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- [00:00]
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- [00:30]
Rob Mahoney
So good, so good, so good.
- [00:32]
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- [00:42]
Joanna Robinson
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- [00:50]
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- [01:16]
Joanna Robinson
Hello. Welcome back to the Prestige TV podcast feed. I'm Joanna Robinson.
- [01:20]
Rob Mahoney
I'm Rob Mahoney.
- [01:21]
Joanna Robinson
Previously on the Prestige TV podcast, we covered the West Wing 2 cathedrals, which was number 16 on the Ringer.com's the Hundred Best episodes of the century list that they put up on the website. It's a great, great, great article list. You should read it. Today. We're going right to the top. Number one with the Bullet. You already clicked on this episode, so you probably know what it's about. We're here to talk about an episode of Lost called the Constant.
- [01:53]
Rob Mahoney
I would say this is a one for us, one for them situation, but they're all for us somehow. So you know what? The Constant, yet again in the Ringers episode rankings is number one. I would like to thank whoever put their foot on the scale. Cough, cough. Mallory Rubin to make such a thing happen. But I'm thrilled about it.
- [02:10]
Joanna Robinson
I know that Mallory like launched a full scale attack the first time they did this list in 2018 to make sure the constant was the top. But it didn't budge. And I should say at the top, I think it's like the top four episodes are the same as the last time they made the list. So I think that sounds right that like these are some unimpeachable four, that there's some recency bias elsewhere in the list. There's some succession that Rob objects to, there's some severance which I have some questions about, et cetera, et cetera. But for the most part there, there are episodes on there that it's like we've, we've known that these are classics.
- [02:46]
Rob Mahoney
For a while, so the haymakers have already been thrown and we have felt their impact for quite some time. So yeah, like no one is disputing. I think even really the top 10 feel pretty unimpeachable in their respective ways. The order may vary depending on what show you prefer, but I think this one. Joe well, here's the thing. I say that, and yet I know this is not your favorite episode of Lost, so maybe this would not be your inclusion.
- [03:07]
Joanna Robinson
It wouldn't be my favorite episode of Lost, but if I were to try to argue something to the top of a list to get consensus, I would pick the Constant this came out February 2008 this is the fifth episode of the fourth season. To give you a little context about Lost. If you've never seen it.
- [03:28]
Don'T laugh.
- [03:29]
Rob Mahoney
I hadn't. And now you have. You know, I've come to your side of the aisle.
- [03:33]
Joanna Robinson
Welcome. A bunch of people crash land on an island. That happens right at the beginning, so don't worry about it. A lot of mysteries ensue. The season four is the freighter season. Something that I think is maybe even more interesting than the plot, which I will get to in a second, is what this season meant in terms of changing up the end game of Loss. Because the first three seasons were typical seasons of television at the time, meaning they launched in the fall and they concluded in the spring. There were hiatuses and stuff like that were running about 22 episodes per season thereabouts. Season four is a shorter season. It starts midway through the year, January, and so we are like high octane Lost for the fourth, fifth and sixth seasons of the show. A lot of people really love the fourth season. The third season has some wobbles to it that a lot of like especially the beginning of the third season. But oh yeah, fourth season is very popular one and a lot of the reason for that is season four, episode five, the Constant, in which.
- [04:35]
Two characters that we know and love, Said and Desmond, take a chopper to the mysterious freighter that is parked in a very specific direction offshore of the island. The freighter has been responsible for bringing new people to the island. New characters are here on the island. We don't know who sent the freighter. We don't know what the intention of these freighter people is. And so Said and Desmond are going to the freighter to get answers. But that's what Desmond says, right? Answers is this does this boat belong to his girlfriend Penny? Charlie says no. So whose boat is this? Why Are we here? Instead of getting a lot of those answers, we quickly enter into an unstuck in time, timey wimey premise of an episode where Desmond Hume, who has always had weird time stuff surrounding him, premonitions, all this sort of stuff on the show, his consciousness from eight years in the past gets sort of unstuck in time and inside of his present body. So we're flashing back and forth. Wow. Explaining the premise of the Constant is difficult. Between 1996 and 2004, I think Damon.
- [05:47]
Rob Mahoney
Lindolf would agree with you. Like, I think many people have struggled to explain the premise of this episode.
- [05:52]
Joanna Robinson
But the point is there's a ticking clock. His consciousness has come unstuck, and if we don't figure out why or how or how to fix it, Desmond Hume, cherished Lost character, is not going to survive the hour. So how do we solve it? Spoiler alert. We do solve it. And it culminates in, as Lindelof Properties often do, a very emotional and romantic conversation between Penelope Widmore, the long awaited Penelope Widmore, and Desmond Hume. Penny, you answered. You answered Pen. And this very high concept.
- [06:30]
Yet emotionally resonant episode television has become what many consider one of the best episodes of sci fi or otherwise episodes of television ever, and certainly the best episode of Lost ever. Rob, having recently watched through all of Lost, how did you feel when you hit the Constant and did it live up to his reputation?
- [06:55]
Rob Mahoney
It somehow lived up to and exceeded all of the hype. And I say that again, knowing that it was the number one episode on our list at the website for quite some time, even before this recent update. And so getting to experience it and live with it and I think most crucially get kind of pulled into its gravity is just a really singular experience. I think you laid it out really well, Joe, that the whole season is built up to like, freighter, freighter, freighter, freighter. How do we get there? Who's coming off of it? What can it do for us? Who owns it? And then you do have some bits of information doled out within the constant as far as, like, who is on the freighter and what its purpose kind of might be like. We are learning things, but those things are strapped to an emotional rocket ship that is just taking us so far in the opposite direction that you almost don't care anymore. And so like, that kind of sleight of hand I'm always fascinated by. And to do it with emotions leading first, I think is really what makes the best version of Lost the best version of Lost.
- [07:50]
Joanna Robinson
Something that.
- [07:52]
As I'M fond of doing. I will quote Dana Lindelof a couple times here, and I will say that.
- [07:58]
One thing he said about the introduction of Desmond, which happens at the beginning of season two after a season of hatch. Hatch. What's in the hatch? What's in the hatch? It's Desmond Hume. It's a guy. Something that Damon Lindelof said then and I've repeated a million times in various podcasts, is the greatest answer to a mystery is a person. Right. So the greatest answer to what's in the hatch is it's a guy, Desmond Hume. He's just having smoothies and getting on the exercise bike and injecting himself with stuff. So, like, the greatest answer to the mystery inside this episode is like the constant is the title of the episode. This episode coins a concept. What is my constant? That becomes a cultural touch point going forward. The fact that what is Desmond constant? And it's a person. It's Penny, it's the love of his life. It's love, it's faith. It's a woman probably ill advisedly saying she'll wait eight years for a guy to call her.
