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The Prestige TV Podcast
Golf on Screen: 'Stick' Eps. 1-3 (Plus ‘Happy Gilmore' and 'Tin Cup' ) With Joanna Robinson and Rob Mahoney
01:02:10
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- [00:14]
Joanna Robinson
Hello. Welcome back to the Prestige TV podcast feed. I'm Joanna Robinson.
- [00:17]
Rob Mahoney
I'm Rob Mahoney.
- [00:18]
Joanna Robinson
We are here live and in person to talk about the TV event of the year.
- [00:23]
Rob Mahoney
Yeah, why not?
- [00:24]
Joanna Robinson
Sure. It's Stick on Apple tv. But before we talk about, talk about this new own Wilson show that is ostensibly about golf. We're going to talk about that in a second.
- [00:35]
Rob Mahoney
Golf, the meaning of life, family.
- [00:37]
Joanna Robinson
I was reading this really fascinating. Have you heard of Bill Simmons?
- [00:40]
Rob Mahoney
Vaguely, yes. Yeah.
- [00:41]
Joanna Robinson
He wrote this really fascinating piece on this website called Grantland several years ago.
- [00:47]
Rob Mahoney
I've also heard of that, but mostly by reputation.
- [00:49]
Joanna Robinson
Where he was talking about is it a sports movie or is it a romcom? Was sort of a delineation. He. He had a bunch of different sort of criteria on rubric or whatever. Because we're gonna talk about. Not just talk about Stick and whether or not it is. Is it a sports show or is it a daddy issue show? This is a question we can ask ourselves.
- [01:10]
Rob Mahoney
One would argue all sports shows are daddy issue shows at their core.
- [01:14]
Joanna Robinson
A great title of a lost episode. And then before we do that, we each watched a golf movie we had never seen before. And so we just thought we would talk about, I don't know, sports movies quite broadly. Uh, a topic that might be of interest to people who frequent the ringer golf as a sport. How does it lend itself to the medium of a sports movie or a sports TV show? And. And then how Stick sort of measures up to these other two. I would say classics of sports cinema.
- [01:48]
Rob Mahoney
I would definitely say so.
- [01:50]
Joanna Robinson
I was looking at a bunch of lists of the top golf movies of all time. And every list had these two movies that we're about to talk about. Briefly, before we get into Stick at.
- [02:02]
Rob Mahoney
The top, would you like to name.
- [02:03]
Joanna Robinson
Them the movies that we're gonna talk about?
- [02:06]
Rob Mahoney
I would. I think that'd be helpful.
- [02:07]
Joanna Robinson
I saw the film Happy Gilmore for the first time.
- [02:10]
Rob Mahoney
Yes.
- [02:12]
Joanna Robinson
You saw.
- [02:12]
Rob Mahoney
I saw the movie Tin cup for the first time. I would say not only are these great golf movies.
- [02:18]
Joanna Robinson
Yeah.
- [02:18]
Rob Mahoney
To record that you could recommend to anybody whether they're interested in sports movies or not really.
- [02:23]
Joanna Robinson
But.
- [02:23]
Rob Mahoney
But the DNA with Stick, there's so much in common. And I would say, especially I'm not a golf guy personally. I have zero interest in watching, participating, engaging with golf in any other way. So bringing it down to dirtbag golf, now we're talking. Right? Like, now we're kind of getting somewhere. It's a little less stuffy.
- [02:42]
Joanna Robinson
Yes.
- [02:42]
Rob Mahoney
You know, we're not in white pants. We're in low cut tank tops. We're in dusty old shirts. You know, we're on broken down driving ranges. I think all. Both stick. And these two movies we're going to talk about all kind of bring it down to that level in a really, if we're going to be honest, like, humanizing way that makes golf a little less pretentious to me.
- [02:59]
Joanna Robinson
And I think what's interesting about those two movies, and I think a number of golf stories that have captured people's hearts and minds is. Is the class question. Because for so. For so long, golfer equals. I have a lot of money. I have a lot of leisure time. I have a lot of XYZ in Happy Gilmore. Of course, this is we playing for money to save our house and our grandma. We are in hockey.
- [03:28]
Rob Mahoney
Most importantly, your grandma.
- [03:29]
Joanna Robinson
Yeah, grandma, the house. We're wearing hockey jerseys. We will not wear khakis on the golf course. That's not something we're gonna do.
- [03:37]
Rob Mahoney
Not so much.
- [03:38]
Unknown
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- [04:43]
Joanna Robinson
Do you want to. I. I will explain for literally anyone who has never watched it, the plot of Happy Gilmore.
- [04:49]
Rob Mahoney
Yeah, I think this is a good format. Let's do a little plot swap.
- [04:52]
Joanna Robinson
Okay. Should I start?
- [04:53]
Rob Mahoney
Please.
- [04:53]
Joanna Robinson
Okay. Happy Gilmore, the titular Happy Gilmore is Adam Sandler. A hockey player who cannot make it onto a hockey team.
- [05:02]
Rob Mahoney
No. But mostly because of his like violent, erratic tendencies.
- [05:06]
Joanna Robinson
Yes.
- [05:06]
Rob Mahoney
Famously tried to stab People multiple times with his.
- [05:09]
Joanna Robinson
Some temper issues.
- [05:10]
Rob Mahoney
Yes.
- [05:11]
Joanna Robinson
Uh, his. His beloved grandmother loses her house due to tax evasion, and he needs to drum up some money to get the house back. And he finds, through a series of random happenstances, that he has an incredible golf swing and he can crush it on the long game.
- [05:29]
Rob Mahoney
But the short game, that's where it gets you.
- [05:32]
Joanna Robinson
Putting. That's tough. Uh, we've got a nemesis in Shooter McGavin. All timer Chris McDonald. Right. We've got a love interest in Julie Bowen's character, whose name I didn't bother to learn.
- [05:45]
Rob Mahoney
Also an all timer, though.
- [05:47]
Joanna Robinson
And. And we've got victory. We've got a. We've got a, you know, a down on his luck. Unlikely guy.
- [05:54]
Rob Mahoney
Yeah.
- [05:55]
Joanna Robinson
Makes it in a. In a sport that no one thinks he belongs in. What is Tin cup about?
- [06:00]
Rob Mahoney
I would say also a down on his luck guy who not a lot of people believe in, but one who meets Rene Russo one time and proceeds to have a nervous breakdown in which he re. Evaluates his life. And look, if Rene Russo walks into your life and talks about strapping you up with a saddle, I. I would think a lot of people might have a nervous breakdown. So radically starts changing his life, trying to understand what his priorities are. Going to therapy for the first time, really. It's a movie about the inner. The inner game of golf. Right. The mental game, not dissimilar from happy in his putting and in doing so, is confronting his internal nemesis, himself and his own kind of ability and willingness, his own tendency to fly off the handle. And then an adversary in Don Johnson, who is like his old college teammate, therefore longtime rival, and I would say makes the great offense of asking Kevin Costner to be his caddy. And that's really what sets all these events in motion. Ultimately, this is. This is what Tin cup is the ultimate brains versus balls movie like it is all about. Do you. Do you go for it every single time and take the riskiest chances? Or do you. Do you play the percentage game?
- [07:06]
Joanna Robinson
Do you lay up?
- [07:06]
Rob Mahoney
Do you lay up? Do you. Do you play smart golf?
- [07:09]
Joanna Robinson
Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Great assessment. How did you feel about Tin Cup?
- [07:13]
Rob Mahoney
I loved it.
- [07:14]
Joanna Robinson
It was great, right?
- [07:15]
Rob Mahoney
Incredibly charming. What is there not to like? I like, I think to. To the bill part of that. Like, it's both a great rom com and a great sports.
- [07:22]
Joanna Robinson
It might just be a great rom com. This is like something I was listening to because I am a totally normal person. Some golf podcasts where they were talking about the best golf mo you Want.
- [07:30]
Rob Mahoney
To shout out the golf podcast you're listening to?
- [07:33]
Joanna Robinson
And one of them was saying that he doesn't like Tin cup because he feels like it's just a rom com.
- [07:37]
Rob Mahoney
Not enough golf.
- [07:38]
Joanna Robinson
Not enough golf. In. In the golf movie, there is an iconic sequence in Tin Cup, Happy uses a hockey stick for much of his gameplay. Kevin Costner uses gardening tools in a very memorable.
- [07:52]
Rob Mahoney
Shovel.
- [07:52]
Joanna Robinson
Yeah.
- [07:54]
Rob Mahoney
Rake. I feel like at one point a hoe. Yeah. Like, there's a whole thing in the sand trap where it's like, you're not allowed to actually hoe the ball out of the sand trap. Here's the thing. Even if it's not that golfy. A golf movie, the point of making a golf movie or a golf show or a sports show in general, we're mostly here for the metaphor. Like, we're here for the. Like, tee off and you might shank it. But guess what? There's another hole coming up. You get to reset your life all over again.
