot during the Rue and Jewel scene. Daniela wrote in to say about this question we posed last week about objective versus subjective seasons of the show. And Daniella wrote, yes, there are dream sequences this season, but those sorts of abstract moments and those sort of abstract moments. But a way in which you can see the objective versus objective side of the season three is Rue's relationship with Jules. In season one or two, we would have seen a romanticized version via Rue. There were a lot of drug induced romanticizations of the relationships from Rue, but now she can't even get up and kiss her. So follow up on that. I was thinking about that exactly. Actually, before I even read Daniela's email in the Rue and Jewel scene, when Jewel's like, are you kidding me? Like, are you being serious right now? And I was like, yeah, I think we were meant to read between the lines of Rue's romanticism in the previous seasons. And we certainly got Some scenes alone with Jules, especially with Dominic Fike's character in season two where she was raising some questions about this relationship. But I don't think we would have gotten such a stark version of this reality check if we were still so much inside of Rue's fantasy. The Redditors seem pretty down on Jules slapping Roux, but I was sort of like, I don't know. I hate what's happening with Jules's season. Yeah, I don't. I don't like that. And we can talk about that. But in terms of, like, Rue getting in in Jules face and telling her her entire life is horrible after everything that Rue has put Jules through with her life decision.

[Rob Mahoney]

Right.

[Joanna Robinson]

I was like, yeah, slapper. Like, why not? I care about Rue. But in that moment, I didn't think Jules slapping her was, like, so out of pocket.

[Rob Mahoney]

I had no problem with it. My problems are more with, I would say the whiplash, not just from that sort of subjective narrativization of earlier seasons, which I agree with you, kind of tracks here in the way both these characters are acting. But coming off of last week where Jules was imploring Rue to want something, to go after something, and specifically her, and then Rue kind of does it, and maybe in a way Jules doesn't want, and that's not the right answer.

[Joanna Robinson]

You know what's so weird, and I wonder if something was cut, is from the context of their conversation here, it almost sounded like they did have some sort of, like, intensive sexual interaction.

[Rob Mahoney]

Oh, they did. That's why Rue's boxers were in the room, you know?

[Joanna Robinson]

Oh, I guess so.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

I just thought she was just, like, changing.

[Rob Mahoney]

This isn't that show.

[Joanna Robinson]

Why don't we get to see it? You know, I mean, they did play

[Rob Mahoney]

with it in the cut you're talking about where it's Ellis there instead of you're expecting Rue to be there.

[Joanna Robinson]

So she's challenging Rue to, like, do something about it. Rue does something about it. We don't get to see it. Fine. We get to see plenty of other things, but not ruin Jules having sex. Okay, fine. And then Jules is like, that didn't. You did the thing that I asked you to. And it doesn't really mean much to me.

[Rob Mahoney]

You did that thing that I asked you to. And also, all of this is in your head. Like our whole relationship, this imaginary version of it is in your head, which it kind of has been. But also last week, we were all there when she was literally saying these things, and then they literally fucked afterwards. So I don't know what to make

[Joanna Robinson]

of all that allegedly show, don't tell euphoria. I think that Rue talking about wanting to have kids, like, needing something outside of herself and wanting to have kids. I'm just like, this is not the way.

[Rob Mahoney]

There are many different reasons for people not to have kids. Reasons you should not have as a father of children. I am a father, famously, and recently, I would say, ruin habits. Like, maybe 50 different reasons not to have kids. So it is incredibly rich. I get Jules's frustration with all that. It's just that the rest of it

[Joanna Robinson]

is the one thing I want to say. And I think that Jules plotline this season has been frustrating for us just because we really like Jules a lot and we love Hunter Schaeffer very much. So I am finding I am enjoying the painting sequences because these are live painting sequences. We were watching Hunter Schaeffer, the artist, and this is something that Sam Levinson talked about where he's like, I love Hunter as an artist. Hunter doesn't really practice her art. And so I kind of made her do it by doing these live painting scenes. And we've seen several of them, and I think her art is really interesting

[Rob Mahoney]

and cool, evocative and gorgeous.

[Joanna Robinson]

Not just the, you know, Dick Laydon Seurat like that, but also that. But, you know, it all has a distinctive style to it, and it's really fun to watch her process. And so I just. I enjoy that aspect while being frustrated by a lot of the absence of Jules and the only person served less by this episode. Well, Maddie. An underwhelming Maddie episode, especially given the, like, the promise of the trailer for this episode was like a big Mattie Alamo showdown, except they showed the entirety of it in the trailer, so we had already seen whatever their conversation was. Plus, she's the thumbnail photo of this episode. So I was like, oh, we're gonna get a real Maddie episode. And we did not. And then Nate, which is just sort of like. I would almost rather not cut to Nate at all in an episode than just sort of, like, run this tape back again and again, you know?

[Rob Mahoney]

I mean, all he has done this season is embarrass himself in front of the zoning council and lose a finger in a toe. Yeah, get his ass beat. I mean, I would say in terms of the flowers themselves, just. I mean, we are reaching Little Shop of Horrors level of, like, getting fucking, like, dominated by a plant.

[Joanna Robinson]

Are you trying to placate me by making a musicals reference right now?

[Rob Mahoney]

No.

[Joanna Robinson]

After you ticked me off on Friday With a musicals argument.

[Rob Mahoney]

I mean, if you want to revisit, why west side Story, the remake, the Spielberg remake, is in fact quite good. I'm happy to do it here on mic. But also, if you want to defer, that's fine.

[Joanna Robinson]

Rob just wants to defend Ansel Elgort, his favorite actor.

[Rob Mahoney]

Not the case.

[Joanna Robinson]

I think that Nate is a real miss for me. Though I will say I have enjoyed the conversation where a lot of people point out, like, hey, man, Nate was free and easy with a gun in season two. Why doesn't he have a gun? Why isn't he defending himself? And I like the pushback that I've seen on the Internet that, yes, of course Nate would use a gun to intimidate a teenage girl, but just sort of crumple in the face of real criminals. I don't find that contradictory at all.

[Rob Mahoney]

Completely adds up. Yeah, it's just he's not adding anything to the story. These scenes aren't interesting visually. Like, they're not. They're just not contributing anything to the flow of the season. Granted, we are clearly laying gunpowder so that when he now collides back with Cassie's part of the story, something goes up in smoke. I just don't really know how that's all gonna pay off In a way that makes this feel worth it.