- [08:52]
Rob Mahoney
Look, when your psycho ex boyfriend shows up and is like, I need you to give me my phone number to not talk to you for eight years, you just have to listen to what he says.
- [08:59]
Joanna Robinson
Yeah, you just gotta have some faith. So, and faith, like, faith is very important here. Like, Desmond had to believe that Penny would not change her number for eight years. And which is not something that happened that often in that era of telephone numbers, landlines would be home when he called her, would answer, and she had to have faith that he would call her in eight years like he said he would. So there's all of that in play. Also, something that Lindelof has said about the specific episode is that this is similar to what we discussed with West Wing, where that West Wing episode that we talked about in the previous installment of this top 100 episodes of the century exploration was Aaron Sorkin solving for a cast member potentially departing the show.
- [09:43]
Rob Mahoney
Right.
- [09:44]
Joanna Robinson
This is Damon Lindelof saying that he's solving for. How boring will it be if we just take characters of the freighter and they just ask, what's that? What does that do? Why are you here? Who are you? He's like, he called it, quote, mindless exposition. You would just have mindless exposition if you didn't have this constant state of constant, no pun intended, state of crisis. A ticking clock on our character. And again, like the West Wing episode which starts with, there's going to be a press conference. You should watch it. We get the ticking clock of Oscar winner Fisher Stevens. He won for a documentary, but I counted anyway. Fisher Stevens. Oscar winner Fisher Stevens as Minkowski. Who is the ticking clock? What is happening to him? He's jumping through time. His nose is bleeding like he's on Stranger Things, and he dies. And if we don't figure out what's going on with Desmond, that's gonna happen. Desmond literally says that, like, what's gonna happen? What's gonna happen to him? You know, it's gonna happen to me. So, like, all of that, like, tension.
- [10:49]
Just propels you through this episode every time you're watching it.
- [10:53]
Rob Mahoney
I mean, the flow of it is incredible. Joe. And this is as we're jumping back and forth through time, which usually brings a lot of shows and movies, like, to a halt. Right. As you're trying to balance these various timelines, this feels downhill pretty much the whole way. You know, you're on the chopper. Desmond is starting to slip out of his reality into this other one, temporally speaking. And I think all this is a credit to the way that the episode is written, for sure. Like, structurally speaking, a very impressive episode. Also, the way it's edited, like, just all of those jumps are super smooth and super seamless, and you never feel like you're being pulled out of the story. You feel like you're being yanked forward into the next stage of it, which I think is so important for something like this. And the pace feels like it's just accelerating, like the flashes are getting faster. We feel that ticking clock. I mean, the stakes could not be laid out more simply. And in doing so, you have all this emotional heft. You have the natural kind of mechanism of the structure of the episode that we're talking about. And then you have the fact that Desmond is getting pulled between timelines, like, mid sentence, makes the whole thing feel like there's this tension, there's this edge. Like you could get pulled back or forward at any point in time. Like, you're just kind of suspended in that state for the entirety of the episode. And it's an exhilarating experience.
- [12:07]
Joanna Robinson
I think you're so right to call out the editing initially. I know when they were going to make this episode, they were going to do sort of, like, fancier tricks to delineate between time periods. They were going to do a sound effect or a wipe or something like that.
- [12:21]
Rob Mahoney
All you need is a beard. It's okay.
- [12:23]
Joanna Robinson
Well, they have a couple things going for them, which we'll talk about in a second. But they decided to go with this. Yeah, this mid sentence, Desmond is often falling over when he lands in a given time period or something like that. And so I love that. And I. And I love that. Like down to the wire. This was an argument they were having in the editing room. This is the right answer. Jack Bender directed this episode. Jack Bender is, like, an absolute iconic Lost director, and he also directed the Door episode of Game of Thrones. They're like, get me the constant guy to do the door for Game of Thrones.
- [12:57]
Rob Mahoney
You know, you could do a lot worse.
- [12:58]
Joanna Robinson
No shit, right? So.
- [13:02]
So the concept has been sort of imitated but never quite recreated in a lot of other shows. But I just think that the emotionality of the show, the stakes on Desmond. Where did you come out of the end of the series? Where does Desmond rank among your favorite characters?
- [13:22]
Rob Mahoney
I love Desmond in the bulk of the middle of the show, you know, from his arrival. And then once they kind of figure out what they want to do with him in this, like, larger, cosmic, romantic sense, like, that's extremely my stuff. The Desmond Penny stuff always worked for me.
- [13:35]
Joanna Robinson
Yeah, you love a urine.
- [13:37]
Rob Mahoney
I love a urine. By the end, I mean, Penny is barely part of the show at all. And Desmond, by extension, is kind of a shadow of his former self. So I think in the later seasons, he just doesn't have a lot to do. But in this kind of crux of it, I mean, he's the beating heart of the show in a lot of ways. Like, he is kind of the emotional center of so much of what Lost is striving for.
- [13:57]
Joanna Robinson
We were talking.
- [14:00]
When Chris Ryan joined us on House of R for our Dunkirk episode. He was talking about how the Nolan body of work at large is, like, this idea of trying to get home and how that echoes across so many different stories that Nolan has told and how the Odyssey is just sort of like the classic version of that. And, of course, Penelope Whitmore is named for Penelope, Odysseus's wife in the Odyssey. But that idea of, like, everyone wants to get home, but, like, Desmond really wants to get home sort of like, has a has because, like, everyone wants to get home. Well, that's not true. There's, like, John Locke definitely wants to stay. There are people who want to get home.
- [14:39]
Rob Mahoney
Your Kates and whatnot. It's complicated.
- [14:41]
Joanna Robinson
You know, plenty of people are running from things, and a lot of those flashbacks have been like, this is the reason why I didn't want to be home. Yes. And A lot of Desmond's storyline is like, this is what I fumbled and have another. Maybe another chance at.
- [14:57]
The idea of, like, I love Saeed being sort of his guardian on this journey.
- [15:03]
Rob Mahoney
We also have to say, just like a wingman for all times, Saeed in this episode. You know, I don't even need. I don't need to answer any questions. I'll fix the radio. Sure, man. Like, whatever you say. I'm just here.
