Joe (1:54)

Harper and Yaz are reunited, but Whitney's in the wind and I don't know what's gonna happen next. So before we get into everything we want to get into today, I just want to start with a, like, top line question. Jodie Walker, did you like this episode of Industry? You're always hitting.

Jody Walker (2:07)

You're always hitting me with the tough ones, Joe.

Joe (2:09)

A hard curveball for you.

Jody Walker (2:11)

Yeah, I loved it. It was awful and I loved it. I will say, I don't know what it. I have such an emotional relationship with the show and, like, right at the top, it was so intense that it was like taking me a minute to get into it. It felt like getting into a fight and like, I didn't quite have it in me yet, you know, like I had to get my dukes up and I had to get ready and it took me a second energetically, and then it was just everything this season's been doing. It was government, it was finance, it was crime, it was espionage, it was hidden phones, it was Whitney and Henry doing their ever present pumping each other up. I loved it.

Rob Mahoney (2:55)

Jodi, how many fights have you been in? How active have those dukes been?

Jody Walker (2:59)

I can fight, Rob, I'm sure you.

Rob Mahoney (3:01)

I have zero doubt Jody can fight

Jody Walker (3:05)

as the not Yaz of this podcast. I can fight.

Joe (3:09)

Rob, Honey, journalist extraordinaire, how'd you feel about this episode and the way that journalism was portrayed inside of it?

Rob Mahoney (3:15)

Big questions for one. Never go into a room, have a whole ass meeting, and then say all of that was off the record. Not how it works. Not how it works. Don't do that. Media Training 101 Seriously, I did think this episode was a lot like there are always things to recommend about every industry episode. I thought the melodrama of this one got a smidge thick for me at times. And I don't know why characters would just randomly start talking like they were in a great American novel, but. But they sure did all the time throughout this episode.

Joe (3:44)

Who did you think was the most? Because I actually thought this was like less sort of therapy speechified than some of our previous episodes this season. So what it what, who was like the worst offender in that regard for you?

Rob Mahoney (3:54)

I don't even think it was the therapy speak. I think it was just like these very overwrought like Wilhelmina getting into this big deal about snake oil salesmen and sermons sounding the same. It's like I'm all for stylized dialogue. I know industry dips into this stuff more successfully at some times than others. But even like the parallel har Yaz stuff during our final like bar scene about being a breathing example of wanting to be more and or less, I

Jody Walker (4:21)

was just like, oh, do you mean when I cried?

Rob Mahoney (4:24)

I'm not saying it's not effective.

Jody Walker (4:26)

And do you have any comments on female friendship at this time?

Rob Mahoney (4:29)

Rob Mahoney I actually do. I have apologies to make to both of you, to Harper and to Yaz. I think it's beautiful and it's forced me to reconsider my own priorities in life and the way that I now am orienting everything I do to someday get to a point where I can have a drink with a friend. Soundtracked by Enya Celebrating the fact that we kind of quietly cheer for each other's downfall.

Joe (4:50)

Here's here's the thing, Rob, and you and I talked about this a little bit. A little bit off pod last week where I was I was asking you, like, if you had any toxic, like, friendships or relationships in your life, and you looked in the eye and you said, not really. And here's the thing, Rob. I think you just might be too well adjusted for. I think you just might have.

Jody Walker (5:07)

Don't think that's, that's a secure attachment style, babe.

Joe (5:10)

Too wholesome and well adjusted for, for. To, to. Here's, here's, here's how I wanted to relate it to you, Rob. If it's not something you've experienced in your actual wholesome life, then perhaps can you think of it in terms of like a Boyd Crowder, Rayla Givens, we dug together, sort of frenemy dynamic. Is that, is that working for you?

Rob Mahoney (5:33)

It's of course working for me. Like, I understand toxic relationships in all of their various forms as portrayed to me by media. I just thought, I don't know, I thought the differences between these two at this point in time might be a little too irreconcilable, and that is clearly not the case. Like, when, when push came to shove, Harper was Yazzie's like, escape raft. And that's a powerful thing that's not lost on me.

Jody Walker (5:56)

Well, I mean, I, I, I'm with your original point that this was very much an episode about language. Like, I, I, I, I liked that at times it made the point that actually language is just as powerful as money and is actually the thing that's just in a show about narrative and how we use it. And that in the final analysis, it really does come down to how we frame things. And, you know, there were the, some of the sort of overwrought lines, of course, when Wilhelmina said sermons and snake oil kind of sound the same, I said, I've been saying this in not as beautiful of a way, so thank you. But I thought the really simple moments of language worked really well. Like when Henry's like, oh, do you mean fake? Or when Yaz is like, or, or when Jenny is like, oh, lies. And, you know, Yaz is like, it's. You get what you take. I liked those moments in the episode a lot.

Joe (6:54)

Rob, if you ever want to wound someone deeply, will you send them a large bouquet of red roses and say, you, Tori in their card to them? Is that a good weapon?

Rob Mahoney (7:06)

It is. Getting someone right where they live, there's no doubt. And I guess how do we feel about that version of female friendship? Or at least it's like a protege mentor kind of thing. Slightly different, but it's like the two women in this episode who see everything on the board as transactional, basically at all times kind of win the day. And the two women who at least seem like at times to engage in things in somewhat good faith, at least the kinds that politics will allow, one ended up with her, you know, a horse head in her bed, and the other one with a bouquet of roses and betrayal. So I. I don't know what to make of all of that.

Jody Walker (7:40)

Oh, now you're talking about mentorship in corporate America and I guess government. So that's actually a whole different thing.

Rob Mahoney (7:45)

Oh, you're right.

Joe (7:47)

All right, before we get into. I mean, we already got fairly deep here, but I just want to do some rapid fire. Well, actually, that we got from the listeners really quickly. Ramoni, if someone wants to send a. Well, actually our way, where can they send it?

Rob Mahoney (7:59)

They can for sure send it to harpsichord, strap on gmail dot com. Or if that's too difficult for you or you're on a work computer, prestigetvpotify.com will also do just fine.

Joe (8:10)

So a couple musical notes. The Gilbert and Sullivan that we heard Henry singing in the shower last week is, of course, something that Charles Hanani also sang on his yacht right before he went overboard. So this is another haunting connection for Yasmin between her father and her husband. He was certainly doing a Charlestonati impression inside of this episode, and he was yelling in her face and telling her she didn't matter. So yikes. Musically connect as well. The Whitney Houston connection, which I, I'm like, I'm a fan of our, like, discussion about whether or not our Whitney named himself after Whitney Houston. But some folks wanted to point out also that Patrick Bateman in American Psycho has a whole speech about Whitney Houston, which is just like something we should definitely mention because given that Whitney's last name in this show is a name plucked from American Psycho, all American Psycho connections are on the table year. So there's that we talked about Tom Ripley without mentioning that Max Minella, who plays the aforementioned Whitney, his father, Anthony Minga, directed the talented Mr. Ripley. That could have been something we would have mentioned, but we didn't.