- [08:19]
Joanna Robinson
Here's a line that might be in all three of these. Might be in Tin cup and Abby Gilmore and stick.
- [08:25]
Rob Mahoney
They do repeat themselves.
- [08:27]
Joanna Robinson
It's a game of inches. It is the most important being the six inches between your ears. So, yeah, it's a mental game. I just want to.
- [08:35]
Rob Mahoney
I think in a physical game, you know, I think they. They apply in Tin cup, especially a movie that, because of its era, dares to have actual adult relationships in it. You know, you get the. You get the golf metaphor in the bedroom too. You know, it's all about tempo. It's all, you know, can I get a mulligan on that?
- [08:50]
Joanna Robinson
There's.
- [08:51]
Rob Mahoney
I think there's many ways he absolutely shanked it. But guess what? You get. You get another T. We're talking about.
- [08:56]
Joanna Robinson
The yips inside of this certainly are out of all of these contexts. Tin cup, which was made by Ron Shelton, who did Bull Durham. White men can't jump Blue chips. Like a bunch of incredible sports movies bringing the love of the game, but. And a knowledge of the game. But also, they're just their hang movies.
- [09:14]
Rob Mahoney
Yes.
- [09:15]
Joanna Robinson
In Tin cup, especially, like, Costner's character is surrounded by a coterie of just, like, fun loser guys. I mean, Cheech. Cheech Marin is kind of the runaway star of this last rewatch of Tin Cups. He's wonderful as his caddy and best friend, but the whole gang that hangs out at the driving range, like, and just all of them just shooting the. All the time like that is very Bull Durham to me as well. And it's Incredibly fun. But it's interesting to think about golf as a game.
- [09:43]
Rob Mahoney
Yeah.
- [09:44]
Joanna Robinson
Versus, what's your favorite sports movie of all time?
- [09:48]
Rob Mahoney
I mean, it's probably Hoop Dreams.
- [09:49]
Joanna Robinson
Sure.
- [09:49]
Rob Mahoney
So but like non documentary gets a little dicier, honestly. Challengers rising up the ranks pretty quickly.
- [09:54]
Joanna Robinson
I was thinking about challengers actually when I was watching Stick.
- [09:56]
Rob Mahoney
I think it works really well in tennis. Tennis and golf have a similar kind of quandary in terms of like a filmmaking or a showmaking endeavor, which is they're naturally very dramatic sports. Like, it's one person either on their own playing singles or, you know, getting ready to tee off or on a green. Like you have these dramatic moments, but tennis is naturally kinetic and that can be challenging to shoot in a way that I think Challenger solved really effectively. And it's like tennis in that movie. So magnetic. Golf, though, is like not the most interesting sport to watch from a movement perspective in a way that as we kind of get into Stick, I think stick does really, really well and makes it feel like you feel the momentum, you feel some of the drives, you feel the power of.
- [10:36]
Joanna Robinson
That's a sound design.
- [10:37]
Rob Mahoney
It's what sound design, but it's also a cinematography. Like they do a lot of kind of drone shotting off of the tee and so, you know, putting yourself in the place of the ball in a way that kind of transforms those scenes.
- [10:47]
Joanna Robinson
And a lot of that comes from, I should say the cinematic classic Happy Gilmore, because Happy has this incredible swing. And so the camera is just like shooting back with the ball, you know, and probably across the entire golf course as his. I was thinking a lot about that inside of Stick and I think this idea of golf as it's really you versus you. Because Shooter McGavin and David Sims, which is no relation to Blank Check host David Sims, who is Don Johnson's character. Like, you know, these are like stereotypical 80s jock rivals, you know, that you have here, but you're really fighting your own inner demons. And that's what probably any good sports movie is. But in a lot of sports movies that I love are team based. And so it's much more about team dynamics or who is your ultimate team rival and stuff like that. And this is just sort of you versus you at the T and how you can overcome that or not, which is one of the joys of Tin Cup.
- [11:49]
Rob Mahoney
I love that part about it. I love that in the end it's not about winning, but about like kind of overcoming a hurdle for you or even kind of proving a point in a way. To you or someone else. I think a lot of these sports movies, and especially the golf movies, come down to that moment of you had these characters have an arc over the course of the movie, learning the thing that they have a hard time with. Usually in golf, it's like self control, a lot of anger. You know, it is that mental game. And so in order to get to the end, they have to conquer some of those elements. But then in the end, it's like you kind of have to go back to the person you were at the beginning and channel some of, like, the loose canon elements of your personality, but in a more constructive way.
- [12:27]
Joanna Robinson
That got you there.
- [12:28]
Rob Mahoney
That got you there in the first place. Like, you have to be yourself in addition to whatever you learn.
- [12:32]
Joanna Robinson
I agree about golf being. I mean, I've never personally sat down and watched, you know, the US Open or anything like that. Why is that? It's just not my game, personally.
- [12:42]
Rob Mahoney
What is your game?
- [12:44]
Joanna Robinson
To watch?
- [12:44]
Rob Mahoney
Yeah.
- [12:46]
Joanna Robinson
Hockey.
- [12:48]
Rob Mahoney
Okay.
- [12:48]
Joanna Robinson
I like a hockey game.
- [12:49]
Rob Mahoney
It hurts, but okay. It's not basketball, you know, I just. I was just throwing you the alley.
- [12:55]
Joanna Robinson
Like, I was hoping it's baseball and hockey. It's not really. I will watch a basketball game, but it's not my first choice anyway.
- [13:01]
Rob Mahoney
Fair enough.
- [13:01]
Joanna Robinson
So sorry to wound you personally, but I think. I think this idea of. I have no idea what I was gonna say.
- [13:10]
Rob Mahoney
I'm so sorry. Well, let me bring it back to this. With the sports movies. Things that I love about a sports movie. You nailed it. The camaraderie of team. And that's somewhere with a golf movie, you have to create a group around the player or the players to make it really, really work. It can't all be internal. I also think that they have such a crystal clear arc. There's always a big game or a big tournament. It makes it very easy to say we're trying to get here.
- [13:34]
Joanna Robinson
And it reminded me of something you brought up. We filmed the big pic draft. 2000 draft.
- [13:40]
Rob Mahoney
Yes, we certainly did. I am recovering in many ways.
- [13:42]
Joanna Robinson
You were talking about what you wanted from Gladiator, which was more mini, sort.
- [13:48]
Rob Mahoney
Of minor league gladiatorial games.
- [13:50]
Joanna Robinson
And that's every golf movie.
- [13:53]
Rob Mahoney
They're so. Golf in particular, so good at the.
- [13:55]
Joanna Robinson
Minor turny tourney turny leading up to the big Open or the big championship or whatever it is.
- [14:00]
Rob Mahoney
And this is the thing too. Like, to me, there are never small stakes in any kind of story. Like, I just don't believe in that concept. I think every story tells you what's important. To it. And if you tell me the big game or the big tournament is important, I'm right there with Happy Gilmore, like, trying to get his grandma's house back.
- [14:17]
Joanna Robinson
I think the kinetic, the lack of kinetic nature of golf, I think, is a really interesting thing to bring up. But it is so easy to follow in terms of, you know, any sports movie you can look, there's a. Usually a scoreboard, whatever, in golf. It's so fun because you can watch your name rise up the ranks or fall down there. I don't need to understand about under par to understand that Happy Gilmore's name, he's at the top, you know, he's moving up, up the board and stuff like that, you know, and then you've got announcers, some great announcer work in Tin cup especially, I would say. And then you've got fun things like sand traps and water, you know, water features and stuff like that. That, that can sort of make it a little bit more kinetic, but. But it is a challenge. And I think most of the most successful golf depictions will yada, yada, through a lot to get you where you are.
- [15:10]
Rob Mahoney
You simply have to. There's a lot of course to cover multiple rounds being played in some of these tournaments. Like, you have to kind of jump to the points that matter, jump to like the crux of when these people are in crisis on the course in some way.
- [15:22]
Joanna Robinson
So let's talk about stick, please, because.
- [15:25]
Rob Mahoney
Yeah, there's a lot of crisis on the course and stick already even within these first three episodes.
- [15:30]
Joanna Robinson
As we were talking to Bill a couple prestige episodes ago about this idea of Apple strategy of putting stars of the Wedding Crashers into their. Into their shows.
- [15:41]
Rob Mahoney
It's an effective business model. I don't know what to tell you.