- [15:13]
Joanna Robinson
Well, this is the thing is, like, say it's a physical threat. So, like, if it physically comes down to something, like, say it will snap your neck with his thighs if he has to or whatever, he's a tech whiz. So when you need to fix the radio, it's good that Saeed is here. And then he's also a compassionate yearner. Like, talk about people carrying around photos of people like Nadia, you know, but, like, the idea that, like, Saeed has a photo of Nadia and Desmond has a photo of himself and Penelope Penny is like, there's something else. There was just like, I just missed my chance for no reason, and maybe I can make that happen again. And so many of these people miss their chance, and there's no way they can go back and fix and right that wrong. But, like, Desmond could maybe if he can figure out how to get home.
- [16:00]
Rob Mahoney
I mean, that distinction is so important, right? It's not like the life you could have had. It's the life you had and fumbled. And I think that's where the whole crux of this episode is. And Desmond's fate ultimately is, can this guy get Penny's phone number again? Like, that's really the whole thing. Like, can he get. Can he ask her for her phone number again and would she give it to him? And loss turns that into a matter of life and death, basically through ultimately, like, the magic of the show. And that works because it is tugging at exactly what you're isolating, Joe, which is like, this very single question that all of us deal with in our own way. Is it too late to undo the damage I've done? Like, is it too late to walk back? The thing I always wished I could walk back? And maybe it's not. Like, maybe all you have to do is call her. Maybe all you have to do is wait. And, like, putting the show in that place and hanging this much on it. I just. I have so much admiration for the gall of that and ultimately how just wildly successful it is, I think, too.
- [16:58]
Joanna Robinson
I really agree, and I was beautifully put. And I think to go back to like, your. The question of, like, where does Desmond rank in your character rankings ultimately? If you ask a lot of people, Desmond's like, right at the top of the list for a lot of people. And I think it's off the back of something like the Constant, because his story fizzles so hard in season five and six, and.
- [17:22]
He just absolutely careens into one of the most ineffective endings for a character ever, which happens to a lot of great characters on Lost, unfortunately. I will defend the finale, but I won't defend everything that happens in the final season of Lost.
- [17:34]
Rob Mahoney
The road to the finale is a little murky.
- [17:37]
Joanna Robinson
Desmond has like, two seasons of, like, arced out, you know what I mean? But he remains a lot of people's favorites. And that's just off the strength of these middle seasons here.
- [17:48]
Rob Mahoney
It really is like a handle of like a handful of episodes. I think the very Desmond episodes. And we should also talk about, I think the way that the Constant sort of weaponizes the idea of what a Desmond episode is. It's like, oh, you want a flashback backstory for this episode? Like, make his entire existence depend on his ability to navigate. It is such, like, a smart idea to kind of twist the concept. But I love Flashes before your eyes too, which is the other, like, heavy Desmond Penny backstory episode. And it's all very mechanic, it's all very timey wimey. And I don't think. I think the show does a really nice job in all of these Desmond instances, especially of, like, not shying away from what it is. Like, we are not apologizing for being a time travel premonition, like sci fi show. We're going to use those genre elements to supercharge the most human qualities of the stories we're trying to tell. And that's when you get ultimately, like in the constant, what is just like a great romance period point blank and just a masterwork of sci fi storytelling at the same time.
- [18:50]
Joanna Robinson
And how. I mean, I think about this all the time.
- [18:56]
When I think about Daemon's work and the way he uses time and distance to tell these love stories and how the waiting.
- [19:07]
Gives weight to something that yearn sort of factor. We talk about it a lot when we talk about the leftovers.
- [19:16]
And it echoes across other people's storylines inside of Lost. But Desmond and Penny is just sort of the apex mountain of this. But I think that.
- [19:28]
To go back to our Nolan rewatches, I don't know why this is on my mind so much. But when we covered Inception on House of R We were talking about the way in which the various levels of the dreamscape in Inception, how the weather changes, or so you can orient yourself. You always know where you are. It's snowing, it's raining, it's this, that there's no gravity here, et cetera. So thinking about the way they use rain in the flashbacks of, you know, the beard is doing a lot of work, I gotta say. There's some bad flashbacks, wigs. Unless. Not this one. Dozens. Great. Is very good. Faraday's we can talk about, but Desmond's is top tier work. Really good. So the haircut's doing a lot of work. The lack of beard is doing a lot of work. But the fact that, like, yeah, we're flashing into rain. Or in the case of that absolute psychopath, Charles Widmore, who walks out of a room leaving the sink running, I guess it's just like a fuck you power move. I don't know, turn off my sink, boy. But, like, we still get water running in that. In that flashback. So the way in which they use these various visual cues to orient us in time is really helpful.
- [20:34]
Rob Mahoney
So, see, I was going to zero in on that for my under recognized detail because ultimately, like, look, this is, I would. I would argue, one of the most scrutinized episodes of television that's ever been created. Right. It's so beloved. People have looked it up and down, like, yeah, we can go on and on about, like, Tavar Hanso or whatever, but, like, there's nothing that I could tell you that, like, a Lostopedia entry could not. I think, ultimately, like, the Charles Widmore thing, though, like, that kind of storytelling really speaks to me because you're right, it is like a power move from a guy who's, like, intentionally trying to be a dick and treating Desmond like he's an attendant. It's also the time marker because then you see the water filling the sink. It's also the transition point because you have Desmond reaching for the handle for the sink. So it's like the fact that you're getting all of that out of this one tiny little turn.
- [21:22]
Incredible economy within this episode. How much ground you cover within 40 odd minutes is, I think, really remarkable.
- [21:29]
Joanna Robinson
That's what's astounding about watching both this and the West Wing episode that we talked about before, where it's just like, they had so little time. And this is in contrast, I would say, to the West Wing episode that we talked about. I think you could show the constant to someone in isolation.
- [21:44]
Rob Mahoney
I think so.
- [21:46]
Joanna Robinson
Because Desmond is so disoriented, then we, the audience, know as much as he does about what's going on. And so that puts us on the same foot as he is. And I think also to your point, because we're making the flashback premise, the text, everyone knows he's flashing back in time, then you don't need to have watched. It helps certainly to know who Penny is. But like, we get it. He's got, he's got her photo with him, like all this sort of stuff like that. Like, I think you can watch the constant in isolation and understand like how why it's so special.
- [22:21]
And I think works out of. And it is a very much an anomaly episode. This is one that really stands out as like a big swing that they took and they will take bigger, bigger swings when it comes to time travel, when it comes to stret. Understanding of what a flashback is, et cetera, et cetera going forward. But this is a, this is a real moment in an absolutely incredible television show that captivated millions upon millions of people.
- [22:52]
Rob Mahoney
So very much so. Joe, I have one very important question I would like to ask, please, before we move on.
- [22:57]
Joanna Robinson
Please, Rob.