[Joanna Robinson]

Look at you. Gunpowder and smoke. Just weaving your narrative here. Our listener Tom wrote in with a. Well, actually, for Mattie's Jesus from last week's episode.

[Rob Mahoney]

First of all, how dare they?

[Joanna Robinson]

Maddie said, Jesus says, be in the world, not of the world. And Tom, who is a religious professor, wrote to say that's actually a notion from the Muslim esoteric mystic sect known as Sufis. I haven't watched any further before writing this, so if someone corrects her, please disregard. But no one did. So Tom's here to correct Maddie.

[Rob Mahoney]

I trust Maddie.

[Joanna Robinson]

Oh, God. For a professor, you know? All right, on. On the contract watch front, which we raised last week. And your hope was that Cassie just never turned in her Drill House contract. A lot of our listeners pointed out that Cassie signed each contract with a different name that she signed. Cassie Howard, her maiden name to the Hype house or the Drill House contract, and Cassie Jacobs, her married name to Maddie's contract. So in terms of, like, if there is in the last two episodes of the show, some sort of legal battle

[Rob Mahoney]

in which Cassie represents herself in court.

[Joanna Robinson]

Oh, I. Legally Blonde style.

[Rob Mahoney]

The pink suit.

[Joanna Robinson]

Come on. Does it come down to whether or not one could get a perm wet at some Point. I think the Drill House contract, because it takes a while to change your name legally. It's. It's a. It's a pain in the ass.

[Rob Mahoney]

It is a pain in the ass

[Joanna Robinson]

and it takes a while. It doesn't happen just when you get married.

[Rob Mahoney]

So you're saying the Drill House contract to you would be the more authentic binding document.

[Joanna Robinson]

It's her legal name right now. Cassie Howard.

[Rob Mahoney]

That is true. I don't know how any of this works. I'm gonna be honest with you. Are you not allowed to put your maiden name on a document and still have it be binding even after your name is changed?

[Joanna Robinson]

I'm sure you can, but if the question comes down to between two betwixt, betwixt and never the twain shall meet betwixt the two. And we maybe cannot carbon date when exactly she signed the two, though we, the viewers at home know she signed the Drill House one first.

[Rob Mahoney]

We do.

[Joanna Robinson]

Would it come down to which one has her current legal name on it?

[Rob Mahoney]

This is where I have to defer to Cassie Howard, Slash Jacobs, attorney at law and what her interpretation is of the truth.

[Joanna Robinson]

Please email us maddy's number1boymail.com.

[Rob Mahoney]

If you're a legal expert, if you're

[Joanna Robinson]

a lawyer, I mean, Rob might just disregard you the way that he did just regarded a professor.

[Rob Mahoney]

What a religious scholar.

[Joanna Robinson]

That's all the emails I have. Anything else you want to say on a sort of mailbag front?

[Rob Mahoney]

Let's get into it. I don't even know where to begin with this episode.

[Joanna Robinson]

I do. The Bible, okay, episode six is called Stand still and see, which is from the Bible. The episode starts in the Alamo flashback, which we will get to in a second. When they attend church. Go down. Moses is the. You know, is the song that they're singing in church, right? So Moses gets sort of into the mix long before the Joshua Tree lights on fire. Betwixt the Joshua Tree fire and the church scene, a lot happens. This line, stand still and see comes from Exodus, which is Moses book, if you must know.

[Rob Mahoney]

I mean, that's the big thing before the tree, you know, they gotta exodize before they can see it, before they start getting divine messages.

[Joanna Robinson]

I was expecting standstill and see to be in reference to the burning bush, but it is not. Here's the quote. And Moses said to the people, do not be afraid, afraid. Stand still and see the salvation of the Lord, which he will accomplish for you today. For the Egyptians who you see today, you shall see again no more forever. The Lord will fight for you and you shall hold your peace. And so it is right before the parting of the Red Sea.

[Rob Mahoney]

Right.

[Joanna Robinson]

So this is not burning bush time. This is parting the Red Sea time. The part from the Bible that Roux is listening to, narrated by Michael York in the car, is from Genesis. And God saw the wickedness of the man was great in the earth and that every imagination or thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. This happens right before sending the flood. So these are two water based Bible moments. Floods and parting of the of the Red Sea.

[Rob Mahoney]

Quick pause before we go deeper. You're telling me Rue's still on Genesis?

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Rob Mahoney]

She hasn't made it out of Genesis yet.

[Joanna Robinson]

No.

[Rob Mahoney]

There's a lot of book left. There's a lot of game to do

[Joanna Robinson]

that she's said Noah. She's gotten to Noah.

[Rob Mahoney]

Well, clearly we knew that she wasn't a Jesus. You know, there's a lot to go between now and voicing Noah in this

[Joanna Robinson]

all star cast recording of the Bible. If there's a wipe it all out scenario coming for Euphoria, who's the Noah who gets to survive?

[Rob Mahoney]

Oh, man. Sydney Sweeney.

[Joanna Robinson]

Team Lexi of the Howard Knives.

[Rob Mahoney]

I'm not saying who should. I'm saying if there were.

[Joanna Robinson]

Who's the cockroach?

[Rob Mahoney]

If there was a flood event and Euphoria gets rebooted around one character, I don't see it, based on everything we've seen this season, how it wouldn't be Cassie.

[Joanna Robinson]

I think it should be Maddie. How dare you not nominate your girl?

[Rob Mahoney]

I'm not saying what I want. I'm saying what I believe to be true. This is my standstill scene moment. You know, like I'm. I am believing in the vision of the show that has been laid before me. And that is, unfortunately for me, not a Matty Forward show all the time.

[Joanna Robinson]

But in terms of like, who's likely to come back from For a Euphoria season four, is it Sydney Sweeney or is it Alexa Dental?

[Rob Mahoney]

I don't know why Alexa Demi isn't in everything. So clearly there is a mystical power in the universe I don't comprehend.

[Joanna Robinson]

Stand still and see Rob.