- [15:44]
Joanna Robinson
Is the Owen Wilson Show. Yes, like, without question, this is the Owen Wilson Show. He plays Price Cahill, a down on his luck former pro golfer who is now selling golf clubs. You know, and I can't remember exactly what I texted you, but I was like, he's a combination of Roy McAvoy from Tin cup, but also the bomber from the Royal Tannenbaums, because there's this sort of like meltdown, famous meltdown from his past. So I was thinking a lot about his brother, Luke Wilson. He has an ex wife slash mom, played by Judy Greer.
- [16:23]
Rob Mahoney
The great Judy Greer.
- [16:24]
Joanna Robinson
Oh, the great Judy Greer.
- [16:25]
Rob Mahoney
The greatest.
- [16:25]
Joanna Robinson
Maybe the greatest. Doing kind of exactly what she did in Ant Man.
- [16:29]
Rob Mahoney
I would say better. I would say better.
- [16:31]
Joanna Robinson
Yes.
- [16:33]
Rob Mahoney
I'm willing to defend some of the Judy Greer Character writing in this episode and also some of. I would say the central plot of these first three episodes is. Yes. We're getting used to Price as this another down in his luck golfer, another person in crisis, another person grifter, schemer, trying to scrounge up money, finds this kid Santi, who can just knock the ever living hell out of the ball at the driving range.
- [16:56]
Joanna Robinson
And that's a direct Happy Gilmore moment.
- [16:59]
Rob Mahoney
Completely. The sound, the echo. Like, again, you're very wise to point out the sound design. Like, that is how you get people invested in that kind of action. Decides to try to endeavor to coach Santi.
- [17:10]
Joanna Robinson
Right.
- [17:11]
Rob Mahoney
And so we're kind of learning. Oh. What Santi's background in golf was, what his relationship to his family is. We meet his mother, Elena, the second Elena we've met in another Apple TV show. I would say the superior Elena.
- [17:22]
Joanna Robinson
Yes.
- [17:23]
Rob Mahoney
And so, like, these are two characters to me, Elena and Amberlynn is Judy Greer's character's name, who, like in other shows, I think could very easily fall into all sorts of pitfalls.
- [17:33]
Joanna Robinson
Feisty Latina mom.
- [17:34]
Rob Mahoney
Feisty Latina mom, ex wife, who's like kind of a nag, kind of a ball buster. And it's like, I think they're threading a pretty careful needle with both in a way that works pretty well, to be honest with you, when that could easily be a huge blunder.
- [17:48]
Joanna Robinson
I would say Elena doesn't always work for me, but I don't want to come on a podcast and be anti another Elena on an Apple show.
- [17:55]
Rob Mahoney
But this Elena is like that Elena had problems.
- [17:58]
Joanna Robinson
Yeah, no, this, this is much more promising. And I'm thrilled by Mark Marin's presence here. Mark Marin plays very good Price's pal Mitts, who helps him in a. In a bar grift. A very Tin cup moment. And owns, crucially owns the mobile home, the Winnebago.
- [18:19]
Rob Mahoney
Yes.
- [18:20]
Joanna Robinson
That they will be traveling around on. I, you know, Judy Greer is listed in the guest category. So now that they're on the road, we start with some at home drama.
- [18:29]
Rob Mahoney
Right.
- [18:29]
Joanna Robinson
Judy Greer is like, please let me sell this massive house that. That you have trash and are just smoking weed in. And she's basically funding with $100,000 that she, you know, drums up for him funding this on the road idea of let's get Santi to the championship.
- [18:51]
Rob Mahoney
His big bet, basically. It's like, I'm like, this is basically prices money from the prospect of selling the house and he's going to invest all. Yeah. Plus a little extra. I have a lot of questions. Again, as someone who's not super familiar with the world of golf, is this how golf prospecting works? Is like, if you want to coach a kid, you pay the family $100,000 for the privilege of then having a split?
- [19:11]
Joanna Robinson
I don't know. But I admire Elena's bargaining skills.
- [19:15]
Rob Mahoney
She's a great businesswoman. I just don't know if this is how golf works. And look, if. Is she.
- [19:19]
Joanna Robinson
I had some questions about her. The bank scene.
- [19:23]
Rob Mahoney
I don't think the bank scene is meant to portray her as, like, someone who's totally financially fluent. Right. Someone who's come into this huge sum of money, this hundred thousand dollars, and is, like, trying to figure out what to do with it. And like, everyone else in the store is like, a little over her skis.
- [19:36]
Joanna Robinson
So we've got Elena, we've got Santi, we've got Mitts, and we've got Price. And that's who's in the Winnebago. Right?
- [19:44]
Rob Mahoney
Right.
- [19:45]
Joanna Robinson
And then in episode three, we met the other series regular who's a manic pixie dream girl bartender named Zero, Former.
- [19:53]
Rob Mahoney
Bartender Zero.
- [19:58]
Joanna Robinson
Played by Lily Kay, who people might know from Yellowstone etc. And she win Santi, who has daddy issues and Price. Okay, I am enjoying the show. The end of episode one, Dead kid montage via home video. Yep, not my favorite move that a show has ever pulled.
- [20:21]
Rob Mahoney
Totally valid point. Okay, completely valid point.
- [20:24]
Joanna Robinson
But the point is Price, has I lost my son issues? Santi, has my dad left me issues? So these are where these two people are meeting each other. But when that dynamic plays out in the third episode, which is literally called Daddy issues, they're like, we know what we're doing.
- [20:41]
Rob Mahoney
Yes.
- [20:42]
Joanna Robinson
In Swoop's former bartender Zero, to be a sort of Renee Russo esque sports psychologist. Reclaim your power figure. Will she join the team? Will she crop up bartending at all of these random tourneys? We don't know exactly what her involvement will be going forward.
- [21:03]
Rob Mahoney
She does whip very quickly from I'm going to storm out of my bartending job at this golf course into I'm just going to follow this kid around during the tournament all day.
- [21:11]
Joanna Robinson
Yes. Well, I guess. What else are you going to do? You're not working the shift anymore.
- [21:16]
Rob Mahoney
Go home.
- [21:17]
Joanna Robinson
Yeah.
- [21:17]
Rob Mahoney
Do literally anything else.
- [21:18]
Joanna Robinson
It's a great point. But she's invested in Santi. And I should say, I am also invested in Santi.
- [21:23]
Rob Mahoney
Hell yeah, Joe.
- [21:24]
Joanna Robinson
Because the actor who's playing Santi, who we believe his name is Peter Jake, or we Believe that's the pronunciation. Last name.
- [21:29]
Rob Mahoney
Yeah.
- [21:30]
Joanna Robinson
I really like this kid.
- [21:31]
Rob Mahoney
He's really good.
- [21:32]
Joanna Robinson
They're styling him Chalamet.
- [21:35]
Rob Mahoney
I mean, the tussle is admirable, the.
- [21:37]
Joanna Robinson
Hair is enviable tussle, pure uncut Chalamet. But this kid is like, I really like this kid.
- [21:44]
Rob Mahoney
Very good and a very believable golfer.
- [21:46]
Joanna Robinson
Like, I don't know anything about that.
- [21:48]
Rob Mahoney
But you can just tell from the, like, the smoothness of the motion, you know, like, we covered. We covered Fargo and there was like an asshole husband on his home simulator. And it was like the hitch in his swing was like, oh, this is very clearly either not meant to be a good golfer, although that character insists he was this one. It's like, if you're going to tell us this kid is like a real talent. Yeah, it needs to look like this and sound like this and feel like this. And he's selling that. He's selling the athlete as much as he is the kid.
- [22:13]
Joanna Robinson
This kid has to work for this show to work, because Owen Wilson is just dialing up his folksy Owen Wilson. I've got a bunch of one liners like a butterfly, you know, like, whatever it is. Like, he's dialing that up to 11. But if he's not bouncing off a kid who can sort of meet his energy or with the opposite sullen kid energy, the show does not work. And I really think this kid is a great find.
- [22:39]
Rob Mahoney
And him being like an empathetic presence in the show, I think sells some of the harsher edges of Owen Wilson's character too, because as we said, like, he is a schemer. He's someone who's like, always looking for an angle, always looking for something to play. There's clearly a part of that character that just believes in this kid and what he can be. There's also a part of him that sees this kid as a way out or a way up for him personally. And, you know, like, they were introduced him in the show, like, upselling golf clubs and, like, really laying it on especially thick with a prospective customer, I think kind of primes us for what.
- [23:10]
Joanna Robinson
To expect from this kid to being a rich dummy.
- [23:12]
Rob Mahoney
Yeah, like. Like there's always going to be something that's kind of earnest in an Owen Wilson performance, but there's also going to be something that's like, this guy's like a little bit or maybe a medium bit full of shit.
- [23:21]
Joanna Robinson
Right.
- [23:21]
Rob Mahoney
And him having that and bringing that into it and, like, side betting on Santi's rounds and things like that in addition to. You just feel for this kid and you feel him being manipulated into the system by Price as well.