- [22:59]
Rob Mahoney
Is the constant a Christmas episode? Yes. Okay. I just want to get. Look, I just want to clear it up. I want to make it very simple for all of us.
- [23:05]
Joanna Robinson
You mentioned that.
- [23:10]
You had. You were like, you contemplated listening to the episode of the Lost Rewatch podcast that I did, the storm, and then you saw it was three hours and you're like, maybe not. Maybe I don't have three hours to listen to.
- [23:21]
Rob Mahoney
I would love to. Maybe in the, in the future I will.
- [23:23]
Joanna Robinson
Most of those episodes are not three hours, I should say. It's just, it was the constant. So we went very, very house of our length long. But in that episode, we definitely talked about how Christmasy Penny's house is. And then we just started calling her Christmas Penny. And I don't think we stopped calling her Christmas Penny until she's very Christmas.
- [23:45]
Rob Mahoney
Coded, I'm gonna be honest. And also, like, Desmond showing up at her place is not. Not Andrew Lincoln and Love actually, like, there's. There's a lot of overlap happening.
- [23:55]
Joanna Robinson
We're doing Love, actually, but we're also doing A Christmas Carol and we're also doing.
- [24:01]
An episode of Star Trek. Like, there are things that this feels like a very innovative, fresh. This is a template so many people tried to copy ever after, but it is standing on the shoulders of.
- [24:13]
Dickens and Picard, two of the all time greats. So what do you got to say.
- [24:18]
Rob Mahoney
I'm more of a Picard guy personally, but what can you do?
- [24:20]
Joanna Robinson
By the way, I was informed on social media that you said you have read a number of Charles Dickens novels and they're not for you.
- [24:29]
Rob Mahoney
Joanna. I was in a quality public school system. Like, I have read some Charles Dickens books, Rob.
- [24:34]
Joanna Robinson
I don't know if you saw my response, but I said I absolutely believe he read it in school. So, like, that's what I said.
- [24:38]
Rob Mahoney
It's accurate.
- [24:40]
Joanna Robinson
So which Charles Dickens books? Not a fan of fiction yourself, but which Charles Dickens books were you forced to read in school?
- [24:48]
Rob Mahoney
Christmas Carol, Tale of Two Cities, Great Expectations. The last two.
- [24:53]
Joanna Robinson
Not for me.
- [24:53]
Rob Mahoney
Not for me. No, absolutely not.
- [24:55]
Joanna Robinson
Great Expectations. One of the all time great pieces of fiction.
- [24:58]
Rob Mahoney
You're like, it's whatever.
- [24:59]
Joanna Robinson
Yeah, got you. Okay. How do you feel about the use of Jack inside of this episode?
- [25:06]
Rob Mahoney
Fine. I feel good about the use of Jack in this episode.
- [25:08]
Joanna Robinson
Reduced to what's going on guy.
- [25:13]
Rob Mahoney
He often needs to be the what's going on guy. I mean, somebody's gotta do it. I thought relaying that quote from Lindelof was great about kind of how you fix the exposition problem that you need. Like, you need to get through a lot in an episode like this and making it so candy coated in this, like, time travel way. And really orienting a lot of that stuff through Daniel Faraday really, really clicks. I am glad, though, personally speaking, that we do get a little Juliet moment of the, like, if you talk really, really slowly, you know, maybe we'll be able to understand what you're talking about. So we salute our queen.
- [25:45]
Joanna Robinson
One of my most, like, confident opinions was that you were gonna love Juliet when you watched this.
- [25:51]
Rob Mahoney
Do people not. Is she not a.
- [25:53]
Joanna Robinson
No, people like her, but I don't think. But some people, like, love Juliet. And I was like, Rob's gonna be a Juliet gag.
- [25:59]
Rob Mahoney
The character power rankings are so tough in part because of the Desmond problem we talked about before, where there's just like, certain parts of the story where I love. I love said here, but by the end to see if said. Spoiler alert. He's not. But Juliet is one of the. I think uniformly for the time that she is on the show, pretty consistently amazing.
- [26:18]
Joanna Robinson
Do you have, like, who's your number one character coming out of Lost?
- [26:23]
Rob Mahoney
I think I'm a Sawyer guy.
- [26:27]
I don't know what that says about me.
- [26:28]
Joanna Robinson
Shockingly basic opinion for you, Rob. Honestly.
- [26:31]
Rob Mahoney
Look, I'm sorry. Like, like, what would the controversial opinion be?
- [26:35]
Joanna Robinson
Well, there's plenty of bad Controversial opinions, I don't know. That's fine. But Sawyer is a great. Is a great answer. He's a great guy.
- [26:39]
Rob Mahoney
I would say my. My big three, yes. Juliet Sawyer, Ben Linus. Those. Those are the three for me. Iconic, hard to go wrong with any of them. And Frank Lapidus.
- [26:49]
Joanna Robinson
Daniel Faraday is really high up. My character rank.
- [26:51]
Rob Mahoney
He's really great.
- [26:52]
Joanna Robinson
I love Jeremy Davies. Whether he's on Justified or Lost, I think he's wonderful as. As Daniel Faraday. His vagueness, his mumbling, his stammering, his every. His tie that he wears all across his treks on the island. Flashback big notwithstanding, the very, like, Marty McFly coming to tell Doc Brown that he invented time travel like, aspect of their interactions works really well. And then, of course, the end of the episode, the like, if anything happens, Desmond Hume will be my constant. I do have some. I've always had some questions about this, because what Daniel Faraday says to Desmond Hume is like, you gotta pick something that matters so much to you more than anything. It's just like, really emotionally impactful to you and exists in both timelines. And I'm like, oh, is that how you feel about Desmond Hume? I mean, no, no, no judgment. Daniel Faraday, you met the guy once. Are you like, wow, who among us is my Penny? This is my Penny is Desmond Hume. So.
- [27:53]
Rob Mahoney
Well, here's the thing, Jo. If someone showed up and said, I am a time traveler from the future and I am here to relay to you specific information about yourself, would that not be basically one of the most important days of your entire life?
- [28:05]
Joanna Robinson
It's true. It's true. Also, Eloise died, so there's a lot to think about here.
- [28:08]
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- [28:09]
Rob Mahoney
I also think, as far as the Faraday part of this, like, he represents one of my favorite things about loss, which is the overall whatever happened, happened explanation of time travel within this show. So, like, very simple, very elegant. It, like, answers a lot without actually answering anything, which is very Daniel Faraday thing to do. I also think his presence within the show, especially at this point, is so welcome, because you're right, he is a little ambiguous and, like, clearly hiding some things, but he wants to tell people so bad what's going on. Like, there's finally a character on the show who's like, I. I really would love to tell you about this time vortex that exists around this island. And there's reasons why I'm not being 100% forthcoming, but I appreciate the eagerness.