Rob Mahoney (9:15)

Yeah, could have been.

Joe (9:16)

And, and last but not least on the, well, actually front, nobody will actually lead me on this, but I'm going to. Well, actually myself. Wow. I horribly mispronounced the lead actress of this show's name. Jody, like, gently said it correctly later in the episode. I think I said Mahala, but it's Myhala is the name, of course, of the incredible performer who plays Harper and I'm just gonna. Well, actually myself on that one. So those are all of our. Well, actuallys this episode, and we didn't get anything else. Sort of like, really, that I want to dive into. What are you gonna say, Rob?

Rob Mahoney (9:48)

I'm just proud of you, Joe. I mean, it's really. You and that one guy on the tender board are the only people who are pro accountability in either of these spaces. So we salute you alone.

Jody Walker (9:58)

Dissenting voice, Joanna Robinson.

Joe (10:01)

All right, so let's start with Yaz and Henry and the Charles trauma that haunts this conversation that they have. Jodi, what did you think of this opener?

Jody Walker (10:11)

Oh, okay. I mean, this is what I'm saying. This is what I'm saying. It was like getting in a fight. It was like being in this fight. And it was tough to come straight into all of this yelling. And it. It feels intentional for that to be difficult and seeing. I was gonna say this marriage torn asunder, but it's. It's hardly ever been fully intact either. But this kind of reversal of, you know, at the Henry's birthday episode when Yasmin is yelling at Henry and he flinches back, and you wonder, like, what have I missed? What's been happening in this relationship? And then in this episode when, I mean, he's already yelling in her face and he does the final hit and she flinches back. Such, like, an excellent natural reaction. And it. It. And in that moment, you wonder not about that reaction, but about what comes next. Yes, that then she's able to. Then Yasmin gets on board. Of course, you're right. Does she believe him? Is she, you know.

Joe (11:16)

Right.

Jody Walker (11:16)

No. Joanna saying.

Joe (11:18)

Yeah, that. That soothing coping. I'll say whatever it takes to get this person to calm down so I can get out of this conversation. We get the. Like. Rob, I don't know if either you or Sigmund Freud wants to weigh in on the fact that, like, Henry sort of snuggled up to her bosom. And then later in the episode, Whit's like, why are you still in your mother's teat? Sort of.

Jody Walker (11:40)

He is always in her lap, stays in her lap, but he passes out,

Joe (11:46)

content that someone will take care of this for him. And she stays up all night figuring out what she's going to do next. I. I love Henry's absolute meltdown in this scene where he's talking about the way in which the world needs to reflect his goodness back to him. The way in which this idea that he's been, like, so insulated from consequences in his life which is something that Yasmin says later to Norton, but, like, that, like, basic consequences feel like wild injustices to him. Like, this is just someone who has never had to face any consequences in his life. And then all of a sudden, he's like, what is. What is this actual accountability? Robin, any thoughts or feelings about this you want to mention?

Rob Mahoney (12:26)

I mean, it's a very effective scene in that way. Like, it is. It's hard not to put yourself, like, squarely in Yaz's perspective here just because Henry flies off the rails so fast. And he's the one who ultimately walked straight into Whitney's arms, who triple leveraged their finances to rely basically entirely on tender. And once things go to shit, like, he can only think of himself, like, is really about, like, his own personal legacy. How dare Yaz even contemplate what this would mean for her, both as an employee of this company in a prominent position and also the person married to Henry, how this would affect her life. I find it really effective. I also think overall, like, one of my favorite things about this episode is the way this works as the origin point for the sort of, like, parallel tracks that they're on all episode. Right? Yaz is a woman of action, and her plan is, like, flawed, but she has a plan and is proactive and is going after it. Henry just kind of, like, sort of doubts Whitney, but also just kind of follows in his coattails on yet another plan he's, like, way too credulous about. And in doing so, they believe in us.

Joe (13:29)

He said believe in us one last time. What did you ask for, Rob?

Rob Mahoney (13:31)

I mean, really, I have no notes whatsoever. A guy who tells the truth every. Every chance he gets, but the fact that these two are just, like, not in communication, even down to the fact that when Yaz tenders her own resignation, if you'll pardon, it doesn't bother to tell Henry about the fact that that's coming whatsoever.

Jody Walker (13:48)

I mean, at the point at which you find yourself screaming, I am a good person one inch from your wife's face, it might be a sign that insisting that everyone believes you're a good person is right. You're doing the right thing. You're in a good place. And just on the wardrobe front, the fact that they had him in that demeaning tender T shirt for the entire conversation was just perfect.

Rob Mahoney (14:12)

Well, on that line, though, the I am a good person, and the world shall tell that back to me. Otherwise, what am I doing here? It's just, like, an amazing bit of obliviousness and self Awareness rolled up into one that I, in a way I honestly find like pretty admirable. I don't know how you get to that exact place, but really only Henry can do it.

Jody Walker (14:31)

Well, he is so Henry because his whole thing is he has enough self awareness to know that he should be good like that. This is the thing we should aim for. And there aren't many characters like that in industry. Like, we really do not see Yaz or Harper aiming for that. When they are aiming for moral, they are simply doing something with their eyes so that other people will believe that they are moral or empathetic. Henry genuinely wants to be good without any of the hard work to back it up because he's never had any consequences. And it's an interesting dynamic on that

Joe (15:04)

language front that you guys that you both raised so beautifully earlier. I thought the juxtaposition of one of my new favorite characters. Just someone to really admire. Kevin Rawle, played by the great Pip Torrance, who runs this thinly veiled version of the sun for the. For the Norton Company. He calls Yaz a hard bird. And then later in the episode she tells Harper, I'm so fucking soft. I'm so, so soft. Right? So hardbird versus so soft. And those both of those things can be true about Yaz at the same time. This idea and something that Marcel Bella has said in a bunch of interviews is this idea of Yaz like cosplaying power this season, especially here at the end. I do need a full shoulder pad report from Jodie Walker in her second. But like something I really, I don't have to approve of her actions in this episode to admire them. And I admire the way in which she sort of Walter White esques, gets herself out, you know, finds her own parachute. I really feel like she. There's a version of this story in which she straps Henry to the parachute with her. If he said, help, what are we gonna do? You're necessary to me. Help me. People do care about what happens to you and me and us. Let's figure this out together. Because she uses the weapons that are in his arsenal, his family's media company, you know, and the fact that she uses his like tools for her own salvation leaves him twisting in the wind. And we'll see what happens if anything happens to him. The fact that she uses the things that were weaponized against her last season, which was the Norton Media Group and all of that, the fact that she, she is wielding so much power in this episode because she's, I mean, with, with Harper's consent because it benefits Harper as well. But she's using Harper as a tool, which means that, like, Harper then goes to Jim's editor, Burgess. So Burgess is doing basically Yasmin's bidding. But what happens with Lisa is Yasmin's bidding, Right. Henry and Winnie is all like, Yaz's like, architecture design. And so, like, I'm just. I like her finding her power. Even if I'm like, I don't approve of your actions, but I approve of you finding control and power where you can when you've felt vulnerable and powerless previously. Jodi, what do you think of Yaz's moves here?