- [23:34]
Joanna Robinson
How is the marrying character met his presence working for you inside the show? Like, not just his comic relief, there's this whole plotline in episode three where he gets trapped under a bed. But, like, as someone who knows Price well enough that he says, you bet on the kid, didn't you? Yeah, you know, I. You're.
- [23:54]
Rob Mahoney
You're.
- [23:54]
Joanna Robinson
You're yelling at him because you bet on the kid in his first, you know, game that you're here helping him and supervising him. You bet. You. You put this. You ramped up the stakes unnecessarily.
- [24:05]
Rob Mahoney
When do you think we will get the call back to, like, he touches his ear when he's lying. Oh, that's come. That's coming back at some point.
- [24:12]
Joanna Robinson
Energy. Great call. Great call. I can't. I can't wait. Will it. Will it. Will it be every episode? That's the question.
- [24:23]
Rob Mahoney
I think I hope for more of the show than that. You know, it's. It's so funny with this because, like, the particulars of tone are so personal to every viewer, to every show. This is a show that has a lot in common with Ted Lasso, for example.
- [24:37]
Joanna Robinson
Like, that's next on my list to.
- [24:39]
Rob Mahoney
Ask you about a sports show that is endeavoring to have, like, a lot of heart and to. And to look at some, like, interpersonal things that are more complex than just, like, can you save this English football club? You know? Or in this case, can you save a golf. Can you teach this kid? Ted Lasso does not work for me. Like, it just, like, tonally does not work. I think it has its.
- [24:56]
Joanna Robinson
It's too earnest for you.
- [24:58]
Rob Mahoney
I think the first season more successfully, and then it gets into a zone, and this is something we need to flag with a show. Like, Stick is like, once we start pivoting into overt confrontation of the daddy issues and the dead kid montage and those things. Like, we're hinting around them, we're mentioning them, but we're not diving in just yet.
- [25:15]
Joanna Robinson
It felt early to call an episode Daddy issues episode three, but maybe it's like, I applaud you for getting it.
- [25:21]
Rob Mahoney
Yeah.
- [25:21]
Joanna Robinson
Putting it on the table and saying, we know what we've set up here. The Ted Lasso of it all is really interesting to me because I did, like, these three episodes. Not everything worked for me, and in the moments where it didn't work for me, I. I was just sort of like, they're just really. I really feel like they put out a, a vibe to the universe that said. Not a vibe, a directive. We're looking for our next Ted Lasso.
- [25:45]
Rob Mahoney
Yes.
- [25:46]
Joanna Robinson
What? You know, pitch us. What do you have? And Jason Keller, who's the, who's the showrunner here, is not a TV guy. And nothing on his cv. He's got some things on his CV for Versus Ferrari.
- [25:59]
Rob Mahoney
Big one, you know, another crowd pleaser.
- [26:02]
Joanna Robinson
Yeah, that, that helped me understand how he got here, but he's not a TV guy. So like the question of like the calibration of TV story telling and pacing, which is something we always talk about. An Apple show. David Dobkin directed the third episode. David Dobkin directed Wedding Crashers. So like we're just, we're doing Ford vs Ferrari meets wedding Crashers. And, and, and that's not a bad time. Yeah, but what's the arc of the full season? And not only that, do we need to worry about what's the arc of a multi season show? Because we have to be arcing towards a championship or a competition of some.
- [26:35]
Rob Mahoney
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Some kind of high level competition building.
- [26:37]
Joanna Robinson
Up to something completely.
- [26:40]
Rob Mahoney
I think the missing element of that is like the directors of the first two episodes, Jonathan Dayton and Valerie Faris directed Little Miss Sunshine. And you're packing a family into an RV and driving them across the country through competition. It's like, okay, now we're getting the elements, now we're getting the sports, we're getting the comedy, we're getting the family dynamics. That may work for some people, may not work for others. I gotta say for me, like, this is a cold glass of lemonade. Like, it is a very, like, is.
- [27:04]
Joanna Robinson
It an Arnold Palmer?
- [27:06]
Rob Mahoney
Well, I'm not an iced tea guy personally, so you can save it. But just like just a simple pleasure kind of show.
- [27:13]
Joanna Robinson
Rob, you have to be really nice to me today. You absolutely murdered me on the movie draft.
- [27:18]
Rob Mahoney
You personally can save it. I'm saying the bartender zero who's about to quit can keep her iced tea, you know.
- [27:24]
Joanna Robinson
Okay, okay.
- [27:25]
Rob Mahoney
I like. It is like the pleasures of the show, I think are quite simple. And it's like, it hits you though, at least hits me on like kind of an elemental level. Like they play the Boys are Back in Town. I'm like, fuck, yeah, the Boys are back in Town. Like, I actually appreciated the very. On the nose needle drops in this.
- [27:40]
Joanna Robinson
One when Owen Wilson says the Boys are back in town. And then they literally play the Boys are Back. They play the Boys and then the third episode starts with a bluegrass cover of Baba O'Reilly and then ends with actual Baba O'Reilly. Actual Baba O'Reilly. That's when I had a question about. We talked about this with your friends and neighbors. The Apple TV plus music budget on these shows, astronomical. They're just dropping Rolling Stones. And who tracks oh, my God. On a. On a third episode of a golf comedy on. On the show. Yeah. So I would get down on it for. It's on the nose needle drops. Were it not for tin.
- [28:18]
Rob Mahoney
I was about to say Tin cup.
- [28:20]
Joanna Robinson
Where they're basically, like, saying the plot of the movie over the folksy songs that are sprinkled throughout Tin Cup.
- [28:25]
Rob Mahoney
It's one of the most egregious examples of that I've ever seen.
- [28:28]
Joanna Robinson
I. I agree. My parents owned the soundtrack to Tin cup, so we actually, I like, know all of the songs we listen to a lot.
- [28:34]
Rob Mahoney
But how does it feel disembodied from the movie?
- [28:37]
Joanna Robinson
Oh, it's like. I mean, it's more country than I prefer, but it is like, they're kind of fun. Watch Rewatching Tin cup knowing you were about to watch it for the first time. Every needle drop, I was like, oh, no, Rob's gonna ask the questions. I had some questions about these needle drops. But yes, the music budget for Stick is out of control.
- [28:59]
Rob Mahoney
Along those lines, though, I have to say this was maybe the fastest country. Not usually my genre. I would say Stick is not particularly country, but it is like a jangly kind of Americana in its soundtrack. And the theme particularly is the fastest I have ever gone from hearing to shazaming to downloading this band's albums. I was like, this sounds great.
- [29:19]
Joanna Robinson
Who is it?
- [29:19]
Rob Mahoney
This band called Camp with two a C a a m P. Okay, I'm diving into the discography, but like, a really wonderful opening theme that I love.
- [29:27]
Joanna Robinson
Is this like a gangsta grass situation?
- [29:30]
Rob Mahoney
Well, nothing measures up to gangster grass.
- [29:34]
Unknown
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- [30:06]
Rob Mahoney
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- [30:37]
Unknown
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- [31:18]
Joanna Robinson
More@Applecard.Com the location before we go on the road, we're in Indiana and Jason Keller, the showrunner, is from Indianapolis, Indiana. So this is sort of like his love letter.
- [31:32]
Rob Mahoney
I suppose Indiana explains the IU paraphernalia hanging around.
- [31:37]
Joanna Robinson
But yeah, nothing about this show coming off our discussion with Bill about your friends and neighbors and asking what an Apple show is. Nothing about this show disproves my theory that Apple shows are for liberal leaning dads. Is this not, oh no, a West coast dad show?
- [31:56]
Rob Mahoney
I mean I don't think it has to be west coast, but like again.
- [31:58]
Joanna Robinson
It could be an all dad show.
- [32:00]
Rob Mahoney
Yeah.
- [32:00]
Joanna Robinson
I'm just saying in in slight contrast to the Taylor Sheridan verse, there's something slightly ooier and gooier about an Apple show.
- [32:09]
Rob Mahoney
You know you're allowed to be emotional in sports like this. I think this is a crucial part of the sports movie DNA too is like very relatable emotionality that doesn't feel too dangerous, that doesn't go too out there. Maybe Tin cup accepted. Like we're really bearing all in tin cup.
- [32:23]
Joanna Robinson
Yeah.
- [32:24]
Rob Mahoney
And and we'll see how much we do that in stick and how they confront these sorts of things. But like using golf or using a sport as an avenue to get into the human emotional experience. That's how you Trojan horse a dad. That's how you make him think he's Watching the funny golf show.
- [32:38]
Joanna Robinson
Yeah.
- [32:38]
Rob Mahoney
But then all of a sudden we're talking about our feelings.