- [28:51]
Joanna Robinson
And that's why Daniel Faraday doesn't work as well as he does without Charlotte. Charlotte, not one of my favorite characters. But you need Charlotte there to be like, dan, shut up. So he can like not tell them all the information at once.
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- [30:40]
Joanna Robinson
Best performance of the episode.
- [30:41]
Rob Mahoney
I mean, it's. It's Henry and Cusick as Desmond.
- [30:44]
Joanna Robinson
That being said, yes. Sonia Waller only has like a few minutes.
- [30:50]
Rob Mahoney
Yep.
- [30:51]
Joanna Robinson
To get us to feel the same amount that he has.
- [30:56]
Rob Mahoney
It's a great point. This is a great point. And a compelling take. And she, I mean, she's batting a thousand in this episode.
- [31:02]
Joanna Robinson
She's very good. But I mean, I'm not going to take it away from Henry. This is his episode. Best line of the episode.
- [31:09]
Rob Mahoney
For me, it's a little more elaborate than one line. And it's the sort of like interlocking promises that Desmond and Penny are trying to eke out to each other before the phone cuts off.
- [31:19]
Joanna Robinson
How much of a crier are you when you watch television?
- [31:24]
Rob Mahoney
I'm more of a Weller. You know, like, if it Gets me. I start to feel it. You know, I'm not. I'm not full on waterworks, but, you know, I am but a human being. And this is an episode that absolutely gets me. I think that. I mean, the call at the end, for sure, but also when he shows up at her house to ask for the phone number. Like, both of those sequences just really needle something for me.
- [31:49]
Joanna Robinson
I have watched this episode so, so many times, and yet it still makes me cry when I watch it. And I.
- [31:56]
Rob Mahoney
It's very powerful.
- [31:58]
Joanna Robinson
I was watching it, you know, My housemate walks in, and she's like. She's like, is this the fucking constant? I was like, yeah. She, like, left the room, but she walked in right towards the end of the episode, and she started to hear the beginning of it. She's like, wait, is happening. She, like, came running back in so that she can, like, be there for the phone call.
- [32:15]
Rob Mahoney
She is living in a time loop where the constant just keeps coming on over and over.
- [32:19]
Joanna Robinson
And she's like, oh, it's happening right now. Yeah, I would say Penny, you answered. You answered. Penny is like, I think about that all the time. But what I like of that is like a book. And like we talked about with the West Wing episode, when Leo's like, there's a press conference tonight. You're gonna want to watch it. And then watch this, the beginning of the episode, Saeed says, what are you hoping to get? And Desmond says, answers. And then it ends with, penny, you answered. You answered Penny. Which is not the answer she's talking about, but it's like an important answer from the universe.
- [32:54]
When we think about the deities that exist in the world of Lost, they are very unkind. And then sometimes they're kind. And this is a moment when, you know, whatever hand of God you want to call fate, faith, et cetera. Like, Penny, you answered. You answered Penny.
- [33:15]
Rob Mahoney
You need the unkind for this episode to work. A part of the reason, I think the overall engine of, like, oh, this is happening to. And we're seeing Desmond have to wrangle with the nosebleed and kind of how fast this is all accelerating. The reason you buy it is because of what happens to Charlie and what happens to Shannon and what happens to Libby and Echo and Lucia. Like, you can go on down the line. Like, we've seen Boone. The costs of these things. Boone, your favorite, your guy, Boone. No comment on Boone. Some losses are more acceptable than others, but you buy it because of all of that backgrounding. And so then when you do get the Sweet, sweet satisfaction of the one day where things work. It's an incredibly powerful and moving thing. And that's why, in addition to the lines that we're talking about, I think that it was enough after he does kind of stabilize is really, really great.
- [34:06]
Joanna Robinson
Yeah.
- [34:08]
There isn't really a needle drop in this episode.
- [34:10]
Rob Mahoney
No, I mean, the whole score is really great. And the score for the phone call in particular is just slow build. Absolute kingshit in terms of orchestrating that moment.
- [34:22]
Joanna Robinson
Chino. Who knew we knew. Iconic image, slash shot composition.
- [34:26]
Rob Mahoney
If you'll forgive me for being basic again, Joe. It's just the red phone.
- [34:29]
Joanna Robinson
It's how red the phone is. Honestly, I was gonna say the same thing. It's like that image, it's similar to like thinking about Bartlett alone in the cathedral.
- [34:38]
Rob Mahoney
Yeah.
- [34:38]
Joanna Robinson
Like, you see Henry, Ian Cusick with a red phone plastered to the side of his face. And that means something to you. So. Yeah, it is.
- [34:48]
Rob Mahoney
And also like the way that scene is shot and how. How tight it's framed. Right. This is like very extreme close up for him. There is. There is nowhere to go. That moment either works or it doesn't. Based on what he is selling and how he's welling up. And like, I think Henry and Cusa comes through just like some of the best phone acting you're going to see just about anywhere.
- [35:08]
Joanna Robinson
His desperation, you know, and he is. He has been playing desperation for sure. For sure. Seasons now. Favorite. Under recognized detail. You said that this is the sink for you.
- [35:19]
Rob Mahoney
I mean, if that counts. But again, what even is an under recognized detail on this show of constant.
- [35:23]
Joanna Robinson
I will just say, I just don't think we talk about it enough. The fact that Daniel Faraday named his lab rat after his mom. His lab rat. That he is like ready to kill after his mom. Eloise is pretty great stuff.
- [35:38]
Rob Mahoney
Daddy issues, last pod. Mommy issues. This pod. What's new under the sun.
- [35:42]
Joanna Robinson
Exactly. All right. You're right. I mean, this is the thing. Okay. What is two cathedrals without the scene where Jed Bartlett is in the church cursing out God? And what is this episode without the phone call? Because best moment scene also has to be the phone call. It's just the phone call, you know, and it's just like a minute. I don't know how much I. I'm sure I've done the count before, but I didn't do it for this podcast. But like, it's a minute, two minutes maybe, max. And it's just some of the most important television you've ever seen. It's just astonishing stuff.