Jody Walker (17:32)

Well, what we have here is a naturally born PR girly who was trying for too long to be a finance girly. It has, of course, you know, when she was going comms, when she was being put in, like, head of comms, we were like, what is happening here? This, she is not comms, but this is what Yasmin is good at. It is in this case, what she is especially good at when it serves her. When you are in, you know, public relations, you are in fact working for other people. But when she's sharpening her skills because she needs them to work for her, it makes a lot of sense. And Yasmin's shrink that she sort of calls on sometimes, but refuses to acknowledge because, unlike Henry, she lacks so much self awareness. Unless completely pushed into a corner, she's a sponge. Like, it's what people have always admired and been jealous of about her. She speaks. Speaks six different languages. She is a natural networker. She brings people into her orbit and keeps them there. And if she could see that as a strength instead of her burden to bear and call on when she has to, maybe she could use it for good. But mostly she will use it to get out of the bad situation she's gotten herself into.

Rob Mahoney (18:49)

Yeah, it's clear by the end of this episode she's starting to at least understand that part of herself as an incredible asset. And it's kind of pitching herself to Jennifer Bevan as like, you know, let me know if I can help get you out of future jams like this. To which she's basically told, go fuck yourself. I didn't want you to do any of this in the first place.

Joe (19:04)

Yeah, you don't want a government job anyway. Come on. Like, that's.

Rob Mahoney (19:07)

She certainly does not. Yeah, but like, in the. This, this whole episode is like a race of who can tell the best, most compelling story the fastest, and Yaz wins. Like, she Wins because she is driven, because she knows how to do it, because she knows what buttons to push. And, like, that's hard to knock, even if it is, as you said, Joe, like, put to ends that we may not ultimately agree with.

Joe (19:26)

And, you know, and like she herself is.

Jody Walker (19:28)

Is.

Joe (19:29)

Let's talk about this Norton. This conversation she has with Norton, a few conversations, but, like, the one on the phone, specifically where she gets off and she's, like, genuinely grief stricken. I think with what has happened here. I think a question I saw a lot of people asking after this episode is, like, what? We understand why Yasmin did what she did. Why did Norton, Henry's uncle, like, throw him under the bus this way? And I thought it was interesting, that phone conversation where they sound so much more like, you know, like defeated parents, like a mother and father at the end of their rope with a kid who just, like, keeps fucking up and keeps fucking up. And is Yaz spinning, like, a very specific narrative and using language that she knows that Norton has, like, concerns about and will respond to? Yes, but at the same time, I think that Norton, his reaction to me was more. The way I can explain it to myself is that he's like, let's have him hit rock bottom and see if that's something that works for him. What do you think, Rob?

Rob Mahoney (20:26)

I think. I mean, we get on the previously on this flashback to the Henry line of, like, I am pretty sure my wife doesn't love me. And I think there's a lot in this episode to dispute that fact. I think Yasmine does care about Henry and perhaps love him in a certain kind of way. But as we talked about, she's kind of been aware since at least episode two of this season that she is on her own ever since. Henry's like, but what if we had a kid to solve all of our problems? She's like, well, maybe I need to find my way out of basically any jam we get into. And so she's doing things that are damaging to him. Obviously, that will be painful to him. But I think she's also put forth, like, a pretty reasonable effort to get him out of, like, the perpetual bender that Whitney has him in. And there really is something to the parallel. This guy who has struggled with substance abuse, who's just kind of like, chasing Whitney on this high around the world to save a company that barely even exists anymore. Like, there is a certain kind of spiraling quality that's echoing that where Henry is enabling Whitney in so many ways. And Yaz has tried to Pull him out of it by giving him a dose of reality. He didn't want that. And so is this not, like, the harshest and coldest dose of reality of all, which is to, you know, maybe face a single consequence?

Joe (21:35)

Perhaps.

Jody Walker (21:35)

But when you put yourself in that savior position, like Yaz has and like Uncle Alexander kind of has, you then have to protect yourself most in order to save this other person who is putting themselves in harm's way, in which case you are ultimately sacrificing them as well. It's. I think that she cares about Henry, but I think that when a love starts like that, it's sort of impossible to know what love is and what's. And what's driving anything. Certainly nothing is selfless. No.

Rob Mahoney (22:11)

Absolutely not.

Joe (22:13)

And I do think it's interesting that part of her pitch to Norton among, like, many moments inside of this episode is, you know, talking about the fam. I'm putting the family first. Right. And does that feel like it's a contradiction when you're, you know, leaving your husband out to dry, throwing him under the bus, whatever you prefer. But, like, I think it goes back to this line that we hear from Wilhelmina in this episode, which is. Has shown up in every single season of industry, which is the institution doesn't suffer. Right. This is an Adlerism in season one that Harper repeats back to Adler in season two that Eric repeats back to Adler in season three, as he is fucking him over. And Wilhelmina's like, here's the. Put it on the merch at Purepoint, this is what we do. But, like, this idea, you know, what are the various institutions that we're protecting who, like Ricky Martin with a Y, his priority is protecting, you know, the PM against any damage. So we gotta throw Lisa under the bus here. And, like, if Norton's mission is to protect the larger sense of the family, and in doing so, in protecting their larger reputation, in needing Henry to hit rock bottom here, is there a way you can sort of square those two ideas? What do you think, Jodie?

Jody Walker (23:29)

No, I don't know. These people are driving me around in circles and trying to. I mean, all I could think was like, I want to know Wilhelmina's story. I want to know how she.

Rob Mahoney (23:46)

I want to know her McDonald's. You know, like, I want to know her McDonald's order.

Joe (23:49)

We got it. That was like a. Oh, I know.

Jody Walker (23:52)

That was a crispy Diet Coke. I could tell from the Foley art.

Joe (23:55)

Yes.

Jody Walker (23:56)

You see, I think. And there's always a chance that you get behind the scenes, and it's just as unseemly, but, like, she follows this tag sort of the institution doesn't suffer, but to see her come out so, so light and airy from these people spinning out of control, on the verge of going to prison, on the verge of their families going into financial ruin, or on the verge of great successes, and she's just like, oh, yeah, I just leveraged you for a deal that we were making. And this is my, like, congratulations, you know, double cheeseburger. And in another phone call, we see her in, like, her very beautiful bathroom, doing her skin care. And I just wanted to know how you operate in this world in a way that much like Rob Mahoney seems, you know, very balanced, very well adjusted, and, you know, maybe how we could get that messaging and maybe that therapist to Yaz and Harper.