- [32:40]
Joanna Robinson
I don't mean to completely gender line this, but would you say that like a sports movie is. Is a clear avenue to giving men permission to cry? Your Brian Song.
- [32:50]
Rob Mahoney
I think it's a huge part of it.
- [32:51]
Joanna Robinson
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay.
- [32:52]
Rob Mahoney
You know, we're getting better as a species about that. But it's still there. It's still the low hanging fruit.
- [32:58]
Joanna Robinson
Okay, interesting. That's. That's fascinating to me. I am having a good time with this show.
- [33:03]
Rob Mahoney
It's good.
- [33:04]
Joanna Robinson
Any other specifics you want to talk about in terms of this show?
- [33:06]
Unknown
Hmm.
- [33:07]
Rob Mahoney
I want to circle back to the Judy Greer element of this because, yeah, I think some of its writing and some of its performance for you want.
- [33:13]
Joanna Robinson
To talk about Bento Ben?
- [33:14]
Rob Mahoney
Bento Ben has taken some strays that he doesn't deserve. Seems like a really nice guy. But the clearest indication to us that that Price's wife or ex wife has like started to move on is she just laughs way too hard at Bento Ben. Like she like just keeling over at the worst possible jokes.
- [33:31]
Joanna Robinson
Yes.
- [33:32]
Rob Mahoney
In a way that is like kind of charming in its own right. And I actually this will be the shame if we're kind of on the road constantly and we don't check in with Judy Greer.
- [33:40]
Joanna Robinson
And certainly I don't think we're going to.
- [33:42]
Rob Mahoney
Unless it's like you're in trouble. Like, you know, if they hit the skids and I guess they need more money. Is she just the ATM in this show? I hope not.
- [33:48]
Joanna Robinson
Is she bailing them out of more jail perhaps?
- [33:51]
Rob Mahoney
How many jails can one get bailed out of for parking tickets in particular?
- [33:54]
Joanna Robinson
You know, Owen Wilson is here to test the limit for that.
- [33:57]
Rob Mahoney
I'm sure, I'm sure her big speech again to Price. A speech like if written differently, would feel very condescending or feel very naggy to like our male anchor character about how it's always someone else's problem. Pepper in like, oh, it was always someone else's problem that your dick got stuck in the Dyson. And it's like this, this show knows exactly what it's doing and I think it's walking a lot of these tightropes really, really well.
- [34:20]
Joanna Robinson
I think the Judy Greer character, were it the main character, were she a main character.
- [34:25]
Rob Mahoney
Yes. I would have more issues which Judy Greer should be a main character in things of her.
- [34:29]
Joanna Robinson
If not this character. Give us more Judy Greer all the time. We, we really agree but, like, given that she's a side character, I'm not that concerned about her being fairly thinly developed. There's some stuff lurking for Marin's character where he talks about, you know, he used to be in the RV with his. With his wife. So that's sort of floating around. There's some stuff lurking. Some bombs ready to go off for Elena. Really important question for you is, as an owner of a smallish dog, Rob Mahoney.
- [35:03]
Rob Mahoney
Oh, yeah.
- [35:03]
Joanna Robinson
How do you feel about the tiny dog representation inside of this show?
- [35:07]
Rob Mahoney
They're. They're gorgeous little critters, to be honest with you. That said, bringing a dog into an rv or in this case, multiple dogs.
- [35:14]
Joanna Robinson
Yeah.
- [35:15]
Rob Mahoney
You gotta check with all parties.
- [35:16]
Joanna Robinson
Three.
- [35:17]
Rob Mahoney
Are there three? I thought there was two. There's three dogs.
- [35:20]
Joanna Robinson
There's the old one, and there's two sort of more nimble ones. I believe. I believe that's the case.
- [35:25]
Rob Mahoney
Any amount of dogs in someone else's RV is probably too many dogs. That said, they're adorable, and I support them in all of their life choices, including currently, like, peeing under the bed.
- [35:34]
Joanna Robinson
How did they. How did it get in there?
- [35:36]
Rob Mahoney
No clue. This is the question with dogs perpetually. How. How did they do that? I don't know. Doesn't make sense.
- [35:41]
Joanna Robinson
Okay, let me ask you a question. This is based off of spoilers for Tin Cup.
- [35:45]
Rob Mahoney
Yeah. This is the spoiler section for Tin.
- [35:48]
Joanna Robinson
Cup, I guess a very old movie. This is a sports movie question. Do you prefer a sports story where our main character wins, or do you prefer a story where our main character loses?
- [36:03]
Rob Mahoney
I like the loss.
- [36:04]
Joanna Robinson
Yeah, me too.
- [36:05]
Rob Mahoney
Look, I'm a sucker for the bittersweet. I'm a sucker for the moral victory. But the literal defeat, I. I think that makes for more interesting storytelling, especially because the natural tension is always going to be. We're expecting them to win. Like, how. How are they going to do this? We know that they're down in the fourth quarter. We know that they're trailing on the leaderboards. Like, how are they going to pull it together? The answer is, a lot of times you don't.
- [36:27]
Joanna Robinson
Yeah.
- [36:28]
Rob Mahoney
But you learn something about yourself along the way, Joe.
- [36:30]
Joanna Robinson
I like. I like the loss that. Yeah, you're right. The moral victory. I'm not sure Tin cup qualifies as that. The question about Tim cup is, does his character actually go on any journey whatsoever?
- [36:41]
Rob Mahoney
I don't actually. I don't know that he does.
- [36:43]
Joanna Robinson
Unclear. Some self awareness, I think is there's some self awareness. Maybe the hope that he will continue to go to therapy with not his girlfriend. Might.
- [36:52]
Rob Mahoney
Might be his therapy goes off the rails pretty quickly.
- [36:54]
Joanna Robinson
Yeah, but what if he were seeing a different therapist?
- [36:57]
Rob Mahoney
Well, I don't think he was interested in going to see any other therapist. That's kind of the crux of the thing.
- [37:01]
Joanna Robinson
But Tin cup is not a win, not a lot. That's a move that ends with a loss. And it's not a loss where the athlete necessarily has the moral victory. He has just decided, fuck it, this is who I am. I'm a loose cannon and that's who I'm going to be. Or take the big memorable swing and don't play it safe. But there are other sports movies where the loss is for the sake of. To save this relationship or this other priority in my life, I need to let go of. The trophy is the only thing that matters, and I will sacrifice that for this other win in my life.
- [37:35]
Rob Mahoney
Yeah.
- [37:36]
Joanna Robinson
Um, for Santi, though, like, what. What is the potential, like, moral victory or emotional journey that he can go on that would make not winning still winning for him?
- [37:48]
Rob Mahoney
Well, I think the emotional journey that he started to go on. Right. Like he started allowing himself to be coached, getting back into golf after playing, apparently not playing it for a long time, bumping heads with Price pretty quickly once they get into the process of actually playing tournaments and then turning to manic pixie, former bartender 0a0, apparently, who helps him embrace his power and like his own instincts.
- [38:11]
Joanna Robinson
Yeah.
- [38:11]
Rob Mahoney
And so, yeah, those are like the two presences on his shoulder. Right. Like the two voices in his ear kind of pulling him in these different directions. But ultimately, like, the healing is the reason he quit golf, which we're kind of. It's intimated that like, something about his. His dad ruined their relationship in some way and now that ruined his relationship with golf. And so it's like repairing the relationship with golf doesn't fix the relationship with your dad, but it may plug some kind of hole in yourself in the process.
- [38:38]
Joanna Robinson
Right. Find a different father figure, one who hopefully will not bet money on your wins or losses on your first day.
- [38:45]
Rob Mahoney
But one that has their own child sized hole in their life, courtesy of their maybe dead, I assume, dead child.
- [38:53]
Joanna Robinson
She says it won't bring him back.
- [38:55]
Rob Mahoney
Yeah, it's not.
- [38:56]
Joanna Robinson
It won't bring him back from college.
- [38:59]
Rob Mahoney
Back from boarding school. I'm sorry.
- [39:02]
Joanna Robinson
I also love. I mean, he puts in the DVD that's like all their home movies or whatever.
- [39:09]
Rob Mahoney
Yeah.
- [39:09]
Joanna Robinson
And it's like a real dead wife montage moment.
- [39:12]
Rob Mahoney
Yeah.
- [39:13]
Joanna Robinson
Except Judy Greer is still alive. And so then there's the reveal that there's like. I mean, they had already had the it won't bring him back moment. And I was expecting him to just dig a photo out of a box. Then he got the DVD and then we had to see all of that. And it was. It was a lot.
- [39:27]
Rob Mahoney
One of my favorite elements of the dead family member montage in any way is the like, who is holding the camera question. Like, there's times where it's like they're both in the frame and the camera's like up upstairs looking down.
- [39:38]
Joanna Robinson
It's Marin, it's Mark Marin just living upstairs.