- [36:13]
Rob Mahoney
So it's completely crucial. And again, this is. You know, we were talking about the West Wing. We are commenting on. Like, do these episodes have the same power when you know what's coming? When you know this character survives whatever it is? I still hold my breath when he's asking for her phone number, too. So it's like, again, those two scenes, they kind of. They can't exist without each other. They really are the two tent poles in terms of propping this thing up. And again, I agree with you. The moment has to be the call at the end. But there's so much I love about him begging her in a way that, you know, like, there is more than a little bit of Kevin and Nora in them. Like, the personality types are different, but, like, particularly this idea of belief as an act of love, right? Like, there are things that we accept and we are willing to accept even though they seem impossible. And we do it because we love the person that they're coming from. And so, yeah, like, your ex boyfriend shows up and asks you this thing that does not make any sense whatsoever and says he will not talk to you for the next eight years. And you still, like, clear your schedule on Christmas Eve 2004. Like, it's just what you do because of how tied you are to each other. And so foregrounding all of that in the conversation about the number in the first place, and specifically the idea that it is a phone number, like, the symmetry of I'm gonna reignite my relationship by asking for the thing that starts a relationship. It's just beautiful stuff.
- [37:37]
Joanna Robinson
You got those digits.
- [37:38]
Rob Mahoney
You did.
- [37:39]
Joanna Robinson
I also think.
- [37:42]
On this rewatch, the moment that I rewound several times to sort of take it in is the moment when Desmond is in the past walking away. She's closed the curtain on him. You hear the ringing in the present.
- [38:00]
And then he gets this little smile on his face because somehow through time, he knows that she answered. How does that work? Like, what kind of paradox does that create in the sort of Desmond, whatever happened, happened timeline? I don't know what to tell you, but. But that little smile, like, means a lot to me. It really. It's really good, let me tell you.
- [38:21]
Rob Mahoney
I don't care how it works. I just know that it does. And this is another thing that I think Lost really understands about this sort of storytelling is like. Like there's this scene, for example, in this episode where they're all locked in the infirmary, and then suddenly they're not locked in the infirmary. And it's like you do not let the detail get in the way of the good story. And frankly, like, the idea that the locked room isn't the important part, like the door being open is a better mystery than the locked door is a puzzle. And so you're able to kind of have it both ways if you just open the door and then, you know.
- [38:53]
Joanna Robinson
Why later for sure. Absolutely. But this is a sort of like.
- [38:57]
Rob Mahoney
That'S a tomorrow problem.
- [38:58]
Joanna Robinson
You've got a guardian angel on this ship or whatever. And so that all feeds into this, like, mythology of God is smiling on Desmond this day, you know, and then later you're like, actually, that's just Michael. But, you know, that's fine. What would the runner up episode be if it weren't this episode? So when we had the opportunity to do a Lost hall of Fame episode on this feed previously, Malorie and I chose through the Looking Glass, which is the season three finale with the aforementioned but very deeply connected because Charlie, not Penny's boat, all of that iconography comes from that episode. Also, we have to go back comes from that episode. Like, that is just. Just an absolute banger of a season finale sort of feeling. What I like about this episode is this is episode five. It's not a premiere and it's not a finale. It's episode five of a season. So I think that's interesting. But any runners up that you have.
- [39:50]
Rob Mahoney
In mind, I think this is one of the harder ones to peg just because there's so many different versions of what a great Lost episode is. And case in point, this one, which is structurally unlike almost any other episode. And yet it's wonderful for that reason.
- [40:05]
Like, I mean, preceding through the Looking class, like Greatest Hits is so good. And I see that as somebody who does not care about Charlie that much.
- [40:11]
Joanna Robinson
I know, I know.
- [40:12]
Rob Mahoney
And I'm still just like, I am captivated by what they're able to do within the scope of that episode in making you care about a character who had some frustrating storylines through the earlier seasons. So I would think about that one. And at the risk of pandering, like, Trisha Tanaka is dead is sitting right there. You know, it's just right there. It's funny, it's sad, it's ultimately quite ecstatic. Like, I'm here for everything that it's bringing to the table.
- [40:36]
Joanna Robinson
I'll take the pander. I'll take the pander of Trisha Tanaka has dead one all time Lost episode. Also.
- [40:43]
Given that you're a Juliette and Sawyer guy, Lafleur is also one of my coulda been lafleur episodes. That's another sort of love story told over time. This idea of.
- [40:58]
Characters who have, like, a spark, but then due to time travel shenanigans, all of a sudden we are, like, knee deep in a relationship that matters, and that it is convincing. And all of that is just very important.
- [41:11]
Rob Mahoney
It's so good.
- [41:14]
We really had it there for a moment, Joe, and it was just ripped from our fingers.
- [41:18]
Joanna Robinson
It was.
- [41:18]
Rob Mahoney
But as a Juliet guy, I also. I love not in Portland, which is, like, the property. Yes. The proper Juliet flashback episode.
- [41:28]
Joanna Robinson
Oh, you're right, sorry. The Other Woman.
- [41:30]
Rob Mahoney
Yes. This is, like, season three, I think. I wanna say it's the full backstory on how she gets to the island effectively.
- [41:37]
Joanna Robinson
Yeah, yeah.
- [41:37]
Rob Mahoney
And I think the most effective single episode backstory that any character gets, we get it parceled out in all sorts of ways throughout the show for all kinds of characters in effective ways. But this is the episode that made me, like, made Juliet one of my favorite characters on the show. And so, like, that's a. That's a powerful thing for one episode.
- [41:57]
Joanna Robinson
Anything else you want to say? I know people were really excited to hear your Lost take. So anything else you want to say about your journey through Lost that you had a couple months ago? We should say Rob was very ill when he did this, so he doesn't quite ill. He's usually too busy to binge an entire television show in a few weeks.
- [42:16]
Rob Mahoney
Some make a habit of it, but in this case, look, I'm glad that I did. And even given that I was that ill, I like. I really miss it. Like, I just miss the presence it kind of had in my life, even as I was, like, battling pneumonia, basically. Which I think speaks to how effective and singular it is. And, I mean, I miss the cast. I miss, obviously, the mystery of it, the presence of that kind of time and ride. And I find. I have found since that it's just like, an incredibly difficult void to fill. Like, this show creates such an emotional crater, and I think part of it is honestly the satisfaction of all of these interlocking parts across the story. The cast is so huge. They're bumping into each other past, present, and future. Also afterlife. Also flash, whatever direction you prefer. The ambition of a show like this is just beyond questioning. And so at a time where I'm constantly watching things and being like, was this filmed on the volume? Is this a cast of actually three people? And they're just trying to round it out, a huge ensemble with this kind of scale and this much to say, we never had it so good, frankly. And I look forward to the rewatch. I've only had a chance to actually revisit episodes like the Constant a handful of times, so my Lost journey is only beginning.