Rob Mahoney (24:53)

I don't know how I feel about being the Wilhelmina of this podcast and.

Jody Walker (24:56)

Oh, you should feel very good about that, Rob.

Joe (24:59)

You love a crispy Diet Coke.

Rob Mahoney (25:00)

I mean, that is nothing you love more. That much is certainly true. And, you know, maybe in my own way, I am like, like the greedy McDonald's consuming American, you know, just counterpointed to all of this. So we are who we are.

Joe (25:13)

You mentioned Jodi, you mentioned Wilhelmina's lovely bathroom. I feel like this is as good a time as any to give us the fashion report on this episode. What would you like to. Who's got the most powerful look? Whose shoulder pads are doing the most to communicate their sort of level of boss bitchiness to us?

Jody Walker (25:30)

Well, something I've really been enjoying about this season is the way that we see Harper repeat her outfits. Um, it's not something that's done in television a lot, and when it is, it usually has meaning and, like, it really conveys that this is a young woman who has gotten some really important pieces into her wardrobe and just like any other normal woman would repeat them over the course of several months. So this sort of like, neoprene corset top that's very powerful that she's wearing at the beginning of the episode. I think we've seen her wear another time love that she ended out at. In. Ended up out at the club in like a business halter top. It was like a double breasted halter top. And you mentioned the, you know, the meeting with Kevin and. And now Yaz in her PR girly era and really in her sort of hardbird era, like, but also soft also, you know, being very soft to Jenny. This is a friendship for family.

Joe (26:33)

I think Hardbird era is so aspirational. Honestly absolute.

Jody Walker (26:38)

Am I not wearing a turtleneck today? I'm trying but the way that they seem to be conveying this hard bird but sort of hiding it with a softness thing is that she is wearing a cropped double breasted blazer which is not something you see a lot.

Joe (26:53)

It's also like quite a rounded shoulder on that on that cropped du blazer.

Jody Walker (26:57)

She was softening it right up.

Joe (26:58)

I also think Jenny's Jenny pairs her blazer with like a long pleated skirt. Like this is her her particular look which I thought was really interesting. So

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Jody Walker (28:28)

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Joe (28:56)

may apply on the politics front on Like Lisa Jenny Ricky Martin. And then we get the return for me, long anticipated and awaited return of Edward Holcroft, of Sebastian Stefanowitz, someone whose politics I do not agree with, but an actor who I really admire. Nope, nope. It's not for me.

Rob Mahoney (29:14)

If you say so, Joe. I don't know. I see some similarities.

Joe (29:17)

Yeah, you know me. But how do, Rob, how do you feel about, like, how much politics has taken over this season? Or do you anticipate it as, like, as the show leaning even further into that going forward? Like, what do you think?

Rob Mahoney (29:30)

I like this portrayal of it because I think this episode and this season tapped into some interesting things on the political side as far as what naivety looks like. And the idea, again, we've been talking about truth and messaging all throughout the season in this episode. Like, ultimately, the things that are levied against Lisa are the things that Jennifer actually did. And so it's like the truth is weaponized to an extent. It's just pointed in a different direction as far as who's held accountable for that truth. And I think accusing Lysa, as she is in this episode, of being herself, like a little too romantic about the political process, I think is fair. Like, she was naive enough to deputize Jennifer in the capacity she did, and that was ultimately her undoing, even as Jennifer herself was naive enough to both get and be resentful of the way she was played and then resent the fact that someone saved her from being played in the first place. So I, I, there's a lot to unpack with this whole storyline, but I like the way it kind of nestles into the world of manipulation that industry treads on so well.

Jody Walker (30:28)

Well, and it, it makes it so that being romantic in this world is kind of just having good intentions. Like, these really were not women who intended to do anything wrong. These are people who were manipulated by what, oh, what does Ginny say about. She says journalism shouldn't be about myth making for an aristocratic class, which sure. Could anyone think of that line on the spot. No. But quite a banger. Really, really got me. Really got me to think.

Joe (31:07)

But I love how Kevin's like, what a fucking idiot. He's like, yeah, that's exactly what it is. Are you kidding me?

Jody Walker (31:13)

What a romantic. What a dummy. No wonder she's in this position. No wonder she's landed herself here. And then to see him admiring Yasmin for the way that she's about to twist this narrative, twist this truth, twist this story. It is a harsh look, an unromantic look at reality.

Rob Mahoney (31:32)

I do love the way that Jennifer is someone who has the survival instincts enough to set the meeting and then just doesn't have the stomach to see literally any of it through, but also doesn't even stop to consider what the repercussions of having the meeting would be. And I was kind of waiting for the other shoe to drop with that, but I guess there is none, or at least there was none this week.

Joe (31:50)

I mean, we've got one more episode to go.

Rob Mahoney (31:52)

We certainly do. Yeah. Winning in episode seven is probably not, like, the safest place to be.

Joe (31:56)

That is why I'm very worried. I mean, we'll get. We'll come back to Harper and Yaz, but like this Kumbaya moment in the penultimate episode of the season. Tough.

Jody Walker (32:06)

Oh, I would call it tentative and mostly driven by Molly.

Joe (32:09)

Really, really tough. I do want to call out. So, like, Edward Holcroft in this role, you know, he shows up on this, you know, TV program. And Pip Torrens, who was incredible on the crown, kind of misused on succession, but is like, just like an absolute closer of an actor. Like, I actually don't think you see seed these kinds of actors into your show if you're not gonna, like, really use them. And with only one episode left, I just. It really feels like an as yet to be greenlit season five sort of seeding of various characters that we can maybe keep our own. So if we've got the tabloid editor and the Reform Party politician, like, you know, how much are we gonna move into the slimier parts of these. Of these industries as we. As we go forward in a future season? I don't have an answer to that, but it kind of feels just all based on the actors. It kind of feels like that might be where they're going.

Rob Mahoney (33:06)

Well, even just with the inevitable creep of this story, it's like the three ways in which we're zooming out are on politics, on the journalistic aspects as well. And as we kind of are learning more and more about, like, what's in it for Russian operatives to be involved in a company like Tender, which I would say.

Jody Walker (33:21)

Data set. You know all about data sets.

Rob Mahoney (33:24)

All of a sudden, that big old list of who was paying who for what, porn, payment plans feels like a particularly squeezable enterprise for our Russian friends.

Jody Walker (33:33)

I think that this episode, even though it was. It was a lot, as Rob noted, like, I think what I really liked about it at the end was that the. The politics of this season and the sort of overwhelming British media Corporation of this season finally clicked into place for me. I was kind of like, I think I understand what's going on a little bit. Still real loose on the finance. There was a moment when we go back to. To Tao Stern after it does seem like, you know, Tinder's going under, the stock's gonna plummet, whatever. And Harper goes. I'm glad to see we're all speaking the same language. And at the exact same time, in my head, I was like, I literally have no idea what they're talking about.