- [39:42]
Rob Mahoney
I don't know. I don't know what's going on with the camera work in that house and I don't know what's going on with that montage. You probably didn't need it. I would, you know, here's the thing to bring it back to your do you prefer if they win or lose question. I prefer leaving it on the. It's not going to bring him back. We don't need the montage.
- [39:56]
Joanna Robinson
I really agree.
- [39:57]
Rob Mahoney
And I don't even need them to win or lose. In some ways. My ultimate preference is Friday Night Light style. Ball in the Air.
- [40:03]
Joanna Robinson
Oh, my God.
- [40:03]
Rob Mahoney
Ball in the Air.
- [40:04]
Joanna Robinson
My favorite cut.
- [40:05]
Rob Mahoney
Cut to the future and you see where these people are and that's like showing their emotional growth but maybe not their literal change in status from when you're in the.
- [40:13]
Joanna Robinson
Is there a championship ring that like, lets us know how that.
- [40:15]
Rob Mahoney
But. But a subtle one.
- [40:16]
Joanna Robinson
Yeah, it's a subtle. It's a subtle reveal. I was going to say Friday Night Lights. Ball in the Air is. Is one of the all time hard to beat that versions of that. Absolutely. Someone we have not seen yet in this show is our guy, Tim Oliphant.
- [40:29]
Rob Mahoney
Yeah.
- [40:30]
Joanna Robinson
He's got guest star status. Is this do we feel our shooter McGavin, our David Sims, he was born to be it.
- [40:37]
Rob Mahoney
He would be such a good shooter. McGavin.
- [40:39]
Joanna Robinson
Yeah.
- [40:39]
Rob Mahoney
Like, here's the thing. Owen Wilson is such a great talker that you need someone he's going to bounce off of that's going to like be the antidote to his kind of charisma. And we've already seen him like starting to make again these side bets with the competitors themselves and kind of insert himself into that dynamic. Who better to bounce off of than Tim Oliphant for that?
- [40:58]
Joanna Robinson
And Tim Oliphant knows a thing or two about acting opposite a charismatic guy with A gift of the gab.
- [41:04]
Rob Mahoney
He certainly does.
- [41:05]
Joanna Robinson
Okay, that's exciting. And then also, Ryan, Kira Armstrong is listed as a guest star. Ryan, Kara Armstrong, who we talked about recently because she's the new lead of the Buffy Vampire Slayer reboot. Question mark, whatever that is. Any, you know, any thoughts or feelings about how she might be used.
- [41:22]
Rob Mahoney
She's 15. Who is she in this show?
- [41:25]
Joanna Robinson
She's 15. Santi's 17.
- [41:27]
Rob Mahoney
Okay. I'm glad we talked about that, because one of the elements of this show that I think you just have to be along for the ride for is. So Santi's 17?
- [41:34]
Joanna Robinson
Yeah.
- [41:35]
Rob Mahoney
Presumably, I guess, summer. Is it summer. Did he graduate high school already? And he's, like, you know, a little advanced for his age.
- [41:42]
Joanna Robinson
I don't know.
- [41:43]
Rob Mahoney
But he, like, basically, the pitch is made as far as, like, price comes to the family, comes to Santi. He's like, I want to coach you. I want to take you on this tour to play in these tournaments. I think one of the good things about the Elena portrayal is, like, she is understandably very skeptical of all of this shit. Like, this is happening very fast.
- [41:59]
Joanna Robinson
Right?
- [41:59]
Rob Mahoney
This guy just showed up. I don't know who he is. He just got arrested. Here's his weird friend who's driving the RV. There's $100,000 in my lap, but, like, I kind of don't even want to take it. I'm so skeptical of this situation. But ultimately, this is a kid who's just, like, going on the road very, very quickly within the grand scheme of things, is not, like, leaving school behind. There's no conversation about, like, what about finals? You're just out there playing golf tournaments all of a sudden.
- [42:26]
Joanna Robinson
Was it the who that made you think about Almost Famous and William Miller getting home in time for graduation?
- [42:31]
Rob Mahoney
He promised he would not miss a.
- [42:32]
Joanna Robinson
Single exam, and he lied.
- [42:34]
Rob Mahoney
He did lie.
- [42:34]
Joanna Robinson
He lied. Yeah. At least his mom is on the road with him.
- [42:38]
Rob Mahoney
The.
- [42:38]
Joanna Robinson
The fact that Santi is 17. This. This zero. I just. It's the name more than anything else. I didn't mind the character necessarily, but, like, Zero.
- [42:49]
Rob Mahoney
It was a bummer because we. We don't, at least to my knowledge, like, hear her name in this episode or in these episodes, do we.
- [42:55]
Joanna Robinson
Yeah.
- [42:55]
Rob Mahoney
Someone calls her Zero.
- [42:57]
Joanna Robinson
Her boss calls her Zero.
- [42:58]
Rob Mahoney
That's. Oh, that's right. He comes to scold her after she. That whole sequence in which she's, like, gets to performatively pour the pitcher, or I guess the beer.
- [43:06]
Joanna Robinson
On the golf.
- [43:06]
Rob Mahoney
On the golf, bros. Yeah. Miss me? I Guess with that, I, I.
- [43:11]
Joanna Robinson
We've seen better.
- [43:12]
Rob Mahoney
We've. We've seen it done better. It doesn't really need to be done at all. There are much better ways to streamline and fast line a character.
- [43:18]
Joanna Robinson
I agree. I agree. It's been a bumpy introduction. I didn't mind her, like, conversation with Santi. And what I like about her is, like, so she is. That actress is in her late 20s. So we're not trying to say this is someone who is remotely near Santi's age.
- [43:35]
Rob Mahoney
Yeah.
- [43:36]
Joanna Robinson
But he does have kind of hearts in his eyes when he's looking at her.
- [43:39]
Rob Mahoney
You can tell.
- [43:40]
Joanna Robinson
Yeah.
- [43:40]
Rob Mahoney
So, like, she's not, she doesn't seem.
- [43:42]
Joanna Robinson
Uninterested in the 17 year old.
- [43:45]
Rob Mahoney
I don't know how old she is.
- [43:46]
Joanna Robinson
The actress is 28. That's.
- [43:49]
Rob Mahoney
Maybe she is uninterested. Well, here's the, here's maybe what I'm picking up on. There's, like, they have real chemistry in terms of their performance and how the characters will read that I don't really know.
- [43:58]
Joanna Robinson
Okay. I will wait to find out what age 0 is supposed to be before I pass judgment on it. But right now I'm like, I'm hoping that he has a crush on her so is more willing to listen to her. Admittedly good advice, you know? And then she just, like, likes him and is at loose ends and. Do they bring her on the team? Do they draft her to be on the, on the coaching team? Is she in the rv? Like, what? You know, I, I can't see any other way. We organically get her.
- [44:26]
Rob Mahoney
Yeah.
- [44:27]
Joanna Robinson
To every tourney going forward.
- [44:29]
Rob Mahoney
It's a little extracurricular in terms of, like, our understanding that she's cast in the show in a substantial way. But, like, I just don't, I don't understand how she wouldn't be on the rv.
- [44:36]
Joanna Robinson
Well, the episode ends with who's that? And then her boss saying, trouble.
- [44:44]
Rob Mahoney
Again. There's some things in the show that's like, why are they doing that? And yet I am perpetually charmed by it. I'm in. And here's the thing. We are clearly bumping on that character. I have hope that they will round her into something more closely resembling human form.
- [44:56]
Joanna Robinson
Yeah.
- [44:57]
Rob Mahoney
I do think she's important, though, as we're zeroing in on the dad demographic.
- [45:01]
Joanna Robinson
Zeroing in on. Yeah.
- [45:02]
Rob Mahoney
Wow. I just wandered straight into that. Right into that water hazard. Unfortunately, she's an important character for the dad demo. Like, as you're saying, if Apple is Target, if part of the audience are liberal dads. You also want dads across the aisle who look at this young woman talking about how are we all participating in the exploitation of labor? And then by comparison, identify more with Owen Wilson's character Price, as they are kind of put up across purposes. Like.
- [45:28]
Joanna Robinson
Right.
- [45:29]
Rob Mahoney
I think she's a natural philosophical tension point for the show in a way that is good for some audience members and frustrating for other audience members and for people like us. I just want a human to be clear.
- [45:40]
Joanna Robinson
I think I need to come up with. I think west coast dad is more what I want more than or coastal elite dad or something like that. More than. It's less political and more vibe. What I'm. What I'm trying to narrow down here, because I don't. I don't need it to be like liberal versus conservative. But I think there is just something dad centric about Apple, a lot of Apple programming that is somehow different from the dad centric program at. Over at Paramount. So listen, the dads are being served.