[Rob Mahoney]

But Sydney Sweeney does feel like she's so game for this show. She feels more involved and more invested in the Greater Euphoria project than basically any other performer on screen. So I think she probably would if it were to continue on.

[Joanna Robinson]

She is one of the few actors giving interviews after the credits roll on the episodes that. That's true. Okay, if you have a different nominee for the Noah of the Mass flood event that might come for euphoria. Prestige [e-mail] Alamo Cold Open Danielle Deadweiler. I have some notes. This is not what I want Danielle Deadweiler doing. And like, I don't mind the idea of this cold open because, you know, we enjoyed the sort of flashback to people's characters, childhoods that we got in previous seasons. We really, really liked that.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yes.

[Joanna Robinson]

Cassie one was really good. The Nate one was really good. Like they're all. All of really cow. I love the cow one. The cow one really got to me. Episode two starts. Season two, starts with like this Fez's grandma flashback sequence. So in terms of like Sam Levinson wanting to make like a sort of 70s exploitation style sequence, he's already done that in season two. And I actually really quite liked that with the introduction of ashtray and all that sort of stuff like that. This, I don't feel like, taught me anything about Alamo other than to quote someone on Reddit, his mom was a bitch who played him and he made sure he never got played by a bitch again. That's like.

[Rob Mahoney]

I don't think that's quoting. Right. That's literally quoting the episode.

[Joanna Robinson]

Right. So, like. Well, the second part is so, like. So did you feel like this deepened the character? How did you feel about it?

[Rob Mahoney]

Not exactly. Cause I would say the only thing it really deepened about Alamo is this idea of all the times we've seen him within the season, within this episode, just go from 0 to 100 at the idea of getting played by somebody. I would just argue that most drug dealers are probably that way to begin with. Or arms dealers or people work in any kind of criminal underground.

[Joanna Robinson]

They don't need an Oedipal sort of romantic.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah, you don't want to be made the fool of. Does he need a mommy issues complex that then leads him to put an imitation of his mom's own leg on top of his strip club to resolve something. I'm sure he doesn't need to work it out. I'm sure it's fine. I don't know that we entirely needed that.

[Joanna Robinson]

That sounds therapeutic. It sounds like a nice arts and crafts project. Right? You just really process your issues through mass papier mache.

[Rob Mahoney]

I was about to say, I think he hand sculpted it.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Rob Mahoney]

But I'm with you on Danielle Deadweiler, too. She is.

[Joanna Robinson]

I love her so much.

[Rob Mahoney]

I have immense respect for her as a performer. And I would say specifically the tempestuous characters that she could play where they just have all of this internal something and you're trying to figure out what the hell is going on. I mean, we do remember damage on this show. You know, this is who we are. But like, I would have loved to see more of that kind of internality from her character. And instead she's like, look, it's an interesting framing of a story, right, of this idea of the long con that she's playing. But the way it manifests is she's just kind of like a one note temptress who's here to like a la carte her life. Like, I want the money from this guy and I want to live with this guy and I want to live in that city and to hell with my son and what he wants.

[Joanna Robinson]

Something that we've noted that Sam Levinson does and sometimes to great effect and sometimes, you know, less so or whatever is he's a great borrower of other texts. And what is true about this story, Alamo's backstory, It is pretty closely airlifted from the book Pimp by Iceberg Slim, which is like an autobiography of a pimp. And then this is like the story of his childhood that his mom liked was with a God fearing man who treated her well and stuff like that. And then she. And the only time in his life when Iceberg Slim was happy and then she like ripped him away into an abusive relationship and stuff like that. So that is seemingly the inspo. And I think I believe Sam Levinson mentions at least Iceberg Slim in the post credits sort of discussion. So there is that nod to where he lifted it from. I really wanted to like this more. I just think Danielle Dudweiler is so talented and this is just not, you know, what I would use her for personally.

[Rob Mahoney]

It's like fine enough. But again, did not transform the story or the characters in the way that some of the other flashbacks did. And frankly, I'm not sure I ever quite recovered from the fact that his given name is actually Alamo.

[Joanna Robinson]

Even as a Texas guy, have you never met an Alamo?

[Rob Mahoney]

Never met a single Alamo.

[Joanna Robinson]

Okay.

[Rob Mahoney]

It doesn't strike me as a thing

[Joanna Robinson]

you would do name a child Alamo.

[Rob Mahoney]

I guess somebody did.

[Joanna Robinson]

Memorable, at least clearly.

[Rob Mahoney]

And we talked earlier this season about like, did he concoct it just so he could do, remember the Alamo style gags like he literally did in the season. But I guess it was just in the stars for him the whole time.

[Joanna Robinson]

Right. But he was always loved cowboys. And there's a lot of like, there's

[Rob Mahoney]

a. Yeah, well, that's nominatively deterministic, for sure. If you name your kid Alamo, like, he's gonna wear a. Like a raccoon skin hat on his head at some point. That's just a given, I guess.

[Joanna Robinson]

So, Matty in the club, what do you want to say about it?

[Rob Mahoney]

This is one where I would have almost preferred us having a conversation about this scene, not having access to the post game interview clips from the cast. Cause the way Alexa Demi talks about this scene as like, women coming together in their power. Yeah, that was news to me.

[Joanna Robinson]

Sure.

[Rob Mahoney]

Was that apparent to you in the execution of what this scene was?

[Joanna Robinson]

I thought we were just doing a cool workers unite moment for Maddie. She's like, workers rights. They deserve time off. What are the, you know, the labor laws inside of circle?

[Rob Mahoney]

I guess that is women coming together. You know, she's standing up.

[Joanna Robinson]

Sure.

[Rob Mahoney]

But the rest of it is a

[Joanna Robinson]

fun, girly link up is how Alexa Demme described.

[Rob Mahoney]

I guess it's some of that. It's like, you know, this is a club that's in need of art direction as it relates to turning it into an Instagram bubble presence. Maddie has a vision. It is saloon doors and I guess like a Coyote Ugly kind of aesthetic. I could see it playing online. I just don't know that this was like the girl power moment that was suggested in the. In the commentary.

[Joanna Robinson]

Do you wish they had gotten Piper Perab, star of Coyote Ugly, to be in season three of Euphoria?

[Rob Mahoney]

Do you think she's available?

[Joanna Robinson]

I think she's quite available.