Joe (34:14)

I just have to track, like, how agitated is Kwabana when he's erasing things on the whiteboard? And then. Then I understand, like, basically.

Jody Walker (34:21)

And he was grinning ear to ear.

Rob Mahoney (34:23)

He was trying.

Jody Walker (34:24)

And that was helpful to me.

Rob Mahoney (34:25)

Yeah, Exposition, Kwabina. I mean, really? This is what the whiteboard was deployed for.

Joe (34:29)

Exactly. Yes. Okay, Jody, hard hitting question for you. Oh, boy. Is Whitney dead or is he alive? What do you think?

Jody Walker (34:40)

This is tough. We just got to, you know, we're the ones who make the bets, so I just got to make a bet. I think he's alive. It just. To me, I know he got the big threats. I know escape is not an option. It's not as well conveyed to him by several scarier men than he. But there was something about him that still made me think that he could escape or that he could be sucked into the larger organization and not that he was killed and they left his phone behind as a fun little clue. What do you think?

Joe (35:19)

Well, I would just say I don't think Industry is the kind of show where at the beginning of an episode, he's like, if you see me without this phone, I'm dead. And then we see him without his phone, and he's dead. Like, I would be really disappointed if that was the case. What do you think, Rob?

Rob Mahoney (35:32)

I think he's still alive. I think a couple things for one, this episode overall makes a very compelling case that to whatever extent Whitney was ever a, like, I'm three moves ahead of everyone game player, that time has passed, and now he's doing, like, whatever he needs to do to get through today. Basically. He doesn't strike me as someone who has, like, a lot of rope to plan ahead beyond the moves he's already made. So I just don't think he had, like, a separate exit strategy with a different phone and a different removable SIM card. So I don't think he's done it on his own. And I don't think not to take the Russians at their Word here. But it does kind of suit them to keep him alive to face the consequences of everything that happens with Tender. It's like, right? If you can pinpoint the whole Tender quagmire on this, like, opportunistic American guy who's committing all this fraud as opposed to Russian interference, like, that's a pretty compelling story to tell in its own way. So I think he's kind of ducked out a side door to go somewhere. But I think he is, without question coming back for the finale and will probably face some pretty heinous consequences himself.

Jody Walker (36:31)

Oh, yeah. When he's in like, the big Suburban of death and he's like, so if Tinder dies, I die. And they're like, you wish, babe. Like, absolutely not. Escape is a fantasy. Even the escape of death. Like, you have gotten yourself into this one. And I love. I mean, I. I hate to say that I love these guys, but I. I love.

Joe (36:51)

Oh, the Russians.

Jody Walker (36:52)

Yeah, the Russians.

Rob Mahoney (36:53)

Oh, yeah.

Jody Walker (36:54)

Love them. The, the. The line of just act like the great lie of your life is not that different from its only truth. You're world class at that performance now find the version of yourself who remembers it. And this is so mirrored to things we have heard Whitney tell Henry. And now these big scary guys are telling this to Whitney. And it's just like, can you believe that when you are a person who uses other people as tools that you might be a tool to someone else?

Joe (37:29)

Can you believe can never happen here's

Jody Walker (37:31)

that the world might work like that?

Joe (37:32)

Here's a question now, inside of an episode where several people are mocked for being too romantic, I'm going to bring this romantic notion to the table. Is there any version of this story where Whitney kicked Jonah out of Tender so, like, publicly that he could not possibly be blamed for anything that that goes on here? That there was like a way to kind of save this guy who Max Minghilla has said in interviews, like, Jonah actually does matter to him. So, like, was that horrible knifing actually salvation of some kind?

Jody Walker (38:12)

No.

Joe (38:13)

Okay.

Rob Mahoney (38:13)

No,

Jody Walker (38:16)

Rob. Go on. Rob the romantic. Go on.

Rob Mahoney (38:20)

As someone. Look, I just have no choice but to try to believe in male friendship at this point.

Jody Walker (38:24)

Sure, yeah. You gotta have a life wrapped outta here.

Rob Mahoney (38:27)

It's really all I got. And Henry and Whitney are not the most compelling evidence on that particular point. No. So I will, for one, I'll say I am susceptible to Whitney's whole deal. Like, I find him to be such a captivating character and, like, you know, he's a snake. But I Will watch him slither around all day. And so if you tell me there is just the slightest, softest underbelly for his old pal Jonah, where he did kick him overboard. Yeah. So he could continue to do what the Russians asked in terms of the bidding with Nintendo, but also to save his, like, maybe only one friend in the world. I am romantic enough to believe that notion, Joe, but this is how I end up. In a Russian body bag somewhere.

Jody Walker (39:08)

I am realistic enough to believe that Whitney would try to sell that story to Jonah at some point if it served him something.

Joe (39:15)

Yeah, sure. Fair enough. Something that I. That I sort of did a double take across. Various interviews, both Kit Harrington and Max Minghella have talked about the way that Henry views Whitney as a father figure. And I was like, that's super weird, given their sexual dynamics. But then I remembered the. Like, when ghost dad shows up at the beginning of the season, there was a real vibe between the two of them. So I'm like, okay, I guess if, like, if Henry is just, like, snuggling yaz as if she's his mom and, like, you know, like, letting a father figure of a kind watch him shower, then this is just where we're living inside of this season of industry, so.

Rob Mahoney (39:53)

Oh, Henry, Henry, you poor, naive, chiseled fail lord. Like, cannot tell top from bottom. Well, I guess in literally every sense. I mean, come on. It's just. It's a disaster, everything that's going on with him. And frankly, he has dug his own grave.

Jody Walker (40:08)

Yeah. Early May. We'll see. I think that even in this episode, as we see, like, Henry's whole worldview falling apart, his life falling apart, his Tinder stock not doing well, he still is looking at Whitney in this sort of, like, admiring. I know, fascinated way. And it is that kind of fascination you have with your dad, where you're like, how does he do that? How does he lift that? How does he turn the lawnmower, whatever with this guy? I likewise find fascination with this type of person. I love a cult leader. I love a scammer. I want to understand how their mind works, because my mind can't work like that. And when you see Henry over and over being like, no one would ever think of this as the solution. How is your mom. How do you. How do you think like this in this circumstance? And then just going along with it, even though it is clearly sort of abnormal and. And Whitney, you know, as a lover of scammers, like, he.

Joe (41:17)

He.

Jody Walker (41:17)

It. It always brings to mind Elizabeth Holmes, and there is this idea in this or. Or these types of Billy McFarland, whoever.

Joe (41:24)

Is that why the turtleneck is black today?

Jody Walker (41:27)

Yes, that is why I have worn my own Elizabeth Holmes scamming turtleneck. Red lip comes next week. Is that there are these people who, they have the passion, they have the drive if that you think, like if they could just dedicate it to something worthwhile, could they do it? Or is the lie part of it is like needing to follow what's not real and needing to make it up part of it. And that's why Whitney in this situation can kind of just keep swimming through. And Henry is spiraling out of control.