- [46:09]
Rob Mahoney
They are.
- [46:10]
Joanna Robinson
And. And we support them.
- [46:11]
Rob Mahoney
And you know what? Apparently I am too. Apparently my inner dad is being served. Joe. But one of the hurdles in this episode for Santi is like, what do you do when you're frustrated? Like when you're starting to spiral? Where do you go? What do you tell yourself? You know, we learned that Elena mentally checks out and goes to the beach.
- [46:28]
Joanna Robinson
They literally say happy place, which is the Happy Gilmore.
- [46:30]
Rob Mahoney
I mean, again, this is straight out of Happy Gilmore, straight into the mental heaven where Chubbs is playing the piano.
- [46:37]
Joanna Robinson
Julie Bowen has two pitchers of beer.
- [46:39]
Rob Mahoney
Two pitchers of beer. Scantily clad. Look, everyone's happy place is different. You know, we hear as well that Prices is like singing Cecilia to himself. Do you have a happy place, Joe? Do you have your own place you go to in moments of mental turmoil and anguish?
- [46:53]
Joanna Robinson
Yeah, yeah. It's actually genuinely. I should have a fun answer for this. Yeah, genuinely. It's like on. On the Pacific Coast.
- [47:01]
Rob Mahoney
Like, hell yeah.
- [47:02]
Joanna Robinson
Right by the ocean.
- [47:03]
Rob Mahoney
Rock rocky. Waves crashing.
- [47:05]
Joanna Robinson
Waves crashing.
- [47:05]
Rob Mahoney
I mean, that's some incredible whiteness.
- [47:07]
Joanna Robinson
How about you?
- [47:08]
Rob Mahoney
I am a little more nihilistic. I am a like, zoom out.
- [47:12]
Joanna Robinson
It's happy place. Well, why are you bringing nihilism to the happy place conversation?
- [47:17]
Rob Mahoney
I'm not trying to get happy. I'm trying to get calm.
- [47:19]
Joanna Robinson
Okay.
- [47:20]
Rob Mahoney
You know, and so I am zooming out a speck on a piece of land on a rock, hurtling through.
- [47:26]
Joanna Robinson
Yeah, it doesn't count at all.
- [47:27]
Rob Mahoney
Exactly. What do I mean to the grand scale of the universe. That's my happy place. Ultimately, what that says about me, I'm gonna leave to you and to Rene Russo to figure out.
- [47:36]
Joanna Robinson
Follow up question. At what point this season are we singing Cecilia?
- [47:45]
Rob Mahoney
Oh, yeah.
- [47:47]
Joanna Robinson
Is it an almost famous. Everyone in the RV is singing Cecilia.
- [47:52]
Rob Mahoney
This is the first thought.
- [47:53]
Joanna Robinson
Okay.
- [47:54]
Rob Mahoney
Turmoil in the rv?
- [47:55]
Joanna Robinson
Yeah.
- [47:56]
Rob Mahoney
I mean, maybe it is as simple as driving through a storm and it's like we got to all calm down. You know, everything's. Everyone's freaking out. But like, I mean, what are the alternatives to this?
- [48:03]
Joanna Robinson
That I would say leading up to it? In order to seed it properly, I would like to hear Owen Wilson sort of like whisper, Mutter, sing it to himself in order to calm down. But yeah, I'm, I'm just wondering if we're headed for like a tiny dancer moment. Santi doesn't even know the song Cecilia.
- [48:20]
Rob Mahoney
But he seemed interested in hearing it.
- [48:22]
Joanna Robinson
There's only like 20 lyrics to be clear. It's a lot of drum work in that song. Okay, so you're saying rv and when do we get it? Like mid mid season or is this an end of season? Is this a reconciliation moment?
- [48:35]
Rob Mahoney
I think it's going to be a getting over the hump, end of second act. So, like, is this a 10 episode season? Do we know that? 6, 6, 7. Somewhere in there.
- [48:45]
Joanna Robinson
Anything else you want to say about Stick or Tin Cup? Would you recommend people watch like, this is our question we both, we share with each other mid-90s golf movies, both expressing a little concern that they would not hold up in a 2026. 2025. That's not 2026. 2025 lens.
- [49:05]
Rob Mahoney
One wishes it were. Can we fast forward? For me, it's not even like, will it hold up in 2025? It's more like, I first saw this movie when I was 12 years old, right. And so I will always be 12 years old when I watch it. And so how will it stand up to you, Joanna Robinson, a normal adult person.
- [49:24]
Joanna Robinson
Yeah, well, the question about that is there's just too much cultural currency around Happy Gilmore for me to be able to judge it effectively.
- [49:35]
Rob Mahoney
Including, very importantly, the sequel coming out soon, which you are now caught up on all the appropriate lore for.
- [49:40]
Joanna Robinson
I can't wait. I understand the heckler, I understand the caddy. I understand everything. Are you too good for your home? Is something that I have said many, many times in my life.
- [49:49]
Rob Mahoney
Wow.
- [49:50]
Joanna Robinson
Kind of knowing it was a Happy.
- [49:51]
Rob Mahoney
Gilmore reference, but, like, you had osmosted.
- [49:53]
Joanna Robinson
Yeah, because like, my friends would Quote all the time. So it's like, it's a funny thing to say. The price is wrong, bitch. Is also, of course, an iconic Happy Gilmore ism that has made it into. Into my lexicon.
- [50:04]
Rob Mahoney
Rest in peace to Bob Barker. It's a real shame he can't be around for the sequel. Like, iconic performance in Happy Gilmore.
- [50:10]
Joanna Robinson
So I think that I, I had a great time with Happy Gilmore, knowing exactly what it would be.
- [50:17]
Rob Mahoney
Yes.
- [50:17]
Joanna Robinson
What were your Tin Cup? I mean, I know you liked it, but like, in terms of, would you recommend it to people who have not seen it before?
- [50:22]
Rob Mahoney
Would absolutely recommend it. I mean, you know, you brought up Bull Durham as far as like, coming from the same creative suite. Yeah, I think it hits the exact same sweet spot, one that we indulge in quite a bit here at the Ringer, which is like assigning cosmic divine meaning to the randomness of sports and to basically like our smallest obsessions. Right. Like taking this thing that you care about and all of a sudden it is a unifying theory of the universe. And like, Bull Durham is big on that too. Like the cosmic circumstances that bring people together and that cause them to like, orbit each other with and without sports. That, that element of Tin Cup, I think is great. I think the relationship with Hinton cup is great. The golf. Honestly, like, again, for someone who is not prone to love golf on screen, like, I need to be sold on it in the way that Happy Gilmore sells me on it. I loved it. Like, it is a purely crowd pleasing movie that I think would work for a lot of different people.
- [51:15]
Joanna Robinson
I also have to say, in the world of professional sports cameos, I find the pro golfers who show up in both Happy Gilmore and Tin cup to be very, very charming.
- [51:25]
Rob Mahoney
Pretty good.
- [51:26]
Joanna Robinson
Do you want to hear a story about how they got the golf pro golfer cameos in Tin Cup?
- [51:31]
Rob Mahoney
I would love nothing more.
- [51:32]
Joanna Robinson
Okay, so one of the producers on Tin cup, and I don't have his name right in front of me, is a pro golfer himself. And he plays the guy in the bar who like, does the announcing as. As Roy is trying to like, into the soda. Into the soda gun. So that guy is a. Is a real pro golfer and was a producer on the film and he wanted a bunch of pro golfers to show up in the movie, but he did not want to have to deal with agents and he did not want to have to pay them.
- [52:03]
Rob Mahoney
Yeah. So speaking of the exploitation of labor among the.
- [52:07]
Joanna Robinson
The pro golfers are doing fine, I think.
- [52:09]
Rob Mahoney
I think they're doing well. What these movies suggest and this show suggests is maybe they are doing fine. Joe.
- [52:14]
Joanna Robinson
Not up here, man.
- [52:15]
Rob Mahoney
Well, certainly not.
- [52:16]
Joanna Robinson
But again, in one of the golf podcasts that I listened to over this last week, he. He told the story about how in order to not have to deal with agents and get to the golfers directly at a tournament, he had Don Johnson and Kevin Costner show up for a dinner for the golf players wives and flirt with the wives so that they could convince the wives to tell their husbands to show up to be in Tin Cup. And that's why you have so many in Tin cup, which I think they got for a song. So, yeah, it's a great time.
- [52:52]
Rob Mahoney
Kevin Costner showing up to flirt with anyone is an incredibly powerful bribery tool. And I say that as someone, as, you know, Joe, like Kevin Costner. Not my personal particular brand.
- [53:01]
Joanna Robinson
I wanted to follow up here. I mean, I know we're here to talk extensively about Stick, but. But a bombshell you dropped on me recently was that you don't vibe with Kevin Costner.