- [43:33]
Joanna Robinson
Joe, that's very exciting to hear. Something I like to think about, Rob, when I think about.
- [43:39]
Getting to podcast with you over the last couple years and before we started podcasting together on the speed, you weren't really.
- [43:48]
Like full time dedicated, like TV commenter, critic, anything like that. So no. How important something like Lost is as a skeleton key to understanding a lot of television that came after it and how, I mean, people say all the time when they're like, how can you do this? And you have. You guys haven't seen the Sopranos. I understand Sopranos is also a skeleton key like this, but we're gonna get there.
- [44:12]
Rob Mahoney
It's okay.
- [44:13]
Joanna Robinson
But Lost is like, it just echoes through all the television storytelling that follows it. And not just in. There were just a number of cheap ass knockoffs of Lost that just sprouted up and didn't last a season. That happened around the show. ABC was constantly like, what if we did this premise? What if we did this premise can recapture the magic, but you can't go.
- [44:39]
Rob Mahoney
Back damn shots at Flash forward or whatever.
- [44:42]
Joanna Robinson
You know, it's just literally thinking about Flash Forward, which I believe also starred Sonia Walters. So. Wow. Sorry, Penny. But but yeah, not just that, but you just find it cropping up everywhere. I think it absolutely deserves to be at the top of this list. Is there anything. Again, we. We respect our ringer colleagues and everything they decided to rank. Is there anything else you would have put at the top of this list, if not the constant? I'll just read. I'll read the top.
- [45:12]
Maybe the top 10. I'll do the top 10. Okay, so we have number one is the constant. I'm doing it in controversial reverse order. That is just what is easiest for me to do. Number two is the suitcase. Mad Men Number three, Reigns of Castamere, Game of Thrones number four. Who goes There? True Detective, Season one, Episode four. That's the one with the oner.
- [45:34]
That. That one, that one episode, the True Detective one, really feels like a holdover from 2018. Like, I don't think you would.
- [45:41]
Rob Mahoney
You don't think it deserves to be there?
- [45:43]
Joanna Robinson
No, I'm not saying that. I don't think it would have occurred to anyone to try to put it that high on the list if they were just making the list. From scratch in 2025. Like, it's a hard episode to boot, but I don't think it's an episode we talk about the way we talk about some of these other episodes.
- [45:58]
Rob Mahoney
I think that's fair.
- [46:00]
Joanna Robinson
Unlike number five, Pine Barrens, the Sopranos season three episode, which I know is an absolute iconic one.
- [46:06]
Rob Mahoney
If we've heard of it, you know that it's a big episode of Sopranos.
- [46:09]
Joanna Robinson
Number six, Ozymandias, a Breaking Bad one we would have done if we hadn't done it already on this feed. We already did all of fame for Ozymandias. Number seven is the Chappelle show episode, which I love that. That's here in the top 10. I think that's great. Number eight, Connor's wedding succession, which you had a strong objection to. It's not what I would have picked as the succession episode. But you didn't think Succession belonged in the top 10. Should I not call you out like that?
- [46:35]
Rob Mahoney
Oh, no, you can absolutely call me out on it. I, like, don't love succession. And so the idea of it as a top 10 pantheon show, even within the single episode parameters here, I just, like. I just don't see it as that kind of show.
- [46:47]
Joanna Robinson
Okay. Number nine is middle ground. An episode of the wire from season three.
- [46:53]
Believe it's the Omar episode, probably. And number 10 is an episode of Survivor, the final four from the first season season. So that's the top 10 Watchmen, just out of the top 10. The OC pilot, a severance episode, episode of Andor, et cetera, et cetera, Grey's Anatomy. So, like, and then we get to two cathedrals. West Wing, the one we decided to do. So is there anything that you would, like, vehemently want to boot off the list? Not. Not against, because this is a consensus vote. So this is like, you know, whatever. We're not taking shots at anyone who made this list. But like anything, you're like, I don't think this belong here or anything where you're like, where is this representation? Higher.
- [47:34]
Rob Mahoney
It's less the booting and more to me. Fleabag came in at number 60. And this is the season. The season two finale of Fleabag, again, just, like, had a bigger effect on me than the vast majority of episodes that came in the top 25. And so the idea that it would be at 60, I find a little challenging. But look, this is a broad vote. Everything's gonna happen for everyone a little differently. When I'm thinking about, like, what I want in those top spots, I want the like indelible mark shows, I want like the before and after. And like, I think Reigns of Casimir is another great example of like whatever you think about where Game of Thrones.
- [48:10]
Joanna Robinson
Goes, that was a moment.
- [48:12]
Rob Mahoney
Not just a. Not just a moment in culture, but like a moment that changes the way you watch anything, what you look for. Like, I mean, I just have the like the national version of Reigns of Castamere playing in my head non stop. Like, that's just a thing that's happening in the back of my brain all the time.
- [48:27]
Joanna Robinson
I think that.
- [48:30]
I think when you coins, like, like I was saying about the. The idea of the constant.
- [48:36]
Which has a great echo later in the series with the variable, but the idea of like, which I guess I think on Friends the concept of the lobster predates the constant, but it's the same thing. It's like your soulmate, essentially my constant.
- [48:48]
Rob Mahoney
Sure.
- [48:49]
Joanna Robinson
Don't shake your head at me.
- [48:51]
Rob Mahoney
I will. I will shake my head at Friends all day, every day. Joe.
- [48:54]
Joanna Robinson
Friends is nowhere near the top of this list. But. But I think that coining that and then like the Red Wedding, this is, this is this show's Red Wedding episode. Of course, like, you have to honor the. The original. I will say, just gotta be myself, please, and say two things. Number one.
- [49:15]
Bloody Harlan, season two, episode 13 of Justified. Number 26, way too low. Way too low for that episode of Justified. A perfect episode, capper of a perfect season of television. So.
- [49:26]
Rob Mahoney
Yes.
- [49:28]
Joanna Robinson
And then the Buffy episode is not the Buffy episode I would have picked personally.
- [49:33]
Rob Mahoney
Well, what is the one you would pick?
- [49:35]
Joanna Robinson
So they picked once more with feeling.
- [49:37]
Rob Mahoney
They did.
- [49:38]
Joanna Robinson
I mean, if I had to pick one of the like, consensus episodes.
- [49:43]
Rob Mahoney
You don't. Spoiler alert. You don't. I am talking to you, Joanna Robinson. I would have a better time spokesperson for the. For the consensus.
- [49:52]
Joanna Robinson
I would have a better time with the Body being here or with Hush being here than I. Than I would with once more with Feeling being here. My favorites are earlier in seasons two and three, but like in Hush and the Body and once more the Feeling are the top, like the three all timers that people talk about. And I just would have picked. Probably would have picked Hush actually just for like how conceptually audacious it was to do so.