Joe (42:02)

I want to take us to Harper and Yaz. I have two favorite line deliveries in this episode from Harper. It's what memo?

Jody Walker (42:18)

So good. As I was writing it in my notes, I was like, how do I catalog how this sounded? I went with really long ellipsis. What memo?

Joe (42:30)

What memo? Really good. And then for. Yeah, as a much more serious note, when she says to Harper at the bar, and they're once, you know, their big season three blowout was at the kitchen island, but a similar sort of like sitting, two women sitting at the bar together, facing each other, positioning, we're flipping. The positions are flipped this season. But like it's a very similar sort of setup to that season three slap fest that happened. But when Yaz says and it's Marissa Abella's delivery, I kind of grew up at someone's mercy and I just felt so sick and so upset. And this is as much a confession as Yaz has ever given about what, you know, at the very end of season three, we get that the, you know, the woman who she has employed and then fires immediately after who is just basically like, something bad happened to you. And I understand and Yaz breaks down, but doesn't say, doesn't, you know, doesn't confirm it or say anything. But watching it, you could understand that she was abused by her father. We get, you know, the great Claire Forlani here for one episode to make our skin crawl about it once again. But this confession, as sort of mealy mouthed as the language is the emotion behind it, I kind of grew up at someone's mercy. And the way in which Harper receives it is just this incredible degree of intimacy which I and, and, and her insistence that she feel necessary versus her father screaming in her face right before he dies that she's spectacularly fucking useless. You know, just like this, this core wound for her, the way in which Harper is offering her a little bit of healing. But at the same time, my question to you, Jodi, is like, is this not almost exactly the move we saw Yaz make at the end of last season with Robb? This, like, bid for intimacy? This bid for, like, you and I understand each other better than anyone else. When she says she killed her father in bed, you know, this sort of, like, confessional, close intimacy, penultimate episode sort of maneuver from Yaz. So how. How sincere is she always in these moments? And then what's to prevent those moments from sticking? Do you know?

Jody Walker (44:51)

Oh, well, I think what could make them stick is a good deal of therapy, is what is making them not stick is sort of leaving these intimate, true, real, vulnerable feelings unexamined and running away from the scary and painful fact of them. At the beginning of that sort of conversation at the bar, Yaz says to Harper, kind of like laughing, how did we get here? Like, how did we get in this place? And Harper says, what drives anyone anywhere? Lack.

Joe (45:24)

Need.

Jody Walker (45:24)

And it's like, first of all, what a worldview. That's tough, but also true. Yeah. And, you know, Yasmin can say, I. I just want to be necessary. And Rob can make her feel necessary, and Harper can make her feel necessary, but those aren't the people she wants to feel necessary to. She's chasing the wound of her father telling her that she is unnecessary and seeking out people who make her feel a similar kind of unnecessary, that maybe she can win over. And that person isn't Rob, and she watched him scratch off that lotto ticket in that gas station, and that moment of vulnerability was never gonna stick, unfortunately.

Rob Mahoney (46:05)

I think in these relationships, you're absolutely right, Jodi. Like, the ones that she wants are not the ones that she can reasonably have given everyone's emotional bandwidth. And with the way Yaz operates, like, I think intimacy is bait. A lot of times, it is like, a way to get a certain level of closeness. And then once that line is crossed beyond the pale of what she is willing to actually entertain, she rejects, rejects, rejects, burns down everything, moves on to the next person or the next opportunity.

Joe (46:30)

I. Well, that's the. I think that's a bit more mercenary than how I view her. But, like, I think she really means it in the moment.

Rob Mahoney (46:36)

Yeah, I think so, too.

Joe (46:37)

And I don't think it's like. I think I mostly agree with what you're saying. I just would, like, turn down the sort of calculation on it slightly, and I think it's just sort of like when it gets uncomfortably close or when she feels out of control for sure. You know?

Jody Walker (46:49)

Well, and it's why. It's why people perceive. Perceive Yasmin like that as this, like, tease or man killer or whatever. It's accidental bait. She. She. She means it when she says it, and she needs the people that she's saying it to. But it's too. It's much scarier to live in something than to say something. And she cannot live in the reality of what she is sometimes able to confess.

Joe (47:13)

So that line, which I absolutely loved, of like, we're here forever, even if we can't be, is just, like, absolutely sliced. Sliced into me.

Jody Walker (47:21)

Like, girls, you can be. You can do it.

Joe (47:27)

Rob, on a scale to 1 to 10, how much were you thinking about the iconic Faith and Buffy bad girls dance or Buffy Vampire Slayer when we saw these two on the dance floor?

Rob Mahoney (47:38)

I mean, how could you not? And of course, because industry did what Buffy could not in 1999 or whatever year that was, which is put these two in bisexual lighting. You know, like, let's really make the subtext and then just have them make out, just in case you don't get it.

Joe (47:52)

But it was, like, so, like, tender.

Jody Walker (47:55)

Not.

Joe (47:55)

It was very tender pun unintended. But it was just sort of like. It wasn't like that kind of, like, hedonistic shit that Henry and Whitney were doing. And it wasn't. You know, it was just sort of like. And this idea of, like, I'll take care of you and you take care of me for this.

Rob Mahoney (48:12)

I love that bit.

Joe (48:12)

I just like my heart.

Jody Walker (48:15)

It's another exchange of intimacy that you don't have to stick to. It's a soft kiss on the dance floor.

Joe (48:22)

And tonight we'll take care of each other tonight. And then we get. So this brings me back to. Obviously, I want to talk about the music in this episode. We end this episode, the Daft Punk has come back in. And then the absolutely 80s banger, the promise by when in Rome, which gets cut off at the beginning of the episode. So the episode starts with the Daft Punk track. And then we get the absolutely iconic opener for When In Rome's I Promise. And I was, like, so ready to bop out to I Promise, because I love that song. Truly.

Jody Walker (48:59)

Your head is, like, already.

Joe (49:00)

Oh, yeah, here we go. And then it just cuts out because, like, that's not. Yeah, that's not what Henry and Yaz have. But in this moment, for at least, maybe not forever, but for right now, Yaz and Harper have that at the end of this episode and the positions are reversed where Yaz is sort of like, snuggled up and leaning on Harper the way that Henry was leaning on her. And then this absolute banger comes back in. So we want to talk about the music in this episode as a whole. But, like, who wants to take the floor on talking about Daft Punk or any of the other 80s tracks that are inside this episode?

Jody Walker (49:38)

I feel confident that it's right.

Joe (49:39)

Yeah, I think so.

Rob Mahoney (49:39)

Well, they're all over the place. Like, you know, not to get ahead of ourselves, Joe, but we were entertaining the idea of, like, how would we insert our own favorite 80s banger into the show and where. And I had to, like, triple, quadruple check that the 80s bangers I had intended are not just already in the show because it was like, complete same.