[Rob Mahoney]

Well, then why not?

[Joanna Robinson]

They did get Sharon Stone. Sharon Stone is here. Cassie on the set of LA Knights. And Lexi's issue with that, despite the fact that she memorized all of her lines very closely, was quite triggered by this honeymoon phrase, even though presumably it was in her set.

[Rob Mahoney]

It's in the script.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah, but she gets triggered. She doesn't know what's real and what's not. And she starts, you know, disassociating to a certain degree and improvising. Dylan Reed, Shout out Homer Gere. Like, him improvising with her was genuinely, I thought, one of the funniest moments of the whole episode.

[Rob Mahoney]

Joe, no woman deserves to get hit.

[Joanna Robinson]

How profound. How brave. What a brave moment.

[Rob Mahoney]

I actually did find Dylan to be quite a generous scene partner. You know, he really rolled with the punches. He really invested in Cassie's story. And I want to give Cassie due credit. You know, like tapping into something deep and dark and unresolved. Is that not just great acting? Is that not the stuff that great performance is made of.

[Joanna Robinson]

Okay, so it's art when Cassie does it. When Alamo crafts a giant paper mache replica of his mom's dad, that's also art. Okay, just make it.

[Rob Mahoney]

I just think they both need therapy, but it can also be art.

[Joanna Robinson]

Everyone on Euphoria needs therapy. Shout out to Oceana, the George Seurat of the LA soaps. So we love to see her here. Lexi. I do not blame her for calling Cassie out in front of Sharon Stone. What has Cassie ever done for Lexi in her entire life? Nothing. So why should Lexi support Cassie in any kind of way?

[Rob Mahoney]

I just thought this was the kind of pod where women support women. I thought we just established that. Is that not what we're doing here?

[Joanna Robinson]

I support Lexi.

[Rob Mahoney]

I did think the bar has been quite low for Lexi this season. I thought this was among the better Lexi stuff that we've gotten, both in terms of having actual things to do and also just like the pure disappointment on Maud Apatow's face when Cassie does strike the deal to become a regular. Yeah, there's just some great physical acting. I think overall, the idea of Lexi fighting for something this hard and maybe not quite understanding the opportunity that is in front of her to leverage Cassie as much as Cassie leverages her is like a little blind to circumstance in a way that I wouldn't expect of Lexi. But here we are.

[Joanna Robinson]

That is an email that we got from front of the pod Matt Medovich, who was like, why isn't Lexi using Cassie here to boost her career?

[Rob Mahoney]

It turns out that she does.

[Joanna Robinson]

She will be in the writers room. I did not freeze frame Mahoney my way through all of the post IT notes that were up on the breakout board. But behind Lexi in the writers room scene, there is a quote from Green Bay packers head coach Vince Lombardi, who I did know was a sports guy. And the quote is this. There is no room for second place. There is only one place in my game, and that's first place. So a profound Lombardiism is on the one wall of this writers room.

[Rob Mahoney]

LA Knights.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Rob Mahoney]

What is the first place they're striving

[Joanna Robinson]

for in the ratings? I guess first place in provocative entertainment.

[Rob Mahoney]

Well, that's already settled. Euphoria's got it, baby.

[Joanna Robinson]

First place in George Surratt mentions in an la.

[Rob Mahoney]

So also tough competition.

[Joanna Robinson]

What do you hope happens for this? Do you hope that Lexi writes a great episode of LA Knights that in which Cassie dies?

[Rob Mahoney]

I kind of do.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Rob Mahoney]

I would love to see that. I would love For Cassie to get a huge elaborate death scene, she has to act out like, you know, Babylon style in repetition over and over and over to increasing insanity. That is something I'd be interested in seeing.

[Joanna Robinson]

How much trouble trouble is Cassie in? She has deleted the OnlyFans accounts, which probably voids some like, agreement in the contract with Maddie, I would think, for sure.

[Rob Mahoney]

Or at minimum just the income stream that Maddie relies on.

[Joanna Robinson]

And that's. The other thing is like, you know, the, the finger in the box. Like what's in the box? It's a, it's. We knew it was a finger. It's a finger. Like she's not gonna make the kind of money she needs to make on LA Knights. Sorry, hate to break it to all you wannabe starlets out there, but she's not gonna be making onlyfans money as a, you know, bit player on LA Knights. So she's not gonna be bringing in the money she needs to be bringing in. She screwed over Maddie in some way

[Rob Mahoney]

that historically has gone very well for her.

[Joanna Robinson]

You know, how's it gonna pan out? Rob, do you have any predictions?

[Rob Mahoney]

I mean, I don't think it's an accident that in the big Coyote Ugly photo shoot, it is Cassie with the snake posing, getting wrapped up, it sizing her up in its way. And her as a character in particular, who would be oblivious to basically everyone's actual motivations, would not shock me whatsoever if all of this was just like Matty playing with Cassie in the first place. And as soon as she is angered, becomes a whole different beast as a result. Well.

[Joanna Robinson]

Cause Maddie, unlike Lexi, is like, I know what I can use this woman for. Interesting.

[Rob Mahoney]

And Cassie has welcomed Maddy into her symbolic bed. I don't know how far can we twist this thing?

[Joanna Robinson]

It's a great question. The snake question is something that's interesting to me because I know I told you that I talked to some of the department heads and I was asking about the snake and I believe it was the production designer was telling me sort of it was someone's idea. Like the way the snake wound up on set was not sort of a big plot based reason. It was like somebody's idea.

[Rob Mahoney]

Okay.

[Joanna Robinson]

And so we've been calling it sort of Chekhov snake. Expecting that it's going to strangle or eat somebody.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yes.

[Joanna Robinson]

And then we get seemingly, and that's not to say that it wasn't placed on set. And then Sam Levinson's like, I know we'll have it strangle or eat somebody. And certainly he and Sam Levinson told me that speech that Bishop gives in this episode was sort of written at the last moment. The speech about the dancer and the snake.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yes.

[Joanna Robinson]

And as we discussed before we started recording, that is a very famous urban legend story. The story of a python who refuses to eat. And then the vet's like, it's sizing you up to eat you, young lady, or whatever the case may be. So that is. That is just an urban legend that was turned into, I thought, like a pretty. I don't know, anything Bishop does. I have a feeling. So, like, whatever. But I don't know if this snake is going to be a plot payoff or just this metaphorical payoff that you're talking about here. Right.