- [53:08]
Rob Mahoney
I do. Not.
- [53:10]
Joanna Robinson
Much. Beloved by many ringer luminaries. Yeah, so. But you do like Bul Durham.
- [53:16]
Rob Mahoney
I do.
- [53:16]
Joanna Robinson
And you did enjoy Tin Cup. So what? And we. We've both not seen jfk. Are we allowed to admit that on a microphone?
- [53:22]
Rob Mahoney
I think that's okay.
- [53:23]
Joanna Robinson
What is it about Kevin Costner that doesn't usually work for you? And why does it work in these sports, in these two sports movies?
- [53:28]
Rob Mahoney
I would venture to guess it's part of what makes him very attractive to people, which is like the smarm. What reads to me as smarm and to other people as, like, confidence or a cockiness that's appealing to me. Doesn't work well with the fact that in his movies in a way that feels contractual to me, it's like he has to one up everybody. It's like even when he loses, he still gets to be right.
- [53:49]
Joanna Robinson
Yeah.
- [53:49]
Rob Mahoney
And so it's like when every movie kind of has that tone, I get a little worn down by it. And what works about Tin cup is like, he just loses a lot and he's a loser. He's very often quite wrong.
- [53:59]
Joanna Robinson
Yeah.
- [53:59]
Rob Mahoney
And so he gets the one up moments. But it's like you're doing this for the exact wrong reasons. You don't realize it. Every other character does. They're all trying to help you.
- [54:08]
Joanna Robinson
Yeah.
- [54:08]
Rob Mahoney
But you can't get out of your own way. Like, that's a version of Kevin Costner I get behind. He doesn't play that version very often.
- [54:13]
Joanna Robinson
I Was excited for you to see this because I feel like Roy McAvoy, his character in Tin cup, is. Is this a sneaky backdoor Tin cup podcast? Maybe. It's my favorite Costner performance.
- [54:24]
Rob Mahoney
Has there been a Tin Cuff rewatchables?
- [54:26]
Joanna Robinson
No.
- [54:26]
Rob Mahoney
I guess this is it. Or the pilot.
- [54:29]
Joanna Robinson
No, this is. This is our bid. Okay. This is our bit.
- [54:31]
Rob Mahoney
I have thoughts about Waffle House, about the Permian Basin. Like, we need to go deeper.
- [54:35]
Joanna Robinson
Okay. Okay. But he's such a perfect loser in this movie and a perfect loser that you want to root for.
- [54:42]
Rob Mahoney
Yes.
- [54:43]
Joanna Robinson
And I like Kevin Costner a lot. I love Bull Durham. It's one of my favorite movies. But this is my favorite Costner. Tin cup is a top five sports movie for me. And I'm just gonna say that that is a fact and a truth.
- [54:56]
Rob Mahoney
I have no objection whatsoever.
- [54:58]
Joanna Robinson
Love that.
- [54:59]
Rob Mahoney
And as far as the stick element, I think Owen Wilson plays a great loser, too. Yeah, he's always going to be at least a little bit likable, and they can kind of adjust that depending on what sort of character he's playing. But, yeah, that. That baseline charm, plus the fact that there's always something about him that's, like, over comp. Overly complimentary, overly flowery in his dialogue and a lot of his parts, it's like. Again, it's like you're a little full of it, but I want to hear you keep saying it, and I kind of believe it, and you make me want to believe it about myself.
- [55:25]
Joanna Robinson
And it's interesting to watch it because this is different from. How much of Loki did you watch it? So, like Mobius, his character in Loki is different because he doesn't look like Owen Wilson in that. Right. He's got different hair, still looks like Owen Wilson, but, like, he looks paternal in a certain way. He is playing a different. Not his usual Owen Wilson thing. He's got the laconic charm, but not. There's just something more put together and less scattershot about him being loan.
- [55:59]
Rob Mahoney
Yes, yes. This is a version, by contrast, where, like, Judy Greer's character praises him for wearing a clean shirt.
- [56:04]
Joanna Robinson
This is what I'm saying. So this is the Owen Wilson that we met in Wedding Crashers is Royal Tenenbaums. Owen Wilson is even some. A bit of Darjeeling Ltd. Owen Wilson. You know what I mean? Like, this is. This is the Owen Wilson we met decades ago. And I. I love watching him in this because he's got his, like, you know, beachy blonde hair, but it's decades later. Yeah. So what does that archetype do for us decades later? And. And to your point about the Judy Greer character, like, sometime this is a man child. Like, that's, that's, that's.
- [56:40]
Rob Mahoney
There's no. There's no two ways.
- [56:41]
Joanna Robinson
As is Kevin Costner, Tin cup, as is Adam Sandler.
- [56:45]
Rob Mahoney
And I can say this with professional certainty. Many professional athletes.
- [56:49]
Joanna Robinson
So, like, this is a man child, and sometimes I don't have patience for that. But there is something about having spent time with Owen Wilson that, like, I'm really invested in this man child, learning how to grow up. Yeah, I really want to see it.
- [57:04]
Rob Mahoney
You know, I think what's. What's so great about him as a performer and, you know, he's had many different lives playing all sorts of different parts, but kind of wandering to this stage in his career where he's done kind of the very, like, arch, sometimes campy, very stylized, like, West Anderson stuff, obviously, that you alluded to, but also the deep comedy like Wedding Crashers and we round the corner into something where it's like, I think maybe this started with more like Midnight in Paris era. Owen Wilson. I love that movie, which is a great performance, a great movie, and kind of gets to this idea of this. Of him having a lot of bluster, certainly a lot of bravado sometimes or insecurity sometimes, but like a deep interiority that I don't think a lot of comic actors just, like, bring to every performance. Like, there's a degree of, like, this guy is like, running from something or hiding something or fighting something in basically every role he ever plays. And recently that's become, I just want my kids back. Whether it's Mobius or in this case, in the case of this former golf pro who unfortunately lost his maybe young son.
- [57:59]
Joanna Robinson
I guess we'll find out that. I think that's a really good point. And I think to go back to. To go back to something like Darjeeling Limited, which is like, not by any stretch the best Wes Anderson movie, but is one that I actually return to a lot and think about a lot because it came at this really interesting crossroads with Owen Wilson's own life. And so there is forever this soulful nature to an Owen Wilson that, you know, goes beyond what a Luke Wilson can bring to the table. Luke Wilson can bring plenty. I like.
- [58:33]
Rob Mahoney
He's a soulful man himself, but.
- [58:35]
Joanna Robinson
But there's just like, something different about. I've been through it.
- [58:39]
Rob Mahoney
Yeah.
- [58:40]
Joanna Robinson
About Owen Wilson that brings us here to stick.
- [58:44]
Rob Mahoney
He's just a delightful scamp like I don't. I don't know. Say, like, Luke Wilson might be a little too. Like, when he gets sad, he gets kicked puppy. When Owen Wilson gets sad, it's like there's still something.
- [58:54]
Joanna Robinson
Needle in the Hay starts playing.
- [58:58]
Rob Mahoney
Big week for needle drops.
- [59:00]
Joanna Robinson
All right. Anything else you want to say about stick? Golf, sports?
- [59:05]
Rob Mahoney
Yeah.
- [59:05]
Joanna Robinson
Cinema stories for dads.
- [59:10]
Rob Mahoney
We covered a lot of ground, to be honest.
- [59:12]
Joanna Robinson
There's guys, small dogs.
- [59:14]
Rob Mahoney
I don't know how we're going to cover the show exactly. You know, we're covering this with three.
- [59:17]
Joanna Robinson
Episodes week to week.
- [59:18]
Rob Mahoney
We're not, probably not doing a week to week. It's a triple premiere, so that's why we're covering these first three episodes. I would encourage people to check it out again. I think a lot of people will like this show. Will it reach a Ted Lasso level of fame? That's a high bar to clear. Yeah, but personally, I would be down for it. I'm also just curious to see kind of how we want to continue to unpack this at all.
- [59:36]
Joanna Robinson
Yeah, we'll see how the. How the show goes and. And where. Feels like a natural point to check back in. We will. Speaking of sort of shows we're checking in on, our plan is for next week to check back in on Poker Face. There's been another four episodes for us to talk about, so we're excited to do that.
- [59:52]
Rob Mahoney
Anything else, I guess just email us@prestigetvpotify.com if you're watching this show. If you like this show.
- [59:58]
Joanna Robinson
How is Santi's golf swing? How is the golf on. On stick?
- [60:03]
Rob Mahoney
We're talking to you, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennesee. Like, we need golf dads. Some relatively expert testimonial that is above our pay grade.
- [60:12]
Joanna Robinson
Please do. And that's it. I'm Jonah Robinson, that's Rob Mahoney, and we'll see you soon. Bye.