Jody Walker (49:57)

And, like, three of them were.

Rob Mahoney (49:58)

And I was like, oh, inescapable. It's like, don't you even think about trying to put Iran in the show, because Iran is already in this show,

Joe (50:05)

literally in this episode. Very on the nosily in this episode. Yeah, yeah.

Rob Mahoney (50:09)

And I find those to be, for me, like, some of the most successful deployments of the 80s tunes yet. Are not just like, oh, this is a great synth track where we're gonna pull the instrumental beginning to underscore a scene. But industry loves a little cheeky, slightly counterpoint, like, a little too happy for whatever is being shown on screen. Subtext inversion. And honestly, what better decade to turn to?

Joe (50:32)

Yeah. So in this episode, we get a cover of Heroes by Big Ben Tribe. We get Iran Flock of Seagulls, like, as Whitney, like, over Whitney. Incredible. We get the Enya. That Rob number one Enya lover mentioned earlier. Only time.

Rob Mahoney (50:48)

You know what? I will wear that cape.

Joe (50:50)

Anything about this specific Daft Punk track that you want to highlight? This is Veritas Quo, which is also very disco, I guess, is the play on words there, which is supposed to be a bit of like, Quo Vadis, but like anything have they used. I don't know if they've used Daft Punk before, but, like, I thought it was used really well in this episode.

Rob Mahoney (51:09)

Well, it's just, like, impossible to hear that track. And have either of you seen the Daft punk anime movie Interstella 5555?

Jody Walker (51:17)

Yes, I have.

Rob Mahoney (51:17)

Do you know what I'm.

Jody Walker (51:18)

I mean, I have not told me about it.

Rob Mahoney (51:20)

I wish I could tell you the plot of it. I'm not sure that anyone making the movie is familiar with the plot of it. It is like a mushroomy haze of a movie, understandably, under the circumstances, but like, this particular series of notes is just so transportive for time and place for me of like, oh, you are in a college Dorm room watching Interstella 5555. So I don't know if that's the appropriate place for more of a cocaine show than a hallucinogenic show. But I guess all of your drug use can overlap if you try hard enough.

Joe (51:49)

Yeah, if you really try. I think they can.

Jody Walker (51:52)

On this note, I just have to quickly say about this scene. Marissa Abella does something so specific with the character of Yaz. When you can tell she's thinking about cocaine, she literally, like, when she says, do you want to go out? Which female friendship she like, she has this way of like sniffing her nose to the side and it's like she's

Joe (52:14)

ready to like, I just twitching in anticipation.

Jody Walker (52:17)

She twitches her nose and sniffs. And it happened a lot in season two. And I just.

Rob Mahoney (52:23)

Well, also, if it weren't clear enough that Yaz and I are living in different worlds, when she says she wants to go do the stuff that Lorde sang about, here I was thinking about what Lorde sings about is the like navel gazing, about how all the people in your life think you're either too much or too little at all times. But like, I'm more of a melodrama guy myself, so I don't know like, which album she's tapped into.

Joe (52:42)

Well adjusted Romantic. Rob Mahoney.

Rob Mahoney (52:45)

I don't think that's what that album's about. I don't think that's a well adjusted one, but 80s. Thank you, Joe.

Joe (52:50)

80s. Needle drops. So we decided before pod that we would each pick an 80s banger that they have not used yet and either say where we would have put it in a scene we've already seen or how you imagine you could use it in a future scene or a scene that didn't make it, but maybe happen behind the scenes or something like that. The vibe this season, that Ultravox, when in Rome, Pet Shop boys, new wave European 80s energy is incredible. That was not the. And it could be anything from the 80s, but Jodie Walker, what did you pick?

Jody Walker (53:24)

I had so many thoughts going into this exercise and like Rob, many of them upon a quick Google were revealed to me to have already been in the show, which eats through music like it eats through plot, especially 80s songs. But my mind just kept circling around Fleetwood Mac and I finally got down and I, you know, I thought about some ironic choices and I don't know if sound wise this Works with what they've been doing. But I do feel like the Harper and Yaz relationship could really be coming down to a very unkind deployment of Silver Spoon.

Joe (54:04)

That's too powerful, Jodi. That's way too powerful. That is overwhelming. That's a great idea.

Jody Walker (54:09)

You will never get away from the sound of the woman that loves you.

Joe (54:14)

Wow.

Jody Walker (54:16)

I can feel it. I can feel it.

Joe (54:18)

It's coming. Yeah. Okay. Some Goldust woman sort of action here for yaz as well. R.A. mahoney, what'd you pick?

Rob Mahoney (54:26)

I did go a little ironic. I couldn't help myself. For me, it was. I would love to see the Bengals Manic Monday in this show somewhere. And for me, the deployment was in the slow zoom of Yaz's realization that she has been staying and banging in the Hitler room. That's when I want to hear either the plinking piano intro or we can just go straight to chorus on Manic Monday there.

Joe (54:46)

But yeah, when you see Hitler's name on a page, you're like, oh, it's just another Manic Monday. What?

Rob Mahoney (54:50)

Another day in the life.

Jody Walker (54:52)

I'm also just realizing that in Classic Jody fashion, I have let my passion and emotion get the best of me. And that Silver Springs came out in 1977.

Joe (55:01)

Yeah, but you know, the cocaine virus,

Jody Walker (55:03)

the radio planning apologies, and I don't take it back.

Joe (55:06)

Yeah, don't worry about it. I was gonna go inspired by the use of Iran Flock of Seagulls, which is just like so audaciously on the nose inside of this episode. I thought I would go with something incredibly on the nose, which is this is for Sweet Pea. And it's one of my all time favorite, like 80s karaoke songs, which is Erasure's A Little Respect, you know, and this is like. This is like, all Sweet Pea wants is like, respect her. And it's an absolute, absolute classic banger that if you've never sung a karaoke, you should try. Cause it's the best. So that was my pick. I love Erasure. I'm a huge unironic Erasure fan, so that's me.

Rob Mahoney (55:45)

Also is Sweet Pea and I guess Kwabina. Are they in this show anymore or was it just like you get your one showcase episode and then you're here to sit in the background and ask about Eric? Is that what we expect their deployment to be in the finale?

Joe (55:57)

Well, yeah, let's ask some finale questions. What do you think, Rob? Do you want a massive amount of Sweet Pea and Kwabina or what else we haven't seen Haley in this. What is Hailey ups do? Like, what do you want to see in the finale?

Rob Mahoney (56:08)

It's so true. I mean, the Yaz Hailey stuff in particular, I felt even going into the previous conversation on screen, which was Hailey, like laying out all the dirt for Yaz, it already felt like we had taken a big jump from their previous interaction being Hailey flashing Yaz on the way out of the elevator. So, like, I'm just missing some of the connected tissue there. If Hailey is a continued part of the show, but maybe she's not. Like, maybe she ultimately was just like a part of this larger machine and we're never gonna hear from her again. I think I'm just looking at this finale unsure of what is going to happen in any direction. I think Whitney will be back and will be facing some kind of music for the things he's done from whom I think is up for debate 80 break or otherwise.