[Rob Mahoney]

I think it's more the idea. And clearly there are characters all throughout the story who are working with weird motivations. I don't know if Rue is the rat or the snake or kind of both. Again, we've been circling around that all season. I have no idea which one at this point. The rat is dangled in front of

[Joanna Robinson]

her face or is she dead?

[Rob Mahoney]

She might be dead.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Rob Mahoney]

I simply don't believe it. But, you know, maybe it is a Jacob's Ladder scenario. Maybe that's something we have to investigate over the back part of the season.

[Joanna Robinson]

We love a Bardo. We're a big fan.

[Rob Mahoney]

Historically, we do.

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[Joanna Robinson]

areas the Faye and Wayne Love story

[Rob Mahoney]

that is what it is, isn't it?

[Joanna Robinson]

Just a charming love story for the ages. This is a fascinating thing, I will say. I think the second biggest laugh in the room when we were watching was when he plunked that the SS hat, that hat on her head.

[Rob Mahoney]

I think some people fall in love harder than others, Joe. But there's like wear an SS hat, get a swastika tramp stamp. Like that is a level of down horrendous that I don't think many people have ever experienced in their lives or will.

[Joanna Robinson]

Are you regretting that it's not swastika tramp?

[Rob Mahoney]

Stampmail.com it was right there for the taking.

[Joanna Robinson]

It really was.

[Rob Mahoney]

Actually. That one's probably taken

[Joanna Robinson]

tough. Really fucking tough. All right. We were looking closely at the various bedside reading material that Wayne has. He's got Helter Skelter, the book about Charles Manson. And then he has a book that we're not gonna say the full title

[Rob Mahoney]

of, nor should we.

[Joanna Robinson]

Gun Blank Manifesto, edited by Hollister Cop. You can ruin your own search history if you wanna look that up.

[Rob Mahoney]

Subtitle Entertainment for the Armed Sociopath I'm

[Joanna Robinson]

going to read this description.

[Rob Mahoney]

Even though we debated whether or not

[Joanna Robinson]

we should Gun Blank Manifesto was lovingly and sincerely devoted to guns, gunplay, gun culture, gun counterculture, gun rights, gun art, gun porn and ammo. It was also one of the most psychotically inspired literary creatures to emerge from the black lagoon of Xendom, training its sights on an open range of politically correct targets and combining irresponsibly over the top polemics with unapologetically incisive gonzo reportage for an effect that was as smart as it was funny, as it was irreverent. Does Wayne strike you as smart as it was funny, as it was irreverent kind of guy? Or do you think he just saw Gun and the slur that's below it on the book? And he was like, that's for me.

[Rob Mahoney]

I think it was probably that simple. Or maybe like a white elephant gift or something. But I also just wanna say, if you're responsible with the publication of this book, we here at the Prestige TV podcast give you full permission to use Joanna's full read of that blurb. In all of your promotional material. And frankly, I'd love to see it out in the world.

[Joanna Robinson]

And Rob would like to attend a Nazi white elephant party.

[Rob Mahoney]

Not what I said.

[Joanna Robinson]

All right, what do you want to say about Faye and Wayne that we have not already?

[Rob Mahoney]

I just like. Okay, first of all, I'm rooting for these crazy kids. I am not rooting for these crazy kids. First, I had a question.

[Joanna Robinson]

Sure.

[Rob Mahoney]

Did Rue not already tell everyone about Faye when she saw Faye's lips on the surveillance footage?

[Joanna Robinson]

I guess she hadn't, because that's when Alamo was like, shouldn't he have recognized the voices?

[Rob Mahoney]

I could be going crazy. But I thought I remembered a line at the end of the episode of, like, announcing her recognition of this person. Maybe not naming Faye, but, like, if you say, hey, I know who that is.

[Joanna Robinson]

Well, maybe she's like, I know her. She works for Laurie.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yes.

[Joanna Robinson]

And then to later say, she's Fae. I've got her number. I can emotionally blackmail her by mentioning our friend who's in prison and get her to do this for me. Despite her enchanting love story with a Nazi.

[Rob Mahoney]

Maybe it is enchanting. You know, they did watch Pretty Woman together. They have had some nice moments. He's quite a Nazi.

[Joanna Robinson]

Is anything going to come of the fact that these are fake drugs that they've stolen and caused Faye extreme gastrointestinal distress? She was just chugging the Pepto on the coffee table. Is that gonna come to fruition somehow?

[Rob Mahoney]

I think. Look, Faye clearly tried to warn him. Obviously, it has to come to fruition. And frankly, I would watch a whole spinoff episode or standalone Faye episode, in which she goes out in the world and is constantly trying to tell people the truth about things, but people don't take her seriously and leading into a bunch of Mr. Bean style theatrics as a result.

[Joanna Robinson]

Okay, so maybe Faye is your spinoff candidate. I was hoping you were asking for a Nazi gastrointestinal distress episode.

[Rob Mahoney]

Well, as we learned, Faye is only kind of a Nazi, Right? I guess that's a thing you can beat.

[Joanna Robinson]

Rob, I feel like once you've got the swastikas, turn it up.

[Rob Mahoney]

It's really a binary situation.

[Joanna Robinson]

You're really all in. There's no half swastikas.

[Rob Mahoney]

Joanna speaks from experience.

[Joanna Robinson]

Okay, great. What a great episode of podcast this is. Ru Zendaya. Guess what great actress.

[Rob Mahoney]

Also guess what. She's alive.

[Joanna Robinson]

Maybe.

[Rob Mahoney]

I guess. Maybe I spoke too soon. Maybe she was not killed by Polo Mallet.

[Joanna Robinson]

Presumably, she was not killed by Polo mallet. Though I did laugh when he, like, nudged her head at one point with the polo mallet. That was pretty great. Okay, listen, the elevator scene, the church scene, both the phone call with her mom and then just sort of the reflection afterwards. The comedy of her buried up to her neck on the phone was very

[Rob Mahoney]

funny on speaker phone. Good.