- [50:18]
Rob Mahoney
I. I go around that. I mean, I was gonna say circle, but I guess triangle. Just like all day, every day, depending on the day of the week, my mood. I think right now I'm in more of the body space. And in particular it's like.
- [50:33]
The way that that particular Mack truck of story hits several different characters in it to the point that they don't even know what to do with themselves is just something I'll never forget. And it's like, yet there are a bunch of episodes of Buffy that are like that. But I think that's one where everything is brought to a halt by design, and yet it's still super watchable, which is an incredible thing to pull off.
- [50:54]
Joanna Robinson
Well, I think also plug your ears if you're Mallory Rubin or anyone else who has not seen this far into Buffy. But the way in which it takes a supernatural show and brings reality crushing into it is just, like, pretty unforgettable.
- [51:06]
Rob Mahoney
Can I ask you another Lindelof Verse question?
- [51:09]
Joanna Robinson
Please.
- [51:10]
Rob Mahoney
What would be your leftover submission? I was thinking about this as International Assassin, which we've covered in the hall of Fame. It's clearly a Hall of Fame episode. And yet, you know, like, there's a part of me that's like, do I want the finale?
- [51:24]
And Book of Nora is so good.
- [51:25]
Joanna Robinson
It's the finale.
- [51:27]
Rob Mahoney
It's real. It's really good.
- [51:28]
Joanna Robinson
Yeah. Anything else? Any other. Any other shows that are important to you that we've never talked about? That.
- [51:36]
Rob Mahoney
There's gotta be so many at this point. Like, we haven't and probably will never talk about Deadwood on this podcast for reasons that I don't quite understand.
- [51:43]
Joanna Robinson
I feel like we've talked around Deadwood in the past.
- [51:46]
Rob Mahoney
Yes. But, yeah, I mean, just one of the. One of the great works of television of all time. I think that that, like, snapshot again, it's a little bit of like, you were 13 when SNL was on, but, like, the six feet under, deadwood version of HBO is a lot of appeal for me.
- [52:03]
That is my sweet spot, for sure.
- [52:04]
Joanna Robinson
Number 46 on the list. Sold Under Sin. Deadwood Season 1, Episode 12. So it's on the list?
- [52:11]
Rob Mahoney
Low on the list.
- [52:12]
Joanna Robinson
Was on the list.
- [52:13]
Rob Mahoney
We're happy just to be nominated.
- [52:14]
Joanna Robinson
There you go. All right, well, this has been the Constant and some other stuff, and we really just wanted to talk about some great television and also highlight the great work of our colleagues over on the ringer.com, please do go visit that list. It's really well composed and well written, and we just really love the people that we work with and they did a great job and they love television, too. So, yes, I would also.
- [52:37]
Rob Mahoney
Joe, I would love to hear from anyone listening prestigetvpotify.com for your lost alternative episodes to the constant, if not the constant, What? Because I feel like this is such, like, a wide range of possibilities with the show in particular.
- [52:50]
Joanna Robinson
Abiterno is also really high up on my list.
- [52:53]
Rob Mahoney
Really good.
- [52:53]
Joanna Robinson
It's really, really good. Yeah. The Black Rocket gets a shout in this episode.
- [52:58]
Rob Mahoney
So, yeah, let me tell you, that season needed it. It needed that episode so badly. So I'm glad that it found its way in there.
- [53:05]
Joanna Robinson
So not across the sea for you? Not the Alison Janney episode. No.
- [53:11]
Rob Mahoney
You know, I have nothing bad to say about C.J. craig, nothing bad to say about Alice and Janney except the fact that I don't know why she's in that epis. I don't know why that episode exists. I don't know what's happening with any of that.
- [53:20]
Joanna Robinson
I think if I wanted to do maximum trolling, which sometimes you do want to do with lists like these, like, not be untrue to yourself, but also be provocative.
- [53:31]
Rob Mahoney
Yes.
- [53:31]
Joanna Robinson
The Lost finale.
- [53:34]
Rob Mahoney
I mean, we have to at least talk about it a little bit, don't we?
- [53:37]
Joanna Robinson
I love the Lost finale. Like, I absolutely love it. And in terms of, like, things that can easily make me cry, the first few nodes notes of the score at the end of the Lost finale, which is called Moving on by Michael Giacchino, demolishes me every time. That's an episode, to your point about, like, what they do with Charlie in Greatest Hits and Through the Looking Glass. Yeah, that's what they do with Jack for me in the finale.
- [54:00]
Rob Mahoney
They really do.
- [54:02]
Joanna Robinson
You know, all of that stuff just really works on me.
- [54:04]
Rob Mahoney
So Jack is not great. Much of the run up to that finale is not great. And get like. I mean, this is just the through line of all these Lindelof shows is like the emotional truth of what the show is. It always gets there in the end and it always, I mean, just decks me every single time. So I'm with you. I was. I was honestly a little shocked by the reputation of the finale and then experiencing it for the first time, granted. I mean, I do have you in my ear, too. So there's some counterbalancing light and dark in my life if I want to weigh the two stones. Of course not equally, but I think it's really effective and honestly all the more effective for the fact that the final season is just not there.
- [54:46]
Joanna Robinson
Christian shepherd, you will forever be my exception to the no ghost dad rule. You're it for me.
- [54:53]
Rob Mahoney
We all get one. We all get one ghost dad.
- [54:55]
Joanna Robinson
And it's Christian shepherd for me. All right, well, this has been the constant. This has been our toe dip back into loss Rob's, you know, great accomplishment of 2025, among other things, I'm sure. And thank you to Justin Sales for the sort of prod to do this. Thank you to all of our colleagues who put that tremendous list together and everyone who worked on the design of it. And all of it is just like incredible lift.
- [55:24]
Thank you to our constant Kai Grady for his work on this episode. Thank you to you, Rob Mahoney and thanks Jill. We'll see you soon. Bye.
- [55:45]
Rob Mahoney
Hey, Ryan Reynolds here wishing you a very happy half off holiday because right now Mint Mobile is offering you the gift of 50% off unlimited. To be clear, that's half price, not half the service purpose. Mint is still premium unlimited wireless for a great price. So that means half day. Give it a try at mintmobile.
- [56:07]
Joanna Robinson
Com switch upfront payment of $45 for three month plan equivalent to $15 per month required new customer offer for first three months only. Speed flow after 35 gigabytes of network busy taxes and fees extra. Cmintmobile.com.