Joe (56:48)

Yeah, yeah.

Rob Mahoney (56:49)

I mean, yeah, but like, where else does the plot trail go? Like, they've already run through so much story this season and we reached so many, like, natural sort of closing beats that now I think things can get, like, kind of explosive if they want to. Like, you can really wipe entire plot lines or characters or enterprises off the board if that's where industry wants to go.

Joe (57:08)

What do you think, Jody?

Jody Walker (57:10)

Well, I think Hailey certainly remains a tool in the belt. And she does get a mention this episode in the form of the. The guy in the Pierpoint meeting who kind of unexpectedly stands up for Whitney's right to speak. And Whitney says, you know, maybe he dated Haley.

Joe (57:26)

Gross.

Jody Walker (57:27)

Fuck off, Whitney. And Henry says dated. Cause Henry's an idiot. And that, that's, you know, she's got information. People have information about her. She has connected with Yaz. She wants what Yaz has. I think Yaz is going to want something from her. Those two are going to link up. You know, you mentioned Sweet Pea and it's like I, I do feel like Sweet Pea has been set up to be betrayed. And how much more time do we have to do that? And I doesn't happen. Is that just an unclosed loop? And actually Harper's grown and won't betray Sweet Peas.

Joe (57:59)

I mean, I will not claim to be able to speak financials legibly in any kind of way. But was.

Jody Walker (58:04)

Well, we are shorting the market next week, I believe, so we got to, we do need to get on top.

Joe (58:08)

Well, what's up? He not saying, okay, you know, we'll. We'll run our short or Whatever. But then we got to, like, get out before X, Y, Z, and Harper's like, this is. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Jody Walker (58:20)

Precisely. When I wrote down. When Harper says, we're speaking the same language, and I said, I literally have no idea what this. She says, no one wants to catch the knife. Tomorrow morning, we hit the tape small, don't show our hand, and exit as efficiently as we can. Show me dollars.

Joe (58:38)

So I think it just means we

Jody Walker (58:41)

hit the tape small.

Joe (58:42)

Yep.

Rob Mahoney (58:42)

Of course, like, you do as we do.

Jody Walker (58:45)

Keep the tape small.

Joe (58:46)

You see, you're seeing your numbers go up, and then you, like, cut bait before it happens to, like, crash again or something like that.

Jody Walker (58:53)

Right.

Joe (58:54)

Get out while. Don't get greedy.

Rob Mahoney (58:57)

We don't want to catch the knife or we don't want to try to catch the knife. Sorry, that's the fallacy. Don't even try.

Joe (59:02)

Yeah, don't even try. You're never going to get the handle. Only a blade.

Jody Walker (59:05)

And ultimately, show me dollars.

Rob Mahoney (59:07)

Yes.

Joe (59:07)

Will Henry suffer any real consequences?

Jody Walker (59:09)

I mean, there was a moment in this episode, like, when you said, we don't start the episode with Whitney saying, like, if you see me without this phone, I'm dead, and then have him die. There was a moment when Uncle Alexander and Yaz were talking back and forth about, like. Like, is this love? Or, like, this is going to destroy Henry? And I was like, oh, he's gonna die at the end of the episode. Like, we. Like, the last scene of this will be him overdosing. And then I was like, no, no, they're not gonna do that. But, I mean, I think there's a 50. 50 chance he makes it out of this season alive.

Joe (59:45)

I think the thing that I'm really interested in seeing, like, in terms of, like, where we're going politically is very interesting to me how the media can be involved. How much are those wacky Russians gonna be like, you know, how. How far does the compromise go? How far do the roots, the, you know, spindly little roots go inside of all of these plot lines from. From the Russian contingency, You know what I mean?

Jody Walker (60:11)

Okay, maybe also. Maybe I'm a little baby little idiot. But, like, at the beginning of the episode when everyone keeps being like, like, you can't claim ignorance. Henry, you're implicated. I was kind of like, okay, but he actually is ignorant. Like, is there not a way to prove that he literally did not know about any of. Like, they're legitim. They are dumb, but they legitimately didn't know.

Joe (60:35)

I do think there's A potential version of this where Henry actually gets no consequences just because, like, he's so, you know, insulated from consequences in general in his life. The con. The only consequence being, like, his marriage falls apart or something like that. And, you know, he's like, okay.

Rob Mahoney (60:52)

He doesn't seem to care about that too much.

Jody Walker (60:54)

At which time he went into the office that shortly, he understands, is bugged to the gills and. And said. And. And had Whitney say, like, you didn't know about any of this, but you're implicated. And then he's like, you're right. I guess I'll do crime now.

Joe (61:10)

Right? He's got this letter. Like, could that letter not be evidence? But Henry is so stupid. And Yaz. And Yaz is so disinclined to help him at this point that I do think there was a clear way out of that. But, like, that's the thing is, like, Whitney will just sort of, like, flim flam whatever he needs to flim flam. He'll say, like, I have a bunch of shares in Pierpoint or whatever it is, you know, if it gets him ahead. And Henry's just dumb enough to be like, okay.

Jody Walker (61:33)

Henry's like, oh, this notorious liar must be telling me.

Rob Mahoney (61:36)

He must. The fact that it takes him until the plane right at the end for the scales to fall from his eyes and see what Whitney is and, like, slam the. You know, when the glory finally leaves the hole. I guess, if you prefer it.

Joe (61:47)

Tough.

Jody Walker (61:48)

Thank you.

Rob Mahoney (61:49)

It's just embarrassing for Henry, and I think, look, it is hard to prove I am dumb as a substantial legal defense, but if anyone could do it, I think Henry Muck could try or.

Jody Walker (61:58)

It's incredibly. Yeah, it's incredibly humbling or upsetting to be called a child in the middle of a hissy fit, which is what is happening on that plane.

Joe (62:09)

Well, that is our. Our episode about the penultimate episode of Industry this season. I'm, like, very sad that we're almost done with this season, but we will be back next week for the finale. Thank you to Jody Walker. Thank you to Rob Mahoney. Thank you to. To Deb, who. Who works on this show. Thank you to Justin Sales. Thank you. You know, to everyone, to all of you for listening, for sending your. Well, actually, for sending your thoughts, for helping us understand finance. Y' all are the best. We'll see you soon. Bye.

Jody Walker (62:51)

There's a world where legends race across city skylines Romance.

Rob Mahoney (62:58)

Blood blossoms in glittering ballrooms and there's

Jody Walker (63:01)

magic around every corner.

Rob Mahoney (63:04)

It's a world known to many as Great Britain. You've seen the action on screen.

Jody Walker (63:11)

Now visit the real star of the show. Visit Great Britain. To discover more, go to tripadvisor.com Great Britain.