[Joanna Robinson]

Most importantly, sliding down in her. In her seat during the Laurie and Alamo confrontation with a real, like, ooh, like, face. All very good. Funny, emotional, all sorts of stuff like that. I was a little surprised by the fact that, like, when we were shown so much of that conversation Rue was having with her mom and just Rue's side of it, I was like, okay, they couldn't get Nika King back. I guess she's not gonna be in the season. But then she was there, so I was curious why they didn't show that after the episode. She said, I didn't know what Rue's side of the conversation was that I was supposed to be reacting to. I mean, clearly, and this is what a lot of the actors have said about the Season of Euphoria is they were only given their scenes or their sides from their scenes or whatever, so they were kept in the dark about the larger shape of the season. So I don't know, it just struck me as very odd to watch this, to watch Rue for almost all of this conversation, and then to switch to Leslie on the other side of the phone.

[Rob Mahoney]

Well, let's let me start with the conversation part first, because I want to give it due credit. I think, first of all, Ru kind of, like crying and smiling, leaning on the pew will be one of the visuals that I remember from this season. It's going to be one of the things that really jump out in my memory, in my grasp of what the season was and was about. I also think the conversation from Rue's side of it is shot beautifully, I think, immaculately well acted. As far as Zendaya's part of it,

[Joanna Robinson]

I think especially the part where the camera is sort of, like, coming up behind her, like, as if someone was like, there's just this menace to the camera coming up behind her, as if someone was gonna, like, walk in and just sort of, like, shoot her in the head in that church or something like that. And then it just, like, pulls around in front of her so there's no one walking up behind her, but there is just this sense of, like, menace and doom looming over Rue here at the end of the season, and especially

[Rob Mahoney]

as she goes through this speech, which I Do think hits quite hard about her need for redemption and salvation and kind of like the grasping at just the idea that a future could be ahead of her. All of that stuff, I think works really, really well. And then we get the pan to Leslie, who I was like, again, inexplicable. Why that's there? Cause if you're gonna show the one sided part of the conversation, Fez style, just do it right. Showing Leslie at the end to say one line and disappear. It felt almost as if the only reason she's there is so that later when Bishop threatens her mom, it's like, oh, we just saw her mom, right. Remember her?

[Joanna Robinson]

Interesting. What's interesting to me about that Bishop interaction is Alamo had already sort of dropped that threat in the previous episode when he was sort of describing Rue's home.

[Rob Mahoney]

Right.

[Joanna Robinson]

You know, in the diner scene with Maddy, he was just sort of like, I didn't grow up in a nice place. Like, Rue grew up on a cul de sac, like being very specific of like, I know where your family lives.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yes.

[Joanna Robinson]

So it's very. I mean, I guess I shouldn't be surprised by Rue's like, inability to hold on to the thing, but like, for Rue to be so sort of like shocked and appalled and dismayed that Bishop talked to her mom. I was like, Alma already intimated that this was happening, that your family was being threatened and stuff like that. Do you think in talking to Leslie, Bishop asked at any point have you been calling your daughter a ton? Because she's been taking calls from mom on her phone non stop. Do you think he's been like, hey, when's the last time you talked to Rue? She's doing really well. How much does Bishop know? I guess is the question we are always asking ourselves.

[Rob Mahoney]

I presume that that character knows a lot, all the time, and is kind of several moves ahead. Maybe not of the poker game, but of a lot of other things. And so, I mean, we kicked around the idea of like, could Bishop also be an informant? Right. And it's like, certainly, I think when he brings up her mom, you're meant to wonder that, like, is he alluding to the calls to her fake mom?

[Joanna Robinson]

I guess. But since he like sawed someone up and fed them to pigs in last week's episode, I'm kind of out on a secretly a DEA agent.

[Rob Mahoney]

But maybe how far did he, Donnie

[Joanna Robinson]

Brasco his way into this? I don't know.

[Rob Mahoney]

But maybe there's a third way where he is like plotting his way out with a big bag of money or whatever and playing to flip Alamo at the opportunistic time and knows kind of what Rue is up to more than he lets on.

[Joanna Robinson]

I'm glad you brought up the dea. I'm always glad when you bring up the dea, But I'm glad you brought up the dea, because that was another sort of, like, doom moment looming over the episode. When the DA Says, we're almost there. Stay sharp. I'm like, I don't think this is

[Rob Mahoney]

just way too many of those lines

[Joanna Robinson]

for Rue to go back to the church.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah, please.

[Joanna Robinson]

Which is what you wanted to talk about.

[Rob Mahoney]

I did think this was another interesting character beat for Rue, where she talks so much in this moment about starting over and the want for a new life. And that's kind of the theme of her conversation with Jules, too. But I think it's interesting that her imagination can kind of, like, only go so far as to want to start over by grabbing onto this person she grew up with in Jules. It's like her vision of a future is like, let me try to hold onto this one good thing. When I think what she needs more than anything is move the fuck away from all of these people and all of these places and start somewhere completely fresh. And I don't know that she's ever gonna get to that point.

[Joanna Robinson]

One of the things she was looking at in the church was the portable Ten Commandments that the family in Texas gave to her, and their address was scrawled on the bottom of the Ten Commandments. So is there a possibility that rather than dying or she's already dead, Rue goes and joins the sort of, like, Amish farm and, like, milks cows. At the end of the season, it

[Rob Mahoney]

did have a certain appeal.

[Joanna Robinson]

Switches places with the eldest daughter who wants to leave, and Drew's just like, I'm gonna be milking cows now.

[Rob Mahoney]

Well, first of all, we can't just, like, will that poor daughter into a life she couldn't begin to understand.

[Joanna Robinson]

Not what you want to be a drug.

[Rob Mahoney]

You're already in Brownsville. Just cross the border.

[Joanna Robinson]

You know, there's nothing more romantic than getting an SS hat dropped on top of your head and being told that you shouldn't be a mule anymore.

[Rob Mahoney]

He wants to take her away from this crazy life.

[Joanna Robinson]

What else do you want to say about Rue in this episode?

[Rob Mahoney]

Can we circle back to the larger Alamo Laurie standoff in which Rue is slinking into the couch and slowly evaporating? I had a bunch of different kind of sensations during, like, in watching this for One. I love the setup. I love the loading, the dramatic loading of the guns, the kind of mounting of their respective horses. There's a shot of Faye in the doorway as the Nazi, et cetera. All go off. It's like very. The searchers, like this silhouetted doorway shot. The. That is clearly evocative in that way. Then they get there and it's like everyone's like, you know, it's classic standoff kind of format. Ru is in the middle, everyone's holding their holsters. And I just could not escape the feeling that I do not understand what Laurie as a character is doing within this season, other than you need this narrative counter position. I just was so much more interested in Lori when she was the queen of her own little hill versus, like, a feuding warlord opposite Alamo. I mean, how have you felt about their dynamics?

[Joanna Robinson]

Well, don't you think you notorious, like, bird lover Rob Mahoney, just really miss that bird?

[Rob Mahoney]

I am pro bird special little guy. And anti snake.

[Joanna Robinson]

I wanna say, for the record, I'm really pro snake.

[Rob Mahoney]

You're pro snake?

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Rob Mahoney]

Would you sleep in the bed with the python?

[Joanna Robinson]

No.

[Rob Mahoney]

Then put your money where your mouth is.

[Joanna Robinson]

Would you sleep in a bed with a bird?

[Rob Mahoney]

Well, I don't trust the birds either. We've all been Hitchcocked too much. We simply can't.

[Joanna Robinson]

We had snakes as our classroom pets growing up. I really liked them. Like a garter snake, corn snakes, stuff like that.

[Rob Mahoney]

Nothing python level, but, you know, nothing that could suffocate you.

[Joanna Robinson]

Sure, Laurie? What is Laurie up to? Well, I was wondering if. When they raised a whole question about the ambulance operation, if that would cause a light bulb to go off over Rue's head about angel and what happened with Angel.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yep.

[Joanna Robinson]

You know, and Alamo's pretending that this is for, like, plastic surgery when we think it's for transporting organs.

[Rob Mahoney]

He's saying it's like it's the shepherd for bbls. You know, it's like, this is not how this works.

[Joanna Robinson]

But, like, Ruz remains clueless at the end of the day about what happened with. And that wasn't your question is, what's

[Rob Mahoney]

going on with Laurie? No, we can talk about Rue, too. I want to talk about all of it.

[Joanna Robinson]

Question is, what's going on with Laurie? And I don't know, because she does not seem to have the upper hand at any moment inside of this confrontation. You know, she robbed him, but they know she robbed him. And so, you know, I don't know. This whole feuding drug lord thing, it reminded Me a lot. When you and I were talking about Daredevil, when you came on House of R and you were talking about the use of Jessica Jones in a certain scene, and you were, like, frustrated that Jessica Jones, the character was being used as dull exposition machine. And Matthew Lillard, we love him, but was getting to do all the quipping. And that's how I felt about watching Zendaya in that scene, as a passenger, in that scene between Laurie and Alamo, like, was her slinking down the couch, which. With her, like, expression. Very funny. Yes. But I was like, there's a lot of Rue in this episode, and there's a lot of great character, chewy character stuff. The Church stuff is really good. The Jewel stuff is good. But I was like, but I am wildly uninterested in watching her be the passenger of somebody else's. Someone else is driving the action inside of the Alamo and Laurie feud, and Rue is just sort of caught up in the middle of it again and again and again. And that is not what I want for Rue as a character.

[Rob Mahoney]

Well, I think there's also the acknowledgement, too, that all of that stuff can be true. And yet, narratively, you understand why Rue kind of benefits from being in the background. Like, she is taping this conversation. She's, like, trying to be invisible.

[Joanna Robinson]

Totally.

[Rob Mahoney]

But is it interesting to watch one of the most interesting characters, one of the best and most well rounded characters on the show, subsumed by these other two people who just don't hold the screen as well?

[Joanna Robinson]

And there have been other times where Rue, as a character, as the sort of, like, observer, narrator type of character, has watched, like, Cassie and Mattie or, you know, whatever the case may be. But that was like, we were all just sort of riveted to what was going on there. And the Alamo and Laurie stuff has not been as nearly as successful for me.

[Rob Mahoney]

I don't think so. I think really the show still relies on having one of a couple characters as a crucial counterpoint in every scene that really, like, grabs you. And Rue is one of them and Matty is one of them. And I think maybe even at times, Cassie can be one of them.

[Joanna Robinson]

Definitely is one of them, you know,

[Rob Mahoney]

but having really the heavyweight moment of this feel like it's Laurie and Alamo, I just don't think Alamo has been built up as a character to warrant that, even with the flashback in this episode. And I don't think Laurie ever was that or that was ever her best purpose within this story.

[Joanna Robinson]

Right.

[Podcast Guest or Host]

This.

[Joanna Robinson]

We haven't really given our sort of, like, broad strokes thoughts on this episode. I think this is maybe my least favorite episode of the season so far.

[Rob Mahoney]

It's just so unwieldy, and it is all over the place. And to the extent that it hits for me at all, I think it's mostly Zendaya oriented stuff. I agree those things are so good, I'm compelled to hold them tightly. But the rest of it is sprawling. Not necessarily in a great way.

[Joanna Robinson]

Right. Like, even, like, the Cassie stuff in last week's episode was audaciously fun in a way. Like, even if it wasn't my favorite thing that I'd seen, I was just sort of like, they really went for something. They really did something. And here I don't even have that sort of juice to enjoy. But Zendaya, the Rue stuff in the church, I'm hoping, you know, next week we get more stuff with her mom. All of that stuff is really good.

[Rob Mahoney]

And this is one area where the need to have kind of these backburner storylines, I think works against the show a little bit. Right. We already talked about how we kind of would prefer that you don't even get the Nate check in within this episode. It doesn't really offer anything to the structure of the story other than remind us that he's still out there being threatened by henchmen. But if you take him out, then you kind of lose sight of him for a moment in the story.

[Joanna Robinson]

You don't need to, because his finger is there.

[Rob Mahoney]

I mean, that is true.

[Joanna Robinson]

His finger shows up in a box and you're like, oh, yeah, Nate, he's in literal physical danger.

[Rob Mahoney]

But I think you could say that about four or five scenes in this episode where it's just. If you just kind of streamlined it and focused it even more on what's working, I think it wouldn't feel quite this way.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah. Anything else you want to say about this episode?

[Rob Mahoney]

I guess I do want to talk about what the plans are here because I'm a little confused at what's being established between these various gangs on what they're trying to accomplish. We have Laurie's pitch, right? Which is that she wants Alamo and Company. Really? Ru is kind of the one who's deputized. She wants deputies to do it, to drive the ambulance for, like, one last big run with all these drugs. Right. Like, that's the plan that is pitched. Alamo feels compelled to do it because he wants to get all his stuff back.

[Joanna Robinson]

Lori, who gave Rue a suitcase full of drugs, and that went very poorly is like, I know, let's give her an ambulance full of drugs, and that'll be fine.

[Rob Mahoney]

Well, the only reason I'm a little more lenient on that perspective is that we get this illusion by the Nazi dude to Faye that they're, like, about to pull over. One big thing on Alamo, and he doesn't see it coming.

[Joanna Robinson]

Mm.

[Rob Mahoney]

Do we have any inclination, as far as, like, what that is within this

[Joanna Robinson]

plan to take the truck full of drugs and not share it with him in any way?

[Rob Mahoney]

But aren't they not intending to share with him?

[Joanna Robinson]

I think they are intending to share it with him. There has to be some sort of split, otherwise why would he.

[Rob Mahoney]

Well, I thought the split was, you get your stuff that we already stole from you back.

[Joanna Robinson]

Right.

[Rob Mahoney]

You get your money, so you get your stuff back. We get all these new drugs hustled across the border. In theory, everyone wins because we're basically holding you hostage for your own drugs, which, as we said, are not drugs.

[Joanna Robinson]

Our luck, among other things. This is a great question, Rob, and thank you so much for asking it. I don't know the inner workings of the minds of a Nazi, unfortunately, so I can't answer it.

[Rob Mahoney]

I appreciate that about you most of all. And I guess Rue's plan and the DEA's plan within all of this is for Laurie and Alamo to get pinched in the process of executing this plan that may or may not benefit or not benefit both of them.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah, Pinch is definitely the. The modern terminology that we're using here.

[Rob Mahoney]

We like to keep our finger on the box. I just like that we're on top of everything that's going on in the show. We definitely have a very good handle on a plot level of everything going on.

[Joanna Robinson]

All right. Anything else you want to say?

[Rob Mahoney]

I do have one final shout out. I think it's very important. I don't want to skirt over it. Alexander the Locksmith, I just thought, did impeccable work in this episode.

[Joanna Robinson]

Okay. The 3D printing.

[Rob Mahoney]

3D printing and just looking real exasperated as he does it. Just the huffing and puffing, the. I'm gonna need an hour. We need an excuse to get Ru to the church for an hour. And I'm glad that Alexander was here to do it. I thought he looked resplendent to his, like, very bizarre looking shirt. But you know what? It fit the character.

[Joanna Robinson]

I feel like this is so the place that I just moved into, has a. Here in LA, has a, I guess, 100-year-old door, and it's got like a very.

[Rob Mahoney]

I've got a lot of questions about the framing of that, but continue.

[Joanna Robinson]

Well, it's like it's a craftsman and like the house itself is been updated but they kept the original door.

[Rob Mahoney]

Kept the original door.

[Joanna Robinson]

And it's like very old and very cool and kind of warped and stuff like that. But really beautiful. And it's got this very finicky latch thing that kind of falls out sometimes. And so my landlord's like we have a door guy and he was like, he's eccentric and so he like.

[Rob Mahoney]

Let me stop you. Are any door guys not eccentric?

[Joanna Robinson]

That's the question about the locksmith. I'm like, they have a very specific set of skills. He has a very heavy like he knows how to fix the hundred year old doors that are on various craftsmen in Los Angeles. So he can be as eccentric as he wants to be. We're on a group chat right now and we're trying to figure out a time for him to come over and like fix the lash on the door.

[Rob Mahoney]

I love that that it's getting fixed for you. I also just believe firmly in my heart that if you are one of these door specialists, if you're a specialist in ingress and egress, you get to be as eccentric as you want. You get to follow your heart, whatever weird paths it goes on.

[Joanna Robinson]

And I feel like this locksmith has, has taken that prompt to heart.

[Rob Mahoney]

You know, they do seem like a strange sword. When are we going to get a locksmith oriented show? They have a lot of power.

[Joanna Robinson]

Um. Don't give away free ideas, Rob.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah, Dexter. But a locksmith, you know, like there's a lot of things we could do here. Are we murdering people? Early addition.

[Joanna Robinson]

But a locksmith murdering people with the locks.

[Rob Mahoney]

Well, you got to break into their place Nate Jacobs style and wait for them.

[Joanna Robinson]

Okay.

[Rob Mahoney]

You know, presumably.

[Joanna Robinson]

Great.

[Rob Mahoney]

I've never done it.

[Joanna Robinson]

Coming to you on MGM plus from Robin. Joanna in 2028. A locksmith but makes it make it Dexter. Great. Okay. Anything else you want to say?

[Rob Mahoney]

Let's get out of here. I think we really did it. That's enough.

[Joanna Robinson]

Happy Sunday. Next Sunday we will be back with another euphoria. Check in and then it'll be the finale. One of them we're threatening to broadcast live. Rob has not agreed to it yet. But we're getting close. We're getting close. Could be the finale.

[Rob Mahoney]

The pitch needs to be made. We gotta some compensation. I don't know.

[Joanna Robinson]

You don't wanna wade through the waters of black exploitation and Naz and gun blank slur manifestos and all these other things live beamed out to YouTube without any cuts.

[Rob Mahoney]

Look, the people out there don't know how many of your slurs we have to edit out of this podcast.

[Joanna Robinson]

So how many times I dumped tea on myself. Thank you Jacob Cornette Def Naldo, Kai Grady Rob Mahoney thank you Joe.

[Rob Mahoney]

Also Also thanks to all the men out there who do need instruction on how to jerk off. I thought it was a great source of comedy in this episode. I appreciate it.

[Joanna Robinson]

It thanks to all the men out there who say like no woman deserves

[Rob Mahoney]

to get hit a bolt.

[Joanna Robinson]

So brave. All right, we'll see you soon. Bye.

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[Rob Mahoney]

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